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Microsoft Proposes Fix For E-Voting Attack

Trailrunner7 writes "Microsoft Research has proposed mitigation for a known potential attack against verifiable electronic voting machines that could help prevent insiders from being able to alter votes after the fact. The countermeasure to the 'trash attack' involves adding a cryptographic hash to the receipts that voters receive (PDF). Many verifiable voting systems already include hashes on the receipts, but that hash is typically made from the ballot data for each specific voter. The idea proposed by Microsoft Research involves using a running hash that would add a hash of the previous voter's receipt to each person's receipt, ideally preventing a privileged insider from using discarded receipts to alter votes. The trash attack that the mitigation is designed to address involves election workers or others who might be motivated to change votes gathering discarded receipts and then altering those votes."

111 comments

  1. Microsoft Research by SharkLaser · · Score: 4, Insightful

    They actually do a lot of great stuff there, which is not too surprising as they have many intelligent people working in Research. Just wish much more of their stuff would see daylight.

    Still, Microsoft is actually one of the only companies that spends billions in research and doesn't just buy start-up companies like Google does.

    1. Re:Microsoft Research by gcnaddict · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's one of the few companies producing scientific research for the sake of research these days. This is a function which used to be governed best by Bell Labs, but now it's MSR that seems to put out the most content out of all research institutions which happen to be wholly-owned subsidiaries of for-profit corporations.

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    2. Re:Microsoft Research by ackthpt · · Score: 3, Interesting

      They actually do a lot of great stuff there, which is not too surprising as they have many intelligent people working in Research. Just wish much more of their stuff would see daylight.

      Can't say there's much of a market outside of Microsoft for a chair which will bounce.

      --

      A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    3. Re:Microsoft Research by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, but this is not really novel, is it?
      Git uses the same method.

    4. Re:Microsoft Research by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      True, but this is hardly brilliant research. Creating a running hash table has been done countless times in countless commercial products.

    5. Re:Microsoft Research by Jawnn · · Score: 1

      Beat me to it - a comment about the profound irony here; that Microsoft should be the bringer of security to the "e-voting" platform. Man that's just... wrong.

    6. Re:Microsoft Research by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      Hmmm. the folks that brought us NTLM and salt-less password hashes?

      Unix was using salted passwords for a couple decades when M$ decided to use non-salted pwords. This is why the same password can be cracked in milliseconds when a M$ hash, and take days/months/years when hash comes form a Unix host.

      And NTLM-- crazy stuff, you can use the hash instead of the original password. The HASH is EQUIVALENT to the password?!!!

      M$ needs to get their heads out of their nether regions. Certainly shouldn't be trusted to come up with the tech for e-voting.

    7. Re:Microsoft Research by RightSaidFred99 · · Score: 0

      1993 called... you know the rest. NTLM.. seriously?

    8. Re:Microsoft Research by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...Still, Microsoft is actually one of the only companies that spends billions in research and doesn't just buy start-up companies like Google does.

      Yeah, it's just too bad that all that research rarely equates to a sound product in the end...you know, like Google does.

    9. Re:Microsoft Research by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fuck off.

    10. Re:Microsoft Research by Bungie · · Score: 2

      Hmm...UNIX...the same folks who origionally included the passwords in the passwd file which is readable by all users on the system. It doesn't mean that UNIX is shit. Like everything in the computer world they didn't plan for exploitation and had to learn a valuable lesson before the design was updated (ie. passwords are now stored in the separate 'shadow' file which is not readable by all users).

      NTLM was badly designed and was replaced by Kerebos encryption way back in Windows 2000. I think Microsoft might have learned a bit about securily hashing passwords in the almost two decades since NTLM was designed.

      --
      The clash of honour calls, to stand when others fall.
    11. Re:Microsoft Research by RobbieThe1st · · Score: 3, Insightful

      And yet windows XP - which is only 10 years old* and still has plenty of marketshare - still runs LM hashes by default, which are /case insensitive/ and in a max of 2 7-char chunks, making cracking trivial if you have access to the hashes.

      *the OS is 10 years old. The service packs aren't. They could have fixed the flaw at any point in the past easily enough.

    12. Re:Microsoft Research by citizenr · · Score: 1, Insightful

      It's one of the few companies producing scientific research for the sake of research these days.

      You misspelled Patents.

      --
      Who logs in to gdm? Not I, said the duck.
    13. Re:Microsoft Research by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      And I know a guy that still runs WinME, so do we blame MSFT if he gets hacked? Unlike certain OSes I can name MSFT lets you choose to upgrade are not, but that don't mean running old shit is always the smartest idea. Show me any other OS with THAT long a support cycle though, we are talking a good decade an OS in most cases. Windows 7 gets patches until 2020, WinXP 2014, Win2K ended in 2010. Frankly if you can't get your shit together enough to migrate in 5 years it sounds like a personal problem to me, but at least MSFT IS patching and providing fixes, even if it ain't the smartest OS to be running anymore. what are the anti-MSFT crowd gonna do though when winXP ends?

      MSFT has done some REALLY stupid things, kin, Zune, Vista...but I can't believe someone is here ragging them for actually providing support for older OSes. Would you prefer if they did it the Apple way and told you to piss off a year and a half after the new one comes out? That would have killed XP last year and Vista next, that wouldn't be very nice now would it?

      As for TFA I still haven't had anyone explain to me EXACTLY what is wrong with paper ballots. Are we out of recycled paper or something? Frankly the machines my state used last election (sorry I didn't notice the brand) had it right. It had a nice big easy to read touchscreen with a nice "Is this your choice?" final chance to change your mind for the old folks and with every "yes I'm sure" it would print the ballot in a nice little glass window so you could see it. when the voting was over a volunteer came by, copied the electronic vote to this little device (which i was told the electronic vote was being used for the early results the networks love) and the paper ballot was handed to you, which after you looked it over to triple check it was right, was THEN and ONLY THEN put in the ballot box. Since it was printed electronically it was easy for the scanners to tabulate at the end of polling, and everything nice and neat and no hanging chad crap.

      I really have to give them credit, they had the whole place running like a well oiled machine. Used to it was like a trip to the DMV, but now its fast and painless. the part that impressed me most was there were ZERO disenfranchised voters, none. if someone showed up and they didn't show up on the roll or went to the wrong place? They simply had them pull over for a minute while they called the place they had voted last and had it all straightened out and they were back in line. I saw two while I was there and they had less than 4 minutes added to a less than 10 minute wait, really top notch work. Hell they even had coffee and donuts.

      Now if they could only give us someone worth actually voting for it'd be perfect. for the past 3 elections I just vote straight green party even though i know beyond the local level they have no chance, simply because I can't stomach actually voting for either of the corporate shills. 2012 looks to be even worse than 2008, with the reps basically handing it to Obama because they can't find a single candidate that isn't a complete sellout or a whackjob. Well it lets them see what the Dems must have felt like when they ended up with the ketchup guy I guess, but it sure don't help the country none.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    14. Re:Microsoft Research by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hmm...UNIX...the same folks who origionally included the passwords in the passwd file which is readable by all users on the system.

      The idea was that security by obscurity is bad design, and the encryption/hash instead needs to be strong enough that you won't be able to crack the passwords.

      Of course this was back when Unix was used by computer scientists, and random passwords were the norm (at least in theory). Nowadays, the most effective attack is the dictionary attack, against which even the strongest hash is defenseless, and obscurity is our only real defense.

    15. Re:Microsoft Research by imric · · Score: 1

      Good application for it here though!

      --
      Paranoia is a Survival Trait!
    16. Re:Microsoft Research by PoopCat · · Score: 1

      I'd love to live in your world, where success is only measured by the failure of others. Seriously, what does saying "and doesn't just buy start-up companies like Google does" add to your point?

    17. Re:Microsoft Research by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      *You* fuck off, cockbladder.

  2. lol by masternerdguy · · Score: 0, Troll

    I don't trust my vote to a microsoft product.

    --
    To offset political mods, replace Flamebait with Insightful.
    1. Re:lol by MightyMartian · · Score: 1

      My problem is that I don't really trust my vote to any product. I know that ballots can become obscenely complicated, but paper ballots, in general, are more secure. A system that actually produces a printed receipt, regardless of who manufactures it or produces the software, would seem the appropriate intermediary.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    2. Re:lol by Penguinisto · · Score: 1

      (insert Bill Gates being inexplicably elected President here)

      Personally, it has bupkis to do with "votes" these days anyway. You vote for who you're told to; the only real difference is the "D" or "R" on the TV or newspaper tagline next to their names.

      Now if you want *real* power to pick who gets elected to a federal office, then go build a huge corporation or a national-sized bank.

      (The sad part is, I'm not really trolling...)

      --
      Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
    3. Re:lol by tripleevenfall · · Score: 1

      Trouble is, through the choices of others, virtually all information about your life is already living in and being manipulated by microsoft products.

    4. Re:lol by tripleevenfall · · Score: 1

      To me, this is like saying you will only pay for things using paper checks because buying things from websites is insecure. Paper ballots can be lost, stolen, destroyed, or boxes stuffed. Entire boxes are lost sometimes. Polling places run out of ballots in some elections. The fact that specific platforms and software interactions can produce points of vulnerability does not mean paper is more secure. Even when paper is used, counting is arduous and waste is tremendous, to say nothing of the fact that there are tens of millions of goobers in this country who can't even figure out how to fill out a paper ballot.

      Collecting the vote accurately is the first concern, so an electronic touch screen make the most sense at that point.

      From there, common sense would make the level of difficulty high enough to ward off most attempts to influence the election. Certainly the voting machines with freaking USB ports on the side or any number of obvious flaws need to be weeded out. But I see no reason why electronic voting can't be made secure.

      We trust all the world's financial transactions to electronic means, and nobody is saying stock needs to be traded on paper again. We just need to demand the stupidity be taken out of voting machines.

    5. Re:lol by tripleevenfall · · Score: 1

      (insert Bill Gates being inexplicably elected President here)

      Personally, it has bupkis to do with "votes" these days anyway. You vote for who you're told to; the only real difference is the "D" or "R" on the TV or newspaper tagline next to their names.

      Now if you want *real* power to pick who gets elected to a federal office, then go build a huge corporation or a national-sized bank.

      (The sad part is, I'm not really trolling...)

      Actually, there are about 85% who vote for one side and would never ever vote for the other, and of the remaining 15%, about 14%of them vote based on who's better looking, or who they'd rather have come to their barbecue, not who'd be better at running the country.

    6. Re:lol by MightyMartian · · Score: 1

      Some countries, like Canada, have been running paper ballots for decades without any of the substantial problems you invoke. Frankly, I think the fans of electronic voting do everything they can to make paper ballots seem insecure and inaccurate, even as more and more evidence comes to light of how shaky their own systems are.

      Huge parts of the world run on paper ballots, and have, for the most part, well-run elections. Let's not overstate the problems here.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    7. Re:lol by F.Ultra · · Score: 1

      Your state problems with paper ballots is only valid for situations where there is no monitoring. And that should come as no surprise since paper ballots by itself is not secure. I.e here in Sweden anyone who likes are allowed to take part of the whole process, i.e you can stay in the voting area and supervise that no mischief is going on, you are allowed to follow the box as it is sealed and stored, and you are allowed to stay and watch the counting take place. And this right is used, especially by the political parties who have members sent to all voting facilities, i.e each vote is counted by members of different parties so the risk of fraud is very very slim. It still happens that some votes gets lots or people are trying to commit fraud, but to date all attempts have been spotted and reported and in no way could the problem ballots account for any impact of the end result.

      Compare this with an all electronic system where no one, and as a programmer and systems architect I mean no one, has any ability what so ever to conduct supervision of the calculation of the votes.

      And why is it a problem that the counting may take a few hours when the new elected party/president etc doesn't come to office until a few months later anyways and stays in office for 4 years. A few hours in that context is insignificant.

    8. Re:lol by compro01 · · Score: 1

      to say nothing of the fact that there are tens of millions of goobers in this country who can't even figure out how to fill out a paper ballot.

      Small wonder when the ballots seem to be designed with malicious intent towards that end.

      If you actually hear of people having difficulty figuring out a Canadian style ballot (Hell, my legally blind grandmother voted fine last election), let me know.

      --
      upon the advice of my lawyer, i have no sig at this time
  3. Why not... by ackthpt · · Score: 0

    Have the stupid voting machine keep track of the original vote, and each subsequent change. I think that would sort out who is cooking the vote as well as preserve integrity.

    --

    A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    1. Re:Why not... by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      That and perma dyeing voters fingers third world style.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    2. Re:Why not... by tripleevenfall · · Score: 1

      Nope, nope, we can't require finger-identification, there are some people who don't have fingers.

    3. Re:Why not... by Bucky24 · · Score: 1

      I always wondered... How on earth did people like that vote in the first place? I suppose they'd have to get someone to assist them, and you could always perma dye the finger of THAT person.

      --
      All the world's a CPU, and all the men and women merely AI agents
    4. Re:Why not... by jrumney · · Score: 1

      I suppose they'd have to get someone to assist them, and you could always perma dye the finger of THAT person.

      Why should someone who assists a disabled person in exercising their democratic right to vote lose that right themselves?

    5. Re:Why not... by Bucky24 · · Score: 1

      I wasn't thinking that. I'm thinking it would be a different color dye or something so that it would be clear that they assisted someone rather than voting themselves.

      --
      All the world's a CPU, and all the men and women merely AI agents
    6. Re:Why not... by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      Only allowed to assist one person?

      You would have to pick a spot to mark the hand less voters. Perhaps an earlobe, it doesn't really matter just so it's something. Plus a third spot for the hand and ear less.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
  4. So Kind of Like Git by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... and that sounds pretty good to me.

  5. I'm a strong proponent of a paper trail by GoodNewsJimDotCom · · Score: 1

    Provide a paper trail that each voter verifies. You can then count by hand to loosely verify the vote in case of fraud.

    I even voted "Protest E-vote" in the 2008 election

    1. Re:I'm a strong proponent of a paper trail by rally2xs · · Score: 1

      What happens locally: We mark paper ballots with a sharpie-like ink pen, coloring in the little bubble. The counting machine devours the ballot, storing it inside and tabulating the vote. Any question about the count, just run all the ballots thru again... simple...

    2. Re:I'm a strong proponent of a paper trail by ackthpt · · Score: 1

      Provide a paper trail that each voter verifies. You can then count by hand to loosely verify the vote in case of fraud.

      I even voted "Protest E-vote" in the 2008 election

      Two fold problem with cooking votes - preserve the original vote AND catch who is attempting to change it.

      Some solutions don't require software, just good practices, like a written record and independent verification. My signature beside ballot number/receipt is a pretty good plan. Have the people who hand ou the receipts separate from the people who can touch the machines is another good plan. Put them together and you've got a stronger system.

      --

      A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    3. Re:I'm a strong proponent of a paper trail by NatasRevol · · Score: 1

      Except that independent verification can almost always be bought.

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
  6. vote.exe has caused a system error by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    Now what do you then the voteing systems goes down and a reboot does not fix it?

    1. Re:vote.exe has caused a system error by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      reinstall

    2. Re:vote.exe has caused a system error by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      reload the .wim , what else ?

    3. Re:vote.exe has caused a system error by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

      A base image is just part of the voteing system each poling place has it's own elections that are not the same at each poling place. And the software should be in a read only rom or flash rom that can't be changed in the field so it's hard for a voter to come in a rig the box.

  7. This is kind of an 'endless logfile' by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    which is described nicely with a diagram here:

    http://publictimestamp.org/?pass=info&pass2=timestampingdetailed

    Simply scroll down to No. 4. Endless Logfile

  8. Can't track the corruption; so who cares? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How important is it to have free and fair elections when both candidates are in the pockets of huge corporations and are going to work against the interests of the people anyway?

    Instead of voting for representatives, we should be voting directly on the issues.

    1. Re:Can't track the corruption; so who cares? by NatasRevol · · Score: 1

      I'm sure changing America from a republic to a community democracy will go smoothly.

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
    2. Re:Can't track the corruption; so who cares? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Try the world, and yep, shouldn't be a problem, as long as we are patient and grass-roots focused. Nobody is proposing replacing the US Senate tomorrow.

      But over time, as communities learn how to govern themselves without relying on individual rulers, they will gradually get more and more impatient with the nobility/politicians abusing the hell out of their power.

      What's you plan? Just keep bending over and taking it the way the politicians love to give it?

  9. How about this solution? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    1. Voting occurs
    2. Voter receives receipt containing:
    -Hash of voting record
    -Verification PIN
    Then, the voter can log onto a website and enter both pieces of information to retrieve their voting result for verification after the election.

  10. ... and it just happens to be patented by MS ... ? by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 1

    Wow, that would be a cash cow! Getting a IP royalty payment for each and every vote cast, in every election!

    --
    Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
  11. One down, 99,999 more to go by WinkingChicken · · Score: 1

    Great, one hole in the sieve that is e-voting plugged. Just a few thousand more to go. When are the hashes ever verified, and what can be done once one or more ballots fail verification? How might a voter validate (via hash on receipt) that the ballot was tabulated as hashed? This is just one of a myriad of possible attack vectors. What about the others, particularly the wholesale methods of rigging like simply altering the contents of the Access database that stores the votes between when voting concludes and when votes are tabulated? That appears to have happened in Ohio in 2004, where several people were convicted of the offense.

  12. lets you buy/sell votes by Chirs · · Score: 5, Informative

    Any system that shows how you voted after the fact opens up the possibility of purchasing votes.

    1. Re:lets you buy/sell votes by trolman · · Score: 1

      I am glad that this was modded up. There would be no need for paper logs, illegal receipts, or even electronic logs if each county would just let voters use paper. The ballot gets scanned and counted then goes in the hopper. Keep all the paper for recounts and you are all set. How hard can it be? These are votes and each one is critical. It is worth the paper.

  13. Is it Linux? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well? is it???

  14. 1% by revscat · · Score: 1

    Won't happen.

    There have been many similar proposals made over the years. None of them are implemented, because those who maintain power are apparently happy with the way things are. American democracy is a sham, highly susceptible to fraud, and anyone who makes such observations is dismissed by "serious" journalists and citizens.

    I'm very glad MS made this proposal. Kudos to them. What would move me from mild approval to full-fledged fanboyism were they to take this idea and have it implemented universally.

    1. Re:1% by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      American democracy is a sham

      It sure is. It's really a constitutional republic.

      To call the American system "a democracy" is sort of like saying "hey look at the helicopter" every time you see a car on the road.

    2. Re:1% by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, it's more like if I said "hey, look at that Chevy Cobalt that crashed into the bridge abutment over there!" and you started pedantically whining that the thing was really a Pontiac G5.

  15. Notary? by vlm · · Score: 1

    The idea proposed by Microsoft Research involves using a running hash that would add a hash of the previous voter's receipt to each person's receipt, ideally preventing a privileged insider from using discarded receipts to alter votes.

    Isn't this the ancient notary system? take the previous hash, hash in the new document or a hash of the doc or just its sig or whatever, pub key sign the new hash, publish the new hash (maybe in a classified ad in an old fashioned news paper or something?), repeat...

    Also it only works if the voters care, which is pretty unlikely, and it only matters if there is any difference between the two parties, also pretty unlikely. Democracy has failed here. Maybe it would work in a difference country?

    --
    "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
  16. That has already been covered and done better... by Olmy's+Jart · · Score: 3, Informative

    This is an old issue and people have done it better for a long time. The vendors (MS included) CHOSE to use half hearted, stupid, and short sighted solution. I saw proposal papers over a decade ago at the ISOC (Internet Society) NDSS conference:

    Practical Approach to Anonymity in Large Scale Electronic Voting Schemes
            Andrea Rierra and Joan Boerrell
    http://www.isoc.org/isoc/conferences/ndss/99/proceedings/papers/riera.pdf

    Start there and get serious.

  17. With Democracy at stake... by joocemann · · Score: 1

    ... there is absolutely no reason to not count manually, in the presence of observers, and then pool manual counts, in the presence of observers.

    1. Re:With Democracy at stake... by Mia'cova · · Score: 1

      Speed, accuracy, and trustworthiness aren't reasons?

    2. Re:With Democracy at stake... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You were going well with the 'speed' and 'accuracy' part, but unfortunately you lost me with the 'trustworthiness' bit. When it comes to voting I trust pencil and paper far more than any 'machine', electrical or mechanical, precisely because I'm NOT a luddite.

    3. Re:With Democracy at stake... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How does one trust a manual system?

      Anyone can be a part of the oversight group. This group first checks that the ballot bins are empty - that they contain no pre-fabricated votes, and no dwarf with an eraser. Then locks are put on the ballot bins, which are put in clear sight, so nobody can replace them without being noticed. Each voter is checked and marked on a list, so that he can only vote once. When everybody has voted, the vote bins are never left without watch, until they are counted, which is done with at least two independent people checking the same vote.

      How does one trust a digital system?

      Only people with a CS degree has any chance of inspecting the system, and then, often only the ones approved by those who are most likely to cheat (the government that runs the system), is allowed to. They can check that the database is empty, but in a digital system, the dwarf with the eraser is called software. Such a system always contains software, software that was written by people paid by those most likely to cheat (the government that runs the system). Even if someone inspecting the system has the source code, he won't know if the actual binary is an exact representation of the source code, or things have been changed around. Finding hidden stuff in raw assembler is a futile project. Then after the election, another system is used to count the total votes, and this system is even harder to get permission to inspect.

      In short: It's all black boxes, they are all paid for by those who have the most incentive to cheat. How can there ever be trust in such a system?

      Until you can present an algorithm, that even my mother can understand (she often has trouble even using a browser, but she is a voter), which guarantees that the people who implement said algorithm cannot cheat, even by not using your algorithm at all, while - at the same time - not requiring votes to become public knowledge to verify the system, there can be no trust in such a system. Letting each voter check their own vote does not prove anything. What you really want to prove is that the TOTALS are correct. It's easy to make a system that can verify each single vote correctly, but still outputs the wrong totals.

    4. Re:With Democracy at stake... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      joocemann the title of your post, "With Democracy at stake"

      suggests that the united states is a "democracy", and not a constitutional republic.

      Furthermore your wording, "... there is absolutely no reason to not count manually, in the presence of observers, and then pool manual counts, in the presence of observers."

        has loopholes

      1. Anyone wanting to use electronic machines can also "count manually" -- for example a scanner is fed a ballot manually one at a time. I can also send the results of the election across a modem.

      2. "In the presence of observers", is not the same as public oversight with an unbroken chain of custody. Are these observers police? Are they Officials? Are the officials or police preventing public oversight.

      3. "pool manual counts, in the presence of observers" same problem as #1 and #2

      So, please make a note, we live in a Constitutional Republic, our elections need to be Transparent, with public oversight and an unbroken chain of custody throughout the entire election. I'm sick of hearing people screaming "Democracy, Democracy" in my City Hall. Do they actually understand what democracy is, do they actually understand if you remove the Constitution how quick things will degrade?

      Today our Constitutional Republic has it's Constitution nullified by the Patriot Act, DHS, and Continuity of government. This has allowed corruption at the highest levels.

      The elections are rigged by the use of electronic vote tabulation devices (which no human can see to provide public oversight of the signals representing ballots), with an electoral college, and supreme court to mop up the mess that happens every time this broken election system goes live.

      All these electronic vote tabulation devices must be outlawed in every state, territory, district, city, wherever they exist . While local states get to do their elections their own way, this "way", must NOT include electronic vote tabulation devices.

      But the problems don't stop there.
      The electoral college needs to be tossed out. (Why are incumbents and ex officials voting for themselves!? This is an outrage, it over rides the actual votes cast. It supports only the two party system, it must go.

      But the problems don't stop there.
      Corporate owned media exploiting every measure, issue, bond, act, candidate or idea while hiding the nasty details and censoring outright that which isn't in it's interest, all while operating on public spectrum in opposition to public interest (which then points to the FCC, a presidential appointee, which then has political ties.)

      But the problems don't stop there.
      Even if all this stuff could be fixed (it won't by 2012) the next problem is cracking this Democrat vs Republican paradigm, when in fact each political party 's candidate(s) are affiliated with the same scumbags. AIPAC, PNAC, CFR, UNEP, IMF, Trilateral Commission, Bilderbergs, Rothchilds, and on and on.

      The answer to this is multi-part, and depends that each of the other parts is repaired above.

      1. Take the FCC 's power away and give it to the voter (since the FCC have gone FUBAR on their original mission statement and no longer use their engineers in the public interest) So let the public vote in their own interest and make the FCC's engineers follow the public interest again. Restoring the FCC's original mission statement.

      2. All these townhall meetings and campaigns vs MISSING information on the actual ballot, voter's guide, etc. The information which is missing is WHO these candidates affiliate with. If I know the candidate is a PNAC member who goes to Bilderberg meetings and took donations from Goldman Sachs, then I am pretty sure I don't need to waste my time to hear another choreographed townhall meeting. Also the LOGAN ACT needs to be given teeth, so these punk candidates and officials are not even allowed to affiliate in the first place.

      This whole thing is a twisted mess. And the sad thing is probably only a few people will ever read this post.

    5. Re:With Democracy at stake... by joocemann · · Score: 1

      Lol. Apparently you don't know about the voting fraud of years past.

      Read:
      http://freepress.org/departments/display/19/2011/4239

      We didn't have accountability problems like this until electronic voting. I could spoonfeed you more, but I think its clear you need to do some research on your own.

  18. Hmm.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sounds like Voting Bloc Chaining

  19. There should be a "recount" just to be sure. by Ries · · Score: 1

    The machine should output the vote on paper. The voter puts it into the election box. After the election, they should be counted in a timely manner and matches to the digital result, just to be sure.

  20. Foolishness by Capt.DrumkenBum · · Score: 1

    e-voting is a really bad idea. You Americans need to look north to see how an election should be run.

    --
    If I were God, wouldn't I protect my churches from acts of me?
  21. An even better fix you don't need researchers for: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    PAPER BALLOTS!

  22. This doesn't work by Zed+Pobre · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I worked on an electronic voting system a few years back. What I did got accepted for use in a local academic department, and I even gave a WIP on it at a LISA conference once, and then I ran into the constraints of the real world when I tried to build it into something useful for a wider audience. They include the following:

    1) You must not provide to a voter any form of receipt that can be used to determine how that voter voted. This is to prevent voter intimidation that has apparently turned into a major issue in places that did not abide by this constraint. If a hash can be used to verify that a vote was correct, it can be used to verify that a vote was what was required. I attempted to get around this by pre-seeding the vote results with a good number of copies of every possible result (which would cancel each other out), so you could take with you a vote receipt matching what you were required to do, but I couldn't come up with a way to make this idea scale, especially when any form of ranked voting was used.

    Microsoft could get around this by giving only the hash, and not the vote record, with the receipt, but then you have no way to prove that your vote was recorded the way you input it -- the system could just as well record something else, and give you the hash matching that something else.

    2) Even if you don't care about voter intimidation, and you give out receipts, not enough voters care enough to check that their votes were counted or registered correctly for crowdsourced verification to be all that useful. I remember an election irregularity report on one of the very few properly-done electronic voting systems -- backed by a printout under glass that could go either to the permanent record or the wastebin, and the UI directed the voter to carefully compare what was on the screen with the printout before accepting the vote. There was a malfunction at a station where the printer was completely nonfunctional. It wasn't even reported until an absurd amount of time after the poll opened (I can't remember the details, but many hours, and who knows how many voters). The Microsoft technique of using a running hash to prevent insertions, deletions, or alterations to a vote that is known will never be verified is nifty, but the odds are good that none of the votes in the last few hours of the day will ever be verified just because the verification count is so low, so you simply pick a spot and alter thereafter.

    3) Even if a voter triggered an irregularity report by noting that the hash didn't match, there is no political will to invalidate an election. Almost no elections go by without irregularities. Some elections go through with absurd irregularities, things that obviously had the potential to change the result, or even things that definitely would have changed the result, and the result is let stand.

    Discovery of the above three points made me give up on electronic voting as a solvable problem. The counted ballot has to be on a media not easily tamperable, and it must be independently verifiable by the interested parties, which, taken from a purely historical standpoint, do not appear to include the voters. Microsoft's bright idea (and I will give credit, it's not a bad thought when your only context is "how do I let a small sample detect tampering"), actually exacerbates problem #3 very badly by leading into #4:

    4) Elections are expensive. You cannot build a system that lends itself to repeated invalidation. If you could ignore #1 through #3, a straight hash would still be of value, because you would only invalidate if enough people brought back signed hashes that did not match the published counted values, and a few forged receipts would not throw out all of the real resuls. Unfortunately, using a running hash over the course of the entire voting period means that the ability to tamper with a vote early in the day means you can invalidate *every vote that follows*, even if your technique was something that would only normally work on a single vote. This me

    1. Re:This doesn't work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      With all the forth coming technology for reading brainwaves, your concerns about voter intimidation become moot.

    2. Re:This doesn't work by Mia'cova · · Score: 1

      The "do people check to see if their votes were counted" problem could easily be solved by having random people collect some hashes at the end of the day from people on their way out. Add a barcode to the receipt and it would only take a second to scan. I'm sure there are lots of people who would be interested in helping to verify the validity of an election.

    3. Re:This doesn't work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You forgot
      5) A few 10s of voters (e.g. after intimidation) claim their vote has been incorrectly recorded. Then what? Vote again until nobody complains? Or do you have a secret system to check such claims? Then voter intimidation is completely possible.

  23. Cards by markdavis · · Score: 1

    There is a much better fix to this problem. It is called getting rid of electronic voting machines and going back to the cardboard punch cards. They were cheap, fast, easy to use, worked fine, 100% auditable, and are tamper-proof. Plus, they were guaranteed to be anonymous, which is NOT the case with the machines installed a few years ago in my state.

    Some things are just NOT better with so-called "advanced" automation. They were trying to solve a problem that didn't exist by spending TONS of taxpayer money and created a monster, instead.

    1. Re:Cards by rangerfan558 · · Score: 1

      "They were cheap, fast, easy to use, worked fine," Dare I say...Hanging Chads?

    2. Re:Cards by markdavis · · Score: 1

      I think that was just a blown-up nothing story just from Florida. We had used that system in my state for many, many, many years without any such stories or issues,

      But good dare :)

    3. Re:Cards by rangerfan558 · · Score: 1

      Blown up nothing story???? Some would say that that was one of the places the election got "had" for Bush over Gore.

    4. Re:Cards by Electricity+Likes+Me · · Score: 1

      Punch cards are pretty much as bad as e-Voting. At the end of the day the vote counting is done by a machine, not by hand - so all you need to do is compromise the machine.

      The Australian electoral system is 100% hand-counted, with machine verification. The problem with any automated system is that it magnifies the effect of any one bad actor.

    5. Re:Cards by markdavis · · Score: 1

      The public has no access to "hack" the machine that is used... they simply insert their card. It is much, much MUCH better and safer than electronic voting machines. NO system is completely uncorruptable. But on a grade scale I would give "E-voting" machines an F and punch cards a B.

    6. Re:Cards by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The public is not the biggest concern. Even a well prepared attacker is only likely to successfully tamper with a few voting machines (assuming that nobody was stupid enough to put these machines on the internet), and the best they could get out of it is getting their own preferred "least evil" politician elected.

      The risk comes from those who have the means to tamper with every machine, and the biggest win from doing so: The current government (doesn't matter which country you are in, same rules apply). They have the means: They pay for the machines, and they get to write the requirements. And I can guarantee you they already know some shady people who are willing to work in a few bugs that miscounts the votes. And they have the incentive: Another four years in power. There are only two things these people care about: Money and power.

  24. Bitcoin by sexconker · · Score: 2

    Hash chain.
    Just like Bitcoin.

    1. Re:Bitcoin by Bucky24 · · Score: 2

      And for each vote counted the time it takes to generate the next vote increases....

      --
      All the world's a CPU, and all the men and women merely AI agents
  25. CBC anyone? by someSnarkyBastard · · Score: 2

    Granted, in standard /. poster style, I didn't bother reading the FA but this sounds like cipher-block chaining which has been part of modern crypto systems since forever; why has it taken until 2011 for someone to apply it to e-voting?

  26. fail: what would you do about it? by poppopret · · Score: 1

    So you detect an irregularity. What are you going to do about it? Realistically, nothing. Even if you did redo the election, that itself is an attack. It gives time to campaign some more, time for people to learn about or forget a scandal, etc.

    1. Re:fail: what would you do about it? by Electricity+Likes+Me · · Score: 1

      Except for the issue that in that time it's highly probable whoever did it is outed, and their fiscal connections identified?

  27. No system is going to be guaranteed by Shivetya · · Score: 1

    until you take people out of the equation.

    I don't care what system you choose, I can have all the receipts I want in any form I want, when I get home I have no more proof my vote even mattered as I have no guarantee that another vote or votes were not fraudulent.

    So not only present a receipt that cannot be used to intimidate (why I really dislike all attempts to make union acceptance votes open in the US - card check) while assuring those who are voting that their vote doesn't get wasted by fraudulent votes entering the system.

    So, perhaps your vote plus all others accounted for in a form decipherable by a computer?

    Still politicians are doing their best to keep us from even asking people to have valid IDs to vote with. How can you get a real system where those asking for one are intimidated by being called out as racists/bigots and the like simply by asking for one person one vote verification and how do you do that without ID? ( and I don't mean to be mean, but other than a picture ID how do you help people who are not all that bright?)

    --
    * Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
    1. Re:No system is going to be guaranteed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ID checks amount to a poll tax: people who don't drive likely have no other reason to have a photo ID; now you want to make them pay the $30 or whatever to get one in order to be allowed to vote.

    2. Re:No system is going to be guaranteed by ryanov · · Score: 1

      You're mistaken about "card check" legislation. It does not require elections to be open, it allows unions to be formed by merely signing up the required number of people. Unions are also free to hold secret ballot elections (which are just harder to do, generally because of intimidation by the boss).

  28. I propose a fix as well by houghi · · Score: 1

    It is called pen and paper.

    --
    Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
  29. but that may wipe out the votes and you can't have by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    but that may wipe out the votes and you can't have that and after reinstall then you have to load the elections for that poling place.

  30. I'm a strong critic of paper trail by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Of course, paper trail is among the best ways to have an e-voting system. However, the best way to have a voting system does not involve a computer receiving the votes.

    There are many ways to abuse a paper trail system - But instead of rehashing it here, I'll rather point you to my friend Federico Heinz's text: Urnas electrónicas: con imprimir el voto no alcanza (Spanish original) or automated translation: Electronic booths: Printing the vote is not enough.

  31. Give Up and Go Back to Ballot Boxes by jaa101 · · Score: 1

    I propose that, for the people to trust their democracy, they must be able to understand all aspects of the voting system. This rules out pretty well all automated systems, especially computers with cryptography and hashes. Just go back to people writing on paper and ballot boxes.

    Sure counting the ballots by hand is expensive but it's tiny compared to the cost of travel and time for the voters. The risk of serious, undetected fixing of results can't be eliminated with automated systems.

  32. What about the fucking silicone MS? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    what the fuck

  33. Bill Gates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    is going to run for the Presidency, I tell ya.

  34. Because we all know by cvtan · · Score: 1

    Once Microsoft fixes a security problem, it stays fixed and no further problems can arise.

    --
    Sorry, but gray text on gray background is making my eyes bleed.
  35. E-voting is a terrible idea by dskoll · · Score: 1

    In the entire history of computing, there has never been a computer system that has resisted a resourceful and well-financed attacker. Heck, 99.9% of computer systems fall to modestly-funded hobbyists.

    Considering that it costs over $1billion to elect a president of the United States, I can see someone spending $300 million to crack an e-voting system and considering it a bargain.

    Here in Canada, we use paper ballots. There has never to my knowledge been a federal election with any serious allegation of fraud or any doubt about the outcome (unlike the US in 2000.)

    Paper ballots scale quite nicely; Canada's population is only about 35 million, but even Germany with a population of 80 million gets by with paper ballots. So why not the US?

  36. Sounds suspiciously similar... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wow! They just invented GIT!

  37. Really bad idea..... by InspectorGadget1964 · · Score: 2

    It is enough to have Bill Gates running Micro$oft. We don't want him running a country as well.....

  38. More headlines... by Trax3001BBS · · Score: 1

    I had to smile reading the headline.

    Comp.Risk has been Paul Revering computer election fraud warnings
    for over a decade, nobody seems to care.

    It's been proved many times that elections can be swung one
    way or the other. Computer voting has made it so very easy.
    Yet all we get is more headlines.

    Was talking about voter fraud with a friend, and how Obama didn't stand a chance
    when he took office as it was all coming down and he was in the way.

    He mentioned "while trying not to sound of conspiracy", it's entirely
    possible that the Republicans didn't want the office this term for
    just that reason.

    I had a wow/epiphany moment.
    ----

    Please, I don't post politics and don't wish a political challenge for this.
    It was just a conversation I'm relating be it right or wrong.

  39. re: Microsoft original Research by microphage · · Score: 1

    "Microsoft is actually one of the only companies that spends billions in research and doesn't just buy start-up companies like Google does" SharkLaser

    So that's how Microsoft Research developed Android before Google stole it from Microsoft and tried to fob it off on the public as original results, shame on you Google ...

  40. Re: Microsoft original Research by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I think you're trying to argue against SharkLaser but your example actually agrees with him (Google bought Android Inc.).

  41. Where have I heard that before ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ah I remember now a hash built upon a previous hash yeah they got it from Bit Coin, is it going to take an hour to confirm each vote....

  42. Paper Ballots only possible clean voting answer. by leftie · · Score: 1

    Paper Ballots is the only voting system that could be made uncorruptible.

  43. Based on record by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Based on records alone there is no way Microsoft can make a secure platform that can not be cracked and that is one for sure that I do not want to find out is cracked again.

  44. EU by ThatsNotPudding · · Score: 1

    I once asked a vendor visiting from Norway (he grew up in England and emigrated many years ago), what type of voting machines they use. He replied with a quizzical look: "Paper".

    Everyone advocating any sort of e-voting or use of electronic machines have agendas - none of which are related to free and fair elections.

  45. Next Idea. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This does nothing to prevent "man in the middle" hardware from being attached to the voting machines
    to change votes as they are being cast.

  46. Solution not novel by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hash chaining E2E ballot receipts in this particular way has been in the literature since at least 2009. See section IV of:

    http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/freeabs_all.jsp?arnumber=5282555

  47. Paper by trolman · · Score: 1

    Microsoft needs to stay out of the electoral process. We need to use Paper ballots, scanned by linux (open) based machines. This electronic only stuff will end badly.