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Spacesuit Problems Delay ISS Repair Spacewalk
Ars Technica reports that the next planned spacewalk in the continuing repairs of the International Space Station's ammonia pump has been delayed, because of problems with the spacesuit worn by astronaut Rick Mastracchio. From the article: "According to Deutsche Welle, the problem is with how the sublimator (a cooling unit) in Mastracchio's suit operated when entering ISS airlock. NASA said the question is whether water entered the sublimator at that time. 'During repressurization of the station's airlock following the spacewalk, a spacesuit configuration issue put the suit Mastracchio was wearing in question for the next excursion,' NASA said in a statement. Delaying the next steps of the valve replacement from Monday until Tuesday will give NASA time to address the issue. Mastracchio is scheduled to wear a backup suit and needs this time to have it resized."
Pop divas have 'em and NASA astronauts have 'em. The difference is that after such an incident in outer space, the astronauts start worrying about not being cool enough, but with the entertainment chicks that type of worry generally precedes the accident.
It should also be cheaper, lighter, shoot industrial-level laser from the eyes and include a lightsaber. Stupid scientists can't do anything right. If only they read /. once in a while they might learn something!
They should have built simpler, more reliable suits.
I wonder if it would be cheaper to retool the suits, or to select crews of suitably similar size and body type?
I don't doubt that the current hardware has some legacy decisions that NASA would like to rethink, or at least replace with current iterations that are smaller and more reliable; but it's not as though they added complexity for the fun of it the first time around. Keeping things within safe, never mind comfortable, parameters in a vacuum isn't trivial.
http://science.slashdot.org/story/13/12/16/1524243/nasa-testing-lighter-space-suits-for-asteroid-work
Not very bright, are you? They are looking into better suits now, Slashdot is irrelevant.
Learn to love Alaska
These suits are meant to keep the wearer alive and somewhat comfortable in some rather extreme conditions - zero g, zero pressure, exposure to radiation temperatures ranging from 4 K to several hundred K. They are encountering some issues with control of the water cooling system, and perhaps some condensation. They need to be understood and dealt with, but all in all they are the nature of the beast.
HA HA - CAPTCHA is "earthly"
Oh FFS. Let's see: the whole human race doesn't have 10,000 hours of EVA activity logged, but we've been sailing on the ocean since before recorded history. Yet somehow, somehow, there's still things to be learned about designing, building and sailing better sailboats. Ask any America's Cup team. NASA has eventualities even most good engineers would never dream of already planned for, printed up, and sitting in a binder, waiting for that 1 in 1,000,000,000 Bad Thing (tm) to happen. But /tards will always be there to say "derp, they should have done that, and done it cheaper, after all, my tax dollars <chest thump> droooolll...".
select crews of suitably similar size and body type
They do this already. You don't see any astrocosmonauts who are missing an arm or a leg. They used to select only the body type that includes a penis, but sexists decided that some kinds of discrimination are more acceptable than others.
Someone has to be working on gelfields. Don't make invent it myself, lazy bastards.
Isn't the life support part of the suit in the backpack? Why can't they just unbolt that to replace and keep the rest of the suit intact?
The Sartorial Tragedy! We must send a tuxedo.
They shouldn't even put people into LEO for the kind of simplistic "science" they do...
It's not like when you get a flat tire. You don't have an international space program assisting you remotely. So, while they're sorting the suit issue, can the folks at mission control go get some lunch or-- Hey, why don't they just call us once this suit thing is worked out, then we'll schedule another try again later?
Think of it as a scrubbed launch, but with an astronaut instead of a rocket.
That's not a replacement for the suits in question.
NASA has multiple space suits, but the two main ones are the suits they were for launch and re-entry, and the suits they wear for EVA.
The suits in your link refers to a replacement for the former, not the later.
"to have it resized." by whom?
They also don't send fat retards into space but you are allowed to post here instead.
Slashdotters are clever and generally well informed, but this is way out of your league.
I'm trying to moderate today but the fact is that none of you know anything about space suits.
Consider yourselves modded down one point.
For many years, many well trained people have devoted time, energy and tons of money to devise a better space suit. It's hard to imagine even a very clever reader here having anything worth contributing to the issue. Please move on to a story where your comments will be competent.
...omphaloskepsis often...
All right!! There's a place in the universe for fat retards: Earth!
They should have built simpler, more reliable suits.
Or something.
Man, our suit tech is complete shit. We're not even really at level 1 yet, and we should be at least level 3 by now.
Seriously, our build sucks major ass. Gonna get owned like a buncha fucking newfags, that's right bitchezzzzzzz
They have complained themselves about their own suits many times. But they don't devote funds to it, because it isn't "sexy" like a planet landing. NASA knows there's a problem and deliberately chooses to not fix it. And it's *my* fault for pointing it out? You are the drooling idiot.
Learn to love Alaska
A tethered suit (like the early diving suits) would fix any problem with a life-support system. Why not have a tethered backup for suits?
Learn to love Alaska
http://www.spaceflight101.com/iss-expedition-38-us-eva-25-updates.html
Why not have a tethered backup for suits?
Same reason laptops don't have a permanently tethered backup for the battery.
systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
I couldn't find any flow-rate figures, so I don't know how much of a pain this would be; but the the tether would have to include delivery and return for oxygen (fewer tubes if you just let the used air vent into space; but resupply missions aren't cheap so you'd probably have to send it back to the mothership), delivery and return for the thermal regulation fluid (since the astronaut has neither convection nor conduction to work with, he'll mostly need cooling; but may need additional heat at some point), and then electrical and communications lines.
That probably ends up being a fair-size chunk of cable, especially if you want to send somebody to the further reaches of the ISS, with a bunch of pumps and regulators and things presenting the same reliability issues, just fixed inside the cabin.
I see that they've left at least one of the people with a chip on their shoulder on earth. It was a perfectly serious question: it's not as though the world is burning through astronauts at a terrifying rate, so you can presumably afford to be fairly picky. Why not send them up in batches well, um, suited, to be able to share any piece of expensive, finicky, hardware that might need a spare pulled out at the last minute?
They should have built simpler, more reliable suits.
They are looking into better suits now
Tense mismatch.
systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
Of course! It's so simple! Man, they'll be kicking themselves at NASA when they read this.
They should have built a simpler, more reliable cooling unit too.
Oh, also, a cheaper, safer rocket to get them up there in the first place.
Anything else you want to ask Santa for?
systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
A tethered suit (like the early diving suits) would fix any problem with a life-support system.
Really? Any problem?
systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
Consider how often, in book and film and TV, our heroes just "suit up and go for a walk". No big deal, just get dressed. From Robert Heinlein's scenes of combat suited soldiers preparing for a drop in "Starship Troopers", more like cleaning their wiper blades than tuning up their car; Space Hulk terminator armor through lots of movies since, suits aren't much more inconvenient, and mecha - hah! just hop in the chair, click on the four-points, and drive away.
Yet in real life we have seen that even enclosed pilot flight gear needs more complexity, and the balloon jump within the atmosphere wasn't exactly simple. The comfort we normal passengers experience on an airplane, with shirtsleeve environment and acceptable noise level, shows just how much detail has been considered by others - and the fact that we ride in calm equanimity shows how little we consider those 1 in a million events like a rock being in the way.
They should have built simpler, more reliable suits.
They are looking into better suits now
Tense mismatch.
Who could win? It's anyone's guess. You could cut the air in here with a knife, folks!
It's a tradeoff, I suppose. It's so expensive to put people up there that it does make sense to put considerable effort into selecting the best people and training them well. So, it's just a question of what makes one person "better" for the job than another. If you have to move down to 15th place in the astronaut school evaluations to find someone with the right size, are you better off than going with 1st place and building adjustable suits? I don't know, maybe, maybe not.
Maybe #15 can do the job just as well as #1 and you get to enjoy the benefits of improved spacesuit reliability from using a fixed size. Maybe #15 is three times as likely as #1 to make a mistake up there when something unexpected happens and being able to have him up there is worth the tradeoff to make adjustable suits. I guess NASA decided the adjustable suits were the way to go, and there aren't many who know enough about astronauteering (I certainly don't) to second guess them.
Why not have a tethered backup for suits?
Same reason laptops don't have a permanently tethered backup for the battery.
Oh, that makes sense. It's because they're trying to go further out in the space suit than a tether could be made to reach.
Why is there no remote manipulator robot to do this? Is the goal here to test space suits or maintain a space station?
The space station should have the most advanced remote manipulator system available. Deep-sea work is not done by guys in complex suits, it is done by remotely controlled manipulator robots. The continued dependence on space suits for basic construction/repair/maintenence operation just seems like a bad idea given current remote maniplulation technology.
Oh, I'd certainly suspect that NASA knows much more about astronautology than I do; but given that the world demand for astronauts is, what, a couple dozen at any one time, with relatively low death rates? It seemed within the bounds of reason to wonder about the question.
Were we to try venturing further afield, I'd imagine that (much as some people would hate it) the biological aspect of choosing the right human for the job would grow in importance. If you fancied a hop to mars, say, the differences in metabolic requirements among people of various sizes and builds would become a much bigger deal.
Yes. Any problem with the man-carried life support system. However, if you expand the "life support system" to include unrelated items, like the suit itself, then no. If a meteor strikes the astronaut, vaporizing him and the suit, then life support would fail, regardless of the life support system used. I'm sure your counter-example was as likely and relevant as that, or you'd have stated it, rather than insinuating it.
Learn to love Alaska
When we were too dumb to understand SCUBA, we had tethered diving suits working in similar conditions with 100+ year old technology. I can't imagine we couldn't fix those problems now, when we solved them once before, with greater limitations.
Learn to love Alaska
Who said anything about your strawman of "permanent". I can run my laptop on life-support, but if my battery is failing, I can pull it out and tether it permanently, if I wish. The existing life support is a man-carried system with connections to the suit. The connections are designed to be removable/replaceable. Plugging them into a ship-mounted support system would be trivial. Battery when it works, tether when it doesn't. That's what laptops do, and no reason to not do that with suits, other than your incorrect assertion that if you build a system for a tether, it must be attached at all times.
Learn to love Alaska
You would be surprised at how much changes in the vacuum environment in an orbit around a star. Suddenly the whole tether needs to be insulated, lest whatever working fluid you carry freezes in the shadow or boils in the sunlight. The insulation needs to survive flexing in those temperature extremes. Earthbound liquid ocean environment is quite thermally benign - it is all within the confines of liquid salty water. Almost none of the non-metallic materials used in this 100+ year old pre-SCUBA technology would withstand the environment of space for any usable length of time.
A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
Yes. Any problem with the man-carried life support system.
Unless the problem kills you before you can get yourself tethered (because as you've stated in another post, you weren't envisaging a permanent tether).
Actually, my example was going to be the flooding of a helmet, as occurred recently. How would your tether solve that?
systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
Who said anything about your strawman of "permanent".
It's not a very good back up if you have a catastrophic failure of your life support system and don't have time to plug in.
Plugging them into a ship-mounted support system would be trivial.
Trivial? You want to mount ports all around the station - you'll need them reachable in a reasonable amount of time, after all - all of which will require regular maintenance and checks (you don't want a port venting air or water unexpectedly), and you're introducing more complexity to the suits (which you were arguing to be made more simple).
systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
Then you design it with a quick-attachment, if that's the requirement. Or a slow-attachment would be fine for the specific issues in this case.
Learn to love Alaska
I don't have sufficient details on the flooding helmet. Flow the water into the return hose, clearing the helmet. Why are you asking such details. You obviously don't care what my answer is, you don't like the idea. So why keep complaining?
Learn to love Alaska
I don't have sufficient details on the flooding helmet.
Then why do you sound like you think you're an authority on spacesuit and life support system design?
Why are you asking such details. You obviously don't care what my answer is, you don't like the idea. So why keep complaining?
Because I'm trying to demonstrate that "asking such details" is exactly the sort of thing that is required in this situation, and that you seem to think your solution is the obvious one without considering such details.
systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
How will a quick attachment make any difference to my point? You'd need multiple ports installed around the station and you'd be adding complexity - not to mention holes - to what you've already said is an overly-complicated spacesuit.
systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
Then why do you sound like you think you're an authority on spacesuit and life support system design?
I'm a certified SCUBA trainer, which does make me an expert of sorts on life support.
Because I'm trying to demonstrate that "asking such details" is exactly the sort of thing that is required in this situation, and that you seem to think your solution is the obvious one without considering such details.
Yes, because if I can't solve it for every possible situation you come up with, then the general premise must be false. Or the nay-sayer is more persistent than the person who suggests a correct course of action, but the suggester isn't as emotionally tied to fighting everything. NASA has publicly announced that they are looking for new suits because of limitations in the current ones. If I agree with NASA, I'm an idiot. If I make suggestions of other similar tech, I'm an idiot, because life support in a hostile environment is completely unrelated to life support in a hostile environment.
Learn to love Alaska
What is the use case you are designing for? You don't seem to be trying to make it work, then showing short-comings, but instead trying to make it not work, and demonstrating your limited intelligence and problem solving. But, since you are just here for the argument, and not a discussion on suits, life support, or spacewalks...
Learn to love Alaska
Yes, because if I can't solve it for every possible situation you come up with, then the general premise must be false.
I didn't come up with it; it actually happened! Ensuring that problems that have previously occurred don't happen again or have less severe effects would seem to be a good place to start when looking to improve things.
Or the nay-sayer is more persistent than the person who suggests a correct course of action
You've suggested a course of action. You said it would solve any problem with the life-support system (and you've again just implied it to be "correct"). I gave an example of a real problem that recently occurred and asked how your solution would have solved it, and you dismissed it as a mere "detail."
NASA has publicly announced that they are looking for new suits because of limitations in the current ones.
Yes, and you're demonstrating why they didn't start their research by posting a question under Ask Slashdot.
If I agree with NASA, I'm an idiot.
No, if you declare your idea to be the correct solution without even considering a recent incident (or, for that matter, not being a NASA spacesuit engineer), you look a bit pompous. Same goes when you contradict yourself:
1. They should have built simpler ... suits.
2. A tethered suit (like the early diving suits) would fix any problem with a life-support system. Why not have a tethered backup for suits?
systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
What is the use case you are designing for?
You say tethers would solve any problem with life-support, so you tell me.
You don't seem to be trying to make it work, then showing short-comings, but instead trying to make it not work, and demonstrating your limited intelligence and problem solving.
Should be pretty easy to convince me otherwise, then, shouldn't it?
But, since you are just here for the argument, and not a discussion on suits, life support, or spacewalks...
But, since you aren't willing to defend your ideas or resolve the contradiction between your suggestion to build a spacesuit that is both simplermore complex at the same time...
systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
So a suit with no life support is more complex than one with CO2 scrubbers, O2, and other functions in a large attachment?
Why did we have tethered diving long before SCUBA? I'll give you a hint. on-board life support is more complex than tethered systems.
Learn to love Alaska
So a suit with no life support is more complex than one with CO2 scrubbers, O2, and other functions in a large attachment?
Since when are we talking about suits with no life support? You said "Why not have a tethered backup for suits?" I assumed (quite reasonably, I'd maintain) that you meant as a backup to the suit's built-in life support.
Are you now talking about a permanent tether with no onboard system?
Why did we have tethered diving long before SCUBA? I'll give you a hint. on-board life support is more complex than tethered systems.
Then why is everyone using SCUBA these days instead of tethers?
systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
Then why is everyone using SCUBA these days instead of tethers?
They aren't. And even if they were, it is mainly for operational constraints that don't apply in space. If your SCUBA fails completely, you most likely will survive it. Complete loss of life support in recreational diving is easily survivable. If the support pack fell off an astronaut, how survivable is that?
Learn to love Alaska