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NSA Hacked Email Account of Mexican President
rtoz writes "The National Security Agency (NSA ) of United States hacked into the Mexican president's public email account and gained deep insight into policymaking and the political system. The news is likely to hurt ties between the US and Mexico. This operation, dubbed 'Flatliquid,' is described in a document leaked by whistleblower Edward Snowden. Meanwhile U.S. President Barack Obama's administration is urging the Supreme Court not to take up the first case it has received on controversial National Security Agency cybersnooping."
US government attorneys argue that the Supreme Court does not have the jurisdiction to take the case, filed in July by the Electronic Privacy Information Center (EPIC).
First time I've seen the government argue that the Court doesn't have jurisdiction.
All the other cases that have been quashed were either from claiming the plaintiff had no standing to sue, or that it involved State Secrets.
It's especially ballsy to try and argue that the Supreme Court doesn't have jurisdiction.
A US Supreme Court decision to take the case would be "a drastic and extraordinary remedy that is reserved for really extraordinary causes," argued Donald Verrilli, an administration lawyer, in a statement released late Tuesday.
"drastic and extraordinary remedy"
No shit. It certainly seems like we need one of those.
[Fuck Beta]
o0t!
If we can't play nice with our neighbors how can we be expected to play nice with anyone?
It's clear that no one can trust the NSA. Period.
Right,
And to first moron claiming, that's what spy agencies does and every nation does this, should know that's exactly how thieves justify what they do -- everyone does it, thus me too.
Think, really think first, then reply if you feel like it.
I can say nobody is surprised this happened. President Calderón would have been silly not to assume something like this.
The National Security Agency (NSA ) of United States hacked into the Mexican president's public email account and gained deep insight into policymaking
OK, seriously? From his public email? Even Obama has a "public email" you can send shit to. Little old ladies and bent out of shape whack jobs pounding away at their keyboard send stuff to El Presidente's "public email".
Next...
If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
We dont have "Taco" Bell in Mexico, we have real tacos.
Could I get a citation on Snowden claiming to know all about China's and Russia's intelligence?
Was just what they renamed 'America Bell' when they expanded the chain from Mexico to the US :)
It was originally meant to be a tongue in cheek jab at American liberty, but like so many other things was lost in the march of corporatisation.
"How's that 'most transparent administration' in history thing workin' out fer ya?"
I've been to a Taco Ball in Tijuana.
Here is one for China. I'll leave the rest to you.
Snowden: 'There's A 0% Chance' The Russians Or Chinese Received Any Classified NSA Documents
Snowden also insisted he was able to protect the documents from China’s spy services because he was familiar with that country's intelligence capabilities through his work as an NSA contractor.
In his job, he had targeted Chinese operations and taught a course on Chinese cyber-counterintelligence.
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
Looks like Snowden has become something of a disgruntled ex-employee now. I guess that's why he's keen on embarrassing the US rather than say Russia or China.
From the NYT: " He also asserted that he was able to protect the documents from China’s spies because he was familiar with that nation’s intelligence abilities, saying that as an N.S.A. contractor he had targeted Chinese operations and had taught a course on Chinese cybercounterintelligence.
“There’s a zero percent chance the Russians or Chinese have received any documents,” he said. "
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/18/world/snowden-says-he-took-no-secret-files-to-russia.html?_r=1&
I believe he's crusading for all people. For instance, the children. It's well know that the NSA enjoys watching everyones children online and that they are sick bastards.
NSA -> Watching your children - reading their email - looking at their photos
They're disgusting.
US government attorneys argue that the Supreme Court does not have the jurisdiction to take the case, filed in July by the Electronic Privacy Information Center (EPIC).
i would love to see their response when mexico demands extradition. yes, mexico can extradite people from the US.
i'm pretty sure espionage is a capital crime.
Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
Spying on foreign governments is pretty much the job description of the NSA. Spying on domestic communications is something they get away with, spying on foreign communications is what they were created to do.
I imagine the Mexican government will be publicly shocked to learn these details, but their counterintelligence teams have likely privately detected and thwarted other US hacking attempts.
Snowden turned all of his documents over to journalists whom he trusts to perform responsible disclosure.
He says he doesn't even have the documents any more.
Snowden hasn't disclosed anything publicly... Greenwald et. al are doing the disclosing.
Greenwald has disclosed lots of different things including spying on Brazil, the European Union, Mexico, etc. No doubt, he may get around to China and Russia some day (if the documents are in the pile).
I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
Snowden says he gave all his documents to Greenwald. I assume he decided to to take any of the Chinese or Russian ones with him when he left the US. Most of these new stories are from those documents that Greenwald is picking through.
That's not the same as claiming that "he claims to know all about China's and Russia's intelligence". He was saying that they didn't get the documents from him since he didn't have them after turning them over.
to believe that this sort of thing will forever remain a secret ? Sooner or later this sort of thing will become public knowledge; I suppose that the best that they can hope for is that, by then, no one will care.
Regardless of the legality or morality of this, or that ''it is just the NSA's job'', they should have forseen that it WILL become known, at that it is likely to cause a public storm or damage USA reputation or international relationships. Instead they seem to act surprised and then try to blame the messenger (Mr Sowden). I ask again: Are they that naive or arrogant or stupid to believe that this sort of thing could forever remain a secret ?
Nor enquire about their country's spy agencies' practice of doing the same.
You need to read that again, and then I think you have a choice to make. On one hand his job was described as a system administrator and he used his elevated privs to steal the documents. On the other hand, he is claiming that he was involved in actual intelligence work himself. Which is it? I doubt that he really was dual hatted - maintaining internal systems with elevated privs to see and move documents, and teaching classes while conducting intelligence courses himself. All that in the 90 days or so he was employed as an NSA contractor.
... he was familiar with that country's intelligence capabilities through his work ...
... he had targeted Chinese operations and taught a course on Chinese cyber-counterintelligence...
Where are the documents he used to teach the course on Chinese intelligence, among others?
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
Actually they are supposed to be spying on *enemy governments*.
Problem is we dont have any more of those left, but bureaucracy doesnt know how to shut down when it is not needed. Instead they keep trying to make new enemies. And unfortunately succeeding...
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Friends don't let friends enable ecmascript.
You don't know what you're talking about.
You are welcome on my lawn.
Why is this news? Every country does this. If your country's intelligence service doesn't try things like this, then you should be seriously worried and perhaps fire them all.
Slashdot was never relevant.
Hey look. cold fjord is back to spread some more FUD on behalf of the government. Don't you ever feel embarrassed about how much of a bootlicker you are?
You need to read that again, and then I think you have a choice to make.
I don't need to read anything again. What you claimed he said is not what he said. You're just spreading more baseless FUD like in the last article.
You missed the point, my friend.
Being familiar with them is not the same as "to know all about China's and Russia's intelligence". He does not claim what you claim he does. Also, posting as AC is pretty lame cold fjord. It's not like we don't know it's you.
Snowden has done more damage than good. F him!
"The news is likely to hurt ties between the US and Mexico."
Hardly. When you have huge difference of powers the weaker nation, Mexico in this case, can only act as offended but forget the issue very soon and go on.
I'm basing my statement on what he claimed. If you don't like that then you should ask yourself why he made those claims. You are spreading FUD to benefit him and his actions, probably because you approve of them despite (or because of?) the damage they did to the US and allied intelligence community.
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
Need to set up some honeypots to feed NSA the info they want to believe in.
That's not the same as claiming that "he claims to know all about China's and Russia's intelligence". He was saying that they didn't get the documents from him since he didn't have them after turning them over.
Re-read the quote. It said nothing about Russia.
What it said was that he knew the Chinese could not have gotten his document cache while he had it in Hong Kong because he knew exactly what they could do. Which means that even if he doesn't have an electronic copy of the document that told him how to beat the People's Republic's security, he has that info in his head somewhere.
I suspect he actually wants to to talk about that, but can't because the Russians probably made not talking about anybody's secrets condition #1. And Putin doesn't have a lot of checks on his power.
By his story he doesn't need the documents to out the Chinese. He trained people in the NSA on defeating the Chinese. He could write "Ed's guide to fucking with the Great Firewall" without any documentation at all.
I suspect the Russians would not like that, so he can;t really do it.
I suspect even if that's on Greenwald's pile Greenwald won't mention it. In the Anglophone Left-Wing tradition there's a long history of ignoring the great crimes of foreign leaders if your current leaders do anything wrong. That's why there was a US Communist party after Stalin. There's a reason Wikileaks has not had any leaks out China or Russia, despite the fact that both countries are hundreds of times worse then the US.
Next you're going to tell us you don't have Sears ponchos, you have Mexican ponchos.
"National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
If you reread it again you see that he claims to have taught classes related to Chinese intelligence. Where are the documents for that? Why do we see nothing about Chinese intelligence activity, but plenty about the UK, and US, not to mention Germany, France, Canada, Australia, and probably others? I would think he would have the most immediate control over documents for a class that he taught. Where are they? Where are any documents about Chinese or Russian intelligence activities?
I'm quite certain that revealing Russian intelligence secrets would not sit well with the rulers of his future home, especially since Putin was a Lieutenant Colonel in the KGB.
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
It was just a coincidence that Mexico went full on drug gang war at the exact time the ruling party was voted out.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
I have little need to post anonymously, and it is lame for you to think that there aren't other people that have a factually based opinion similar to mine.
So, I'll ask again: Snowden claimed to have taught classes related to Chinese intelligence work. He should have had complete control over documents for his own class, so where are they? Hmmm? Where are the documents relating to Chinese intelligence operations?
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
No moron it's called putting the situation in it's appropriate context. The NSA or the government for that matter does not operate in a vacuum. As long as there are other countries practicing espionage against US interests it would be foolish in the extreme to de-fang their own intelligence services. Just like if every country destroyed their nuclear arsenals the US could get rid of theirs.
You know, like McKinnon was being done over like a kipper for and Aaron Schwartz was hounded for.
It's illegal in Mexico AND the USA.
Extra-illegal in the USA, indeed.
Don't you know, you could make more money as a butcher.
Momentarily, the need for the construction of new light will no longer exist.
As I said, I suspect one of Putin's conditions is that he stop saying anything. Putin's got a weird little love-hate relationship with Obama going on. It involves lots of posturing, but very few actually hostile actions. For example he could have really screwed Obama simply by secretly shipping Russian air defense units to the Russian military base in Syria, and blowing a few fighters out of the sky. Instead he negotiated a compromise that solved the Syria question. And if Ed Snowden is on Russian soil tweeting about how evil Obama is at the wrong minute Putin's careful choreography just won't work. The deal Putin offered him was probably one of those offers that are too good to refuse, and it probably involved a lot of Ed Snowden being very very quiet.
I suspect Greenwald won't print any stuff that implicates any government not in the Anglosphere. Partly that's because he doesn't think of it as news to say the Chinese are unfree, partly that's because he doesn't want to endanger Snowden so he doesn't want to piss off un-free Russia, but mostly I suspect it's that he has no reason to. If he's anti-British and anti-American he's gonna assume anything that implicated non-British and non-American countries is BS propaganda. If he's not he probably doesn't want to cripple our operations against those countries by revealing exactly which hacks we use to break the Great Firewall.
Both hounded for doing that.
The former receiving a demand to extradite to face charges despite there being no proof of the damages asserted oddly enough to a level that meets the requirements for extradition.
In this case, if Mexico ask for someone to face charges, I doubt that there will be any push from the Merkin government to combat international cyberterroristm.
'cos it's not cyberterrorism if the USA does it.
it's only a Third-World beaner email account
So don't you waste your time on me.
I think you're missing the point of his leaks. He doesn't want to reveal spying done to Washington's enemies (i.e., China and Russia), as that would be damaging to national security. Instead, he wants to show that the US is spying on Mexico (and Brazil) the same time it calls them its allies, which is fucking disgusting, in my opinion. If you want to have allies, don't treat them the same way you treat your enemies. I hope Snowden can help change that, or at least unmask this hipocrisy.
Revealing what USA knows about chinese spying methods would enable chinese to alter these methods to evade american counterspying. Why do you want Snowden to release that information?
You mean like the way the US, UK, Germany, France, .... and the rest have to alter their operations (if it is even possible) now that Snowden has revealed their operations?
Snowden has revealed US spying against China. He has not revealed spying done by China. Why?
More Mexicans have been killed in the current drug war/narco-insurgency than there were Americans killed in Vietnam. Do you think the US might reasonably want to keep an eye on that, especially since the violence bleeds over the border, US-Mexican border areas are dangerous on the US side, and drugs are flooding over the border?
You might also want to consider the many countries in Europe that are both friendly to the US, and harbor Islamic extremists with ties to terrorism. The ringleader of the 9/11 hijackers came from living in Germany, for example.
I think you need rethink your ideas on this.
...I've always considered that:
a) anything I post on the web is essentially permanent.
b) emails are *basically* like writing a message on a postcard; 'private' ostensibly, but really readable by anyone that wants to.
Clearly, nobody explained "B" to the Mexican president.
-Styopa
The US administration also believes the EIPC suit cannot move forward because it argues the [supreme] court lacks authority under the 2001 Patriot Act to weigh in on the legality of NSA activities.
So how does that work? I thought the Supreme court was the highest authority on the law in the US?
Never trust a man in a blue trench coat, Never drive a car when you're dead
The decision about what to publish or not is up to the newspapers. Obviously Der Spiegel, being a German newspaper, doesn't really give a shit about what the NSA thinks or whether its spy operations on its neighbours get busted. After all the USA didn't hesitate to hack foreign news firms, would it?
I thought that was pretty much the reason for the NSA's existance. So I guess we should go back to the time when it was considered ungentlmanly to spy on our neighbors. While we are at it it is kind of mean to keep our neighbors our of our country, Let's make the borders more pourous than they arlready are. While we are at it why do we have all these weapons. We need to get rid of them. Come to think of it it is kind of rude to keep saying the area between the countries of Canada and Mexico belongs to the United States. After all it belonged to France, Russia, Britain, and Mexico beforehand (not the indians becuase they do not really have a big financial interest in the U.S. legislature. I guess they are kind of like white people in that respect) So let's close down the United States. Pourous borders worked great for the first nations, and I am sure it will work great for the USA too. The USA belongs to Mexico now. The United States has no balls, and will go along withwhatever politically correct magnanimous view of society that the media wants to give us.
Viva Mexico. Every single country on the planet is allowed to look after it's interests, and defend it's borders except the United States because the United States is run by evil white people (ignore the fact that there are relatively few white poeple left in large swaths of the country, and being white is a pretty derrogatory insult to most people in the USA)
The Supreme Court of the United States, the highest federal court in the country, doesn't have the jurisdiction to challenge the NSA? What kind of bullshit is that?
I have found something really good, checkout www.galaxkey.com
As long as there are other countries practicing espionage against US interests it would be foolish in the extreme to de-fang their own intelligence services.
So how does that explain why the US needs to collect call information for most, if not all, American citizens? If the NSA wants to target foreign militaries for spying, fine. Enemy foreign governments, sure. That's what they're supposed to be doing. Domestic civilian spying, on the other hand, is inexcusable, even by your logic.
"City hall" in German is "Rathaus" Kinda explains a few things......
Not, Just the Mexican President is stoopedoodebidoo and those who voted for him.
Those who voted (or not) for him will suffer the same: more taxes & less freedom (even theirs pets).
On one hand his job was described as a system administrator and .....
I don't think I've ever heard of him describe himself as a system administrator. I've heard NSA & government bigwigs call him that, but they've been spreading FUD about him since day 1, so I'm more likely to believe what he says.
He's called himself an infrastructure analyst, and his job was to figure out new ways to break into protected systems.
"City hall" in German is "Rathaus" Kinda explains a few things......
The Chinese government is, by most people's perceptions, an enemy of the US people. There is no reason to expose that the US knows how to break into their networks.
The US government is supposed to be, by most people's ideals, the friend of the US people. This was not the case, as has been demonstrated by Snowden's revelations. This needs to change.
There is no reason to expose US tactical measures against an enemy government, but there is every reason to expose illegal US tactical measures against the very population of people that that US government is supposed to serve.
"City hall" in German is "Rathaus" Kinda explains a few things......
There's another reason, which I'm surprised nobody on /. has stated, due to the types of people who should frequent a joint like this.
In the IT industry, analytical personality types are over-represented. This personality type values integrity and competence. It also abhors hypocrisy.
Everybody knows taht China and Russia are dirtbags when it comes to human rights. That's not news to anybody who has been awake for more than 5 minutes of the past 2 decades.
The US government repeatedly condemns both Russia and China for various human rights abuses, including spying on their own people.
The fact that the US government has been doing the exact same thing in secret, is both completely lacking in integrity, and about as hypocritical as you can get.
I'm sure there was at least a little bit of "I'll get this hypocritical bastards!" in Snowden's mind when he released this information, and I wouldn't blame him. But that's why releasing information on China's abuses is irrelevant at this point.
"City hall" in German is "Rathaus" Kinda explains a few things......
Mexicans don't understand the the world beyond US, they are too close and too economically dependent to see there is something else.
Let me tell you something... I have been in Canada. I'm Mexican. In both paces US news are covered to an extent far beyond that any other country covers US and/or a neighbour nation. Both countries even follow US sports leagues as if they were local. How do you explain that?
France initial response to the NSA allegations was to take down Evo Morales plane.
From my point of view, US can't be trusted. It has too much information, the policies are little enforced and these leaks seem to happen very frequently. So what happens when this sort of information is silently leaked to corporations or to the enemy? Or how is it regulated to which friends the US can exchanges this information?
And then when they are caught, they decide to act like nothing happened, and expect everybody else to pretend this is the way things should be on the world. And when Dilma doesn't like Obama reading her email, and even proposes to do something to avoid it, you say she can't look beyond Latin America?
I expect this sort of event to make Latin America rethink in which terms they want to cooperate with US. If it's convenient to have US bases in our soil or to which extent we want to be US allies.
I am guessing that if you would read any Chinese or Russian newspapers, they would all agree that their respective countries rock, the other countries suck and are engaging in illegal, unfair, and immoral spying and competition. It has been my observation that everyone no matter where they live in think their country / sports team / religion they grew up in is really the best, and all others somehow are deluded. It is very fortunate that everyone on the planet happens to be living in the best country / religious denomination / have the best most righteous sports team in the world.
What is unussual is that a country would say, you know what "we really do suck dicks." This seems to be happening in the USA, where people are openly supporting other countries and rooting for their respective presidents (e.g. Putin). Sure there is a lot of criticism to be waged at the USA, but if you are a U.S.ian you should be waging it internally (e.g. our children need to study harder so they can compete against the Chinese); Not 'wow. We need to let more Mexicans into the country because they are poor, and the USA already has too much.' Also saying that President Putin really supports conservative values, so I like him better than Presiden Obama really kills me. Are you a USian, or do you support anything that will put the Democratic party look bad, even if that means supporting a foreighn power.
Note, if you are not form the USA, feel free to be as partisan as you can be. I know I am. It is the sprit of competition that betters humanity. It is just the USA does not compete anymore either politically, scientifically, or economically. We do have a lot of politicians who seem to have summer homes in Dubai, and are getting rich from investing overseas though. If we could only replace these politicians and all the reporters with illegal immigrants, I think things would be a lot better. At least Mexicans support their country.
That my mom and dad don't encrypt their email, fine. But when you are a president of a country and using your email for presidential things, why don't you use encryption?
What has NSA _not_ done?
Anything thinkable and unthinkable they have done, continue doing, will do and have or will get the capability to do.
http://www.thensavideo.com/.
Snowden has revealed US spying against China. He has not revealed spying done by China. Why?
Uuuhh...maybe because China's spying is of little to no concern to him?
More Mexicans have been killed in the current drug war/narco-insurgency than there were Americans killed in Vietnam. Do you think the US might reasonably want to keep an eye on that, especially since the violence bleeds over the border, US-Mexican border areas are dangerous on the US side, and drugs are flooding over the border?
Ok...and how much intel from drug gangs trying to get drugs into the US over the border do you think they're going to get from the Mexican president's personal email? Pretty much squat? Yeah...that's what I thought.
You might also want to consider the many countries in Europe that are both friendly to the US, and harbor Islamic extremists with ties to terrorism. The ringleader of the 9/11 hijackers came from living in Germany, for example.
That's the problem with freedom. People sometimes use it to do nasty things. However, the solution to this isn't to monitor everyone to prevent the nasty things. It's to create a society that, on the whole, people don't want to do nasty things to, and if some whackjob does anyway, find them and prosecute them if they're still alive.
Monitoring everybody just because you can falls firmly on the side of making a society that people do, in fact, want to do nasty things to.
I think you need rethink your ideas on this.
"City hall" in German is "Rathaus" Kinda explains a few things......
Mexicans in general aren't, but politicians in general, are.
You can never know everything, and part of what you do know will always be wrong. Perhaps even the most important part.
If you think it's unusual for a small country to follow it's large neighbors closely you clearly haven't spent much time in Europe. Scandinavia and the Finns pay an inordinate amount of attention to Germany and Russia. Portugal pays a lot of attention to Spain, and Portugal isn't that much smaller then Spain. The Irish are renowned for their ability to denigrate anything English, while being more English then the goddamned English.
You're missing key points of the French timeline. While Snowden was still in HK they played the part of the wronged party. Then, on July 4th, Le Monde pointed out they were as bad as the US. The Morales incident didn't happen until the 5th.
As for Rousseff, I'm not knocking for encrypting her email. I'm knocking her for acting surprised that she needed to. Brazil is not some little country everyone ignores anymore. It's a real country, which actually tries to have influence in the world, which means that the people it's trying to influence have a damn good reason to spy on it.
As for spying on governments, it doesn't matter whether you think the US should have this info. It doesn't matter whether you think the Russian/Chinese/French/etc. should have this info. We will all hack your computers to get it. Your responses should be a) implement good security at all times, not just because somebody's having a spy-scandal, b) have spys/hacks of your own so you have some idea of what's compromised, and c) have a couple convincing-sounding offended speeches ready for when somebody gets caught spying on your ass because the hoi polloi don't understand spying is the default. You can bring morality into this conversation if you want, all you'll do is convince everyone that you are a) lying to cover up your extensive spy networks, or b) are an idiot. There is no c) nice Mexican boy goes to UN and abolishes spying.
As for the other NSA stuff, keep in mind that the entire point of the NSA is to spy on non-Americans. That is why it exists. I'd agree it would be very nice if they were more discriminating in their targets, but their job is not to be fair to Brazilians. That's what Brazilians have a government for. The NSA's job is to protect Americans. You can disagree with that purpose all you want, until your current country becomes a state nobody who can stop it will care.
As for bases in Latin countries, there are two. GitMo and a recent one in Brazil. If the Brazilians throw us out that won't be a tragedy for us, because we still have the Brits and the Brits own Ascension and the Falklands. If it's a choice between giving up SigInt on people who want to kill us and moving troops to the Falklands we will make that choice seven days a week and twice on Sunday. Technically this would anger one of our two allies in Latin America (Argentina would be pissed, Columbia wouldn't), but we only allied with Argentina to ensure they wouldn't attack the Falklands again, and they'd be suicidal to attack a US Base, so that wouldn't matter either.
That's actually the problem with electing anti-American Presidents who ally with the Cubans and Venezuelans. Since we'll never get cooperation from them anyway, there's no reason not to be mean to their people.
Who will be next ?
America is fast losing friends if this trend is continuing.
Not that long ago, Russians, Chinese, Cubans, Iranians, North Koreans were painted as EVIL because America said so ~ and the world (mainly Europeans, plus many third world countries) generally subscribe to that view because the United States of America supposed to be trustworthy
Is America anymore trustworthy than the Russians, Chinese, Cubans, Iranians, or North Koreans ?
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
Keep in mind that they have plenty of euphemisms they use to describe oppression. The Russians, for example, probably won't cop to being spying human rights-violating bastards. But Russia's Russianness from evil illegal immigrants? Perhaps having "strong leadership,?" Or preventing hooliganism? They will also fail to condemn private lynch mobs against enemies of Putin.
The Chinese have a rich tradition of Communist euphemisms to borrow from.
Analytical, anti-hypocritical types do tend to hate hypocrites.
A reason I get really annoyed at the anti-NSA stuff is that I think it's hypocritical for people to go on a fourth Amendment kick to protect their internet toys, while their Mayor engages in stop-and-frisk. And instead of /. and the EFF giving equal time to stop-and-frisk, they give it no time and then downvote you when you bring it up in the middle of a debate on the NSA.
I put up with official US hypocrisy because it's the least hypocritical government that actually tries to help people all over the world. The others are either pure Realpolitik (France, Russia, China, etc.), or decree that both sides are evil so all civilized nations should stay out. Yes sometimes we fuck up, but it tries; and (unlike most countries) when it succeeds great things happen. For example, prior to our involvement in Korea that country was poorer then any country in Africa.
Your heart is true, you're a pal and a cosmonaut.
You idiot! Everybody knows it's consonant!
I guess that's why he's keen on embarrassing the US rather than say Russia or China.
Well, since he worked for the USA and didn't work for Russa or China, I'd imagine the number of insider documents he has about the intelligence services of Russia and China is zero.
"But why doesn't Jeff Bezos talk about Google's operations, hmm? Why is it always Amazon that he wants us to think about? What is it that he has to hide? He's obviously a Google double agent, isn't he?"
You are not a brain: http://books.google.com/books?id=2oV61CeDx-YC
Because you can't target certain people, religions, or cultures. And how do you know who is a citizen or not by their phone number? And you don't know who someone has called who called someone else when you do capture one of them trying to do something.
The whole concept is to prevent an organized attack on multiple targets. What if there was a large group of 200 terrorists that were going to attack shopping malls across the country in random locations and a few days or weeks apart. Maybe even years apart. It would bring down the economy and shut down a lot of malls.
This is what the NSA response should have been:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5j2F4VcBmeo
Surely this (and all the other NSA spying) must have broken international law? Its there anything happening at that level (or is it occuring and our media isnt keeping us informed)?
The call metadata is already being captured and saved by your phone vendor. Your favorite search engines and websites already have access to your web history. And the government really does not need any of these sources of information to find me. They already have my Tax records, job history, property ownership since deeds are registered, and even my drivers license. And they have had this data since way before the Internet even existed. And I seriously doubt the government has the time and labor resources needed to do anything other than store the information. Even with sophisticated key word filters will return millions of records to be further examined. Any data captured would not be of any use in stopping someone intent on causing mischief. Any data captured in foreign countries by the intelligence services is fair game. This is where Snowden went from whistleblower to someone who deserves to be charged under the Espionage Act. He has went so far as thinking he knows what information is harmful and which is not all by him self. That level of arrogance is astounding. He might have been able to strike a deal with the US government if he only released information dealing with internal actions of the government. He had a lot of leverage with all the foreign data he stole. He could have negotiated a deal that included no jail time by offering to return all the foreign related data. That is certainly off the table now. He better hope the US doesn't gain custody of anyone wanted by the Russian government because the US and Russia have a long history of exchanging people wanted by either nation.
Yes, yes, we get it: you're ignorant.
"Shut the fuck up, two-million ID boy", thought by everyone who remembers when Slashdot was still relevant and not swarming with fuckwits.
Huh, must've been before my time!
Ahh - My eye!
The doctor said I'm not supposed to get Slashdot in it!
Meeheko PISSED!
| Snowden also insisted he was able to protect the documents from China’s spy services because he was familiar with that country's intelligence capabilities through his work as an NSA contractor.
Correction. He was familiar with what the NSA had believed to be Chinese intelligence capabilities. That's not the same thing.
BTW, of course the Russians and Chinese are engaging in at least as much and as intrusive espionage, at most limited only by budget.
"Where are any documents about Chinese or Russian intelligence activities?"
Snowden wasn't interested in having polonium-flavored green tea.
He knows that the US Government will make his life miserable, but he will still have it. The idea that "He's so famous once he goes public, he can't be assassinated" only works with some governments. Trotsky was extremely famous, and look what happened.
I heard this directly from a significant security researcher & company founder: it's not illegal for Russians to hack non-Russian banks.
The cowboys at NSA should be reined in as they are single handedly doing more damage to USA defence and future stability than ALL the talibans combined as it is clear as hell that the have no clue to the CONSEQUENCES of provoking more and more anti US sentiment EVERY WHERE.
The thing is Taco Bell has tried to establish itself in Mexico and the ones I knew packed and went home. It seems the Taco Bell menu is not liked by the Mexican population.
don't worry, the US doesn't need help to embarrass themselves.
Mexico is several times the size of the U.S. both in area and population. It has a vast nuclear arsenal, which it has used in the past and threatened to use again. Its "drug war" has turned our border cities into war zones. Its spying programs monitor every form of communication anywhere in the world. It has military bases in hundreds of other countries and is engaged in ongoing military operations in at least a dozen of them (that we know of). Truly Mexico is a menace not only to us but to the entire world, and we are completely justified in spying on them . . . . oh, wait . . .
Nonaggression works!
Snowden has revealed US spying against China. He has not revealed spying done by China. Why?
Trivial - he did not know about any specific Chinese spying.
You see, Snowden worked for an American spy outfit, called the NSA. He then revealed what they were doing. So obviously, all he could possibly reveal was what the NSA is up to. And maybe some of their results.
To reveal Chinese spying, you have to get a decent position inside some Chinese spy organization. To even get there, you probably have to be Chinese, which Snowden is not.
I'm from northern ireland. Gods own shithole.
Indeed. The Spainiards and Portguese are silly if the expect to use Anglosaxon electronics/software in a secure manner. Get off your ass hombre, and build your indigenous computer and software. Don't use any anglo stuff, not even gcc, as the C language itself is a big-time security issue in all real programs out there.
I don't know where do you get your info but you're wrong about Portugal. I'm Portuguese and I can tell you we give so much attention to Spain as we do to England, U.S. or Belgium (for the EU politics).
The US Gov't would like to think this, but in truth it will cause damage, just not immediately.
As more and more U.S. invasiveness in media and communications is seen, countries and non-domestic corps are slowly moving away from related U.S. products. Over time, this will cost money to the U.S. economy.
I'm not arguing you're all wanabe Spaniards, crying yourselves to sleep because Juan Carlos I only speaks Spanish on your radios. I'm arguing that you pay way more attention to Spain then similarly-sized countries because it's within a two-hour drive of the entirety of continental Portugal. A lot Portuguese people probably work on the other side of the border. A lot of Spanish people probably work in Portugal. If you're Portuguese and Lisbon is too damn small you're a lot more likely to choose Madrid then Detroit or Toronto even tho they are all the same size. Given that both countries are trying to deal with a collapse in their finance markets AND austerity at the same time you guys would be foolish not to pay very close attention to what the Spanish are doing, because if one of your countries can magic it's way out of this the other one can too.
Objectively speaking Spain is roughly as important as Canada or Poland. The UK is twice it's population, much richer, has a much more potent military, has a veto on the Security Council, etc. That's not a knock on any of there countries, it's simply a fact that the UK is a lot more important then Spain. But according to you Portuguese people pay the same amount of attention to both.
Are you telling me that Mexicans are not enthralled by a corporate bottom-of-the-barrel parody of their cuisine? Shocking!
I am guessing that if you would read any Chinese or Russian newspapers, they would all agree that their respective countries rock, the other countries suck and are engaging in illegal, unfair, and immoral spying and competition.
That depends on what newspapers you read. In Russia, for example, there are still a few non-government-owned/controlled mass media outlets that are openly critical about the government and the country, such as e.g. Novaya Gazeta.
It has been my observation that everyone no matter where they live in think their country / sports team / religion they grew up in is really the best, and all others somehow are deluded.
Again, this is certainly not the case in Russia.
What is unussual is that a country would say, you know what "we really do suck dicks." This seems to be happening in the USA, where people are openly supporting other countries and rooting for their respective presidents (e.g. Putin). Sure there is a lot of criticism to be waged at the USA, but if you are a U.S.ian you should be waging it internally (e.g. our children need to study harder so they can compete against the Chinese)
There is a big difference between a "country" (i.e. its govt) saying something, and its citizens saying something. As a Russian, I can assure you that there are plenty of foreign leaders whom I respect more than Putin. And I'm not going to wage my criticism of my "country" internally, especially since a lot of issues are not just internal in nature - e.g. I believe that Russia should ditch this whole "we go our own way" bullshit and start properly aligning with Europe and the West, so of course I'm going to call out to other Europeans to put pressure on my government to do just that, and criticize our officials when they talk BS about Europe or make dumb laws aimed at foreign citizens and governments like Dima Yakovlev Law.
Once again, you should get your facts straight, things are not true just because you write them out.
Despite the attempt to provoque the Portuguese people - which made me laugh and completely unveiled your character or lack of it - I'll tell you, as a courtesy, that there are more Portuguese in Paris than in Madrid and London.
What's you fantastic theory now? France is bigger than UK? French people eat baguettes? Please stop poisoning other people minds, at least have the decency to add "I assume that..." or "I think that", not take any information for a fact just because your illuminated mind thought of them.
If you think that was an attempt at provocation then you might want to learn that lesson on speaking without information yourself. If I wanted to provoke you'd I'd probably be referring to Portuguese as a dialect of Spanish you silly person you.
And, for the record, France is slightly bigger then the UK. It's also closer.
Which means that you're still proving my case: nations that are near each-other physically have closer relationships then their respective sizes would imply.
Oh, now it's the fact of being closer? With that kind of logic Madrid should have more Portuguese and it don't. There goes some crap logic of yours, as usual.
As for the Portuguese language, I'll give you another free information so you can learn a little more before infesting other people minds with wrong information: Portuguese language is not a Spanish dialect nor derive from it. Both languages come from the same source "Latin". Not like English that many words and literature influence come from old French, who'd say that!
I'm someone who likes to talk, discuss things, learn and teach something. Since I can not do neither of these with you, this will be my last response. Brat.
It would be really nice if you'd actually read what I said. I didn't say Portuguese was a dialect of Spanish. I said that if I wanted to provoke you off I'd say it was. Like every other argument I've made on this thread, you promptly proved that one right.
It seems like you don't want to debate, you want to be provoked, and if that's the case just say so. I have some really good insults left over from when I was 8. Nine-year-olds are too mature to tell yo-mamma jokes.
Let's repeat the statement that started this for the record:
"If you think it's unusual for a small country to follow it's large neighbors closely you clearly haven't spent much time in Europe. Scandinavia and the Finns pay an inordinate amount of attention to Germany and Russia. Portugal pays a lot of attention to Spain, and Portugal isn't that much smaller then Spain..."
Read that closely. It says that due to Portugal's proximity to Spain Portugal will have stronger ties to Spain then it would otherwise. Are you seriously arguing that if Portugal was located in the South Pacific it would have as tight a relationship with Spain as it does?
Stop-and-frisk has been discussed here at least a few, if not several times.
I'm not from the USA, and I think partisan politics, US or otherwise, are the biggest piece of shit blocking progress in the world that we have.
They're all assholes. It's just a matter of figuring out who's the smallest asshole, and getting them to run things. Unfortunately, this is a lot easier said than done....
"City hall" in German is "Rathaus" Kinda explains a few things......