Malaysia Stages Internet Blackout To Protest New Censorship Law

redletterdave writes "Malaysian netizens, opposition politicians, well-known bloggers and non-governmental organizations staged an Internet blackout Tuesday to protest and raise awareness about legislation that could threaten free expression on the Web. According to Malaysia's Centre for Independent Journalism (CIJ), the second of two amendments to the Malaysian Evidence Act of 1950, also known as Section 114A, 'enables law enforcement officials to swiftly hold someone accountable (PDF) for publishing seditious, defamatory, or libelous content online.' In addition, those accused of posting this kind of content will be 'assumed to be guilty until proven innocent,' which completely flies in the face of the typical logic of the traditional judicial process, which is 'innocent until proven guilty.' The CIJ warns that 'if allegedly defamatory content is traced back to your username, electronic device, and/or Wi-Fi network, Section 114A presumes you are guilty of publishing illicit content on the Internet.' The CIJ organized Tuesday's blackout, where participating sites blacked out their names and services with messages that read, 'This is what the Web could look like.'"

Comments

First country that

[Anonymous Coward]

became a free harbor for information, will flourish in a very near future.

Re:First country that

[fustakrakich]

And it will look like Pearl Harbor did in 1941 if anybody tries.

So, how widespread was this blackout anyway? Did Google and Facebook and Microsoft join in?

Re:First country that

[shoemilk]

I love laws like this! What happens when the Prime Minister's account posts "Yer teh G4yz!" all over the place? Why must people who make laws be so stupid and ignorant of anything technological?

Re:First country that

[jhoegl]

Nothing will happen to them if that is what you are thinking.
Nope, instead they will find who really did it by investing resources into it.
But the average citizen, well... good luck.

Re:First country that

[Anonymous Coward]

In Malaysia, allegations of homosexuality are normal coming from the Prime Minister's office (directed towards the leader of the opposition). So it would be business as usual.

Re:First country that

[kpainter]

"Yer teh fuct"

Re:First country that

[Errol backfiring]

Well, it may be a bit like the Netherlands. The Netherlands (for more than a decade) had no patent laws and did just fine. In fact, this was the time when companies like Philips and Unilever were started. Alas, international pressure bullied the laws back in. So yes, I expect it to flourish, but not for very long.

It's political. Period.

[el_flynn]

This is nothing more than political maneouvering by the ruling government.

It's been done before, and will continue to be done. Especially because a General Election is coming up. If you read that link I posted, it was reported that the Malaysian prime minister said "Whatever we do, we must put people first,". If that were truly the case, why wasn't that position taken in the first place before the law was passed?

Basically:
1. Pass draconian law
2. Wait for public outcry
3. Repeal draconian law
4. Look like a hero
5. Profit!

Re:It's political. Period.

[theRunicBard]

You don't know your memes. It goes Something Something ????? Profit! You make it sound like they know what they're doing.

Re:It's political. Period.

[Anonymous Coward]

Exactly. They know what they're doing.

Re:It's political. Period.

[tlhIngan]

It's been done before, and will continue to be done. Especially because a General Election is coming up. If you read that link I posted, it was reported that the Malaysian prime minister said "Whatever we do, we must put people first,". If that were truly the case, why wasn't that position taken in the first place before the law was passed?

Basically:
1. Pass draconian law
2. Wait for public outcry
3. Repeal draconian law
4. Look like a hero
5. Profit!

I'd say a lot of "democratic" countries are really false-democratic - if you really looked at how they operated, it's between authoritarian and dictatorship.

There are "elections" and people can "vote", however, if the vote strays too far to the "wrong" things ... happen. And yes, people are forced to vote, and it's probably fully auditable and all that.

Malaysia is probably the perfect scenario for this. I remember many years ago the Opposition was actually getting pretty strong and popular, so what happened? The leader got arrested on "sodomy" charges and "semen on mattress" evidence. So far, the case is "ongoing" (and I think I observed this over a decade ago). I think at one point the charges got "dropped" after he was too weak to continue the trial. End result - the official government wins because the voters couldn't really vote for a party whose leader was in jail, and is now too weak to reorganize and regroup the opposition party, so the official government party gets free reign.

A law like this can be easily passed - all the government has to do is show lots of evidence that the law is good, and basically hush and discredit those who oppose it. If it gets any traction, just jail the leader on questionable charges.

Re:It's political. Period.

[Taco Cowboy]

This is nothing more than political maneouvering by the ruling government.

It's been done before, and will continue to be done. Especially because a General Election is coming up. If you read that link I posted, it was reported that the Malaysian prime minister said "Whatever we do, we must put people first,". If that were truly the case, why wasn't that position taken in the first place before the law was passed?

Basically:
1. Pass draconian law
2. Wait for public outcry
3. Repeal draconian law
4. Look like a hero
5. Profit!

 
That regime that controls Malaysia for 55 years can do that, time and time again, simply because the average IQ of the Malaysians - especially that of the majority Malays - is below 75
 
If you follow the following links, you will understand how easy it is to manipulate the majority Muslim Malays -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institutional_racism#Malaysian_institutional_racism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cow_head_protests

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_attacks_against_places_of_worship_in_Malaysia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Shaariibuugiin_Altantuyaa

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mt5qR98-jE8

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/Scorpenes-Sting-Liberation-Publishes-Expose-re-Malaysias-Bribery-Murder-Scandal-05347/

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htmurph/20091224.aspx

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBIgmdMNE7Q

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Lalang
 

Re:It's political. Period.

[Anonymous Coward]

The original plan was to give the government teeth to frame and persecute the opposition and the liberal minded citizens, during the coming General Election (GE). They have cybertroopers that are paid to plant seditious remarks on anti-government/independent newspapers, blogs, websites, etc. and then wield the law to arrest them.

However, the GE was postponed for the umpteenth time thanks to the never ending scandal exposes. And this gave the people time to launch the campaign to repeal this draconian law.

Posted anonymously as I can be arrested under this law.

Re:It's political. Period.

[Anonymous Coward]

What you mentioned was Sodomy I back in the late 90's. The semen was probably planted evidence as the DNA sample of the ex-Deputy Prime Minister (DPM) was tempered by a police officer (jude Pereira). The mattress which was ceremoniously brought into court daily was eventually expunged as evidence and Anwar was eventually cleared off any sodomy charge, but was convicted for obstructing justice.

Sodomy II the sequel took place recently with the accuser, Saiful an Anwar ex-aide, going to PM Najib Razak's office days before the alleged event took place. He apparently did not defecate for a few days so that DNA can be extracted, which the government lab miraculously found them to be in pristine condition. And to add to the insult, the government hospital doctor who examined Saiful, did not find any trace of forced anal penetration. The judge who initially forced the case to be heard in court, stating that Saiful was a credible witness, eventually had a change of heart when he realised that the regime is facing a demise, and acquitted Anwar.

You might just get to see this in the cinemas, say 5 years from now.

oh this one is too easy

[Anonymous Coward]

......

0 surreptitiously post defamatory content in the names/ip addresses for all the members of malaysian parliment.
1 ???
2 profit

Re:oh this one is too easy

[Taco Cowboy]

......

0 surreptitiously post defamatory content in the names/ip addresses for all the members of malaysian parliment.
1 ???
2 profit

 
Oh, the regime that controlled Malaysia for the past 55 years already have a ready-made solution for that

They will create a race-riot, then declare martial law, then dissolve the entire elected parliament

They had done that before - in 1969

Read the following - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/13_May_incident
 

Re:oh this one is too easy

[Mashiki]

They will create a race-riot, then declare martial law, then dissolve the entire elected parliament

No need to create a race-riot. Already happening, via Muslim religious extremists and the current government is bending over backwards to appease them in order to avoid race riots. In turn, the Buddhists have been doing things like setting themselves on fire to protest the fact that they're being murdered in the streets. If anything, the muslims have been ratcheting it up, and blaming them for just about anything you can think of.

Heck, they've been banning books for awhile to stop from offending the muslims and their sensitivities especially in relation to their religion. Why not ban the internet while they're at it? Well it's not as bad as Burma yet where they're blaming the Buddhists for 'fake mass murders' but it's getting close.

Re:oh this one is too easy

[jrumney]

In turn, the Buddhists have been doing things like setting themselves on fire to protest

The guy who set himself on fire near the PM's office a few weeks ago was from some extremist Islamic cult, not Buddhist, if that's what you're referring to.

Censorship

[Taco Cowboy]

Malaysia is an Islamic country

From Saudi Arabia to Malaysia to Iran to Bangladesh, we see a pattern --- Islamic countries aren't actually famous for their tolerance of free speech

But of course, not all countries that do not allow free speech are Islamic countries. North Korea and Cuba are not Islamic, but then, they are commies

I guess the commies are in bed with the Islamists on their quest to snuff out all free speech
 

Re:Censorship

[Anonymous Coward]

The UK apparently doesn't tolerate freedom of speech/press either. Just take a look at the earlier story about that guy who is getting four years in prison simply for posting text on his web site.

Re:Censorship

[Anonymous Coward]

America either for that matter. Nevermind that the navy plans to have ubiquitous flyover capability within the next 5 years. They'll watch you even in international waters. I'm sure you'll feel safe then.

Re:Censorship

[Anonymous Coward]

"Commies bad", eh. Sounds like you are drunk on kool-aid.

Re:Censorship

[xenobyte]

Troll alert...

Unless you have been living in a cave for the past 100 years you're wilfully ignoring facts... The communist countries wasted most of their money on preventing free speech and free thought, as well as free movement of its people. The rest was wasted on a stupid arms race they couldn't win. That was one of the primary reasons they failed.

For some reason Islamic countries are even more afraid of free speech, as well as free expression. The middle east almost melted down just because a local newspaper in the small country of Denmark (far, far away from the middle east) published some drawings of Muhammad. It's a very poor and insecure religion that fears open discussion about its premises and prophets, and this is usually due to real issues with these. I mean it is raised above any discussion that Muhammad was a pedophile when he married a 6-year old and consumated the marriage when she (Aisha) was 9 years old, but try mentioning this to a Muslim and you just might not survive the reaction.

Islam is a very violent religion, and any insult, no matter how insignificant, results in demands for blood, beheadings and worse, which of course explains the need for strong censorship in order to prevent roits and revolutions. But the issue is not the insults (which the censorship should prevent) but the mentality and reactions, and those are guided by the clergy (Imams). So they need to re-educate the Imams instead of imposing more censorship. That would solve many problems in addition to those relating to perceived insults, and open up for freedom of speech.

Re:Censorship

[erroneus]

Turkey is an Islamic country too. They don't have this problem. The problem isn't Islam. It's the jackasses who use Islam as an excuse. That said, we see the same crap in the US on a lesser scale you know. "Blue laws"? Religious crap getting in my way at every turn as far as I'm concerned.

And you don't have to be in a Muslim country to have your free speech threatened either.

It's easy to want to blame a particular religion especially when they speak a non-English language, often have non-white faces, and wear strange clothes. I actually tend to want to do that myself. The reality, though, is much different. There are probably more versions of Islam practiced than there are versions of Christianity. It's all the same crap when you break it down... if an interpretation doesn't agree with you, change it... fork it if you will.

I'm with you in that religion is to blame for a lot of broken thought and a lot of inhumanity. But at its core is humans... doing inhuman things.

Re:Censorship

[Mashiki]

Turkey is an Islamic country too. They don't have this problem. The problem isn't Islam. It's the jackasses who use Islam as an excuse.

Uh. You might want to pay a bit more attention to the world, back in 2008, when the Islamist's started rising to power they amended a bunch of stuff restricting free speech, and a bunch of other things. Hey guess what, you remember Egypt? Wanna guess what's happening there, or do I need to spell it out for you as the Islamists are rising to power there. Goodbye freedoms.

You can believe what you want, but the last time I looked. If someone took a glass filled it with piss and dumped a cruifix in it(let's not forget that it's already been an art exhibit too). You'll get some disgusted looks here in the west, and you'll probably get some people protesting you. Now you try that with a Koran, I'll bet you'll get your first death threat inside of 10minutes, and have your first riot inside an hour. And of course, you'll probably need to go into hiding. That's much more serious than say, oh ... drawing a cartoon.

Re:Censorship

[erroneus]

Religion is violent. Sexuality in a religious context is invariably screwed up and is invariably about women... controlling, limiting, branding and especially blaming.

Get over it. To me, one religion is pretty much as stupid as another. But be thankful too. We have a lot to thank religion for in our human societies.

1. ...

Okay I may have to post more on that later.. I can't think of any at the moment.

Re:Censorship

[hawkinspeter]

How about Buddhism? That's not nearly as stupid as other religions and is definitely not violent.

Re:Censorship

[outsider007]

Turkey is listed as an internet censoring country by OpenNet Initiative and is 'under surveillance' from Reporters Without Borders. Citation provided. Islam may not be the only jackass ideology that promotes censorship but it certainly is a major one.

Re:Censorship

[rtb61]

All countries where the psychopaths in charge hide behind religion or enforced credo, hate free speech and persecute those that attempt it. This also extends to monarchical systems. Pointing out one religion over another is disingenuous and racist, well history has made it clear, as soon as politicians claim to the the interpreters of the 'national' religion abuse becomes rampant and in direct contradiction to the principles of the religion. Especially when then abuse takes on a core of sadistic sexual exploitation not only by those at the top but also by their core enforcers.

Christianity is only a less violent religion because it was forced to be one due to rebellion from within and breakdown of the religion into multiple sub-sects to break up the power of those exploiting the religion for their own purposes.

A prime example of current abuse of religion is by Paul Ryan who for years exposed the atheistic beliefs of Ayn Rand and objectivism which denigrates all Christian principles. Paul Ryan did this while claiming to be a devout Catholic a direct and blatant contradiction but one that does adhere to the principles of objectivism ie. it is acceptable to lie for personal advantage and whilst all religions are nonsense and for the weak and parasites, it is sound and acceptable to pretend to adhere to a religion if one gains personal advantage by doing so.

It is not the religion and never has been, it is it's pretend adherents who abuse religion for their own political, greed and lust based advantage basically the credo of Ayn Rand and Objectivism.

Re:Censorship

[Anonymous Coward]

How about Buddhism? That's not nearly as stupid as other religions and is definitely not violent.

Try telling that to the Tamil population of Sri Lanka.

Re:Censorship

[hawkinspeter]

I would if I knew any. I know they had a civil war and the Tamil population were decimated, but I didn't know that Buddhism was a cause of that. After a quick reading of the Wikipedia page, it looks like several Buddhist temples were targeted and destroyed which is naturally going to upset people, but I don't think you can blame the conflict on Buddhism (not that I know much about that conflict).

Re:Censorship

[Anonymous Coward]

If you live in a village in the Bible Belt or Bavaria you might as well vanish, too.

Re:Censorship

[MysteriousPreacher]

It is not the religion and never has been, it is it's pretend adherents who abuse religion for their own political, greed and lust based advantage basically the credo of Ayn Rand and Objectivism.

I agree with the rest of your post, but this reeks of the No True Scotsman fallacy. I don't want to pick on religion here, so I'll use the word "ideology" to group together religions, political movements and philosophies.

While ideology can indeed be vehicles for a despot's agenda, it does not follow that "true belief" can't lead to pretty terrible results! If we look at terrorists, are none of them driven by ideology? Are all Islamic terrorists not true believers, or perhaps they're abusing their religion or misinterpreting it? No, that's nonsense. Obviously some are using religion as a vehicle for another agenda, such as the various paramilitaries in Northern Ireland who seem to spend more time engaging in petty disputes and crime than in their stated mission. How about central American Marxist extremists who take to the jungle, to fight the government, and kidnap women for rape? I don't blame Marxism for that, but I do blame Islam when I see people doing what its holy books tell them to do. Are misogyny and homophobia abuse of Christianity? No, because it's a supportable interpretation of Biblical texts, and I blame Christianity when its used to defend such appalling stances.

Contradiction is part and parcel of most ideologies - Paul Ryan is not unusual. How is it that many Christians lead lives of luxury, contrary to the example set by Jesus and his disciples? It'd be reasonable to argue that amassing wealth and possessions is just as contradictory to the teachings of Jesus as objectivism is. Why do women play such an important role in the ministry of Jesus, and in the early church, yet later-on are shoved back in to the kitchen? Why are the majority of Catholic women using birth control? Why are some protestant denominations allowing homosexuals to minister, and why does any Christian church permit women to minister to men? Why does extreme socialism tend to resemble feudalism? To finish on an amusing note, how does the claimed rationalism egoism of Objectivism jibe with the "monkey see monkey do" behaviour of some of her followers, and how does its disdain for statism marry-up with Rand ruling the cult of Objectivism like a mad monarch?

Re:Censorship

[alexgieg]

Sexuality in a religious context is invariably screwed up and is invariably about women... controlling, limiting, branding and especially blaming.

I remember reading a thesis saying it more of a cultural phenomenon ultimately targeted at children by way of the women. The idea was that in societies were you can trust mostly everyone else as individuals, women were (and are) freer because you can trust your neighbor or the guy from that other family to self control and not come make your wife pregnant for you. On the other hand, on those were another person's word to you is worth shit if his clan leader as much as sneezes and men have no self control, you restrict your wife (a single person), because there's no way you can restrict everyone else. Middle Eastern societies follow the later pattern, and hence women over there have no freedom, the religion (or lack thereof) of the involved of secondary concern, so much so things were basically the same before Islam, and among followers of other religions. On the other hand, many Western ones are of the individualized trusting kind, and in those women are freer or actually free, the religion (or lack thereof too) of the involved also of secondary concern.

In short: place any religion, or none, on a given cultural context, and it'll be speedily adapted to that cultural context. The reverse also happens, with the religion changing the cultural context, but this is a much subtler process, and if a certain cultural aspect of the society is very entrenched (such as the total lack of mutual trust between non-clan individuals), it might not yield at all.

Re:Censorship

[Anonymous Coward]

See this article for example. And Sri Lankan Buddhist violence is only the most recent example. Buddhist monks have traditionally been quite powerful all over East and South East Asia, and history is full of power struggles between them, with monks recruiting armies of followers to fight for their "cause".

Re:Censorship

[hawkinspeter]

"Militant Buddhism" - now I've seen everything! I don't know how they can follow Buddhism whilst carrying out violence as I thought that non-violence is kind of their thing.

It amazes me that they can fight for the cause of non-attachment. It's like fighting for peace or screwing for virginity.

Re:Censorship

[parkinglot777]

It depends on how you define "free speech." Many people in America think that its definition is to say or express "whatever" they want. Well, it is a two-edged sword because there is always a consequence of an action whether or not it is significant. Too many people do not realize that and over do the what you call "free speech."

In Thailand, saying anything bad or insult the royal family in public could easily open the door to their jail. Is the action a free speech? Yes, but it is not acceptable because of their culture. Is it good? Somewhat. Is it bad? Also somewhat.

Therefore, you need to understand the root of the culture of where you are looking at. The culture could be very different from yours, and that should at least make you ponder before you throw out your opinion. Remember, you can't simply take back what you said because the damage might have already been done once you said it.

Re:Censorship

[misexistentialist]

That's because Westerners...are infidels. But if you insult some sort of conservative values on the one side, or "political correctness" on the other, there are extreme reactions.

Re:Censorship

[erroneus]

Interesting. This fits with what I understand of people and cultures and of their willingness to bend religion to their beliefs rather than the other way around. (If God existed, he would be really pissed off about this... but since we're in his own image, he should have seen it coming!)

Your statements have been added to my collective position on these matters.

Re:Censorship

[tqk]

Remember, you can't simply take back what you said because the damage might have already been done once you said it.

Here in The West, we've somewhat of an axiom: "'Tis better to be thought a fool, than to open one's mouth and confirm the fact."

Speech doesn't cause damage of any kind to anything. Children often say foolish things, yet we discount their foolishness understanding they just don't know. How is it that the Thai royal family, or Islam ..., can't just discount insults against them as simple ignorance to be ignored, instead of throwing the perp into jail or calling for Jihad?

They're just other forms of insecure tyrants. They believe at bottom that their ideas can't really stand on their own merits so they impose control instead.

The murderers of Danish cartoonists should be shot on sight as the vermin they are. The world doesn't need their sort.

Re:Censorship

[Eponymous Hero]

a global force for good. as in, for good. here to stay. not going anywhere anytime soon.

Re:Censorship

[Eponymous Hero]

religion is a synonym for cognitive dissonance. you cannot believe in a religion, any religion, without holding contradicting beliefs. islamic jihad is one example in muslim beliefs where they can't figure out if they're here to wipe everyone out or be compassionate. obviously it's more fun to wipe everyone out, and conveniently lets god sort them out. blame absolved, good to go.

on a side note, i don't get the 72 virgin thing either. you die, you're in an eternal afterlife, and you get 72 chicks with zero sexual experience. ok, assume my culture has instilled a fetish for virgin sex. it's eternity and there's only 72 of them. how soon until you run through them all and your virgin count is down to zero? sounds like a ripoff to me. are they even hot? just a little bit cute, even?

Re:Censorship

[Anonymous Coward]

I realize that Chinese rule in Tibet is oppressive and offensive, but Tibet under the Buddhists was not much better.

Re:Censorship

[rtb61]

Never confuse the leaders with the followers, the fallacy is yours if you consider them to be the same species. Psychopaths as the leaders, narcissist as the followers and the rest of use as the victims. There is also nothing as absurb as, ohhh my, right wing nut burger or what, 'Extreme Socialism', sure some groups have made use the name socialism but they certainly didn't adhere to it's tenets and as such weren't socialists pretty much the same as GOP and Christianity (they just use it for the votes and to generate cash, the ones at the top, not a believer amongst them) , really funny B$ though, 'Extreme Socialism' you really cracked me up with that one. You're really way out there aren't you.

Re:Censorship

[Anonymous Coward]

Islam acknowledge the right of speech and expression. But it does speak strongly against spreading of lies, slander, backbiting (and other negative form of speech). With right comes with responsibilities and with choice comes consequences. Instead of freedom of speech, Islam advocate the right of speech (and the associated responsibility)...

There are 1 Billion+ Muslims so it is not surprising to have a number of them who are insecure, close minded, etc. But you will find quite a number who are not that way too. As for the juvenile cartoons you mentioned - come on, that is just provoking a reaction. It is not even funny.

The topic of prophet Muhammad marriage is well known to us. Culture evolve over time and this was 1400+ years ago. The Arab / Jews people opposes him on a lot of things when he preaches the message of Islam but we did not hear them criticize him on his marriage back then. Think about that. What is viewed as the norms often changed based on time and situation. There is more but to cut short...

The legislation is not primarily about free speech, it is about the government presuming you to be guilty first - which is clearly not correct. And the people who opposes it in Malaysia are made of Muslims too..

And I think you need to learn more about the topic (e.g. Islam) before making statement of sweeping generalization. There are violent Muslims - as in any other group and we are ashamed of it. And Islam acknowledges the reality of war - as other harsh realities of life (e.g. poverty, crime, divorce). But to say that Islam is a very violent religion (or teaches violence) is grossly inaccurate. Assalamua'laikum (Peace be upon you).

Re:Censorship

[Krojack]

Religion is violent.

Not 100% true. Religions are what it's follows make it. Islam and Christianity use to be violent many many moons ago but so were non-religious people. Humans have evolved beyond that. Today Islam and Christianity are generally peaceful however each group has it's fare share of crazies that still want to live in the 9th century and will do whatever it takes to get that even if it means killing anyone that doesn't agree.

Also I am not a religious person yet I do believe in the a few of the christian ten commandments. They aren't all bad motto's to live by.

Re:Censorship

[MysteriousPreacher]

Which fallacy is mine? You've a pretty clear no true Scotsman there, and a strawman in the way you characterize all leaders as being just in it for the power and money. Do you accept some of these "leaders" actually hold the beliefs they purport to hold? Sure beliefs tend to dovetail nicely with personal wishes, needs and psychoses, and the same is true of "followers". The world is far for nuanced than you think it to be. Maybe L Ron Hubbard and Joseph Smith, who almost certainly began as conscious frauds, themselves became "followers" of their own crazy schemes. Power and constant reinforcement from followers does odd things to a mind.

Another issue is that you've set yourself up as the arbiter of definitions for ideologies that are quite varied. Both Fred Phelps and my girlfriend are Christians. Her liberal Christianity is more in the tradition practiced by the majority in the west, while the craziness of Phelps is grounded in Calvinism. Is Phelps a wanker? Yes. Is he a Christian? Yes, and his positions are very well supported by scripture.

Re:Censorship

[shutdown -p now]

Turkey is an Islamic country too. They don't have this problem.

Turkey is not an Islamic country. They are a majority Muslim secular country. And it kinda took a lot of effort to make it that way - and it still requires a military coup d'etat every now and then to keep Islamist parties in check.

So, yes, it's possible to have moderate forms of Islam that do not restrict human rights. However, they are fairly maintenance-heavy. Islam has not yet evolved into the kind of toothless religion that Christianity had over the last couple centuries. They're only having their Reformation now (Salafi), and remember that initially this mainly manifested in more witch burnings, not fewer.

Re:Censorship

[erroneus]

Yeah I guess you might be right. When there are more middle class muslims they will have a lot more to lose if they get all radical and so will have to reconsider any extremist positions. And that's the real key to peace isn't it? Let people have at least enough stuff so that they will behave better for fear of losing it?

Re:Censorship

[shutdown -p now]

Yes, but you don't get a solid middle class simply by throwing money at people. It's a cultural change as much as it is an economic one, and it takes pretty harsh measures to implement it quickly. In Turkey, it took 15 years of dictatorship that pretty much forced secularization and westernization on the unwilling populace.

Re:Censorship

[Taco Cowboy]

I remember reading a thesis saying it more of a cultural phenomenon ultimately targeted at children by way of the women. The idea was that in societies were you can trust mostly everyone else as individuals, women were (and are) freer because you can trust your neighbor or the guy from that other family to self control and not come make your wife pregnant for you. On the other hand, on those were another person's word to you is worth shit if his clan leader as much as sneezes and men have no self control, you restrict your wife (a single person), because there's no way you can restrict everyone else.

 
I am a man. I am definitely not a card carrying member of the "Political Correct" movement, but even so, I have to say that the thesis you referred to, is full of shit
 
It does not matter what 'cultural phenomenon' one is in, the fact that male chauvinism thrives in some societies is because the male species there are chauvinists.

Human are human, no matter if that human originates from the Middle East or from Europe or from China or Africa.

Male chauvinism is everywhere - but is expressed in different degree - and in places like Europe, the male species there are not less male like - but rather, they use their BIG head rather than their little one to think

And in places like Pakistan or Middle East or in Malaysia - where the Muslim culture predominates - the religion of Islam has encouraged the male species to think with their little head - so much so that it is written in their so-called "holy book" that every single man is permitted to marry four (4) wives at any given time - which is to say, that little head can get to visit 4 different holes instead of one

And that's the gist of it

To say otherwise is to become an apologist of Islam
 

Re:Censorship

[Anonymous Coward]

I figure Islam as a Religion is about 1400 years old. Look at Christianity in the 1400's just about as violent and oppressive if not more so. Look at the death tole from the crusades, internally Mary the 1st of England had close to 400 people burned at the stake for being protestant, the Spanish inquisition netted a few thousands deaths. I think we should all be grateful that Europe of the 1400 and 1500's didn't have weapons of mass destruction.
While I think it's interesting that both Christianity and Islam managed to hit a violent phase after roughly the same length of time, I think the real cause is power hungry people exploiting what ever they can, to hold power.

Re:Censorship

[Anonymous Coward]

Violent teacher produce violent student. The religion itself is not violent.

Re:Censorship

[Taco Cowboy]

Islam and Christianity use to be violent many many moons ago but so were non-religious people. Humans have evolved beyond that. Today Islam and Christianity are generally peaceful

 
Islam is "generally peaceful"?
 
  Bull farking shit !!
 
A religion that encourages its followers to kill people of other religion cannot be said to be peaceful. Not at all, not in my book !!
 

Re:Censorship

[alexgieg]

...so much so that it is written in their so-called "holy book" that every single man is permitted to marry four (4) wives at any given time - which is to say, that little head can get to visit 4 different holes instead of one

It says so, but it also says you have to give a house and full pension to each one so that each can live as if she were your single wife, they all not being allowed to live together (harems were one of the common pre-Islamic practices Muhammad tried to abolish -- in which, as is the case in others, he was only partially successful: as the thesis proposes, culture wins). In practice then only very rich Muslims have more than one wife. The huge majority is monogamous, if for no other reason than that they simply don't have money for more than one wife.

By the way, I don't see a problem with apologizing for Islam. I do that from time to time, as I do for Christianity, Judaism and others, even though I myself am a pagan polytheist. It's fun! ;)

sounds good

[Right1488]

I'd rather they stay off the internet anyway

Re:Not unlike Linux fans

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh, poor you. I'm sure your experience is directly equatable to government oppression that affects millions and that carries penalties of incarceration and execution.

A review of Malaysia by an outsider

[Taco Cowboy]

If you still have doubt on the savagery of the regime that has controlled Malaysia for the past 55 years, read the following:

http://web.archive.org/web/20040712015617/http://www.waseda-coe-cas.jp/jcas/images/shinozaki_jocas.pdf

What you need:

[OhANameWhatName]

1. A worm which targets government computers 2. Lots of defamatory postings

Re:Not so different than the unwritten policy at /

[Anonymous Coward]

yeah I can relate the malaysians because when I tried to post an argument about bitcoin I had to wait 4 mins.

Simple ... swamp the system

[fygment]

Those able to do so, should hack in to every system they can in Malaysia and insert illicit content. When it becomes apparent how easy it is to make anyone guilty of posting any content, and when the justice system finds itself overwhelmed, maybe someone will rethink the legislation.

That said, this could be a convenience law ie. never used except when law enforcement is looking for a way to 'get' someone.

Cool

[Impy the Impiuos Imp]

> Malaysia Stages Internet Blackout To Protest New Censorship Law

Hey, Malaysia, we support you!

Oh, wait. Nevermind.

innocence lost

[Eponymous Hero]

even the way we word it is harmful. innocent until proven guilty. until? implying that you will be found guilty at a later time? the wording should be innocent unless proven guilty. not until.

Re:innocence lost

[Anonymous Coward]

even the way we word it is harmful. innocent until proven guilty. until? implying that you will be found guilty at a later time? the wording should be innocent unless proven guilty. not until.

Take your fight up with William Garrow. BTW, try using capital letters once in a while.

How is this a free speech issue?

[Yakasha]

I look at comments like Harry Reid's, claiming Romney hasn't paid taxes in 10 years and I think... well... prove it!

If somebody makes a scientific claim, do you assume they're correct until somebody else proves otherwise?

So why would you require Obama to prove that some internet troll's claim of "Obama sucks goats" is untrue?

It seems to me that laws like this simply put the burden of proof on the person making the original claim (the allegedly libelous comment), as opposed to requiring the victim to prove to the entire world that the claim is false. And come on... you can't honestly believe that dispelling the lies is possible with all the birthers, swift boaters, and moon landing conspiracy theorists out there, do you? Even "normal" people continue to believe the lies long after they've been debunked.

If you want to make a potentially libelous comment, what is so horrible about demanding you back it up? No more political fishing by claiming Romney is a cheat, or Obama is not a US citizen, unless you can cough up Romney's returns or Obama's Nigerian birth certificate.

P.S. I understand this law also targets the owners of websites, making it effectively impossible to host a discussion board without lawyers as moderators. I consider that a separate issue than simply requiring people to back their claims with proof. I also understand the problems inherent in being able to satisfactorily prove "the secret police kidnapped my brother" to avoid a libel/sedition conviction in some countries. Again, I consider that a separate issue.

Re:Not so different than the unwritten policy at /

[Anonymous Coward]

Would be quite simple for editorial to be transparent about 99.9% of their policy rather than just the 95% which doesn't effect their abuse. The reason they aren't is the same reason why all schmucks hide stuff. It gives them (as opposed to everyone) more freedom & control. A forum is owned by everyone who creates it, & the controls should reflect this.

Hardly matters so much on /., except that an opportunity to reduce the essences of societies ills, & provide an alternative example is lost.

Re:Not so different than the unwritten policy at /

[Anonymous Coward]

the malaysian goons didn't get their training at the top of the corruption heap. you're entirely missing the significance of principles, intelligence, integrity, honesty etc. at all levels of society. you are also demonstrating your ignorance of such dynamical systems as chaos which should be a required course for anyone geek who believes they have something useful to contribute to a discussion.