Precise W Boson Mass Measurement Helps Lead the Way To the Higgs Boson

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Precise W Boson Mass Measurement Helps Lead the Way To the Higgs Boson

Posted by Soulskill on Monday March 5, 2012 @08:48AM from the over-the-river-and-through-the-woods dept.

New submitter SchrodingerZ writes "'The world's most precise measurement of the mass of the W Boson, one of nature's elementary particles, has been achieved by scientists from the CDF and DZero collaborations at the Department of Energy's Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory.' This new number (80387 +- 17 MeV/c^2) puts more constraint on the mass of the theorized Higgs Boson, which is theorized to give mass to all other things, supporting the standard model. 'Scientists employ two techniques to find the hiding place of the Higgs particle: the direct production of Higgs particles and precision measurements of other particles and forces that could be influenced by the existence of a Higgs particle.'"

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weapon of mass destruction by msheekhah · 2012-03-05 08:50 · Score: 0

anti-higgs boson?

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Mark Anthony Collins
Why can science... by wbr1 · 2012-03-05 08:56 · Score: 4, Funny

....routinely measure such esoteric things, but still can't devise a test to determine my girlfriends mood?

--
Silence is a state of mime.
1. Re:Why can science... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-05 09:06 · Score: 0
  
  Because it is a trick question?
2. Re:Why can science... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-05 09:07 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  We can either determine her mood or determine that she is your girlfriend, not both.
3. Re:Why can science... by _merlin · 2012-03-05 09:09 · Score: 1
  
  You really just need a calendar for that, unless she's irregular.
4. Re:Why can science... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-05 09:10 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  Because people are much more complex than particle physics. Why that might seems strange, physicists are so very successful in part because the phenomena they seek to explain are the simplest possible, i.e. the fundaments of reality.
  Not that it's easy, no. But very much easier, or at least possible, than mathematically model, in any degree, a person.
  We cannot really even measure the mass of person to the degree of precision we can measure particles. Much in the same sense that measuring the shoreline of Norway is non-trivial if we want mm precision.
5. Re:Why can science... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-05 09:14 · Score: 1, Funny
  
  She's a woman? OK, advanced scientific instruments have determined that her current mood is:
  BITCHY
  That wasn't so hard now, was it? Also, while this may look like a comment, it's actually an advanced Web 3.0 application. Any time you want to know your girlfriends mood, just refer back to this post, as it will continually update as her mood changes.
6. Re:Why can science... by binarylarry · 2012-03-05 09:27 · Score: 2
  
  A better question is when did Pierce Brosnan become a physicist?
  I guess we know why he turned James Bond down.
  
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7. Re:Why can science... by wbr1 · 2012-03-05 09:30 · Score: 4, Funny
  
  Hmmm. Schrodinger's pussy I guess.
  
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  Silence is a state of mime.
8. Re:Why can science... by pinfall · 2012-03-05 09:33 · Score: 2
  
  I thought the title read Pierce Brosnan Male Measurements
9. Re:Why can science... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-05 10:13 · Score: 0
  
  A key difference is that there aren't teams of scientists all over the world trying to test (drive) your girlfriend. If there were, it'd he easy to gauge her mood.....
  More seriously, people are complicated. They don't like it when they're being manipulated and will often act precisely in the opposite way they'd normally do, if they suspect they're being used or manipulated.
  Two psychological tests highlight this, the prisoner's dilemma (which you probably already know) and the fairness dilemma which you might not. In the fairness dilemma it's often noted that if someone is deemed to be a cheater/enemy, people would rather receive no reward rather than the cheater/enemy receiving 10 times more than you do of a significant reward.
10. Re:Why can science... by Provocateur · 2012-03-05 10:31 · Score: 1
  
  First off, she has to be real.
  
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11. Re:Why can science... by UnknownSoldier · 2012-03-05 11:00 · Score: 0
  
  The better question is what is Science's answer for why women who live in the same house have their periods synchronized ?
12. Re:Why can science... by KingAlanI · 2012-03-05 11:01 · Score: 1
  
  no, that illustrates how the dress makes her butt look both big and small at the time.
  maybe you're thinking of the Heisenberg PMS principle?
  
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13. Re:Why can science... by KingAlanI · 2012-03-05 11:11 · Score: 1
  
  +1 informative/insightful
  this is a basic difference between the physical sciences and the social sciences
  
  --
  I listen to both RIAA and non-RIAA stuff if I like the music, tangential business/politics nonwithstanding.
14. Re:Why can science... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-05 11:48 · Score: 0
  
  Cat's outta the bag, or off the rag? I can't seem to remember...
15. Re:Why can science... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-05 12:07 · Score: 0
  
  I knew I would never make it in Physics when the professor got to electromagnetism. Every time he said "flux" my mind would wander off for several minutes...
16. Re:Why can science... by slew · 2012-03-05 12:10 · Score: 1
  
  A better question is when did Pierce Brosnan become a physicist?
  I guess we know why he turned James Bond down.
  Pierce Brosnan became a physicist in The World is not Enough... Of course the better questions are why did he quit doing that physicist gig to go sing ABBA songs and how in the hell did Denise Richards become a physicist?
17. Re:Why can science... by Sulphur · 2012-03-05 13:21 · Score: 1
  
  I knew I would never make it in Physics when the professor got to electromagnetism. Every time he said "flux" my mind would wander off for several minutes...
  I had an Astronomy prof who consistently said "Carpenicus." I can't remember anything near those events, except trying not to laugh.
80387? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-05 08:56 · Score: 2, Funny

So each W Bozon is a math coprocessor in and of itself?
Imagine a beowulf cluster...
1. Re:80387? by hal2814 · 2012-03-05 09:30 · Score: 1
  
  Is it SX or DX? The post isn't explicit on that point.
2. Re:80387? by marcosdumay · 2012-03-05 14:22 · Score: 1
  
  You don't add a 80387 to a DX processor. You must be confusing it witha a 80386.
  But it is ok, everybody is confused. Take a look at the error margin.
  
  --
  Rethinking email
3. Re:80387? by hal2814 · 2012-03-05 15:39 · Score: 1
  
  There were two 80387s. The 80387DX (originally just called the 80387) which was designed to work with the 80386DX (originally just called the 80386) and the 80387SX designed to work with the 16-bit data bus of the 80386SX. You could tell them apart because the 80387SX had edge-connector pins while the 80387DX had pins on the bottom. Maybe you are confusing this with the 486DX (which had an integrated math-coprocessor) vs. the 486SX (which had no integrated math-coprocessor)? But I can assure you that both the 386SX and 386DX required separate 80387 math coprocessors and that each math coprocessor was specific to the type of 386 chip. link
Where does the Higgs mass come from? by crt · 2012-03-05 09:00 · Score: 4, Insightful

If all other things get their mass from the Higgs Boson, where does the Higgs boson get its mass from?
1. Re:Where does the Higgs mass come from? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-05 09:04 · Score: 0
  
  Where does water get its water content from?
2. Re:Where does the Higgs mass come from? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-05 09:04 · Score: 0
  
  From all other things of course!
3. Re:Where does the Higgs mass come from? by ch-chuck · 2012-03-05 09:05 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  It's Higgs Boson's all the way down.
  
  --
  try { do() || do_not(); } catch (JediException err) { yoda(err); }
4. Re:Where does the Higgs mass come from? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-05 09:14 · Score: 0
  
  Simple, from your observation of it......
5. Re:Where does the Higgs mass come from? by xlsior · 2012-03-05 09:18 · Score: 2
  
  It's turtles, all the way down.
6. Re:Where does the Higgs mass come from? by Dishevel · 2012-03-05 09:22 · Score: 1
  
  Zombie says: "I like turtles!"
  
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  Why is it so hard to only have politicians for a few years, then have them go away?
7. Re:Where does the Higgs mass come from? by rfioren · 2012-03-05 09:23 · Score: 1
  
  From Boson Massachusetts?
8. Re:Where does the Higgs mass come from? by elfprince13 · 2012-03-05 09:30 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  The Higgs Mechanism is thought to give particles mass, and the Higgs boson is the particle that we anticipate to be the carrier particle for the Higgs field. Your question is a little bit like asking "if all other things get their light from photons, where do the photons get their light from?", which is to say, it reveals a bit of a misunderstanding about what's actually going on. That's okay though, because hardly anyone bothers to explain these things.
9. Re:Where does the Higgs mass come from? by Quantum+Jim · 2012-03-05 09:31 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  They get their masses from the Higgs Field. The W Boson is like a ripple in the W-Field. An electron is like a ripple in the electron-field (not the electrical field). Et cetera. So a Higgs Boson is like a ripple in the Higgs Field. But it still gets is mass by interacting with that field, like most other elementary particles with mass. Here's a good article that explains that: If the Higgs field were zero.
  
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10. Re:Where does the Higgs mass come from? by jlechem · 2012-03-05 09:32 · Score: 1
  
  IANATP but I enjoy reading about this stuff. Wikipedia has a semi decent article about it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higgs_boson Somehow these higgs bosons form a field that as other particles travel through it causes them slow down and have mass. Very layman answer and probably wrong but is how I see it from the wiki article.
  
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11. Re:Where does the Higgs mass come from? by BitterOak · 2012-03-05 09:54 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  The Higgs Mechanism is thought to give particles mass, and the Higgs boson is the particle that we anticipate to be the carrier particle for the Higgs field. Your question is a little bit like asking "if all other things get their light from photons, where do the photons get their light from?", which is to say, it reveals a bit of a misunderstanding about what's actually going on. That's okay though, because hardly anyone bothers to explain these things.
  No, that's not a good analogy, because Higgs particles do indeed have a mass of their own, while photons don't tan. Higgs particles can interact with themselves, and that's why they can have a mass while also giving other particles their mass. A better photon analogy would be this: photons carry the electromagnetic force and so they can be said to give charged particles their charge. But photons don't self-interact, so photons themselves don't have charge.
  
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12. Re:Where does the Higgs mass come from? by mikael · 2012-03-05 10:37 · Score: 1
  
  "Of course the universe is finite, where else do all the photons go?"
  
  --
  Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
13. Re:Where does the Higgs mass come from? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-05 11:09 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  This is a misunderstanding and misexplanation. What happens is that "Spontaneous Symmetry Breaking" gives particles their mass. The vacuum lowest energy ) state of must obey the same symmetry. Usually this is not a problem because the symmetry maps the vacuum state into itself. However with gauge symmetries this is not generally the case. Instead there are a set of states which are all symmetric to the each other as a vacuum. For the dynamics to be determined uniquely a vacuum state must be chosen. The process of chosing the vacuum state breaks the symmetry. ( Put another way the Universe evolves in a way which respects the symmetry, but the starting conditions for the Universe cannot possibly obey the symmetry, so it is broken. )
  Spontaneous symmetry breaking generates two artifacts. One is the particle essentially interacting with itself at the ground state. This is the mass of the particle.
  The other is the particle oscillating between different ground states. This gives rise to the Higgs.
  So in essence particle mass and the Higgs are both artifacts of Spontaneous Symmmetry Breaking.
14. Re:Where does the Higgs mass come from? by Quantum+Jim · 2012-03-05 11:10 · Score: 1
  
  Whoops. Allow me to correct my own post. Not all of the Higgs particle's mass is from the Higgs Field:
  
  In particular, as you can see in Figs. 3 and 7, the Higgs particle itself does not get all of its mass from the non-zero Higgs field — and the strength of its interaction with itself is not directly related to its mass. [There is a correlation, but not proportionality.] This is not unusual.
  
  I wonder how it gets the rest of its mass? That's a good question.
  
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  It is impossible to enjoy idling thoroughly unless one has plenty of work to do.
  - Jerome Klapka Jerome
15. Re:Where does the Higgs mass come from? by Rinikusu · 2012-03-05 11:12 · Score: 0
  
  wait... photons or protons?
  
  --
  If you were me, you'd be good lookin'. - six string samurai
16. Re:Where does the Higgs mass come from? by elfprince13 · 2012-03-05 14:49 · Score: 1
  
  I was trying to give the particle-physics short answer (carrier particles), rather than the gauge-theory long answer (symmetry groups), but thanks for the extra detail :)
17. Re:Where does the Higgs mass come from? by Chuck+Chunder · 2012-03-05 16:39 · Score: 1
  
  A (relatively) readable Higgs explanation
  
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  Boffoonery - downloadable Comedy Benefit for Bletchley Park
18. Re:Where does the Higgs mass come from? by BitterOak · 2012-03-05 18:41 · Score: 1
  
  wait... photons or protons?
  photons
  
  --
  If I can be modded down for being a troll, can I be modded up for being an orc, or a balrog?
19. Re:Where does the Higgs mass come from? by Quantum+Jim · 2012-03-06 19:04 · Score: 1
  
  Sorry for all the responses. I asked Professor Strassler on his website. He replied that it's actually a mystery where the Higgs gets it's mass! It's a very good question. All the other standard model particles, except the neutrino, get their masses via interacting with the Higgs field. We don't really understand neutrinos very well, though.
  
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  It is impossible to enjoy idling thoroughly unless one has plenty of work to do.
  - Jerome Klapka Jerome
Obligatory XKCD by Powercntrl · 2012-03-05 09:03 · Score: 4, Funny

Slashdot should just automatically link Higgs Boson to this, every time.
There's probably some truth to this, too. A particle accelerator is the ultimate geek toy.

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1. Re:Obligatory XKCD by mrstrano · 2012-03-05 09:33 · Score: 1
  
  Slashdot should have a script that finds relevant XKCD comics for every story. About 23% of all the posts link to XKCD anyhow.
2. Re:Obligatory XKCD by buchner.johannes · 2012-03-05 09:43 · Score: 0
  
  I prefer this one http://abstrusegoose.com/118 .......... http://www.cartoonstock.com/newscartoons/directory/H/Higgs.asp
  The particle accelerator is not aimed for the Higgs Boson only, that's only the start.
  
  --
  NB: The message above might reflect my opinion right now, but not necessarily tomorrow or next year.
3. Re:Obligatory XKCD by lennier · 2012-03-05 11:10 · Score: 2
  
  You would prefer another target, a massive scalar target? I grow tired of asking this, so it will be the last time. Where is the Higgs Boson?
  125 GeV. It's at 125 GeV.
  There, Lord Vader. She can be reasonable. Continue with the ATLAS/CMS collaboration; you can fire when ready.
  
  --
  You are not a brain: http://books.google.com/books?id=2oV61CeDx-YC
4. Re:Obligatory XKCD by hcs_$reboot · 2012-03-05 18:31 · Score: 1
  
  Or this one
  
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  Slashdot, fix the reply notifications... You won't get away with it...
5. Re:Obligatory XKCD by camperdave · 2012-03-06 06:54 · Score: 1
  
  I prefer this one http://abstrusegoose.com/118 ..........
  Way to waste three days of my life!
  
  --
  When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
Cupcakes by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-05 09:05 · Score: 4, Funny

I find the best way to lure a Higgs Boson out of hiding is with cupcakes.
1. Re:Cupcakes by dudpixel · 2012-03-05 14:25 · Score: 1
  
  I dunno, with all this talk of higgs' bosom I'm really hoping this "higgs" is a woman.
  
  --
  This seemed like a reasonable sig at the time.
Pierce Brosnan by AppleCrumbCake · 2012-03-05 09:06 · Score: 0

Thought this said "Pierce Brosnan's Mass Measurement" at first glance...holy hell, gotta see if my new glasses are ready.
Re:Except that the Higgs Boson doesn't exist by P-niiice · 2012-03-05 09:10 · Score: 2

If you had any understanding of the subject, they seem to be getting closer - not failing at all?
Wrong Summary by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-05 09:22 · Score: 3, Informative

The Higgs boson is the result of symmetry breaking in the electroweak force. It, in itself, does not give mass to all other things. It is an indicator that allows the existence of the higgs field and mechanism to be inferred.
The Higgs Boson has potential as fuel for cars by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-05 09:25 · Score: 0

Recent studies indicate that Higgs Boson powered automobiles are far more efficient per "gallon" of Higgs Boson particles than a similar automobile using a "gallon" of regular unleaded gasoline particles. With this in mind I believe that it is in our best interest to mass produce Higgs Boson particles so that we can compete against Japanese and German automobile manufacturers on the global market.
Since GM is owned by the government, and the government has unlimited amounts of money, it would seem that it is in the American government's best interests to build a Higgs Boson particle generating plant. In due time costs will go down to the point where it costs less than $3 for a gallon of Boson particles, and then we can laugh in Japan and Germany's face. We'll show them who the masters of innovation are!
And then once we've decimated their economies we can enslave them and put them to work doing the jobs that Americans are too good to do. We can make our iPods in Germany and Japan instead of in China, and we won't even need to use children. The children will be harvested as a delicacy for Americans. Who doesn't like a little long pig, eh?
Re:Except that the Higgs Boson doesn't exist by buchner.johannes · 2012-03-05 09:32 · Score: 1

All experimental attempts to create the Higgs Boson have failed. It's time we gave up on this rabbit hole and tried to focus on more important physics.
Consistently failing to find what your theories predict. Is it good or is it whack?
You should say: Consistantly finding theories to be false, never knowing things to be true. If that is all science can do ... is it good or is it whack?

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Pre Pentium Bug by codecore · 2012-03-05 09:32 · Score: 1

Fortunately the 80387 preceded the Pentium floating point bug, so they may actually be accurate.
1. Re:Pre Pentium Bug by Mr+Z · 2012-03-05 17:17 · Score: 1
  
  Ok, so mine wasn't the only brain thinking "floating point particle accelerator" or something in that space...
  
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  Program Intellivision!
The world average is +-15 MeV by n0mad6 · 2012-03-05 09:39 · Score: 1

The new number is +-15 MeV including the LEP measurements. +-17 is just the Tevatron.
LEXX by jimmerz28 · 2012-03-05 09:40 · Score: 2

Everytime we keep getting articles about this I wonder how accurate LEXX was in saying how M class planets always end up destroying themselves when attempting to find the mass of the Higgs Boson.
1. Re:LEXX by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-05 11:44 · Score: 1
  
  If something goes wrong, you'll see it here.
2. Re:LEXX by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-05 12:05 · Score: 0
  
  CLASS 13 PLANETS!
  Class M is from Star Trek, Class 13 is from LEXX.
  Turn in your geek badge.
  Son I am disappoint.
3. Re:LEXX by Mr+Z · 2012-03-05 17:19 · Score: 1
  
  Of course, M is the 13th character in the English alphabet, so aren't they really just two ways of saying the same thing?
  
  --
  Program Intellivision!
Pierce? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-05 09:42 · Score: 0

Pierce Brosnan's middle initial is W?
_The Hunting of the Higgson_? by Doc+Ruby · 2012-03-05 09:47 · Score: 1

These twists and turns in deducing how to test physics for the existence of the Higgs Boson is going to make an interesting book when it's either proven or disproven.
Who would you like to see write it?
Who would you like to see star in the movie based on it?

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make install -not war
1. Re:_The Hunting of the Higgson_? by pseudofrog · 2012-03-05 10:47 · Score: 1
  
  Quentin Tarantino.
  
  Rick Moranis.
"Lead the way to the Higgs Boson"? by 93+Escort+Wagon · 2012-03-05 09:47 · Score: 2

The headline reads as if it were an announcement that the Higgs had been discovered, when all that's really happened is they've further constrained the possible range of masses the Higgs Boson could be if it exists at all.

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1. Re:"Lead the way to the Higgs Boson"? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-05 10:06 · Score: 0
  
  it's a bit like an intelligent politician or an honest lawyer, theoretically and statisically they should exist but can you ever find one?
2. Re:"Lead the way to the Higgs Boson"? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-05 10:11 · Score: 0
  
  Oh, politicians are usually quite intelligent. The fact that they've convinced you otherwise is their ultimate genius (and proof of their evil!)
Re:Except that the Higgs Boson doesn't exist by lennier · 2012-03-05 10:57 · Score: 1

You should say: Consistantly finding theories to be false, never knowing things to be true.
But if we can never prove a scientific theory to be true, how do we go about proving for sure the theory that we've proven another theory to be false...?
Bertrand Russell makes Karl Popper cry! (while Kurt Goedel sits in the corner smirking)

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come on now by KingAlanI · 2012-03-05 11:06 · Score: 4, Funny

menstruation jokes are the lowest form of humor, period.

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1. Re:come on now by neurocutie · 2012-03-05 14:10 · Score: 1
  
  that's bloody funny... but it goes with the flow...
2. Re:come on now by rubycodez · 2012-03-05 14:17 · Score: 1
  
  we should put a tamp on this thread
3. Re:come on now by KingAlanI · 2012-03-05 15:29 · Score: 1
  
  I have thought of puns involving the the British use of 'bloody' as an intensifier
  now how can I pad the length of this comment?
  
  --
  I listen to both RIAA and non-RIAA stuff if I like the music, tangential business/politics nonwithstanding.
there's an app for that by KingAlanI · 2012-03-05 11:07 · Score: 1

there's an app for that - several apps actually, here's one
http://itunes.apple.com/app/iamaman/id298727312?mt=8

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I listen to both RIAA and non-RIAA stuff if I like the music, tangential business/politics nonwithstanding.
Mark Alpert, Final Theory by KingAlanI · 2012-03-05 11:28 · Score: 1

This is (sort of) the plot of a sci-fi thriller I read recently: Final Theory by Mark Alpert. The idea is that Einstein hides a discovery of his which could lead to weapons even worse than the atomic bomb.
In reality, Einstein suggested an atomic bomb to Roosevelt for fear the Nazis would get one first, and regretted the results (Hiroshima/Nagasaki)

--
I listen to both RIAA and non-RIAA stuff if I like the music, tangential business/politics nonwithstanding.
1. Re:Mark Alpert, Final Theory by tenco · 2012-03-05 21:47 · Score: 2
  
  This is (sort of) the plot of a sci-fi thriller I read recently: Final Theory by Mark Alpert. The idea is that Einstein hides a discovery of his which could lead to weapons even worse than the atomic bomb.
  Sounds a lot like "The Physicists" from Dürrenmatt.
Oblig. Dilbert by Cigarra · 2012-03-05 12:08 · Score: 2

Dilbert figured it out already

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Tevatron data and software. by patfla · 2012-03-05 12:50 · Score: 2

It's interesting that the Tevatron is still producing scientific results even though the particle accelerator was shutdown Sept 30 of 2011. And that's because there's still a massive quantity of undigested data from the experiments that stopped running at that time.
If one reads about the LHC, one sees the same phenomenon. Which proposes that one of the things that could kick particle physics (and many other areas) forward the fastest is better software. Or maybe that's already obvious to everyone else?
1. Re:Tevatron data and software. by Mr+Z · 2012-03-05 17:23 · Score: 2
  
  Is it really the software, or is it proper formulations of hypotheses to test against the raw data? It's one thing to say "I'm looking for the XYZ particle." It's quite another to say "If an XYZ particle interacts with a ZYX particle in such-a-such way, it should result in ZZZ and XXX decaying in such-a-such pattern. Did we see that pattern?" Wash, rinse, repeat for all possible interactions and decay product patterns.
  I'm not a particle physicist, but my impression from the outside looking in is that the limit seems to be the creativity of the physicists constructing "experiments" to run against the data based on careful extrapolations from the standard model.
  Any physicists here on /. that can confirm, deny or refine that impression?
  
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