Slashdot Mirror


Patent Granted on Mandatory Digital Keys to Prevent Textbook Piracy

First time accepted submitter discussM tipped us to a story about a recently granted patent in which "a system and method preventing unauthorized access to copyrighted academic texts is provided in which trademark licenses, discussion boards, and grade content are integrated into a web-based system that aligns the interests of teaching professionals, students, and publishers while also enhancing the overarching academic mission to create and disseminate knowledge." Quoting Torrent Freak: "As part of a course, students will have to participate in a web-based discussion board, an activity which counts towards their final grade. To gain access to the board students need a special code, which they get by buying the associated textbook." But don't worry too much, from Ars: "Beyond the legal questions, other experts suggested forcing students to buy texts through such a system is unlikely to be implemented. Professors have few incentives to make it more difficult and to compel students even more than they already are to buy textbooks, digital or analog. (A 2011 survey from UC Riverside found that 78 percent of undergraduates 'bought fewer books, bought cheaper books or read books on reserve to help meet expenses.')"

168 comments

  1. Profs and books by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    They ought to ask how many professors bought all the textbooks they required as students, and never used photocopies.

    1. Re:Profs and books by murder_face · · Score: 1

      They ought to ask how many professors WROTE the textbooks that they are requiring students to buy. I'm not sure about other places, but at the community college that my wife attends 85% of the books that she has been required to purchase have been written by the professor teaching the class. Call me naive, but isn't that kind of a conflict of interest?

    2. Re:Profs and books by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Check into it and get back to us. Specifically, get the titles of those books and check availability, and see if any colleges anywhere else list them.

      If you find a vanity-press system where a publisher is doing small runs (easily done these days) for individual college-professor sets, you've got a story we want to hear about.

      But keep in mind a /lot/ of texts "by" instructors I've seen are just collections of public domain works (and often grey-area out-of-print) tailored to the course they teach. Run some searches on body text of the examples you have on hand.

    3. Re:Profs and books by LSDelirious · · Score: 3, Interesting

      My Organic Chemistry professor "published" his lab manual. For ~$125, you got a shitty spiral type clip bound stack of photocopies. The Lab Manual was not only required for the course, but required to be out at all times during lab procedures, and in several places we were required to write in notes & answers to questions (in addition to our own hand written lab books), then rip out those pages and turn them in... so there was no reselling the book back at the end of the semester. Basically he charged us double the (then) cost of the course tuition to buy his xerox handouts from him. Talk about a fucking ripoff!

      --
      Slavery is the legal fiction that a person is property; A Corporation is the legal fiction that property is a person.
    4. Re:Profs and books by Chrisq · · Score: 1

      They ought to ask how many professors WROTE the textbooks that they are requiring students to buy. I'm not sure about other places, but at the community college that my wife attends 85% of the books that she has been required to purchase have been written by the professor teaching the class. Call me naive, but isn't that kind of a conflict of interest?

      When I was at University the only textbooks written by the professor were widely used and published ones. He also was very careful to offer alternatives, though he dis say that his courses followed the structure of his books and with alternatives you would be jumping around more.

    5. Re:Profs and books by azalin · · Score: 1

      The where four variations on that scheme common in our university (at least for cs, math and physics). 1) Folder placed in library with current script for copying (cost of photocopies) 2) Common book list most of which where available from the library in large (though not always large enough) quantities (free) 3) Printed and bound script available through the secretary roughly at printing cost (5-10 bucks) 4) Regular books written by the professor available in the bookstore (40-80 bucks plus). The fourth happened rarely and every time it did happen you could get a discount card from the professor. That card reduced the book's price by his share (and some more I guess), so he made no extra money by requiring his book(s).

    6. Re:Profs and books by History's+Coming+To · · Score: 2

      I used to work for a bookshop specialising in academic books. We produced specialist textbooks for some courses at the professors request - eg chapters 9-12 from "Fundamentals of Physics", 1-3 of "Div, Grad, Curl" and 4-7 from "Elementary Matrix Algebra" (made up example). It all depended on the various publishers playing ball and allowing us to use their material. We also did textbook rental by the month.

      Personally I don't believe DRM is going to work. The music industry couldn't get it to work and books are easier to copy than music. If I was a publisher I'd simply flood the torrent sites with subtly faulty versions of my books.

      --
      Please consider this account deleted, I just can't be bothered with the spam anymore.
    7. Re:Profs and books by firex726 · · Score: 1

      Colleges should make this type of practice public beforehand. It'd certainly a part in my decision to attend or not.

    8. Re:Profs and books by morgauxo · · Score: 1

      Ah but I loved those classes. Professors that write their own textbooks tend to actually follow them. As a visual learner it is so much easier to just read the book than to try to get the information in class. Then class time can be used for more productive things like asking questions about the less clear parts. I'll gladly pay extra for that. Probably no such advantage for the people who learn better by word of mouth but then they get enough advantages in school.

    9. Re:Profs and books by jedidiah · · Score: 2

      I had a class in college where the textbook was written by the professor teaching the course. The textbook was so poorly written that he pretty had to abandon it even for his own class.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    10. Re:Profs and books by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      When I was in school, only one of my textbooks was written by the instructor. However, it was an excellent book and I still have it.

    11. Re:Profs and books by polgair · · Score: 1

      Most university policies demand that a professor cannot take a cut from selling his own work for his classes. It's a pretty big deal. Most of the time it is because he boot strapped his lesson plan from ground up and didn't really want to change it around with what the text books are offering. As far as I understand it, it's mostly a labor of love.

    12. Re:Profs and books by bitingduck · · Score: 1

      In 4 years of undergrad and 6 years of grad school at major universities, I never once had a class where the professor wrote the textbook. I did use a textbook as an undergrad that was written by one of the faculty where I went to grad school. He did use it for his class when he taught it, but not all of the faculty who taught the same class did. It was quite a good book and not particularly expensive, and wasn't regularly revised just to have new problems sets-- it was a senior level quantum mechanics text.

      In some cases (not sure how many) faculty don't get royalties on copies of their books that are sold on their own campus in order to prevent this sort of thing.

    13. Re:Profs and books by bitingduck · · Score: 1

      I've heard this as well from someone who has written a textbook. Many places don't allow them to collect royalties for copies sold on their own campus, not just for their own classes. And the pay that they get is close to nothing. My friend got a very small advance relative to the amount of work it was, and then had to pay her own copy editor because the publishing house offshored the editing and they introduced huge numbers of errors.

    14. Re:Profs and books by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This question (how many profs bought their books) is not relevant to a discussion of piracy as publishers provide copies to faculty free of charge. (One might surmise this is done as an incentive to get them to adopt a given text - but no matter) In my experience (as a tenured university prof) the "upgrades" to texts in the technology (computing, etc) field are occasionally useful (think of the advancements in networks, programming languages, security, forensics...) Updates to texts in fields where the content does NOT change (e.g. math, chemistry, classic literature, languages...) are typically re-organization of the material to adopt new pedagogical methods. In other words, presenting the same material in a different order as data has shown that this new order may increase comprehension and/or retention of the material presented.

  2. Knowledge by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Knowledge is power, hide it well.

  3. Free Curriculum Foundation? by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 2

    How come good free curriculum hasn't emerged? There are a few free curriculum projects out there, but they tend to have low quality, incompatible formats, and make it difficult for people to contribute.

    1. Re:Free Curriculum Foundation? by __aaltlg1547 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      How come good free curriculum hasn't emerged? There are a few free curriculum projects out there, but they tend to have low quality, incompatible formats, and make it difficult for people to contribute.

      Because there's not incentive for professors and other professionals to participate in the development of such. If you wanted it to happen, you'd make the professors' pay or tenure contingent on their contributing to the development of public-domain curriculum in their discipline.

    2. Re:Free Curriculum Foundation? by khipu · · Score: 5, Insightful

      There are plenty of good, free and low-cost textbooks, and many professors use them.

      But, given that students are willing to pay tens of thousands per year to go to college in the first place, a few hundreds dollars in books hardly make a big difference.

    3. Re:Free Curriculum Foundation? by meerling · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I know two professors, one in math, currently working on open source text books at my local college. I know the math prof is looking for a stable book (not reshuffling the order of the problems and calling it a new edition), the ability to correct errors (some of these books have had the same blatant errors for over a decade), the ability to customize for your curriculum (the regular publishers won't even fix obvious errors, so nobody expects them to listen to requests/suggestions), and a reasonable cost (whatever printing costs if you don't have a laptop or something since $120 for a math book loaded with errors is INSANE.)

      There are plenty of free or open source textbooks listed if you search, and whether it's appropriate for your class depends on your requirements. Other than that, I can't say anything about the quality of all of them, only the half dozen I've reviewed which looked just fine, but the teachers hadn't gone through them yet.

    4. Re:Free Curriculum Foundation? by Darkness404 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It has, the classroom method for instruction and knowledge is dead. It died when the internet came about. The thing is though, college is not about instruction it is about getting a piece of paper to get hired (or an experience).

      Just about every single skill can be learned for free online. Want to know about British history? Identify Roman coins? Learn C#? You can find that for free online. Unless you have a degree though, chances are you aren't going to make it past the first round of screening HR does.

      --
      Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    5. Re:Free Curriculum Foundation? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You don't go to a four-year college to learn a skill... if that's what you're after, you're missing the point.

      Everything I've seen in open course ware teaches introductory material at most. Yes, you can learn C# on-line. But knowing a language and knowing how to work in a team or make high quality software come only through doing it. You can go through a trial by fire by working with an open source project, or go to a university and have a professor facilitate a project, evaluating you along the way and correcting your misconceptions before it's too late.

      University isn't about sticking around for four years and then "knowing how to program". It's about developing higher-order thinking skills, intuition, professional interpersonal skills, and the ability to accurately evaluate oneself and others. The classroom method is dead because professors don't give a damn about teaching students these sorts of things anymore. The Internet had nothing to do with it.

    6. Re:Free Curriculum Foundation? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One university at least is trying to address this - Minnesota is working on collecting reviews of open-source texts -
        Conventional textbooks have the advantage of a marketing department alerting departments around the country of their latest offerings, they also have the advantage of professors opting for what they are familiar with - either in previous semesters or in their own undergraduate/TA days. If a high quality open source text emerges, this database might help it spread. A lot of the current ones I've seen are out of print texts from retiring faculty, which may or may not be the best quality. I'm hopeful that in a decade intro course texts will appear of comparable quality to commercial offerings, but keep in mind that the standard Calculus and other intro course books have had decades to become entrenched and digital textbooks which enable open source solutions are still in their infancy.

    7. Re:Free Curriculum Foundation? by progician · · Score: 4, Informative

      You are right, but then it would make sense that Universities, instead of costing the price of a family house, would transform to a professional social network, where individuals with different skills could organize different study groups, and academic reference would be the list of workgroups with their freely available, freely usable published results, depending on the field.

      It is insane to see that while the cost of distributing information is rapidly falling, the costs of education is steadily growing.

    8. Re:Free Curriculum Foundation? by hexagonc · · Score: 1

      But, given that students are willing to pay tens of thousands per year to go to college in the first place, a few hundreds dollars in books hardly make a big difference.

      Yes, but the majority of those tens of thousands will be covered by some combination of big loans, grants, or parents and will be paid back over a period of years. The cost of textbooks are felt much sooner; their costs come out of the fun and booze budget.

    9. Re:Free Curriculum Foundation? by supercrisp · · Score: 3, Interesting

      You don't have to make tenure and promotion "contingent" upon developing public-domain materials. You can just encourage it by allowing such work to count toward tenure. Such work is very time-consuming, especially if you're doing it for some form of publication because you have to make sure you're not infringing and that the work is near enough to perfect that it doesn't make you or the institution look bad in some way. All too often preparation of teaching materials counts for little or nothing, and the publication of online or free stuff or self-published stuff isn't regarded as counting for much. Frankly it often doesn't; it's just too easy for a lazy person to "publish" some twaddle as they look for promotion. So, in addition to allowing this stuff to count toward t&p, you also need some editorial oversight, which means you need some institution to pay for the people who will be doing that work, even if that "pay" is just release time.

    10. Re:Free Curriculum Foundation? by supercrisp · · Score: 2

      I've looked through textbooks in english and composition, and they're not very useful because so much of what you teach is protected in some way. And the sort of things that can be published, grammar guides and such, still aren't all that great. This area of endeavor is in its infancy. And I'm glad to see so many younger people interested in it. I look forward to seeing you all invest your time and energy in helping to produce high-quality, open access instructional materials.

    11. Re:Free Curriculum Foundation? by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      Just about every single skill can be learned for free online.

      Nothing has changed except now you don't have to drive. Before the internet you only had to go to the public library. That's where I learned electronics in the '60s (that and hacking around) and computers in the '80s. Any good encyclopedia would give you a start on a subject, with cited sources you could use to examine the subject in greater detail. I probably read 500 books on computing (including the TTL Cookbook) before I had a real handle on them.

      It would have been a lot easier learning assembly if I'd had someone knowledgable to ask questions of. That's where college shines. Instead, it was trial and error and very time-consuming.

      Odd that you got modded insightful when you would know this if you'd ever been to college. If you have gone to college, your college really sucked bad and you should tell us which one, so slashdotters getting ready to attend can avoid it.

    12. Re:Free Curriculum Foundation? by __aaltlg1547 · · Score: 1

      And there's the other end of the problem: school boards are constantly lobbied by the textbook publishers. There's nobody to push the free texts.

  4. Wow, nice. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    More DRM nonsense. Stop being so paranoid about piracy that you hurt your own customers.

    1. Re:Wow, nice. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Then I sure hope people have a "right" to remove any nonsensical DRM and use their own property in any way they wish. After someone has bought it from you, you're powerless (or should be, but remember, so-called "rights" can be given or taken away).

    2. Re:Wow, nice. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your rights extend as far as your nose.

    3. Re:Wow, nice. by icebike · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Authors have a *right* to direct how their work is used.

      Not content with the right to control sales, now they want you to prove you bought it
      in order to take the class.

      What happens when roommates decide to share the book? Will they let two students register
      with the same book id number for the useless on-line material (which only exists to get your book ID number)?

      I shared several books with a roomie in college, because we took the courses at different time of the day.
      The hall book-handoff was a daily ritual. We split the price of the book, and resold it splitting the proceeds.

      If this scheme locks out Book IDs that were used previously, what happens to the first sale doctrine?

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    4. Re:Wow, nice. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then I sure hope people have a "right" to remove any nonsensical DRM and use their own property in any way they wish.

      Of course the rights of the customer are respected. That's why the books aren't sold, but licensed. The license is, of course, non-transferable.

    5. Re:Wow, nice. by sjames · · Score: 1

      Since when? They have a granted right to be the sole source of copies for a limited time, but that is a bargain with the public, not a natural right. They do NOT have a right to decide how the work is used.If I want to buy a copy of your finely crafted magnum opus and run it through the Swedish Chef filter, that's *MY* right. If you don't like it, don't sell copies of your book, ever.

    6. Re:Wow, nice. by Fjandr · · Score: 3, Informative

      At least according to the 9th Circuit in Vernor v. Autodesk, there is no first sale doctrine if the transaction includes a licensing agreement which substantially restricts (such as prohibiting subsequent transfer of the access license) the rights of the purchaser. All this, even if the transaction is treated as a straight-up sale in all other regards by both parties (full upfront payment with no obligation to return the material after a time, and no further obligations on the part of the seller).

      As a result, any sale can be converted to a license simply by posting a licensing agreement which includes restrictive terms. This latter part is not idle speculation, but is actually specifically noted by the 9th Circuit order. Given that the 9th Circuit declined an en banc hearing on the results and SCOTUS declined certiorari, the ruling will stand unchallenged until the unlikely event that another Circuit issues an opposing ruling. Given that the US judiciary has evolved from ruling on function (looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, probably a duck) over form (looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, appellant claims it's a cat, probably a cat), it's unlikely SCOTUS would reverse this ruling even if it somehow ends up in front of them though.

    7. Re:Wow, nice. by Fjandr · · Score: 2

      Since when?

      Since Sept 10th, 2010.

      Vernor v. Autodesk, Inc., 621 F. 3d 1102 - 2010

    8. Re:Wow, nice. by icebike · · Score: 1

      Book sales are not the same as software.

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    9. Re:Wow, nice. by Fjandr · · Score: 4, Informative

      I agree. The 9th Circuit judges who heard the case I listed do not.

      Specifically:

      The ALA fears that the software industry’s licensing practices could be adopted by other copyright owners, including book publishers, record
      labels, and movie studios.

      These are serious contentions on both sides, but they do not alter our conclusion that our precedent from Wise through the MAI trio requires the result we reach. Congress is free, of course, to modify the first sale doctrine and the essential step defense if it deems these or other policy considerations to require a different approach.

      The Court tacitly agrees with the ALA's claims as to the potential effects of the ruling on other media should the licensing practices of the software industry be adopted by other distributors outside the software industry. Book sales are only different because the use of licensing has not been adopted. Without Congressional intervention, book and video sellers are free to adopt the conventions of software licensing and end secondary markets.

    10. Re:Wow, nice. by supercrisp · · Score: 2

      Keep in mind that "they" is not the faculty member. It's the publisher. The publishers sucker faculty into these deals with promises that aren't kept. For example one major publisher told my department two years ago that if the department signed a two-year contract, they'd get this wonderful system with grade tracking, self-grading exercises, wonderful textbooks, an integrated clicker system, and all of it would integrate with Blackboard and our online grade entry system. All we had to do was require our students to buy an expensive text with one of these serial numbers you use to log into the fabulous educational wonderland that the publisher was providing. So we did that. And very little of that online stuff worked, and the publisher's rep couldn't do anything about it but wave her hands around and make empty promises. So I contacted a friend in the industry, who works for a competing publisher, and he told me that this is pretty common across the board, even in his company. And that the idea is "vertical integration" and that the end goal is moving all the content--including faculty content--to packages the publishers can sell. I could continue to rant about this, but I will only say that our department dropped this previous publisher like a hot rock this year when the contract expired, and we're no longer using any books that come with these phony baloney serial numbers, and the texts we're requiring all cost about half of the one from that previous publisher.

    11. Re:Wow, nice. by perceptual.cyclotron · · Score: 1
      Sounds about right.

      Academic texts are already so painfully inbred that you'll encounter minor tweaks of the same examples and diagrams in just about every publisher's version. But of course, in the drive towards profits, they iteratively condense and paraphrase each other to make new editions each year, and the end result is material that's either grotesquely confused by efforts to avoid direct plagiarism, or else made easy to understand by sacrificing any semblance of accuracy.

      These books are meant to help people learn. When, as a lecturer, you frequently have to tell your students to ignore certain parts of the book because they're inaccurate, or you have to cross-check all the in-text figures against the original source figures to make sure they haven't been 'simplified' into falsehood, you know there's a problem.

      As always, getting rid of the middle-man would be a tremendous help to everyone.

  5. Students are PAYING CUSTOMERS and should demand... by couchslug · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ...Free and Open textbooks for all their courses.

    School is PURELY a financial transaction, but schools want to fuck their customers good and hard. (I found working in a community college highly educational.) They want to make programs fit available funding, and Pell Grant farming is standard.

    The profits made on books are calculated as part of the profit of each program. They are NOT provided by the school book store as a convenience, unless you consider anal rape convenient.

    --
    "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
  6. Course fees? by SurfaceMount · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Whatever happened to just charging a fee for attending the course?
    Stop trying to make extra money through textbook "upsells". Be upfront and honest by charging the book fee as part of the upfront course fees and give each student a copy.

    1. Re:Course fees? by couchslug · · Score: 3, Informative

      Unless customers DEMAND change it won't happen because book sales are highly profitable.

      College is a business. Business is war.

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
    2. Re:Course fees? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We had paid textbooks as part of out course fee. However the professor just created custom text book with chapters they thought were relevant. This means the text book for cheap for the college ( even though they charged the full fee). The textbook still does not make sense unless you have the missing chapters.

    3. Re:Course fees? by Githaron · · Score: 3, Interesting

      When I was in college, I bought all my books online with most of them being brand new at half the price the college bookstore was charging for used. That said, most of the books were still ridiculously expensive. The reason colleges get away with their high book prices is because many of the students are getting their books paid for by the government or parents.

    4. Re:Course fees? by lahvak · · Score: 2

      You are (most of the time) talking about different entities extracting the fees. Tuition money goes to the college. The money you pay for a textbook goes to the textbook publisher.

      Back when price of textbooks were reasonable, professors would select textbooks according to their contents. Since in some areas there are many textbooks with comparable contents, publishers started competing in providing "perks" to teachers with their textbook: a test generator, an online gradebook, an online homework system etc. Now there are teachers who select textbook not so much by contents, but by availability of such "additions". Now publishers are trying to abuse this system to stop people from byuing what they call "pirated" (meaning used) textbooks. Some professors are not aware of that, and the publishers keep using the "additions" and "perks" to trick them into selecting such textbooks. Some of us are very aware of that problem, and refuse to ever assign a book like that. I have never heard about a professor or a college actually conspiring with a publisher in order to extract more money from students. It may actually be illegeal to do so.

      --
      AccountKiller
    5. Re:Course fees? by sdnoob · · Score: 1

      there are some colleges that loan out textbooks like a grade school or high school does, or that charge modest rental fees (a fraction of what even a used copy would sell for) so you don't have to buy them if you don't want (or can't afford) to.

      the reason that colleges don't just give them out as part of tuition is that tuition can be paid by scholarships, grants and other aid. it wouldn't really be right if students could sell those 'free' books, converting some of their financial aid to cash, to buy more beer instead of putting the proceeds back into their education which is what the aid is for (and no, kegs are not a legitimate education expense).

    6. Re:Course fees? by Fjandr · · Score: 1

      The money you pay for a textbook goes to the textbook publisher.

      Only partially true. Most colleges drastically mark up the price of textbooks, and the above ignores the vast quantity of used textbooks they purchase for 10% of cost and resell for 90% of new.

      It also ignores the practice of professors creating custom, very non-professional texts for their classes and splitting the profits with the college. These are texts which cannot be obtained anywhere else, and are frequently packaged in such a way that they are not re-usable (tear-out assignments being a favorite trick).

    7. Re:Course fees? by Fjandr · · Score: 1

      Also, of the dozen or so colleges I'm at least passingly familiar with, all require professors to list at least one text even if the class is structured so one is not necessary. The better professors of those particular classes would inform the students on the first day that purchasing the text was optional even if the course guide claimed it was mandatory. This didn't help those who had purchased a new text and taken the shrinkwrap off before the first day of class though. Instant 25-30% deduction from the return price at the college bookstore.

    8. Re:Course fees? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      College textbook stores are rather inefficient when viewed as independent businesses - their business is largely conducted over a week or so each semester, and they must have a large enough inventory to satisfy demand regardless of how much it ebbs and flows during drop/add in most cases. It also has to deal with the free-riders who buy texts then return after ordering online during drop/add, requiring them to be returned to the publisher or stored until the next semester. They also don't order in quantities to get Amazon/B&N type discounts.

      With regard to the used book racket, it is more commonly 10-20% purchase vs 60-70% sale price. This amounts to ~$50 disparity for a $100 textbook. This is not unreasonable given the risk to the bookstore of a change in edition sticking them with 'expired' stock and paying for staff and storage space.

      With regard to course packs, suppose a $0.10/page charge to print and bind a 400 page course pack. That's $40 right there. Raise that by 50% to cover the cost of unsold copies (they have to print enough for full enrollment) and then whatever rights charge is required for the base documents.

      These textbooks cost a lot relative to the average novel, but when you analyze the costs of the system, it makes a lot of sense.

    9. Re:Course fees? by firex726 · · Score: 1

      Yea, if I'm selling a widget for $5, and someone comes along and gives everyone $10 to buy my widget, then I am going to up my price to $10.

    10. Re:Course fees? by azadrozny · · Score: 1

      Doesn't that give you less flexibility as a student? Many people have pointed out that you can often buy books online, or from a friend who recently took the course much cheaper. You also might be able to share with a roommate. Some professors might make the book optional, or tell you that an older version is still OK to use. In addition, if everyone is given a copy, there will be little or no demand for resale. I kept some books from school, but I sold most because I had no reason or desire to keep the book.

    11. Re:Course fees? by berashith · · Score: 1

      I try to buy online, but keep getting screwed by these specific versions. I often dont even know about the version until teh first day of class when the syllabus is handed out. So, if I take the initiative to find the book before class starts, I get the added bonus of buying it again for a code. In saving money this way, I end up not having the book for several classes, and getting to buy the thing twice. I dont know why the summary says that this is not likely to happen, as it has happened to me three times in the last year.

      One of these times it wasnt a code, but there is an "international" version of the same book that was available for $35 instead of $150. I bought it , and the prof said that the version had different questions in it, and the homework may not match up. No one knows who told him that , but I compared it to another student, and the questions were the same. I think it was the boilerplate answer to why a specific version was needed. I got to save the money on that one.

    12. Re:Course fees? by threecolorable · · Score: 1

      The $100+ custom textbook for a language course I'm currently taking has those tear-out assignments. The worst thing about it is that the worksheet pages usually also have useful content on them (e.g. the book's only explanation of the rules for using a certain verb tense). So in addition to not being able to resell the book, you also can't review anything or use the book as a reference in the future. It's completely absurd.

    13. Re:Course fees? by Fjandr · · Score: 1

      Agreed with many points, but none of those actually support the original statement I was disagreeing with. That money still does not go to the publisher.

      Only in the case of purchase-size discounts would there be a differential, and I would have to see real data on large university purchases vs Amazon/B&N purchases before assuming the latter are far larger in general, for every current edition text in common use in US universities.

      As for custom binding and printing, they're more likely to be workbooks rarely topping 50-100 pages. Black and white duplex printing and automated binding does not cost $0.10/page unless you're doing it at the retail level unless you're doing one-offs or you're really getting screwed. It also does not make sense, unless you are trying to inflate sales, to incorporate destructive elements into a custom book. By pulling out the destructive elements, the burden on students is decreased related to costs, the burden on the school is decreased in infrastructure, equipment, distribution, and stock needs, and the professor can focus on moonlighting somewhere else where they're not selling their work to an audience who is compelled to buy it after entering the general lock-in that comes with picking a university to attend. They can still sell some smaller subset of copies (not everyone returns books, or keeps them intact enough to return), and they still can sell a (much smaller) workbook to every student every semester. That is, if they actually care about the students more than they care about the perks of a guaranteed market.

  7. books? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Of the 40+ textbooks I was told were required throughout my undergrad years I bought about 4 used, 1 new, rented 2, and never bothered with the rest. I had a 3.5 gpa average by actually attending class each day. It cost over $110,000 for 4 years of out of state tuition, IMHO books should come with that. $0.02

  8. Failure is guaranteed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Two basic facts:

    (1) Bits cannot be made uncopyable. If you can read it, then you can copy it. No fancy patented scheme can prevent that. There are no exceptions.

    (2) If encryption is used for this, then that means that encryption technology is being misapplied. If you give both the message and the key to the untrusted party, then you have a fundamental misunderstanding of what encryption is used for.

    1. Re:Failure is guaranteed by nurb432 · · Score: 1

      The goal is to make the bar to high for the casual 'infringer'. that it causes grief for customers, or that the hard core will still do it, isn't part of their concern.

      And yes, it can be done, once the very hardware itsself to view and copy is locked down. ( think mandatory TPM )

      --
      ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    2. Re:Failure is guaranteed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And yes, it can be done, once the very hardware itsself to view and copy is locked down. ( think mandatory TPM )

      I'm tired of this. Didn't you read the post you replied to? Please tell me what kind of "mandatory TPM" device you have in mind that enables my eyes to read a text but not a camera. Please, do tell.

    3. Re:Failure is guaranteed by mlts · · Score: 2

      My cynical self says that is true, but I remember in the past people saying that Internet censorship was impossible. Now, it is commonplace.

      I wouldn't be surprised if there is a son-of-ACTA bill brewing, where it wouldn't just do encryption, but signatures, so if something detects an unencrypted item (music/book/video/program), it would shut the device down, phone home, and call the local popo on a "IP tampering" violation.

      DRM is improving. It took a long time for the iPhone 4s to be jailbroken. It took almost five years for any type of action to crack the PS3. Blu-Ray is still a cat and mouse game.

      With a law and reactive infrastructure in place that would not just disable devices that are tampered with (think XBL bans), but also accounts. Then add criminal penalties onto it, and it wouldn't be surprising to see something put into place that would be robust without any cracks.

      Yes, in theory, having Bob and Charlie be the same person is wrong, but throw enough tamper-resistant hardware at the problem, and it will work, just like how deploying censorware has effectively worked.

    4. Re:Failure is guaranteed by lister+king+of+smeg · · Score: 1

      but the casual infringer can still download the copy the dude with talent ripped the drm out of or he can use the analog hole and ocr the book like people have been doing for years, or he could take a screen shot of each page of the book. this is just half-assed drm scheme that doesn't do any good anyway.

      --
      ---Saying gnome 3 is better than windows 8 not so much a compliment as it is damning with light praise.
    5. Re:Failure is guaranteed by progician · · Score: 1

      Criminal laws and penalties do not stop anything as we could learn from the drug business. They just simply create an off-the-grid infrastructure, and depending of the popularity of the products it will grow to a bunch of alternative grids by themselves. Trading marijuana is illegal in many countries, however it is sometimes easier to get pot than to send a postcard to anyone.

      DRM is making license agreement about the direction of gravity. No matter, what kind of technique you use for protecting your content, your content will be exposed at the moment of use by one user, and hence it will be recorded and distributed. Cracking DRM schemes is banal: in case of books you can make just a simple screenshot or a camera shot if the device is locked. In case of games it's a bit trickier, but only bit, because the physical device is at hand thus can be messed with. But sooner or later customers will recognize at large that the price they have to pay for content has almost nothing to do with compensating the author of the content but about protecting the content from the customer. The more complicated the DRM scheme the more it costs.

      And as it is already a growing trend to realise, that over all cost information tend to the limit of its distribution, and that is rapidly falling, more and more content makers will realise, that they have a bigger audience if they don't place their stuff under heavily restricted access (I mean, it's not underground, we are talking about Cory Doctorow and alikes). This is a fight which will eventually eliminate any commercial content provider. It's the tale of evolution really.

    6. Re:Failure is guaranteed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One can look at the drug business, and realize that that is how we can end up. In the US, most of our prison system is privatized with an agreement signed by 48 states to guarantee the two private prison companies 90% bed occupancy.

      Enforcing DRM with 5-20 years in a prison not just sets an example, but is easily implemented due to pressure on politicians to toss more people in prison, as if they don't lock people up, the next candidate who gets election funding will.

      DRM and the Internet isn't like the decentralized world of selling dime bags at the street corners. There are major hubs and ISPs that control the horizontal and vertical on the Internet, with no way around them. The days of routing around censorship are long past.

      It would be trivial for a law to require ISPs to use a NAC-like system that is enforced through routers, where if a device is connected to the Internet, it must have a DRM stack and a special ID number similar to the ID on SIM cards. No dedicated key, no Internet access.

      With this in place, it is quite easy to have a DRM enforcing stack in place in hardware. Not just locking out content, but automatically searching for cracks and decrypted content, then uploading the findings and having that device banned from the Net, as well as possibly the user associated with it.

      Picture a tool in a signed BIOS similar to Norton Antivirus that receives signatures constantly, but instead of malware, it searches for crack tools, be it RedSn0w, patches to games, or even a debug utility like SoftICE. This is pretty feasible, and it would could be implementable in BIOS (where the machine snapshots RAM, does a fast scan at random times, then if it notices a positive, the machine phones home and shuts down.)

    7. Re:Failure is guaranteed by Travelsonic · · Score: 1

      The only problem with that thinking is, in my opinion of course, it isn't realistic only in that people with the technical know-how will - eventually - make it so the common man can do it too, in the form of a easy to use program that automates the brunt of the work.

      --
      If you believe in privacy, and believe you have "nothing to hide" at the same time, you're a goddammed idiot
  9. Dont buy the books by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    For many of the courses I did we were told that certain books were good to read if you wanted to know more about the topic, but that the course could be completed with just the slides.
    In other cases we got copies of the book because it had been out of print for 15 years.
    Some courses didn't even bother with books and everything was just the slides and old exams.
    I think only bought 2 books for school that I still check from time to time, and around 5 or so that I used extensively for the course itself.
    Generally I think that after the first year most people only bought the books if it turned out the course was impossible to follow without it after several lectures.

  10. Not likely to happen... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This seems unlikely to gain traction in educational institutions for a number of reasons. At UCSD, most of the professors I've encountered are just as interested as the students in keeping cost of materials down. Most professors post the full text of the problem sets on class websites, so that they are independent of which edition of a textbook (if any) students purchase. Some professors state that the textbook is recommended, but not required, as their lectures are self-contained.

    1. Re:Not likely to happen... by threecolorable · · Score: 1

      Most of my professors have been careful to keep textbook costs as low as possible. A number of them have mentioned trying to choose books which are affordable and/or available used. One of them wrote the textbook he uses for his intro class, but distributes it for free. Quite a few of my classes in the social sciences didn't require a textbook at all--instead they used articles from academic journals and scanned excerpts from books which were uploaded to course websites. For classes within my majors, I can only think of two occasions when I had to buy textbooks written by the professor and I think that both of those were justified--there weren't any other books available that covered the same topic and the books were reasonably priced.

      The exception here seems the foreign language classes--the textbook I used for the first three semesters of French cost about $200 and was written by a faculty member. Additionally, all of the homework was through the publisher's website, so you had to by a $50 access code each semester.

  11. Colleges already doing it! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    North Georgia college in Dahlonega is already doing it!! My daughter had to buy a specific text book, with an access code, for her online medical terminology course this summer...

  12. Oh, and world peace too. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Not surprisingly, Rick Falkvinge, the founder of the Pirate Party, says he's also against such a system.

    "The notion that academics go to lengths to prevent the spread of knowledge comes close to sacrilegious," he wrote in an e-mail to Ars. "In particular, it is a complete conflict of interest between the profits of old-guard publishers and the real mission of academia—to spread knowledge as widely as possible."

    The high cost of education in general prevents the "wide spread of knowledge" as well.

  13. Re:Students are PAYING CUSTOMERS and should demand by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    ...Free and Open textbooks for all their courses.

    This is exactly what OpenStax College Physics is providing: a popular but out of print textbook that was picked up by a couple of charitable organization (incl. Bill & Melinda Gates, I admit) and republished under a Creative Commons license. I will teach 170 pre-med students from this 'textbook' in the fall.

    I do disagree vehemently with the rest of your comment!

  14. Old news by Eightbitgnosis · · Score: 4, Informative

    I'm in my sophomore year of college, and I've already taken half a dozen classes requiring an $80 online pass.

    1. Re:Old news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Yes, as a recent grad I can tell you they already do this. And they have a huge incentive. College professors can now assign mountains of homework that grades itself.

    2. Re:Old news by EmperorArthur · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I'm right there with you.

      I've had several courses were all the homework was online. You could not pass the class without a code that came with a new textbook.

      Of course you could buy that code separately, but it cost half as much as the textbook itself. This is very similar to game companies using online passes to attempt to get rid of the used market.

      One other thing I should mention about all of these online homework systems. They SUCK. I have yet to see a truly good implementation of such a system. I'm not disparaging online homework or anything like that, but it's obvious that whoever designs these things doesn't understand education. Don't even get me started on the lack of partial credit for upper level physics problems. Fortunately, websites like Khan Academy are coming out with tools that are easy to use, and replace the traditional homework system. They're even managing to do it without earning the hate of every college student forced to put up with this crap.

      --
      So lets pretend that we've just completed writing this code, as opposed to having just completed sabotaging it -Altera
  15. "Professors have few incentives... by rsilvergun · · Score: 2

    ...to make it more difficult and to compel students even more than they already are to buy textbooks"

    Bwahahahahahahahahahahaha!

    Oh God... he was serious, wasn't he?

    Uh, for the record, my bro's French text was a) useless and b) written by the department head. A copy was ordered for each and every student, and they sat in the bookstore all year until the teacher was advised that no one would receive their grades until they were gone because, hey, how could anyone have gotten through the coursework w/o the textbook? Right?

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
    1. Re:"Professors have few incentives... by Githaron · · Score: 2

      The college told you that you wouldn't get a grade if everyone in the class didn't buy a text book written by the teacher? It sounds like you should have gotten a lawyer.

  16. example from an MIT course by e**(i+pi)-1 · · Score: 1

    Anant Agarwal recently reported that at the course MIT 6.002 where textbooks are freely available for students, the textbook sales have gone through the roof. Publishers currently learn from such cases. This patent is complete nonsense. No teacher would make financial payments linked to grades.

    1. Re:example from an MIT course by k(wi)r(kipedia) · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No teacher would make financial payments linked to grades.

      That's a very rosy view of the academe you have there. Let me guess, you went to an expensive university where the teachers' salaries are high enough that students' grades are non-"negotiable".

    2. Re:example from an MIT course by Ginger+Unicorn · · Score: 3, Funny

      If internet porn has taught me anything, and it has, it's that you don't need money to negotiate grades with your college professor.

      --
      (1.21 gigawatts) / (88 miles per hour) = 30 757 874 newtons
  17. They ought to ask about prior art by Bozovision · · Score: 1

    Because I suggested something very similar to CMP when Dr Dobbs was failing in slow motion: codes with the magazine to gain access to online resources.

    1. Re:They ought to ask about prior art by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ibm infoMarket (sold in 1999) developed cryptolopes that i think do what
      this patent claims.

      http://domino.research.ibm.com/comm/wwwr_thinkresearch.nsf/pages/packinginfo396.html

  18. News Flash: They already do this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In both of my statistics and all three accounting classes (at two different universities) I had to purchase a bundle that comes with the "access code" for graded assignments. I know the accounting variety was called WileyPlus. This is old news.

  19. Textbook companies are horrible by pegasustonans · · Score: 1

    One of the reasons textbooks are largely reviled in academia is their ability to turn students off, drain their wallet and misinform (in some instances) all at the same time.

    If the textbook industry implodes, I think celebration is in order. The quality and cost of education would likely improve.

    --
    And all our yesterdays have lighted fools The way to dusty death. --Will
    1. Re:Textbook companies are horrible by Nerdfest · · Score: 1

      You're forgetting that like the rest of the government, education seems to be heavily controlled by the copyright cartels. How the hell did we let these people get this much money and power?

    2. Re:Textbook companies are horrible by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In Canada, one element of textbook copyrights is the destruction of a digital textbook after a certain number of uses or years. I'm beginning to wonder if a fireman is going to come around and destroy all the textbooks I've accumulated over the years.

    3. Re:Textbook companies are horrible by CanEHdian · · Score: 1

      You're forgetting that like the rest of the government, education seems to be heavily controlled by the copyright cartels. How the hell did we let these people get this much money and power?

      Because we've been giving our money to these people for over 80 years.Not to the artists. To the guy in the middle. Of course they are going to protect themselves: it's way too lucrative where they are.

      There's only ONE thing politicians need more than "campaign donations": votes. Unfortunately, in the US electoral system (first past the post) and the SuperPACs etc, this is going to be hard. But at one point the Internet generations will outnumber the previous generations...

      --
      When the copyright term is "forever minus a day", live every day like it's the last.
  20. drm by Dr.+Tom · · Score: 1

    Ok, so textbooks have DRM now, and education takes place in an MMO
    style arena. So where are the cheat codes? Har. Anyway it's a format most kids
    relate to.

    "Hey you, stop texting in class!"

  21. For Shame by TemperedAlchemist · · Score: 1

    All that illegal learning kids are doing these days. How dare they steal all of that information you own that someone else discovered!

    1. Re:For Shame by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The course I teach uses an online key (Turing's Craft). Obligatory: http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html

    2. Re:For Shame by Dr.+Tom · · Score: 1

      Control the means of delivery and you control the content. We don't want students wandering aimlessly around the internet, after all, learning things like evolution and climate science.

    3. Re:For Shame by betterunixthanunix · · Score: 1

      Exactly what I thought -- as soon as I saw the phrase, "unauthorized access to textbooks," I knew something was wrong. Of course, from the publisher's perspective, and unfortunately from too many schools' perspective, the purpose of textbooks is to make money for publishing companies.

      We need a better way to distribute knowledge, one that is not based on maximizing the profit of people who have every incentive to restrict the flow of knowledge.

      --
      Palm trees and 8
  22. Sounds like Webassign by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It sounds like webassign (for math and physics). You have to buy a key to get access to the website which has your homework. Everyone has the same structured problems, but all the numbers are different. Grading is done instantly when you submit your answer. Students hate it and I would loudly and actively refuse any such system that expanded on it.

    But I also don't understand how linking some software components is an invention.

  23. Wow. by _KiTA_ · · Score: 1

    There's not a single professor I know that would go for this. Especially the "web discussion" part being graded. It seems like a backdoor for publishers to try to co-opt or even replace the professors over time. "Don't hire a professor, sign a contract with us, we'll provide textbooks, grades, tests, the works, all you'll have to do is admin the system on your end."

    "Cloud Classrooms", if you will.

    Several professors do like the WebAssign style online homework systems, but only because TAs are at a premium in my area.

    Fortunately them patenting it means that in effect it will kill the chances of it being used en mass.

    1. Re:Wow. by mjr167 · · Score: 2

      You assume proffessors are there to teach. Teaching is that annoying thing that gets in the way fo thier real job- research and publishing papers.

    2. Re:Wow. by supercrisp · · Score: 1

      Yes, it is an attempt to make faculty obsolete. I interviewed for a professorship at a university last year that made this perfectly clear. I was told that I would be paid a very small amount for developing an online class ($2,300), that I would be required to do so as part of my contracted workload, and that all rights would belong to the university, and that others would teach the course after I developed it. I looked more closely and noticed that people were staying at this place for 3-4 years and then getting their tenure appeal denied. See what's happening? They hire a faculty member, have her develop a few courses in her expertise, paying a pittance and demanding the rights, and then kick her out the door. (Not getting tenure is pretty much getting fired.) I know I'm a sucker; I'm a humanities professor, but I'm not that HUGE a sucker. I backed out of the final interview.

  24. Professors have a reason by nurb432 · · Score: 1

    They do have a reason; kickbacks.

    1/2 the processors wrote the damned text book, so they have a vested interest in making student buy copies.

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    1. Re:Professors have a reason by supercrisp · · Score: 2

      Yeah, because that few bucks you get on a hundred dollar textbook is really worth alienating all your students. The money comes when the textbook is good enough to be adopted by other faculty at other institutions. And check this out: a professor might well write a book that he or she thinks is the best book for the class. There's also a very high incentive not to write a crappy book and look like a dumbass in front of all your colleagues.

  25. As someone who just finished graduate school... by mongoose(!no) · · Score: 1

    I hated this, and only encountered it once, in my Econ 102 class. We had to "buy" the online pass to view the online "textbook", which was really just a document wrapped in a flash applet, with "interactive" homeworks, that expired after 6 months. I asked the professor if he had another alternative, but he said I could always drop the class. Thankfully that was the only class I had to do that for.

    Most other professors, especially within engineering were more than helpful with either giving out the ISBN so we didn't have to go through the bookstore, or in graduate school, had their own notes for the class, so a book wasn't even necessary. One class we were assigned two books that were available as PDFs from the authors, intentionally to be given away, which the professor pointed out. Thankfully in my engineering classes the professors have been helpful about allowing older editions of books or having a low cost alternative such as a compilation of notes. In my general education classes is where I've always encountered the incredibly expensive books that absolutely had to be the latest edition. I think it says something that the engineering books tended to hold up their value more than the books for those other classes, where a $130 english book ended up going back to the bookstore for $1.30. The engineering books were usually worth keeping too, once you got past the intro courses.

    Oh, and the point I came here to make: Having a patent on an idea doesn't make it a good one.

    1. Re:As someone who just finished graduate school... by nurb432 · · Score: 1

      I hated this, and only encountered it once, in my Econ 102 class. We had to "buy" the online pass to view the online "textbook", which was really just a document wrapped in a flash applet, with "interactive" homeworks, that expired after 6 months. I asked the professor if he had another alternative, but he said I could always drop the class.

      Which i would have done, and perhaps even picketed outside the classroom.

      --
      ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    2. Re:As someone who just finished graduate school... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Try saying that when it is a critical class, and transferring to another university would be far greater in time and expense.

      Part of college is handling what the profs shit out in order to get that piece of paper. If people don't realize that, they are the ones without the degree.

    3. Re:As someone who just finished graduate school... by CanEHdian · · Score: 1

      I asked the professor

      Look at you... even now sheltering "the professor". Name and shame, my friend; name and shame.

      --
      When the copyright term is "forever minus a day", live every day like it's the last.
    4. Re:As someone who just finished graduate school... by mjr167 · · Score: 1

      Change your attitude. You are the paying customer. You are paying the school to be taught. This isn't highschool anymore. Once students realize that they are the customer (or should be) and start demanding they get what they pay for and are treated with respect, they will be. I have discovered since starting my graduate program that writing letters to the department heads telling them that your employer is already paying them a shit ton of money and you don't have time to be treated like crap by professors, actually gets the professors reprimanded.

  26. We are already doing this... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I just finished 15 years of teaching at a state community & technical college and in the computer field we are shifting away from printed books to on-line material that is less expensive but does require an access code. The access code is good for three years which should be fine because by that time, a lot of the technical material will be out of date, obsolete, and archived somewhere on the web.

    We are doing this for two reasons: Less cost for the student and more on-line availability. The platform provides video, audio, and printed material that is tied to industry standard curricula as well as kept up to date with most applicable certification tests. It was getting tough to find reasonably priced text books, even on-line, that taught that stuff currently being tested by CompTIA, Cisco, Microsoft, etc...

    Our students currently desire more on-line material. This enables them to make more efficient use of their time in today's networked world. It also allows us to reduce the "seat time" in some courses, freeing up scarce hardware-oriented labs for more hands-on learning. For a four credit course instead of sitting for four hours a week, they sit for maybe two hours a week and spend two hours working on practical applications with an instructor in a lab. They make up the other two hours per week of "lecture" time by going through the on-line stuff.

    On the other hand, at the four-year state university in the same town, many professors are not going this route because they wrote the text books that they "recommend" students purchase for their courses. Being a state school, they are not allowed to require their own products, but students all know that if they want to find the material that will be covered in quizzes, tests, etc... they had better buy the prof's book. With all the work that it takes to put a course on-line, I doubt if these old geezers will go that route anytime soon.

    If I can find material that covers all three main learning styles (watching/listening/reading) consistently and for a reasonable price, why reinvent the wheel or write a new textbook? The package we are currently using runs about $90, or $30 per year of use. Not too bad...

  27. This seems strangely familiar... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html

    Yeah; that'd be it...

  28. Professorss care about learning, not about profits by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Speaking as a professor in engineering, we care about learning. The books chosen for a course are ones we think are best for that course. Unfortunately they are expensive. Professors who write books get paid very little (except maybe unless the book sells many many many copies) but the bookstores and publishers are the ones that make all the money. We would love to have *good* free online books but so far there have not been any in my field that are even worth trying to use. We also care about the cost to students but as there are few good book choices we are pretty much stuck with the available ones, despite the high price.

  29. A Patent for this? by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

    I know that textbooks were selling(shrink wrapped, of course, with some sort of clickwrap EULA sticker) with a code printed inside that granted limited-term access to some sort of online component when I was in undergrad. And that was a vexing number of years ago. Thankfully, none of the professors actually bothered with the enforcement side of that bullshit; but the groundwork was all there and ready to go. Never mind the, less academic but no less trivially equivalent, emerging practice of selling crippled games along with various 'unlock codes' to deter the used game market.

    Not only as this 'invention' in the worst spirit of trampling-on-right-of-first-sale scumsucking, it isn't even remotely novel...

  30. Re:Students are PAYING CUSTOMERS and should demand by karmatic · · Score: 1

    What do you mean by Pell Grant farming?

  31. if the teachers are good enough by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    then the lectures and any visuals they provide should be plenty.

  32. Re:Professorss care about learning, not about prof by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    why do you need the books in the first place? you are there to teach, not be a bridge between student and publisher. your lectures and any visuals you provide ought to be the only thing needed. is the system that broken?

  33. Then why file for a patent? by Taco+Cowboy · · Score: 1

    As if we believe in the fairy tale that someone has gone all the troubles (and the associated costs) to file a patent RESTRICTING access to specific academic texts to only those who are authorized that THEY WON'T CHARGE ANYTHING ??

    They think we live in fairy land
     

    --
    Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
    1. Re:Then why file for a patent? by similar_name · · Score: 5, Insightful

      They think we live in fairy land

      I think they live in a fairy land. From the summary.

      ...enhancing the overarching academic mission to create and disseminate knowledge.

      The idea that protecting copyright helps encourage the creation process is at least a valid idea. However I don't see any way that restricting the ability to copy that knowledge somehow helps disseminate it.

    2. Re:Then why file for a patent? by davester666 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Yeah. Enforcing copyright laws is defined by restricting the dissemination of knowledge.

      --
      Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
    3. Re:Then why file for a patent? by next_ghost · · Score: 2

      The idea that protecting copyright helps encourage the creation process is at least a valid idea.

      Maybe technically valid, but still completely wrong. For example if Terry Pratchett was not allowed to use public domain works as a basis for his own Discworld series, the Discworld books would either suck or not exist at all.

    4. Re:Then why file for a patent? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have a copy of Numerical Recipes 3rd ed. purchased as a text book. It has a copyright statement about a licence for the code in the text. "If you personally copy no more than 10 routines from this book into your computer, then we authorize you (and only you) to use those routines (and only those routines) on that single computer. They will sell you a license for more.

    5. Re:Then why file for a patent? by brit74 · · Score: 1

      "For example if Terry Pratchett was not allowed to use public domain works as a basis for his own Discworld series, the Discworld books would either suck or not exist at all."

      Could you give more details on this? I haven't read his books, but based on what I've heard of the books, they parody (or take inspiration from) certain aspects of other author's books - including J.R.R. Tolkien. Wikipedia says that the Discworld books were published from 1983 until the present. J.R.R. Tolkien's "Lord of the Rings" books were written between 1937 and 1949 and published in 1937, 1954, 1955. Presumably, they were (and still are) under copyright - which means they were not public domain when Terry Pratchett parodied them.

    6. Re:Then why file for a patent? by next_ghost · · Score: 2

      Could you give more details on this? I haven't read his books, but based on what I've heard of the books, they parody (or take inspiration from) certain aspects of other author's books - including J.R.R. Tolkien. Wikipedia says that the Discworld books were published from 1983 until the present. J.R.R. Tolkien's "Lord of the Rings" books were written between 1937 and 1949 and published in 1937, 1954, 1955. Presumably, they were (and still are) under copyright - which means they were not public domain when Terry Pratchett parodied them.

      I've read the entire main series of Discworld books except Snuff and Raising Taxes and Pratchett really does parody a lot of older works, Shakespeare in particular, though I haven't found anything that would remind me of Tolkien. There are two Shakespeare parody books: Wyrd Sisters (combination of Macbeth and Hamlet, the first spoken line in Pratchett's book is verbatim first spoken line from Macbeth) and Lords and Ladies (I believe it's a parody of A Midsummer Night's Dream but I'm not completely sure). Shakespeare also appears as a character in The Science of Discworld II: The Globe where Discworld elves try to become rulers of our world by influencing Shakespeare while he writes A Midsummer Night's Dream. Smaller references to Shakespeare also appear throughout other books. Other parodies of older works are Eric (parody of Faust, even the book cover points that out), Witches Abroad (multiple fairy tales including Cinderella), Maskerade (parody of The Phantom of the Opera) and Carpe Jugulum (I think it's a parody of Stoker's Dracula but it might be a parody of vampire stories in general). A lot of Pratchett's books also parody history and current culture themes, for example: Pyramids (parody of ancient Egypt), Moving Pictures (early years of Hollywood), Small Gods (Catholic church during the time of inquisition), Soul Music (life of Elvis Presley), Interesting Times (invasion of Genghis Khan into China), Hogfather (parody of Christmas and Santa Claus), The Last Continent (parody of Australia), The Truth (invention of movable type printing press) and Unseen Academicals (parody of football/soccer and its fans).

    7. Re:Then why file for a patent? by brit74 · · Score: 1
      I was getting the Tolkien reference from the wikipedia page: "Discworld is a comic fantasy book series by English author Sir Terry Pratchett,[1] set on the Discworld, a flat world balanced on the backs of four elephants which, in turn, stand on the back of a giant turtle,[2] Great A'Tuin. The books frequently parody, or at least take inspiration from J. R. R. Tolkien, Robert E. Howard, H. P. Lovecraft and William Shakespeare, as well as mythology, folklore and fairy tales, often using them for satirical parallels with current cultural, political and scientific issues." ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discworld )

      I guess my main question was whether or not Pratchett depended on the "public domain" nature of these works to parody them. Copyright allows for a certain amount of parody using copyrighted works. If the parody exemption to copyright was used to parody Tolkien, then it might mean that the status of these earlier works as "public domain" versus "copyrighted" becomes a moot point. In other words, even if they were under copyright, Pratchett could still use them.

      "A parody is a work created to mock, comment on, or make fun at an original work, its subject, author, style, or some other target, by means of humorous, satiric or ironic imitation. Parody is protected as a form of “Fair Use”, a defense to claims of copyright infringement. "
      Source: http://firemark.com/2011/01/17/asked-answered-parodysatire-copyright-infringement/

      There are two Shakespeare parody books: Wyrd Sisters (combination of Macbeth and Hamlet, the first spoken line in Pratchett's book is verbatim first spoken line from Macbeth)

      I'm also doubtful that copying a single line from an earlier (copyrighted) work would be sufficient to be considered copyright infringement.

    8. Re:Then why file for a patent? by lennier · · Score: 1

      However I don't see any way that restricting the ability to copy that knowledge somehow helps disseminate it.

      Poverty is prosperity!
      Ignorance is strength!
      Copying is theft!

      Four disks good, two disks bad.

      --
      You are not a brain: http://books.google.com/books?id=2oV61CeDx-YC
    9. Re:Then why file for a patent? by next_ghost · · Score: 1

      The books frequently parody, or at least take inspiration from J. R. R. Tolkien,

      I have no idea why Wikipedia lists Tolkien as a source of inspiration. There may be some very small references to Tolkien here and there that I haven't noticed but there's no mention of Hobbits in the entire series. Discworld elves are evil goblins that use magic to appear much more beautiful than they really are, any physical contact with iron hurts them pretty badly (works almost as well as silver on werewolves) and they have been banished to another dimension long time ago. I think this description of elves comes from German folklore. Perhaps the only noticeable reference to Tolkien might be Orcs in Unseen Academicals but the book doesn't copy any storyline from Tolkien's books. Pratchett just describes Orcs as creatures artificially created for war just like Tolkien does but that's probably it.

      Robert E. Howard,

      There's Cohen the Barbarian in some books but he doesn't actually have that much in common with Howard's Conan. Cohen is ninety-something grey-haired toothless barbarian who still loves to kill evil priests, rescue girls about to be sacrificed, steal treasure and then get drunk in the nearest town. He mostly appears alongside Rincewind, a wizzard (that's how it's spelled on his pointy hat) that can't do any magic, and Cohen even takes the role of Genghis Khan (well, Ghenghiz Cohen) in Interesting Times. There's no obsession with steel as in Howard's books. There's a reference to the 1982 Conan the Barbarian movie though in the form of warriors talking about what's best in life in a yurt. But Cohen delivers a very different answer than Conan.

      H. P. Lovecraft

      There's Temple of Bel-Shamharoth in the first book and occasional appearance of monsters from dungeon dimensions but that also counts only as a reference. There's no storyline copied from Lovecraft.

      I guess my main question was whether or not Pratchett depended on the "public domain" nature of these works to parody them.

      Pratchett heavily parodies only stuff that's in public domain. Things that are still under copyright only get very small references.

      I'm also doubtful that copying a single line from an earlier (copyrighted) work would be sufficient to be considered copyright infringement.

      It's not a single line, it's the whole story of those two plays combined together. The opening scene of Wyrd Sisters shows three witches having a meeting on a stormy night (Macbeth starts with a similar scene, the witches are called Wyrd Sisters in Macbeth). Early in the book, Lord Felmet kills his cousin king Verence of Lancre because his ambitious wife wanted to become queen. Since Verence has a newborn son, Felmet orders him killed as well. However, the witches save Verence's son by sending him out of Lancre with a travelling troupe. When the baby is safely outside borders, the witches perform a ritual to move Lancre 20 years into the future. Meanwhile, Lord Felmet starts losing his mind, seeing blood on his hands all the time. He tries to clean his hands so hard that his delusions become reality. When the travelling troupe returns to Lancre, only a few months have passed since Verence's death but due to the ritual, his son is already an adult. The troupe performs murder of Verence on stage in Lancre Castle (just like in Hamlet) which makes Felmet completely snap and reveal himself as murderer of the king. Lord Felmet kills himself, his wife disappears in forests of Lancre (possibly killed by wild animals) and Lancre gets a new king. The end.

  34. Excerpt is incorrect... by twebb72 · · Score: 1

    "a system and method ... that aligns the interests of teaching professionals, [strike]students,[/strike] and publishers"

    FTFY.

  35. The Right to Read by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ah, at last, the future is now.

    http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html

    1. Re:The Right to Read by Sloppy · · Score: 1

      Remember when the The Right to Read was paranoid ravings about stuff that could never happen, taken to a comically absurd extreme?

      --
      As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
  36. Re:Students are PAYING CUSTOMERS and should demand by Der+Huhn+Teufel · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Students can get up to $5500 per year in government aid depending on their need that they do not have to pay back. The government also backs loans at much lower interest rates available elsewhere. Once virtually everyone has access to large amounts of money for college, colleges can easily raise their rate and still have a large volume of students attending - and this is seen by the fact that almost every college raises their tuition and fees far in excess of the rate of inflation every year. Colleges practically bleed money, and very few of them have any semblance of balanced accounting.

  37. MPAA frames the news by tepples · · Score: 2

    the government [...] seems to be heavily controlled by the copyright cartels. How the hell did we let these people get this much money and power?

    Getting elected to U.S. federal office requires the cooperation of the national news media. The national news media have become co-owned by the movie studios. Therefore, the movie studios get to frame the discussion any way they want.

  38. When Will Publishers Get It? by Dr_Ish · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This seems typical of the world of publishing today. Many publishers are merely money making machines, with little regard for either students, or knowledge. Unfortunately, as publishers adopt more and more predatory practices, they end up pissing off both students and professors. There is one major academic publisher in my field Cengage (who operate under many other names), whose books I now refuse to use. They update editions every three years, doing little more than changing page numbers and changing the order of exercises. Each new edition comes with a substantial price hike and force me to rework sections of my classes. The result of this? I now have the equivalent of an on-line text I have developed myself over the years. So, they have lost the business.

    It is the very same publishing houses who are mean about sending us desk copies and charge us for them, if we do not adopt their texts. Again, they end up as losers, as there is no incentive to use their texts. They also get pissy when we sell the books that they send to us, without our asking. This again is silly. In the State in which I teach, professors have not had a pay rise in four years, so a few bucks to buy lunch was a welcome perk. Stopping this perk does not make us like them any more.

    That being said, not all publishers are like this. Some keep their editions for a long time and do not change much when they bring out new editions. A good example of this is Oxford University Press. So, when I need to use a text for a class, all the business goes to OUP. This is the correct way to do business in publishing. It should not be about quarterly results, but rather about building and maintaining long term relationships. The technological innovation described in the post is just yet another step in the wrong direction. Eventually though, publishers will have to work out the errors of their ways, or perish./p

  39. One of these things does not belong by dissy · · Score: 0

    A) a system and method preventing unauthorized access to copyrighted academic texts

    B) while also enhancing the overarching academic mission to create and disseminate knowledge

    So they are trying to spread knowledge, by not allowing access to knowledge?

    I believe one, if not both, of those things does not mean what they think it means.

  40. USPTO cleanup by mug+funky · · Score: 1

    rm -f `grep "system and method" `find /media/patents``

  41. government should be working to make books cheap by Dan667 · · Score: 1

    a highly educated workforce trumps any short term profits greed book makers can make. The fact that many subjects like Calculus have not changed in a very long time should make them at cost for printing the material. If book makers are not willing to do this then maybe the government should, it is in the countries interest.

  42. Re:Professorss care about learning, not about prof by SilverJets · · Score: 1

    ROFL

    Oh. You were serious.

  43. Sometimes a patent can be good. by jbeaupre · · Score: 2

    Since patents are used to limit the number of people who can do something, having a patent on something stupid will lead to limitations on the number of people doing said stupid thing.

    The alternative is said stupid thing being a freely available technique that can be implemented at any time by anyone at no cost.

    --
    The world is made by those who show up for the job.
    1. Re:Sometimes a patent can be good. by azalin · · Score: 1

      Very interesting line of thinking. Reminds me of what the Bavarian government did with the book of a certain "author" whose soon expiring copyright they inherited in 1945.

    2. Re:Sometimes a patent can be good. by hexagonc · · Score: 1

      I was thinking this as well. I see this patent as having less to do with copyright and everything to do with a simple money grab by the inventor. Publishers are applauding it now because their kneejerk reaction is to applaud anything that claims to be some form of DRM. But when the celebration is over and the champagne has run dry, what do they gain from a DRM scheme that requires them to pay licensing fees to this guy to use? I think this patent doesn't mean what the publishers think it does.

    3. Re:Sometimes a patent can be good. by dkf · · Score: 1

      Since patents are used to limit the number of people who can do something, having a patent on something stupid will lead to limitations on the number of people doing said stupid thing.

      Think of it like a tax on stupid. "Sure, I'm happy to license this technology to you. All it requires is the small fee of $1000 per student per course, plus a minor administration fee per course per year of $25000. Just tack it onto your charges, which they'll have to pay in order to graduate. Profit!"

      The fact that it would lead to students not taking the course in the first place would even be considered to be a good thing by many professors with tenure...

      --
      "Little does he know, but there is no 'I' in 'Idiot'!"
  44. Prior art - this isn't new by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Anyone who has used Clifton's Strengths Finder knows that each book has a unique code in it that ties to an account on the Strengths Finder web site. What nobody has mentioned yet is that this also kills the second hand textbook market - the codes are useless to subsequent purchasers.

    1. Re:Prior art - this isn't new by sdnoob · · Score: 1

      this is simply one-time use serial numbers with a form of online activation -- as is already done with many video games and such use predates this bullshit patent's filing date.

      also... books are meant to be *shared*.. and borrowed, and lent, and resold... these are fundamental rights of first sale. so suck on that, mr. vogel. forcing each student to buy their own (new) book (or 'secret code' found in said new book) should be illegal.

      it's bad enough when textbooks get "revised" every year and profs (or the department, or the school.. whoever is getting the kickback or royalties or other 'perks') "require" the latest one -- limiting options for obtaining the correct text on the used market... but this new patent is complete shit.

      and finally, wouldn't surprise me at all if publishers using this shit patent's methods used their special forums' TOS to grant themselves license to all user-contributed content their own use.

  45. Already predicted by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html

  46. In Canada... by ForgedArtificer · · Score: 1

    This has already been going on in Canada for years.

    The last time I was in college, almost all of my courses required a textbook with one of these codes. You did have the option to buy the codes separately, but the codes alone cost $50-100.

    --
    The right to offend is central to the right to free speech.
  47. Students rejoice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I hope the patent is really broad, so that everytime a professor requires buying a textbook for a course they risk being slapped with a patent suit.

  48. What about printed text books? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is what we used to do to beat these greedy book publishers. Four or five of us would pool the money required to buy one copy of the book and tear it into that many pieces on the very first day. Hey, we are learning Computer Science and why not practice that parallel processing?

  49. Few incentives by Fjandr · · Score: 1

    Professors have few incentives [...]

    Until the book is written by that particular professor, who then requires its purchase in order to pass the class the professor is teaching.

    Happens all the time in US universities, so in some cases there is a financial incentive for the professor to require the purchase of a particular book.

  50. Hmm... Bad, but... by Lancer873 · · Score: 0

    One the one hand, this is now a thing, and that sucks, hard. On the other, now it's patented, which means that, hopefully, only a handful of books will have this.

  51. Right to Read by Fjandr · · Score: 4, Informative

    Not that I'm otherwise a huge fan of RMS, but I'm surprised I haven't seen any reference to the "Right to Read" in this discussion yet. Given the direction US copyright and education are going, it gets scarily closer every day.

    http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html

    1. Re:Right to Read by Fjandr · · Score: 1

      Oops, somehow had browsing set to 1, hence not seeing the couple ACs who posted the link...

      Doh.

    2. Re:Right to Read by frank_adrian314159 · · Score: 1

      I was actually hoping not to see this, as it has already been referenced on Slashdot far too many times and, as such, is boring, trite, and redundant. Please don't put this up again.

      --
      That is all.
    3. Re:Right to Read by Fjandr · · Score: 1

      That it's been posted to Slashdot when it's not relevant lessens its impact; many such things happen on a regular basis.

      That the above has happened doesn't invalidate its relevance to this particular story, your opinion of its continuing usefulness notwithstanding.

  52. expensive book by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    why is it the a C/C++ book cost a mere $3 in India - while the same C/C++ book cost over $41 in US ?

    I bet to you that same C/C++ book cost around $3 in China too!!

  53. Forced pay even if you don't want the book by Hentes · · Score: 2

    In the original sense of the word, forcing someone to give you their money is textbook piracy.

  54. There are plenty of good. by LucyMary · · Score: 1

    There are plenty of good, free and low-cost textbooks, and many professors use them.

    --
    I really love club dresses ,
  55. Schools have failed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Schools have failed, It's that simple.

    They don't teach the Constitution, or the DHS wouldn't exist.
    They teach socialist UN agenda 21 globalist political science (as opposed to real science which actually include the SUN, Aerial Spraying and HAARP technology)
    They don't teach math, or the banksters would be in jail

    Colleges and their student loans should be charged with racketeering.

    At some point you start your own school, and let these fucked up schools take a dirt nap.
    No school is better than the shit we have now

  56. subject by Legion303 · · Score: 1

    Maybe make textbooks cost less than what a student can pay for food over two months and they'll start buying more of them.

  57. Book purchases made up 30% of my fees by sirlark · · Score: 2

    In my first year as an undergraduate in South Africa (where fees are probably fairly cheap compared to the rest of the world) I paid approximately $1000 for the year. I needed to buy 7 books overall, costing a total of approximately $350 (bought new). This was in 1997. All the books were imported and the prices based mostly on the US price, plus the usual healthy markup and taxes. So, yes! It makes a bloody difference. One book was more than a month's rent for me. The developing world sure could use some free text-books, and quite frankly, the developing world should take the lead here too. There are some excellent professor's who develop world class text books teaching at universities in the third world. third world governments should be subsidizing THEM to write these materials, as it will save on education costs in the long run.

    1. Re:Book purchases made up 30% of my fees by khipu · · Score: 1

      As I was saying: there are plenty of free and low-cost textbooks (and lecture notes) available already. If your professors weren't using them, complain to them.

  58. Re:Students are PAYING CUSTOMERS and should demand by supercrisp · · Score: 2

    I don't know where you worked, but your statement doesn't reflect my years of experience teaching at four different universities and one community college. Every higher-ed institution I've worked at, attended, or considered as an employer had a bookstore that was run by an external vendor. The money from the books doesn't go back to the institution. There is sometimes a sort of kickback deal where a percentage of sales will go back to a specific department. I and many other _professors_ consider that shady, and we don't like it, but it's often thrust upon us. At my current institution we just got out of a contract that had such a provision, and we're glad to be out of it. The sort of publisher who needs to offer you kickbacks is not the type providing a good product. By the way, we used the kickbacks to buy photocopier paper and some computers for the honors students' program; we didn't otherwise have the funding. On the issue of "Pell Grant farming" and programs fitting available funding, hell yes that's happening. What do you want to do? Pay higher tuition instead? Every school I've worked at in the last few years has been shedding instructional faculty because we don't have money. Enrollments are up, demands on us for tech, parking, new buildings, entertainment in the dorms, those are all up. But state and federal funding has dropped steadily for 30 years. Our endowments and investments tanked in the "great recession." So where are we going to turn? We'll jack up tuition as much as we can without cutting enrollments, and we'll "farm" what little public money is left.

  59. Re:Students are PAYING CUSTOMERS and should demand by supercrisp · · Score: 1

    In the United States, at public institutions, students are not paying customers, really. That's because, even after 30 years of cuts in public funding for education, the education at public universities and colleges is still mostly paid by the taxpayer. That's changing, slowly. Soon we'll be back to the good old days when only the wealthy can afford to pay or risk the crushing loan debt. Keep voting for "fiscal conservatives" so that we can more swiftly reach that new Gilded Age.

  60. This is going way too far by Life2Death · · Score: 1

    The only hope is that this ends up like a professor at the U of M --

    He wrote his own book and students had to either print it off themselves at home or take it somewhere to have it printed for $6.

    It was 100% relivant to the class so no wasted book or money. Beats paying $150 for a book 80% of classes dont use.

    1. Re:This is going way too far by Life2Death · · Score: 1

      Oh, I get it. This is to stop used text book sales!

  61. Re:government should be working to make books chea by hexagonc · · Score: 1

    From the perspective of government, a highly educated workforce is a double-edged sword. On one hand, it can lead to a stronger economy and higher tax revenue, but on the other hand, a highly educated workforce is harder to control.

  62. Higher course cost, books for free by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They should simply increase the course cost and provide all text books for free. They can't push the cost up too high because they want students. Then the struggle over the budget will be between more appropriate parties and perhaps prof. Greedy's new book won't be included because it's not cost-effective.

  63. Professors do not choose the text book by madhatter256 · · Score: 1

    Many professors in universities, especially major research universities, do not necessarily have a say in what textbook they can get. In fact, there are very little choices as there are only three major publishers out there that provide senior-level text books. The decision on which textbook to use is made by the college board members as well as the professor.

    The textbook industry is very lucrative. It's like pharmaceutical companies, they have sellers going around pushing the text book, etc.

    I've taken sophomore level courses whose textbook required online activation to have access to the questions (online) that the professor assigns homework from. It was messed up, because there was an online version of the textbook and physical copy. The online copy was $250 and it came with the activation code. Whereas, the physical copy, if bought from the college bookstore, was also $250, but you had to pay $60 for the activation code as the copies sold to the school from the publisher did not have them - and they wouldn't get the newer versions of the book until next semester... It pissed a lot of students off as it was a 100 student Physics II course.

    --
    Previewing comments are for sissies!
  64. battle.net for textbooks by achacha · · Score: 1

    This is battle.net for textbooks, how is this patentable?

  65. Algonquin College by colesw · · Score: 1

    At the moment I've been taking 3-4 classes as part of distance education online (which the college is horrible at). In the 4 semesters I've had so far I've had 5 courses that required a access code, or the book (usually it was cheaper for me to buy used, and then by the access code directly from the publisher).

  66. Alternative stores by amigabill · · Score: 1

    I buy textbooks from Amazon when they are cheaper than the university approved bookstore.mbsdirect.net Oh the unhumanity I've caused! Sometimes MBS is cheaper though, and sometimes they have self-published things that can't be had anywhere else. But fir the most part, Amazon is cheaper. And it's not (yet) illegal to buy books from them.

    1. Re:Alternative stores by amigabill · · Score: 1

      And I'm talking buying brand-new USA editions (I'm in USA), not used or from 3rd-world importers.

  67. Re:Students are PAYING CUSTOMERS and should demand by frank_adrian314159 · · Score: 1

    According to the NCES, inflation has been most marked and correlated to Pell Grant availability within the for profit, private schools. Public colleges and private, not for profit schools show lower increases and less correlation.

    The canard that school loans cause tuition increases is another right-wing canard, true mainly because the for-profits are skewing the numbers. As usual, it is another right-wing smoke-and-mirrors assertion, where the right's solution (the free enterprise, for-profit colleges) actually cause or exacerbate the problem.

    --
    That is all.
  68. Yep by rsilvergun · · Score: 1

    shoulda got a lawyer. Because if it's one thing a bunch of broke college kids have it's money to hire a lawyer. :P

    Even if a rich kid had hired one out of spite, it's still 'required course work'. Buyer beware, and all that rot.

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
  69. Rich students, poor students by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I live right down the street from the main entrance of UC Riverside, where the mentioned study was done. Based on what's going on in my neighborhood, and occasional discussions with students, undergrads at UC Riverside are mostly upper-middle class (and higher) Chinese kids. If 78% of them can't afford texbooks, higher education is in real trouble.

  70. unjustifiable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This patent seems to me to protect the IP rights on a product that simply makes life unnecessarily more costly and difficult for a generation of already-cash-strapped students. Is it not enough that, due to an exponential rise in tuition, increased costs, and global recession, most students in the US are lucky to be able to attend school at all, much less purchase books that they might not even need? Moreover, potentially putting this demographic on the hook for IP infringement simply does not seem justifiable.