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Open Hardware and Software Laptop
New submitter mihai.todor85 writes "It looks like Andrew 'bunnie' Huang has been quite busy lately, developing a nice open hardware laptop. He was even kind enough to provide all the schematics without NDA. For anybody interested in owning such a device, he says that he 'might be convinced to try a Kickstarter campaign in several months, once the design is stable and tested' if enough people are interested."
maybe
Binary blobs required for 3D acceleration and many Wifi drivers. Nothing to see here.
Dear aunt, let's set so double the killer delete select all
It's a proprietary design. If you want open hardware you can have a look for example here:
http://opensparc.net/
bunnie says: December 16, 2012 at 3:20 am
Clarification: Wifi does not require a closed-source blob, if you use an Atheros 9k mPCI-x version. An example card is linked under the mPCIx feature bullet.
The USB card is provided as an option just in case you want to put something else in the mini PCI slot, or you wanted a second wifi interface for some reason. Also, the USB card is much cheaper than the mPCIx card, so it’s a cost-down option for those who don’t care as much about a small blob in the system. Basically, if you care about having no blob for wifi, you can pay for an option that is open source.
GPU, on the other hand, is probably out of reach. nvdia and ATI have set a pretty strong precedent for closed source drivers to use those elements, and the IP vendors for integrated GPUs (like Vivante) are following suit. However, GPU is non-essential IMO for a large application space.
An interesting project, I wish them luck. Even if it is never widely popular in the marketplace, who knows what spinoff projects this might launch?
"The bunnie" says otherwise (from The Fine Article's comment section):
bunnie says:
December 16, 2012 at 3:20 am
Clarification: Wifi does not require a closed-source blob, if you use an Atheros 9k mPCI-x version
The USB card is provided as an option just in case you want to put something else in the mini PCI slot, or you wanted a second wifi interface for some reason. Also, the USB card is much cheaper than the mPCIx card, so it’s a cost-down option for those who don’t care as much about a small blob in the system. Basically, if you care about having no blob for wifi, you can pay for an option that is open source.
GPU, on the other hand, is probably out of reach. nvdia and ATI have set a pretty strong precedent for closed source drivers to use those elements, and the IP vendors for integrated GPUs (like Vivante) are following suit. However, GPU is non-essential IMO for a large application space.
An interesting project, I wish them luck. Even if it is never widely popular in the marketplace, who knows what spinoff projects this might launch?
Yeah, for Wifi IF you use one specific mPCI-x version, but he also ammends GPUs are "out of reach", as in "binary blobs required". So, from a purist point of view, no different than the myriad of ARM netbooks/tablets/convertibles/whatnot.
Dear aunt, let's set so double the killer delete select all
horseshit.... how many netbooks/tablets/convertibles/whatnot have a RPi header + many servo/motor PWM capable controllers?
I can count them on no fingers.
I'm not saying this is not a cool device. As cool as the Raspberry Pi for instance, but you can't say it's really "open hardware" if if needs binary blobs. Open is open, and this is not.
Dear aunt, let's set so double the killer delete select all
horseshit.... how many netbooks/tablets/convertibles/whatnot have a RPi header + many servo/motor PWM capable controllers?
I can count them on no fingers.
So you're going to do what with this, put your entire laptop onto an RC Plane? No, for that you'd use a Pi, Arduino, or any more appropriate form factors. Same on a RPi shield - are you going to cut a hole in your keyboard for the shield to stick out?
If the hardware would be good enough, mainly the screen with good resolution (FullHD and more) it could be interesting for me. There simply are almost no options for people who want good notebook with high resolution without Windows preinstalled.
You don't need a binary blob to boot to a console...
need more usb ports 2 is way to few
It's probably not for people with ARM CPUs in their open laptops.
From everyone here on Slashdot: http://cdn.spyparty.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Shut_up_and_take_my_money.jpg
None of that glossy shit.
But why not USB 3.0?
[Fuck Beta]
o0t!
RMS is not a destination; he is a journey.
Actually, RMS is the STARTING POINT of (hopefully) a very llooooooooooonngg journey.
For every inferno, there must first be a spark that started it all.
RMS is _that_ spark.
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
What exact benefit does this supposedly 'open' laptop have over just buying something like a Thinkpad that uses Intel components that are well-supported by open source drivers on open source operating systems (Linux, *BSD, etc.)? If it's to promote the use of standardized components that can be re-used in different laptop designs, it may serve to reduce costs or to increase the useful life of some of those parts. On the other hand, the standardization would also limit designs and prevent some cutting edge innovations from being utilized. All-in-all, as great as it's been to have interchangeable components on desktop builds, there's a reason why there's been limited standardization on laptops and servers, where innovation has more benefit. And considering how inexpensive laptops have already become simply due to competition, I see there being little to gain but much to lose from this approach.
http://astutehosting.com/
Yet another open hardware project?
Might he combine resources with Luke Leighton, who as recently as last week was interviewed about a FSF endorsable arch, in addition to his eoma-68 project?
Diversity is good but with economies of scale there's a KDE tablet, Golden Delicious openmoko successor, replicant.us and geeksphone all promising varying degrees of openness but failing to develop much of a market up against the big boys...
It's not ideal but a big step in the right direction for me. I'm very much interested in getting one of these but need to take the time to carefully compare it with the Open Pandora. It's a shame about the graphics, I'll be looking at taking the graphics as far as possible with open source drivers.
RMS won't be happy until the entire planet lives in hippie communes. You can't satisfy a person like that.
Of course you can satisfy RMS.
As long as you don't have cats, or dogs that bark, but net access with ssh-connection, and maybe a parrot to talk to, he might even find your house an acceptable place to stay
extremely high chance its not RMS, but some guy whose day job is at a huge corporation, "selling out" to the man. the whole thing is hypocrisy stuffed inside the asshole of elitism. most 'free software' is built by work-a-day nobodies who prefer anonymity and the act of building itself to any kind of idealistic horse shit.
You're living in an imaginary reality where there is no possibility of a handful of vendors dominating the market. It''s always better to have open source alternatives to insure that startups have something to work with, and it doesn't in any way impede the "cutting edge".
It's the opposite. Engineering enthusiasts and hobbyists come up with a myriad of ways to use a new platform large corporations invariably don't think of. We could see much greater innovation in laptops through this - the kind of concept laptops that are just mockups in some unused lab in some company would become a reality.
like you're angry that there isn't enough progress in open hardware for smart phones. There's really not much need for that. Smartphones already have the sensors you need and want and the app ecosystems to power them. Would be nice for security and privacy though.
This motherboard has a built-in FPGA, multiple channels of analog/digital I/O, PWM output, Rasp-Pi compatible header (to allow use of R-Pi accessory boards), builtin speaker amp (for small speakers, but still), 3 UARTs, and a USB-OTG port.
This is a hardware hacker's *dream* system.
You don't need a binary blob to boot to a console...
So fucking what? None of the typical PCs usually require binary blobs to boot to a simple console either.
>> Having a verifiable design with 100% of the source of any code running on any chip inside is actually an interesting goal
We still cannot be sure that this is the code that really runs on the target.
Who will invent signed/verifiable compilation / code distribution???
aaaaaaa
And if it goes onto Kickstarter I probably will. Why? I had ARM desktops back in the 1990s, they're really nice chips for a range of reasons. If you program close to the metal they're really nice chips with a very clean instruction set; they're very low power and run cool, so battery life is good and noise level should be low. An ARM laptop - particularly if it could dual boot RISC OS and Linux - would be a very nice machine. Also, I believe in the value of open source hardware; it keeps us - the users - in control, which becomes more important as the walled gardens grow.
Yes, it isn't pure open source. But purists are missing the point. You can't actually buy an OpenSPARC chip, and as I don't own my own chip fab I can't make one. You can't (currently) get a GPU with an NDA-free data-sheet, and while the ultra-purists will say, well, you can do without a GPU, actually having a GPU is pretty nice. Also, if we demonstrate that there is a market for a more open GPU, someone may come along and offer one.
IN summary: yes, this specification represents a machine that is a compromise. All engineering is about compromise. But in my view this looks like a good compromise. I'd buy it.
Oh, and, the idea of a little analog power meter appeals to me.
I'm old enough to remember when discussions on Slashdot were well informed.
Atheros ath9k and ath5k mini-PCIe cards are not exactly exotic hardware...
Perhaps if it had some horsepower to it (versus just being another ARM knockoff), there might be some value to it. Until then, the Thinkpad is about the closest thing you can get.
But then you'll probably respond with the thought-terminating cliche of "not the target market". Be more original than that (or more original than modbombing).
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
But it came to my mind while looking the picture of the board that instead of being cheapskate and using ordinary electrolyte capasitors (5 x 220uF 10v) it would be worth replacing those with Tantalum capacitors, which are ofcourse a bit more expensive but far more durable in long term. It could be that the price of the board would be few dollars more but certainly worth doing it.
Another thing I was thinking that if possible it would be worth changing the 100Mbps ethernet to 1Gig too, the price of the gigabit ports are so close to 100Mbps ports that there is not much excuse to use latter any more. 1Gig ports bring in addition to larger bandwith more capabilities such as lower latency, defaults to larger tcp window size, capability to use jumbo frames which is useful when you need to use 802.1q tagging and MPLS. The latter may seem why would you need to use those with laptop? Perhaps you didn't think someone would like to have a laptop where you can test things locally wherever he is traveling instead suspending the idea to be used much later while able to sit in lab and use clumsy desktop PC just for that. Advanced networking capabilities benefit greatly of gigabit interface vs. 100Mbps interface. And if you put already 1 gigabit interface you could as well put two with almost same price. Only in the situation where you mass-produce huge amounts devices and every cent counts and if you want to price-differentiate different products on the market it might make sense. But both reasons are business justified reasons and does not make sense from techie perspective.
So much freaking negativity on here about this. I for one think this is a really cool project... and oddly enough actually fits the tagline of "News for Nerds, Stuff that Matters".
I have read several pages of comments and so far there have been only a very small handful of positive comments, while I think this is one of the coolest and most exciting things I've seen in a while. If this goes to a Kickstarter campaign then I for one am all over it. The very idea of building a laptop with everything I want and nothing I don't (including R-Pi headers and some really freaking cool ports on the board for getting down-and-dirty with the hardware) just excites me. I want one, and I will not be dissuaded from that opinion. Come on; an integrated FPGA that you can turn to any task you like? How many laptops have that? The PWM headers mean that you can take one of these motherboards and make it the brain of your own robot... an incredibly powerful one compared to most of the hobbyist kit that's out there.
I would ask what happened to the Slashdot that I used to love, but I think I already have a pretty good idea.
Lemote seems to have a similar project. http://www.lemote.com/en/ . I got to know them because Richad Stallman uses it http://www.stallman.org/stallman-computing.html , then I got curious and went to search for it. You can buy one here: http://www.tekmote.nl/ .
Be good and share,
RMS defined Free Software and started the GNU project. Open Source was defined as a business-friendly alternative many years later, in particular by ESR.
If this happens, then this really is a very exciting news. I think this is a really cool project. Expect to achieve
This is just sweet. Way to go Andrew!
According to RMS, Android is NOT free software, and this is because of nasty policies of google to misuse free software.
Read your quote. The problem is not Android it self, the problems are BLOBs (binary large ojects) - big pieces of non-free software that is installed on some machine and is required to run them.
Android it self is open-source. You can get 3rd party modified builds (like CyanogenMod), a sure sign that the freedom to tinker (FSF's and RMS's goals in life) are respected. BUT...
Several ARM chipsets (including the one used in the TFA's motherboard) need a proprietary binary driver for the graphic core. (Some other components, like webcam, and radio interfaces, might need such modules too. Like the camera of HP's phones and tablets. At least for this laptop, TFA's author plan to USB webcams so it would be easy to select some standard UVC cams).
So the stuff installed on an Android phone might not be entirely opensource. You can get a 3rd party firmware, but you're not entirely free to tinker it: you might need non-free bits (mostly the openGL ES modules and drivers) to make it work.
FOR NOW.
People reading sources like Phoronix might have noticed that some mobile GPUs are either getting reverse engineered drivers (similar to Nouveau for Nvidia on the desktop) or even getting collaboration from the original manufacturer (like the opensource drivers for AMD on the desktop).
Lima for Mali, Freedno for Adreno, even Nvidia having released specs and code for the 2D part of Tegra, etc.
So, someday it should be possible to install a fully opensourced variant of Android on your phone/tablet/netbook. Although maybe not with all feature fully functional (it's going to take some time until the opensource drivers are on par with the current closed source BLOBs. And some other parts, like webcams, might still not be opensourced).
I addition to RMS's rant, I should add another problem: DRM/Tivoization. Some devices don't let you install your arbitrary firmware, and require you to jump through hoops in order to be able to run non-signed code. (like the whole story with "Gold-Cards" and replacing the booting firmware on some HTC phones).
Also, Google deliberately delays in publishing source code, and with all of these, it is shameful for Google to call Android "free software".
As the author/copyright holder of the code of Android, they can do pretty much anything they like with their own code. (as any author holding copyright on any other piece of software can, too. Even Linus could make shit with the few parts of the Linux kernel he holds copyright on. Except that, as the copyright of Linux parts is distributed among lots of authors, the possibilities are much more limited).
In addition to that, the code is licensed under a BSD-like license. 3rd parties using it aren't require to release it either (the phone manufacturer aren't required to publish their modifictaions. Don't hope of HTC releasing their HTC Sense).
Now, the most critical part is the Linux kernel, and due to its GPL licensing, 3rd parties like Google and manufacturer ARE REQUIRED to publish their modifications, and they do.
So anything required to boot an android device (minus binary drivers and DRM as mentioned before) is available, even if you might be limited to use another users space (using stock opensource android, instead of HTC's sense).
As of google delaying releases (well beside the fact that as mentionned before, they have the right to do it being the authors and copyright holder) well:
- They have explained their reasons: Android 3.x was a quickly hacked/cobled together version to have it run on tablets. The code was a hackish mess, they didn't want to publish the code until having cleaned and stabilised it for Android 4.x.
- They have always kept their promise to release code (even if they weren't required to): Android 4x *IS* out.
And most importantly:
free software is above all about the
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