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Did B&N Pass On the 6.8" E-ink Screen That Kobo Snapped Up?

Posted by timothy on from the branching-paths-of-could-have-been dept.

Nate the greatest writes "Rumor has it that the new high resolution E-ink screen on the Kobo Aura HD was originally intended for another ereader maker. Inside sources have told me that B&N had first claim on the initial production run of 300,000 6.8' screens, only B&N decided to pass. If this rumor is true then this was the screen that B&N would have used on their new ereader this year. Can you imagine what a Nook Glow HD would have been like? I think it would be the next best thing to a 7" Android tablet with an E-ink screen. It's a shame we might never see it." While flying cars are still on my wishlist, daylight readable screens for more portable devices are even higher up the list.

132 comments

  1. Points at Kobo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hideki!

  2. Am I missing something by dasunt · · Score: 2

    My Kindle e-ink screen is perfectly readable in daylight. Is the Nook's e-ink screen different somehow?

    1. Re:Am I missing something by ArcadeMan · · Score: 3, Funny

      It can be read in total darkness, if you use a flashlight.

      --
      Get free satoshi (Bitcoin) and Dogecoins
    2. Re:Am I missing something by Osgeld · · Score: 2

      no, Tim is just retarded

    3. Re:Am I missing something by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That doesn't make sense.

    4. Re:Am I missing something by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Key word: "more".

    5. Re:Am I missing something by zugmeister · · Score: 1

      While my paperwhite has many shortcomings, being readable in the dark is not one of them.

    6. Re:Am I missing something by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Haha! You say it OT.

    7. Re:Am I missing something by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The thing that blew my mind about my paperwhite is that the light settings say the light is for bright rooms and that you turn down the backlight to use it in the dark.

    8. Re:Am I missing something by Intrepid+imaginaut · · Score: 1

      It's perfectly readable in daylight but the contrast is still lower than paper, so in dimmer locations reading can be difficult. They should stop worrying about pixel count and crank up the contrast. I still love it and it's much easier than extended reading from an LCD though.

    9. Re:Am I missing something by Clsid · · Score: 1

      The article would apply to the Kindle in the same way it applies to the Nook. What they are saying is that an HD e-ink screen would be truly awesome.

    10. Re:Am I missing something by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Look at an ereader with a front-lit screen like the Kindle Paperwhite, or Kobo Glo, or Nook Glowlight. The light makes a hell of a difference to the perceived contrast, preferably look at the Glo as that has an on/off button for the light (along the top edge), so you can really see the difference the light makes, the Paperwhite doesn't actually let you turn off the light completely (don't know about the Glowlight).

    11. Re:Am I missing something by gl4ss · · Score: 1

      The thing that blew my mind about my paperwhite is that the light settings say the light is for bright rooms and that you turn down the backlight to use it in the dark.

      that's pretty much true for any backlighted screen. in case of paperwhite, it's a shortcoming compared to normal eink.

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    12. Re:Am I missing something by wonkey_monkey · · Score: 1

      I get the feeling that the backlight is mainly intended to compensate for the dull off-white colour of the screen. Thus, turn it up outside, turn it down inside. Most annoyingly though, you can't turn it off. You can only see the real colour of the screen as you lock it.

      --
      systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
    13. Re:Am I missing something by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, as a happy owner of a paperwhite,I tend to do the following: use minimum light always end increase it under 25% when light is not enough.
        If I needed more, it would mean that light is not enough for reading (far from reading a book)

      Outdors, minimum light is just perfect.

      And yes, the hint they give you is confusing at least.

      I was concerned about the minimum as should mean a penalty on battery life; however battery lasts for about 2 books of 500 pages, so I don't really care anymore.

    14. Re:Am I missing something by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      your joking, but I have done this many times.

  3. 6.8' by trentfoley · · Score: 3, Funny

    Obvious typ-o, but I feel compelled to make stupid jokes.

    "300,000 6.8' screens"

    My 60" TV isn't even 6'.

    On a 6.8' eReader, you'd only have to turn the page once every hour or so depending on how fast you read.

    Doesn't that come to over 386 miles of screen?

    1. Re:6.8' by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      On a 6.8' eReader, you'd only have to turn the page once every hour or so depending on how fast you read.

      But think of how much you're going to have to crane your neck.

    2. Re:6.8' by ottawanker · · Score: 1

      336.75 miles if they are end to end. If you placed them in a diagonal you could get over 386.36 miles.

      They would occupy 0.21 square miles.

    3. Re:6.8' by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Doesn't that come to over 386 miles of screen?

      No, 6.8 feet would be diagonal length (hypotenuse), not width or height. So, each screen has an area of 23.12 square feet (n=(c^2)/2, area equals hypotenuse squared divided by two). All the screens together make 1313.6363 square miles. If all the screens were laid out as a rectangular matrix, that would have a diagonal length of 3724.51 feet.

      It's impossible to say how wide or tall all those make believe e-ink displays might be, without first knowing either the width or the height. (which would require reading the full article)

      P.S. I figured it out the hard way. I used algebra to modify and combine the basic formulas n=bh (area=base*height) with a^2+b^2=c^2 (pythagorean theorem), by making the assumption a could equal b (pretend solving for a square) and whatever the final formula was would also work for a rectangle's area since neither an exact width or height are needed (going from hyp. to area). I think I reinvented the wheel correctly. Hurray for algebra, not reading the full article, and taking jokes literally. Trifecta.

    4. Re:6.8' by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      square mile conversion fail

    5. Re:6.8' by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      .. but no posting of the right answer?

      We are assuming that the screen is 6.8 feet in size. Assuming 16:9 ratio, and 6.8' diagonal, that gives us sides of 5.93 feet by 3.33 feet. This means that each screen occupies 19.7469 square feet. There are 300,000 screens, so together they take up 5,924,070 square feet. There are 5280 feet in a mile, so there are 5280^2 or 27,878,400 square feet in a square mile. 5,924,070 / 27,878,400 = 0.21 square miles.

  4. Re:http://www.linuxadvocates.com/p/support.html by VortexCortex · · Score: 0

    So... Linux Advocates, is addressing a letter to... Themselves? Does Mrs Schmitz know about this?

    While true that "money doesn't grow on trees", personally I think your solution is part of the problem. The answer is not to donate more money -- That doesn't solve the money problem, it just moves the money around. The answer is to breed currency bearing trees.

  5. 6.8' screen? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    I fear you have made the Stonehenge mistake, only in reverse.

    1. Re:6.8' screen? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Yeah, no wonder B&N refused to pay for them.

    2. Re:6.8' screen? by grimJester · · Score: 1

      Would you want a screen that's in danger of being crushed by a dwarf?

  6. Is Kobo paying Dice for these stories? by russotto · · Score: 0

    Is the Pope Catholic?

    1. Re:Is Kobo paying Dice for these stories? by FatLittleMonkey · · Score: 1

      If they did, they fucked up by not including a link to their own site at the mention of the product name: "the new high resolution E-ink screen on the Kobo Aura HD". (Even TFA links only to its own in-house review of the Aura, not to Kobo's site.)

      --
      Science is all about firing a drunk pig out of a cannon just to see what happens.
    2. Re:Is Kobo paying Dice for these stories? by dehole · · Score: 1

      If it smells like a fish, and tastes like a fish... Why else would a eink reader, that no one has heard about, get so many stories?

      It sounds like a good marketing strategy IMO. The only problem is that it would almost be impossible for anyone to unseat Amazon's Kindle from the #1 spot because Amazon has apps for not only Kindle, but the iOS and Android platforms.

      I myself would never buy an Amazon eBook because you don't really own it, as they showed when they deleted everyone's 1984 copy. Good luck deleting my physical copy asshat's!

  7. Re:Kobo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You and pretty much everybody else. It's a key indication that these stories are bought and paid for.

  8. Re:Kobo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Or that you're an American.

  9. Re:Kobo by petteyg359 · · Score: 2

    If you had ever bothered to look for alternatives to I'm-A-Zombie and Mr. Burns, you'd have heard about them quite a long time ago.

  10. Mr Dieter Sir by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Dear sir,

    I would like to support , for many years my fam is in danger because gringos force us to install but never work because graphics card not supported or wireless is not working .. Please Mr Dieter if we support is monies go to MiguelSoft?

    We all know MiguelSoft is best soft .. but with this soft they threaten my fam!

    Love and Regard ,
    Lupe Fuentes,.

    1. Re:Mr Dieter Sir by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ok, asshole.

  11. 6 foot screens! by SeaFox · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Well I can certainly understand by Barnes & Noble would have trouble seeing the marketability of a an e-reader one has to use a pickup truck to transport.

    And since I doubt it was a color e-ink display, even as a small billboard it wouldn't be popular.

    1. Re:6 foot screens! by Clsid · · Score: 3, Interesting

      As a happy B&N Nook owner I can tell you I would gladly replace my trusty e-reader if they come out with an HD version. To be honest, the lack of font sharpness is the only fault I can find with the device when I compare it to books.

      And I have lived in a couple of different countries in the past 4 years, so having my library around with me all the time is a godsend.

  12. Death of e-ink... by bayankaran · · Score: 1

    I am an early convert to E Readers starting from the clunky Sony PRS series. I have questions about the long term viability of e-ink technology.

    The issue is not any weakness in e-ink technology - right now the superior technology to recreate pure reading experience. But sooner or later backlit LCD/LED/OLED screens will have some type of control / settings which will approximate an e-ink experience. When that happens there will not be any pressing reason to buy a pure book reader, but go for a tablet which is also a book reader.

    This is similar to the shrinking marketplace for point and shoot digital cameras (smartphone cameras are adequate) , desktops/laptops (sales are cannibalized by tablets) and so on.

    --
    Tat Tvam Asi
    1. Re:Death of e-ink... by EmperorArthur · · Score: 1

      The problem is all of those technologies you listed rely on their own light source. You need something fundamentally different to read in bright ambient light. Something like E-Ink.

      At 100% efficiency you'd need 445W/m^2 to be the same brightness as the sun (Sunlight/url). Or, you could just change the screen once, and not have to worry about it becoming washed out.

      My prediction is that E-Ink will become higher resolution, cheaper, and faster. I think that most general purpose tablets will come with E-Ink screens in the near future. Mind you, first we will need color screens with a decent refresh rate. Hell, they're already perfect for military applications. Those guy's typically have static data like maps and need to be able to read them during high noon in the desert.

      --
      So lets pretend that we've just completed writing this code, as opposed to having just completed sabotaging it -Altera
    2. Re:Death of e-ink... by zugmeister · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I think there's more difference in these devices than you're taking into account here.
      While my iPad3 has a much prettier display than my Paperwhite, the backlight at the lowest setting is still blazing bright on the iPad.
      The iPad is waaay too big to be comfortable reading in bed and it's too heavy to hold up for an extended period of time.
      I get tired of turning Do Not Disturb mode on and off but if I don't toggle it I get notified every damm time CNN thinks something noteworthy comes up or I get an email.
      Even with all this I wouldn't have gotten a dedicated reader except for the power issue. If that iPad isn't plugged in when I go to bed I'll be in dire straits the next day. Even if tablet power improves tremendously, it'll have a tough time matching my Paperwhite's battery life of 2-3 weeks heavy reading with the backlight on.

      If you're just looking at readers in the store a backlit screen looks superior in all ways. In practice where you really just care about reading the text of a book, well, YMMV.

    3. Re:Death of e-ink... by Khyber · · Score: 1

      "At 100% efficiency you'd need 445W/m^2 to be the same brightness as the sun (Sunlight/url)."

      In what, early spring/late fall? Last we checked, solar insolation ran about 1,000W/m^2 assuming photon flux densities of 2,000 umol/m^2/s-1 yearly average.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    4. Re:Death of e-ink... by Hognoxious · · Score: 2

      the backlight at the lowest setting is still blazing bright on the iPad.

      That's just bad design. At the lowest setting it should be off.

      I have a similar annoyance with some headphones that have an inline volume control; it doesn't go low enough to mute the sound, so I have to take the player out of my pocket or take the earplugs out if I need to listen to traffic, announcement, people etc.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    5. Re:Death of e-ink... by dbIII · · Score: 1

      Sorry, but I can't see a backlit approach every matching it for readability especially in sunlight due to the very nature of backlighting. The amount of brightness required would be hard on the eyes.

    6. Re:Death of e-ink... by Clsid · · Score: 2

      I don't know about that. I like the fact that you recharge an e-ink device every month or so and forget about it. With all the electronic devices nowadays, it is something I don't see any LCD replacing anytime soon. Plus call me picky, but I'm one of those people that can't use a backlit display for reading in extended periods of time.

    7. Re:Death of e-ink... by Idarubicin · · Score: 1

      Peak solar insolation at ground level (sun at zenith, cloudless sky) is about 1000 W/m^2, sure, but a bit more than half of that is infrared--which an ideal backlight wouldn't need to compensate for.

      --
      ~Idarubicin
    8. Re:Death of e-ink... by BrokenHalo · · Score: 1

      My prediction is that E-Ink will become higher resolution, cheaper, and faster.

      As a matter of perspective, I would suggest that even non-state-of-the-art devices such as my Sony PRS-T1 offer resolution that is actually better than the majority of printed novels, given that the texture of the (usually crappy) paper introduces inconsistencies in typeface outlines that are absent in the e-ink displays.

      I'm not saying anything against paper publications here (although I was a late convert to ebooks) but since I have moved home (hopefully for the last time) I am rationalising what books I really want to see on a shelf and what i might just want to re-read at some point. And I really don't want to have to reinforce my floors again.

    9. Re:Death of e-ink... by Khyber · · Score: 3, Informative

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunlight#Intensity_in_the_Solar_System

      Maximum, 1400+ w/m^2

      minimum, 1300.

      Half of that is infrared, then you're looking at 650 w/m^2 MINIMUM, more than 50% extra on top of that which EmperorArthur said.

      Guys, I work with light and solar irradiance/insolation all day long. You won't win this argument.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    10. Re:Death of e-ink... by Richy_T · · Score: 1

      Bust solar = astronomy which means order-of-magnitude is enough.

    11. Re:Death of e-ink... by EmperorArthur · · Score: 1

      Yeah, teach me to double check that my links work. From the intro to the article: "The total amount of energy received at ground level from the sun at the zenith is 1004 watts per square meter, which is composed of 527 watts of infrared radiation, 445 watts of visible light, and 32 watts of ultraviolet radiation."

      Of course, we're both quoting Wikipedia, so you have to take all the numbers with a huge grain of salt.

      --
      So lets pretend that we've just completed writing this code, as opposed to having just completed sabotaging it -Altera
    12. Re:Death of e-ink... by Idarubicin · · Score: 1

      Guys, I work with light and solar irradiance/insolation all day long. You won't win this argument.

      When you say "work with", I really hope that you're not getting paid very much. Or that you pay a bit closer attention to your work when it's for money. Or that a grownup is checking your figures for you before you hand in your homework.

      The original poster, Emperor Arthur, gave you the correct numbers in his very first comment. Since then you've screwed up twice in an increasingly ineffective campaign to persuade us all that you're smarter than everyone else, instead of thinking about the problem or looking up (confirming) the correct figures. First you forgot to acknowledge that a backlight doesn't need to outshine the infrared component of the solar spectrum. Then you went roaring off in a different direction, forgetting that the majority of ebook readers are used on the Earth's surface, and not above the atmosphere.

      Seriously, when you're in a hole, stop digging.

      --
      ~Idarubicin
    13. Re:Death of e-ink... by shellbeach · · Score: 1

      But sooner or later backlit LCD/LED/OLED screens will have some type of control / settings which will approximate an e-ink experience.

      I'm not so sure it's that simple -- one of e-Ink's great strengths is the battery life, since the screen requires no power except for page turns. It's a one-trick pony, of course, as you by nature don't want a high-refresh rate and so most other applications except for reading books won't work. But the trick is so damn good, I think it'll stick around for a long time to come (or at least for as long as people still care about reading books). Apart from anything else, it's just so damn nice to have a piece of electronic equipment that goes months without needing a charge, even with heavy usage.

      Personally, I carry both a 7" tablet and a kindle with me when I travel: I use the tablet for doing tablety-things and the kindle for doing booky-things. They're both so small and light (especially the kindle) that it's no issue carrying both (and if I had to ditch one, it'd be the tablet). Maybe the biggest problem for the kindle is that it does it's job *too* well -- I still have an old kindle keyboard, and haven't felt the need to upgrade; but assuming Amazon are treating them like cheap razors with the ebooks as the blades, I guess that doesn't matter too much.

    14. Re:Death of e-ink... by SoCalChris · · Score: 1

      That's just bad design. At the lowest setting it should be off.

      Why on earth would you want the back light totally off? That's unusable in every situation. At that point, just turn it off.

    15. Re:Death of e-ink... by Khyber · · Score: 1

      In space, and on several high locations on the planet that have less atmosphere to cause interference, actually.

      And even then, that's actually more like on Earth, because as soon as you get out of the atmosphere, you have other things, like UVC (which doesn't penetrate our water-laden atmosphere), to add into the equation, which gets us around 1.8kWh/m^2.

      From that exact point, you go half the way towards the sun, you're suddenly dealing with about 3.6kWh/m^2

      You might want to go back to school.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    16. Re:Death of e-ink... by Khyber · · Score: 1

      "First you forgot to acknowledge that a backlight doesn't need to outshine the infrared component of the solar spectrum."

      First, you forgot to acknowledge that any light source is emitting IR, and thus that factors into power usage and visible-light availability, thus using 445 w of light, even with our most efficient light sources, might only net you overall 110 w in the visible range.........

      You also forget that most places that might use this are ABOVE SEA LEVEL. That means the solar irradiance will be HIGHER. Remember, your typical solar irradiance figure of 1,004 w/m^2 is at SEA LEVEL. A huge chunk of the population is well above that. My numbers are not off. They've been checked and re-checked with quantum meters, light/power meters, and in most places about 3,000-4,000 feet above sea level, (remember your typical solar irradiance figure of 1,004 w/m^2 is at SEA LEVEL) you're getting my figures which are quoted in Wikipedia. Less atmospheric distortion + higher altitude (meaning closer to the sun) = higher photon flux density/power per square meter.

      I even do light testing for the more prominent LED companies, when they have new modules and chips. They come right to me, I don't even have to inquire.

      Feel free to come back when you can grow crops without light at all - that takes a true understanding of energy systems. I got on the BBC for that. H2OFarm on CountryFile. Enjoy.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    17. Re:Death of e-ink... by Idarubicin · · Score: 1

      You also forget that most places that might use this are ABOVE SEA LEVEL...My numbers are not off. They've been checked and re-checked with quantum meters, light/power meters, and in most places about 3,000-4,000 feet above sea level...

      About a third of the human population lives less than 100 metres above sea level. Most live below 200 metres. (The median living altitude for humans on earth is given as 194 metres - 636 feet - in this 1998 paper; if anything, it's likely to have shifted downward in the years since, as the majority of the world's rapidly-growing, largest cities are coastal.) In any event, you weren't quoting 4000-foot numbers; you were quoting figures for outer space. Have you even looked at what you wrote, or the source that you linked to?

      First, you forgot to acknowledge that any light source is emitting IR, and thus that factors into power usage and visible-light availability, thus using 445 w of light, even with our most efficient light sources, might only net you overall 110 w in the visible range.........

      Dude. Just give it a rest. The original poster explicitly said "At 100% efficiency...". No one said that an ideal visible light source existed; the point was to put a hard floor on the power requirement.

      While I admit that I have a certain morbid curiosity about how long you're going to keep trying to contort your comments so that you can be 'right', I figure that you're out of useful things to say now that you're struck your second I'm-a-super-duper-expert-and-can't-be-wrong pose in lieu of evidence. I'm going to go talk to people who are interesting, now.

      --
      ~Idarubicin
    18. Re:Death of e-ink... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why on earth would you want the back light totally off? That's unusable in every situation. At that point, just turn it off.

      Isn't that what I said? Turn down to zero (at he lowest setting) = off.

      Or are we into inverted Spinal Tap territory here?

  13. Still lacking by Cinder6 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The current landscape of eReaders is incredibly frustrating to me. Your choice is to go for either the superior platform or the superior hardware. Amazon has, by far, the best platform. It is ridiculously easy to side load to your devices, be it via USB, email (with each registered device having its own address), or the Send to Kindle app. Not only that, but it syncs your current position across devices, even for side loaded documents. Then there's Whispersync for Voice, which works impressively well (and provides a cheap means to get audiobooks, as well). The problem is that the hardware is just a rectangular slab with no ergonomics.

    Contrast this with Kobo and B&N. Their hardware looks and feels great. The Aura even has a higher res screen 265dpi, the same as a retina iPad). The problem, though, is that their stores are smaller and have worse prices, and no syncing for side loading (and less easy to accomplish, as well). Both Kobo and B&N have nicer firmware/reading software, as well.

    Amazon's advantages are, for me, strong enough that it makes the Kindle the better choice of the three. This irritates me, because the Aura HD looks fantastic. I may get one just for the hell of it.

    --
    If you can't convince them, convict them.
    1. Re:Still lacking by skiflyer · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Wish I had mod-points. This is so completely true, and combine it with the fact that they all come with vendor lock in, and it's even worse.

      I have a Nook simple touch, and really want to move to a front lit e-ink reader. Problem is the nook glow is the least tempting of the front lit e-readers to me. That said, I feel locked in due to the number of books already in the B&N cloud. Yes I know I can download, strip DRM, side-load, but bleh, I don't consider that a real solution.

      Some day maybe we can buy e-books instead of rent them from a couple of disjointed retailers. Then I could buy a new e-reader every year based on whoever built the best one!

    2. Re:Still lacking by SuperBanana · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Contrast this with Kobo and B&N. Their hardware looks and feels great.

      Agreed. The Nook Touch is brilliant ergonomically. People constantly ask me about it; when they hold it, they love the rounded, rubbery texture. Thing's durable as hell, too; it's survived 2 years of being in a bag with all sorts of other crap (note, the glow models are NOT durable, any screen marks show up as brighter specks. They require a screen cover!)

      The problem, though, is that their stores are smaller and have worse prices, and no syncing for side loading (and less easy to accomplish, as well).

      Sorry, what? I plug in my B&N Nook Touch, internal and external storage volumes mount, and I copy over an epub. Unmount, and presto, it's there.

      Root either the Nook or the Kindle and you can use whatever reading software you want. The only negative I see with the Kobo is that it doesn't run Android, and thus you don't get access to all the wonderful goodies you can install - however, it's reportedly very easy to hack as a linux system.

      --
      Please help metamoderate.
    3. Re:Still lacking by Cinder6 · · Score: 2

      You're right, it's the vendor lock-in that really hurts us here.

      I think it would be pretty cool if companies made Android-based dedicated eReaders based off of Google Play Books. That way, you could have competition in the hardware space and not suffer as much from vendor lock-in. Actually, what I want is for Amazon to open up their platform to allow this; they've already admitted they don't make money on the hardware, so it's not quite as far-fetched as it sounds at first (though it'll still never happen). I would easily pay even a $100 premium for the Aura HD if it had access to all of the Kindle features and my Kindle library.

      With that said, there are third-party eBook sellers, such as Baen, which are options to avoid lock-in. The only problem, again, is that there's no syncing for side-loaded books on anything but the Kindle. That's the killer feature that keeps me with Amazon. I bought a Nook with Glow Light when it came out, and while I preferred reading on it over the Kindle (until the Paperwhite came out), the lack of side-loaded syncing was what made me go crawling back.

      --
      If you can't convince them, convict them.
    4. Re:Still lacking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Kobo, Google and pretty much everyone sell Adobe DRM epubs. I can buy and read from everyone except Amazong on my Kobo. Kobo also reads amazong mobi format after you strip the DRM.

    5. Re:Still lacking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The problem, though, is that their stores are smaller and have worse price

      You've made me realise that since I bought my Paperwhite in January I haven't bought a single book from Amazon's store; in fact I haven't even registered the device to Amazon. The Kindle is so easy to sideload that I have just been reading e-books and PDFs downloaded from the net.

    6. Re:Still lacking by Intrepid+imaginaut · · Score: 1

      Sorry, what? I plug in my B&N Nook Touch, internal and external storage volumes mount, and I copy over an epub. Unmount, and presto, it's there.

      This, it's as simple as plugging in a USB thmub drive.

    7. Re:Still lacking by dbIII · · Score: 1

      There's a lot of european, chinese and russian hardware that is even better, but the price difference is large. Features like a less fragile screen and larger screens are available.

    8. Re:Still lacking by Clsid · · Score: 1

      That still is vendor lock-in. On the hand of a huge company with consumer privacy issues like Google. No thanks.

    9. Re:Still lacking by Clsid · · Score: 1

      Well, it's always hard to have something that does it all right? Everything that you have said rings true except for one part in my case. When I was choosing between products I compared the prices for books that I like in the three major stores, namely Amazon, B&N and Apple. Incredible enough and for some strange reason since I'm a big fan of purchasing stuff over Amazon, they always had the most expensive e-books. Sometimes B&N would be more expensive. Apple on the other hand was very cheap on some stuff but ridiculously expensive on others. In any case, I really didn't want to use an iPad for reading so ended up getting a Nook.

      B&N apps (like the Mac, PC, mobile versions) kind of sucks since you have to do some workarounds for them to work. I had to install Nook Study on my OS X machine for technical books since the regular version does not work with 10.7 or 10.8. Amazon has done a fantastic job in that sense and to be honest, other than the prices, what drove me away from Amazon was the advertising features they had on the Kindle. If I wanted to get a non-advertising Kindle it was more expensive than the Nook.

    10. Re:Still lacking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Amazon's whispersync feature is shit. Really. I don't have a Kindle device, but I tried it when reading an ebook I bought from Amazon on my phone and tablet and all it wanted to do was sync to the furthest read (i.e. highest page number) position and not the current position, which just doesn't work when the text has links to notes at the end of the book. It wouldn't actually be hard to make it sync to the current position you are reading, so that is what it should actually do.

      Whispersync sounds like a great idea in theory, but until it actually works properly, then it ain't worth a damn to me.

    11. Re:Still lacking by chrismcb · · Score: 1

      What sort of ergonomics do you want? I love the eink display and I think the kindle is great hardware. Not sure what I will do when my breaks,

    12. Re:Still lacking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is very easy to hack, mount it as a volume in linux and you can easily bypass the mandatory registration thingy on startup.

    13. Re:Still lacking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sorry, what? I plug in my B&N Nook Touch, internal and external storage volumes mount, and I copy over an epub. Unmount, and presto, it's there.

      This, it's as simple as plugging in a USB thmub drive.

      No it isn't. It's as simple as copying a file to a USB thumb drive. Plugging in the drive is only one step in the process. Contrast with how my iPod works: I put the iPod in the holder (I usually leave the holder plugged into the USB port) and off it goes. That really is as simple as plugging in a USB drive. I don't even have to manually unmount. It automatically does that when it's done with the sync.

      With the Kindle, side-loading is often as easy as emailing something to myself. It's rare for something to be side-loadable and require manual copying. Also, because the store is larger, I usually don't have to side-load at all. I have basically side-loaded three times: once to load a Baen Free Library book (now in the Amazon store); once to read a library book (Penguin has a weird side-load requirement); once to read a free short story.

    14. Re:Still lacking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Use calibre with one of the DRM-stripping plugins. IIRC all the major DRM schemes can be broken now. I have a Kindle Paperwhite because the hardware was the best at the time I got it, but my ebooks are a mix of things from Sony, Google, Amazon, and Project Gutenberg. Calibre can convert just about anything into anything else.

    15. Re:Still lacking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Side loading content? On my nook hd you connect the usb cable to the pc and use file manage to drag and drop. I dont really see how much simpler it could be than that. Unless of course you want the janet and John primer version.

      Apps are a little more complicated because it won run Playstore out of the box without rooting and B&N also disable install from unknown sources.

    16. Re:Still lacking by Duckman5 · · Score: 1

      Forget even connecting the Nook to your computer. I rooted my Nook Simple Touch and installed DropSync on it. That combined with Calibre's "connect to folder" feature and dropbox on my PC allows me to remotely manage all the books on my Nook. The set up isn't as easy as simply logging into your Kindle for Amazon's Whispersync, but it is more powerful since I can also REMOVE books as well as add them.

    17. Re: Still lacking by Cinder6 · · Score: 1

      For the Kindle, you don't even need to connect it to the computer. You just email it to yourself or use the Send to Kindle app, and it shows up on all your Kindle devices--not just one at a time. It then actually syncs your position between devices, which (unless things have changed) the Nook and others don't do for side loaded content.

      --
      If you can't convince them, convict them.
    18. Re: Still lacking by Cinder6 · · Score: 1

      I've never had any problems with it, and I've been using a Kindle for more than a year. I did have problems with the Nook taking a while to sync, though.

      --
      If you can't convince them, convict them.
    19. Re: Still lacking by Cinder6 · · Score: 1

      The mere fact you have to root an eReader tells me B&N did something wrong. Don't get me wrong--it's cool that you can do it, and good that there's at least one way to get better functionality--but the fact that you have to go through that effort to get the same functionality that the Kindle has out of the box means B&N still has some work to do.

      I like tinkering with my PC, but I don't want to have to tinker with every device I buy.

      --
      If you can't convince them, convict them.
    20. Re: Still lacking by Cinder6 · · Score: 1

      I'm surprised. I will admit I only did a cursory glance of titles that are on my wish list, but the Kindle price was frequently cheaper than Kobo's by a dollar or two. The difference isn't huge, but it does add up. Some are even more pronounced--Catching Fire, for instance, is $4 cheaper on Amazon than Kobo.

      Granted, I can use Calibre and strip the DRM, but my point is that it's obnoxious to have to take that step.

      --
      If you can't convince them, convict them.
    21. Re:Still lacking by Cinder6 · · Score: 1

      The Nook and Kobo readers are all more comfortable to hold than the Kindle. I like my Kindle a lot, but it's just not as nice as the Simple Touch I had.

      --
      If you can't convince them, convict them.
    22. Re: Still lacking by tapspace · · Score: 1

      I like tinkering with my PC, but I don't want to have to tinker with every device I buy.

      Tell me about it. I've had the Nook Simple Touch for a year and a half, and while it's rooted, I've never really gotten most of the cool hacks you see online to work (e.g. multi-touch). It's like if you want to spend a weekend on it without doing anything else, sure, you'll probably get it to work. Then I think about how much I make at work, and how much I could get paid just working a weekend. Then I could buy the most expensive e-reader in the world and still have money for ice cream.

    23. Re:Still lacking by Phil+Urich · · Score: 1

      I'll get an Aura if I can strip out the damn Kobo software (which, for several generations, hasn't worked for me; I've literally made Kobos crash with random PDFs and such, and the interface in general has seemed atrocious). But there are some decent launchers and apps out there, hell just on F-Droid so I wouldn't even need to get Google services on, just a hack-to-stock mod and a few pieces of custom software like ReLaunch and FBReader perhaps. Then ownCloud or whatever to sync my books et voila, side-loaded synced e-ink tablet with a great screen. So I hope to hell somebody roots this.

      --
      I remember sigs. Oh, a simpler time!
  14. Is the Pope a quitter? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    is a better question.

  15. Re:Kobo by Dzimas · · Score: 4, Interesting

    In Canada, Kobo has a much higher profile because their ereaders and tablets are marketed by Chapters Indigo, a major brick and mortar book chain. Kindle has made limited inroads here, and B&N doesnt have a physical presence to sell Nooks. The Kobo Arc tablet starts at $175 and is actually quite good (got my wife one for Christmas). The Kobo Glo and Kobo Mini ereaders were popular last Christmas, too. I don't think the company bought coverage, as others here suggest. I think they're just making an aggressive play to improve their ereaders for this fall.

  16. Can't even tell by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1

    Is this thing B&W? It isn't worth $20 to me if it's B&W.

    --
    (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    1. Re:Can't even tell by Clsid · · Score: 2

      Well, most of us stopped reading books in color when we were like 8. This is not for games you know.

    2. Re:Can't even tell by Rich0 · · Score: 1

      This is e-ink, that's the whole point. I believe e-ink is generally B&W and definitely has slow response time, which is why vendors haven't been investing as much in it. If you want a 7" HD color display, just get a Nexus 7.

      The point of e-ink is that it is particularly well-suited to reading books. The refresh is no big deal since you only flip a page every 10 seconds or so (or less), and the fact that you can just plug it in about once a month to recharge makes it very much like a paper book. The displays are passive and rely on the fact that the e-ink has contrasting reflectivity when on vs off which means that it works just as well under a 60W or 375YW light source. The passive display also reduces contrast vs ambient lighting, which makes it much less annoying to stare at for hours at a time.

      Bottom line is that if you like to read, chances are that you're doing it on an e-ink reader today. If you don't like to read, chances are you don't grok them. Just about anybody I've talked to who is a heavy reader has opted for the e-ink displays. I own one, and I don't even consider myself a heavy reader (I prefer unabridged audiobooks).

  17. 6.8' ??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "initial production run of 300,000 6.8' screens" 6.8'? SIX POINT EIGHT FOOT SCREENS???? OMG!

    1. Re:6.8' ??? by Clsid · · Score: 1

      You have to compare it to the reading experience on a paperback. Then it is a huge screen :)

    2. Re:6.8' ??? by dbIII · · Score: 1

      Huge is the Onyx boox M92 or the Kindle DX. This new kobo however is probably about as big a screen as you can get in a more convenient form factor. At the even smaller end of the scale there's a 4.3 inch ereader with a 480x800 screen.

  18. Re:Kobo by guttentag · · Score: 5, Informative

    Till last week, I had never heard of Kobo. Now there is a story everyday about Kobo.

    They've been around for a few years, but since their main revenue driver seems to be their bookstore they don't get as much attention as the more flashy iTunes or Amazon. I've only bought one book from them because I don't like the idea that their content is not in a standard epub format (I don't buy the argument that standard epubs without DRM aren't a valid business model... O'Reilly uses them... JK Rowling's "Pottermore" store uses them...). They've had licensing arrangements to be the bookstore that is tied to some dirt-cheap ebook readers you've never heard of, but they first came to my attention when Target gave them the boot last year in favor of a closer relationship with Barnes and Noble.

    Target was carrying two models of their e-ink e-readers (the WiFi and the Touch), and suddenly put them on clearance for 30% off, then 50% off. At that point I didn't have an e-ink e-reader so I figured I'd try it for 50% off.I can only read books on my iPad for so long before the weight and the backlit screen get to me. The "pearl" e-ink screen Kobo was using made all the difference. I was spending less time watching TV and more time reading books. Then they went down to 70% off as Target tried to clear the last units from their supply chain, and I spent an afternoon driving around to different locations buying them up to give to friends and co-workers as gifts. A friend of mine who is over 65 and an avid book reader (but definitely not a gadget guy... he still doesn't even own a cell phone) has been devouring books on the Kobo WiFi I gave him. His employees tell me he's sitting in his car reading it before work, and sitting in his office reading it while he eats lunch. A friend in her 20s who is a physical book "purist" has taken to the one I gave her in a similar fashion, despite the fact that she told me she'd never read e-books. I'm sure they'd get the same enjoyment out of a Kindle (until Amazon remotely deleted their books one day), but it was cheap enough and usable enough that it turned some pretty staunch anti-e-book people into devotees.

    Beyond that, their software is open source. The devices run a stripped down Linux distro and there is a community dedicated to rooting and hacking the device... and as far as I can tell they're not fighting it. It was pretty simple to SSH into the device and play around in the shell. A little Googling turns up instructions on how to do it, and videos of people running Python games on the Kobos. This alone should make Kobos a more attractive choice for the Slashdot crowd.

    But their offerings weren't really all that different from the Nook and Kindle until Kobo announced earlier this week that it was selling the "limited edition" Kobo Aura with the high-resolution screen. At 256ppi, it's pretty close to the resolution of the current generation "retina screen" iPad, which is listed as 264ppi. Plus the interface looks more usable than the Kobo I'm already spending a few hours a day reading. Totally worth it to me, but YMMV.

  19. Creeping featurism? by Tolvor · · Score: 1

    I have a Nook Color, and have had it for the last 2 years. No it does not have e-ink, but I have never needed it. I do take it outside and have read books easily at picnic tables during lunch, and in the car when waiting on someone. Indoors its readability is never a problem during day or night. Nor is this just me, as two of my family members also have Nooks. The third is my sister who has a Kindle and admits that she wishes that she had gotten a Nook for the ability to sideload content.

    E-Ink, while it does have some benefits, is adding a feature just to add another bullet point that can be presented in an ad. (*cough* Windows 8 *cough*)

    I'd write more but I have to get back to the 28,000+ books on my Nook. (Try doing that with an E-ink Kindle).

    1. Re:Creeping featurism? by dbIII · · Score: 1

      Let's guess - more than 45 degrees north? Cloudy most of the time?
      Eink has a place, and I'd buy a phone with it if I could since I can't see the LCD screen outside easily even in the shade.

    2. Re:Creeping featurism? by Clsid · · Score: 1

      I have the e-ink model and to me it is not false advertising. Some people like LCDs others prefer e-ink. I have a poor eyesight from heavy computer use so the e-ink is easy on my eyes.

      As for having family owners with Nooks, I have to say that the LendMe feature is truly amazing.

    3. Re:Creeping featurism? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      His name does sound Norwegian...

    4. Re:Creeping featurism? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      What's the point of being able to store 28,000 books on a device? At a book a day, you're good for 76 years. That's useful and e-ink is "just another bullet point"?

    5. Re:Creeping featurism? by Tolvor · · Score: 1

      Nope. Pennsylvania, USA (40.6N according to Google Earth). Cloudy no more often than most other places. In fact this is the same latitude as Spain and Turkey both of which are very bright sunny places.

      Where I'm at it is a bright sunny day today with a few scattered clouds. And my Nook without E-Ink can still be easily read in my sunny backyard without problem.

    6. Re:Creeping featurism? by Tolvor · · Score: 1

      Actually the ability to store 28000 books is far more useful than E-ink. Gone are the nerdy days of me lugging around heavy backpacks of books and enduring the jeers of high schools jerks. Gone are the awkward days of carrying several tech manuals into the office and seeing the confused looks of co-workers not in programming dept wondering why I'm bringing in so many books. Gone are the days of lending a book to a friend and never getting it back (having to choose between friend and book I'll choose having a friend and just buy the book again). Those days are gone because I have my Nook.

      Can you honestly say that the E-Ink feature (which improves readability in *extremely* bright conditions) outweighs the the convenience of having a lot of books available to me anytime?

    7. Re:Creeping featurism? by dbIII · · Score: 1

      Oh well, 27 south here and I have trouble seeing an LCD in light shade, let alone full sunlight, and it's not just my eyes. It looks like I forgot how much brighter the sunlight is here.

    8. Re:Creeping featurism? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you can't win an argument with a guy who lies for effect

    9. Re:Creeping featurism? by dbIII · · Score: 1

      So who do you think is doing that? I've never been to Pennsylvania so I've got no idea if Tolvor is lying for effect or not, but I'm certainly not. All I know is the two driving goals behind eink were sunlight readability and low power consumption.

  20. Re:Kobo by Clsid · · Score: 1

    They are big in other countries. In France they are all over the place. Hell, I thought it was an European brand to be honest.

  21. Transflective LCD by jago25_98 · · Score: 1

    How's about an old transflective screen like we used to have on the old nokias??
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqnb1AQ_nvs

    --
    A blog I run for the wealth
  22. Re:Kobo by lxs · · Score: 4, Informative

    The stuff that gets sent to the reader is in a proprietary format, but if you go to their site you can get your book in epub format. Then you may have to run it through a DRM stripper to free it completely (with the right plugins installed, this happens automagically when importing it into Calibre)
     

  23. 28000+ by bakaohki · · Score: 0

    You must be old and wise.

    --
    delete me
  24. Re:Kobo by JustOK · · Score: 1, Funny

    My local Chapters doesn't sell bricks or mortar.

    --
    rewriting history since 2109
  25. e-ink android by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sony e-readers can be jailbroken to android, if that's what OP wishes...

  26. Re: Kobo by alanQuatermain · · Score: 5, Informative

    As the guy responsible for EPUB at Kobo, I can assure you that we use EPUB for all our books, and have done for quite some time now. The files inside the archive are encrypted or not based on the wishes of the publisher: Harry Potter books aren't encrypted, for example.

  27. Re:Kobo by BrokenHalo · · Score: 2

    You and pretty much everybody else. It's a key indication that these stories are bought and paid for.

    No, it just means you (a) have been living in a barrel or (b) are probably not very much interested in reading e-books on a dedicated device, if at all.

    I don't own a Kobo device (mine is a Sony PRS-T1, and I'm very happy with it) but if I were in the market right now, I would definitely be giving the Kobo Aura HD serious consideration, if only for the large display.

  28. Its not just size by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    While i also would like something larger ( that isn't the cost of a DX.. geesh.. ) but the key is color. For e-ink to survive the long term it affordable color has to become an option, and soon.

    No, it wont ( nor should it ) be in the same market as a multimedia tablet, but i know a lot of people that have moved over to LCD tablets and all their tradeoffs as they need the color format. And as more people do this, the market will start shrinking in the e-ink world. Look at what happened with beta/vhs.. 'good enough' won due to the realities of the market.

    1. Re:Its not just size by Holi · · Score: 1

      So what you are looking for is a magazine reader not a book reader. That's really the only reason (barring children's books) I can see for color e-ink in a e-reader.

      --
      Sorry, teleporters just kill you and then make a copy. A perfect, soul-less copy.
    2. Re:Its not just size by Holi · · Score: 1

      This is what you want, unfortunately the price is outrageous. The Jetbook Color 2.

      --
      Sorry, teleporters just kill you and then make a copy. A perfect, soul-less copy.
    3. Re:Its not just size by camperdave · · Score: 1

      What a small world you must live in if the only color in it is in children's books and magazines; a world without how-to books and atlasses, without art books and history books, and science books; a sad, small, little world filled with only black and white and sixteen shades of grey.

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    4. Re:Its not just size by demonrob · · Score: 1

      ok, looking at my bookshelves, yep most of the e-book sized books are novels, not picture books or how-to books or atlasses, so no colour is not important in an e-reader used primarily for novels. What is important is to get away from ridiculous small readers and get 7 inch readers,- go on, measure a standard novel, it aint 6 inches.

    5. Re:Its not just size by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You aren't restricted to putting e-book reader sized books onto an e-book reader. It'll take any sized book, not just paperbacks.

    6. Re:Its not just size by demonrob · · Score: 1

      and your large format magazine looks really nice in 6 inches. or for that matter magazine or large format child book. You can even load them onto your 4inch phone, and that still isn't particularly satisfying. The larger colourful items want a larger colourful device, ie 10inch tablet, for best experience. But viewing the ebook equivalent of a paperback novel in a paperback novel sized ebook would be so much more satisfying than using these sub-sized 6inch ebooks.

  29. Re:Kobo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's the books that are made out of bricks and mortar. Look in the back, by self-improvement. That's a bookshelf; it just looks like a wall.

  30. Re: Kobo by dehole · · Score: 1

    What will happen to purchased encrypted ebooks if Kobo close up shop?

  31. Lock in? What lock in? by dhaines · · Score: 1

    I have a Kobo Glo with lots of legitimately purchased ebooks from Amazon and BN on it.

    All it takes is the Calibre open source library manager and a couple third-party DRM-stripping plugins. Rarely, converting from AZW, you'll need a bit of CSS skill and a text editor to track down a conversion glitch.

    Of course this entails an account at each vendor to buy the books. Downloading is handled by the Amazon and/or Adobe Digital Editions (BN/Kobo) apps used by those accounts. Just don't let the apps fondle your ereader -- that's what Calibre is for.

    This technique probably works for Nooks as they're epub-native like Kobo. Not sure how easy or effective converting into AZW/Mobi/etc would be for Kindlers, but these same tools might well do it.

  32. Re: Kobo by magic+maverick+ · · Score: 1

    So, what do you think of the awful format? How is it better than zipped HTML+CSS+images (PNG or JPEG)+an index file?

    Cheers.

    --
    HELP MY ACCOUNT HAS BEEN HACKED BY AN ILLIBERAL ART STUDENT SET TO DESTROY THE INTERWEBZ!
  33. Re: Kobo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Anything is better than HTML if you want a nice layout.

  34. Re:Kobo by j-beda · · Score: 1

    They are big in other countries. In France they are all over the place. Hell, I thought it was an European brand to be honest.

    It looks like they are based in Toronto Canada and strategic partnerships with Cheung Kong Holdings, W H Smith, Whitcoulls, and FNAC.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kobo_Inc.

    My librarian friend had decided on Kobo as being the best of the bunch a few years back, largely for their good integration with the library lending system in use in Ontario (and in most of North America - "OverDrive" ) which uses predominantly ePub distribution (DRM via Adobe I think). Now I think many reader support the library system, but back then it was less widely supported.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OverDrive,_Inc.

  35. Re: Kobo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As the guy responsible for EPUB at Kobo, I can assure you that we use EPUB for all our books, and have done for quite some time now. The files inside the archive are encrypted or not based on the wishes of the publisher: Harry Potter books aren't encrypted, for example.

    i will NOT be buying it as it still does not have folder support.even cheap $10 dollar chinese mp4 players have folder support but the idiots at kobo keep peddling bookshelves on the kobo.

    why?

    i don't want to spend my whole life mucking about with thousands of books on bookshelves on the kobo.totally retarded.

    i just want to copy/paste the books folders on my pc direct to the kobo.

    any explanation why you people are against folder support?

  36. Re: Kobo by trawg · · Score: 1

    i just want to copy/paste the books folders on my pc direct to the kobo.

    any explanation why you people are against folder support?

    That is what I do with my Kobo Touch. I mostly use Calibre to manage it but have also copied epubs over with no problems. What device do you have?

  37. Re: Kobo by trawg · · Score: 1

    As the guy responsible for EPUB at Kobo, I can assure you that we use EPUB for all our books, and have done for quite some time now. The files inside the archive are encrypted or not based on the wishes of the publisher: Harry Potter books aren't encrypted, for example.

    I was intrigued by this because every time I've looked at the Kobo store it just says " Download options: Adobe DRM EPUB ".

    The Harry Potter books don't have that at all - it looks like I have to go off-site (i.e., away from the actual Kobo store) to Pottermore to buy them?

    I've sent a couple of inquiries to the Kobo store about when they're going to have DRM free epub options directly but no response.

    At the moment I seem to only be able to buy epubs from places like Baen - but happily able to put them on my Kobo and read them. Would love there to be a proper division between DRM-free epubs in the Kobo store - until then I won't be spending any money in there.

  38. Re:Kobo by DarthVain · · Score: 1

    It doesn't matter so much about the brick and mortar stores.

    What does matter is that a large chunk of Kindle "features" are not available to Canadians, only to those living in the US.

    It doesn't take a genius to figure out why the Kubo (fully featured) is popular and the Kindle (crippled outside US) is not, at least in Canada.