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Inside Virttex, Ford's Driver Distraction Simulator

An anonymous reader writes "After my collision the world went blank but I didn't see angels and harps because the highway and the crash situation were imaginary, created inside Ford's Virttex (virtual text track experiment cockpit simulator). Functioning much like a simulator for pilots, this domed virtual world on pitching and sliding stilts has been used to test car cockpits and instruments since 2001. It played a role in the development of recent center stacks such as MyFord Touch. In recent years, Ford used Virttex driver distraction research to learn more about what causes driver inattention and what countermeasures Ford can embed into cars to keep people like me from becoming another Darwinian statistic. It also gives Ford a leg up on the competition — Ford says it's the only automaker in the U.S. with a virtual reality simulator of this magnitude."

126 comments

  1. Our Shields... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Our cruisers can't repel a virtual reality simulator of this magnitude!

  2. For science by reiserifick · · Score: 2

    I wonder what they d... Oh look!!! A Squirrel!!

  3. Only? Of which kind? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ford says it's the only automaker in the U.S. with a virtual reality simulator of this magnitude.

    At this point, what automakers /don't/ have some sort of production facility in the US? Do they mean all those, or just traditionally US-associated brands? And if that, do they include Fiat-Chrysler?

    Too much wiggle room. Do they just mean 'GM doesn't have one'?

  4. First simulator? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    From the article:
    Ford says it’s the only automaker in the U.S. with a virtual reality simulator of this magnitude.

    From reality:
    http://www.gizmag.com/lexus-unveils-driving-simulator/16630/

    1. Re:First simulator? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And from the 'real' reality:
      http://www.lexus-global.com/innovation/index.html#../magazine/driveSimulator

      "Welcome to the Driving Simulator at Lexus Headquarters in Japan."

      But hey, why let facts get in the way right?

    2. Re:First simulator? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Good catch! Maybe the article should have limited it to automakers in the US. What dummies.

  5. We should test all drivers inside simulator also ! by Taco+Cowboy · · Score: 3, Interesting

    While speeding is the leading cause for most traffic accidents, one can't deny that unskilled drivers also contributed to a significant portion of traffic mayhem

    Current system of testing / passing drivers are often way too insufficient - as long as the driver can manage to drive the test car without any mishaps they are rewarded a driver license - resulted in many drivers who are totally unprepared and unskilled to handle heavy and often very tricky traffic situations (like water planing, ice-skitting, and such)

    I believe it comes time to upgrade the DMV with simulator, and those who want to obtain a driver license must first demonstrate their skills in the simulator, with all sort of situational scenario thrown in

    This can lessen a significant portion of traffic mishaps and cut down the number of traffic injuries and deaths
     

    --
    Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
  6. We need these in driver license offices by Ichijo · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Real-life driving tests are very limited in what they can test. Does the driver continue to drive the speed limit on a slippery road or when visibility is poor? Does the driver stop for pedestrians in unmarked crosswalks? If the car starts hydroplaning, does the driver let off the gas or slam on the brakes?

    We have the technology to test all of these situations and more. Why are we still in the 1950s in driver testing?

    --
    Any sufficiently unpopular but cohesive argument is indistinguishable from trolling.
    1. Re:We need these in driver license offices by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because if we realised how dangerous a lot of people actually ae on the road and tried to do something about it, those people would be up in arms over not being given their freedom to drive irresponsibly (not their words of course) because driving a car is a human right. it will be some government conspiracy to keep us down

    2. Re:We need these in driver license offices by jxander · · Score: 4, Informative

      Money, my dear boy.

      How much does each one of those things cost? Multiply by the number of DMVs that administer driving tests. Might even need 2 or 3 per DMV.

      I'm sure there are other reason as well. Moral guardians not being satisfied with "a video game" demonstrating the proper skills of real-world driving (even though you and I know better) or concerned parents blaming their Little Snowflake's failures on the machine. But money is almost certainly the main limiting factor.

      --
      This signature is false.
    3. Re:We need these in driver license offices by MacGyver2210 · · Score: 1

      I think we can afford one of those simulators in each state if we cut 10% of the military budget. Hell, we should do that just on principle.

      --
      If the only way you can accept an assertion is by faith, then you are conceding that it can't be taken on its own merits
    4. Re:We need these in driver license offices by stepho-wrs · · Score: 1

      How much does an accident cost?
      Remember to include:
      - physical damage to property (your car, other car, fence, brick wall, light poles, baby carriage, etc)
      - ambulance, police, fire, tow truck costs
      - hospital costs
      - funeral costs
      - litigation costs (your car ran into my garden and destroyed my prize winning roses, so I'm going to sue you)

      Preventing at least a few accidents costs way less than these machines used to educate drivers.
      Knowing the stopping distance of your car at 60mph in the wet is way more important than knowing the 0-60mph time.

    5. Re:We need these in driver license offices by Ichijo · · Score: 1

      More importantly, how much would it cost per driver license applicant? If you can't afford to be properly tested, why should you be allowed to operate deadly machinery in the presence of others?

      --
      Any sufficiently unpopular but cohesive argument is indistinguishable from trolling.
    6. Re:We need these in driver license offices by ethanms · · Score: 1

      Does the driver stop for pedestrians in unmarked crosswalks?

      What's an "unmarked crosswalk"?

      Wouldn't a crosswalk, by definition, be "marked"? So do you really mean "pedestrians crossing without a crosswalk?" or "jaywalkers"?

    7. Re:We need these in driver license offices by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're still supposed to stop for them if at all possible. If they walk out in front of you with no time to react, it's one thing, but you don't get to plow someone down just because they're jaywalking.

    8. Re:We need these in driver license offices by Politburo · · Score: 1

      No. Unmarked crosswalks exist at many intersections. Use Google. Varies by state, I'd imagine.

    9. Re:We need these in driver license offices by karnal · · Score: 1

      I was talking with a co-worker in Germany about motorcycles. I probably put $300 into my training - $250 for the beginner's motorcycle class (which got me my license) and $50 in costs to BMV in Ohio for license and temps. In Germany, they have approximately a 1400 pound expenditure before they're certified to ride on the motorways. This includes hours of testing and skills practice.

      My thoughts regarding "oh noes, the cost!!!" - it would just be passed on to the customer. Would it outrage a lot of people? yes. But given the way that getting a license is so much of a cakewalk in the US, I think it might be a good idea to pursue.

      --
      Karnal
    10. Re:We need these in driver license offices by cusco · · Score: 1

      In most states pedestrians have the right of way wherever they are. Doesn't matter if they're crossing the freeway, you're not allowed to run them over.

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
    11. Re:We need these in driver license offices by T+Murphy · · Score: 1

      Quick solution: use these simulators for a separate certification that gives you a substantial break on insurance. Private companies can buy the simulators, offer courses and administer the certification. Proper inclusion in the DMV can come later, especially as the price on the simulators comes down.

    12. Re:We need these in driver license offices by jxander · · Score: 1
      I like it. It's certainly the most realistic solution. Possibly even have the sims purchased by the insurance companies themselves. Some bean-counter could math it out and make it work, might even weigh on insurance decisions and/or be useful ammo between insurance companies "Our driver was SIM certified, so clearly your driver was at fault. Pay up"

      Still a lot of people that would need to be convinced, but this is at least somewhat in the realm of reality

      --
      This signature is false.
  7. Here's a clue... by GrahamCox · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Stop filling cars with stupid user interfaces for electronic systems that require close visual attention to use! Touch screens are stupid in cars - there's no tactile feedback so you HAVE TO USE YOUR EYES! I think GM are worse than Ford in this respect but they're all at it, even top-end marques like BMW and Mercedes.

    I want physical switches with positive tactile feedback whose function is clear and doesn't keep changing in different "modes" just because you're too cheap to provide a separate switch for different things. Cars of the 1960s with great big toggle switches on wooden dashboards were easier to drive than this.

    1. Re:Here's a clue... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      BMW has steadfastly refused to include touch screens, exactly because they require you to take your attention off the road to use. BMW uses a rotating joystick controller located near the shifter, and the UI is designed so that you can glance to and from quickly with little need to maintain context. They also insist on placing the screen very high in the dash to minimize the distance your eyes have to travel when glancing at the screen and maximize your peripheral vision while you are looking.

      They also have a full cockpit simulator where they do extensive driver attention studies. Say what you will about the iDrive system, but it gets top marks for minimizing driver distraction.

    2. Re:Here's a clue... by Cute+Fuzzy+Bunny · · Score: 1

      Cars of the 1960s with great big toggle switches on wooden dashboards were easier to drive than this.

      I flew into quite a few of those dashboards as a child, since seatbelts weren't in half the cars then. Plus if they were, we never wore them.

    3. Re:Here's a clue... by TubeSteak · · Score: 1

      Stop filling cars with stupid user interfaces for electronic systems that require close visual attention to use!
      ...

      Cars of the 1960s with great big toggle switches on wooden dashboards were easier to drive than this.

      MyFord Touch was such a hit that Ford chose not to include it standard on their best selling product: the F-series of trucks.
      Why? Because it was a glitchy mess and they could not afford to jeapordize sales of the best selling truck in America.

      For 2013, they're including MyFord Touch standard on some of the premium trim packages,
      but it's a modified layout with redundant buttons and knobs for climate and radio/cd control.
      The fact that Ford is unwilling to go full retard on their line of trucks makes me wonder what they're thinking by forcing it into the rest of their product lineup.

      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
    4. Re:Here's a clue... by ashpool7 · · Score: 1

      You pretty much nailed why they are pushing this, but they're not going to listen. That's why this simulator exists. It's to fix the problem that was created by solving the problem of "make this car cheaper."

      The higher end cars have more features, and therefore even more switches. That's why iDrive came before MyFordTouch. It's also a crappier experience (more steps to do the same thing), but they're not going to back to more buttons, because that would ruin margins.

    5. Re:Here's a clue... by GrahamCox · · Score: 2

      That's why they're called "dash-boards", it's the board you get dashed against in a crash....

    6. Re:Here's a clue... by Sir_Sri · · Score: 1

      European car makers for years resisted putting basic stuff like cup holders in because they didn't think you'd want to do anything but drive. Then some of them experienced north american traffic.

      The european mindset about cars has been much more about paying attention to the fucking road than trying to watch a DVD while you sit in a traffic jam for an hour, and that has given then a bit of a leg up on making sure everything you need to be on the road is well thought out.

    7. Re:Here's a clue... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ford modified the UI so it would work while wearing work gloves, or at least that's the company line.

    8. Re:Here's a clue... by DrXym · · Score: 1

      Tesla are going to stick a 17 inch (!) tablet in the middle of their Model S. This is the most reckless sounding idea I've ever heard of. I assume Tesla haven't completely lost their minds and will put limits on what the tablet can do while the vehicle is in motion. But some functionality will have to remain - satnav, call handling, hands free, weather, radio, music etc. Packing so many distractions behind in a flat glass interface that can only be operated by looking directly at it is a recipe for disaster.

    9. Re:Here's a clue... by jaymemaurice · · Score: 1

      Just recently my Lexus rental broke down so they stuck me in an S60 - The Volvo system was MILES above anything else I had driven from a minimal distraction and easy to use while driving standpoint. It had the option to turn off the display automatically when idle, a pushable scroll wheel on the steering wheel, and full telephone and climate control buttons. The NAV screen was also close to the top of the dash and the A2DP/Bluetooth was awesome. Too bad the rest of the car was complete suckage and poorly equipped.

      I drive sucks. In the Z4 I rented, I couldn't figure out how to turn the damn screen off. It is horrible to use and you need to maintain context because you will often bump it out of the menu you want to be in. I love the screen being near the window, but if you are going to put it there you should be able to turn off the backlight at night!!

      --
      120 characters ought to be enough for anyone
    10. Re:Here's a clue... by ethanms · · Score: 1

      BMW has steadfastly refused to include touch screens, exactly because they require you to take your attention off the road to use. BMW uses a rotating joystick controller located near the shifter, and the UI is designed so that you can glance to and from quickly with little need to maintain context. They also insist on placing the screen very high in the dash to minimize the distance your eyes have to travel when glancing at the screen and maximize your peripheral vision while you are looking.

      They also have a full cockpit simulator where they do extensive driver attention studies. Say what you will about the iDrive system, but it gets top marks for minimizing driver distraction.

      My Honda beats anything BMW has--it has only four controls:

      - Volume Knob (left for less noise, right for more noise)
      - Seek (doesn't matter if you push up or down as long as you always press the same one)
      - Fan (left for less fan, right for more fan)
      - Temp (left for less hot, right for more hot)

      Done.

      No "holding context" in your mind like someone else mentioned about iDrive. No screen in your face. etc. It's very simple and frankly when you are driving a car that's how it should be... I cannot fathom how we've gotten to the point of having two dozen buttons or on-screen controls for "climate control" in a car.

    11. Re:Here's a clue... by Sinister+Stairs · · Score: 1

      In the Z4 I rented, I couldn't figure out how to turn the damn screen of... you should be able to turn off the backligfht at night!!

      It can be turned off (or dimmed) in my 2007 BMW under Settings | Display, if memory serves. (Settings is accessed by pressing the dial down, rather than "bumping" it like all the other menus.) I mapped that function to one of the steering wheel controls for the precise reason you gave, so with a press of the button it turns on/off at night.

    12. Re:Here's a clue... by Sinister+Stairs · · Score: 1

      I don't know which BMW you were comparing with, but mine has the exact same controls you mentioned: Dials for volume and temperature, and buttons for seek and fan.

      I don't agree with the GP that "iDrive...gets top marks for minimizing driver distraction" either, but your assessment about requiring a screen and having a dozen buttons is wrong.

    13. Re:Here's a clue... by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      European car makers for years resisted putting basic stuff like cup holders in because they didn't think you'd want to do anything but drive. Then some of them experienced north american traffic.

      Yes, it's particularly inexplicable that the closest thing that the W126 mercedes (S-class!) have no cup holders, just some of those little circles on the flimsy glove box lid that you could maybe put teacups on... but it's got three ashtrays. Now look, if you're thinking I might want to smoke, why not think I might like to drink, too?

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    14. Re:Here's a clue... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Being unintuitive and requiring constant context are different things. BMW iDrive got a major upgrade in 2009 where the UI went from bad to decent, but even in the bad days it was good about not needing constant attention during use.

      As other have mentioned, the screen does turn off, and if you do that a lot you can assign a radio button of your choice to toggle it. The bumping out of menus issue is no longer a problem with the 2009+ UI, which is mostly driven by rotation and not by using the control like a D-pad.

    15. Re:Here's a clue... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well sure, but GPS vs. no GPS is a different argument. BMW's system rates well in terms of distractedness compared to competing navigation systems.

  8. Ford isn't the only one with a simulator. by Rei · · Score: 1

    Anyone remember the Toyota Simulator which went public after the brake pedal / floor mat issue? ;)

    (Apparently the site is dead, here's what you saw when you went there (on loop): link)

    --
    The chloride owes the sodium money.
    1. Re:Ford isn't the only one with a simulator. by Intropy · · Score: 1

      That's not "of this magnitude." It's of a similar, neighboring magnitude.

    2. Re:Ford isn't the only one with a simulator. by GuldKalle · · Score: 1

      I was thinking more of this http://youtu.be/Bi_GkDqON_s
      A order of magnitude larger than the Ford one.

      --
      What?
    3. Re:Ford isn't the only one with a simulator. by InsaneMosquito · · Score: 1
    4. Re:Ford isn't the only one with a simulator. by cusco · · Score: 1

      Yeah, the "of this magnitude" would be the only difference. My uncle used to work at the Chrysler Proving Grounds, doing fun things like crashing cars into brick walls and dropping a safe on them from a crane. They were running a simulator by at least the early 1970s, and it did lead to changes in Chrysler vehicle designs (in particular moving the stupid high-beam switch off the floor).

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
  9. Re:We should test all drivers inside simulator als by Nerdfest · · Score: 5, Informative

    I would say that speeding is the cause of near zero traffic accidents. It merely magnifies other causes (and effects).

  10. Re:We should test all drivers inside simulator als by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Indeed, the accident requires somebody to stop, if nobody slowed down, everybody would go too feast to hit each other.

    Thus the solution is to require all vehicles to accelerate into infinity.

  11. Re:We should test all drivers inside simulator als by retchdog · · Score: 1

    but these now-immobilized people might vote for public transit. that would be catastrophic. we'd better revoke their voter registration at the same time.

    --
    "They were pure niggers." – Noam Chomsky
  12. I have answers for them by Lumpy · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Cellphone Jammer enabled al any speed above 10 mph. washer fluid squirts in the eyes when they look down for more than 3 seconds. brakes jam on and airbag deploys at 5X normal force when they change lanes without looking and a motorcycle is detected next to the car.

    Electrical jolt from the steering wheel and seat voltage increases with speed and proximity to the car in front of them. Tailgaiting gets you 160,000 volts at 400HZ AC.

    Lastly built in taint puncher built into the seat what is triggered every time the mirror is used to check the face or makeup.

    --
    Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    1. Re:I have answers for them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, riiight, no idea what planet you live on (planet Bad Humor?), but
      in reality that would land them in jail for physical assault, attempted murder or outright murder.

      Also, in what backwards universe do you live, where punishment is still considered something that solves problems.
      Hint: It only makes things worse. Everyone but small children has realized this a long time ago.

      How about instead, you know, improve their mental capabilities so the can handle these situations or know not to do it because they can’t (yet). No, actually expecting any kind of learning from an American is a grave offence, extreme insult and of course completely unacceptable in the USA... right? The only people that it's legal to insult and treat like shit in the USA, is of course intelligent people. Ignorance and stupidity are the hallmarks of the USA today, riiight?

      NO

    2. Re:I have answers for them by MacGyver2210 · · Score: 1

      I hate talking/texting and driving as much as the next guy, but I want my internet radio on my phone while I drive. I don't need to touch/look at it for that, and a cell jammer would stop that from being possible. Maybe if they can block the calls without blocking the 3G...hell, I'd have it on all the time with me, so I can use data but no annoying calls.

      --
      If the only way you can accept an assertion is by faith, then you are conceding that it can't be taken on its own merits
    3. Re:I have answers for them by Firethorn · · Score: 1

      I recently figured out that a true self-driving car option(not the car, just the option) should be worth it at around $25k for the 'average' driver that commutes 1 hour a day, for 15k miles/year, that values not having to drive at $10/hour, and using an autodrive system that eliminates 90% of accidents.

      --
      I don't read AC A human right
    4. Re:I have answers for them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      as long as we let the mentally inept drive cars, maybe the threat of physical harm will make the complete idiots drive better?

    5. Re:I have answers for them by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      Because the AARP and other groups whine like big babies when anyone tries to make drivers licenses harder to get and keep. Almost ALL people drive as if they are without punishment. I'm in MY car you cant get to me. My car, I get to run that red light... MY CAR I GET TO DRIVE FAST AND RISK YOUR LIFE YAAAAAGGGH!

      And what nut thinks that you don't learn from negative reinforcement? Please go touch a hot stove and burn your hand, by your example children will love burning their hands because it encourages them to touch it more.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    6. Re:I have answers for them by LocalH · · Score: 1

      Here's why your answers are bunk:

      1) Cell phone jammers are illegal. They will also prevent emergency personnel from getting the calls they need to get. Or do you think that emergency personnel shouldn't be able to drive?

      2) Squirting washer fluid in the eyes? Really? So you advocate blinding them even longer while the car is moving? Brilliant idea there, dumbass.

      3) Slam on the brakes and deploy the airbag? So now, not only does the guy behind them wreck, but you've possibly broken someone's neck.

      4) Electrical shock? Really? So you propose the death sentence for those who tailgate? 160kV at 400Hz indeed...

      5) Taint puncher? Really? So if someone looks into the mirror, you propose that they lose control of their vehicle for a much longer period of time, once again becoming a larger safety hazard than before?

      You must remember, the vehicle is still moving and still on the road. When your "solution" causes more problems than the "problems" that it's trying to fix, then maybe your "solution" is nothing but bullshit.

      --
      FC Closer
  13. Re:We should test all drivers inside simulator als by Taco+Cowboy · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I would say that speeding is the cause of near zero traffic accidents.

     
    Speeding vehicles in the hands of the inexperienced drivers are very very deadly

    On the other hand, most experienced drivers do not drive like crazy
     

    --
    Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
  14. Re:We should test all drivers inside simulator als by markdavis · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Sorry, but speeding rarely is the CAUSE of any accident. Speed differentials can be. And accident damage will increase with speed. But going fast does not, in itself, cause accidents.

    And by definition "speeding" is *ANY* speed over the speed limit. Since 98% of people drive over the speed limit (they do here at least), how is it that 98% of cars are not in accidents?

    The leading causes of accidents are probably:

    * Failure to stop in time because of following too closely
    * Not looking/knowing what is in a lane before changing lanes
    * Distracted driving of any sort (passengers, phones, controls, etc)
    * Falling asleep
    * Intoxicated driving
    * Reckless driving (weaving, lane splitting, running lights, chicken, etc)

  15. Shelby Cobra by theshowmecanuck · · Score: 1

    They aught to put an original Shelby Cobra cockpit (or facimile) in this and sell it as the ultimate car racing game/simulator. All the Zuckerbergs of the world would lap it right up.

    --
    -- I ignore anonymous replies to my comments and postings.
    1. Re:Shelby Cobra by theshowmecanuck · · Score: 1

      Yeah I meant ought... ought to have pressed preview first. dang.

      --
      -- I ignore anonymous replies to my comments and postings.
    2. Re:Shelby Cobra by Harvey+Manfrenjenson · · Score: 1

      That was more or less my first thought. I'd pay real money to play Grand Theft Auto in this.

  16. Watching from outside is even more fun by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's amazing how much that dome sloshes around to simulate driving G-forces.

    AC

  17. Lol. the “only” one by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ford says it's the only automaker in the U.S. with a virtual reality simulator of this magnitude.

    1. "in the US". Translation: Everyone outside has this since forever.
    2. "of this magnitude". Translation: Everyone inside has one too, but 1 inch shorter because our cars are so huge.
    ;)

    Not saying that's the case. It just highlights how much nonsense their statement is.

  18. It'll be completely useless because... by Cute+Fuzzy+Bunny · · Score: 1

    ...their baseline will be someone that knows they're being tested in a distracted driving simulator. They sure as hell won't be texting while putting on makeup, eating a cheeseburger, reading the paper and watching tv like they normall do.

    1. Re:It'll be completely useless because... by MacGyver2210 · · Score: 1

      If you RTFA you would know that the participants have no idea they are in a motion simulator, and only know that they are testing a car in a dome-shaped room with a car in it. They don't get to see the crazy robot legs, as they enter from a closed-off jetway.

      --
      If the only way you can accept an assertion is by faith, then you are conceding that it can't be taken on its own merits
    2. Re:It'll be completely useless because... by Sir_Sri · · Score: 1

      They still know they're testing a car though, why would they try and bring a cheeseburger with them or start trying to text. Demonstrating how stupid those things are is much about finding someone who belligerently believes they can, asking them to prove it, and watching them fail.

    3. Re:It'll be completely useless because... by jaymemaurice · · Score: 1

      I have failed many times at eating and driving - every time it's because I give priority to the driving. The results have meant that often I have to change, clean my car, and often buy more food and try again, or finish eating when I get to my destination. I have on more then one ocasion stuck myself with the straw or almost ate a napkin instead of a fry.

      --
      120 characters ought to be enough for anyone
    4. Re:It'll be completely useless because... by Firethorn · · Score: 1

      Solution: Test them for ~8 hours, and keep the simulator going while you hand them cheeseburgers/subs/drinks, etc...

      --
      I don't read AC A human right
    5. Re:It'll be completely useless because... by Cute+Fuzzy+Bunny · · Score: 1

      If you RTFA you would know that the participants have no idea they are in a motion simulator, and only know that they are testing a car in a dome-shaped room with a car in it. They don't get to see the crazy robot legs, as they enter from a closed-off jetway.

      If you had any idea as to how peoples minds work, you'd realize that when they know they're being tested, they act in a dramatically different manner, which renders any testing results worthless. If you don't have a clean baseline, anything else you derive is meaningless.

  19. I'd love to see what the algorithm... by Lord_of_the_nerf · · Score: 1

    ....that simulates arseholes looks like.

  20. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  21. Re:We should test all drivers inside simulator als by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I would say that speeding is the cause of near zero traffic accidents. It merely magnifies other causes (and effects).

    But it magnifies the effects by the square of the speed, so driving twice as fast is four times as dangerous.

  22. Re:We should test all drivers inside simulator als by stewbacca · · Score: 2

    That's not true. The leading cause for most traffic accidents is "failure to yield right-of-way".

  23. Re:We should test all drivers inside simulator als by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I have to disagree, although it depends on your definition of speeding. Speeding will make you run more yellow/reds, have less time to pay attention to the road and increase your braking distance significantly. The latter could lead to accidents that wouldn't otherwise have happened if the driver wasn't speeding. It depends where you draw the line though. Others could say that the distance between the cars matters more than your speed if someone brakes in front of you on the highway, but at the same time people expect that you drive at a reasonable speed when they change lanes/brake/move in and out of exits.

    So is the accident where a driver passes a red because he cannot brake in time due to his speed and then gets t-boned classified as speeding or as passing a red light?

  24. Re:We should test all drivers inside simulator als by PhilistineGuillotine · · Score: 3, Insightful

    While speeding is the leading cause for most traffic accidents

    False. http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/cats/listpublications.aspx?Id=A&ShowBy=DocType Document 811630 pages 4 and 6 demonstrate that alcohol is just as big a factor in fatal crashes. In fact, I would argue that it is a much bigger factor because a lot more people speed than drink and drive.

  25. Re:We should test all drivers inside simulator als by PopeRatzo · · Score: 2

    I believe it comes time to upgrade the DMV with simulator, and those who want to obtain a driver license must first demonstrate their skills in the simulator

    I believe the same thing about marriage licenses.

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
  26. Re:We should test all drivers inside simulator als by pipedwho · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The problem with the term 'speeding' is that it has two meanings. The first is the simple "exceed the posted speed limit". The second is "too fast for the conditions".

    The reality is that an experienced driver will drive to the conditions which in some (many?) cases may include "exceeding the speed limit", and in other cases will be driving far below the posted limit. The same driver is, however, very unlikely to drive "too fast for the conditions".

    An inexperienced (or careless) driver on the other hand is likely to do the opposite. In your example, the driver is driving dangerously (irrespective of speed). "Shooting through" red lights is idiocy on the grandest scale (again irrespective of speed), and basically means they weren't paying any attention to the road at all.

  27. Re:We should test all drivers inside simulator als by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Right, just wanted to clear things up.

  28. Re:We should test all drivers inside simulator als by Taco+Cowboy · · Score: 1, Offtopic

    I believe it comes time to upgrade the DMV with simulator, and those who want to obtain a driver license must first demonstrate their skills in the simulator

     
    I believe the same thing about marriage licenses.

     
    Luckily, for marriage, there is a thing known as "living together", ala the "try-first-if-you-like-it-let's-get-married-if-you-don't-bye-bye" alternative

    And then ... there's the totally legal "Prenuptial Agreement" contract available
     

    --
    Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
  29. Darwinian statistic? by dohzer · · Score: 1

    To be a 'Darwinian statistic', wouldn't you have to somehow contribute to your own death in a stupid way. Is the author acknowledging that he is stupid enough that he would die if other people weren't constantly looking out for him?

  30. Yes they will by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 2

    Because that's what they'll be instructed to do. The idea of this isn't to try and ferret out bad drivers, it is to see what can be done to make cars safer for bad drivers. Bad drivers are a fact of life, we use technology to try and help.

    So Ford will do tests like "Please eat lunch while you do this simulation," or "We'll be sending you text messages to read and respond to." I suppose you could refuse to do as they ask but then they'll thank you for your time and get someone else.

    The whole idea is to deliberately have people be distracted in various ways and see what things help them avoid problems.

    1. Re:Yes they will by Cute+Fuzzy+Bunny · · Score: 1

      You have a gross misunderstanding of how peoples minds work. When people know something is happening, they behave differently. As a result, they have no observable baseline, since the whole thing smells of Schroedingers Cat. The driver is both distracted and not distracted. If you watch and the subject knows you're watching, you have no idea what the state would be if you weren't.

      Do you really think the subjects will pick their nose and eat it, scratch that funny thing under their ass cheek, or any of the other 95 million things people do in a car that they'll never do in a simulation with a thousand sensors and cameras on them.

    2. Re:Yes they will by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 1

      What I think is that the researchers that built and run this thing understand human behaviour, and the data they can get, a little better than you.

    3. Re:Yes they will by Cute+Fuzzy+Bunny · · Score: 1

      And I think they understand it about as well as you do. I guess my experiences over several decades running marketing for a fortune 50 company might leave me a little shy in experience regarding human behavior.

      The core problem with these sorts of studies is that when a person knows they're being tested, they behave differently. Since you cannot establish a reasonable baseline, you cannot effectively measure benefits or changes.

      A popular study done a few years ago illustrates this quite well. A group of people were tested in a driving machine, then tested again while talking on the phone and after having consumed enough alcohol to achieve a .08 BAC, the legal limit in most states. The punchline for the study was "Using a cell phone is as bad as driving drunk!". In reading the actual study, neither the phone nor BAC led to a significant change in response time behind the wheel, but they were in fact about the same.

      So the real punchline should have been "In an instance where someone knows their driving is being tested and they're watching their P's and Q's, a phone or a couple of drinks barely changes their response time, and if we had measured their usual shenanigans behind the wheel as a baseline instead, there probably would be no difference at all".

      Ford is running this so they can advertise that they're doing work and implementing solutions to reduce driving distraction and then get people to buy their cars under the premise that they're safer. Since the accident rates from 1990 to today are about the same in terms of number of accidents and fatalities, I think its safe to say that whatever distractions you add, solve or take away, our smart little brains will find other things to entertain itself. You won't therefore improve on accidents and fatalities until you remove the driver from the equation.

      Distraction reduction is impossible without a bunch of duct tape.

  31. Test track, not "text track" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Both the summary and the article have it wrong: VIRTTEX stands for "VIRtual Test Track EXperiment", according to media.ford.com.

  32. They should teach students on these things by Beeftopia · · Score: 4, Insightful

    With 30-thousand some traffic fatalities a year, it would be well worth it.

    I mean, there are like 20-30 some common scenarios that kids could be faced with in the simulator. Experiences they could have without being actual near misses. Or hits, like the unfortunates who don't make it, or are maimed. You get your driver's test after you've completed all the scenarios and have done actual driving time.

    Experienced drivers are better because of their experience and near misses over the years.

    It would save a lot of lives.

    1. Re:They should teach students on these things by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      With 30-thousand some traffic fatalities a year, it would be well worth it.

      Wow. that's like ten 911's every year. Glad to see we got our priorities right.

  33. Re:We should test all drivers inside simulator als by jjjhs · · Score: 1

    I wonder why people need to go 10-15 or more over the speed limit? Doesn't have to be an interstate, could be a rural highway (one lane) or any road. Most of the time they just get to a red light or stop sign faster. I don't go more than 5 over, because there is no good reason to. I'm NOT sorry if that isn't good enough for the people behind me, either pass or mail me a check I can use for gas or legal fees.

  34. Re:We should test all drivers inside simulator als by slashmydots · · Score: 1

    The slower I'm going, the less attention I'm paying. If it was legal to go 90, I'd be paying pretty damn close attention to the road! It actually makes it seem suicidally dangerous to eat breakfast or do your hair so people wouldn't even try it, lol.
    By the way, I believe we have a video clip of this simulator in action...

  35. Re:We should test all drivers inside simulator als by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

    Speeding is the cause of *all* crashes. Just like having a dead hooker who died of a heroin OD in your trunk when your car breaks down on the train tracks makes the train/car crash "alcohol-related", all crashes are, by definition, speed related. And driving too slow for conditions is used to justify laws against going faster.

    The problem is that the politicians have more interest in the laws than the engineers, and appearing to do something by doing the opposite of what you say you are doing is better than doing nothing.

    The driving tests are "if nothing goes wrong for the next 5 minutes, will you cause a crash?" If you go 5 minutes crash free, you get a license. Even if the first time something "odd" happens you do cause a crash. And testing in simulators helps with that. But I've tested in a cheap simulator, they suck. There is insufficient feedback about speed, it feels like you are sitting still (because in the cheap simulators, you are), so you go too fast. You also stop deliberately slow (simulating average stopping distances, regardless of actual driver performance).

    The testing needs to test for the unusual. Fail 50% of people, and you'll see crashes drop quickly.

  36. Re:We should test all drivers inside simulator als by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

    What's "danger"? If you define "danger" as the chance of a crash, then 4 times the energy does not result in 4 times the danger. If you define "danger" as damage when you hit a solid wall, then yes, double the speed is four times as dangerous. But I don't know anyone who defines "danger" as "damage assuming a negative event". Even risk, a defined term (danger is an emotional term with definitions that are different for most people), doesn't have that direct link. Risk is the probability of harm multiplied by the value of that harm. So the greater the damage for the same probability of incident, the greater risk. The greater the chance of an incident, when all incidents are the same harm, the greater the risk. The problem is that probabilities and damage are largely ignored and uncorrelated. High speed crashes are much more likely to have lower imapct (pun intended). You side-swipe someone for little damage. The lower the speeds, especially of one of the vehicles, the greater the damage (i.e. one person stops on the interstate, someone hits them at 45 mph in a 65 mph, and the damage will be high, and it will be listed as "speed related" when neither vehicle was speeding.

  37. Re:We should test all drivers inside simulator als by AK+Marc · · Score: 2, Informative

    If you are a designated driver, and your friend is passed out in the back seat, drunk and you stop at a red light and the car behind you falls asleep (sober) and crashes into you, you do know how that gets recorded in statistics, right? It's "alcohol related" because one of the people involved was drunk (and asleep, even if not in control of either car). When *any* alcohol in either car (including the blood stream of the dead body in the trunk) is present, the crash is "alcohol related'. With a definition like that, I'm surprised how *few* crashes are alcohol related.

  38. Better simulators exist. They're huge. by Animats · · Score: 2

    Here's the National Advanced Driving Simulator, which is in Iowa. This not only has a Stewart platform, the Stewart Platform is mounted on an X-Y table about 60 feet square. Toyota has an even bigger one with over 100 feet of linear travel.

    The need for huge linear travel comes from the need to simulate the feeling of a hard stop. To some extent, deceleration can be simulated with tilt. But at the end of a stop, deceleration suddenly ceases without a change in attitude. You can't simulate that with a Stewart platform. If you want to test people's behavior during hard braking, you need a huge simulator.

  39. Re:We should test all drivers inside simulator als by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    > speeding rarely is the CAUSE of any accident

    > * Failure to stop in time because of following too closely
    or driving too fast.
    > * Not looking/knowing what is in a lane before changing lanes
    or not allowing for a car driving faster than expected in that lane.
    * Reckless driving (weaving, lane splitting, running lights, chicken, etc)
    weaving because they want to drive faster than the flow of traffic and keep switching to a 'faster' lane.

    Two guys were killed here recently. They were _speeding_ up a long hill. At the top the curve (well marked with max speed) tightened up. As the curve tightened the _speeding_ car slid over the center line and went under a truck.

    This is not an uncommon cause of accidents.

  40. Seeing stars by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When you crash in a virtual text track experiment cockpit simulator you don't see stars... you see asterisks.

  41. Re:We should test all drivers inside simulator als by jaymemaurice · · Score: 1

    If I am on a dark empty two lane road, I often drive center so that way my lights shine further into the ditch to watch for moose on the opposite side. Obviously not when comming to hills or blind corners.

    I also sometimes drive towards/over center in areas with street parking and high pedestrain activity - again, when visibility and traffic permits.

    I have on more then one ocasion seen toddlers chasing balls come from between parked cars and animals bolt up from the ditch.

    In the UAE, often nobody indicates their lane changes... but if you are driving defensively they don't crash into you. In North America, often we think "well if they hit me, it's their fault, so let them hit me. insurance will buy me a new car" - In UAE we think "No way he's hitting me, I don't want to wait for the police or have my car incompetitantly repaired or get 60% for my car"

    --
    120 characters ought to be enough for anyone
  42. Re:We should test all drivers inside simulator als by jaymemaurice · · Score: 1

    Do you know that in fact they are actually going 10 or 15 over?

    I have oversized tires on my Land Rover, and now when it says 100km/h on my speedo, I am actually doing 100km/h on the GPS. If I do 139 the 140km/h radar does not yet flash and I don't get a speeding ticket. Prior to getting the larger tires, I thought everyone was doing 160km/h... but they weren't... they were all doing 138km/h - because they didn't want a ticket either.

    If I had been going 120km/h on my speedometer before, I would have been creating a 40km/h differential between myself and traffic which would be unsafe and would cost the people in the traffic much more in gas (them hitting the brakes and re-accellerating) then I would have saved.

    Sure, it's stupid for people to race red light to red light, but some of us would rather not spend the whole day missing every green and fartzing behind some selfish ass in the far left going 10km/h under the limit because he thinks he's saving a few cents in fuel.

    --
    120 characters ought to be enough for anyone
  43. Re:We should test all drivers inside simulator als by Firethorn · · Score: 1

    I've heard that speeding isn't the leading, so some research:
    Distracted Driving (speeding #2)
    Distracted Driving (Speeding #4)
    Not using turn signals 2x worse than distracted driving?
    distracted driving
    Disparities noticed:
    Fatigue: #20 in the first list, #2 in the second

    Anyways, I like being distracted; I don't particularly like driving. Bring on the self-driving vehicles! Or other way I can get to work/store without having to be behind the wheel.

    --
    I don't read AC A human right
  44. Re:We should test all drivers inside simulator als by Firethorn · · Score: 2

    It's not like an accident can't have multiple checkmarks on 'cause' - speeding, tailgating, running red light, AND drunk.

    --
    I don't read AC A human right
  45. Re:We should test all drivers inside simulator als by Firethorn · · Score: 1

    Per this study, that would be:

    #14 Tailgating
    #11 Unsafe lane change
    #1 Distracted driving of any sort
    #20 Drowsy Driving
    #3 drunk driving
    #4 Reckless driving

    #2 is speeding - It says your reactions slow, my correction would be that you need to react faster to avoid an accident at higher speed. The difference between 60 and 65 can be over 100ft in stopping distance, or the difference between just missing the bumper of the car in front of you and plowing through it.

    --
    I don't read AC A human right
  46. Re:We should test all drivers inside simulator als by Firethorn · · Score: 1

    If it's a rural highway, it shouldn't be known for it's numerous red lights or even stop signs.

    In town I tend to attempt to time the lights - if that means going 5mph over to hit the green I'll do it. I'll also do 5mph UNDER to get the green, if that's the way it's timed - I've seen it, and laughed at the cars that pass me doing 5-10mph over towards the red light, and are forced to stop and are just starting up again as I cruise through the light just as it turns green.

    --
    I don't read AC A human right
  47. Re:We should test all drivers inside simulator als by pipedwho · · Score: 1

    True. However, of those in your example, the cause would be "drunk", which probably led to all the others.

    If you took away "drunk", then the cause would be "running red light". If you were tailgating someone, then that is an unrelated stupidity that wouldn't otherwise cause the accident in question (which would probably be a T-boning into or by cross traffic).

    The only thing speed would have done would have been to increase the kinetic energy of the impact, assuming you were the one doing the T-boning. If it was you getting T-boned, then excessive speed may have been the reason that while spinning out of control you took out three other cars, two pedestrians and a telegraph pole. In which case speed would have definitely been a contributing factor, but not the actual cause.

  48. On another noted - self-driving cars by Firethorn · · Score: 1

    I once figured out how much a self driving car would be worth.
    1. Safety - The system is better than 90% of drivers. It may not get into the same accidents as a human driver, it doesn't get into as many, but it still has them.
    Value: ~$700-2100/year. High end is for bad/drunk drivers, otherwise it assumes a 90% average savings on insurance.
    2. Average human values their time at around $10/hour. 15k miles/year@40mph = 375 hours
    Value: $3,750
    3. Due to driving sedately/optimally, it saves 10% gas mileage. (25mpg average, 15k miles, $4/gallon)
    Value: $240
    4. System has a 5 year lifespan before needing updates/recertification
    Worth it if it costs less than $5k/year, or $25k for the system. For a drunk driver, it's more like $6-7k, $30-35k for the system. Or somebody who drives more or values their time more(as long as they can do something more worthwhile while commuting as a result). As seen in California, if it allows a single individual into the 'special' EV/HOA lanes it could be considered worth it for a substantial population even at $100k.

    --
    I don't read AC A human right
  49. Re:We should test all drivers inside simulator als by markdavis · · Score: 1

    In such a case, the cause of the accident was exceeding the capability of that particular vehicle (tires or suspension).

  50. Re:We should test all drivers inside simulator als by RaceProUK · · Score: 1

    Is the max speed a legal maximum, or an advisory maximum? If it's the latter, then speeding (the crime) was not the cause, but inappropriate speed (too fast for the conditions) was.

    This is the main problem with the 'Speeding Kills' mantra: it's not the speed itself, it's whether it's appropriate. Plus, speed doesn't kill; the sudden stop does though.

    --
    No colour or religion ever stopped the bullet from a gun
  51. Re:We should test all drivers inside simulator als by RaceProUK · · Score: 1

    Then the definition is crap. It should only apply to people actually in control of a car, not some comatose passenger in the back seat.

    --
    No colour or religion ever stopped the bullet from a gun
  52. Re:We should test all drivers inside simulator als by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "While speeding is the leading cause for most traffic accidents,"

    Please cite your source.

  53. Re:We should test all drivers inside simulator als by schwit1 · · Score: 1

    The explanation of why speed is an accident cause is childish as if speed alone is the culprit. The cause isn't speed, it's drivers exceeding their skill envelope. If you put multiple people of various driving skill levels into the same potentially dangerous situation you will get different outcomes base upon their experience, reaction times, distractions and situational awareness.

  54. Re:We should test all drivers inside simulator als by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Same thing for a drunken pedestrian getting hit by a sober driver. Alcohol-related, even though there was no drunken driving.

  55. Causes of accidents by Firethorn · · Score: 1

    Which is why I don't really want to bother testing all drivers so much as I'd love to see self-driving cars. A car that can determine it needs to slam on the brakes in 1/100th of a second as opposed to the 1.5 that many humans take means a computer controlled car can stop in a shorter distance at 100mph than a human can at 65.

    --
    I don't read AC A human right
  56. Re:We should test all drivers inside simulator als by Firethorn · · Score: 1

    It's not my study, just listing them out. Under your thinking, one could then call speeding reckless driving, which indeed happens when you're speeding excessively.

    Still, given how common it is I wouldn't consider including it as a category out of line. Personally, I'd try to only attribute accidents that could have obviously been avoided if they'd been going the speed limit - IE they attempted to brake, but due to their speed were unable to stop in time, while they would have been able to if they had been going the limit.

    --
    I don't read AC A human right
  57. Re:We should test all drivers inside simulator als by Hazelfield · · Score: 1

    Can you give a citation to that? What statistics is it you're referring to and where can I find the definition you describe? If you're correct that's some very misleading statistics but it's a pretty strong claim so I'd like to see some evidence before buying it.

  58. Re:We should test all drivers inside simulator als by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That one makes sense. After all the alcohol could have contributed to why the pedestrian was in the road.

  59. Re:We should test all drivers inside simulator als by PhilistineGuillotine · · Score: 1

    He can't because he's wrong. Same link Document 811606 "Drivers are considered to be alcohol-impaired when their blood alcohol concentration (BAC) is .08 grams per deciliter (g/dL) or higher. Thus, any fatal crash involving a driver with a BAC of .08 or higher is considered to be an alcohol- impaired-driving crash, and fatalities occurring in those crashes are considered to be alcohol-impaired-driving fatalities. The term “driver” refers to the operator of any motor vehicle, including a motorcycle."

  60. ultimate gaming rig by Khashishi · · Score: 1

    "Honey, I'm working late again today. Gotta get those TPS reports in by tomorrow morning."

  61. Re:We should test all drivers inside simulator als by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Technically correct, but the statistics are generally (mis)construed as related specifically to drunken driving, so including pedestrians overinflates those numbers.

  62. Kids in the back seat FAIL guarenteed by davidwr · · Score: 1

    Nothing could adequately simulate a brother and sister fighting in the back seat.

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
  63. Re:We should test all drivers inside simulator als by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

    "Alcohol Involvement

    "NHTSA Defines A Fatal Crash As Alcohol-related Or Alcohol-involved If Either A Driver Or A Nonmotorist (usually A Pedestrian) Had A Measurable Or Estimated Blood Alcohol Concentration (BAC) Of 0.01 Grams Per Deciliter (g/dl) Or Above. NHTSA Defines A Nonfatal Crash As Alcohol-related Or Alcohol-involved If Police Indicate On The Police Accident Report That There Is Evidence Of Alcohol Present. The Code Does Not Necessarily Mean That A Driver Or Nonoccupant Was Tested For Alcohol."

    http://www-fars.nhtsa.dot.gov/Help/Terms.aspx

    If the police indicate alcohol was involved, but nobody was tested, then it is alcohol related. And "non motorist" isn't explicitly pedestrian, just "usually" so, and in practice, police include passengers as non motorists (thought technically driver, pedicyclist, and passenger are mutually exclusive, but cops may see "driver or nonmotorist" as being "anybody", as nonmotorist isn't explicitly pedicyclist (the usual term for other non-motor road user, such as a pedestrian or cyclist, and including 'other' like skateboarders and rollerskaters).

    In short, the rule is that the person in charge of the actions that were involved should be the only ones that count, but what a cop says is the *only* measure of what is included, which means that anything and everything is alcohol related, as the cops have been told that for years and supporting that gets them more money.

  64. Re:We should test all drivers inside simulator als by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

    http://www-fars.nhtsa.dot.gov/Help/Terms.aspx

    You are the one that's wrong. If BAC is 0.01 or greater, then it is alcohol-involved. That's from another NHTSA document. So which NHTSA document is right? Depends on who's quoting it and why. Also note that the document you refer to also includes passengers who are drunk in the statistics. Those are included in alcohol-involved incidents. I never said "alcohol-impaired" so correcting me by quoting unrelated stats doesn't prove me wrong. It just proves your reading skills are poor.

  65. Re:We should test all drivers inside simulator als by airdweller · · Score: 1

    How exactly does the tire size affect the perception of the speed you're driving at?

  66. Re:We should test all drivers inside simulator als by airdweller · · Score: 1

    "The cause isn't speed, it's drivers exceeding their skill envelope."
    Do you mean that, let's say, NASCAR drivers should be allowed to drive at 200mph on normal roads? They're within their skill envelope after all.

  67. Re:We should test all drivers inside simulator als by airdweller · · Score: 1

    "speeding is the cause of near zero traffic accidents. It merely magnifies other causes (and effects)."
    Sure. And shooting yourself in the mouth with a gun isn't the cause of death. It merely magnified the effect of the bullet.

  68. Re:We should test all drivers inside simulator als by airdweller · · Score: 1

    "The slower I'm going, the less attention I'm paying. If it was legal to go 90, I'd be paying pretty damn close attention to the road!"
    I'd be very interested to see you stop at a stop sign. Must be a hilarious show.

    Also, I think you should be allowed to go 200 anywhere. You'll be the safest driver on the road!

  69. Re:We should test all drivers inside simulator als by PhilistineGuillotine · · Score: 1

    The broader alcohol involvement statistic is so meaningless as to draw the ire of the above slashdot commenters. No doubt that is why it is not used. Your original response implied that was the statistic being used in the document, and was interpreted as such by the responders below you. If you were not talking about the data I presented, why bring up an unrelated and useless statistic? Either you did not recognize the difference to begin with and are now backpedaling on semantic grounds, or you were trying to mislead readers. Either way, "wrong" is an accurate characterization of your comment, especially since the numbers for the definition I gave are the same as those in the original document, so it is obvious what definition is being used. Also, the document I referred to only counts drunk passengers as fatalities if they died. The fact that the passenger was drunk does not make the accident alcohol impaired.

  70. Re:We should test all drivers inside simulator als by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

    No doubt that is why it is not used.

    MADD and the news use "alcohol-involved" almost exclusively.

  71. Re:We should test all drivers inside simulator als by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Tire size changes the distance travelled per wheel rotation, which is how the spedometer works. Changing tire sizes will cause your spedometer to read inaccurately unless you are able to calibrate it to the new size.

  72. Re:Better simulators exist. They're huge. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    7 or so years ago Discover Channel (I think it was them) had some shows on The World Worst Drivers or something like that. They were UK shows slightly repackaged for the USA.

    In one piece they showed cars spinning off the curving entrance to an expressway. One reason they had a UK show was the UK has had a lot more video or surveillance footage to choose from than the US. Any, they interviewed a safety expert. He explained that that curved entrance-way had spin outs at the rate of say, once a week. So, hundreds of thousands of pounds later, they banked the curve to make it safer. And drivers spun out at the rate of, you guessed it, once a week.

    The safety expert explained that people will access the risk of a situation, and on that entrance way one person per week assessed the risk incorrectly and went too fast. Changing the road to make it safer only moved the risk assessment by drivers. He went on to say that that was a problem: we have been building safer roads and safer vehicles, but people re- adjust their behaviors, thus defeating the new, safer road or car.*

    The expert suggested, tongue-in-cheek, that maybe we should make driving more dangerous, but in a manner that the driver really knows it, motivating the driver to drive safer. He proposed a large spike stickout of the center of the steering wheel, aimed the driver' chest. That should make people drive safer!

    Although, may it should be pointed about 15 inches lower....

    *IN the US there were slow declines yearly auto accident rates, until air bags came along and produced substantial decreases. Air bags are an exception and have actually made a big impact in reducing fatalities. Maybe because that although divers know they are there, it is 'intellectual' knowledge, not sensory sourced knowledge. So they don't jump in a car with air bags and think, "Oh, air bag. I can drive a little faster."

  73. Re:We should test all drivers inside simulator als by airdweller · · Score: 1

    Yes, I guessed that much, but is it really that noticeable?

  74. Re:We should test all drivers inside simulator als by jaymemaurice · · Score: 1

    Yes, it is. Tire sizes are measured like 225/40/17... second number indicates the sidewall height as a percentage of the treadwidth (first number, in MM). Third number is the size, in inches, of the rim.

    I went from 205/80-16 to 265/70-16
    The circumference of the original tire was 2307.19mm vs 2442.27mm
    That is, 433.43 revolutions per KM to 409.45 revolutions per KM

    That means there is a 6% difference in my speedometer between the two tires (assuming the old tires were not worn, which they were)

    My point is not just about tire size, but in fact, many speedometers are not accurate anyway, especially at high speeds.

    --
    120 characters ought to be enough for anyone