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Grand Canyon Is "Frankenstein" of Geologic Formations

sciencehabit writes "It's a debate that has vexed scientists for decades: Is the Grand Canyon young or old, geologically speaking? Both, a new study declares. A group of scientists reports that the famed formation is a hybrid of five different gorges of various ages--two of three middle segments formed between 70 million and 50 million years ago and between 25 million and 15 million years ago, but the two end segments were carved in the past 5 million to 6 million years--and the Colorado River only tied them into a single continuous canyon 5 million or 6 million years ago."

132 comments

  1. That's not what Frankenstein means by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    You have no idea what Frankenstein means, do you? Try reading it sometime. Here's a hint: start by reading the subtitle.

    1. Re: That's not what Frankenstein means by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wrong. YOU are the one name calling. Have you actually READ the book? 'Frankenstein' is the doctor... not the monster.

    2. Re:That's not what Frankenstein means by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      According to your faulty allusion, because it is a conglomeration of articles on different subjects posted at different times, Slashdot is Frankenstein, idiot.

    3. Re:That's not what Frankenstein means by gerardrj · · Score: 1

      No, Slashdot is Frankenstein's monster.

      --
      Article X: The powers not delegated... by the Constitution...are reserved...to the people
    4. Re:That's not what Frankenstein means by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Slashdot abandoned by its creator, runs amok. Won't somebody stop Slashdot before it kills again. News at 11.

    5. Re: That's not what Frankenstein means by hey! · · Score: 4, Informative

      Well I *have* read the book and actually Viktor Frankenstein was *not* a doctor. He's an undergraduate *student* of natural philosophy who gets sidetracked into occult studies. He only became a doctor in the movies, which give the whole affair an anti-science spin, probably to cash in on peoples discomfort with anatomical research. The book is much less clear on exactly how Frankenstein constructs his monster, but it implies alchemy or other discredited pseudoscience is involved.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    6. Re: That's not what Frankenstein means by SuricouRaven · · Score: 4, Informative

      It doesn't really imply that. It does say that Frankenstein spent many years of his life devoted to occult studies in his desire to gain control over life and death - but also that he rejected that field after coming to the conclusion that it was all a load of worthless nonsense, and that he greatly regretted the time spent persuing what was not only a dead end but one that, in hindsight, should have been obvious as such. As soon as he realises that he turns towards medicine, recognising that even though this field makes far less grand promises it is able to make good on them. The book doesn't say exactly how he did it, but suggests that it was through entirely physical means - in particular it states that Frankenstein deliberately picked out the most oversized corpses and organs to work with, because the delicate surgical techniques would have posed much more difficulty had he been working with smaller components. That's why the monster created was so large and powerful.

    7. Re:That's not what Frankenstein means by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      they mean that the canyon is a professor(or doctor, forgot).

      the actual monster patched up from bodies is called igor or some shit like that.

    8. Re: That's not what Frankenstein means by Argos · · Score: 1

      Old joke: the monster and the doctor were relatives?

    9. Re: That's not what Frankenstein means by Argos · · Score: 1

      True! The Frankestain monster is, actually (:-)), a zombie.

    10. Re: That's not what Frankenstein means by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 2

      Technically you are correct, however just like a hacker is someone who breaks into computers circa 2014 (still not true) Frankenstein has been the name of his monster for far longer. It turns out that if you get enough morons together they will gather together and carry torches if you point out how phenomenally under-educated and ludicrous they are.

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    11. Re: That's not what Frankenstein means by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

      "It doesn't really imply that"

      You don't really understand the English language. The OP inferred it, ergo it was implied (intentionally, or not)

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    12. Re:That's not what Frankenstein means by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

      Bad example. Frankenstein caused far less damage.

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    13. Re: That's not what Frankenstein means by khallow · · Score: 1

      You can infer things that aren't implied. The previous poster explained why he thought the inference wasn't based on an implication.

    14. Re: That's not what Frankenstein means by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 0

      But can you stop being a moron? Apologies: you aren't smart enough to answer the question: You're not.

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    15. Re: That's not what Frankenstein means by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Was the creature actually the monster? Seems he was the far more humane and intelligent of the two.

      I claim Frankenstein was the monster, but his creation is the one called it.

    16. Re: That's not what Frankenstein means by cusco · · Score: 1

      Not really, a zombie is an undead human (well, a real zombie never actually died, just sustained extreme brain damage from being poisoned, paralyzed and from oxygen deprivation while buried alive), Frankenstein's monster was created from a collection of dead body parts. I think there's some more nits over here to pick . . .

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
    17. Re: That's not what Frankenstein means by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It's pronounced "Fronkensteen".

    18. Re: That's not what Frankenstein means by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He is a student in the book. What does that have to do with it?

    19. Re: That's not what Frankenstein means by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, I have read the book, but apparently you haven't. Frankenstein is a student in the book, not a doctor. Regardless, the word Frankenstein has become synonymous with someone cobbled together with disparaging parts.

    20. Re: That's not what Frankenstein means by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sorry, "something" not "someone."

    21. Re:That's not what Frankenstein means by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What? In the book, Frankenstein is neither a professor nor a doctor. He is a medical student. The monster in the book is NOT named "Igor." Igor was a person in one of the Universal Frankenstein movies, who manipulated the monster for his own ends.

    22. Re: That's not what Frankenstein means by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's the movies. In voodoo, a zombie is simply a person without a soul (for whatever reason).

    23. Re: That's not what Frankenstein means by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      See as how Frankenstein wasn't a doctor, the OP is the one who is "phenomenally under-educated." So, technically he isn't correct. Besides, the point is not whether Frankenstein is the man or the monster. The name is used colloquially to mean something made from disparate parts.

    24. Re: That's not what Frankenstein means by swillden · · Score: 1

      "It doesn't really imply that"

      You don't really understand the English language. The OP inferred it, ergo it was implied (intentionally, or not)

      I think I have a pretty solid handle on the English language.

      "hey!" wrote "The book is much less clear on exactly how Frankenstein constructs his monster, but it implies alchemy or other discredited pseudoscience is involved", emphasis mine.

      "SuricouRaven" wrote "It doesn't really imply that", and then went on to explain that Frankenstein abandoned the pseudoscience and employed medical science to create his monster.

      Please try to read the posts you're responding to before calling people stupid.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    25. Re: That's not what Frankenstein means by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Victor Frankenstein's name consists of two parts. His first name, and his surname. Logically, his creation should also have the surname of Frankenstein. Since his creation is not given a first name, his surname is all we have. Hence, the monster's name is Frankenstein.

    26. Re:That's not what Frankenstein means by DerekLyons · · Score: 0

      You get that "Jackass pedant of the day" award. "Frankenstein" has a well known cultural meaning as well, and the article's usage of the term is consistent with that.

      Seriously, why are practically all the highly rated comments to this article nothing but pedantic nitpicks?

    27. Re: That's not what Frankenstein means by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Do you realize that answering a perfectly logical explanation of why you're wrong with an ad hominem doesn't exactly make you look like a genius?

    28. Re: That's not what Frankenstein means by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not a zombie, but a Golem... a flesh golem.

    29. Re: That's not what Frankenstein means by jfdavis668 · · Score: 1

      Walk this way...

    30. Re: That's not what Frankenstein means by khallow · · Score: 1

      But can you stop being a moron?

      I never started being one. As I noted, inference doesn't indicate implication. The inference could be pulled out of one's ass, for example.

    31. Re: That's not what Frankenstein means by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, and therefore represented by an apostrophe instead of a capital letter Z.

    32. Re:That's not what Frankenstein means by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But "Grand Canyon Is 'The Modern Prometheus' of Geologic Formations" makes no sense at all.

    33. Re: That's not what Frankenstein means by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But can you stop being a moron? Apologies: you aren't smart enough to answer the question: You're not.

      My buddy Jim dines at a local pub. He's wandered from place to place started young and slim but now he weighs a BURLY TON man! His temper got us in a real jam once with the owner over a thing just like this. Got ugly with some broken stuff and it could have got uglier. We mad enice though only owed $93.64 on our tab, but I paid $399. anyway I try to avoid that kind of anger these days. I've had a drink or two while I read this thread and you all made me think of it. Cheers one and all

    34. Re:That's not what Frankenstein means by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You have no idea what Frankenstein means, do you? Try reading it sometime. Here's a hint: start by reading the subtitle.

      They do know what it means and used it's meaning here. Try not to take everything so literally. The world is a beautiful place filled with poetry, but you have to listen for it.

    35. Re: That's not what Frankenstein means by wolja · · Score: 1

      Wrong. YOU are the one name calling. Have you actually READ the book? 'Frankenstein' is the doctor... not the monster.

      Or perhaps the monster is the mad scientist who put together a patchwork revenant rather than the patchwork revenant itself.

      Or maybe the article is using the patchwork part as the link.

      Gotta love the pedantics who blindly pursue their pedantry in the face of fact.

      --
      Wolja Future Tombstone: Shit happened then I died
    36. Re: That's not what Frankenstein means by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

      That might matter if there was a perfectly logical explanation of why I'm wrong. When you are right, no such logical argument exists, by definition. Also, what makes you think I care if I "look like a genius" ?

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    37. Re: That's not what Frankenstein means by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

      So the stuff I design and create bears my last name? Your reasoning is true if he was a human being and relative, but he was neither, ergo, no surname for the artificial monster..

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
  2. In other news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Funny

    Wyoming's Devil's Tower formation will now be referred to as the "Ron Jeremy" of geologic formations.

    That is all.

    1. Re:In other news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fat, ugly, poor hygiene?

    2. Re:In other news... by OakDragon · · Score: 1

      And appeared in the motion picture, "Close Encounters of the Perv Kind".

    3. Re:In other news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are a lot of more phallic formations out there, if you just Google "penis rock." There's even a "scrotum rock."

      On second thought, scratch that...

  3. So is this .... by PPH · · Score: 3, Funny

    ... another instance of Agile development?

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
    1. Re:So is this .... by Aighearach · · Score: 4, Funny

      No, just another Waterfall variant.

    2. Re:So is this .... by asylumx · · Score: 1

      You beat me to it!

    3. Re:So is this .... by PPH · · Score: 1
      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
  4. Re:Timeline is all wrong. by stillpixel · · Score: 1

    yes yes yes.. it was all created in a "great flood".....

  5. Erosion is a myth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    I refuse to believe in "erosion" as they teach in schools. Sure you can see water moves small clumps of dirt and rocks, but to jump from observing anthills being washed away to huge canyons and moving continents is absurd.

    WHERE IS THE MISSING LINK? Surely there would be mountains with small streams caving in on themselves this very minute. It should be happening all the time. Not even on the daily news, because it should be normal, the erosionists claim. Like, whoops, another mountain just caved in and became a canyon.

    There should be rivers moving cities out of the way and leaving canyons to hell in their path. The truth is, all we ever see are small floods, AND THE WATER ALWAYS RECEDES, AND DOES NOT LEAVE A HUGE CANYON.

    Erosion is not science. You cannot observe it. All you can do is assume. Even William Phipps Blake, the guy who came up with this "theory" recanted on his death bed. Said he made it all up for money.

    TEACH THE CONTROVERSY.

    1. Re:Erosion is a myth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      Yeah around here that shit passes for "funny". Because everyone here is an insecure douchebag, always longing to prove how inoffensive and easygoing and modern and sensitive and clever they are. So this super mildmannered neutered form of humor is considered some kind of achievement. Each humors the other so he can be humored like a child in turn. Now you know why the idiotic, repetitive, annoying, predictable, unoriginal memes keep getting modded up. Yeah dude, sharks with lasers attached to their heads, man that's definitely hilarious even after YEARS of seeing it, sure man, that's great! Quick, mod it up to +5 Funny! Mod down the guys who don't share these insecurities and recognize it as stupid, let's definitely never listen to them or ask questions like "what if they do have a point?"! Oh man I almost feel part of something now!

    2. Re:Erosion is a myth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well said good sir. I don't consider this post to be "funny" but rather "insightful".

    3. Re:Erosion is a myth by ouachiski · · Score: 1

      Watch it, I went to school in Louisiana and if this is sarcasm I will be upset.

      --
      sorry for my comments, I'm drunk
    4. Re:Erosion is a myth by rhodium_mir · · Score: 4, Funny

      In essence the Grand Canyon is a Beowulf cluster of canyons.

      --
      You can't spell "oneiromancy" without "roman".
    5. Re:Erosion is a myth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You got period pain, little man?

    6. Re:Erosion is a myth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      555 goon sir

    7. Re:Erosion is a myth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      If Canons eroded from solid ground -- Then WHY IS THERE STILL SOLID GROUND?

    8. Re:Erosion is a myth by blackjackshellac · · Score: 1

      Obviously. Jesus dug the canyon with help from His dinosaur friends. In a weekend. Without a shovel. Obviously. Praise.

      --
      Salut,

      Jacques

    9. Re:Erosion is a myth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The fact which is not always appreciated within the techno-scientific culture (like here) is that the way in which a problem is framed can have an enormous -- oftentimes dominant -- say in the conclusions which a person ends up with. This is partly why there are so many debates in science today which -- despite our impressive capabilities to measure -- tend to end up in a stalemate. The conclusions are obvious to the assumptions, which are embedded into the worldviews of those who cling to those beliefs, and people will try to reverse-engineer the arguments and evidence to fit those conclusions. People generally do this all of the time. We like to think that we are rational, but the way in which we think is not at all objective. It's not the way that a scientist would -- ideally -- think. If you don't get that, then watch Kahneman's speech he gave at Yale that has been posted to YouTube on how the mind works.

      In this particular case, there is at least one very obvious explanation for why the Colorado River seems to just punch straight through the Kaibab Upwarp: It was created by a very large electrical discharge of some sort. If a person takes a look at those arguments in depth, they will come to observe that those questions have not actually been seriously asked. And the reason is that they involve questioning assumptions about how the universe works which are basically set into stone at this point.

      And so, the public needs to come to grips with this: There are actually, at this point, a very large set of questions which are "out of bounds" to scientific investigation today. Innovation in science has grown into something which is not at all like innovation in product design: There is no interest in mapping out the entire problem space, or in practicing re-framing of the problem, as designers tend to do every day.

      The public isn't quite at this point of realizing this problem yet, but I do believe that we are very slowly heading towards this realization. And the Grand Canyon makes for an excellent example of the problem.

    10. Re:Erosion is a myth by azav · · Score: 1

      This happens in Switzerland when mountain lakes held back by ice give way. A whole massive amount of water occasionally washes entire towns away.

      Allegedly, this is how the Dakota Badlands were formed.

      --
      - Zav - Imagine a Beowulf cluster of insensitive clods...
    11. Re:Erosion is a myth by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      This happens in Switzerland when mountain lakes held back by ice give way. A whole massive amount of water occasionally washes entire towns away.

      Hmmm, that's certainly not impossible, but I can't think of a SWISS example that you're thinking of. There was an Italian town severely trashed in the late 1960s or early 1970s. Of the order of a thousand dead. But that was in consequence of a (earthquake assisted) slope failure above an artificial dam, leading to the dam being over-topped. Hardly the same thing. Nasty, but that's the closest I can think of to your description. There are also some very large landslide scars in several parts of the Alps, but I think they're all prehistoric, or at least pre-urbanisation. [Self : wikis : "Monte Toc landslide (260 millions cubic metres) falling into the Vajont Dam basin in Italy, causing a megatsunami and about 2000 deaths, on October 9, 1963" ; close enough for my memory.]

      Allegedly, this is how the Dakota Badlands were formed.

      I think that you mean the Channelled Scablands, which IIRC are in Idaho (not my country or continent) ; but yes, probably a jokullhlaup. (When it comes to glaciers and water, the Icelanders often have an appropriate word. In this case, the translation is approximately "icecap vomiting". Which fits closely enough.)

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
    12. Re:Erosion is a myth by azav · · Score: 1

      Well, as a man with both Italian and Swiss ancestors, I can tell you there are places in the Alps where both of the countries meet. The San Gotthard Pass is one of them.

      But even though you bring up a case in the 1960s/1970s where this happened, the case I am referring to in Switzerland was reported in New Scientist a few years ago.

      Lakes form behind ice dams and they can exist for a year, for decades, for a while. When the water finds a way through, the ice dams will break and whole towns can and have disappeared.

      Actually, I do mean the Dakota badlands. There was a massive inland lake up in Canada that seems to have burst the same way. But again, you have brought new information to my attention. It may have been so large that it also affected the Channeled Scablands - or simply I am wrong. Or, there may have been more than one massive inland lake with the bursting of each creating these structures.

      Yeah, quick Google searches indicate that you are indeed correct on the Scablands, but I recall watching some nature/history of the Earth show stating that the same happened for the badlands.

      Cheers.

      --
      - Zav - Imagine a Beowulf cluster of insensitive clods...
  6. Re:Timeline is all wrong. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Which authority was that?

  7. The Grand Canyon is not a "formation" by Mr.+Firewall · · Score: 5, Informative

    A formation is a layer of sediment that has been compacted into rock. There's more to the formal definition, but that will suffice for now.

    The Grand Canyon cuts through dozens of formations, but cannot, itself, be a formation.

    So much for "news for nerds."

    --
    In times of universal deceit, telling the truth gets you modded -1 Troll
    1. Re:The Grand Canyon is not a "formation" by gerardrj · · Score: 2

      There is much wrong with this article.
      Geeks today aren't what they used to be.

      --
      Article X: The powers not delegated... by the Constitution...are reserved...to the people
    2. Re:The Grand Canyon is not a "formation" by Aighearach · · Score: 5, Funny

      Geeks today aren't what they used to be.

      The user quality has certainly eroded, as has everything else around here.

      Even the grits have deteriorated.

    3. Re:The Grand Canyon is not a "formation" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What would you categorize it as then? I just googled, and it seems that "geologic structure" has a narrow technical definition as well.

      If you can't come up with anything better (and dodges aren't better), "geologic formations" is good enough for laymen.

    4. Re:The Grand Canyon is not a "formation" by Mr.+Firewall · · Score: 3, Informative

      If you can't come up with anything better (and dodges aren't better), "geologic formations" is good enough for laymen.

      When I see the phrase "good enough for laymen" on slashdot, I know that /. has gone a LONG way downhill.

      I think the word that Timothy was looking for is "feature."

      --
      In times of universal deceit, telling the truth gets you modded -1 Troll
    5. Re:The Grand Canyon is not a "formation" by Mr.+Firewall · · Score: 1

      There is much wrong with this article.

      Yeah. Starting with the fact that it's written at about a sixth-grade reading level.

      --
      In times of universal deceit, telling the truth gets you modded -1 Troll
    6. Re:The Grand Canyon is not a "formation" by mark-t · · Score: 1

      A valley. Just an impressively large one.

    7. Re:The Grand Canyon is not a "formation" by gmhowell · · Score: 1

      Geeks today aren't what they used to be.

      The user quality has certainly eroded, as has everything else around here.

      Even the grits have deteriorated.

      Once petrified, erosion was inevitable.

      --
      Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
    8. Re:The Grand Canyon is not a "formation" by physicsphairy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I'm all for precision in language, but in day-to-day speech a 'formation' is just something that is formed, and the grand canyon is indeed a formation even if it is not a 'geologic formation' proper. It's a bit like if mechanics decided to formally call washers 'round things' and then got particularly upset when a ball bearing was casually referrered to as a 'round thing' as well.

    9. Re:The Grand Canyon is not a "formation" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Erodal September.

    10. Re:The Grand Canyon is not a "formation" by imikem · · Score: 1

      So has Natalie Portman. I'd still hit that though.

      --
      Perscriptio in manibus tabellariorum est.
    11. Re:The Grand Canyon is not a "formation" by mcgrew · · Score: 2

      When I see the phrase "good enough for laymen" on slashdot, I know that /. has gone a LONG way downhill.

      We're all laymen, except for the geologists here. You have a PhD in high energy physics? Still a layman, you don't know any more about geology than I do.

      That said, the educational attainments of slashdotters seems to have slid greatly considering the number of grocer's apostrophes and homophone idiocy I see here lately so I do agree with your point. I attribute it to the fact that when slashdot was new, almost everybody on the internet was a nerd.

    12. Re:The Grand Canyon is not a "formation" by hicksw · · Score: 1

      Formations are rocks. The Grand Canyon is a hole.

      I am more fascinated by the claim that the Colorado River 'joined up' the earlier bits.

      What cut those earlier bits? Links by email, please.
      --
      I look up and all I see are the lights of a billion places I'll never go. a few hundred, meh.

    13. Re:The Grand Canyon is not a "formation" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      News for Nerfs. Stuff that shatters

  8. Frankenstein was the doctor by gerardrj · · Score: 3, Informative

    Not the cobbled together monster!

    --
    Article X: The powers not delegated... by the Constitution...are reserved...to the people
    1. Re:Frankenstein was the doctor by jd2112 · · Score: 1

      Not the cobbled together monster!

      I thought Frankenstein was an Edgar Winters Group song.

      --
      Any insufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology.
    2. Re:Frankenstein was the doctor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      True, but Americans don't know how to read.

    3. Re:Frankenstein was the doctor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Some of us just don't give a shit about small nuances such as this. We get the gist and...move on.

    4. Re:Frankenstein was the doctor by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      We know how, there are just not very many who bother. On the "knowing how" metric we're one of the top in the world. Only a few bored backwaters with nothing to do beat us, like Armenia or Iceland.

    5. Re:Frankenstein was the doctor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do your knuckles ever hurt?

    6. Re:Frankenstein was the doctor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is plenty to do in Armenia, insensitive clod.

    7. Re:Frankenstein was the doctor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Americans, consequential. Lamers taking potshots at Americans but who are too embarrassed to identify their own country, not consequential.

    8. Re:Frankenstein was the doctor by Bite+The+Pillow · · Score: 2

      Having moved on, is the doctor named something else, and the monster now named Frankenstein?

      Nothing has changed, except that we can tell who read the book, who is old enough to have watched talkies instead, and who is young enough to talk about things they heard about but have no first hand knowledge of.

      Let's all move on and let the idiots self identify. Meanwhile, the Grand Canyon is either a self aware amalgamation with difficulty speaking, a cutting edge doctor, or Peter Boyle.

      Case else, I would expect Slashdot to run "Gene Wilder found in desert" as the headline.

    9. Re:Frankenstein was the doctor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's because we don't like to brag.

    10. Re:Frankenstein was the doctor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Considering the title of TFA is The Grand Canyon as Frankenstein the trouble seems to be that Science Magazine is a tabloid.

    11. Re:Frankenstein was the doctor by hubie · · Score: 0

      Ba-ba ba ba b-ba ba baaaaa, ba-ba ba bo-ba!

    12. Re:Frankenstein was the doctor by rossdee · · Score: 0

      Was that before William Hartnell

    13. Re:Frankenstein was the doctor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "It's a common misconception, held by all truly stupid people."

      Nerd points for getting the reference without using a search engine.

    14. Re:Frankenstein was the doctor by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

      Finally, someone says something intelligent in this thread! KUDOS!

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    15. Re:Frankenstein was the doctor by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Frankenstein's Monster is, in a way, his child. Victor Frankenstein begat Monster Frankenstein. Now you can dial the pedantry either up or down a notch.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    16. Re:Frankenstein was the doctor by cellocgw · · Score: 1

      I thought Frankenstein was an Edgar Winters Group song.

      Which was specifically so-named because they spliced so many bits of different takes that it reminded them of the original monster. So they got it wrong (monster vs. creator) too.

      Meanwhile: if the Grand Canyon is a result of merged gouge events, clearly it's evidence of Intelligent Eroding!

      --
      https://app.box.com/WitthoftResume Code: https://github.com/cellocgw
    17. Re:Frankenstein was the doctor by Barsteward · · Score: 1

      Who?

      --
      "The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
    18. Re:Frankenstein was the doctor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Frankenstein, noun, something that destroys or harms the person or people who created it (OED. macmillandictionary & merriam-webster agrees).

      Language evolve. The ROOT to this word is Frankenstein's Monster but the word has now evolved. Now I admit I don't see it as an abjective to mean "built from random little bits of other stuff" but I have heard it used that way many times before.

    19. Re:Frankenstein was the doctor by AthanasiusKircher · · Score: 1

      Frankenstein's Monster is, in a way, his child. Victor Frankenstein begat Monster Frankenstein.

      No -- the monster is NOT, in any sense, "his child."

      The monster was created by combining previously living components from various sources. I can say the same thing if I build a desk from dead trees. I "begat" the desk -- it thus must be "Desk AthanasiusKircher." Or, I could weave a shirt out of cotton. I thus "begat" the shirt -- it is thus "Shirt AthanasiusKircher." QED.

      Wait... what? No. The world doesn't work like that.

      "Ah," you say, "but these aren't human."

      Okay, sure. Let's try that. I'm a heart surgeon. I take a heart from a previously dead human. I kill a living human (temporarily) by stopping his heart and removing it. I combine the two, a la Frankenstein, and I "reanimate" the being with an electrical stimulus.

      I have thus "begat" my patient, and he "is, in a way," my child. QED.

      Umm... wait, no, that doesn't work either. I think you might be wrong about this.

      Now you can dial the pedantry either up or down a notch.

      I'm perfectly fine with calling the monster "Frankenstein," by the way. But the actual reason it tends to be called Frankenstein is because the majority of the modern population got to know about the creature through a series of movies, in which the monster IS, in fact, called "Frankenstein," rather than "Frankenstein's monster" or whatever.

      That's the reason the monster is called that. It's illogical -- about as logical as calling the desk I just built after my own name -- and inconsistent with the book. But that's the reason.

      (By the way, I know you're tempted to talk about inventions that sometimes get named after their inventor. That sort of works, except in such a case we clearly call it "a/an X," as in "a Ford" or whatever. We would not say that "the name of our car is Ford." If Frankenstein had created a number of creatures, we might say that any one of them is "a Frankenstein," but the monster is not simply named "Frankenstein," at least according to the book. For the movies, they just adopted a different story.)

      Making up random arguments that don't work is not helpful for showing why a pedant is wrong.

    20. Re:Frankenstein was the doctor by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      The monster was created by combining previously living components from various sources. I can say the same thing if I build a desk from dead trees. I "begat" the desk -- it thus must be "Desk AthanasiusKircher. [...] (By the way, I know you're tempted to talk about inventions that sometimes get named after their inventor.

      Yes, and in fact we refer to an invention as the child of a person all of the time.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  9. Google River View by beaverdownunder · · Score: 5, Interesting
    1. Re:Google River View by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They call him the Water Walker. :)

    2. Re:Google River View by camperdave · · Score: 1

      Nevermind the guy in the sunglasses. How long can the guy in the grey hat hold his breath?

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    3. Re:Google River View by riverat1 · · Score: 1

      Or if you've got the gumption you can row a raft down the river itself like I did 2 years ago. Pictures are nice but they can't really give you the true scope of it all. There's absolutely nothing like being there.

    4. Re:Google River View by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This image should give you a clue about what's going on.

      https://maps.google.com/maps?q=grand+canyon&hl=en&ll=36.180562,-113.116608&spn=0.215596,0.885086&sll=-34.880632,138.660651&sspn=0.030277,0.055318&t=h&hnear=Grand+Canyon&z=11&layer=c&cbll=36.180623,-113.116661&panoid=3hhY7tdbII1RSBq3fRGQ6A&cbp=12,41.4,,0,-2.93

      It becomes quickly clear that the boat in the middle of the image is being obscured with a badly pasted image of water, but the guy in the back of the boat is sticking up above the auto-pasted area.

    5. Re:Google River View by Muad'Dave · · Score: 1

      What's with the exclamation point if you turn to the right?

      --
      Tiller's Rule: Never use a word in written form that you've only heard and never read. You will end up looking foolish.
    6. Re:Google River View by cusco · · Score: 2

      Sigh. Of course you're right, but life is too short to do all the really cool things we want to do. Worst of all, there are now too fucking many people to do a lot of it the way we want to. Did you know that the only way to hike the Inca Trail now is to go with one of two groups (one of 40 and the other of 70 people) allowed per day? When I did it there were 4 of us that got off the train, and we didn't see anyone else for the next three days until we got to the ruin. Well, hopefully I'll be hiking the Apurimac Valley from Cusibamba to Pacaritambo next year, while there are still only farmers who walk that trail. Five years from now there will probably be tour groups.

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
    7. Re:Google River View by riverat1 · · Score: 1

      Sounds like a good adventure. I of course glossed over some of the difficulties in rafting the Grand Canyon. Getting an actual permit is difficult and the whitewater and logistics of a 2-3 week trip in the Grand Canyon are not for beginners and the cost isn't trivial either.

  10. Cosmetic procedures. by Snufu · · Score: 1

    These gorges are not fooling anyone. They can add parts that are only 5 million years old, but they still look old as dirt.

  11. Prediction: by SuricouRaven · · Score: 5, Funny

    Within a couple of weeks creationists are going to start pointing to this finding as evidence that scientists are never to be trusted. If they keep changing their mind on things, how do we know they are right now? If scientists can't give a clear answer, the creationists will argue, we must turn to the one eyewitness account we have of all history - the bible. Which is infallable, of course.

    1. Re:Prediction: by Jason+Levine · · Score: 1

      Modded as funny, but sadly this is very insightful of how creationists think. They value consistency over everything. Therefore in their minds the constant message of "God Did It" is much firmer ground over the ever-changing explanations of science. The fact that these ever-changing explanations come as the result of new data or that the changes are often minor don't matter. The mere fact that science changes makes it unreliable and the fact that religion stays the same* makes it the one to count on.

      * Of course, they completely ignore that religion too changes over time. They do this the same way they do everything else: By saying "religion stays the same" and then ignoring all evidence to the contrary.

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    2. Re:Prediction: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The problem is too many geologists resemble Baptist preachers in their adherence to what they believe is the truth, and lose the skepticism that should mark any good scientist. For example, there is much to be said for the theory that the Colorado River is simply following the path of least resistance through an area where an ancient sea had drained. The canyons were cut by eroding water as the sea disappeared.

    3. Re:Prediction: by WildYaker · · Score: 1

      "They value consistency over everything."

      I am not a creationist, but consistency is the number one assumption of science. Scientist insists that nothing has ever changed in 70 million years. The air pressure is the same. Humidity is the same. Temperature never fluctuates beyond a couple of degrees (or it is Manmade CLIMITE CHANGE RUN!). Recorded history is only 6,000 years old, but apparently over the other 69,994,000 years no changes to the earth happened. If things did change then most of science is out the door. Things obviously have change because there are not any dinosaurs on earth any longer. Apparently, the atmosphere was much different at one time. The composition of the land has changed. Oh and BTW with tectonic changes in the earth do you really think the Grand Canyon has been there for 69,994,000 before recorded time? Probably not.

      Even just 50 million years ago according scientist Australia was part of Antarctica. So there was still plenty of movement in tectonic plates. Even 10 million years ago the Mediterranean was still forming. 30 million years ago the West Coast of the U.S. was still forming and the area of the Grand Canyon did not exist yet. But the Grand Canyon formed before the rest of the Western United States somehow. Interesting when you put all the pieces together in science. It makes you realize that science is just one big fictional story that we tell ourselves.

  12. Re:Timeline is all wrong. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Satan, obviously.

  13. Oborgitory by rmdingler · · Score: 1

    They were each assimilated.

    --
    Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.

    Ernest Hemingway

  14. may have drained north in the past by peter303 · · Score: 1

    I've heard that idea offered by geologists. Especially before the Colorado Plateau road. Like Coding Classes, Nature likes to reuse old structures if it can.

  15. A lot of religious people... by ip_freely_2000 · · Score: 1

    ...say the Grand Canyon was formed last Tuesday, or something like that. Carved out by the Arc, that sat lower in the water because of all the dinosaurs on board. You betcha.

    1. Re:A lot of religious people... by Mr.+Firewall · · Score: 2

      Last Tuesday? No, you old-Earth Creationist, His Noodliness created it along with the rest of the Universe five minutes ago.

      What, you remember events in your life that happened longer ago than five minutes? Well, He created you with those memories already in your brain!

      Go ahead, prove it ain't true meanwhile, I'll have another plate of spaghetti, please.

      --
      In times of universal deceit, telling the truth gets you modded -1 Troll
  16. Noah flood! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You shut up! Erosion is clearly real. My geography (or science?) teacher told us that the Grand Canyon was formed at the time and caused by the great Noah Flood!

    (actually, that is a true story that I only remembered because of the "controversy" poast)

  17. BUNK! by WildYaker · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I live by the Grand Canyon. These scientists are idiots. Most of us that live here know that the Grand Canyon was formed in a very short period of time. It did not take millions of years to form. Scientist get one thing stuck in their head and then can't think of anything else. Answer me one question... if you can answer it then it will prove to me that the Grand Canyon developed over millions of years. Where is all the dirt?

    With any river system where erosion occurs there is a delta. With the Grand Canyon system there is no delta... i.e... no erosion over millions of years. The erosion happened very quickly... most likely from 3 lakes similar to the Great Salt Lake that drained because a land dam broke in the top lake. The lakes drained into each other and over ran the lower lake's land dam. There is satellite imagery evidence of these 3 lakes that support his view.

    Also there is other evidence to support this view. When Mount Saint Helens blew it created a similar canyon. There is also another “Grand Canyon” in Hawaii called Waimea Canyon. The Waimea Canyon was created very quickly as well. It was created when the land collapsed. In both of these cases there are no delta regions from long erosion periods.

    Oh and for you closed minded people, no I am not a creationist.

  18. In Soviet Russia... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...canyon explores YOU!

  19. I was lost 5 comments ago by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    what's going on here