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Android 4.1 Jelly Bean Review
New submitter codysleiman points out a review of Android 4.1 (Jelly Bean) at The Verge. They say the look and feel of Google's mobile operating system has improved in a few different ways. Aesthetically, it isn't trying quite so hard as it did in Gingerbread and Ice Cream Sandwich, making the UI less of a distraction. While performance benchmarks aren't much different, Jelly Bean forces 60fps throughout and lets the GPU, CPU and display run independently, so it at least feels smoother and more responsive. Another big area of improvement is notifications: "You can tap a share button on photos, calendar appointments give you a snooze or email attendees option, missed calls provide direct call-back buttons. ... Google has introduced APIs for actions on notifications and I hope that app developers take advantage of them, because it would be nice to have more actions on a variety of different apps." The new on-screen keyboard also got some much-needed updates, and Google Now looks promising.
apparently the time is still off by the GPS-UTC difference, you still can't do voice commands via Bluetooth (such as when in a car dock), and the email client sends even plain text as base64 encoded.
"National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
Now that JB is here and is very similiar to ICS it should be an easy upgrade from ICS to JB and manufacturers will likely scrap ICS upgrade plans and go straight to JB.
Considering the low amount of people on 4.0, it's seems almost like there's no point in releasing 4.1 at this time.
No one? I already have it.
So I go and check my "About Tablet" and I see... 4.04! What blather are you spouting?
When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
ya that was pretty unbiased. thanks Anonymous Coward!!
The answer to all your problems
It took 4 versions of iOS before Apple let the user even switch the desktop wallpaper. Apple isn't about "thinking different." It's more about "We've done the thinking for you."
The Internet King? I wonder if he could provide faster nudity.
2.3 is over 18 months old so I don't Android is incrementing terribly quickly.
It seems Jelly is exactly what it should be; a refinement on ICS. I must say as a mixed mobile OS user (Touchpad ICS+ Nexus, iPhone 4, Sammy Wp7) that it is really nice to hear Google is going after lag issues. If I didn't use iOS or WP7 I likely wouldn't notice, but despite some real solid improvement since Honeycomb Android has to me never felt quite as swift. To me it was really the only thing left that Google was notably behind on and especially frustrating on high end hardware, and makes me even more secure in my Nexus 7 pre-order. I'm really glad to see that unlike fans on all sides of the issue Google is able to identify concerns and kick them fast. Bodes very well for their new tablet focus.
The problem are the carriers, not Google. Once a carrier has sold you a device and locked you in to a contract, what incentive is there to keep your device up to date? It's just a money sink to them, and they'd much rather have you drooling over an early upgrade in part because of an OS upgrade too.
Personally, i like sticking to Google's phones.
That's plain disingenuous. Firefox's a blatant example of version number inflation; there's nearly no distinguishing feature between each version. Android's a fast progressing software project; new versions are frequent, but each comes with significant (sometimes drastic) changes.
You should be complaining that your phone manufacturer/mobile provider is keeping you stuck at 2.3.5 instead of complaining Google is improving the OS.
...so I don't *think* Android...
I want to try out this operating system.
My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
Why is grey text on a white background becoming so common?
I look at the Google Now screenshots and it's barely readable...
That is one of the things I think looks really interesting.
It also seem to have improved vastly over not only the old version, but also over Apple's Siri.
Some videos of the new function:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLyuWEWqYqQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kw-RzN4xYyE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHkhp6BwnGo
I mean, it's still gimmicky, but it looks like an improvement. But for me it's not gonna be practical until it support my language, Norwegian. How useful is it when it can't understand the norwegian names on my contacts? Or street names? Or store names?
Still, it looks like a really fun toy... *wants*
It's The Golden Rule: "He who has the gold makes the rules."
Of course you could just buy an Asus tablet and get the update within a few weeks. But if you prefer to reward companies for poor service, keep buying those who abandon you immediately after you purchase their product.
but can it run itunes?
So I go and check my "About Tablet" and I see... 4.04! What blather are you spouting?
The "blather" that very few Android users as a whole are using the latest version of the OS, with all the new features that are being promoted (like this new API for example) because handset manufacturers don't want to update old phones that are perfectly capable of running ICS, and now JB, but want you to buy a new phone instead.
The last graph I saw showed that only 6 or 7% of Android handset users were on ICS, and now JB rolls around. Google needs to address that problem somehow, but I'm not really sure what it can do given the nature of the way Android works - that freedom has unfortunate side effects in some cases.
Compare that to iOS' distribution, where a *much* larger percentage are running the most recent version, making it a lot easier for developers. the trade off, of course, is that Apple tightly controls the ecosystem.
If you want the real Android experience do what I do and buy Android products with the word 'Nexus' in the name. It really isn't that hard.
The soylentnews experiment has been a dismal failure.
Google is cleaning Apple's clock in the market, which is why Apple is competing with them in the courtroom. Apparently they think market competition should be illegal if they can't compete. If you can't innovate, you litigate.
Huh? Carriers make their money on service, not hardware. That's why they're willing to sell you a phone at a loss to get you to sign a new contract. As long as they can get customers to stay with them, it's beneficial if you keep the equipment you have as long as possible. That changes somewhat with technology changes. Right now, carriers have an incentive to get (data consuming) customers to move to LTE, because it's cheaper to provide bandwidth there.
Verizon recently changed things around, if you want a subsidized phone, you have to give up grandfathered unlimited data. So, they'll be trying to get people to move to new phones to force that. But I suspect many will simply stretch out their phones life with privately developed upgrades, or buy future phones used or at full retail. Hopefully, the eventual move to VoLTE will create a more competitive market for handsets in the US, and make service and hardware more separate, and it has been with GSM, etc. in most of the world. At that point, it's likely that phone manufacturer's will sell directly, and OS upgrades will be a selling advantage.
"National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
I just bought a Nexus. Neither my Nexus S nor my Galaxy Nexus have had any problems getting updates. I expect the same treatment when my Nexus 7 gets here.
The soylentnews experiment has been a dismal failure.
I got on the train this morning and saw half the carriage on their iphones doing what ever apple users do - I couldn't help but think, as I pulled out my android, "who's thinking different now bitches?"
Are you talking about that OS that will have a new version this year and won't run on the current flagship device?
Hint: this device is a couple of months old.
How about just enjoy what you have without trolling? I have an HD7 windows phone as well as Android phones and I just like the Android phones better. Especially now that my Galaxy Nexus is running jelly bean and consequently super smooth thereby obliterating the last advantage windows phone has for me.
What I'm really glad with my GNex is that I can expect full updates in the future while my HTC windows phone will never see windows phone 8.
The soylentnews experiment has been a dismal failure.
Firefox is merely following Google's example with Chrome. For reference, Chrome is currently version 20 on my machine and still looks remarkably similar to version 1.
What about 'incentive' don't you understand? Testing software for 6 months, quality assurance, and certification costs money. Where they earn their revenue is irrelevant. There is not incentive to incur the COST.
I just bought a Nexus. Neither my Nexus S nor my Galaxy Nexus have had any problems getting updates. I expect the same treatment when my Nexus 7 gets here.
Good for you - you're obviously in that 5 or 6% who have phones that receive updates (or are able to be trivially updated). The vast majority of Android users are not like you, as shown by the stats. Either they simply do not update for whatever reason, or they are unable to. It's a problem that doesn't go away (and in fact, only gets worse) if those at the top of the Android food chain with the really good devices say "I'm ok, so there's no problem". This issue still affects you, since it causes problems in the Android ecosystem as a whole.
How old is the current WP flagship phone? When will the next WP version be released? Will it update?
It gives trolls a convenient talking point too ;-)
The soylentnews experiment has been a dismal failure.
Symbian foh lief!
All those Nexus products. All one of them.
Yes, it is hard. Not every carrier offers a Nexus device. Isn't it only Verizon? Google only recently added the Devices section to their store where you could buy a reasonably priced and unlocked Galaxy Nexus. And now they've suspended it from the store because of Apple's absurd injunction.
Also, there still is no Nexus tablet. It hasn't shipped yet. So again, yes it's difficult. Rather, it's impossible.
Everyone is so happy and glad you have a Galaxy Nexus, but you're trying to defend against one of the most valid and popular complaints about the current Android ecosystem. Try again this time next year once Google has more Nexus phones and tablets on the store and some people have had time for their contracts to expire. Maybe then you can blame the more tech-savvy that they should've bought Google devices, because there may actually be some by then.
You have seen the upgrade paths for android, right?
The main difference is when Chrome updates, my extensions still work. Firefox, sadly, not so much.
The soylentnews experiment has been a dismal failure.
What is the difference between feeling "smoother and more responsive" and being "smoother and more responsive"?
I'm not trying to be snarky, I'm asking seriously.
You are welcome on my lawn.
It gives trolls a convenient talking point too ;-)
I'm genuinely curious here, do you think I'm trolling, or do you think there's no problem with only a fractional proportion of the Android user base using the latest version of the OS, only for that OS to be already depreciated?
Clearly the "you can buy a Nexus S if you want to update" model isn't really working.
How about just enjoy what you have without trolling?
How is stating a fact trolling? Google's own numbers show ~90% Android users still aren't on 4.0+, and it's been almost nine months since ICS was released. Good luck with your defense though.
That 'problem' is solved by time. It is an unstoppable force. It marches on. When Gingerbread came out, we heard the same complaints. 6 months later, we were still hearing that complaint. At the time, most users were not on Froyo yet. Today, 64% of users are on Gingerbread and 10% are on Ice Cream. JB gets released now, and in 6 months, we will see a small percentage on JB, more users on Ice Cream and fewer on Gingerbread. With Android, you will also see people skipping releases. Eclair never made it to very many phones. It was great for those of us that got it, but most people went straight to Gingerbread. Not getting Eclair did not hinder them in any way.
With Apple, either you are an early adopter, or you are too old to care about. On Android, we have early adopters, as well as mainstream users, and late adopters. My year old phone is on Gingerbread, and iOS still hasn't caught up to it in functionality unless you buy a specific model of iPhone. So, while you can say that everyone on iPhone is running the newest OS version, while Android users are not, you can also say that every Android user can perform voice searches while iPhone users cannot.
Simply put, worries about being on the newest OS version is meaningless FUD.
All those Nexus products. All one of them.
How many iPhones are there? How many Windows Phone devices on the market right now will be upgradable to Windows Phone 8?
Yes, it is hard. Not every carrier offers a Nexus device.
Actually, you can get the Galaxy Nexus on Verizon, Sprint and the GSM version works on At&t and T-Mobile with full data speeds. The iPhone works on less carriers than that.
Also, there still is no Nexus tablet. It hasn't shipped yet.
True but it is shipping in 2 weeks. The Xoom before it was the Google Experience tablet device and they have already confirmed Jelly Bean will be released for it.
Everyone is so happy and glad you have a Galaxy Nexus, but you're trying to defend against one of the most valid and popular complaints about the current Android ecosystem. Try again this time next year once Google has more Nexus phones and tablets on the store and some people have had time for their contracts to expire. Maybe then you can blame the more tech-savvy that they should've bought Google devices, because there may actually be some by then.
I'm just pointing out the fact that if people are so up in arms over Android updates, there is a simple solution. Just get a real Android device. They make it real easy for you, just ask for "Nexus" by name.
The soylentnews experiment has been a dismal failure.
There is no problem at all. If you don't care about OS updates (and many many people don't) you buy a cheaper product from a company that does not give you one. If you think it is important you buy the top models from Google or Samsung and pay the price for it. Unlike Apple products in this case you have the choice of not to paying the premium price for future upgrades if you think you don't need them.
It's just more FUD from the Slashdot anti-Android astroturf brigade.
Reality is a little different:
The bigger view comparing ICS with other Android versions shows how ICS is the only one of them that has grown its penetration percentage in the last period, and that Gingerbread may have started its S-curve decline, echoing the one that Froyo in green below has already been through:
The takeaway here? Well, despite declines, those other OSs are still being sold and used. ICS in total, he believes, now represents about 42 million devices in use, compared to 260 million running 2.3, and 70m still on 2.2, aka Froyo.
http://techcrunch.com/2012/07/03/melting-point-for-ics-its-share-of-android-penetration-is-growing-while-others-falling/
"I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
only a fractional proportion of the Android user base using the latest version of the OS, only for that OS to be already depreciated
Deprecated. The word is deprecated. Depreciation is a bookkeeping exercise to recognise the cost of an asset over a period of time. Deprecation is the word used to describe software features being superseded.
How many Windows Phones that people are buying right now will be upgradable to Windows Phone 8? How well is Siri working on your iPhone 4? Fucking troll.
Or be happy with your phone in the exact same way you would be if Google didn't release updates so fast, and just hit every other version. The obsession with needing to be on every version released is a self inflicted problem. In the 4.5 years that Android has been on the market, there have been 10 version releases. Complaining that you are not getting an OS update every 6 months is simply silly. Anyone that wants reliably regular updates to stay on the newest version of Android has that option. Everyone who does not have the newest version of Android has chosen not to. Having every phone that isn't a Nexus phone disappear from the market would make Android OS version numbering have the same percentages as iOS, but it wouldn't be good for us Android users.
This has been discussed ad nauseum and it still boils down to the same thing. If you want guaranteed updates for the life of your device on Android you get a Nexus. This isn't a secret and pretending like it is is just trolling. Secondly, saying that a new OS doesn't matter because people are still using the old OS is basically bullshit. People will either get JB if their OEM updates them or they will get it when they get a new Android phone that has it. Again, this is not a secret or some conspiracy. It's just a talking point for the trolls. *yawn*
Compare that to iOS' distribution, where a *much* larger percentage are running the most recent version, making it a lot easier for developers. the trade off, of course, is that Apple tightly controls the ecosystem.
"Easier for Developers"? LOL. I have developed apps for Android and I know what's required to develop apps for IOS. First of all, Android apps can be developed on Windows (all versions), linux, and OSX platforms. Apps can even be developed on Android itself. Eclipse + ADT plugin makes it very easy. IOS apps, on the other hand, can only be developed using Xcode running on OSX. Also, its pretty easy to test your Android app while in development using the emulator but most devs prefer to side-load their app onto the device because its faster and just better than using an emulator. Let's try side-loading an IOS app....oh wait, no USB port. Of course then there's the whole tightly controlled ecosystem you mentioned with Apple...Despite that, vulnerabilities still surface but I bet there are others that Apple stays tight-lipped about and maybe fixes quietly. When Android has a vulnerability, the whole world finds out through the open system of development, arguably making Android appear less secure.
But you have that choice from Apple too - you don't have to buy the latest phone. Apple sells the 3GS still (free on contract, otherwise $99) and the iPhone 4 and they *still* gets the latest OS, despite not paying the premium price. There will be certain parts of iOS6 that are not supported on the 3GS, but it's not bad for free.
So, like unlike Apple, you get the choice of not paying the premium price for future upgrades if you don;t think you need them, since with Apple you get the non-premium phones with the future upgrades included.
Maybe in 2-3 years the wireless carriers will even update their software to 4.1. Most phones being sold now still are on 2.3.
I have a Galaxy Nexus that was just updated to ICS 4.04 last month. It took a little while only because Verizon is my carrier. Those who really want the latest OS root their phones. Mine is not rooted but if it was, I could probably get Jelly Bean right now.
That's not the point though. I have a samsung galaxy s2, and I am willing to bet a dollar that I will never get upgraded jellybean, unless I flash the rom.
Wait, you're claiming it's FUD because your one year old phone is better than an iPhone 4 (I'll pick the iPhone 4 since that was the current model a year ago), and specifically claim that the entire problem of low adoption of the latest OS release on Android, and the issue of manufacturers and carriers deliberately blocking and/or delaying updates to phones that can support them in an effort to drive sales of new phones, both of which cause big headaches for developers is "meaningless FUD" because Android users can voice search?
I think you need to lay off the Apple hate and stop framing everything as a competition with Apple. Fuck what Apple are doing, look at how Android is doing. Who cares if you can voice search on Android. Good for you! How does that have any bearing on the problems posed by the fact that a very small number of users are on the latest version of the OS and those who might want to join them either don't know about it or are blocked from getting there?
Constructive criticism of the platform and its perceived issues are not attempts to "troll" or "spread meaningless FUD".
An Android user might be blocked from getting ICS (and now JB) despite his handset being able to support it is hardly going to be placated by you spouting "well at least you can voice search! it's so much better than iPhone! lolz!". I imagine he already thinks that, since *he bought an Android phone in the first place*.
On the "you're either an early adopter or too old to care about" front on iOS, the facts simply do not bear that out. iOS6 is launching soon (likely with whatever the new iPhone will be called), but it's in developer beta now. It will support the 3GS (albeit with some features missing, like Siri) - that's hardly a culture of "early adopter or too old to care". The 3GS was released in June 2009, and they'll be actively supporting it with the latest OS. By the time iOS6 hits consumer handsets that's over 3 years, and the active support of the previous 4 model generations (3GS, 4, 4S and the new one). That's certainly doing "better" than some Android handsets that have been abandoned and can't upgrade (and for balance, doing "worse" than some Android handsets that will be supported for longer).
only a fractional proportion of the Android user base using the latest version of the OS, only for that OS to be already depreciated
Deprecated. The word is deprecated. Depreciation is a bookkeeping exercise to recognise the cost of an asset over a period of time. Deprecation is the word used to describe software features being superseded.
Yeah, I realised as soon as I posted it - I had a typo and used the spelling corrector, only to pick the wrong one in the list and I didn't catch it until I'd hit submit.
Je suis desolé.
How many Windows Phones that people are buying right now will be upgradable to Windows Phone 8? How well is Siri working on your iPhone 4? Fucking troll.
Why does this have to be about iOS or Windows Phone?
You touchy fandroids really can't seem to get past defining yourselves by how much you hate everyone else.
If an ecosystem has an issue, then whatever the other guys are doing is irrelevant - you fix your own problem. If "Team A" is better than "Team B" yet there are still areas of improvement that can be made in Team A, do you simply say "no need to improve, we're already better than Team B, so there are no problems!"?
Seriously, not every observation about Android is an "attack". You might understand that some day, kid, after you learn how to log in I assume. Baby steps. The Internet is a big, scary place.
Constructive criticism of the platform and its perceived issues are not attempts to "troll" or "spread meaningless FUD".
Then criticize the platform if that's what you want to do. All you've done so far is criticize the behavior of the various OEM's. You've been told over and over that if you want an Android device that gets guaranteed updates you get a Nexus. Since this article is about Jelly Bean, do you have any specific criticisms of it? Otherwise you are just continuing an off-topic rant.
The soylentnews experiment has been a dismal failure.
fandroids
Yep...I was wondering when the troll^H^H^H^H leopard would show his spots.
The soylentnews experiment has been a dismal failure.
Compare that to iOS' distribution, where a *much* larger percentage are running the most recent version, making it a lot easier for developers. the trade off, of course, is that Apple tightly controls the ecosystem.
"Easier for Developers"?
LOL. I have developed apps for Android and I know what's required to develop apps for IOS. First of all, Android apps can be developed on Windows (all versions), linux, and OSX platforms. Apps can even be developed on Android itself. Eclipse + ADT plugin makes it very easy. IOS apps, on the other hand, can only be developed using Xcode running on OSX. Also, its pretty easy to test your Android app while in development using the emulator but most devs prefer to side-load their app onto the device because its faster and just better than using an emulator. Let's try side-loading an IOS app....oh wait, no USB port.
Of course then there's the whole tightly controlled ecosystem you mentioned with Apple...Despite that, vulnerabilities still surface but I bet there are others that Apple stays tight-lipped about and maybe fixes quietly. When Android has a vulnerability, the whole world finds out through the open system of development, arguably making Android appear less secure.
Yeah, you basically described "using a computer" - something I expect that a software developer does not consider to be difficult.
When I say "easier for developers" I'm not talking about having to use Windows, or OS X or some other really trivial thing, I'm talking about being able to simplify your workflow at the actual coal face, especially as it relates to testing and QA.
If you're finding it "difficult" because iOS development is only on OS X, then you might be in the wrong profession.
Sorry for being irritable then, it's a pet peeve.
I have a Galaxy Nexus that was just updated to ICS 4.04 last month. It took a little while only because Verizon is my carrier. Those who really want the latest OS root their phones. Mine is not rooted but if it was, I could probably get Jelly Bean right now.
And you don't see that as a problem? The issue with Verizon? This is what I mean. I have taken serious vehement, frothing flack from mostly AC posters kneejerking to my perceived "trolling of Android" when pointing out something that is a fact - the low adoption of updates due to deliberate feet dragging or outright abandonment to force new phone sales.
My point isn't to create a dick waving contest over iOS or Windows Phone or any of that, it's to suggest that maybe Google could try to do something about it.
For a site where the very idea of a signed bootloader is causing outrage on the desktop (Secure Boot), slashdot sure is happy to let all that nonsense slide when it comes to Android, as long as there are some phones that are able to update without rooting them, as was pointed out to me earlier. Apparently the low percentage of ICS users is "meaningless FUD" because *his* phone is running ICS, and thus fuck everyone else.
If one of the licence requirements of Android was an unlocked bootloader from the start, and an inbuilt (optional, but on by default) periodic check for updates, perhaps the ecosystem could be streamlined. I don't know. I just feel that right now it's almost silly that so few Android users are on the current, bugfixed, high quality ICS despite the fact that they almost certainly could be and would be having a better experience as a result.
I side-load all my iOS apps. The ones I write, that is. How do you think iOS developers test?
The 3GS? Ha ha. That old piece of shit isn't even worthy of discussion with it's pathetic QVGA screen. And don't forget the thousands and thousands of apps in the Apple App Store that will only run on the iPhone 4 and above. Not that that raggedy piece of shit will run all of the new shit like Siri. Speaking of which has been royally stomped by Google Now. Ha ha.
This discussion was about cheaper, non-premium phones. The 3GS "royally stomps" (to use your words) on some of the non-premium Android phones out there that it is currently targeted to compete with, most of which also have a similar screen to the 3GS (since the iPhone lineup is low, medium, premium with the 3GS, 4 and 4S respectively). The 3GS certainly qualifies as a non-premium alternative, especially since it is available for free on various carriers with a contract.
Just because you don't think it's "worthy of discussion" doesn't mean that a) it's not still a viable option in the market (it still has high sales, despite being 2 generations behind), or b) that Apple is not supporting it with the latest version of iOS, which it is - iOS6.
The GPP claimed that there was no alternative to the premium choice with Apple, and there is with Android. The 3GS demonstrates that both Apple and Android have non-premium, affordable options.
Google's own numbers show ~90% Android users still aren't on 4.0+, and it's been almost nine months since ICS was released.
There are still millions of Windows XP boxes even though Windows 7 is out there for years. Does that indicate that the Windows upgrade process is broken?
Android devices are sold as something a notch below Apple products (at least because it's not Apple.) Android phones cost less, and as result they are sold to customers who just want a phone. There are very few geeks in that crowd. Among geeks there are very few people who want to risk all the data that they have on the phone for sake of upgrade to a new version of the OS that they haven't seen and don't know what it does better or worse. Most people don't even know what they have and what else is out there. I have a Galaxy Tab device; I don't even know what version of Android it runs! I don't even know what versions are out there! Why? Because I don't care. It's not a quest of my life to nurture and maintain the most recent version of Android on a device that does what it needs to do already. I see no point in upgrading it. It's a tool and it works well.
Apple 3GS is an old piece of shit that is considerably inferior to any middle ground Android phones in the market, like Galaxy Ace, for example, AND more expensive.
And if you never install windows, I'm guessing you'll never get Windows 8.
Going to cry about being stuck on XP? DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.
Apple isn't about "thinking different." It's more about "We've done the thinking for you."
Its a shame because they are starting to get Alzheimer's by the looks but really integrating Facebook into iOS6 is a kin to Narcissistic Personality Disorder IMHO.
It's more about "We've done the thinking for you."
And people wonder why Apple users are a part of a cult?
Constructive criticism of the platform and its perceived issues are not attempts to "troll" or "spread meaningless FUD".
Then criticize the platform if that's what you want to do. All you've done so far is criticize the behavior of the various OEM's. You've been told over and over that if you want an Android device that gets guaranteed updates you get a Nexus. Since this article is about Jelly Bean, do you have any specific criticisms of it? Otherwise you are just continuing an off-topic rant.
It's all tied in - the OEMs are the source of the problem. I am sure Jelly Bean is great, just like ICS is great. I've used an ICS-running phone (Galaxy S2) and it was a fantastic device. The OEM problem affects the entire Android ecosystem though - even those savvy enough to buy phones that can be easily upgraded. Most people are not like that, and will not even think about that as a source of potential future problems. "Is this device upgradable?" is not something most users think about. You may say "well, they should!" and yes, they should, but most don't and you're asking for a similar result if you say "well, users should just stop getting viruses!".
The Android ecosystem as a whole suffers when the majority (or a very large number - I'm not sure the proportion of devices that can't upgrade vs the ones that simply don't know they can) of devices are left on old versions of the OS. Normally this is not too big of a problem, but let's take the new API that Google just put into JB. How many developers are going to jump on that? It may not be hugely compelling, but let's say that it is. Let's say it's an amazing new API and feature set that makes Jelly Bean an absolute no brainer. Sure, all the Nexus S people can get it, and those who've rooted their phones, but what about those who simply don't update? Either because they can't or they don't know they can?
If Joe Public is on Froyo and he sees his buddy with a cool new killer app and he wants to use it, can he, if it needs JB? That depends if his phone has an upgrade path. I think it is unacceptable that his phone should be abandoned, if it can run the latest OS. That is the problem I think should be addressed.
It's not off topic, in a discussion about Jelly Bean, to talk about just who it is who will be able to use it, and whether developers will look favourably on the new features if past experience shows them that adopting them will result in an app that is only available to 5% of the user base, assuming a similar adoption rate for JB vs ICS. It's a shame.
Lol, everyone totally agrees. Next time, post that right away, big G is making us too lazy to think... soon we won't be capable of cracking boot loaders anymore and then they'll have us well and truly locked in :-9
The issue with Verizon would have easily been averted by just withholding the GSM and CDMA updates entirely until they were both ready no one being the wiser. What they did instead was release the GSM code when it was ready and waited until the CDMA stuff was Aldo ready before releasing that. But it gives you something to troll about so I guess it wasn't a complete loss.
The soylentnews experiment has been a dismal failure.
fandroids
Yep...I was wondering when the troll^H^H^H^H leopard would show his spots.
I was responding in kind to the "Fucking troll" levelled at me in an otherwise courteous discussion. I don't throw insults around very often at all, but sometimes when it's late and I'm out of tea I might respond a little snappily to being called a "Fucking troll" and respond to said person less than favourably.
Can I assume that was you, since you're continuing down this path? Whoever it was forgot to log in - so brave of them when using such grown up words!
The Android ecosystem as a whole suffers
If there are 600,000 apps in the appstore and 1 million phones are shipped with Android daily, I'd be willing to bet that a lot of other software makers would like that kind of "suffering". Have you considered the possibility that you are so steeped in the Apple way of thinking that you just don't understand Android and what makes it so compelling to so many people? Trying to view all of Android through the lense of a completely different system is folly.
Apple 3GS is an old piece of shit that is considerably inferior to any middle ground Android phones in the market, like Galaxy Ace, for example, AND more expensive.
The 3GS is free on contract (well, it's $0.01 on AT&T due to the way they handle billing). I'm not sure how that makes it "more expensive". What Android phones can you get for free that don't have a contract? Unlocked, it is certainly more expensive than an Ace, but the market for that at the non-premium end of the spectrum is pretty limited.
You also seem to be missing the point. You stated that "Unlike Apple ... you have the choice [on Android] of not paying the premium price for future upgrades if you think you don't need them". I have pointed out that Apple still sells the 3GS (for free on contract) and the iPhone 4 ($99 on contract) for those who "don't want to pay the premium price", *and* they still get updates to the latest version of iOS into the bargain (although with some features missing, like Siri), thus refuting your point that there's no options for non-premium on Apple - there are two, of varying levels of non-premium.
The issue with Verizon would have easily been averted by just withholding the GSM and CDMA updates entirely until they were both ready no one being the wiser. What they did instead was release the GSM code when it was ready and waited until the CDMA stuff was Aldo ready before releasing that. But it gives you something to troll about so I guess it wasn't a complete loss.
You still think I'm trolling? So you think it's totally ok that Android's general OEM model is one where locked bootloaders and abandoned phones is the norm?
What's your stance on Secure Boot on PCs? Do you think that it would be ok to remove the ability to disable it so that only Windows would boot on there? Then sell those machines at a discount, of course.
Whatever, if you choose to see this as purely trolling because I don't share the same opinions as you then go ahead. I'm not sure how else to rephrase it.
The Android ecosystem as a whole suffers
If there are 600,000 apps in the appstore and 1 million phones are shipped with Android daily, I'd be willing to bet that a lot of other software makers would like that kind of "suffering". Have you considered the possibility that you are so steeped in the Apple way of thinking that you just don't understand Android and what makes it so compelling to so many people? Trying to view all of Android through the lense of a completely different system is folly.
That's odd that you think I'm looking at this "from an Apple way of thinking" when my argument is that locked bootloaders are a bad idea, and that Android should mandate that OEMs that use it should provide unlocked bootloaders and a clear and easy upgrade path.
Considering the low amount of people on 4.0, it's seems almost like there's no point in releasing 4.1 at this time.
How does that follow?
Among manufacturers who simply never upgrade, the state of the present is wholly disconnected from the state of the future. It doesn't matter whether the existing devices are on 1.6 or 4.0, they are water under the bridge, the only thing that matters is what version is available when future products are in development.
Among manufacturers who do upgrade, the willingness to upgrade only matters if Google has an upgrade available. The phone vendors, so far, show an ability to improve Android nearly as tepid as their desire to do so, so somebody has to take the lead.
Well, here nothing but the lowliest cost cellphones are completely free on contact. Sure, you get discounts for locked phones, but the discounts are about the same for a Galaxy Ace or an iphone 3GS (if you are able to find one to sell in the phone operators, which you are usually not). And sorry, except for special cases, as you exemplified in your post, which are not available in most places of this world, you will still be paying a premium for a service you don't even have anymore, because you will be buying a 3 year old cellphone from Apple and paying a superior amount you would pay for much better, newer devices.
The vast majority of Android owners are running OS versions that are woefully out of date. Thus, does it even matter what is in the new version if people will never get it?
Meanwhile, my Windows Phone is up to date and doesn't have any uninstallable crapware, no CarrierIQ spyware, no weekly reports of malware and clickjacking... ...But Slashdot says I should hate my phone because apparently WP7 sucks so I don't know what to think anymore...
It is not about time fanboys loose that fiction that you are paying a premium price with Apple?
Would Apple be on track to become the world's first trillion dollar company if their claim to fame was selling overpriced products?
Isn't it true that everyone is frustrated they can not offer the same value that Apple does? Most manufacturers find it very hard to compete and most are not making any significant profit using even a free OS. That they are even able to compete means they offer cheaper flexible plastic phones and tablets instead of sturdy strong lightweight expensive milled metal. Why is that?
A normal individual would conclude Apple is an extremely well run company and they prove there is considerable value in vertical integration. Microsoft recognizes it and that is why they introduced their own tablet, why they are opening their own stores in malls directly across from an Apple store etc.
What is Google doing to support Android at retail? Do they have their own brick and mortar stores with skilled employees making up to $30 an hour for retail? Do they have an equivalent Genius Bar to aid Android users? By contrast an Apple user gets a big bang for his buck in many extra intangibles as well as a decent bit of kit in the hardware.
One of these is while it took eight months months to get 11% of Androids on ICS 4.0. It took Apple all of five days to get 33% of all iOS users to upgrade to and enjoy the latest iOS release with new unexpected features. The truth is Apple users just have a far better experience for the same or less money.
And if you never install windows, I'm guessing you'll never get Windows 8.
Going to cry about being stuck on XP? DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.
I know, I know your sarcasm. But allow us to illustrate a few gentle listeners:
XP, VISTA and WINDOWS 7... with a life 3 to 5 years between sequels *rarely* encourage developers to build Applications to nag you to upgrade. Bargain bin items till about 3 years ago commonly boasted Windows 2000 backward compat*
Yet Android versions last a year and are ripe with annoyances:
Funny, it hasn't been a full 4 years since September 2008 (compare to my numbers above for full OSs).
Since that's the year of the first Android release, we can see a forced trend like NO DESKTOP^H^H^W WINTEL PC has ever required. I recall, MacOS back in 1998 did have tons of programs that condemned you for needing OS 7.1, or 7.5 or 8.1 or 8.5, or 9.0 or 9.1 to run due to library compat --though Windows still gave you the chance of downloading, say VBRUN300.dll or whatever VC or DotNET runtime you needed. I see what phonemakers learned from that boldness to just stay quiet and block you before you download.
99.9% of people don't upgrade. Get new computer, let the OEM introduce you forcibly to Windows ME, XP, Vista, Seven, Eight... profit. Those OS upgrade boxed sets are for proactive geeks with nothing to lose but some cash.
* meaning the laziest, cheapest developers who might actually pick new SDKs to look shiny don't care if you have a dinosaur PC... it's the largest companies with much to lose who actually ostracize their userbase via platform shifts
I see this getting thrown out a lot, and I've actually been responsible for using it a few times.
The big problem with that argument is not what you (the geek) can do with it's phone, it's what common people do. The success is measured with the sales of the 99% of the people that cannot do that (and it's harder than installing windows - you first have to root the phone, get into recovery, etc etc).
This is where apple shines. If an OS is available, it'll be available for every phone that supports it. Google does the same with the nexus line but big companies don't.
But you got one thing straight. The path for Android's success has to be platform independence for (most of) the OS. Windows works fine on any machine (even macs), Any version of android should run on any Android that follows a certain specification.
For that to happen, standards have to be made. Android should be able to see what hardware was there and download the optimized drivers by itself, for example. But this is all kind of utopic, so... No, I stopped doing anything about it (on my Desire) on 2.3. It's not worth the hassle to get Gingerbread running here.
The vast majority of Android owners are running OS versions that are woefully out of date. Thus, does it even matter what is in the new version if people will never get it?
Meanwhile, my Windows Phone is up to date and doesn't have any uninstallable crapware, no CarrierIQ spyware, no weekly reports of malware and clickjacking... ...But Slashdot says I should hate my phone because apparently WP7 sucks so I don't know what to think anymore...
What a mind boggling statement from a Windows Phone user that just got their platform shitcanned and osbourned. You would think the last people to complain about Android updates would be a Windows Phone user. But no, this lemming jumps right in. Your POS phone was running on a Windows CE kernel that performed so shitty that it couldn't even multi-task correctly not to mention the plethora of other things it was pathetic at. In case you didn't know it, your OS was the crapware and thanks for beta testing for them. I'm sure they appreciate your input into their failed platform.
you just look like a cheap nerd with that tacky android shit, it's like when everybody in the parking garage is driving a mercedez and you pull in with your rice-mobile honda. yeah, you definitely look "different" but not in a good way.
Nobody forces you to buy a device from a manufacturer that won't update it. If you buy the top devices from Google or Samsung you will be upgraded to the last version eventually and will at least will stay close enough to it all the time even if the update takes a while. Enough to never worry about not being able to install any app.
If you want to buy cheap models, on the other hand, chances are you don't care a lot about upgrades, but the great majority of available apps work well on Froyo, and the great majority of the devices current on market are on this versions and above. So no real problem here. Saying otherwise is just FUD.
How many Windows Phones that people are buying right now will be upgradable to Windows Phone 8?
They don't go to Windows Phone 8, but they are all upgradeable to Windows Phone 7.8.
You still didn't tell you how exactly the "whole android ecosystem" suffers. It seems to me you want very badly to believe on it, but the truth is, very few apps require the newer versions, and when a significant amount of them do these versions are not new anymore and most cellphones already run them. It would be VERY odd if it were different than that, because app developers want their programs bought and they wouldn't target a small market when they can target a much larger one. By your ridiculous number of long-winded posts in this thread, mostly off-topic ones, it is clear that you hate android with passion. Unfortunately what you want so passionately to believe is utter nonsense.
Why does this have to be about iOS or Windows Phone?
errr...the one to answer that would be you:
"Compare that to iOS..."
Clearly you're the one trying to draw parallels to other platforms, but only when it suits your argument.
What's your stance on Secure Boot on PCs? Do you think that it would be ok to remove the ability to disable it so that only Windows would boot on there? Then sell those machines at a discount, of course.
Depends on who's doing it, obviously Microsoft can't mandate or have any involvement it as they have too powerful a market position, but if say Toshiba did it on their products there's no real problem with that, there's no competitive advantage to doing it.
I sure have and it's generally pretty fucking awesome.
That's pretty normal now, i went out for dinner with some friends the other night, 12 people, 12 iphones (mix of 4 and 4S) and i doubt anyone could tell you why they bought an iphone over anything else aside from 'well it's what most other people have'. It's gotten to the point where what was considered advanced functionality that you had to hack a device to get is now considered commodity functionality. Truth be told i no longer have the time to fuck around with my phone to get stuff working well. There's no real standout reason i bought an iphone, it has the functionality i need and given that it's the most common smartphone it's like buying a nokia used to be.
If you want to stand out you buy an Android or Windows Phone, if you don't really care you buy an iphone, they're all functionally pretty damn similar these days anyway. The days of elitist apple users are long gone (even if some people still can't let them go, and that goes for both advocates and detractors).
Google's own numbers show ~90% Android users still aren't on 4.0+, and it's been almost nine months since ICS was released.
There are still millions of Windows XP boxes even though Windows 7 is out there for years. Does that indicate that the Windows upgrade process is broken?
The upgrade from XP to 7 is a paid upgrade and it is still doing better than Android in terms of both overall volume and percentage.
Because knowing some android developers, they basically tell me the new API's and their fancy features mostly mean jack shit for them since they all just target 2.x for their apps since almost no one (relatively speaking) is running the new version. If you target 4.1 you may be restricting your app to 5-15% of the android users in the useful life the devices currently out. Due to this a lot of fancy features Android implements go unused, and app progression as a whole on Android stagnates feature-wise a bit more than it should. I personally use android (Galaxy S III) and do not hate it, but I do believe the fragmentation and slow speed of new adoption for new versions IS a problem google should be looking at. I don't think the OEMs are suddenly going to change their ways without a nudge.
It's easier to fight for one's principles than to live up to them.
you just look like a cheap nerd with that tacky android shit, it's like when everybody in the parking garage is driving a mercedez and you pull in with your rice-mobile honda. yeah, you definitely look "different" but not in a good way.
The ironic part about your post is that the high end Android phones crush your generic iPhone with its small little screen. Think different was never intended to be interpreted as being an individual. It was just Steve's master plan to make all of you sheep think the same way so you could carry out his commands much like a botnet tells its bots what to do.
WP users are so Stockholmed that they're now congratulating Microsoft for rendering their phones obsolete and praising them for throwing them a pathetic little UI update that's going to make their obsolete phones look like the OS they'll never be able to even use. They're essentially back to square one and the astrotrufers are now telling us to wait for WP 8 just as they told up to wait for WP7.
Would Apple be on track to become the world's first trillion dollar company if their claim to fame was selling overpriced products?
Of course, just look at their profit margins.
doing what ever apple users do
I can't tell you exactly, but it IS against Sharia law
Oh, thanks, that explains the 28 updates to all my Google Play apps that appeared out of nowhere and killed my tablet productivity this week. I can't wait to see what my data plan charges will be as a result of this update.
Kriston
I see absolutely no problem with that. In the near future (maybe a year or so) ICS or JB will be the most common version as Gingerbread is now. Then most app developers will be targeting these versions. Google won't ever force all OEM developers to upgrade ASAP, but time and competition naturally forces the versions up, even if more slowly than you would like. Furthermore in a market where devices have a mean life of 2 years, I see no great problem even if no updates were ever available, which is not exactly the case.
Latest market stats (as of July 2) say 10.9% are on ICS and slowly growing. 64% are still on some version of Gingerbread and 2.4% on Honeycomb tablets.
Growth rate might experience an uptick in the next couple months as carriers roll out HTC's ICS upgrades for a few of their phones, such as my Incredible S.
upon the advice of my lawyer, i have no sig at this time
There are still millions of Windows XP boxes even though Windows 7 is out there for years. Does that indicate that the Windows upgrade process is broken?
I think so. It's a combination of the fact that Microsoft charges too much for an upgrade, and there isn't any good reason for most people to upgrade to Windows 7.
This is unrelated to Android, for which most people depend on the manufacturers/carriers to deliver them the upgrade. They haven't been doing their job.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
Wow, you just listed a bunch of things that are basically irrelevant, and some that are completely wrong. One IDE or the other, it's all preference. XCode and Eclipse both get the basics alright, and both have their annoyances. Sure a Mac costs money, but less than a week of developer salary. The cost isn't an issue. Also, it is not hard to side-load an app onto the iphone for testing purposes. I kind of think you don't know what you're talking about.
You missed much bigger issues, like the fact that you have to test on so many different Android devices, or that Apple APIs aren't always backwards compatible. Both extremely annoying issues.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
you i firmly believe jelly bean will overtake ios. and other iterations of android.
But there is yet another reason. Many XP boxes are not certifiably capable or running Windows 7. A geek may try to upgrade his ancient Celeron box with a pirated Win7; he risks nothing if the box bluescreens or is too slow. But why would a business do that? An upgrade costs money in all aspects, but what will be gained? Since XP all the updates that MS produced are (in a business setting) either neutral or detrimental (Win8.) I have a few XP laptops, they will never be upgraded.
Similarly, if you package an update for Android (for each phone, perfectly good) and let phone owners know - how many, in your opinion, will accept the offer? I think 5% at most, even though the upgrade is free. Majority of phone|tablet users do not see their devices as computers; they see them as self-contained appliances - and we do not upgrade the firmware in microwave ovens.
and given that it's the most common smartphone
No, really it isn't. It can never be, either, so long as Apple's market share is 20% and Samsung continue to dominate the rest of the field.
I mean: 20 MILLION Galaxy S2s sold, that model alone.
So I go and check my "About Phone" and I see... 2.3.4! What blather are you spouting?
A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. -edward abbey
Firefox is merely following Google's example with Chrome. For reference, Chrome is currently version 20 on my machine and still looks remarkably similar to version 1.
One important difference, Google isn't using version numbers for marketing. Without looking, I have no idea what version of Chrome I'm using. It could be 1.0, it could be 90.8.5, it doesn't really matter. With Firefox I'm using Firefox 13, with Chrome I'm using Chrome. They might be competing with Google, but Google isn't competing with them, at least as far as version number inflation goes. I think Google also has a different scheme of version numbers than Firefox had, they generally bumped the principle number for internal things (API changes, etc...), where Firefox used to to do it when their product had a major, outwardly noticeable changes. Sadly they decided that people give a shit about version numbers. Chrome isn't growing because its at version 94.45.2, its growing because Firefox is stagnating and clunky feeling, and because Chrome is new and shiny.
Also, who cares if it looks like 1.0, its a browser, I never really see any of the UI, I only care about the content it displays. The best browser is the most invisible browser. At least as far as user experience goes.
A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. -edward abbey
Why does this have to be about iOS or Windows Phone?
errr...the one to answer that would be you:
"Compare that to iOS..."
Clearly you're the one trying to draw parallels to other platforms, but only when it suits your argument.
In the sense that iOS' user base is pretty much all on the current version, unlike Android. The GP then used that to frame a false comparison argument that because Android was already better than iOS (because, of voice search and nothing else), that there was no problem at all with Android. I was drawing attention to that problematic statement. Just because something is already better than something else (even if that something else is done a certain thing better) does not mean there's no room for improvement in your original thing, regardless of how it compares to the other product generally.
Well, here nothing but the lowliest cost cellphones are completely free on contact. Sure, you get discounts for locked phones, but the discounts are about the same for a Galaxy Ace or an iphone 3GS (if you are able to find one to sell in the phone operators, which you are usually not).
And sorry, except for special cases, as you exemplified in your post, which are not available in most places of this world, you will still be paying a premium for a service you don't even have anymore, because you will be buying a 3 year old cellphone from Apple and paying a superior amount you would pay for much better, newer devices.
Then... buy the newer, better device? If the 3GS is not a good deal on its face (it actually is, especially with Apple's demonstrated forward support of it with updates to at least iOS6), then get something else. You were complaining about lack of non-premium options from - I gave you two non-premium Apple options, now you seem to just want to trash the 3GS.
Do you have some kind of magic solution for fixing this problem? Google can't make the software open source and then simultaneously prevent the carriers and manufacturers from rolling their own versions with funky skins and locked bootloaders. Nor can Google force the carriers/manufacturers to update the software in a timely manner. Google can try to provide incentives, but they can't force the issue. You can have free and open software or an iron fisted regime where everyone is forced to move in lockstep, but you can't have both at the same time.
As for the idea that started this thread and that you reiterated in another branch, that there not much point in releasing a new version when most people haven't even upgraded to the latest previous version, is just crap. It's ludicrous to suggest that Google should artificially delay new improvements until "enough" people were on ICS. Microsoft developed Windows 7 even though a lot of people didn't upgrade to Vista, so there were many people, including me, who ended up jumping straight from XP to 7. That's not a bug, that's a feature. The more Android is developed the more advanced the OS will be whenever those still on old versions finally upgrade their phones. When that finally happens are they going to complain that there were too many improvements?
Meanwhile those of us who actually care about having the latest version more than any other feature will either get a Nexus phone or a phone we know we can root and update the OS ourselves. Everyone else probably really doesn't care as much about the OS version as the naysayers like to make out.
This Space Intentionally Left Blank
Right, in which case all of the comparisons of Android to other mobile operating systems should be made against the version that is 2 back from current. It's meaningless to tout the "great features" of Android (and they are pretty damn good in ICS and JB) if no one is using them and developers aren't looking to target them for another year or more.
Then you talk about a 2 year mean life of the product. I thought it was Apple users who were "locked into" the "upgrade treadmill" - now you're saying that's a positive feature of Android? Bear in mind I still use a 3GS that I picked up ages ago, and it will still be actively supported by Apple at the end of 2012 and beyond.
There are not viable non-premium options from Apple. Only old trash they are trying to dump on us for an abusive price. Your non-premium "options" have premium prices for their limited value, and therefore aren't really an option unless you want to be ripped off.
That depends. When comparing apps, sure, which is fine enough, considering popular Android Apps are mostly on pair with popular iOS apps even if most of them are designed for Gingerbread.
When directly comparing OS features high-end Android Devices do have the lastest versions, so you need to compare those new versions with iOS equivalent ones. My Galaxy S2 received ICS almost 2 months ago, for example, and it will most likely receive JB in a few months at most.
Mid to low end devices must be compared taking their price tag into consideration, and sorry no option from Apple beats the best Android devices in this region, even if they are running Gingerbread.
Do you have some kind of magic solution for fixing this problem? Google can't make the software open source and then simultaneously prevent the carriers and manufacturers from rolling their own versions with funky skins and locked bootloaders. Nor can Google force the carriers/manufacturers to update the software in a timely manner. Google can try to provide incentives, but they can't force the issue. You can have free and open software or an iron fisted regime where everyone is forced to move in lockstep, but you can't have both at the same time.
It seemed to work for GPLv3. I'm not saying the solutions are simple, but the current system is a bit of a mess and it's a shame. Not everyone who uses Android is savvy enough to understand that the should pick the Nexus, or something else in that category and then get stuck with a phone they can't update.
I have a number of friends who had terrible experiences on Android and they're universally in the "got a handset that was abandoned" category. Without exception all of those friends bought iPhones as soon as possible - one even got so fed up he did it long before his contract was up. These people are not coming back to Android. You may claim that people don't care about updating, and in the sense that they don't have that "ooh, I must have Jelly Bean" mentality, they *do* want their phones to work, especially if there are bugs or they can't run an app that their friends are using.
On the other side I have many friends who are delighted with their Android phone - but they all have things like the Galaxy S2 and S3, and other nice phones like that (sorry, can't be much more specific - they all look like iPhones *ducks* just kidding). The experience on those phones is easily as good as it is on iOS (better for some features) and they can easily update them to load bugfixes etc and use the latest apps. These are the people who will go back to Android when they want a change of handset - unfortunately they're a minority percentage of the user base, and that's a shame.
Mid to low end devices must be compared taking their price tag into consideration, and sorry no option from Apple beats the best Android devices in this region, even if they are running Gingerbread.
In your opinion - many people beg to differ, as does the sales chart which shows how popular the 3GS (and the 4) are - selling better than any other phone *period* except the 4S and, more recently, the Galaxy S3 - despite being 2 generations behind. The people buying them are doing so because they're coming off crappy low to mid Android handsets (as opposed to the really good Android handsets - I'm not saying Android is crappy), or they're brand new buyers who were waiting for a cheaper entry into the smartphone market.
So, it would seem that "no option" from Android can beat even the 3GS in the low end. If the low end devices could run JB then perhaps it would be different. Well, they *can* run JB, but whether they'll be allowed to is another matter.
Sure a Mac costs money, but less than a week of developer salary. The cost isn't an issue.
Many if not most developers are hobby developers, who have a phone, and like to fiddle with it. They don't get a developer salary, they probably don't get paid at all, well a few dollars on ad revenue maybe if they care to put ads in their app. They may or may not have a Mac. Cost for them may very well be a real issue.
...but for the love of God, why can't we just have small personal computers instead of small personal walled gardens?
Why do I have to spend hours to connect a damn bluetooth keyboard to my phone to be able to do some typing when on the go? Why?!?
My book: Friendly F#, fun with game development and XNA; my game: Galaxy Wars by VSTeam; my gamedev language: Casanova.
I bought an Xperia Play for about the same price as I could have bought a Nexus S for due to SE's ICS promise.
The only one that can be trusted is Google itself. (e.g Anything the Nexus S can do the original SGS can do).
Even then they should provide Google Experience Devices worldwide. (My Euro wifi Xoom I feel like I was mislead when I bought also).
What we need is a midrange manufacturer that doesn't use a junk 3rd party UI.
(I would like a dual sim mid range phone with at least 480x800 resolution 1GB ram)
I don't like that you don't get the developer devices pre rooted. (Not stock anymore if you have to root it).
No interest in not having root most of the best apps I have are root apps. (Otherwise I would probably use WP7 or money being no object an N950).
It is like having a managed hosting service. (For me no root no deal for personal device I supposedly own - If my workplace own's something obviously I just do whatever I am asked to ).
If by "side load" you mean "install without going to the app store" then this is what a dev account allows you to do.
Plug in the iphone to USB, click deploy in xcode.
They cannot be that good if they don't know how to use the backwards compatibility libs and do feature tests.
I would use the market as a stick (not a carrot) only allow the last 2 versions to access it. Make sure the OEM's keep the software upto date at least for the lengths of contracts.
I would remove market access for OEM's that lied as well. (They would fix it pretty quick if all customers are complaining of a given product line).
Apple is good in the way if you try and bullshit them you get told to f*ck off
There is a new PDK I dunno what it does (If it will be available to AOSP as opposed to OHA Android or not even) but it supposedly helps porting new versions of Android allot faster.
(The OEM User Interfaces are dire and never written even according to the best practices).
Google's apps managed just fine to use stuff if it is and is not available.
Don't like that they removed the native support for sqlite it was much faster in GB than ICS.
A proper C API would be nice as well.
True but wasn't that the point? You buy a more expensive model if you want something better, and if you don't want the better phone you have a choice of buying an older less expensive model. The important point was that even their three year old phone gets the latest OS update on the same date as it's released for the latest phone.
What is the current situation with multitrack audio and MIDI recording for Android? Is it feasible? What about latency problems? Share your experience.
Yeah, but when you get a new handset, you renew your contract. You want the latest Android features? Well, you're on contract now, so screw you. Your contract is finishing up? Here's a phone with all the new features, which you're eligible for a few months before your contract ends (to combat jumping carriers) assuming you renew your contract with us.
As long as they can get customers to stay with them, it's beneficial if you keep the equipment you have as long as possible.
They can only get contract renewals by binding them together with handset upgrades, so they are very much incentivized to get you to to upgrade your equipment at every possible opportunity. They don't really care all that much whether you stay with them off-contract, they actually report company health by the number of new contracts. Try running for a few months past the end of your phone contract without renewing. They'll try all sorts of things to get you on a new contract. I had to threaten Verizon to leave them if they didn't stop bugging me about it. That didn't stop the calls ("it takes 4 to 6 weeks for that to blah blah blah"). I only got the calls to stop by asking for a manager, telling the manager I didn't care what she had to do, if I got even one more call - no matter what I was doing when it came in - I would do whatever it takes to cancel my service on the spot, and I'd be sure to mention her name, and that I warned her of my plan. I didn't get another call after that.
This is similar to how cable companies report their performance. Try getting a business phone line from Comcast. When they leave, you're going to have an effectively free TV drop too. For us our TV drop is behind the whiteboard in the conference room - we didn't really want another jack in the wall, and they said it didn't qualify if it was in the electronics closet. It also saved us a few percent per month over having *just* phone.
Slay a dragon... over lunch!
Do not fee... Ah bollocks.
I bought my daughter an S2 last night (in truth, the day before but it was delievered last night).
Like with all new electronics in this house, I make sure the instruction have been read and all updates applied.
"You're not playing with it until I've upgraded to ICS", I said because, like everyone else, I'd been spun the line that no one uses it.
After signing her up for a Samsung account, I navigated through to the options and tapped update. There were no updates. Strange. Tapped again, being an idiot, expecting a different result. Nothing. No updates.
Seems it now ships with 4.0.3. Happy days.
Stop spinning the line.
This post contains benzene, nitrosamines, formaldehyde and hydrogen cyanide.
I don't know in which world you live, my friend. Apple still dominates the high end tablet market, and will from a long time, but, the market for low-end and mid-end devices (be it cell-phones or tablets) is Android dominated, and as far as mobile phones are concerned Apple manages to tie up in high-end devices with Samsung. US market is distorted by agreements between Apple and the operators as you pointed before, but that is a localized phenomenon, the World is a lot bigger than that...
The amount of people who get so hung up on a single number baffles me. What's the difference between going from 1 to 2, or 1 to 1.1, or 1.0.0.0.0.1? Nothing at all.
Frankly integer version numbers are easier to use anyway, especially as a programmer. (write code that checks for 5 and above vs 2.1.30.b.)
Blatant Advert: Android Apps!
This is the most ridiculous claim I read everywhere regarding iPhones: the fact that even the 3GS still gets updates without cerains parts. You want to know what 'certain parts' are?
Pretty much every fucking thing that matters. Check here.
I own a 4S and an iPad 2 and I'm pretty sure next year I'll already see some stuff not being released to the 4S - hell, even the iPad 2 don't get FaceTime over celullar (yeah, a lot of technical reasons you know...)
Please stop saying that even the 3GS gets upgrades. At most it gets security updates which I agree it's good, but upgrades? No fucking way.
http://stoploudness.org/
That's simply not true. There's a large market for used and new phones outside of the carriers. Just look on eBay or Craigslist.
It only matters that a customer continue with the carrier, not that they sign a x year contract extension. AFAIK, all the carriers do month-by-month contract extensions automatically when the original term ends. Sure, they'd love to lock you in for a longer term, but they actually make more money if you don't. You're also incorrect, in that carriers may offer other incentives for new contracts (sign up now, get twice the data for the same price).
VZW's recent moves to eliminate unlimited data and charge a $35 upgrade fee if a customer gets a new, subsidized phone shows that it's the service revenue they care about, not the hardware. Neither of those provides an incentive to upgrade with subsidized hardware.
"National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
I see all the Fandroids have modded me down (while a few reasonable people modded me up).
My point is that until Google can get the carriers, et al. to upgrade Android devices to the latest version, the only reason for pushing out new releases is to sell new phones. Even that's not quite true since some "new" phones don't even come with the latest version of Android. Compare that with Apple where the newest iOS can run on at least phones sold within the last 2 years. Yes older phones don't get all the newer features that new phones do, but at least they get the latest iOS.
Hobby developers & college students, the reason why 99% of everything on google play sucks.
Prior to the iPhones success, nobody without a mac would even have WANTED to develop for it. The whole point was a phone to go with your mac, sync contacts to your computer. Anybody who gives the excuse of not having a mac as their reason for not developing would only be developing from a "me too me too!" stand point in the first place.
Despite the fact that you CAN develop android apps on windows, linux and os x, OS X has in my (and others) experience been the path of least pain. USB debug drivers just work on the mac. On the PC I had to go install 3rd party drivers, modify driver configs, etc blah blah. I used to go back and forth between mac and pc, now I just stick to the mac.
Nobody forces you to buy a device from a manufacturer that won't update it.
Exactly! This is why I don't get anything from a manufacturer that only uses the OS they use because it was free to them. Made that mistake before. Now I use an iPhone.
6 or 7% of total handset users? What percentage of those people bought handsets before ICS existed?
- Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
And you only get to choose from Apple made hardware. If you only choose from Google-made hardware, you get the latest updates too.
The difference is, with Android, you don't have to choose Google made hardware. You may not get software updates, but you do get alternate hardware options, like full 3D support, damage-proof, water resistance and other options.
Where's the drop-resistant water-resistant daylight bright iPhone exactly? There isn't one. By licensing Android to other handset makers Google ends up with older versions in use on hardware that won't run the newer OS but there's more user choice too.
- Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
This is no different from a kiosk display running a locked bootloader with Windows installed. The user chooses to buy a product that's locked down to get certain features the manufacturer wasn't willing to make otherwise. The user can also choose to buy a Nexus series and not have these issues (or a regular PC in the Windows analogy).
There are also locked-down Linux boxes (see TiVo) which annoy some people -- you don't have to buy them though. Come on people, stop feeling 'forced' to spend your money when its not a product you want.
- Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
Most of the ICS and JB API are backward-compatible right down to 1.6 Doughnut. So yes, in all likelihood, that buddy can just download the app and use it, appbar and all.
The guy with the ICS or JB phone will just get more features out of that app.
- Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
iOS development is only on OS X, only with specific tools and doesn't support live debugging with a regular phone plugged into the hardware.
Android allows development on the computer of the developer's choice (go ahead, tell a mechanic they can only use tools from one tool company and see how far that goes for you), allows debugging on nearly any device via USB connection and can be done with any software tools the user wishes, even command-line with no GUI.
Yes, developer choice is important because many developers aren't willing to change their entire ecosystem to suit one device.
- Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
Upgrading from XP to 7 requires sending money to Microsoft. Upgrading android versions doesn't require sending money to Google (it probably does require work on the device makers part though).
And I don't think the issue is that existing devices aren't upgraded (though that is an issue), it's that if you buy a new device today you'll probably get a year old version of Android on it.
Huh? Carriers make their money on service, not hardware.
Wrong. Completely wrong. Carriers make their money on services AND hardware. They rarely sell hardware at a loss. In general, they sell you hardware at a profit and at a price such that they've earned the equillent of and nice intrerest rate on your two year purchase - at least in the US. This isn't true for most of the rest of the world, but its very true in the US.
That $600 phone you purchased on a two year contract is actually a $350-$450 device. At the end of that contract, they'll rebate you $50-$100. Over the life of your two year contract, for a $350-$450 phone, you paid ~$600-$650. Minus a rebate, your actual out of pocket is $500-$600 on a $350-$450 phone. That's a hardware profit of $50-$150 profit per phone, per customer. You would have to be completely out of touch with reality to believe that's not making money on hardware.
No bones about it, for US carriers, hardware sells most definately are a big profit margin for them. Which is exactly why they are so reluctant to move to outright purchases and discounted rates. AFAIK, T-mobile is the only US carrier to do so, and the discounted rate isn't very much, which means they make ALMOST hardware profit for not selling any hardware with the account.
Good for you - you're obviously in that 5 or 6% who have phones that receive updates (or are able to be trivially updated). The vast majority of Android users are not like you, as shown by the stats.
It seems like a good reason to buy Google-branded devices. More likely to get updates, since they're more likely to want you to run the latest version?? (ie, more potential Play sales)
Yep, and their app will be lost in a cloud of similar, useless apps.
Far worse than that is the fact that the iPhone isn't open.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
This is where apple shines. If an OS is available, it'll be available for every phone that supports it.
This feat sounds far less impressive when you realize that this includes 3, maybe 4 phones, and a handful of other devices... that were all designed and manufactured by Apple (in California (tm)). I'd be surprised if they *couldn't* keep them all up-to-date. But especially amusing is the fact that some iOS updates make older devices perform like shit -- when you have complete control of the extremely limited variety for a platform, there's really no excuse for that whatsoever.
--Jeremy
Jesus was a liberal
The great thing about Android is choice. If OS updates are important to you, you buy a device that will get OS updates from the manufacturer, or one that is well supported by the community. If it's just an appliance that you use to make phone calls and maybe browse the web sometimes, you probably don't give a shit about updates.
There is zero such alternative on any iOS device. The closest you get is the option to buy old, outdated hardware at a cheaper price (but it still has the trendy Apple logo on the back!) I know in your mind that less choice = good, but out here in reality, we all know that less choice is only good for the manufacturer, because of the psychological effect of making it easier to get people to buy your stuff.
--Jeremy
Jesus was a liberal
Why does this have to be about iOS or Windows Phone?
You touchy fandroids really can't seem to get past defining yourselves by how much you hate everyone else.
You're threadjacking a discussion about an update to the Android OS, talking about how it's inferior to iOS and how Android devices are inferior to iOS devices, and you accuse everyone *us* of being 'fandroids'? Nice RDF you have there.
--Jeremy
Jesus was a liberal
You've already got (at least) 20 posts in this thread, absolutely none of them about Jelly Bean. (except a couple where you assert that some less-than-acceptable-percentage-to-you will get the update).
Is Google attempting to prevent you from doing what you want on your hardware? No. Is Google attempting to lock competing device manfacturers out of the market using bullshit design patent claims? No. Is Google giving some devices 'updates' to the newest version of Android but withholding the main features from all but the newest devices (a la Siri, non-Wifi FaceTime, etc)? No. Is Apple doing all of these things? Yes.
The existence of competition doesn't diminish your ability to do what you bought your devices for in any way. If you need validation of your own choice by trying to get everyone else to also make that same choice, I have bad news for you: you're going to be disappointed. Go play in your walled iGarden that you like so much and don't buy Android devices if you don't like their feature set and PLEASE shut the hell up.
But since we all know you won't do that: fuck off, you offtopic troll.
--Jeremy
Jesus was a liberal
You forgot. Pay over $100 a year. Cross your fingers that you don't get banned.
Again, i OS' user base is *NOT* on the current version.
You cannot get all features on an i4. This makes testing much simpler when you can ignore portions of the OS that you don't get (and without a good reason).
Anyone that doesn't have the 4 S and the first two tablets get screwed over (you don't even get a complete voice assistant on the tablets... wtf?). From what I understand, you don't get maps either if you don't have a 4 S on the upcoming 6.0.
Despite the fact that some Android phones are not upgraded, users are still capable of replacing functionality with equivalent applications. You want a quick-launch-lock-screen camera? Face unlock? Voice Assistants? All easily downloadable, and roughly equivalent to having the upgrade. Can't have that on i OS, sorry.
Either way...
Other companies don't have prior access to new versions of Android, they have to start porting it AFTER Google releases it. Testing, certification, etc., all take time. APL withholds all of the updates until they are ALL ready (hence just once a year), or for the emergency patches (like the leaked root certificate issue) where there's usually a few weeks lag time because of their silly insistence on releasing everything at the same time (oh wait, it's for people like you who think that they magically work magic).
Some phones which have a small system partition cannot be upgraded, and that's the price you pay for being cheap. So yes, a large portion of people who still want high-res screens but only install a few applications will be stuck on older Android versions. Do those users care? Maybe. Perhaps they shouldn't have cut so many corners?
The percentage is now at around 10%, incidentally, and is rising rapidly (just like Gingerbread)
Fanboys will be fanboys. There's not too much anyone can say about it.
People were touting S iri the best thing since sliced bread WITHOUT USING IT, when in reality, it's really bad (even by an admitted APL fan!).
The amount of API changes between most OS versions is actually quite minimal -- especially for things that affect the user. They typically just make it easier to do certain things. I mean, what's the Facebook application need? Internet, and some UI rendering.
Stuff like the improved Notifications? That's relatively easy to design around to support both new and old (you should have the controls offered in the notification area when you hit the main application anyway)
"i no longer have the time to fuck around with my phone to get stuff working well"? What do you mean?
I don't screw around with my Android phone, and it works great. I have the OPTION to make things markedly better than any stock device out there, but I don't unless I really see the NEED for it.
I mean, how can you really go wrong with a grid of icons?
Nobody forces you to buy a device from a manufacturer that won't update it.
The problem often is not with the manufacturer, but the carrier. The carrier wants you to purchase a new subsidized phone (and the two year contract renewal that comes with it).
All of the major mobile carriers in my country have terrible Android upgrade policies, so it isn't as if I can take my business to a better carrier. My only solution is to jailbreak my handset and use an aftermarket product such as Cyanogenmod. That isn't an option for everybody.
Apple has done a much better job of forcing carriers to provide more timely updates for the iPhone. But Apple has its own set of issues regarding iOS upgrades on older handsets, specifically regarding sluggish performance and soft disabling new features. As such, the upgrade fervor on the Apple side is much more tepid.
I don't know in which world you live, my friend. Apple still dominates the high end tablet market, and will from a long time, but, the market for low-end and mid-end devices (be it cell-phones or tablets) is Android dominated, and as far as mobile phones are concerned Apple manages to tie up in high-end devices with Samsung.
US market is distorted by agreements between Apple and the operators as you pointed before, but that is a localized phenomenon, the World is a lot bigger than that...
Who said I said that Apple dominated the mid to low end? I said that they provided an option - an option you said did not exist - not that they dominated the area. Either way, the sales figures for the 3GS and the 4 demonstrate that they sell better than any other individual Android handset, but obviously not all of them combined (very obviously given the sales of the 4S and the marketshare of iOS at around 49% odd).
In other markets the competition is with other handsets though. In the UK, for example, RIM is still more than just someone put in the "other" category on the pie chart.
This is the most ridiculous claim I read everywhere regarding iPhones: the fact that even the 3GS still gets updates without cerains parts. You want to know what 'certain parts' are?
Pretty much every fucking thing that matters. Check here.
I own a 4S and an iPad 2 and I'm pretty sure next year I'll already see some stuff not being released to the 4S - hell, even the iPad 2 don't get FaceTime over celullar (yeah, a lot of technical reasons you know...)
Please stop saying that even the 3GS gets upgrades. At most it gets security updates which I agree it's good, but upgrades? No fucking way.
Yes, that's the point of the "non-premium" option - some of the new whizz bang cool stuff won't be included, but you're getting it for free on contract. What do you expect? That it has all the same features as the 4S (and whatever the new one gets)? It's a discounted, more-budget-friendly, less-feature-rich phone.
It *does* get updates though - iOS6 does add some new features and improves old ones that the 3GS *will* get the benefit from (as well as all the security updates etc). Just because it doesn't get all the same stuff as the top of the line premium phones doesn't mean that there's "no fucking way" it is being upgraded when iOS6 rolls around (or when iOS5 hit, or iOS4).
Those were the figures I saw, although someone else further down the thread said that more recent numbers as of July this year show that it is more like 10%.
Either way, it's low, and it shouldn't be. There's no reason that a large majority of Android handsets should be stuck on prior versions of the OS, or have just been left in a situation where the carrier doesn't want to push an update because it conflicts with their desire to sell a new phone instead.
ICS can run, according to Google, on anything that runs 2.x Android.
I should make a correction to this. I stated that the 3GS was free on contract and $99 off contract - it is not, it is $375 for a non-contract unlocked new one from Apple. $99 is the price for an iPhone 4 on contract. Apologies for the error.
Where do you get the idea that just because I use an iPhone I think that "less choice = good"?
My stance is against locked bootloaders and abandoned (by the carrier and OEM) phones. The iPhone worked for me so I bought it. That doesn't mean I think a lack of choice is a good thing - I had plenty of choices and examined them all before deciding on something that worked for me.
"Out here in reality" we don't jump to conclusions about what other people are thinking. Oh wait, the other thing.
Why does this have to be about iOS or Windows Phone?
You touchy fandroids really can't seem to get past defining yourselves by how much you hate everyone else.
You're threadjacking a discussion about an update to the Android OS, talking about how it's inferior to iOS and how Android devices are inferior to iOS devices, and you accuse everyone *us* of being 'fandroids'? Nice RDF you have there.
--Jeremy
As I stated to someone else, my "fandroid" insult was in response to being called a "fucking troll" in an otherwise civil discourse. It was late at the time and I was irritable. It was no excuse for being rude though, despite provocation.
I also didn't say that iOS was superior to Android. If you can point out where exactly I said that then I'd be willing to apologise, but I didn't say that at all. I merely compared the number of users of each platform who were on the current version of the OS - something that makes life easier for developers; homogeneity in large deployments - as a potential area that Android could address because it's largely down to a practice that works against the consumer.
I have actually been pretty positive about Android (certainly in other threads) and critical of iOS. I have mentioned repeatedly some of the features of Android that are much better than iOS (Swype and the ability to customise the UI to be able to operate common features quickly like bluetooth/wifi/gps being two of the biggest ones).
I am not trying to troll here. I think that locked bootloaders and carriers blocking updates is an issue. Not a giant one, or a crippling one, but something that I think Google should try to do something about.
Wow. I just posted an apology to you for being a little irritable and snapping at some AC calling me a "fucking troll" but I take it back. Goodness. You're just being poisonous for the sake of it for some reason. Because I want to talk to people about Android but being guilty of the heinous crime of not actively using an Android device?
I *want* people to get to use Jelly Bean, and have a good experience with their phone. I have seen how good ICS is on good phones. I have personally used several different ones.
I'm sorry that offering my opinion that I think it sucks that some Android users are being denied that opportunity for no good technical reason. I guess it's totally fine that their phones are stuck on Froyo. They have the choice to buy a new one! Woo! Freedom!
Sorry for actually trying to have a discussion on a discussion forum where people are going to have different experiences and opinions.
Also, I'm not sure how it's offtopic to talk about the adoption rate of the (n-1) version of Android in a thread about the n version of Android as it applies to who in the Android ecosystem will actually get to use it. Just curious on that one.
Don't see it on Goggle Play...
The 3GS is only an option if you are a complete idiot, which unfortunately is true to more people than it would be good for our poor World. Or if you give them for free, which should be classified as dumping in any serious country. Worldwide 3GS sells are inferior to many individual android devices.
The 3GS is only an option if you are a complete idiot, which unfortunately is true to more people than it would be good for our poor World. Or if you give them for free, which should be classified as dumping in any serious country. Worldwide 3GS sells are inferior to many individual android devices.
Ah, I see you have no argument. Pity.
Seriously, that's what you're going with? Ok, I suppose.
Dumping. Heh. You kids and your naivety. You'll note, obviously, that the phone is not "free", and that not everyone has the same needs as you evidently do when they make their phone selection. I find it amusingly arrogant that you should be the one to dictate what options people should choose when making a purchasing decision for a smartphone. I guess that'll probably subside a bit as you get older.
You are the one trying to dictate needs, my friend. Saying that all OEM need to update their phones even if their users don't think they need it just to fit some weird notion of "ecosystem" you have in your mind. I am just saying that whoever buys a 3GS having much better and newer options for smaller prices is a retard, but one is free to victimize oneself as much as he sees fit, you included.
You are the one trying to dictate needs, my friend. Saying that all OEM need to update their phones even if their users don't think they need it just to fit some weird notion of "ecosystem" you have in your mind.
I am just saying that whoever buys a 3GS having much better and newer options for smaller prices is a retard, but one is free to victimize oneself as much as he sees fit, you included.
Who says I'm "victimize[ing] [sic] myself"? Because you think there are better phones than the 3GS out there for less than the contract price? Again, we're back to what *you* think people should think. What if they don't agree with you, or have a different set of needs?
How do you know how much I paid for my phone? I happen to use a 3GS, but not in the US. What do you know of my circumstances that would make you believe that "better and newer" options would be available to me, or anyone like me? You're making some awfully big assumptions without knowing anything except that you personally think the 3GS is "shit".
I'm also not saying that OEMs must update their phones, I am saying that the phone should have the option to do so if the user wishes. I'm surprised you don't know what a locked bootloader is and how it affects the ability of a user to update their phone on their own terms. I assume this is the bit you don't understand, because I'm not sure how else to put that. Perhaps in bullet point form?
* Locked bootloaders bad
* User upgrades to latest Android version with no blocking by carrier or OEM good
* Option for carrier, OEM or user to upgrade phone as they wish
* the only "dictating" is that user freedom should be preserved.
If one of the licence requirements of Android was an unlocked bootloader from the start, and an inbuilt (optional, but on by default) periodic check for updates, perhaps the ecosystem could be streamlined. I don't know. I just feel that right now it's almost silly that so few Android users are on the current, bugfixed, high quality ICS despite the fact that they almost certainly could be and would be having a better experience as a result.
Ecosystem to Ecosystem you've got a valid point. The abandonment of phones by carriers (seems to be mainly a US thing. Though, I could be wrong) in the Android Ecosystem is a serious issue. That said, I'm not sure if a full ecosystem to ecosystem comparison is valid in this instance. For the longest time in the US market the iPhone was an AT&T phone. Single model, single carrier. Based on that exclusivity Apple was able to gain the majority control of the device, something which up to this point was generally not the case and still isn't. That is the single reason iOS updates are as good as they are. Once they had that for a period of time it was pretty hard for Verizon to demand full control. So, now you're at two carriers and still only a handful of active models.
This is far more analogous to the Nexus subsection of the overall Android ecosystem. I'm sure you may feel that I'm cherry picking, however I believe it is valid in this case. I'm not sure Google could, with the open source nature of Android, make the demands you're suggesting without destroying that open source nature and doing serious damage to the rest of the ecosystem. Whether that is desirable or not is a separate question and I'm also not debating whether your suggestions are good ones or not (they are).
Locked boot loaders suck. Locked phones suck. True for iOS and for Android. However, as has been said before the vast vast majority of people don't seem to give a damn. If they did, they really would be buying the GNEX from either Google directly or from VZW (as I did). Sales says they aren't. The GNEX is doing well but certainly not as well as the SGSIII is likely to.
I was raised on the command line, bitch
"Nemo me impune lacesset"
I am all for user freedom, but anyone capable of flashing a custom ROM is able to execute the procedures to unlock the bootloaders on most devices. No OEM is forced to unlock their bootloaders, but none are forced to lock them either, and some don't. If you want an unlocked bootloader buy from an OEM that offers you one or unlock it yourself. Problem solved.
Users can have about as much freedom as they want with Android phones, they just have to research a bit before buying as is the case with EVERYTHING you buy.
About the 3GS, really, it is a stupid acquisition, but I am not trying to force anyone not to buy it, just pointing something that should be obvious. You are free to disagree, but that does not make it less true. You can whine forever about it. It won't make a difference.
Serious question: I wonder what percentage of Android users know what version they have? I would be surprised if it were in the double digits. How many of those could name 3 new features in 4.0 or 4.1?
This whole fragmentation argument is by geeks, for geeks and the genpop is about as concerned about smartphone OS updates as they are with desktop web browser updates.
Yes, jelly bean is the best operating system from Google due to project Butter.
fact - the low adoption of updates due to deliberate feet dragging or outright abandonment to force new phone sales.
Right, and 99% of linux installations are less than kernel version 3.0, which came out years ago. The embedded ones (routers / TVs etc.) are mostly at a version released a decade ago.
maybe Google could try to do something about it.
And yes, Linus (and other copyright holders of linux kernel) could do something about it. License it to only network capable devices, likely to be online most of the time. In-kernel update module, license invalid if the module unloaded. Send DMCA notices to anyone distributing "illegal" linux kernel sources with the update module removed.
It would make an awesome free and Free kernel. All the washing machines and toasters would move to linux immediately. Oh wait, they won't, nobody cares.
Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
Not everyone who uses Android is savvy enough to understand that the should pick the Nexus
Not everyone who drives a car is savvy enough to understand that "the" should not pick the Ford, but go with Honda. Obviously selling a Ford should be illegal. Fools and their money should be made inseparable by law.
are delighted with their Android phone - but they all have things like the Galaxy S2 and S3,
In other words, in spite of selling a Ford not being illegal, Honda is still being sold. Free market has the solution in this case. Rejoice.
Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
my argument is that locked bootloaders are a bad idea
Apple devices too have locked bootloaders. Can you show me your criticism of it (in appropriate story, of course)?
fact - the low adoption of updates due to deliberate feet dragging or outright abandonment to force new phone sales.
Right, and 99% of linux installations are less than kernel version 3.0, which came out years ago. The embedded ones (routers / TVs etc.) are mostly at a version released a decade ago.
maybe Google could try to do something about it.
And yes, Linus (and other copyright holders of linux kernel) could do something about it. License it to only network capable devices, likely to be online most of the time. In-kernel update module, license invalid if the module unloaded. Send DMCA notices to anyone distributing "illegal" linux kernel sources with the update module removed.
It would make an awesome free and Free kernel. All the washing machines and toasters would move to linux immediately. Oh wait, they won't, nobody cares.
Well, I guess the ones with Android phones who can't update them would care, but I guess if even other Android users don't give a fuck about them, as is evidently clear in this whole thread then I suppose my concern for their unfortunate situation is also misplaced. Message received loud and clear: screw everyone else, I'm fine.
Not everyone who uses Android is savvy enough to understand that the should pick the Nexus
Not everyone who drives a car is savvy enough to understand that "the" should not pick the Ford, but go with Honda. Obviously selling a Ford should be illegal. Fools and their money should be made inseparable by law.
are delighted with their Android phone - but they all have things like the Galaxy S2 and S3,
In other words, in spite of selling a Ford not being illegal, Honda is still being sold. Free market has the solution in this case. Rejoice.
Your arguments are hilarious non sequiturs, but I think pointing that out would be fruitless since you seem determined to be antagonistic.
You're also the first person to bring up the suggestion that selling a certain product (I assume a phone with a locked bootloader, since that's what we're talking about) should be illegal. I hadn't considered that, but it's probably not a good idea. That's probably why I didn't consider it.
my argument is that locked bootloaders are a bad idea
Apple devices too have locked bootloaders. Can you show me your criticism of it (in appropriate story, of course)?
I will state it unequivocally for the record: I think Apple's decision to lock the bootloader on iOS devices is a very bad idea. It is equally as bad an idea as locked bootloaders on Android phones. You can quote me on that. While we're here I'll also state that I agree with Android's app model more than that of iOS - I think the ability to sideload unofficial apps that don't come through the main ecosystem is something that should be optional on iOS. I definitely have stated that before.
I'm sorry, but I didn't think it was necessary to point out that my position applies to all devices, not just Android phones.
You were expecting me to hold a different position because it's Apple?
My Galaxy S2 received ICS almost 2 months ago, for example, and it will most likely receive JB in a few months at most.
If by a "few" you mean about 6, then you're probably right. But Samsung are too fucking slow with their updates. I was going to buy a Galaxy Note which was released around the same time (more or less) as ICS, but it came with Gingerbread, now I first considered it in January and thought I'll get one when they bring out an ICS update shouldn't be more than a month or so, but it wasn't released till May, that is over 6 months after ICS was released. By that time I had bought myself a cheap tablet running ICS, which meant I wasn't in a hurry to get a Note (since I mostly wanted it as a pocketable tablet), and I decided to wait a while to see if the price drops following the Galaxy S III release, then the Nexus 7 was released, and I decided to order that instead because although it may not have the "S-pen" or be as pocketable or have a microsd slot, it will still mostly satisfy my needs and it will definitely get timely updates for as long as the hardware can support them.
you said something about google "not allowing" certain things. Illegal also achieves the same thing. . Being an analogy , it is not exact , just illustrates the point. But since you don't have a real point , it is in your interest to focus on the differences.
Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
I have tried to explain how freedom and restrictions don't go together but you would rather have a linux that updates every day rather than one which drives over 90% of the top 500 supercomputers in the world. Thankfully, Linus doesn't listen to you.
Message from you , loud and clear - I don't understand open source and don't want to. But I'll nag about the variety it must of necessity cause.
Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
you said something about google "not allowing" certain things. Illegal also achieves the same thing. . Being an analogy , it is not exact , just illustrates the point. But since you don't have a real point , it is in your interest to focus on the differences.
No, it's not the same thing. Something not being allowed and something being illegal are not the same thing at all. One is a subset of the other, but not the other way around.
I'm not allowed to take metal objects into the NMR room, and the chemistry department have it as a rule and I face consequences for breaking that rule, but it's not illegal.
There are plenty of ways to set up a system of rules and consequences without the "not allowed" things being illegal. They only become illegal if a law is made, or they leverage existing laws - for example one might argue that taking a metal object into an NMR lab is technically illegal since it would fall under the banner of health and safety, but strictly speaking it is not an illegal act per se, even though it is forbidden and I'd face a ban on using the spectrometers if I contravened it.
My points were valid, yours were not, but you don't really seem interested in actual discussion, just throwing out hyperbole in the guise of critiquing my argument.
I have tried to explain how freedom and restrictions don't go together but you would rather have a linux that updates every day rather than one which drives over 90% of the top 500 supercomputers in the world. Thankfully, Linus doesn't listen to you.
Message from you , loud and clear - I don't understand open source and don't want to. But I'll nag about the variety it must of necessity cause.
Again with the hyperbole and non sequiturs. Have you ever been in a discussion before? Just curious.
I disagree: there's no valid "people are uninformed" excuse.
To compare: Windows always runs on machines both expensive and DIRT CHEAP and users do not need the level of hardware knowledge that you agree is OK for phones. Despite the obvious benefit to MS, the upgrade nonsense has never been as influential to microsoft, or they'd have expiring licenses and all the stuff I mentioned in my original post.
But to contrast: PC OEMs do NOT force you to upgrade, fully admiting that the PC world is dying in favor of practices that they could just as well port into PCs.
, it's not the same thing. Something not being allowed and something being illegal are not the same thing at all
Show me an analogy which is the exact "same thing" as the one it is an analogy of.
My points were valid, yours were not, but you don't really seem interested in actual discussion, just throwing out hyperbole in the guise of critiquing my argument.
Or you could simply look up what analogy means, and save the trouble of not understanding simple analogies.
Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
You are the one calling my argument hyperbole / non sequiturs without giving a reason, remember?
Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
You are the one calling my argument hyperbole / non sequiturs without giving a reason, remember?
You need me to explain what hyperbole is? I'm sorry, but I'm not doing your homework for you.
Explain what hyperbole is? You? Of course not. If you knew, you wouldn't call my statement hyperbole.
Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
Explain what hyperbole is? You? Of course not. If you knew, you wouldn't call my statement hyperbole.
Ok:
My argument, that there should be the option for all Android phones to be updatable by not having locked bootloaders so that users can update them to the latest version of Android if they want to.
Your response to that:
I have tried to explain how freedom and restrictions don't go together but you would rather have a linux that updates every day rather than one which drives over 90% of the top 500 supercomputers in the world. Thankfully, Linus doesn't listen to you.
Not only is it a non sequitur (what does Linus' opinion have to do with this, or the fact that Linux runs on supercomputers? Congratulations, you've pointed out that the Linux kernel is flexible and scalable, but what does it have to do with a discussion about smartphones?), you've also gone for hyperbole in trying to summarise what I'm arguing as a tactic for criticising it. That is, you're trying to make my position more ridiculous so you can attack it. I have not claimed at any point that I would "rather have a linux that updates every day", so criticising my argument by trying to claim that's what I said or meant is simply ineffective as an arguing technique.
It's also hilariously stupid to claim that "linux runs on 90% of the top 500 supercomputers" has any bearing whatsoever on a smartphone OS that just so happens to run on top of the Linux kernel.
Linux also has the same "problem" as android has : most users don't use latest version. For android you suggest restrictions by Google to be the solution, Linux also has the same option for a "solution" - restrictions by copyright holders can enforce regular updates.
In both cases, the freedom and open-source nature of (Linux/android) cause such solutions to be impossible. At the very least, it drastically reduces the free/Free/open source nature of (Linux/android) .
In both cases, freedom is more important to many of its users than using the latest version. Yet you are only sympathetic towards android users and not towards Linux users.
Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
Oops, submitted instead of previewing.
What about the poor supercomputer builder whose equipment supplier refuses to give a driver for kernels over 2.6? Linus should enforce regular updates by suing such suppliers under DMCA, of course after modifying the license.
Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
There was no killer feature missing, except maybe the fact that now the GSM hardware is available, so I can take my phone overseas instead of having to take the company's iPhone.
However, it appears that there is now no way to turn off LTE, so while before with 2.3 it was possible to turn off LTE and save battery life (a very practical option if you only need email and will be out of charging range for a while), with 4.0 that is no longer an option.
All in all, 4.0 is a good upgrade but not a must have for most people.