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ACLU and EFF Endorse Weaker USA Freedom Act Passed By Committee
First time accepted submitter sumakor (3571543) writes "The House Judiciary Committee has advanced a weakened version of the USA Freedom Act (HR3361). The amended compromise version allows collection of phone call records up to two hops away from a target, potentially including millions of customer records, and allows for collection without a judge's order in emergency cases. The amended bill also drops the requirement for a privacy advocate who can appeal the rulings of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court and extends the controversial Section 215 of the Patriot Act from 2015 through 2017.
Despite these significant changes the amended bill has been endorsed by the ACLU and the EFF as a first step and the most promising path towards reigning in government surveillance. The two organizations called for further Congressional measures to tighten control of surveillance authorities including an explicit definition of the term 'selector,' a reduction in the number of hops from 2 to 1 under most circumstances and the closing the loophole that allows searches of Americans' data inadvertently collected thru Section 702.
The bill now proceeds to the House Intelligence Committee, who has advanced its competing bill, the FISA Transparency and Modernization Act (HR 4291). The committee will mark up both bills on the same day, beginning at 10am Thursday, behind closed doors."
Despite these significant changes the amended bill has been endorsed by the ACLU and the EFF as a first step and the most promising path towards reigning in government surveillance. The two organizations called for further Congressional measures to tighten control of surveillance authorities including an explicit definition of the term 'selector,' a reduction in the number of hops from 2 to 1 under most circumstances and the closing the loophole that allows searches of Americans' data inadvertently collected thru Section 702.
The bill now proceeds to the House Intelligence Committee, who has advanced its competing bill, the FISA Transparency and Modernization Act (HR 4291). The committee will mark up both bills on the same day, beginning at 10am Thursday, behind closed doors."
1) This bill basically changes nothing - they can do whatever they want by declaring an "emergency", and there is no effective oversight.
2) "Reining in", NOT "reigning in". The expression refers to slowing horses down, not kings at home.
"I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
one has to wonder if they are bankrolled by the intellectual property industry.
The solution is simple. Reclassify the net under title 2
The ACLU and EFF have been two of the most ineffectual groups of the last decade or more. Its arguable that most of the staff are CIA anyway.
Please note that the Orwellian title of this bill, as opposed to what is really in it.
Holy hell look at that name...this bill must be full of draconian nightmare laws!
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
Any law restricting theses freedoms and fundamentals rights are bad for the democracy. Unfortunately, EFF is taking a significant drop in my opinion.
The only way to stop this mess is to completly outlaw ANY logging or surveillance by ANY agency (FBI, CIA, NSA, DEA, Homeland Security or whoever else) or by ANY private company on behalf of the government except where the surveillance or logging is being done on a specific identifiable entity (e.g. a Facebook account or a Google account or an ISP account or a cellphone number/account or whatever) AND a judge has granted a warrant.
Even the worst possible hypothetical attack (e.g. a terrorist with a nuclear bomb powerful enough to turn the entire eastern seaboard into a smoking crater) is not bad enough to justify any kind of monitoring, surveillance or logging of the communications of people who have not been classified as a threat by an independent judge.
Though it sounds like a step in the right direction, for it's implementation to have any real teeth, the agencies it deigns to rein in would have to be rules-followers.
Observable evidence seems to run contrary to this conclusion.
Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.
Ernest Hemingway
The amended compromise version allows collection of phone call records up to two hops away from a target, potentially including millions of customer records, and allows for collection without a judge's order in emergency cases. The amended bill also drops the requirement for a privacy advocate who can appeal the rulings of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court and extends the controversial Section 215 of the Patriot Act from 2015 through 2017.
This is the "weaker" version? This basically is a bill with no limits.
Two hops? That just means if you ever called the phone company, a utility, UPS/Fedex etc then they can "hop" to you. It's no real limitation at all. It also means that they can just declare something an emergency whenever they want. No real oversight. No advocate for the citizenry.
Long may it reign.
of Covenants. Condo boards have really proven the Constitution archaic.
Freedom is coming.
http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3thcpi
since neither Congress nor the President has any real oversight of the CIA or NSA
I think the President has a very good idea what the NSA is up to since the reports they generate ultimately come to him and his direct reports. I'm pretty sure the Congressional leadership also has a fairly good idea what is going on. However I do not think their interests align with those of the citizenry and so they have little to no incentive to exercise what you or I would consider proper oversight. They benefit from the violation of our civil rights.
This bill sucks... and I wondered "Why would the ACLU support this?" But when you really think about it, if your neighbor had a vicious attack dog and you wanted him to take it to the pound, and he came to you and said "Well, I got this $4 leash and tied him to a tree..." are you going to say "Absolutely not!" No, you're going to thank him, wait a few days and then continue to pester him to get rid of the dog. Some restraint is better than none. I suspect the NSA will completely ignore this legislation and the ACLU will use it as legal leverage to file lawsuits and try to reveal more evidence of what they're up to.
Take whatever the fuck they want.
They can basically operate however they want until someone snitches on them.
At that point, there's a big kerfuffle in DC as people dive out of the line of fire. Then...nothing.
Shortly afterwards, the informant is renditioned or flees and is declared an enemy of the state.
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
The perfect solution fallacy is an informal fallacy that occurs when an argument assumes that a perfect solution exists and/or that a solution should be rejected because some part of the problem would still exist after it were implemented. This is an example of black and white thinking, in which a person fails to see the complex interplay between multiple component elements of a situation or problem, and as a result, reduces complex problems to a pair of binary extremes.
It is common for arguments which commit this fallacy to omit any specifics about exactly how, or how badly, a proposed solution is claimed to fall short of acceptability, expressing the rejection in vague terms only. Alternatively, it may be combined with the fallacy of misleading vividness, when a specific example of a solution's failure is described in emotionally powerful detail but base rates are ignored (see availability heuristic).
The fallacy is a type of false dilemma.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N...
...if they aggressively pursued all Bill of Rights violations by the government, not just those of the Constitutional Rights that they particularly happen to agree with.
-Styopa
Unless you provide criminal penalties for those who would break this law, don't bother. You know what I mean - you do this for *every* other prohibitive law which doesn't target government, but always seem to forget that part when you're trying to reign in government.
While you're at it, make a breach of this law also be a civil cause of action.
Seriously.
Otherwise, don't bother. If there's no penalties for breaking this law, it'll be ignored like all the rest of them.
Do you have ESP?
I hereby request all CostCo, Amazon, and my local power and water utility company customers to please abstain from ever being suspected of anything.
If you're not sure whether or not you might be suspected of a crime, perhaps a good rule of thumb is that you should try to stay two hops away from any actual criminals. So if you're a Bank of America customer, yes, that means I'm asking you to not use my local power utility.
Thank you for your cooperation.
NO, WAIT! NO!!! No, I didn't mean to imply I'm cooperating with those suspected suspects. No. Oh, shit. Shit! *sigh* Sorry, neighbors. Yes, of course, I will immediately cancel my local power utility.
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
The 'Patriot' Act, the 'Freedom' Act. It seems the American sounding buzzwords for Acts are the less American Acts in terms of real freedom and constitutional rights.
I haven't seen anyone call for it, but what is really needed is a time limit on classifying data collection. Say 5 years. If the data collection goes public after 5 years, there will be more accountability. We want know what they're doing, but we will know what they did. And, if they can't justify it, they could be prosecuted.
"extends the controversial Section 215 of the Patriot Act from 2015 through 2017."
Section 215 is the provision which they have interpreted to mean every and all records collected by a business... server logs, router logs, email logs, credit card transactions, cable tv viewing data, car transponder data, car location data (as now collected by private companies and bought by the police), bank records, facebook friends lists, pictures you upload, library records etc etc etc. Basically everything that any company you do business with or knows about you could possibly think of putting in a database.
Putting a 2 hop limitation on phone records misses 99.9% of the types of records government surveillance will be interested in collecting and aggregating moving forward. Might as well put a telegraph limitation in there or a horse and buggy surveillance limitation and call it "restraint".
Leaving section 215 in place without limitation means that the government can still order companies to hand over all their records. According to this report the only limitation now is going to be this two hop restriction on phone records which is likely to be narrowly construed to mean just phone calls and not text messages or location data or credit card transaction records or server logs or router logs or facebook friends lists or pictures you have uploaded, or files you store in the cloud, etc etc.
Calling this an "imperfect solution" is being very very misleading. This isn't a solution it is a lie.
The real problem is section 215 or anything like it. Which is what the government has been using to confiscate all sorts of records that companies that you do business with might keep. Limiting just phone calls misses 99.9999% of what the government might want to collect moving forward.
Section 215 is the provision which they have interpreted to mean every and all records collected by a business... server logs, router logs, email logs, credit card transactions, cable tv viewing data, car transponder data, car location data (as now collected by private companies and bought by the police), bank records, facebook friends lists, pictures you upload, library records etc etc etc. Basically everything that any company you do business with or knows about you could possibly think of putting in a database.
So on the face of this Congress really needs to enumerate the things that can be collected instead of leaving in a provision that seems to allow them to collect everything and then only restrict one particularly type of record
Maybe the ACLU and EFF are just trying to make a career out of this law. Because in another couple years we are going to hear about how they are collecting another type of data under section 215 and then the ACLU and EFF are going to be up in arms over it and fundraising to stop it. Guys, just hold the line and oppose section 215 or any insidious replacement of it. You can still support the two-hop limitation, but oppose the bill.
Even the average anesthetized American brain can see the irony in these names. Soon we shall have a ministry of love.
If video games influenced behavior the Pac Man generation would be eating pills and running away from their problems.
And the EFF and ACLU approve?? Very sad. That the voters approve is sadder still.
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
But first will be the "Women's Total Control Over Their Own Bodies Act", right after Roberts/Scalia/Thomas overturn Roe v. Wade, which at their present rate of terrorism, will be within the year.
And behold, I saw the numerous storage manufacturers waiting nervously at the gates to hear more about the coming government spending spree. One for two or two for one, that was the issue. For there lies the wisdom of the old. As long as the media spins, so do the politicians.
The names for American legislation, are lifted straight out of Orwell's 1984, as are the ruling regime's policies.
Eternal war, anyone?
It is grossly perverse, given all the empty talk of democracy from the US media, and the series of truly awful militaristic/corporate fascist regimes that have ruled over the last few decades.
Someone needs to reign in the endemically corrupt tie-in of the totalitarian security apparatus, lobbyists, corporations, the military, and the shameful excuse for politicians. It has to be done before even more people living in other parts of the world are attacked by this evil regime, either economically, or militarily.
America is by definition, a rogue state. Who cares what they do domestically. It is the detrimental effect they have on the rest of the world that worries me, as they try to impose their 'free trade' agreements (which are anything but, if you actually bother to read them!), their economic policies (which are designed to benefit American corporations), or the expansionist military tendencies (which are designed to further seat American influence, wherever there is something to plunder for the ruling elite).
I feel truly sorry for the ordinary American worker. They are stripped of basic employment rights, have a terrible health care system (even many poor countries have a lower infant mortality rate), and have no real political influence. The dollar's day as a reserve currency are numbered. When foreign powers stop buying US debt, the house of cards will crumble. Let's just hope they are more gradually divorced from the world economic cycle, and they go out with a whimper, rather than a grand implosion.
Do not get this confused whatsoever, a bunch of dumb old cocksuckers (congress and the president), usually call a bill something where you don't even realize you're being ass-fucked.
Let us call this what it really is the "USA Slavery Act", an extension of the first Patriot, er slavery act.
It is just a further expansion of fascism. It solidifies a partnership between government and communication companies. The fascist are attemting to seize control over communications including the Internet.
We can't allow that to happen under ANY circumstances.
I don't condone violence, but I will not shed a single tear for any officers or company board members that get hurt because of these actions. If you don't want it to happen to you, then don't do it to us.