Slashdot Mirror
30 Years of the TRS-80 Model 100
An anonymous reader writes with this "interview with John R Hogerhuis, one of the key players in the still suprisingly active community for the TRS-80 Model 100 portable computer. As the Model 100 approaches its 30th birthday, John talks about what has kept the machine popular for so long, current software and hardware work that is keeping it relevant, and what modern developers could learn from spending some on a computer from 1983."
No comments yet, and the server is already slashdotted...
It must be running on one of those old beasties. :P
I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
Great curio. It runs forever on a set of AA batteries, and I've written a few BASIC programs to show it off. Once in a great while, I'll take notes on it, transferring back to PC via serial cable.
Love the keyboard, and the BASIC environment is the last OS type code that Bill Gates wrote.
Blogging because I can...
The nice thing about those old computers was the response time. Type something, hit the enter key, and the prompt was ready for the next line. Of course you couldn't really do anything with them except play the simplest games, but still...
All the big-names are 30 years old just now.
This includes the TRS80 Color computer (The computer that got me into this crazy field in the first place... OS9 for ever!)
, Commodore VIC 20, 64, Apple II, ZX Spectrum, Amstrad They are all are / going to be in their 30's !!.
Who feels old now??
The Model 100 had a number of features that modern computers lack. If you need a simple computer to make notes, its battery life was in the 20 hours region. It was many many long years before the modern PC laptop was "portable" and had a battery life greater than 3 hours. (I'm thinking of some of the old transportables, which weighed 35 lbs and had no batteries.)
At long last, with the advent of the OLPC, the Eee PC, the smartphone, and a few of the smaller laptops, battery life has reached the 6 to 12 hours. However, for taking a piece of equipment to strange places with no power, being able to use AA batteries to power your computer is a really helpful feature.
Really wish the modern laptop could run from batteries longer. It's sad that a 30 year old PC is still competitive with regards to battery life.
I do. My first computer was a TRS-80 MC-10 (a sort of little brother to the CoCo that run a 6803, where I did my first assembly language experiments). The first actual code I wrote was on a Commodore 64 and I mucked around with Integer BASIC on Apple II's at school. And OS9 definitely rocked, and BASIC-09 is still for me the best structured BASIC variant ever developed. I'd take my Pascal programming class at school and with relative ease port the code I wrote over to BASIC-09.
Gawd I do feel old.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
With flip-up screen. It was sweet, helped me get through high school. Yes, I was the geek with the laptop, the only kid in school who had one (bought cheap from DAK with summer job money). Gave me and my friend some fun self-wiring a connection between than and his Model 100 until we realized the motherboards and connectors were flipped between the two.
In those days everyone called it the "Trash 80", probably including unit owners (as typical techie deprecating humor). TRS stood for "Tandy-Radio Shack", Tandy being the original name of the company that is now known as Radio Shack, and which would like to be known as "The Shack".
TRS-80 Mod 1, Apple ][, then ZX-81 here. It was a great intro as a kid to Basic, several assembly languages, Forth, etc. I still apply a lot of the lessons learned in writing maintainable (or not) code from those first machines and languages.
...one of the key players in the still suprisingly active community for the TRS-80 Model 100 portable computer.
Reminds me of the episode of the Simpsons where Burns says "have I missed the 4:30 autogyro to Siam?"
well the Pocket PCs such as the HP 100/200LX had CGA screen with full 80x25 text and graphics and could run for at least 30 hours, with almost any DOS program you wish, include TCP clients (browsers, telnet, ftp, etc).
My trs-80 has a serial number below 250. Not sure exactly what the number is though, I'd have to dig it out of my dad's attic 2000 miles from here to check.
This space available.
Here's a link to the emulator: http://sourceforge.net/projects/virtualt/
Model 1, neglected to say. There's also a model 4p up there. And a vectrex with all accessories and carts.
Obsolete tech museum.
I sold my model 100 and model 102 a few years back.
This space available.
23 hours , as long as you use the "slice battery"
On my last DOS machine it was easier to just dial into the local freenet and use links/elinks and the other *nix utilities...
Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos
Used a model 1 briefly (a few weekends when I could borrow it from school) but fell in love with the CoCo. Ah, good stuff....
Thank you for illustrating that you don't know what a TRS-80 Model 100 is.
Hint: it's not a desktop.
Retro video game fans know this CPU well but it's still being sold in brand new products with new software being targeted for it.
I use a Z-80 every day in my so-called car MP4 player. These are cheap car FM transmitter players that are easily found on eBay for a measly six bucks. They're so cheap I hand them out at Christmas to anyone who wants one.
The knock off second generation iPod Nanos are based on the same thing. Those are like twenty bucks because they have the battery and a bit more hassle than they're worth but what is cool in a geeky sort of way about these two products together is that since they both use the Z-80, they both use the same video compression format. It does work to play videos and the open source package works fine on Linux.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRS-80_Model_100
You can see many of his early ideas in how the thing operates.
Blogging because I can...
There *are* we servers running on model 100s out there.
They don't serve much, but they exist.
hawk
Apple ][, then ZX-81 here.
Ouch. What happened?
"And a vectrex with all accessories and carts."
You do know those things are really rare to come along?
I've got better things to do tonight than die.
What was the original price on one of these? How did it compare to its competitors? By competitors I mean other computers of the time, as this was obviously the first portable. What sort of premium did you have to pay for portability?
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
I used to run mine on nicads. I think I got 4 or 6 hours: I forget.
Many folks carved space and jerry-rigged a fifth battery to get 6 volts; I ran on just 4--which gave me longer battery life than on the correct voltage (with that type of CMOS, current dissipation was proportional to voltage).
It never occurred to me before, but it likely would have run on 4.5v from three alkalines, and boosted battery life. I'm not likely to put enough hours on ever again to ever find out . . .
However, when the low pow light came on, instead of 20 minutes, yu had 20 seconds . . .
hawk
Battery technology has gotten much better, as well as tricks to lower power consumption. I wonder what sort of battery life you'd get if you took the same basic design, die-shrunk the chips to 32nm to lower the voltage, and used a large monolithic Lithium-Ion battery instead of a pack of AAs. Maybe add some dynamic frequency scaling, if that would get you anything.
I would not be surprised if you got a battery life measured in weeks.
Unless my memory is playing tricks on me, Weren't those used at McDonald's behind the counters ?
I've got better things to do tonight than die.
However, go find me a COMPUTER that has a battery life of half a work week , running off the kind of batteries I'd find at Wal-Mart or 7-11. It has to be a complete, self-reliant computer - I should be able to not just install any program I want, but *write* any program I can write, all without needing any other computer.
Ok, I've got a HP calculator in my desk drawer that roughly fit that description and are VASTLY more powerful than the model 100.
The problem isn't making a computer that does what you are talking about. The problem is making one you'd actually want to use for more than extremely limited uses. We don't make general purpose computers like the model 100 anymore because we don't have to and because people don't want them, not because we couldn't. We could easily create a device today that outpeforms the model 100 for a narrow range of tasks.
Those HP palmtops were interesting machines. At one job, a Finance Director would carry one around and whip it out if he wanted to do some quick calculations using the built-in Lotus 123. I think they may have been largely forgotten because this was about the time when 'everyone' started using Windows & Excel.
Business. Numbers. Money. People. Computer World.
There were stuffs that brought back really good memory, but not the trash-80s
Of course, we read all the manuals and hand-coded some programs, but I didn't put in too much time for it, for there are other machines that offered much more flexibility and robustness
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
Scriptsit was DA BOMB back in the day, just like VisiCalc was for an Apple spreadsheet.
Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic.
The Model 100 came out about the time I turned 18 and got an inheritance from my grand-father's estate. It was about five thousand bucks. Money was really tight and my new wife and I went round after round "discussing" whether it was more important that I get one of these devices or pay for something more "realistic" like things for the baby soon to arrive. I got one, but it wasn't pleasant. I still remember driving home from RS - had my wife drive so I could play with it - and being utterly enthralled with my new purchase.
Yes, the money probably could've been spent more prudently, but that computer helped launch my career in technology which has been, for the most part, very rewarding - my wife's not complaining about money, at least. After nearly 30 years, my wife doesn't argue so much about what I buy, my son has grown up and is doing just fine on his own, and my Model 100 is on the shelf right behind me. Still works, just like the day I got it.
So which one am I thinking of then? It was a TRS-80, it had an integrated monitor and floppy drives and it was "portable", in that it had a foldout keyboard which when closed covered the screen. It had a carry handle. I wouldn't call it portable in the modern sense, but it was portable in the sense that it meant in 1984 - you could tote it around, take it home, etc.
They still sell on eBay for about their original retail price (several hundred dollars), even though a new one hasn't been made for over a decade. They really were cool machines at the time. An MS-DOS computer, in your hand? Amazing. I had a professor use one as a demonstration for an operating systems class.
perhaps one of these?
http://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?c=1083
Business. Numbers. Money. People. Computer World.
I have an Olivetti M10, which is exactly identical to the TRS-80 100, apart for the obvious (the logo).
No laptop has ever had such decadent keyboard as this wee little machine. A joy to use.
"The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
People who think that a long word is just a more fancy synonym for a similar but shorter word come across as utterance idiolects.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
I recall Microsofts International VP, Scott Oki, tapping away on his Model 100 when he visited us at DEC in 1983. I had the privilege of taking Paul Maritz, now of VMware, into seeing my CEO in 2011, and while waiting for my CEO, got chatting about iPads. I mentioned Scott Oki, and he said he remembered Scott going everywhere with that Tandy TRS 80 Model 100. Wasn't it actually made by Kyocera?
Ha. My Atari 800XL was released in late 1983, so I'm safe for another year...
Nah, just kidding - I'm feeling old just the same.
np: Public Image Ltd. - U.S.L.S. 1 (9)
"I'm not anti-anything, I'm anti-everything, it fits better." - Sole
Ha. My Atari 800XL was released in late 1983, so I'm safe for another year...
Yeah, but that doesn't really count, as it was essentially just an improved version of the Atari 800 which came out in 1979 :-)
"Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
The Apple was at school. I bought the ZX-81 myself, and still have it as well.
All the big-names are 30 years old just now.
This includes the TRS80 Color computer (The computer that got me into this crazy field in the first place... OS9 for ever!)
I have to admit, I had my Atari 130XE running Spartados when I ran into a Coco running OS9 and was pretty much incredulous (and humbled).
Nowadays companies like Cloud 9 and projects like NitrOS-9 are keeping the fun alive.
If time weren't so damned finite I'd love to pick up a Coco 3 and pop a 6309 into and get busy.. alas real life intrudes.
The Psion Series 3/3a/3c had similar specs to the HP palmtops, but they weren't crippled by running DOS. EPOC16 (which later evolved into Symbian) ran a multitasking GUI in 256KB of RAM, which was also used as a RAM disk. My 3 had a spreadsheet on an SSD, but the 3A and later came with it built in. There's a DOS-based 3A emulator that runs nicely in DOSBox floating around.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
This was my first computer! I spent $1,000 on it. It was awesome and I still have it. I'm sure if I popped some fresh batteries in it it would still work. The funny thing is I'm betting Bill Gates also wrote the manual which was famously a mess with references to non-existent sections. Still, this got me into software development. I remember I had a tape-backup drive that I used to store off programs and after I had been storing them on tape for a long while I noticed that I had a variable-speed tape player and I was never able to recover a dang thing from tape. Still, I loved this and eventually got a floppy disk drive for it that would store 250K. Still have all that in a bin.
Sure, the guts are nothing to write home about, but can you imagine a modern version of this with an ARM SoC, GNU/Linux, an e-ink screen, USB, and ethernet? That would still rock pretty damn hard.
I started way back when with the ZX81, joined with a TS1000. We moved up to the TRS80 models 2-4, then their PC-type Tandy 1000 series. But the TRS80-100 was great. That was something I could lug to school and show off with. I even (OK, this is hard to admit) built programs to help run role-playing games- things like time to distance at various warp speeds for real stars in our galaxy, tracking various character issues, etc.
I don't use it for much any more. I'm not that kind of hobbyist, I guess. I do have it ready for use when I want to send messages over the ham frequencies. It's part of my emergency kit. I'm proud to say that it isn't some novelty item for me, but still a useful tool. I still love this thing.
I hope this comment is well received... I could have moderated instead!
Persecutors will be violated!
http://youtu.be/Prl6D7bqQo8
Maybe the model 200?
To Copy from One is Plagiarism; To Copy from Many is Research.
Maybe you're thinking of the TRS-80 Model 4P: http://www.obsoletecomputermuseum.org/trs80_4p/