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Does Google Have Too Much Influence Over K-12 CS Education?
theodp writes:Google recently announced Global Impact Awards for Computer Science, part of the company's $50 million investment to get girls to code. But Google's influence over K-12 CS education doesn't stop there. The Sun-Times reports that Chicago Public School (CPS) teachers are participating in a summer professional development program hosted by Google as part of the district's efforts to "saturate" schools with CS within 3 years: "The launch of CS4All [Computer Science for All], in partnership with Code.org and supported by Google, starts this fall in 60 CPS schools to try to bridge the digital divide and prepare students." And in two weeks, the Computer Science Teachers Association [CSTA] and Google will be presenting the National Computer Science Principles Education Summit. "Attendees at this event have been selected through a rigorous application process that will result in more than 70 educators and administrators working together to strategize about getting this new Advanced Placement course implemented in schools across the country," explains CSTA. The ACM, NSF, Google, CSTA, Microsoft, and NCWIT worked together in the past "to provide a wide range of information and guidance that would inform and shape CS education efforts," according to the University of Chicago, which notes it's now conducting a follow-up NSF-funded study — Barriers and Supports to Implementing Computer Science — that's advised by CPS, CSTA, and Code.org.
what about more trades like post HS schools?
We need to look at where we can fix and improve the post K-12 education system not push HS to build more into the old system.
Even if these initiatives weren't both limited and in partnership with other groups, just what would Google do that would be harmful to K-12 computer science education? Make everyone learn Go?
Now, if you want a real issue, go check on the Gates Foundation's influence on the much-derided Common Core.
(Disclosure: I work for Google, but this means less than you probably think)
disclaimer, i'm apple all the way, and don't particularly like google, but i can't hold my sarcasm back on this one..
What I don't get is why students are being taught JavaScript. Let's be honest, it's a shitty language. It was thrown together really quickly it a total rush. It's full of stupid design mistakes. These aren't just stupid design mistakes, they're totally unnecessary and totally unacceptable. They aren't the kind of mistakes that should have been made in 1995, and there's no reason why JavaScript is still so fucked even today. If we're going to teach our students a programming language, let's just use Python. Python is a smart language created by smart people. It isn't full of stupidity like JavaScript is. It isn't a language that embodies idiocy within each and every feature. Dump JavaScript. Teach Python. Do it because it's the smart thing to do, and because it'll be good for the students.
The programmer today is only as good as the car mechanic 50 years ago. Training should begin at an early age. Unless you want the US education system to continue its perpetual downfall.
Click here for answer.
These programs are born of a fundamental misunderstanding. The misunderstanding is that if you just teach enough CS basics and a bit of programming, students will flock to become developers and software engineers. That's just not how these professions work, nor any profession for that matter. You can teach some students maths on end, and all they will take from it is that they hate math. Teach some music as much as you want, if they lack talent they will not become musicians. So forcing CS education onto pupils, bombarding them with abundant knowledge about programming, CS and computers in general will achieve -- well, next to nothing. It will cost a lot though. Money that could be put to better use. For example, give it to startup entrepreneurs, people with real engineering skills and the drive to achieve something grand and new, but without the marketing wiz or the finances to make their business work. Instead, the money will disappear in a maze of hidden channels, not least into positions like the one advertised above ("Computer Science Instructional Support Specialist" -- this title alone makes me shiver)
Larry Page and Sergei Brin of all people should know that, at least it is surprising that they shouldn't.
No, google does not have too much influence. It just seems that way because few people had impactful influence before they started tossing money around. And the reason we are being flooded about it has more to do with the targets and a good PR department.
What we are seeing is largely to much PR. Influence in these areas seem to be lacking altogether else we wouldn't have these "look at us" stories all the time.
It's time schools went to free market.
Right now, as it stands, if you can't afford a private school for your child, your only real option is to put your child into the public indoctrination system. The system run by inefficient bureaucrats.
In my county, it costs an average of $12,000 per year, per child. That's for public education. Our most renowned private school is roughly $8,000 per year in tuition. This private school has a top level education. It is not uncommon for children to be held back when transferring to this school, as they have very high standards.
You want to make sure children get a better education? Let them use the money that is being spent anyway, to send their child to whichever school they chose.
This creates competition in the education system. Competition between schools will inevitably lead to competition between educators. Which will inevitably lead to better educations, and a greater variety of educational courses.
You could then offer grant money to schools with specific programs that met specific criteria (like a school that offers a CS class, that proves through some method, that children are competent to some degree, to meet whatever criteria laid out in the grant).
Or we could dump money into the hands of people that have already have shown they have no idea how to handle it.
I can just feel it now, my job prospects dwindling in the next 10 years. Well gotta start working on plan B.
Hmm, the humour and sarcasm seem to have been be lost on you.
Google has had a lot of bad press about diversity and tax avoidance recently. They are throwing some small change away to change the story and keep their stock prices high. It won't make any difference.
The whole idea of cut and paste programming and gamification to get kids programming is an hour is crazy and has never been shown to work. It's being used to simply to funnel kids into courses to data mine them or milk them for tutorial fees. A much more sensible approach would be integrating programming into the math syllabus. That means unsexy stuff like designing and distributing course materials,training teachers and funding schools. Not printing the number of lines "coded" on your website with a mouse as a marketing gimmick.
There's no point in teaching flow control to kids who haven't mastered maths, negative numbers and logic or can't comprehend the manuals. There's no point teaching algorithm design to people who haven't mastered algebra, abstraction, problem solving, exponentials and logarithms. There's no point teaching R to people who haven't mastered statistics and at the calculus that underlies it.
The idea that taken hold of everything being a skill you have to start learning by rote through flash cards as soon as you pop out of the womb so you will be the best ever at it is crazy. Kids need exposure to language, play and interaction but they don't need to start formal schooling until they turn 7. All the data shows that kids who start schooling at 7 do better. Formal education for kids younger than that is more about free state childcare than education. Kids have a lot to learn before they will get anything out of coding so they can supply industry with cheaper skilled labour.
and the weakest link - Goodbye
Come on, none of the articles go into the google hate. Considering how much google puts into the open source movement is grates that you use click bait titles like this while linking a bunch of article talking about the good things google is doing. If you don't want to report on google doing reasonable things then switch to bashing someone else.
Miserable post.
The teaching of clicking through Microsoft Word, Excell, and PowerPoint can calling it computer classes has done wonders so how could actually teaching coding be so terrible. Unless keeping the public computer illiterate is really the goal.
However, modern corporations have to much influence over everything.
My ism, it's full of beliefs.
One of my few successes in adulthood is remembering what it was like to be a kid. It helps give me perspective.
I grew up in the 90s and graduated high school in 2006. I remember computer science. It consisted of a 40-60 minute class with 1 minute of work. The exercise assigned to me would take 90 seconds to complete. Maybe 150 seconds if you were special ed.
Then you'd sit and play computer games for the rest of the hour and wait for the instructor to come over and inspect that whatever copy & paste or draw-with-the-turtle thingie you made was according to the assignment. Sometimes you had to play games from The Learning Company, or vocabulary games.
There was no learning GWbasic, java, python, shell commands, network architecture. There was no science. There was no learning. If you spent five minutes a day on a computer for personal entertainment as a six year old, you learned more than you would in K-12 computer "science."
It WAS a great excuse to sit in air conditioning for an hour a day.. if you went to a public school that didn't have A/C.
And every five years someone would donate 1 million dollars to the school, which would be used to buy equipment no one had the time nor inclination to set up, that would sit in a closet for five to ten years - only to be taken out once it was already obsolete. No change would be made to the curriculum.
My parents were poor but they had a shack house in a wealthy neighborhood, so I was going to schools that had a budget - not some ghetto dump. They were all the same.
I am ok with someone having ANY influence over the current state of computer science in the K-12 environment. You can't make it worse if you tried.
Are you sure that was intended to be computer science? Lots of schools basically have a "play with Excel/Word" class, but most don't pretend it's CS. There is such a thing as real HS computer science - such as the AP class listed in the TFS. APCS A was basically "learn Java" with a few sorts (insertion/selection to motivate, and merge to actually use) and (simple) data structures thrown in like a binary search tree - but APCS AB, which is now discontinued unfortunately, had real stuff - heaps, binary trees, maps and sets, some complexity theory, several additional sorts (heap and quick) and if I remember correctly even a few balanced binary trees. Pretty much what I did in my freshman spring "intro to data structures" class.
There's definitely real CS available for those who want it, though if the school doesn't have APCS or has a shitty version of it you may be better off doing your own thing or taking a class at a local college - most HS are actually perfectly happy to accept that for credit (and let you miss part of school to do it), by the way.
I have developed a truly marvelous proof of this comment, which this signature is too narrow to contain.
fuck trades and fuck unions.
fuck you joe dragon. Illiterate fuck.
Influence? They own what they fund. If you don't like it put money down.
Most of the schools that I am familiar with classify such classes as "computer science". My eldest son sat through all of his high school's "CS" classes, and got top grades in everything. He is barely computer literate. That is - he can install Windows on a machine. And, he excels at gaming.
The youngest son stated quite clearly all through school that the so-called "CS" classes were a waste. He spent his school hours on computers teaching himself. He would whip out that pathetic excuse of an "exercise", and instead of joining an online game, he would study programming. You know - something related to "computer science". I can claim credit for teaching that youngest son ABOUT Linux, but he taught himself Linux while sitting in front of a wasted computer at school.
A motivated student can't ever be held back. IMHO, these CS classes are designed to hold people back. Familiarize the student with Microsoft-centric programs, and stop education right there.
"Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
That they could be spending on PAC's and H1-B programs.
...ask the same about MS as it has been giving and teaching it's own closed software in schools around the world for decades?
Google is mostly supportig and teaching open standard and source.
If they do, it's because other large corporations have declined to become as involved as Google has.
these CS classes are designed to hold people back
I disagree. The CS classes (like most) are designed to be easy to teach (especially for a non-techie) and easy to grade. That's why they are as useless as most other classes.
I totally hate it when billion dollar companies dump money into education. I spend so much time turning the whole thing over in my head looking for the downside that its too much of a time waster.
But the tone of the article is correct. Instead of corporations investing and looking for ways to innovate, we should keep having substandard teachers, throw billions into testing because we don't know if the teachers are any good, and somewhere along the line we'll magically have good education by doing the exact opposite of what successful education programs around the world are doing.
If Google has some sort of undue influence over computer K-12 science education it isn't really their fault. I am glad that someone is stepping up to address this need and the fact that it is a need at all can be placed solely at the feet of the standardized performance tests that totally ignore computer science.