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Biggest Dinosaur Yet Discovered

An anonymous reader quote the BBC: "Fossilised bones of a dinosaur believed to be the largest creature ever to walk the Earth have been unearthed in Argentina, palaeontologists say. Based on its huge thigh bones, it was 40m (130ft) long and 20m (65ft) tall. Weighing in at 77 tonnes, it was as heavy as 14 African elephants, and seven tonnes heavier than the previous record holder, Argentinosaurus. Scientists believe it is a new species of titanosaur — an enormous herbivore dating from the Late Cretaceous period. A local farm worker first stumbled on the remains in the desert near La Flecha, about 250km (135 miles) west of Trelew, Patagonia."

113 comments

  1. advice to those who name dinosaurs by iggymanz · · Score: 3, Insightful

    quit using synonyms for very big. it's getting tedious. thank you.

    1. Re:advice to those who name dinosaurs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Can't say I'm very impressed with "Argentinosaurus" either.

    2. Re:advice to those who name dinosaurs by mr_resident · · Score: 4, Funny

      Aw come on, what about "HUMUNGOSAURUS"? That sounds pretty bad-ass.

    3. Re:advice to those who name dinosaurs by iggymanz · · Score: 1

      without the "saurus" on the end sounds even more bad-ass, and then could be name for something other than a dino

    4. Re:advice to those who name dinosaurs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How much do you want to bet Argentiniousaurus is made up of the bones of several other dinosaurs, has two heads, three tails, and 8 testicles?

      Because that's what these people do you see.

    5. Re:advice to those who name dinosaurs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It makes such a cute name for my ex-wife!

    6. Re:advice to those who name dinosaurs by aled · · Score: 1

      really? I didn't know that. Care to elaborate and give some examples of Argentine false scientific discoveries? because I'm from Argentina and know nothing about it.
      thanks

      --

      "I think this line is mostly filler"
    7. Re:advice to those who name dinosaurs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      quit using synonyms for very big. it's getting tedious. thank you.

      that's what she said.

    8. Re:advice to those who name dinosaurs by iggymanz · · Score: 1

      the rest of us here already were calling her that; well, her ass anyway

    9. Re:advice to those who name dinosaurs by fluffy_1969 · · Score: 1

      Hm... microsoftsaur... hopeful the lastone will die soon....

    10. Re:advice to those who name dinosaurs by cb88 · · Score: 0

      It isn't specific to any single group of paleontologists. The theory is that scientists like to name dinosaurs, so whenever they find one that looks a bit different they make up a new name rather than trying to figure out if it is just another development stage of a previously discovered dinosaur. This is perfectly understandable taking human nature into consideration.

      There is a TED talk by Jack Horner that covers the topic. http://www.ted.com/talks/jack_horner_shape_shifting_dinosaurs

      Jack explains how he has proven than many differently named dinosaurs are acutally the same ... he also explains a bit of the thoght process that causes this to happen.

    11. Re:advice to those who name dinosaurs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also don't forget that evolution is a lie, carbon dating doesn't work, and that God put fake bones in the ground to test your faith. Stop believing in these fairy tales, you fools!

      Also, you guys are welcome over to my house on Sunday to discuss facts like how we never landed on the moon and reptilians are secretly controlling society.

    12. Re:advice to those who name dinosaurs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What would be the blood pressure necessary for these things to get blood to the brain?

    13. Re:advice to those who name dinosaurs by D'Sphitz · · Score: 1

      Well it hasn't quite reached the stupidity of "unobtainium" yet...

    14. Re:advice to those who name dinosaurs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They could have gone into plaidsaurus directly.

    15. Re:advice to those who name dinosaurs by FatdogHaiku · · Score: 1

      Right! They could just start using synonyms for "very funny" and "great personality". Also, if thigh size is the determining factor in overall size Mrs. Wolowitz (mother of Howard Joel Wolowitz) may have them beat...

      --
      You have the right to remain sentient. If you give up the right to remain sentient, you will be elected to public office
    16. Re:advice to those who name dinosaurs by MrBigInThePants · · Score: 1

      A super villain or old-timey wrestler maybe...

    17. Re:advice to those who name dinosaurs by kimvette · · Score: 1

      Just wait until we get to Ginormasaurus, then maybe Megalosaurus!!!

      --
      The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
    18. Re:advice to those who name dinosaurs by pspahn · · Score: 1

      This, I am assuming, is also why there are a trillion different names for pot these days. I recently bought something called "Seal Team 303". It was nice, but I know that in probably less than two years, nobody will know what that "strain" is, because everything will have new names again.

      --
      Someone flopped a steamer in the gene pool.
    19. Re:advice to those who name dinosaurs by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      I agree, it's so exponentially annoying that it literally makes my blood boil.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    20. Re:advice to those who name dinosaurs by flyneye · · Score: 1

      It always makes me wonder how the new discovery must taste ,steak on grill. Lizard is generally one of the tastes like chicken critters, but by the time you get up to gator its got a pleasant uniqueness. Gimme a Steakosaurus Rex! If they ever recoup some $ from genetic research/farting around , it would be to resurrect some delicious species to mass consumables level.
      The oddest meats can just be excellent. I could go on to the shock and horror of many, but we will keep this on topic.
      Alligator is good, therefore larger Dinos may be outrageously delicious.

      --
      *Repent!Quit Your Job!Slack Off!The World Ends Tomorrow and You May Die!
    21. Re:advice to those who name dinosaurs by flyneye · · Score: 1

      Give him x number of horns and make it -cerotops
      How badass is that?
      Hed have to breath fire or have Gatling guns mounted to get any badder!

      --
      *Repent!Quit Your Job!Slack Off!The World Ends Tomorrow and You May Die!
    22. Re:advice to those who name dinosaurs by Smauler · · Score: 1

      Megalosaurus already exists. Its original scientific name was "Scrotum humanum". No, I'm not making this up.

    23. Re:advice to those who name dinosaurs by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      quit using synonyms for very big. it's getting tedious.

      Firstly, "titan" is only a synonym for "very big" if you're ignorant of any culture other than modern American culture. There's a seam of both ancestors and descendants of the Titan pantheon to be explored if you want some different-sounding synonyms.

      Secondly, the ICZN rules (you do know who the ICZN are, and what their relevance to this is, don't you? Of course you do - you raised the subject.) express a preference for Greek or Latin roots for names. Though, you do have a point in that they're much more welcoming of names based on other languages these decades, because all the Greek and Latin is getting a bit repetitive. So if you find a new, very large dinosaur completely unrelated to all other dinosaurs, then you're free to use a synonym for "very big" from Navajho, Nahuatl, or Nincompoopese.

      But there you come to the "thirdly" : if re-analysis of your new fossil shows (in the opinion of other palaeontologists or zoologists, not in your opinion) that your Nuahuatal-biggie-o-saurus is actually a member of, say, the titanosaur clade, or even of a member of a previously named species or genus, then the overriding rule of nomenclature, precedence, comes into play and your new species gets re-assigned to the previously defined group. You can continue to call it whatever you want, but if other people have won the argument and call it something different, your papers may be rejected ("does not use generally accepted nomenclature"), and eventually you'll die and your folly will barely rate a line in an unpublished obituary.

      The genus "Titanosaurus" was erected in 1877 to include the newly-described species Titanosaurus indicus. So good luck with preceding that. If you can do it, I would suggest that your time machine might just possibly earn you more, and longer-lasting fame then the revision of sauropod taxonomy which inspired it - in the same way that Teflon frying pans are more important than the Moon-landing programme that inspired them.

      Your ignorance of the rules of taxonomic nomenclature aside (since most non-life-scientists don't have to deal with these, you're by no means alone in your ignorance), there is a valid point that the taxonomy of the Titanosauridae in particular and the Sauropodomorpha in general is a bit of a mess. That's the result, unfortunately, of a long history of incomplete and fragmentary fossils being described and published as "new species" when there's only really one (rarely two) specimens of this alleged new species. So we may well have many dubious taxa (though taxonomically valid) where the holotype material is actually just (say) a juvenile of a different species, or the other gender of another species (changes in form with age and differentiation between genders being pretty common in vertebrates in general - humans are relatively un-differentiated compared to even our closest relatives, so general experience isn't a good guide here). Unfortunately, with the quality and quantity of fossil material available, that's not a situation which is likely to improve much - largely because you can get dozens or hundreds of complete (e.g.) Compsognathus specimens from the same tonnage of preserved bone as produces one (insufficiently informative) sauropod femur.

      But, if the situation really offends you, you can do something about it : learn your taxonomy ; apply yourself to the anatomy of sauropods (and other megafauna, if you want, and have time) ; do a thorough, convincing and compelling re-analysis of every sauropod fossil you can find (the first, IIRC, was reported during the Civil War. 1640 or so.) ; then work out a convincing, comprehensive and correct re-classification of the whole group. And don't publish a word of it until you've got your whole monograph ready to publish - otherwise you'll find yourself hoist on your own petard of having published on inadequate data and

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
    24. Re:advice to those who name dinosaurs by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      Give him x number of horns

      There is no reported evidence for horns on this fossil. In fact, in the whole Sauropodomorpha, there's only moderate evidence for skull crests and the like, but no horns at all, I'm afraid (as far as I can remember ; IANA sauropod palaeontologist).

      Do you think people just make this stuff up?

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
    25. Re:advice to those who name dinosaurs by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      Jack explains how he has proven than many differently named dinosaurs are acutally the same

      Horner has described a well-known problem in systematics - not just in palaeontology. Colloquially, it is known as the "lumpers versus splitters" problem (lumping multiple specimens into one "bucket" taxon versus splitting up your finds on the basis of small differences) ; it's a genuine problem throughout systematics. Unfortunately, when you've got living specimens you can go back to the field, find more, look at genes, look at biochemistry, observe changes in form and shape with development from infant to maturity ... you can do a lot of things with living species. With palaeontology, you've got the bones. That's it ; end of evidence.

      Horner's work on Torosaurus versus Triceratops is interesting. He makes a good case that they form a bimodal distribution of both size and form. However you can get that sort of distribution from EITHER one species that changes form with growth OR from two species which are closely related. Horner hasn't convinced the palaeontological establishment that his proposition is correct (though he has made a strong case).

      When you did your early training in palaeontology, did you do the exercise of taking a bucket of cockles (Cardium sp., or whatever is convenient to your country) from the beach and trying to sort them to determine how many species there are? It's surprisingly difficult - if you haven't done it before. Which is why it would have been an exercise in one of your early palaeontology (or zoology) labs.

      Give Horner a decade or two and he might win his argument - he's certainly made a good strong case to start with. Unfortunately, with just a hundred or so specimens to work from, he's not in a good position to get to a significance of 0.95, let alone 0.99. So it's going to take time and a lot more fossils to really make his case. "proven" is a big word. Horner hasn't proven his proposition.

      I refer the honourable gentleman to the comments I made up-thread to the millions of fossils examined in a typical oil well (such as I drill for my living) : the numbers of microfossils we can acquire and examine is why we use these fossils instead of fossils which can exceed a millimetre in dimension.

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
    26. Re:advice to those who name dinosaurs by RockDoctor · · Score: 1
      That may still be it's proper name, with Megalosaurus a junior synonym. There was a petition to suppress Scrotum humanum in favour of Megalosaurus bucklandii on the grounds that the former name hadn't been used in published work since 1899, but that petition was turned down. So the possibility remains for Megalosaurus to be suppressed in favour of a senior synonym.

      I doubt that it'll happen though. It might cause as much of a stink as suppression of Brontosaurus.

      There is however considerable grounds for thinking that a revision of Megalosaurus in general is on the cards - there are reports of bimodality in previously published material, which might indicate that the material comes from two species (or from two sexual dimorphs of one species). Someone is looking at it, but I'm not going to spend $40 to read their papers.

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
    27. Re:advice to those who name dinosaurs by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      I think that you've been figuratively breathing too much vacuum recently.

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
    28. Re:advice to those who name dinosaurs by Smauler · · Score: 1

      The chances of "Scrotum Humanum" being accepted as a taxon are essentially nil.

      We can accept silly names in the scientific community when they are not important, but when they're so central to understanding dinosaurs, and their discovery by modern man, silly names give idiots ammunition.

    29. Re:advice to those who name dinosaurs by RockDoctor · · Score: 1
      Fear of giving idiots ammunition is not a valid reason for declaring a name invalid. Unless the ICZN have brought out a new revision recently ; if so, enlighten me!

      There's a damned good reason for thinking long and hard before revising rule books : once you've revised the rule you've got to live with it's consequences. Or you admit that you were an idiot to vote for the revision.

      This is science. Not populism. Or politics.

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
    30. Re:advice to those who name dinosaurs by iggymanz · · Score: 1

      there is no evidence they had wings or beaks either, so I'm snickering at your signature

    31. Re:advice to those who name dinosaurs by iggymanz · · Score: 1

      Fantastic news for you, the dinos are actually ancestors of our modern birds, not lizards. We're talking white and dark meat, drumsticks, breasts, liver, necks for soup, eggs.......the entire culinary realm of poultry applies!

    32. Re:advice to those who name dinosaurs by iggymanz · · Score: 1

      My, what a pontificating prattling gasbag you are.

      Good names for taxonomy are descriptive, but you defend the non-descriptive useless ones, How unscientific.

    33. Re:advice to those who name dinosaurs by flyneye · · Score: 1

      Wilma Flintstone could do a cooking show.

      --
      *Repent!Quit Your Job!Slack Off!The World Ends Tomorrow and You May Die!
    34. Re:advice to those who name dinosaurs by flyneye · · Score: 1

      .50 caliber sideguns it is then!

      --
      *Repent!Quit Your Job!Slack Off!The World Ends Tomorrow and You May Die!
    35. Re:advice to those who name dinosaurs by RockDoctor · · Score: 1
      Does my signature claim that all dinosaurs are birds? All the currently existing ones are, but there used to be a lot of non-avian dinosaurs too.

      Didn't you read Hennig when you were at school?

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
    36. Re:advice to those who name dinosaurs by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      You just don't read (or speak) enough languages. How poorly educated or inattentive you are.

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
    37. Re:advice to those who name dinosaurs by Smauler · · Score: 1

      You want the rule : it's first to name, and that's basically it.

      If you want to go around calling a dinosaur "scrotum humanum", feel free, but everyone will think you strange.

      It definitely breaks the rules in terms of nomenclature, but scientific naming changes all the time anyway, redefining species into other places, etc.

      My personal pet peeve is "Reptile". That contains every land vertebrate that was not a bird, mammal, dinosaur or amphibian. What people don't mention is that mammals evolved from separate reptiles to everything else, and we're more closely related to dimetrodon than birds or dinosaurs are or were. "Reptile" is just a crap catch all term that doesn't mean anything.

    38. Re:advice to those who name dinosaurs by RockDoctor · · Score: 1
      "Reptile" is a polyphyletic clade. Well everyone who knows more about the subject than the average creationist knows that. (This even includes some of those rare beasts - relatively bright creationists!)

      But the point of the question is - is the fossil figured in 1730-or-so (1)well-enough characterised to be considered identifiable - which is arguable unless the actual holotype is found (I don't think it's known, but the store-rooms of museums are strange and wonderful places); and (2) is the name scientifically valid. The latter point is fairly strong - first (known) publication ; binomial form (despite humourous intent) ; Latin-ish ; descriptive.

      If the first point is made (e.g. a suitable speciment for the original is found, with a credible provenance), then a nomenclatural bunfight that would make Apatosaurus vs Brontosaurus is in the offing. Unless someone can find a subtle route to invalidate the name that I haven't thought of. Bye Bye, Megalosaurus, perhaps?

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
  2. I can't understand this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Can you give me a size reference in school buses, swimming pools or football fields? And not those European ones, Gridiron please.

    1. Re:I can't understand this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Can you give me a size reference in school buses, swimming pools or football fields? And not those European ones, Gridiron please.

      how about giving size references in equivalent to a certain number of fat fucking American assholes :P

    2. Re:I can't understand this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Can you give me a size reference in school buses, swimming pools or football fields? And not those European ones, Gridiron please.

      how about giving size references in equivalent to a certain number of fat fucking American assholes :P

      Nah, use Mexicans instead. Mexico is fatter than the US, so the number will be smaller and easier for your simple mind to understand.

    3. Re:I can't understand this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      how about giving size references in equivalent to a certain number of fat fucking American assholes :P

      ok it's aproximately 3 americans in size

    4. Re:I can't understand this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mexicans are Americans

  3. Good thing it wasn't in Toronto by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Titanosaur Robfordus just doesn't have that ring to it...

    1. Re:Good thing it wasn't in Toronto by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Titanosaur Robfordus just doesn't have that ring to it...

      Shouldn't that be a big-mouth crackasaur?

  4. But good christians don't believe in dinosaurs! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So therefore they don't exist right?

    1. Re:But good christians don't believe in dinosaurs! by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      Correct - good Christians don't exist.

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
  5. Analogy by William+Robinson · · Score: 2

    it was as heavy as 14 African elephants

    Next time, could you please use car analogy?

    1. Re:Analogy by RightwingNutjob · · Score: 1

      14 elephant-sized cars?

    2. Re:Analogy by LMariachi · · Score: 4, Funny

      It was as heavy as a truck carrying 13 African elephants.

    3. Re:Analogy by bkmoore · · Score: 1

      it was as heavy as 14 African elephants

      Next time, could you please use car analogy?

      Let me get the banjo music going... It's like the relationship between your childhood Tonka truck with an up-armored MIL-SPEC- HMMWV.

    4. Re:Analogy by MrBigInThePants · · Score: 1

      An elephant sized car will typically weight more than an elephant...also that is a very large car depending on the species of elephant...

      I can feel a monty python sketch coming on...

    5. Re:Analogy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Parent cannot be modded high enough. Spit out my beer.

    6. Re:Analogy by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      It's as heavy as a very light truck carrying 13 African international standard elephants.

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
  6. Promotion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Right on time for Gozilla's promotion !
    Coincidence ? I think not !

  7. I doubt it weighted THAT much by sribe · · Score: 1

    It wasn't fat, it was big-boned!

  8. silly words by epine · · Score: 1

    With a small herd of these pet pandasauri—and an enormous harvest of coprolignum—one could well up the Great Wall of China in record time. It would still required great hordes or workers, but the workers would be highly obedient. Anyone who slacks off would have their highly-prized long-handled trowel promptly confiscated. With no hall pass, it's crenellation duty for you. From there it's years fighting your way up the rank just to obtain the corner-pocket edge-finishing tool.

  9. It peed 2 olympic sized swimming pools too? by dutchwhizzman · · Score: 1

    Or did it weigh as much as 50 F150 trucks? Come one, we have a metric system for a reason on this planet.

    --
    I was promised a flying car. Where is my flying car?
    1. Re:It peed 2 olympic sized swimming pools too? by kimvette · · Score: 1

      Metric would be Lamborghini tractors or VW Beetles, not Ford, you ignorant clod!!

      --
      The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
    2. Re:It peed 2 olympic sized swimming pools too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you do realise the majority of Fords construction is done in metric countries right?

  10. Expect the Republicans... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    to bury this story like they do all of the others because their kind is incapable of understanding that dinosaurs existed. They punish people that are smarter than themselves, and that is most people.

    1. Re:Expect the Republicans... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      retard

  11. Re:Happy Saturday from The Golden Girls! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    You've had an opportunity to write "you're a pal and a coelacanth" and you screwed it!

  12. Does anyone know what the largest possible is? by mark-t · · Score: 3, Interesting

    We know that mass generally increases with the cube of a creature's height, and the tensile strength of bone can only support so much pressure from a creature's own weight, so it seems that if there should be some limit to how large a creature in earth's gravity can be (and, for the sake of argument, not being provided any additional buoyancy due to being under water, for instance). This particular creature is alleged over 60 feet tall, and more than 10 times the height of a man, which makes it more than 1000 times the mass of a human. Cross sectional area generally increases with the square of height difference, meaning that more than 10 times as much pressure would be exerted on every square inch of a lateral cross section of bone as what human bones endure. Now granted, this creature was not shaped like a man, and having four legs instead of just two could give it some additional advantage in this department. Additionally, it could have denser bones, capable of supporting more weight, but denser bone structure in turn requires more muscle mass to move, and will tend to further increase the creature's size. Still, it seems like there's still got to be a maximum possible size. Does anyone know what this might be?

    1. Re:Does anyone know what the largest possible is? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You suggesting the Earth rotated much faster back then? 12 hour days?

    2. Re:Does anyone know what the largest possible is? by Tablizer · · Score: 3, Funny

      Bones are not the only thing that is dense.

    3. Re:Does anyone know what the largest possible is? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The atmosphere of the earth was most likely a bit thicker back then (that would also explain the higher temperatures), but even that alone could not explain the sizes of these things. Most likely they did spend most time in water and there is some other assumption that is off.

    4. Re:Does anyone know what the largest possible is? by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 2

      This animal must have been partially aquatic. Otherwise it is difficult to believe it could actually walk on the earth without some help from the buoyancy provided by water. Since it still has a fully developed femur, it is not totally aquatic like the cetaceans. Must be similar to the hippopotami.

      --
      sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
    5. Re:Does anyone know what the largest possible is? by Deadstick · · Score: 1

      I'd substitute "compressive" for "tensile", but yes, I'd imagine this fellow spent a lot of time wallowing in mud, a behavior I believe is ascribed to some other dinos.

      The square/cube relation certainly affects birds: the larger ones have to employ soaring techniques to extract energy from air movement, in order to find food.

    6. Re:Does anyone know what the largest possible is? by LongearedBat · · Score: 1

      No, the Earth was younger then, and therefore smaller. Now that we've passed the middle ages, we can expect Earth to slowly begin shrinking due to magma-porosis.

    7. Re:Does anyone know what the largest possible is? by mister_playboy · · Score: 1

      The Earth's rotation is slowing, mainly due to the tidal forces from the Moon. Current measurements estimate the length of the day increasing at 1.7 milliseconds per century.

      --
      Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law ::: Love is the law, love under will
    8. Re:Does anyone know what the largest possible is? by Smauler · · Score: 1

      This particular creature is alleged over 60 feet tall, and more than 10 times the height of a man, which makes it more than 1000 times the mass of a human.

      Well.... no. If we take human height to be 2m and weight to be 100kg (This is me, by the way, I've just used these numbers for simplicity) :

      Elephant = 4 metres or so, 2 * height, therefore should weigh 800kg. Actually, they weigh about 7000kg.

      Giraffe = 6 metres or so, 3 * height, therefore should weigh 2700kg. Actually, they weigh about 1200kg.

      The early estimates of this dinosaur's weight are about 77000kg, so not too far off your estimate. Most of its height is in its long neck.

      People have been claiming that giant sauropods must have been semi-aquatic (or fully aquatic) because of their huge size for centuries, and this was the prevailing paradigm until the last 50 years or so. There's quite a lot of evidence now showing that they were at least mainly terrestrial.

      As to how big they could get... simple mechanical engineering was the cause of the now mainly discredited aquatic theories, I think you'll probably have to find someone who actually knows a little about it.

    9. Re:Does anyone know what the largest possible is? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "There's quite a lot of evidence now showing that they were at least mainly terrestrial."

      What is it?

    10. Re:Does anyone know what the largest possible is? by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      This animal must have been partially aquatic.

      Speaking as a geologist, I keep the word "must" locked up in a drawer, the handle of which is wired to the mains to deliver an electric shock every time I touch it, and a loudspeaker booms out "Are you sure? 'MUST??' Are you really absolutely sure?" But then again, my pay cheque depends on being confident of the correctness of what I say, because back-tracking harms my client's confidence in what I say.

      Otherwise it is difficult to believe it could actually walk on the earth without some help from the buoyancy provided by water.

      The published accounts describe it's environment as "forest". Not "swamp". Nor "lake". Nor even "riparian" (which means river side). Since that's the opinion of a team of geologist who've been vworking this bed for some months, and would have been doing detailed sedimentology logs across the bed, microfossil analysis, grains size tracking, examination of ichnofossils associated with the remains as well as studying the regional context for kilometres around. So I suspect that what they really mean is "a forest environment . Not "swamp". Nor "lake". Nor even "riparian" (which still means river side)."

      Contrary to what you may have been taught in school, people do not go around pulling these phrases out of their arses - they look for evidence of the environment, then describe it and publish it with references to the curated samples locations (museum, acquisition number), so that people who disagree can go and look at the rocks for themselves.

      Since it still has a fully developed femur, it is not totally aquatic like the cetaceans. Must be similar to the hippopotami.

      Elephants also have fully developed femurs and are occasionally aquatic (and also occasionally forest-dwelling ,and occasionally savannah-dewlling ; in fact, they're quite flexible!). But they don't look like hippopotami. There's that "must" word in there again. Do you have some really good reason for using that word?

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
    11. Re:Does anyone know what the largest possible is? by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      People have been claiming that giant sauropods must have been semi-aquatic (or fully aquatic) because of their huge size for centuries, and this was the prevailing paradigm until the last 50 years or so. There's quite a lot of evidence now showing that they were at least mainly terrestrial.

      Someone who doesn't use "must" when they mean "possibly,maybe,perhaps"! Excellent!

      TFA describes the environment as "forest". Which is not incompatible with an elephantine lifestyle, since they live in forests - and also on savannahs, and are known to enjoy a good wallow in the mud from time to time, and to swim across rivers too.

      Using the elephantine parallel, I'd anticipate that like many other animals on the planet, they had a quite broad behavioural repertoire, and since they'd have gone through quite a lot of food, they probably had to be moving frequently. Which would mean moving into differing environments regularly.

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
    12. Re:Does anyone know what the largest possible is? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We know that mass generally increases with the cube of a creature's height, and the tensile strength of bone can only support so much pressure from a creature's own weight, so it seems that if there should be some limit to how large a creature in earth's gravity can be (and, for the sake of argument, not being provided any additional buoyancy due to being under water, for instance). This particular creature is alleged over 60 feet tall, and more than 10 times the height of a man, which makes it more than 1000 times the mass of a human. Cross sectional area generally increases with the square of height difference, meaning that more than 10 times as much pressure would be exerted on every square inch of a lateral cross section of bone as what human bones endure. Now granted, this creature was not shaped like a man, and having four legs instead of just two could give it some additional advantage in this department. Additionally, it could have denser bones, capable of supporting more weight, but denser bone structure in turn requires more muscle mass to move, and will tend to further increase the creature's size. Still, it seems like there's still got to be a maximum possible size. Does anyone know what this might be?

      Theoretically there is a maximum size, but if someone finds a bone suggesting an even larger animal then my theory is wrong.

    13. Re:Does anyone know what the largest possible is? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What assumptions are used in identifying the environment that, if incorrect, would destroy the whole argument?

    14. Re:Does anyone know what the largest possible is? by Smauler · · Score: 1

      This paper is probably the most influential.

    15. Re:Does anyone know what the largest possible is? by Smauler · · Score: 1

      Anything this big will be able to eat what it wants, generally. This is seen with elephants now.

      Climate change and predation on young are about the only things that can stop massive herbivores.

      That is, until humanity. There's lots of evidence for stone age people wiping out swathes of huge mammals, for good cause some of the time.

    16. Re:Does anyone know what the largest possible is? by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      There's lots of evidence for stone age people wiping out swathes of huge mammals, for good cause some of the time.

      There are pretty fair correlations in a number of places that the arrival of humans and the disappearance of the "megafauna" are coincident to within a few tens of generations.

      And what is the mantra to chant when you hear the word "correlation"? All together now : "correlations are not, of themselves, evidence for causation."

      There's also no reason not to think that a large part of the effect of humans on the megafauna was by killing the young. They're easier, after all. And the adults will keep on producing more young. (Yes, there are mass kill sites, of megafauna of all ages ; but is that sort of operation the mean, or the most effectual method of population control?) But ... how does the arrival of the first humans in America lead to the (approximately coincident, to a few centuries) extinction of the megafauna in continental Europe where they'd been interacting with humans for hundreds of thousands of years? Just because it's on Discovery Channel, and it tells a nice, simple story (in 10 minute segments, between the adverts), doesn't mean that it's true.

      The "good cause" thing is just so laden with cultural assumptions. Are you really, totally happy that the mammoths are extinct? Smilodon? The cave bear? (Assuming, for the moment, that the "human overkill" hypothesis is correct, which I consider undemonstrated at this time.)

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
    17. Re:Does anyone know what the largest possible is? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I guess I don't know what "mostly terrestrial" means. That paper made it sound like they hung out in water up to their chest most of the time.

    18. Re:Does anyone know what the largest possible is? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've seen an estimate - made back in the 80s, mind - by a zoologist, that the largest size a (quadrupedal, non-water-supported) dinosaur could have been before its legs became too thick to avoid tripping over each other - is in the ballpark of 100 tonnes, or (as the editors helpfully rephrased it) one-quarter of a fully loaded jumbo jet.

      There may be more modern estimates, this one may be complete cobblers, but - yes, it has been thought about.

    19. Re:Does anyone know what the largest possible is? by Smauler · · Score: 1

      What I meant by "good cause" was that hunting generally is much easier with things we can easily hunt. Getting rid of stuff that can easily kill us is a good thing, even if it is difficult. Humanity also drove off loads of large carnivores, not to eat obviously.

      There's also no reason not to think that a large part of the effect of humans on the megafauna was by killing the young.

      I agree, and that could be the predominant means of humanity wiping out things like mammoths. However, there's no evidence for it. There is evidence for people killing adult mammoths.

      And what is the mantra to chant when you hear the word "correlation"? All together now : "correlations are not, of themselves, evidence for causation."

      Correlation _is_ causation a lot of the time. That mantra you chant is wrong. Correlation shows something going on that is connected between the two things. It may be caused by other things, but they _are_ connected in some way, otherwise there would not be any correlation.

  13. Late Cretaceous were difficult times for sure. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I can only imagine the poor dog working his balls into sweat to bury this bone.

  14. Exwifeosaurus by Tablizer · · Score: 1

    ...now that sounds scary

  15. My choice by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

    Newtasaurus Gingrichii?

    --
    The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
  16. Re:Dinosaurs what were they by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

    I just wanted to share a theory of mine about dinosaurs have you ever watched the Flintstones? How about ancient aliens?

    Dude! Pass me that joint and the Fritos, man!

    --
    The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
  17. paleontologists: prepare for the long tail? by Mister+Liberty · · Score: 1

    "(...) largest creature ever to walk the Earth have been unearthed (...)"

    If some words, manifestly "to this date" or something synonymous to them, are not
    missing here, then article's author should prepare to travel to Norway for imminent
    Nobel prize.

    1. Re:paleontologists: prepare for the long tail? by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      Personally, I'd blame the BBC's science journalists for that. Using too short a timescale is something that gets my geological ire up too, and many of my colleagues.

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
  18. Re:Dinosaurs what were they by Mister+Liberty · · Score: 1

    Funny that you mention Fred Flintstone.

    I was just thinking, 'bout an hour ago, about how Fred's 'car', to me, as a kid
    looked like (had the same shape as) the provice of Gelderland in Holland.
    I forget whether Fred's car was running to the left or to the right.

    So now I'm off to google & wikipedia, to do a comparative analysis of said
    province and aforementioned 'car', in order to finally put to rest a thought
    that's been a 'cognitive harmonic' to me for some 45 odd years.

  19. Re:not Another New one! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    More like Pokemon than transformers.

  20. Re:Advice to those who use Linux by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Tough men LOVE viruses.

  21. Cool down, false alarm. by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 1

    Don't worry guys, it is just some ancient dinosaur hardly 77 tons in weight and about six stories tall. It can never challenge the current holder of the title "The Biggest Dinosaur", Microsoft.

    --
    sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
  22. Charlie's moving up in the world... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    After this interview, Dr. Pol asked several laborers to check for Ghouls, then retired to his quarters for milksteak and jelly beans.

  23. Everyone can relax. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's only a category III Kaiju...

  24. Biggest integer yet to be found! by Kaz+Kylheku · · Score: 1

    You know, no matter how large a dinosaur you find, how can you prove that it's the largest?

    Not without digging up every cubic meter of the Earth's crust to some reasonable depth.

    1. Re:Biggest integer yet to be found! by gordo3000 · · Score: 1

      even then you can't, it's not like every animal (and we are limited to those with extensive bone structures) gets fossilized. If that were the case, fossils would be much easier to come across and much more complete.

  25. Mutant? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Any chance this is a one-off? Maybe a brontosaurus that happened to have gigantism? I understand they can do some DNA analysis and all, but I'm curious how a single bone find can lead to the implication of a whole new species.

    1. Re:Mutant? by RockDoctor · · Score: 1
      RTFA.

      They discovered, in a restricted area, around 150 bones from at least 7 individuals.

      Which dispenses with your last phrase as well.

      I understand they can do some DNA analysis and all

      A very small number of specimens have been found with collagen and traces of not-incompatible-with-dinosaur DNA. But they were in very fine-grained rocks (silt to clay grade), which tends to inhibit the drying of the material and it's access to oxygen.

      From the photos in TFA (which you evidently didn't R), the sediment is reddish and contains white fragments to several centimetres in size ; I interpret that (wearing my hard hat as a professional geologist) as suggesting a well oxidised sediment (from the generally red colour) with granules of carbonate which probably grew in the soil contemporaneously with the deposition and early taphonomy of the bones as they gradually fossilised - a caliche-like deposit. That requires reasonable movement of fluids through the sediment in order to bring the carbonate together.

      Both fluid movement and oxidation are bad for preservation of organic material in general, including DNA. I very much doubt that they'd get any ancient DNA out of this material. (They're not excavating in sterile garments, so modern DNA is a near certainty.)

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
  26. Bible already says! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Maybe the Behemoth that the Bible talks about. Dinosaurs or dragons were created 6 thousand years ago at the same time as everything else. Most destroyed in the worldwide flood 4400 years ago. If the earth were flatter there is enough water on the planet to cover everything over a mile deep. The mountains were formed during the flood. There is no scientific evidence for evolution. Watch Kent Hovinds movies on youtube.

    1. Re:Bible already says! by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      Watch Kent Hovinds movies on youtube.

      He's released a series on "How to fail at tax evasion and go to jail for it", has he?

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
    2. Re:Bible already says! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In reply to RocDoctor:

      He did go to jail for tax evasion according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_Hovind
      His views on Dinosaurs appear to be novel (creationism inspired).

      TL;DR:
      Apparently he was receiving $1M - $2M per year (though some of that went on staff wages).
      The government thought he was under reporting his income.

      I have no idea if this is correct but I suspect it is.
      Despite the opinion of some I have always found Wikipedia as good a place to get factual information as any.

      Best regards.

  27. Re:Happy Saturday from The Golden Girls! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Or camposaur.

  28. One bone to rule them all by Overzeetop · · Score: 1

    They do say that Jacob was the father of the 12 tribes of Israel - one bone for a whole new species, so to speak.

    --
    Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
  29. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 2

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  30. Does anyone know what the largest possible is? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You bring up good points but I have no idea how big some sauropods got. Remember, however, that sauropod bones were built to maximize strength and minimize weight. They are perforated by air cavities much like a bird. It is possible that they had bird-like air sacs and "blow through" respiratory systems, which, as in birds, are more efficient than the respiratory systems of mammals.

    As you know, early concepts of sauropods showed them as amphibious creatures spending much of their time in buoyant water feeding. On the other hand we know that sauropods laid their eggs on land and may even have tended their nests. Assuming that sauropods were amphibious, this means that extremely large animals would have had to leave and reenter their "preferred" watery habitats. In many, if not most cases, this would mean that these beasts would have had to traverse soft marshy or swampy ground. Of course, they wouldn't have done this in a bipedal mode. Likely they walked with one foot up and three on the substrate.

    I'm not finding any real data but even taken the largest known sauropod footprints [which may be overly large for artifactual reasons], it looks like each foot of the largest known sauropod would have exerted maybe 80 lbs/square inch of downward force. When walking, our human single-foot-one-the-ground exerts less than 6 lb/square inch of downward force. I think these relationships mean that large sauropods couldn't traverse swampy mud without becoming eternally stuck. In turn, this means that large sauropods couldn't live in water because they couldn't manage soupy beaches.

    But how could these animals drink given the fact that drinking water is in ponds, lakes or rivers? Maybe that's one reason for their long necks. They could stand back on dry [or drier] ground and fill their bellies.