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Launch of India's First Navigation Satellite Successful

An anonymous reader writes "India's first dedicated navigation satellite, the IRNSS-1A, developed by the Indian Space Research Organization, was successfully put in orbit on Monday night. The launch vehicle, PSLV-C22, bearing the 1,425-kg navigation satellite, blasted off the launch pad at the Satish Dhawan Space Center here at the scheduled lift-off time of 11.41 p.m." The satellite is the first of seven that will eventually provide a regional equivalent of GPS under complete Indian control.

89 comments

  1. Out of curiosity... by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Is India's space navigation system sufficiently similar(in terms of frequencies, antenna demands, etc.) that it will be relatively easy to shoehorn into navigation chipsets along with GPS, GLONASS, and Galileo, or is it enough of an oddball in some way, either technologically or administratively(a more hardass version of the old GPS civilian precision reduction that the US used to use or occassionally threaten to use), that this is basically irrelevant for everybody who isn't Indian military?

    1. Re:Out of curiosity... by rubycodez · · Score: 5, Funny

      we'll have to call their tech support and get a reading from a script to find out

    2. Re:Out of curiosity... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Well, for one, it will only cover the region around India, so it is irrelevant for everyone that is not in the area.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Regional_Navigational_Satellite_System

    3. Re:Out of curiosity... by Chrisq · · Score: 1

      Is India's space navigation system sufficiently similar(in terms of frequencies, antenna demands, etc.) that it will be relatively easy to shoehorn into navigation chipsets along with GPS, GLONASS, and Galileo, or is it enough of an oddball in some way, either technologically or administratively(a more hardass version of the old GPS civilian precision reduction that the US used to use or occassionally threaten to use), that this is basically irrelevant for everybody who isn't Indian military?

      Reading TFA it is substantially different, in that the satellites are in a geostationary orbit over India. I would imagine this makes the frequencies, positioning algorithms, etc. quite different. I can understand why we did it that way, you get a working system with much fewer satellites than the GPS system

    4. Re:Out of curiosity... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's a refinement of GLONASS with kinematic correction factors that grew out of Larry Ellison's experience with the America's Cup.

      I believe it's called KINASSOL

    5. Re:Out of curiosity... by Holmwood · · Score: 1

      Wish I had mod points. This is a very cogent question. Too much of what seems to be being done in space so far by prestige-oriented countries seems to simply be "follow-the-leader". Replicate the US space program (with most of its defects) as closely as possible. The Soviets even were working away on a space shuttle, though thankfully the Chinese don't seem headed down that precise dead end.

      I think the US (making a virtue out of the necessity of low budgets for space) private sector approach looks very promising, particularly SpaceX. And Canada's doing some inexpensive clever stuff that's somewhat orthogonal like its small asteroid observatory satellite(s). So too, are other countries. But a GPS/GLONASS/Galileo/Beidou clone? Yeah, I get it, the military needs it for anyone who wishes to be a Great Power independent of the US.

    6. Re:Out of curiosity... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      From the wikipedia article:
      "The design of the payload makes the IRNSS system inter-operable and compatible with GPS and Galileo."

    7. Re:Out of curiosity... by Big+Nemo+'60 · · Score: 3, Informative
      --
      In the long run we are all dead. - John Maynard Keynes (1883 - 1946)
    8. Re:Out of curiosity... by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1
    9. Re:Out of curiosity... by Capt+James+McCarthy · · Score: 5, Funny

      we'll have to call their tech support and get a reading from a script to find out

      But when you call, you get someone in Texas.

      --
      There are no loopholes. It's either legal or it's not.
    10. Re:Out of curiosity... by DigiShaman · · Score: 1

      Which phones support multiple forms of global navigation? I was under the impression that both the iPhone and Android supported only GPS along with a non-documented list of local WiFi SSID as backup for when GPS fails.

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    11. Re:Out of curiosity... by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Well, I really fucked that up, teach me to post while sick. Anyway, my intent was to suggest that a coverage area that gets you a good chunk of southeast asia, a bit of middle east, plus the entire Indian subcontinent, some stuff to the north of it, and the Indian ocean(not exactly an abandoned bit of water, for shipping and all) seems quite likely to be worth shoving into the spec sheet if you just need to implement a few additional algorithms(that something else in your product line for the Indian market will need anyway); but without world coverage it wouldn't be worth actually increasing the BoM cost all that much.

    12. Re:Out of curiosity... by ArcadeMan · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'd have an easier time understanding english from India than amurikan from Texas.

    13. Re:Out of curiosity... by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

      Apparently, the list is a decent sized one, among recent phones. My understanding is that(outside of mathematically-interesting-but-practically-useless SDR setups, which are really cool; but very computationally demanding and cost as much as most smartphones even without a host to do the compute) most GPS or GPS+others modules abstract away virtually all the dirty details and just provide position, heading, and time information(possibly some additional parameters, SNR, that sort of thing, depending on vendor and model), so the amount of OS-level support needed to include GLONASS or Galileo in addition to GPS is fairly low.

    14. Re:Out of curiosity... by Mysticalfruit · · Score: 1

      I would imagine in this day and age with software defined radios that you could have a "Positioning" system that would work with. Considering the number of regional systems that are available as well I would think that you could have a system that would use GPS + regional system + regional ground station systems to provide lots of accuracy and redundancy.

      Go check out the number of GPS like systems that are now up and running, it's crazy!

      --
      Yes Francis, the world has gone crazy.
    15. Re:Out of curiosity... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Best. Link. Ever.

    16. Re:Out of curiosity... by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 4, Funny

      We do have some deep-cover operatives working in Texas(as with other authoritarian petro-theocracies, it pays to keep an eye on them); but if somebody tells you that they are "an American from Texas", they are probably telling one of the inside jokes that they use on foreigners. Texas has texans which are a totally different thing.

    17. Re:Out of curiosity... by tanujt · · Score: 2

      We actually inherited a lot of our bureaucracy and administration from the Brits. I'm sure if you want to use the IRNSS on your cell phone, you'll just have to fill out a form to acquire a permission-form which is then submitted to a committee for speedy* evaluation.


      *Subject to the lunch and tea-times of the members of the committee.

    18. Re:Out of curiosity... by Bob+the+Super+Hamste · · Score: 1

      Actually if you want to step back a little bit from the raw signal info but not got to the other extreme you have the pseudorange, dopplar shift, carrier phase, and timing data. With that kind of data you can do useful things especially if you have a unit recording it at a well know location and communicating its data to a roving unit. With such a setup you can get accuracy on the order of a few cm instead of a few meters. Now you are in the world of RTK, differential GPS, and CORS and can use GPS for autonomous navigation as there is good enough resolution to maintain lane control. The biggest problem is that there aren't many inexpensive GPS modules that provide that data but one I have found is this one which used the uBlox LEA-6t chipset. From what I can tell the time nuts guys like it as it provides a really accurate and consistent PPS signal, and the positioning nuts (like myself) like it since with multiple units can provide reliable accurate positioning.

      --
      Time to offend someone
    19. Re:Out of curiosity... by unixisc · · Score: 1

      It seems to cover both India internally, as well as the entire neighborhood. It goes as far as Kazakhstan, most of Iran, China and some of Saudi Arabia, and on the East, up to Cambodia and Laos. Overkill for navigational purposes, but good for helping India keep a wary eye on the neighbors, particularly China and Pakistan.

    20. Re:Out of curiosity... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wikipedia says its compatible with GPS and Galileo devices.

    21. Re:Out of curiosity... by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

      Given that most of these satellite navigation systems have 'guide munitions to target' as a major(often primary) goal, building a purely domestic one is a bit of a waste of time.

    22. Re:Out of curiosity... by Chrisq · · Score: 1

      Given that most of these satellite navigation systems have 'guide munitions to target' as a major(often primary) goal, building a purely domestic one is a bit of a waste of time.

      Actually the region covers most of the likely enemies.

    23. Re:Out of curiosity... by tibit · · Score: 1

      Those satellites will be flying around the world, they won't be geostationary birds parked above India, right? While they may not offer full coverage elsewhere, any receiver will benefit from having signals from more birds available, if there's a sane way to reconcile the time bases used by different systems.

      --
      A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
    24. Re:Out of curiosity... by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      We do have some deep-cover operatives working in Texas

      Wouldn't that be Deepak cover operatives?

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
  2. Since people believe space leads to technology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    and a better society, these people will move to India now, right? Oh, sorry, asking questions on slashdot is the sign of a nutcase now.

    1. Re:Since people believe space leads to technology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

      They might. At least with the new GPS system it might be possible for them to locate a working toilet on the sub-continent.

    2. Re:Since people believe space leads to technology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not that hard to mod down difficult questions. It's difficult to face the fact that your pet theories about space are wrong.

    3. Re:Since people believe space leads to technology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Space Nutter" guy? That you? Space is just awful, isn't it? Using it in any way is madness..!

  3. But does it do the needful? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And have they tried rebooting?

  4. Congrats by HappilyUnstable · · Score: 2

    This is great news. Here's hoping for a bright and successful future for their new program!

    1. Re:Congrats by ArcadeMan · · Score: 4, Funny

      Yesterday, I read about a failed launch from Russia.
      Today, I read about a successful launch from India.

      I'm sure there's a "in Soviet Russia" mixed in with an "India tech support" joke in there somewhere.

    2. Re:Congrats by frodo+from+middle+ea · · Score: 1

      In Soviet Russia, satellites launch you, with help from Indian Tech support ?

      --
      for the last time people, I am "frodo from middle eaRTH", not "middle eaST".
  5. The roles have reversed? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Is the tech support for this satellite in Europe?

    1. Re:The roles have reversed? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Have to be somewhere in africa, shit always flows downhill

    2. Re:The roles have reversed? by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

      I'd probably avoid asking Europe for advice on navigation systems for a few years until they work things out...

    3. Re:The roles have reversed? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      With the current economical crisis here i would say shit flows to us instead of Africa.

    4. Re:The roles have reversed? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      we are currently not shitty enough, please wait a few more years then it may be true.

  6. Re:Attn mods, do not mod down! +5 INFORMATIVE by ArcadeMan · · Score: 0

    Dear AC, your whole post is pointless because you made a wrong assumption:

    * Mr. Hasselhoff actually is talented, but this goes unnoticed in his own country.

    He's also unnoticed in Canada, so the rest of your rant is pointless.

    Also, the Invisible Pink Unicorn is stronger than your so-called Beast, so we have nothing to worry about.

  7. does the voice on the GPS by nopainogain · · Score: 0

    have an imperceptible accent and put you on hold for twenty minutes before telling you to try rebooting the car?

  8. Here's hoping... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...it does the needful.

  9. iphone5 supports glonass.. by gl4ss · · Score: 3, Informative
    --
    world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
  10. Re:Plagiarized technology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't have a car you insensitive clod.

  11. This week so far: by Black+Parrot · · Score: 4, Funny

    India 1, Russia 0.

    --
    Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
  12. and there are alot of us. Federal or state? by raymorris · · Score: 0

    We are Texans, and there's a spread shitload of us.
    So the question for you in Connecticut or wherever is this:

    Do you want millions of Texans telling you how to live , through federal legislation, or do you want your state's citizens to decide how you do things there in Connecticut, and we can do it our way in Texas?

    1. Re:and there are alot of us. Federal or state? by ArcadeMan · · Score: 2

      So what... Texas is the Québec of the USA?

    2. Re:and there are alot of us. Federal or state? by Nerdfest · · Score: 1

      That's hilarious ... I've been saying exactly that for years.

    3. Re:and there are alot of us. Federal or state? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, its the other way around.

      Connecticut is the Québec of the USA. Full of socialist, communist, and "French" people who want to tell everybody else how to live.

      Texas is like Calgory. Make money in the Oil and Gas Industry, then pay taxes to support those people back east.

    4. Re:and there are alot of us. Federal or state? by QuasiSteve · · Score: 1

      Yeah but that whole independence thing tends to stop at the state level.

      I.e. rephrase as follows...
      The question for you in Austin or wherever is this:
      Do you want millions of Houstonians telling you how to live, through state legislation, or do you want your county's citizens to decide how you do things there in Travis, and we can do it our way in Harris? ...and there'll be many in Houston, Dallas, etc. who would absolutely love it if Austin and others were controlled top-down by a more politically aligned state.

      At least, that's what an Aggie told me ;)

    5. Re:and there are alot of us. Federal or state? by Goody · · Score: 2

      Do you want millions of Texans telling you how to live , through federal legislation, or do you want your state's citizens to decide how you do things there in Connecticut, and we can do it our way in Texas?

      It depends. People in every state likely have the same needs and desires when it comes to things like education, healthcare, and abortion, or freedoms like who they can marry. It's silly to have to drive across a state line to address these needs or desires. If y'all want to make the steer the state animal or drive 85 on your roads, have at it. States' rights are a vestige of 18th century America, in my opinion, and today are used more for political purposes than ensuring freedom and keeping the Union viable.

      --
      Tired of being "punished" by the Slashdot $rtbl since 2002. I'm now over at http://soylentnews.org/ .
    6. Re:and there are alot of us. Federal or state? by MightyYar · · Score: 2

      While both Connecticut and Texas are relatively rich states and contribute more to the federal treasury than they take, people in Connecticut contribute about 3x as much toward the treasury compared with Texans... Only Delaware, Minnesota, and New Jersey pay more into the treasury per capita versus what they take out. That's part of the reason the people in NJ were so upset when congress initially balked at Sandy relief.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    7. Re:and there are alot of us. Federal or state? by unixisc · · Score: 1

      I thought that the description of Connecticut above was actually that of Vermont.

    8. Re:and there are alot of us. Federal or state? by unixisc · · Score: 1

      Wouldn't it be the other way? Since the state capitol is in Austin, wouldn't the question for those in Houston, Dallas, San Antonio, Armadillo or wherever be - Do you want millions of Austinians telling you how to do things, or do you want to arrange it locally in Houston, Dallas, et al?

      On a different note, it's interesting how this thread had been hijacked. Unlike the satellite

    9. Re:and there are alot of us. Federal or state? by PPH · · Score: 1

      No. They are a bunch of upstarts that broke away fro Mexico. And if we cut off the pipeline of federal subsidies, they'll just go back.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    10. Re:and there are alot of us. Federal or state? by Type44Q · · Score: 1

      People in every state likely have the same needs and desires when it comes to things like... abortion

      Look, either they're fundamentalist nuts or brainwashed Obama-supporters. While I'll admit that I don't know which are worse, they still aren't exactly the same thing. :)

    11. Re:and there are alot of us. Federal or state? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Who do you think is going to be telling who how to do what? Texas telling Connecticut? You might remember the last time Texas and its friends picked a fight with Connecticut and its friends (hint: it didn't end well for Texas et al.)

      Texas is the tallest midget in the circus.

    12. Re:and there are alot of us. Federal or state? by Maritz · · Score: 1

      While both Connecticut and Texas are relatively rich states and contribute more to the federal treasury than they take,

      Only Delaware, Minnesota, and New Jersey pay more into the treasury per capita versus what they take out.

      Mildly confused. Connecticut and Texas contribute more to the treasury than they take, but not per capita..?

      --
      I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
    13. Re:and there are alot of us. Federal or state? by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      LOL, that would be a trick, wouldn't it?

      No, I meant that both Connecticut and Texas pay more than they take, but if you are from Connecticut this imbalance is much larger than if you are from Texas. I think it's like $6000 per capita in Connecticut and in the $2000 range for a Texan.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    14. Re:and there are alot of us. Federal or state? by Maritz · · Score: 1

      Thanks for clearing that up ;)

      --
      I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
  13. So far, it sucks. by localman57 · · Score: 4, Funny
    I am one of the early beta testers for this project. The satellite went live a few hours ago. And as far as I can tell, it's far, far inferior to the US GPS system. With GPS, I get very accurate longitude and latitude, and coarse altitude location information. All the INRSS system keeps telling me is :

    You are somewhere on the surface of a sphere 20121.2km from satellite #1

    Although they've promised a firmware upgrade that will show you as being somewhere on the circle that represents the intersection of that sphere and the Earth's surface.

    1. Re:So far, it sucks. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I guess they are smart enough not to risk three satellites at once?

    2. Re:So far, it sucks. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      One satellite and you expect miracles? Of course it can't accurately place where you are. Even the US GPS system requires you to get a fix on at least three, and preferably four, satellites to really put you on the map (as it were).

    3. Re:So far, it sucks. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Seeing as this is the FIRST of the satellites to be launched, what more would you expect? You need signals from multiple satellites in order to calculate latitude and longitude...
      If you don't understand this, I wonder what you're doing beta testing on this project.

    4. Re:So far, it sucks. by QuasiSteve · · Score: 1

      'woosh' comes to mind :)

    5. Re:So far, it sucks. by hippo · · Score: 1

      That's actually amazing. One satellite and your device can tell how far away it is.

    6. Re:So far, it sucks. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How the fuck is this 'Insightful'?

    7. Re:So far, it sucks. by kannibal_klown · · Score: 1

      I'm pretty sure that it was a joke-posting.

    8. Re:So far, it sucks. by localman57 · · Score: 1

      Some people mod insightful instead of funny because insightful grants karma, and funny doesn't, IIRC.

    9. Re:So far, it sucks. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      It is not three, preferably four. It is four.

      One tells you a circular line on the globe where you could be at any place on that line.
      Two tells you two intersections of that line you could be.
      Three tells you either one of the two points where you are located within a margin, or what altitude you are within a margin.
      The fourth one is to determine which of the two points you are located, your altitude, and gives significant increase in accuracy by providing overlapping spatial and temporal data.

      It may appear that three is enough as most receivers have a rudimentary altimeter based on pressure. Even in such cases, the accuracy is very poor and reasonable navigation requires computation of previous known points along with your estimated speed and direction. It is better than doing it by hand (unless you have a compass and know how to use it), but not by much.

    10. Re:So far, it sucks. by the_other_chewey · · Score: 2

      Even the US GPS system requires you to get a fix on at least three, and preferably four, satellites to really put you on the map (as it were).

      Not this again...
      You need a minimum of four sats, period.

    11. Re:So far, it sucks. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I am one of the early beta testers for this project.

      with no knowledge of how GPS system works, how did you even get to be a beta tester?

    12. Re:So far, it sucks. by BLToday · · Score: 1

      Don't you need at least 3 satellites overhead to calculate a geocode?

    13. Re:So far, it sucks. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Insightful? surely "funny", and quite deliberately so? now we have geek in-jokes that don't work on slashdot moderators... sigh!

  14. Third world countries of the past stepping up by future+assassin · · Score: 2

    while "democratic" first world countires are reverting to totalitarianism. As the old third world wealth and world power grows its going to be interesting how the "old" first woirld citizen react to this when their applying for the "tech support" jobs when the roles are reversed.

    --
    by TheSpoom (715771) Uncaring Linux user here. I have nothing to add to this but please continue. *munches popcorn*
    1. Re:Third world countries of the past stepping up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and then you look outside the window and see the teeming masses living in slavish conditions, realize you don't give a fuck if your fellow country men sell their daughters to feed the family and launch another satellite. also engrish

    2. Re:Third world countries of the past stepping up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Congrats India - way to go

  15. eh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Take that Russia!

  16. Re:Plagiarized technology by PPH · · Score: 1

    Damned right! Look at all that technology they stole from that great American, Wernher von Braun.

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
  17. Score! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    India 1 Russia -3

  18. No, Austin is much different from College Station by raymorris · · Score: 1

    An Aggie, eh? I happen to be typing this on a computer owned by the Texas A&M System. I'd much prefer to let the Austinites
    have their coed public restrooms in Austin, and we can keep our "Men's Room" signs up. Tomorrow, I'll be shooting fireworks, which
    are illegal in many parts of the state. I happen to be a pyro geek, spending hundreds of dollars and many hours preparing my show.
    As I enjoy the beautiful chemistry in the sky, I'll be glad that Houston politicians can't stop me. They can do it their way in their city.

    > and there'll be many in Houston, Dallas, etc. who would absolutely love it if Austin and others were controlled top-down by a more politically aligned state.

    Not so much that I've seen. We may joke about the tea sips and their hippy ways, but we're glad to let them be them, in Austin.
    Besides, if Austin is to their liking, fewer of them will come here to College Station. :)

  19. 'cept for the ones who can't read the Bill of Righ by raymorris · · Score: 1

    > People in every state likely have the same needs and desires when it comes to things like education, healthcare, and abortion, or freedoms

    Connecticut is one of only four states with a law specifically allowing abortion, explicitly saying your GF has the right to murder your child.
    Texas is currently passing a law saying that more than five months into a pregancy, abortion is illegal. So the citizens of the different
    states don't have the same desires in terms of abortion, for sure.

    Healthcare? Show me a Texan who desires Obamacare and I'll show you an Austinite, who probably came from California (meaning they're not a real Texan).
    Maybe that's a bad example, because in the last poll, 56% of DEMOCRATS nationwide said Obamcare is unconstitutional.

    Education? Some local school boards in Texas, at the behest of the parents in the community, teach that the Genesis story may
    have hints of how the universe was actually created.* Would people in San Francisco desire that to be taught?

    * and interestingly, every new scientific find is consistent with the idea that the old testament is indeed based on actual events,
        in the same way that Saint Nick the Christmas character is based on a real guy.

  20. Re:Plagiarized technology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    He should get out first.

  21. india invented a lot of mathematics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    like, they were the first big users of the digit system (inventors even), the '0', the sine, the cosine, they built analog computers (orrerys), spherical geometry, some had a solar centric orbital model centuries before copernicus, and on and on and on. they had some very interesting astronomical observatories built by their government, which of course all went to pot once the british empire invaded and took over.

    people are just fucking stupid bigots. india was ahead of the world for a long time in a lot of tech, there is absolutely no reason to believe they cant be again.

  22. India by NewYork · · Score: 1

    "If you wish to keep slaves, you must have all kinds of guards. The cheapest way to have guards is to have the slaves pay taxes to finance their own guards. To fool the slaves, you tell them that they are not slaves and that they have Freedom. You tell them they need Law and Order to protect them against bad slaves. Then you tell them to elect a Government. Give them Freedom to vote and they will vote for their own guards and pay their salary. They will then believe they are Free persons. Then give them money to earn, count and spend and they will be too busy to notice the slavery they are in." --Alexander Warbucks