Slashdot Mirror
Pakistani Court Rules On Internet Censorship: Unconstitutional
Fluffeh writes "It looks like some Pakistanis are taking on 'the man.' With plans laid by the Pakistani Government that could sink up to fifty million websites that it isn't a fan of, Pakistanis took the matter to court — which ruled that such action by the government was unconstitutional. Reporters without Borders was however a little more skeptical 'The high court's ruling, if respected, would make it impossible for the government to introduce any nationwide website filtering system. While welcoming the ruling, which penalizes the lack of transparency in the PTA's past website blocking, Reporters Without Borders calls for vigilance because the PTA could try to circumvent it by devising a constitutional procedure based on the anti-blasphemy law and national security provisions. '"
Our guys have been asleep at the wheel for the last 10 years. I'm pretty sure at this point that most of the U.S. Justices don't even know there *is* a 4th Amendment, much less what it says.
What political party do you join when you don't like Bible-thumpers *or* hippies?
No no no, you don't get it. It is opposite day today!
From the summary:
"because the PTA could try to circumvent it by devising a constitutional procedure based on the anti-blasphemy law and national security provisions."
Pakistan must have a very powerful Parent-Teacher Association. Or, whoever wrote the summary might have defined "PTA".
And where is that band who so vauntingly swore
That the havoc of war and the battle's confusion,
A home and a country, should leave us no more?
Their blood has washed out their foul footsteps' pollution.
No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight, or the gloom of the grave:
Pakistan? :\
"If anyone needs me, I'm in the angry dome."
It's a great day for freedom in Europe too!
A court in Mannheim ruled on Wednesday that Microsoft infringed Motorola Mobility's patents and ordered Microsoft to remove its popular Xbox 360 gaming consoles and Windows 7 operating system software from the German market.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/05/02/us-microsoft-motorola-idUSBRE8410DC20120502?feedType=RSS&feedName=businessNews&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+reuters%2FbusinessNews+(News+%2F+US+%2F+Business+News)
Yeeha!
Let's see how the slashshills respond to THAT little piece of freedom!
Don't worry, citizen. Everything the government does is to keep you safe. Lying, molesting people at airports, warrantless wiretapping... it's all for you! You should feel honored that we're keeping you safe!
And don't forget about being the one's who come up with the terrorist plots in order to foil them.
It's *not* opposite day today, you mean. Or don't mean? I'm confused ... or not.
Great news, I was worried no one would be able to visit https://dronefinder.pk.
The difference between banana-republic-style, "third world" oppression and superpower, "first world" oppression is merely the shiny package it comes in.
So the camel jockeys of Pakistan care more about freedom of speech/expression than the 'home of the free'? LOL. I'm guessing they also don't submit people to grope sessions just to fly planes either.
It takes a bit more courage to take on the establishment in Pakistan than it does in the USA. In Pakistan the reactionaries can lock you up and torture or even 'disappear' their own citizens if they get too annoying, in the USA they are still stuck at the 'I'd like to be able to do that to people other than renditioned foreigners' stage.
In Islamic Pakistan, the High Court protects you!
A US Court has ruled that Motorola can't force Microsoft to stop trading in Germany, if you read the BBC News version: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-17924190
"However, Motorola cannot enforce the ruling until a Seattle-based judge lifts a restraining order.
The restriction was put in place after Microsoft claimed that Motorola was abusing its Frand-commitments - a promise to licence innovations deemed critical to widely-used technologies under "fair, reasonable and non-discriminatory" terms."
It pays to be obvious, especially if you have a reputation for being subtle.
Actually that's pretty inaccurate. I'm going to ignore the obnoxious racism in your comment and just address the freedoms issue. No major government body in the US is trying to block fifty million websites, and if they did, the entire Supreme Court would tell them no. And the US rejected any form of blasphemy laws as unconstitional quite some time ago. Pakistan still allows the execution of people for blasphemy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blasphemy_law_in_Pakistan. Shabaz Bhatti http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shahbaz_Bhatti was assassinated just for trying to lessen the penalties on the blasphemy laws. As to the matter of grope sessions to fly planes- Pakistan has essentially close to almost no equivalent of Fourth Amendment protections. The US and Europe are not in great shape right now, and there's no question that human rights have been getting better in Pakistan in the last few years (especially post-Musharraf), but let's not lose perspective here on overall which is set of countries is doing better for human rights.
Clearly somebody though May first was April 1st... nothing to see here move along.
120 characters ought to be enough for anyone
I can't speak for the justices, but I can speak for my elected representatives!
My congressman and both senators don't know what the 4th Amendment is: http://slashdot.org/my/journal
The government can't be seen offending their own people. They're more progressive than they let on. Because of the threat of violence from the religious fundies, the progressives often disguise their actions or appear to be "arguing for" something they are actually against.
All of the institutions in Pakistan have to walk lines between the progress the lawyers and intellectuals and professors want to see happen and what the religious fundies will tolerate. It's not that different in the US. as the etch-a-sketch positioning in the Republican primaries reveal. You can't alienate that much of your (stupid) electorate and expect to get or stay in power.
The government and most of the military in Pakistan hates the Taliban as much as anyone and was as glad as we were when we did bin Laden Of course they had to act outraged.
Pakistan is chock -o-block full with highly intelligent forward looking progressives who aren't drinking the Kool-aid. That's why the drone program is a great thing. The religious head cases in Waziristan are hated by many Pakis as much as they're hated by us, and both the Pakistan government and its military smile every time a fundie gets dished out to him what he earnestly sought to dish out to civil society.
Just like with any other country, you can't understand the international headlines unless you have at least a basic grasp of the domestic politics.
Less consumer choice is freedom?
I'm sure everyone here loves spending every waking hour fighting CISPA/PIPA/SOPA/ACTA or every other incarnation that will be silently pushed into law. We must demand a Constitutional amendment that clearly defines personal privacy and Internet usage as an inalienable right. The days of hoping your representative Democracy will work for you are sadly over.
Your Journal: http://slashdot.org/~Scarred+Intellect/journal/
Not My Journal: http://slashdot.org/my/journal
Every time I start to have faith in humanity, I ruin it by driving to work between 7 and 8 am.
Dude, you're on Slashdot, home of autistic geek filth that lives in tiny mental bubbles where the US has become the worst place ever in the history of the universe or any fictional work, and everything is measured in multiple Hitlers. For example, buying an iPhone makes you as bad as 6 Hitlers.
So the camel jockeys of Pakistan care more about freedom of speech/expression than the 'home of the free'? LOL. I'm guessing they also don't submit people to grope sessions just to fly planes either.
It takes a bit more courage to take on the establishment in Pakistan than it does in the USA. In Pakistan the reactionaries can lock you up and torture or even 'disappear' their own citizens if they get too annoying, in the USA they are still stuck at the 'I'd like to be able to do that to people other than renditioned foreigners' stage.
Well, that makes the US citizens seem rather lame, a big bunch of pussies that don't do a thing to protect that freedom themselves. Relying completely on a government to protect that freedom while that government is showing time and time again that its trying to erode that very freedom.
They kill women who dare to refuse to be married or otherwise somehow besmirch the "honor" of their families.
They just kill anyone who decides not be be a Muslim any longer (apostasy).
Some "Freedom" they have over there.
Can't miss an opportunity to take a shot at the good ol' US of A, huh?
People are trained from kindergarden onwards to think that if someone tries to do something privately or in secret, they must be doing something that breaks the rules. We are also trained from kindergarden onwards to think that the rules are sacred and must not be broken, so people wind up thinking that anyone who wants privacy must be doing some immoral.
What, you want to have privacy? What are you trying to hide?
Palm trees and 8
in the USA they are still stuck at the 'watch him long enough and eventually he'll commit a crime' stage.
FTFY. Here in the US, we get around the "well you can only arrest people who break the law" by creating so many laws and such a complex legal system that almost everyone is guilty of something.
Palm trees and 8
So the camel jockeys of Pakistan care more about freedom of speech/expression than the 'home of the free'? LOL. I'm guessing they also don't submit people to grope sessions just to fly planes either.
1. How did this absolute Troll get up to +3 Insightful? He obviously doesn't know jack fucking shit about Pakistan, try traveling there sometime you fucking idiot, then you'll see how much they "love freedom". Fucking monekyspunk.
2. "Reporters Without Borders calls for vigilance because the PTA could try to circumvent it by devising a constitutional procedure based on the anti-blasphemy law and national security provisions. '"
Well no shit, I figured that out before I finished reading the headline.
Well you lard asses do deserve with all the chest thumping about how you have so much freedom and are so brave yet you are crippled with fear over FBI-syaged terrorist plots and destroy your freedoms daily.
Let's see how the slashshills respond to THAT little piece of freedom!
Why don't you just see for yourself?
Really, you're that eager to Troll that you couldn't even wait a half an hour....
http://yro.slashdot.org/story/12/05/02/1354238/german-court-grants-motorola-xbox-and-windows-7-sales-ban
No major government body in the US is trying to block fifty million websites
I guess lobbyists from the MPAA and RIAA are not technically part of the government; they only pad the wallets of politicians and draft legislation for them.
the US rejected any form of blasphemy laws as unconstitional quite some time ago
While simultaneously making other classes of speech illegal. Just because we violate free speech rights differently than the Pakistanis would does not mean that we are not violating free speech rights.
As to the matter of grope sessions to fly planes- Pakistan has essentially close to almost no equivalent of Fourth Amendment protections
So on the one hand, Pakistan has no privacy laws, and on the other the US simply ignores its privacy laws and publicly humiliates its citizens. Here is the question you were trying to answer, but failed to: does Pakistan grope its citizens en masse, the way the United States does?
there's no question that human rights have been getting better in Pakistan
Here is what you left out: human rights have been getting worse in the United States, and are worsening at an accelerating pace. Freedom of speech? Only if you do not bother the important people with it. Privacy rights? Only if you never travel or communicate electronically. The right to live a free and happy life? Only if you are not a member of the world's largest prison population, which in case anyone has forgotten is the prison population of the United States.
To put it another way, is it the US or Pakistan that has paramilitary police forces that shoot innocent people with assault rifles and add personal assets to their budgets, with the approval and encouragement of the government?
Palm trees and 8
Was thinking the same thing myself.
Sad when a backwater like Pakistan gets that blocking the web is wrong (amazing that their constitution prohibits it IMO), but 'the home of the free' can't seem to figure it out.
Seriously, Slashdot needs to accept the proper standardized term kilonazi. It even fits with the unhealthy obsession over metric prefixes.
No, I think the committee decided to lessen that offense to 4.5.
So on the one hand, Pakistan has no privacy laws, and on the other the US simply ignores its privacy laws and publicly humiliates its citizens. Here is the question you were trying to answer, but failed to: does Pakistan grope its citizens en masse, the way the United States does?
The point you may have been missing is that the answer is essentially "yes, and far worse". In the US one is subject to such searches if one is going on a plane and one doesn't go through the backscatter screening. In contrast, in Pakistan, security forces can stop you on the street anywhere and do about the same level of search or more.
To put it another way, is it the US or Pakistan that has paramilitary police forces that shoot innocent people with assault rifles and add personal assets to their budgets, with the approval and encouragement of the government?
Any violation of this sort in Pakistan is actually orders of magnitude worse than the US. So, the answer in this context is "to some extent in the US and far far worse in Pakistan". Overall, the only bit you are correct on is that the situation is getting worse in the US. That's obviously a problem, but that doesn't change the fact that the situation is much worse in Pakistan.
No, really. You should move. Besides it clearing the air considerably here, you really do need to go see that if you spout that silliness in a non-NATO country (and also IN some NATO countries) that you will not need a fair trial because the local police or military will have killed you in plain site of everyone. And all the witnesses will just walk away. It's sad, but true. So, good luck.
'It's okay that the US government does bad things on a scale that many dictators would envy because the darkies do worse things! America! Fuck yeah!'
I'm pretty sure at this point that most of the U.S. Justices don't even know there *is* a 4th Amendment, much less what it says.
Uh, wouldn't this be a first amendment issue in the US?
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
Actually, ISPs in the US don't block copyright infringing websites
Up until the point where the US government seizes domain names.
As to your claim that other areas of free speech are restricted in the US, exactly what speech are you talking about?
How about praising terrorists:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/22/opinion/sunday/a-dangerous-mind.html?ref=terrorism
Or publishing articles with controversial views about terrorism:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ward_churchill
Or publishing books about making drugs (note that Shulgin lost his license to do research -- including research on drugs that he discovered):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pihkal
Or recording the police:
http://cryptogon.com/?p=22744
Some of these things are illegal; some are legal in theory but restricted in practice. Or publishing information about breaking DRM systems:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DMCA
Or publishing cartoon descriptions of child abuse:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PROTECT_Act_of_2003
Or speaking outside of designated free speech zones:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_speech_zone
I guess you could say that these things are not as bad as outright bans on criticisms of the government. Yet we do have a whole lot of restrictions on free speech, both in the law and in practice.
In the US one is subject to such searches if one is going on a plane
This amounts to millions of people subjected to searches, in a systematic and humiliating way.
Any violation of this sort in Pakistan is actually orders of magnitude worse than the US
[citation needed]
Palm trees and 8
No no no, you don't get it. It is opposite day today!
If today is opposite day, then that means he gets it.
"Mouth-off to an EU policeman and he or SHE will beat the living crap out of you in public with no fear of reprisal".
You, dear Sir, are completely bonkers.
"Kill 'em all and let Root sort 'em out"
FTFY. Here in the US, we get around the "well you can only arrest people who break the law" by creating so many laws and such a complex legal system that almost everyone is guilty of something
That's true in most countries but it's more due to laws piling up and nobody ever working up the energy to clean out the cruft. My uncle used to be a cop in a small fishing village, one day he caught a couple of foreign sailors who had stolen a goat and slaughtered it. When he looked up the relevant passage in his law book (nobody had stolen livestock in this place for over a hundred years) and immediately called the justice ministry to ask for advice. The lawyer at the other end got pretty annoyed over being bothered with this misdemeanor until my uncle told him that according to the (12th century) law on the books he was supposed to hang these guys. Eventually the legal eagles decided to forego this particular form of punishment and the captain of the ship in question paid a fine and compensated the farmer. The law was then quickly abolished by a special session of parliament.
The US President has made it legal for him to execute anyone anywhere in the world based on secret evidence reviewed in a secret court. The US jails people indefinitely without trial. The NSA is starting to store all traffic in the Internet (good luck with that, and boy that is going to rake in the pork), etc, etc. The US Constitution has been shredded, after all 'it is just a piece of paper'.
Some "Freedom" they have over there.
Dude, you're so wrong- guys over there have the freedom to screw almost any goat they please, as long as they marry it afterwards.
Most of your reply isn't really relevant because I've agreed with you that the US has serious problems and that some of them are getting worse. In that context, pointing to specific problems doesn't really do much. But it may be instructive to look at your examples:
Tarek Mehanna is an appalling example and not the only such case. Ward Churchill was guilty of severe plagiarism. It is true that people paid more attention to him and the plagiarism accusations because of his politically controversial statements, but that's a much weaker claim (and no one seriously disagrees with the plagiarism issue in his case). The issues related to recording the police are also a serious one and one that is really despicable. It varies a lot from state to state, and some states are actually improving (see for example, the ongoing legislation in Connecticut that will allow people to sue cops who try to interfere with recording http://stratford.patch.com/articles/bill-protects-citizens-recording-police-a8140340). In Pakistan, that wouldn't even be an issue because the police or military would just beat up the person recording and take the recording. Pihkal is a potential example of where someone was targeted for their speech, although actual violations of research and security policies were found in the lab. Your statement about the DMCA is just factually wrong- the DMCA prohibits circumvention of copy-protection mechanisms, it doesn't prohibit discussion of how to do so. The PROTECT_Act has some pretty stupid provisions, and trying to make virtual porn illegal is a violation of free speech by many notions. In Pakistan essentially all pornography is essentially illegal and they regularly block pornographic websites http://tribune.com.pk/story/293434/pta-approved-over-1000-porn-sites-blocked-in-pakistan/. Free speech zones are a really wretched idea and do implicitly violate actual free speech protections, although weak forms that only restrict time, place and manner without any content aspect are probably ok (and in fact courts in the last few years have struck down many attempts to restrict anything beyond that- see for example what happened with Texas Tech in 2004).
In the US one is subject to such searches if one is going on a plane
This amounts to millions of people subjected to searches, in a systematic and humiliating way.
You cut off part of my sentence which ended with "and one doesn't go through the backscatter screening", and that's quite relevant here. About 2 million people are subject monthly to pat-downs http://www.politifact.com/georgia/statements/2011/may/17/janet-napolitano/homeland-security-chief-stresses-very-very-very-fe/. That estimate includes people who are getting pat-downs after they've already triggered some sort of warning, not just randomized pat-downs or op-out pat-downs. Again, the Pakistan situation is very different- the police and military can stop anyone on the streets and search them with no justification. I don't know if that results in more total searches in the US, but if it does, it is only because the US is a much larger country. As a percentage matter, the result would be pretty clear.
Any violation of this sort in Pakistan is actually orders of magnitude worse than the US
[citation needed]
Sure. http://www.hrw.org/asia/pakistan, http://www.state.gov/j/drl/rls/hrrpt/2010/sca/154485.htm,
Oh, wait, I think these jokes are done now
no it's not. :)
Our guys have been asleep at the wheel for the last 10 years. I'm pretty sure at this point that most of the U.S. Justices don't even know there *is* a 4th Amendment, much less what it says.
I'm pretty sure there is another possibility - that they in fact do understand it, as applied, and you don't. One of the big stumbling blocks is people keep refusing to acknowledge the difference between procedure under ordinary criminal law, and the law of war, or national security law more generally. Most people here have a better understanding of cheese, which still baffles them, than they do of how the Constitution applies to armed conflict.
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
So the camel jockeys of Pakistan care more about freedom of speech/expression than the 'home of the free'? LOL. I'm guessing they also don't submit people to grope sessions just to fly planes either.
We understand. You just go ahead and keep telling yourself whatever it takes to get you out of bed in the morning.
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
+1 Insightful
Most people don't realize that we have such maze of laws that the average American breaks three laws a day, often without even knowing it.
although weak forms that only restrict time, place and manner without any content aspect are probably ok
"If you want free speech, get out of the US!"
Now the government can do whatever it pleases. It's just a single place, after all...
Don't forget the prison-industrial complex buying and pushing 'law and order' politicians that then privatize incarceration (because government employees are to be eliminated) and increase their profits.
Yes, Pakistani judges frequently rule for the rule of law... and just as frequently get ignored (or far, far worse) by both the military junta of the day and the murderously pious.
I am actually happy about this ruling because MS is a major pusher of software patents. This spreads the pain back to them. Perhaps they'll decipher a market signal in that pain.
.. and everything is measured in multiple Hitlers
So car analogies should then readjusted to something that uses 'panzers' as standard units?
I'm sorry, I missed the part of the Constitution that said "All provisions and amendments of this document are to be suspended during any period when the President says the country is at war."
What political party do you join when you don't like Bible-thumpers *or* hippies?
No no no, the Slashmittee would never lower an Apple product. I heard it went up to 11 Hitlers and 1 Third Reich.
...all of the members of Pakistan's high court were replaced today, as the previous members all died of, according to the official government report, accidental bullet wounds to the chest and head.
blindly antisocialist = antisocial
Good to know. Thanks. I don't always think everything through all the way. Hence scarred intellect.
The Fox News forums?
Our guys have been asleep at the wheel for the last 10 years. I'm pretty sure at this point that most of the U.S. Justices don't even know there *is* a 4th Amendment, much less what it says.
Actually, to the surprise of quite a few observers (myself included), the Supreme Court just unanimously ruled that law enforcement agencies can't simply slap a GPS tracker on your car without a warrant. The majority's ruling was actually relatively limited, but was based on 4th Amendment grounds. Alito and several of the liberals actually pushed for an even broader decision. God knows the SC tends to favor the government in too many cases, but this was about as clear a victory for protection against unreasonable search and seizure as we've seen in a long time.
I missed the part of the Constitution that said "All provisions and amendments of this document are to be suspended during any period when the President says the country is at war."
Especially, when it seems your nation is always at war with someone or something.
"Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit