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Chinese Developer To Build Ocean-Water Thermal Energy System
the_newsbeagle writes "When you've got a wacky high-tech idea that will cost a lot of money, head to China. Lockheed Martin is the latest company to heed this advice. For decades, Lockheed has investigated ocean thermal energy conversion, in which the temperature difference between warm surface water and cold deep water is leveraged to produce power. Just a few years ago, the company was working with the Navy and discussing a possible OTEC pilot project in Hawaii's Pearl Harbor. That idea has since been scrapped, and Lockheed is now partnering with a Chinese resort developer to build the 10-MW pilot plant off the coast of southern China. Lockheed hasn't disclosed the cost of building this plant, but outside experts say it might cost more than $300 million."
We have no idea what this is going to do to the local ecology, n'mind to the bigger picture. We do know that the oceans have a bit of a role in the climate, but we don't know very much at all about the what & how--and we know this too. So this is pretty much irresponsible.
The most commonly used heat cycle for OTEC is the Rankine cycle using a low-pressure turbine. Systems may be either closed-cycle or open-cycle.
-- wikipedia
considering the parties involved, it's obvious this is going to be a completely closed-cycle system. i'll wait until someone make and open-cycle version for Linux.
Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
"When you've got a wacky high-tech idea that will cost a lot of money..."
Like going to the moon, or building a sprawling Interstate system... Ah, this is the reason we're a failing power and will be overtaken early this century.
But let's keep doing what we're doing - spend wastefully*, tax incoherently, surveil our own citizens, and argue about whether or not women should be able to control their own destinies.
(* I understand the irony of 'spend wastefully' in a topic regarding spewing money on public works. Yet there's a huge difference between advancing the state of humanity and buying a showy and useless warboner superiority fighter.)
Why are they letting a programmer do civil engineering?
Table-ized A.I.
Please hurry!
The one in Okinawa Japan was on TV the other day generating 12 KW. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean_thermal_energy_conversion#Japan
If someone could supply cold ocean water in large quantities at the surface, it could significantly cut the cost of air conditioning for large hotels and office buildings.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
I believe there's a couple of buildings in Toronto that have been saving energy this way for years.
I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.
Raise your hand if you think that equalizing the surface and deep ocean temperatures is a good thing to do for this planet?
I would rather black people get funding for housing, than spend money on expensive OPEC. Various renewable energy sources have been looked at since the 70s. Wind is winning. Solar is not doing badly. Geothermal might be of use for space heating. Tidal, wave, OPEC have lost. Let the Chinese give OPEC a try.
At 2 billion dollars a day, that 300 million would last about... 4 hours.
I visited the energy park on the west side of the big island of Hawaii eight years ago or so. It's quite an interesting place. They have large ~3 foot plastic pipes going down deep into the ocean. They pull up cool water from various depths. They have tenants at the facility trying to make use of that cool water. I remember a solar power plant, and an algae bio-fuel facility (I guess algae likes that kind of water). They also had a company that took the cold salt water, pulled the salt out, and bottled it for very expensive drinking water (it's supposed to be very pure).
Here are the two problems with the demonstration OTEC plant they had decommissioned that I remember the docent telling me about:
1. The salt water just eats everything.
2. The low temperature difference between the deep water and the surface means that you have to build a BIG machine to get net energy out.
I wish them luck. This is not a slam dunk.
OMG - it's not just the windmills but the trees, mountains, and every fucking building on the planet that does this, so are we all doomed?
Now you cannot possibly be so stupid as to not have picked this up so what is you motivation in writing such bullshit to trick the gullible? Is it a prank or do you just feel like you want to trick kids as a bit of propaganda to help out the oil industry? As someone in the oil and coal industries I can say that we're doing quite well without your "help", so kindly fuck off because you are making us all look bad.
The wind turbine syndrome shit is all a transparent con by some idiots that are annoyed at windmills ruining their view. The instant cure for wind turbine syndrome appears to be getting some sort of financial benefit from windmills.
This way we can pump heat directly into the deeper ocean and not have to wait for heat to slowly exchange from the surface!
I'm sure there won't be any bad side effects.
She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
This story is ridiculous. Everybody knows that the Chinese just copy everything!
It's the USA that really innovate - that's why they're number 1. USA! USA! USA! /sarcasm
Arthur C. Clarke already warned us the deep-ocean dwellers might not take kindly to dumping heat into their environment.
$300 million for 10MW? Are they serious? Even for renewable power sources that's an awful lot of money. For example, this concentrated solar power station produces 11MW and cost $46 million. It's an interesting project, but if it cost that much I don't know how it could pay off. Maybe the capacity factor is higher? Operational costs lower? Not sure.
Seems like Japan would be the better place for and Ocean-Water Thermal Energy System.
Are you an idiot or an asshole? It is well known that wind turbines cause local disturbances which have no discernible effect on larger weather systems, and some quick research will turn this fact up.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
While I'm not sure how much energy is represented by the ocean temperature differentials in question (As efficient per square meter as a solar panel?), I'm pretty sure maintenance costs will be prohibitive. The ocean is famous for chewing up what we throw at it. Anything made of metal is probably a significant maintenance cost. Not sure it's possible to do a cement structure of sufficient size, in mid ocean, in deep water.
Please do not read this sig. Thank you.
Hawaii already tried and failed at OTEC back in the late 70's. The difference between surface and deep water temperature determines the max theoretical efficiency and it turned out not to be high enough to make the process work given real-world heat losses.
After the OTEC project shut down, the state had a deep-water pipe off the Kona coast that they were wondering what to do with. Fortunately for Hawaii, at the same time the California Coastal Commission was making life miserable for an abalone farmer in California. He was trying to leverage some aquaculture research done at a marine lab near Monterey by seeking permission to sink a pipe into Monterey Canyon and pull up cold water to water his kelp which he would feed to the abalone. The Coastal Commission denied his request and so he picked up and moved to Hawaii where he started an abalone farm using the failed OTEC infrastructure.
The Commission's stupidity cost California taxes on a lucrative business as well a few jobs - a practice the state continues to this day.
The farm has done very well over the years. This species of kelp when doused with the deep cold water grows on the order of a foot a day. The farm harvests the kelp and chops it into little bits which are fed to baby abalone. The abs are harvested when they're a couple of inches across (way below legal limit if the abs were wild) and are shipped to Japan as an ultra-premium food.
Never heard of the 1960's, and the butterfly effect. School has changed that much? Rachel would be mad at you for your BS, and ask you to imbibe in some DDT for your children's sake. She was where I heard of the butterfly, and if you will look at the early research off the NWS, on hurricanes, it starts as a breeze in Africa.
The company I worked at for years, TRW (since swallowed up by Northrop Grumman), had a similar project in Hawaii some years before I joined. Company rumor was that the project failed because it's budget was drained by all the VPs and other executives who felt they had to go to Hawaii and "inspect" the project. If Lockheed puts theirs at a remote part of the Chinese coast they may avoid this.
Had millions of it can never be done type.