Harvard's CompSci Intro Course Boasts Record-Breaking Enrollment

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Harvard's CompSci Intro Course Boasts Record-Breaking Enrollment

Posted by Soulskill on Friday September 12, 2014 @07:59AM from the i-bet-you-liked-programming-before-it-was-cool dept.

alphadogg writes: Harvard College's CS50, the school's Introduction to Computer Science course for undergrads, has attracted about 1 in 8 students this fall — a new record for the school and yet another sign of just how hot this field is becoming for the job-hungry. Overall, 818 undergrads (or 12% of the student body) signed up for the challenging course this semester (PDF), and nearly 900 students are registered when factoring in graduate and cross-registered students. Topics on the syllabus include Linux, cryptography, HTML and JavaScript. David Malan, a Harvard CompSci grad, teaches the course.

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They will all get an A by i+kan+reed · 2014-09-12 08:06 · Score: 1

I seem to recall that's havard's policy, more or less.
1. Re:They will all get an A by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-12 09:23 · Score: 0, Flamebait
  
  Especially if they're girls. Girls girls girls. Females must learn how to code! Girls, gotta take CS courses! Girls, free money, just sign up for Intro to C. Here is 100 million dollars, just get the girls to sign up. Please, girls, the political correctness is out of balance. Girls girls. It's all about the girls because that's where the grants are. The money says girls ought to sit in server rooms. Wait, you're a boy and you want a BS in CS? Sorry, no scholarship for you. Do you have a sister?
  ENOUGH ALREADY, GIRLS DON'T CODE BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT TO, ANYMORE THAN BOYS WANT TO TAKE CROCHET CLASSES.
2. Re:They will all get an A by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-12 09:38 · Score: 0
  
  I (a man) would be welcome with open arms to a crocheting class. Women are not treated as equals in a CS course. Source: I taught CS classes.
3. Re:They will all get an A by Trepidity · 2014-09-12 09:48 · Score: 2
  
  Also true in actual careers like nursing fwiw. There's a nursing shortage (at least in the U.S.), and men are very underrepresented in the field, so nursing schools have been going out of their way to recruit men.
  
  --
  10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
4. Re:They will all get an A by JMJimmy · 2014-09-12 17:48 · Score: 1
  
  I need a job, I program.
5. Re:They will all get an A by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-13 02:31 · Score: 0
  
  Also true in actual careers like nursing fwiw. There's a nursing shortage (at least in the U.S.), and men are very underrepresented in the field, so nursing schools have been going out of their way to recruit men.
  Yet men who graduate in early childhood education cannot get jobs because only women are considered to be safe around children. So wise males avoid enrolling. Blatant hypocrisy in our culture.
6. Re:They will all get an A by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-15 09:11 · Score: 0
  
  If you women weren't treated as equals, then I have to ask: why did you allow it?
  Women don't want to code. What does it matter?
  Women don't make better programmers or bring something that men don't have. If my experience in undergrad and grad courses, a few women are really good, most are average and a few truly suck at it. Just like men.
  Women are near 50% in math and chemistry courses but avoid physics, engineering, econ, and CS.
  Why?
  I don't know and don't care because gender is irrelevant.
7. Re:They will all get an A by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-19 06:08 · Score: 0
  
  That is the worst reason to program.
  I have yet to meet a single person that is
  a) a competent programmer and;
  b) loves programming and;
  c) does it merely for a paycheck.
  Note that is different than you who obviously doesn't love the craft and therefor, in my experience, incompetent.
  People who program merely for money don't love it enough to constantly improve themselves, and instead is just good enough to not get fired.
  I bet you work at a huge company since your type can hide easier.
  That's why I don't hire programmers that don't have at least one personal, non-trivial project that they release as OSS or try to sell.
Linux, cryptography, HTML and JavaScript. by TechyImmigrant · 2014-09-12 08:12 · Score: 5, Insightful

>Linux, cryptography, HTML and JavaScript.
That's computer science?
What about algorithm complexity analysis, type theory, normal forms and well, computer science.

--
I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
1. Re:Linux, cryptography, HTML and JavaScript. by SirGeek · 2014-09-12 08:17 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  What about teaching "Data Structures and Algorithm Design", C/Pascal/Assembly Language ?
  Linux != Comp Sci ...
  This is why we have a generation of "programmers" who's solution to a problem is "throw more RAM into the system" instead of fixing their crappy code.
  
  --
  UPS Sucks
2. Re:Linux, cryptography, HTML and JavaScript. by i+kan+reed · 2014-09-12 08:19 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  Because it's 101 and not 201?
3. Re:Linux, cryptography, HTML and JavaScript. by Trepidity · 2014-09-12 08:19 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  It seems to be structured as kind of an intro to programming, which is one way CS101 classes (in Harvard terminology, CS50) are structured. Not really an intro to CS the discipline, but a broad intro to computers/programming in general for people who may or may not go into CS. Traditionally MIT took the opposite approach, but many schools took this approach.
  Fwiw, you can find the 2013 version of the curriculum here (it seems to have been also co-offered as a MOOC). It does seem a bit like a grab-bag of "random stuff in computers".
  
  --
  10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
4. Re:Linux, cryptography, HTML and JavaScript. by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-12 08:23 · Score: 1
  
  It's an introductory course. They'll get to the real stuff later on. Contrary to popular belief among theoretical computer scientists, almost no compsci students without hands on experience are any good. Like a blind man painting, you know.
5. Re:Linux, cryptography, HTML and JavaScript. by __aaclcg7560 · 2014-09-12 08:23 · Score: 2
  
  When my community college could afford to renew the Microsoft site licenese for Visual Studio, the CIS department switched over to Java for all the courses. The Linux instructor fought back by teaching C/C++ and shell scripting in his UNIX administration classes.
6. Re:Linux, cryptography, HTML and JavaScript. by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-12 08:31 · Score: 0
  
  Well, you typically don't learn all of computer science in one course, do you?
  There are probably different courses for Algorithms and Data Structures as well, I suppose.
  Howeverthe content does not sound so "elite" like one would think of Harvard.
  It's kind of a mixed bag of topics that do not fit together to well, and are also rather practical than theoretical.
7. Re:Linux, cryptography, HTML and JavaScript. by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-12 08:38 · Score: 1
  
  Eh...it's actually CS50, not even 101.
8. Re:Linux, cryptography, HTML and JavaScript. by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-12 08:40 · Score: 0
  
  "Intro to Computer Science" is pretty fucking pointless if you don't understand some of the basics of "Computers."
  You crawl before you walk.
  You walk before you run.
9. Re:Linux, cryptography, HTML and JavaScript. by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-12 08:40 · Score: 0
  
  From cs50.tv (copy paste, no edits):
  There were no lectures in Week 6 or Week 11 (because of quizzes).
  Week 0Binary. ASCII. Algorithms. Pseudocode. Source code. Compiler. Object code. Scratch. Statements. Boolean expressions. Conditions. Loops. Variables. Functions. Arrays. Threads. Events.
  Week 1Linux. C. Compiling. Libraries. Types. Standard output.
  Week 2Casting. Imprecision. Switches. Scope. Strings. Arrays. Command-line arguments. Cryptography.
  Week 3Debugging. Security. Searching. Sorting. Bubble sort. Selection sort. Insertion sort. O. .
  Week 4. Merge sort. Recursion. Pointers. Dynamic memory allocation.
  Week 5Stack. Heap. Stack overflow. Pre-processing. Compiling. Assembling. Linking.
  Week 7File I/O. Linked lists. Hash tables. Tries.
  Week 8Stacks. Queues. Trees. HTTP.
  Week 9HTML. CSS. PHP. SQL.
  Week 10JavaScript. Ajax.
  Week 12Life after 50.
10. Re:Linux, cryptography, HTML and JavaScript. by Matheus · 2014-09-12 08:51 · Score: 1
  
  (FIRST Rant: Since I wasn't asked for the damn CAPTCHA getting the message that I didn't confirm I was a human and throwing away my whole freaking novel of a post makes me think that the /. devs *really need to take this intro course again... grr...)
  Honestly some of that list fits in an intro course but with clarification.. I certainly hope that's not an exhaustive list tho! Everything on that list should be "as well as" not core topics.
  Linux: These kids, even these days, have a high probability of never having had worked (knowingly.. Android/MacOS/Bar gaming systems/ATMS/etc don't count) on Linux before. SO if that's the type of machines they will be working on (as was the case at my school) then the intro class will at least have to get their feet wet here... command line / ls / rm -rf / ;-) That might include a small amount of "What is Lunux and why do we care" but that's it.
  HTML: The class might also include a sampling of various technologies these kids will be using in the real world... let's face it most of them will end up mobile or web devs SO this is useful but should not be more than a small touch.
  JavaScript: See my comments on HTML but also this is being used more and more as a full blown language SO maybe that's what they are using as their training language? Even in my 4 years (long time ago) I saw the Intro classes go from Pascal > C++ > Java. I think continuing that > JavaScript is a poor choice but I've heard of worse.
  Cryptography: I *certainly hope this is 30,000 ft view and they aren't implementing it BUT getting the right mindset in early and even including calls to default libraries in some of their projects might not be a bad idea... beyond that it's meant for a much more advanced class.
  My impression of intro as provided by the one I took and how well it did the job is as follows: You have a first week of getting the students into the coding world which could include a lot of the above but most importantly guaging their prior knowledge and teaching them the environment/language they will be working in and getting started on their first code. After that you are teaching the starter algorithms to get their heads thinking right and giving them progressively harder programming tasks to make it useful and concrete for them. If the above 4 items are the entirely of the class then this better be a pre-Intro course (we had one where I went... CS majors didn't take it... History Majors did ;-) (hint it included time on the MS Office suite of products) leading up to a "100" class that is the real intro for CS.. else who knows... I didn't RTFA only TFS so maybe it was as usuless as typical and Harvard has the intro course their $60K/yr or whatever it is would promise!
11. Re:Linux, cryptography, HTML and JavaScript. by chubs · 2014-09-12 09:10 · Score: 1
  
  Linux, cryptography, HTML and JavaScript.
  That's computer science?
  Cryptography is. The rest isn't.
12. Re:Linux, cryptography, HTML and JavaScript. by johanwanderer · 2014-09-12 09:10 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  It's CS50. It's not even a 100-level classes. This is their way of saying, pay us $X for 3 course credits and see if you would even like to continue down this path.
  
  The title should be: 1 in 8 Harvard students hopelessly undecided about Computer Science.
13. Re:Linux, cryptography, HTML and JavaScript. by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-12 09:11 · Score: 0
  
  >What about algorithm complexity analysis, type theory, normal forms and well, computer science.
  That's for the Eastern Europeans and the Scandinavians. We are too busy in the Silicon Valley making social media Web-sites and picture sharing mobile apps.
14. Re:Linux, cryptography, HTML and JavaScript. by Beck_Neard · 2014-09-12 09:22 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  If you teach kids theory, people object that they're not being taught 'practical things'. If you teach them how to use popular software (like JavaScript), people object that they're not being taught enough theory.
  You can't win.
  
  --
  A fool and his hard drive are soon parted.
15. Re:Linux, cryptography, HTML and JavaScript. by chubs · 2014-09-12 09:26 · Score: 1
  
  But the course is titled "an introduction to computer science". Why then does the curriculum of the course not introduce the students to any topics in computer science (except, of course, cryptography). We're not saying an introductory course should go in-depth about any topic in computer science, but it should introduce the field.
  
  If I were a freshman and unsure if I should go into CS or CIT, I would want to take an introductory course for each and have them be sufficiently different for me to make an educated decision on which I would prefer.
16. Re:Linux, cryptography, HTML and JavaScript. by TechyImmigrant · 2014-09-12 09:31 · Score: 1
  
  So call it a 'programming' course. Computer science marginally overlaps with programming, but a programming course is not computer science.
  While we're at it, we could stop calling Computer Science a science and admit it's applied mathematics with silicon thrown in.
  
  --
  I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
17. Re:Linux, cryptography, HTML and JavaScript. by CODiNE · 2014-09-12 09:39 · Score: 1
  
  And like the old Nature vs Nurture argument, the answer is ... a bit of both.
  
  --
  Cwm, fjord-bank glyphs vext quiz
18. Re:Linux, cryptography, HTML and JavaScript. by Mike+Buddha · 2014-09-12 10:07 · Score: 1
  
  If you don't think Javascript is computer science, you either don't know Javascript or don't know computer science.
  
  --
  by Mike Buddha -- Someday the mountain might get him, but the law never will.
19. Re:Linux, cryptography, HTML and JavaScript. by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-12 10:29 · Score: 0
  
  The course has other stuff too, like data encoding, elementary structured programming, sort algorithms, elementary data structures and even some complexity analysis. But computer science without the computers is math, so if you want to see whether CS is for you, you should get to see what it's all about after all.
20. Re:Linux, cryptography, HTML and JavaScript. by __aaclcg7560 · 2014-09-12 13:05 · Score: 1
  
  Actually, my instructor was the dean of the department.
21. Re:Linux, cryptography, HTML and JavaScript. by NitsujTPU · 2014-09-12 13:43 · Score: 2
  
  I can shed some light on this.
  This course is an introductory course for non-majors. That's why it's not like "Intro to Computer Science."
  The big deal with Harvard's CS50 course isn't that everyone wants to enroll in computer science, but that it is being taught in a very unorthodox way. Students have the option of attending lectures or watching video lectures online. There is a great deal of supplementary online material. They have all night coding sessions with food and games which are sponsored by businesses such as Microsoft and Google.
  More info can be found here: https://cs50.harvard.edu/
22. Re:Linux, cryptography, HTML and JavaScript. by AthanasiusKircher · 2014-09-12 14:37 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  It's CS50. It's not even a 100-level classes. This is their way of saying, pay us $X for 3 course credits and see if you would even like to continue down this path.
  You obviously haven't bothered to look into Harvard's course numbering system (or credit system). Like just about everything else at Harvard -- from their wacko GPA system that had 15 points (instead of the usual 4.0) until recent years to the fact that they have a "concentration" instead of a "major" -- their course numbers aren't like elsewhere.
  If you want to see their CS offerings, look here.
  Basically, in Harvard's numbering system (which varies a bit by department), 0-99 are often undergraduate offerings, 100-199 are courses that could be taken by both undergraduates and grads, and 200+ are graduate-only classes. (Some departments with a lot of courses change the numbering so that the undergrad/grad courses start at 1000 instead of 100, and graduate courses start at 2000.)
  In many departments it's uncommon to take anything numbered 100 or above until your junior year (maybe earlier in CS, looking at their course offerings). So, saying this course is numbered 50 isn't saying much. In most departments, the generic courses for non-majors are often in the 1-10 or 1-20 range.
  And as for credits -- notice the catalog lists this as a "half course," from the old system where most Harvard students would enroll in courses that would last a full year (two semesters = "full course"). Harvard doesn't charge by the credit hour like a community college or state university might. They basically have a set tuition rate per semester and you're expected to take "four half courses" per term, five if you're ambitious. (You can take more -- generally for the same tuition -- but I believe it requires special overrides.)
  
  The title should be: 1 in 8 Harvard students hopelessly undecided about Computer Science.
  I have no doubt that some students are in fact taking this class to "try out" computer stuff, but it's hard to tell what those stats mean. Also, Harvard has a "gen ed" distribution requirement, and CS50 satisfies one of those distribution requirements. So, I'd imagine the bigger draw is "learn something in computers" AND "satisfy some stupid requirement," rather than "hmm... maybe I'll try computer science..."
  Anyhow, I know you (and most people here) didn't need to know that much about Harvard's wacko systems... but this post shouldn't be "+5 Informative" when it's based on wrong information.
23. Re: Linux, cryptography, HTML and JavaScript. by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-12 14:46 · Score: 0
  
  It's in there too. Source: I'm taking the class online at EdX. It's free.
24. Re:Linux, cryptography, HTML and JavaScript. by AthanasiusKircher · 2014-09-12 14:51 · Score: 1
  
  Also, by the way, I don't think we should derive any conclusions about "hot fields" from Harvard's enrollment numbers.
  Until the past couple years, one of the top two biggest courses at Harvard was "Justice," with enrollments upwards of 800 students. I don't think that was a signal that hoards of Harvard students were going to become political philosophers -- it just had a reputation for a good lecturer and satisfied the right distribution requirement.
  Similarly, a few years back another course with 800+ enrollments for many years was "First Nights," a course in the Music Department that revolved around premiere performances of a few major classical works. That clearly wasn't some sort of "sign" that the next "hot field" would be studying classical music.
  Harvard has a culture where courses have detailed public ratings, and "hot courses" generally happen because (1) they have a good lecturer, (2) they satisfy some university requirement that nobody wants to have to bother with otherwise, and (3) they give out a lot of A's.
  I can't guarantee that all three of those things are at work here, but I bet at least two of them are. The actual field of the "hot course" is almost irrelevant.
25. Re:Linux, cryptography, HTML and JavaScript. by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-12 15:59 · Score: 0
  
  he "fought back" against himself?
  do you mean he "overcame budgetary limits in order to support his language prejudices"
  or possibly "he misappropriated the scope of an administrative class, in order to teach what he loved, C++" ?
26. Re:Linux, cryptography, HTML and JavaScript. by phantomfive · 2014-09-12 17:59 · Score: 1
  
  Algorithmic complexity is both practical and theoretical. If you don't know it, you should learn it.
  
  --
  "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
27. Re:Linux, cryptography, HTML and JavaScript. by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-12 19:46 · Score: 0
  
  Yes, types are only a theory, and an unproven one. That's why I skip types.
28. Re:Linux, cryptography, HTML and JavaScript. by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-12 22:04 · Score: 0
  
  Computer science is a misnomer but the name started that way and so, we continue this misnomer. If I had my way, the subject would be a field of informatics and it would be more closely associated with the school of maths than the school of science and engineering.
29. Re:Linux, cryptography, HTML and JavaScript. by eclectro · 2014-09-12 22:42 · Score: 1
  
  You can't win.
  Students would be crazy to enter the CS field. You have employers demanding vast experience for "entry level" positions, and then that experience has to contain a long checklist of languages and methodologies. Then they face an employer who will always be looking for a way to find a cheaper H1B replacement for their American employee (regardless if they have less experience and knowledge). After that, a dozen years later their skills are "out of date" and job hunting becomes difficult - after their employer lays them off in a merger. Other employers want to hire the "hot shot" Doritos and Mountain Dew kid straight out of college.
  And after all that, when they hit their 40's, they're completely unemployable now and ready to be put out to pasture. As age discrimination seems to be a widely acceptable if not approved practice in a society where other minorities are given legal protections of one sort or another.
  Really kids, stay out of anything having to do with programming. Keep it as a hobby, you'll enjoy it far more.
  
  --
  Take the cheese to sickbay, the doctor should see it as soon as possible - B'Elanna Torres, "Learning Curve"
30. Re:Linux, cryptography, HTML and JavaScript. by TechyImmigrant · 2014-09-13 06:17 · Score: 1
  
  Yes, types are only a theory, and an unproven one. That's why I skip types.
  I don't like your type.
  
  --
  I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
31. Re:Linux, cryptography, HTML and JavaScript. by __aaclcg7560 · 2014-09-14 06:48 · Score: 1
  
  The dean fought back against the college administration. As a student, I was frustrated that EVERYTHING was taught in Java because it didn't require a site license. The job market then had too many Java programmers. (If Python becomes the new teaching language, we will soon have too many Python programmers.) I jumped at the chance of learning shell scripting and C/C++ during his Unix administration. I was bitterly disappointed that the assembly language class I wanted to take got cancelled in my final semester.
32. Re:Linux, cryptography, HTML and JavaScript. by superwiz · 2014-09-14 15:18 · Score: 1
  
  Really? I just thought that was something one picked at birth. No, really, is that even a form of knowledge? I just find these to be self evident. Often find it surprising that trivialities have names behind them when people start talking about them as fields of knowledge.
  
  --
  Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.
33. Re:Linux, cryptography, HTML and JavaScript. by superwiz · 2014-09-14 15:24 · Score: 1
  
  C and C++ no longer have any place in basic CS education. Sorry, we are at the point where it's more efficient to generate C than to write it. And since C++ is just generated C with really, really arcane syntax for this compile-time generation, C++ lost its purpose, too. There are more expressive (ie, easier to read) and less error-prone methods for generating C code now. It's finally becoming yesterday's news. The whole reason you see "resurgence" of C is that people are not writing it. They are generating it as an intermediate product. C is just text. And there are better ways to generate that text than the preprocessor or the C++'s template mechanism. C, however, has a major, major, major design flaw -- you can't assign to return values directly. So as a mechanism for expressing algorithms it has a natural inefficiency built into the language. It's not that there is no simple work around for it in C, it's that it needs a work around. It's over.
  
  --
  Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.
34. Re:Linux, cryptography, HTML and JavaScript. by superwiz · 2014-09-14 15:28 · Score: 1
  
  JavaScript (or any language in which string values and language symbols are interchangeable) is more important to know now than C. C can generated. And it's quickly getting to the point where that's all it's good for -- being auto generated. It is just text after all.
  
  --
  Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.
35. Re:Linux, cryptography, HTML and JavaScript. by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-15 06:02 · Score: 0
  
  C and C++ no longer have any place in basic CS education.
  
  You'll excuse us if some of us look at your assertion and conclude you're probably not qualified to make that statement.
  If you don't understand how pointers and return values in C works, it's not because of a limitation in C.
  I think most of what you've just said indicates your own lack of understanding, not anything insightful about the state of C.
36. Re:Linux, cryptography, HTML and JavaScript. by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-15 09:12 · Score: 0
  
  Wrong it is computer literacy.
37. Re:Linux, cryptography, HTML and JavaScript. by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-15 09:15 · Score: 0
  
  You obviously didn't learn enough to realize that C and C++ are completely different languages and should be approached as such.
  C++ isn't even a proper subset of C.
  There are few things that show up on resumes that scream clueless programmer as the people that put C/C++ on their resume. Those are instantly piped to /dev/null along with any that had PHP on it.
  If they have C on one line and C++ on another, they survive the initial cut.
38. Re:Linux, cryptography, HTML and JavaScript. by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-15 09:21 · Score: 0
  
  C++ generated C code about 30 years ago and hasn't for at least 25 years.
39. Re:Linux, cryptography, HTML and JavaScript. by __aaclcg7560 · 2014-09-15 14:45 · Score: 1
  
  You obviously didn't learn enough to realize that C and C++ are completely different languages and should be approached as such.
  You obviously don't recognize a shorthand expression for C AND C++. Different languages, sure. Separate languages, not entirely. Doesn't matter since I'm not a programmer by trade. I took programming to understand how software works on the hardware.
40. Re:Linux, cryptography, HTML and JavaScript. by superwiz · 2014-09-16 02:33 · Score: 1
  
  C++ is still (effectively rather than literally) generating C code at compile time. It's just not the step that needs to be taken directly. But all C++ symantics express nothing but generation of C code at compile time.
  
  --
  Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.
41. Re:Linux, cryptography, HTML and JavaScript. by superwiz · 2014-09-16 02:49 · Score: 1
  
  If you don't understand how pointers and return values in C works, it's not because of a limitation in C.
  Hhm... to ad hominem or not to ad hominem that is the question that preoccupies us. Whether it is nobler, in the mind, to suffer the slings of mud of outrageous statements or to take aim and by opposing them thus end them.
  The full amount of what you don't know and the years of experience that you lack to make the judgement that you made would take a volume of a flame war to fight out.
  C and C++ are about as relevant today as assembly. If you don't understand that C++ template mechanism and C pre-processor are nothing but compile-time text generation tools with arcane unwieldy syntax, then you have no place making judgement. There are better tools to generate the same code that both of these end up generating. The better tools capture what you want to express without being bound by the arcane syntax of C. And unless you think that direct bit banging and micro assembly are the "real" CS (hint: they are not -- they engineering rather than CS), your argument is moot.
  
  --
  Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.
42. Re:Linux, cryptography, HTML and JavaScript. by superwiz · 2014-09-16 02:50 · Score: 1
  
  You'll excuse us if some of us
  I guess I won't.
  
  --
  Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.
43. Re:Linux, cryptography, HTML and JavaScript. by superwiz · 2014-09-16 03:35 · Score: 1
  
  it's not because of a limitation in C.
  C most definitely has the limitation which C++ tried to address and failed. Return should have been a pointer to the address where the returned value ends up being copied when it's popped off the stack. Instead it's just a syntactic premature end of a function. Had it been a simple pointer to the place where the function's return value ends up being copied, C++ would not have been invented because it would have been unnecessary. I am talking about the semantic that is present in Matlab functions (where you can assign to the return value directly). C++ tried to address it by having "this" pointer, but it ended up mixing the data and the functions which operate on it. Which is why its syntax will never be simple.
  For example
  int a = f();
  should allow f to assign directly to the memory location where 'a' is. Like I said, there are obvious work arounds. You can pass the address of a to f() instead of doing direct assignment. But it break the semantics. And it reduces readability. And human time is more important than computer time, so readability is more important than slight loss of efficiency in execution.
  The problem is that once 'a' is not an int anymore, but is a complicated structure, you are stuck. And if you still don't think that's a problem, try implementing a fully-efficient (no redundant copying or inquiries) discriminated union in either C or C++. Good luck! Your easiest solution at that point is to just generate the code in some text generating language. But if each function had access to the point of return, it would be trivial. Oh, and discriminated unions are all of networking and all of data management.
  
  --
  Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.
44. Re:Linux, cryptography, HTML and JavaScript. by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-17 07:23 · Score: 0
  
  You failed.
  Why say C/Ruby because most of the Ruby language is written in C.
  If you are writing C++ code like it was C you are a failure.
  C/C++ denotes someone who is clueless.
  No it doesn't denote C and C++, if that were the case people would write C/Lisp/Perl/C++/Python when listing their favorite languages. They don't.
  I am glad it exists because it is a great way to cut down on the resumes with the knowledge that few competent programmers will get cut early.
  If you are not a programmer you have no business commenting and you obviously fail to understand how software and hardware interact.
45. Re:Linux, cryptography, HTML and JavaScript. by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-17 07:26 · Score: 0
  
  Bullshit
  You can teach a very useful intro to CS course without making the students touch a computer.
  You fail to understand what CS is.
46. Re:Linux, cryptography, HTML and JavaScript. by __aaclcg7560 · 2014-09-17 09:08 · Score: 1
  
  If you are not a programmer you have no business commenting and you obviously fail to understand how software and hardware interact.
  I guess an associate degree in computer programming, six years as a software tester and ten years as an IT technician doesn't count for anything.
47. Re:Linux, cryptography, HTML and JavaScript. by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-17 10:29 · Score: 0
  
  LOL
  Fuck no you amateur.
  An AA in "programming" does not make you a programmer. That is a small step above reading a programming for dummies book. A very small step.
  Your consistent posting of ill-informed idiocy means you are an idiot.
48. Re:Linux, cryptography, HTML and JavaScript. by __aaclcg7560 · 2014-09-18 02:54 · Score: 1
  
  An AA in "programming" does not make you a programmer. That is a small step above reading a programming for dummies book. A very small step.
  Good thing Uncle Sam paid for my AS (associate of science) degree with a $3,000 USD tax credit. I would never paid $3,000 for Dummies books. Oh, BTW, this is my second associate degree. I got my first associate degee in General Education after I graduated from the eighth grade and skipped high school.
49. Re:Linux, cryptography, HTML and JavaScript. by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-18 06:10 · Score: 0
  
  No, C++ compilers emit machine code.
50. Re:Linux, cryptography, HTML and JavaScript. by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-18 06:18 · Score: 0
  
  Yeah moron. You skipped HS but weren't smart enough to get at least a BS which is no big challenge.
  $3000? Like that means anything. That you think it does is hilarious.
  That was about half my cost of a single semester in grad school. Not that I had to pay it, since I taught undergrad classes for a 100% tuition waiver + a $1400 a month stipend.
  You get what you pay for and you paid for nothing of value.
  Two AA degrees is worth the same as one AA degree which is worth the same as no AA degrees.
  It just shows you aren't intelligent enough to go to a real school instead of a glorified HS, which is what CC are.
51. Re:Linux, cryptography, HTML and JavaScript. by __aaclcg7560 · 2014-09-18 06:37 · Score: 1
  
  That was about half my cost of a single semester in grad school. Not that I had to pay it, since I taught undergrad classes for a 100% tuition waiver + a $1400 a month stipend.
  I see what your problem is now. You went to grad school, graduated with a very small dick, and must beat up on someone else to compensate for your lack of rigor.
52. Re:Linux, cryptography, HTML and JavaScript. by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-19 06:35 · Score: 0
  
  Really?
  You showed that you have no clue about programming, computer and network security or how computers actually work and you rip on someone else that is more intelligent and educated than you?
  You should go get another AA to boost your cred.
53. Re:Linux, cryptography, HTML and JavaScript. by __aaclcg7560 · 2014-09-19 16:08 · Score: 1
  
  You showed that you have no clue about programming, computer and network security or how computers actually work and you rip on someone else that is more intelligent and educated than you?
  When I worked at Google in 2008, I had to demonstrate to a software engineer how to turn on his computer because his intelligence and education never prepared him for the real world. Most software engineers are really clueless when it comes to working with hardware.
  
  You should go get another AA to boost your cred.
  I'm working on the CompTIA Security+ certification for my government job as a security support specialist. After that I'll get my ITIL Foundation certification since I'm working for an ITIL organization. The next step after that is the Cisco Certified Network Associate (CCNA) and the CCNA Security certifications. Just because I have two associate degrees doesn't mean that my education is over.
54. Re:Linux, cryptography, HTML and JavaScript. by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-26 01:44 · Score: 0
  
  SEAS employee here (posting anonymously). I can confirm that David Malan, who teaches this course, has a rep for being very good and very interesting in the classroom. That's a large part of it right there.
more a reflection of what Harvard decides by Trepidity · 2014-09-12 08:15 · Score: 4, Insightful

Harvard gets far, far more applicants in every area than they can possibly accept to their relatively small student body. So shifts among disciplines and interests almost entirely reflect decisions on the part of Harvard admissions policies. They don't necessarily reflect shifts in either broader society or even the subset of society that applies to Harvard. It's possible they do, but it's also possible Harvard explicitly decided to accept more CS applicants for various reasons.

--
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
1. Re:more a reflection of what Harvard decides by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-12 08:29 · Score: 1
  
  Imagine you are in a dark room and have a bag filled with cubes, spheres and pyramids. You're instructed to pick ten cubes out of the bag, which you then do. Then the lights come on, and it turns out you've picked one red cube, one green one, and eight blue ones.
  Of course, it's entirely possible the lights at the admissions office were on all along, but it isn't necessarily the case that it was.
2. Re:more a reflection of what Harvard decides by Trepidity · 2014-09-12 09:22 · Score: 2
  
  Isn't it pretty explicit that the lights are on? Review of applications isn't some kind of blind-review process.
  
  --
  10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
3. Re:more a reflection of what Harvard decides by kruach+aum · 2014-09-12 09:45 · Score: 1
  
  In the sense that they had access to all relevant information, yes, the lights were on. In the sense that that information influenced their decision, the lights could have been off. The facts that predict future enrollment in intro to computer science are not necessarily the facts that weighed in the decision concerning admittance. Some of those facts probably were considered, others probably weren't.
4. Re:more a reflection of what Harvard decides by metlin · 2014-09-12 10:25 · Score: 1
  
  I am willing to bet that the average analytical skill and critical thinking ability of a Harvard freshman would far exceed that of most Slashdotters.
5. Re:more a reflection of what Harvard decides by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-12 11:07 · Score: 0
  
  sorry, you're wrong. My students are absolutely amazing at memorizing and regurgitating things. However, they're not any different, as far as I can tell, than where I went to grad school. Obviously had to post this as anon.
6. Re:more a reflection of what Harvard decides by metlin · 2014-09-12 11:10 · Score: 1
  
  Well, being from Harvard also, I disagree.
Computers and Computer Science by acscott · 2014-09-12 08:16 · Score: 1

What was that my Comp Sci friend was quoting, something about Computer Science is as much about computers as Astronomy is about telescopes?
1. Re:Computers and Computer Science by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-12 08:28 · Score: 0
  
  Would you agree that an astronomer who doesn't know how to properly use or debug a telescope is a bit suspicious though?
2. Re:Computers and Computer Science by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-12 08:49 · Score: 0
  
  Meaning, of course, that computers are important devices for a computer scientist to know about, and understand?
  Or were you trying to sound clever by parroting a dumb assertion that it's possible to be a good computer scientist without understanding what computers do, and how they work as a fundamental piece of your higher-level mathematical education that covers algorithms, complexity, and other advanced topics?
3. Re:Computers and Computer Science by khellendros1984 · 2014-09-12 08:51 · Score: 1
  
  That's true, in the theoretical sense. Algorithms can be described in English or in mathematical notation. Runtime complexity of an algorithm can be calculated by hand. Most often, we want a way to also evaluate those algorithms, to take measurements on their behavior, and to understand them more intuitively. Computers are useful for that, but only if there's have a way to give them instructions. It follows that a student must be taught the rudiments of programming to have an automated method to explore the properties of algorithms.
  
  This is analogous to the use of scientific instruments in astronomy. Everything can be done by hand (technically), but tools make things quicker and easier. They act as force multipliers to make more things practical to do in a shorter amount of time. For astronomy, that means that the astronomer doesn't need to be a million times closer to the thing they're observing in order to see it clearly. For computer science, it means that I don't need to evaluate a billion algorithmic steps by hand.
  
  --
  It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
4. Re:Computers and Computer Science by chubs · 2014-09-12 09:12 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  No. Meaning every good astronomer can use a telescope, but not everyone that can use a telescope is an astronomer. You really should know how to program to do computer science, but programming computers is not computer science.
5. Re:Computers and Computer Science by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-12 09:58 · Score: 0
  
  every good astronomer can use a telescope
  Are you suggesting that astronomers have some magical a priori knowledge of how to use a telescope, and they don't need to be taught? Or is there, somewhere in that "astronomy" syllabus, "Astronomy 101: which includes topics like, 'How to use a FUCKING TELESCOPE'"?
6. Re:Computers and Computer Science by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-15 09:28 · Score: 0
  
  Nope
  They have techs for that. All astronomers need is the raw data from the various types of telescopes. The vast majority of astronomers rarely touch a telescope once they graduate.
  My algorithms instructor was awful with computers but was an outstanding teacher.
  Alan Turing's phd adviser Alonzo Church is an important figure in Computer Science and despite dying 15 years ago he never knew much about computers.
7. Re:Computers and Computer Science by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-17 07:32 · Score: 0
  
  Edsger Dijkstra is the person who said that.
  A mathematician that understood more about CS than you will ever know.
  Nearly every useful algorithm came from Dijkstra or based on his work.
About Time The Market Got Hot by __aaclcg7560 · 2014-09-12 08:17 · Score: 1

When I went back to community collge to get an associate degree in computer programming after the dot com bust, everyone told me I was crazy as healthcare was the money major. I went to school for five years on a part-time basis from 2002 to 2007 while working full-time. I couldn't get classes at the beginning because they were full, and couldn't get classes towards the end because they weren't enough students. I became a help desk technician shortly thereafter.
The long term trends back then was that the baby boomers would retire and Southeast Asian IT workers would stay home over the next 30 years, making it difficult for American companies to find IT workers. The Great Recession delayed the inevitable by a few years. I had to compete with baby boomers for jobs when they should have retired and/or dropped dead. I'm looking forward to making more money as I get into security-related work.
1. Re:About Time The Market Got Hot by AuMatar · 2014-09-12 09:07 · Score: 1
  
  CS is for programming. Not IT and definitely not helpdesk. And not vaguely defined "security" jobs. If you want to program, there's a negative unemployment rate in some parts of the country right now and has been for a few years- there's more jobs than people if you have some skill. If you don't want to program or get a phd and do research, its a useless degree. Formerly IT included a lot more programming as systems were highly customized and home built. Now IT is cheap and getting cheaper, because all of the complex tasks are automated or scripted these days with a lot more COTS software. You still need a small number of smart people, but a much smaller team than the old days and not everyone on the team needs to be top notch. Expect that trend to continue.
  The other problem- you have an associates degree. Probably from a community college. That's a great thing to do if you're then transferring to a 4 year college to finish your degree. Its absolute garbage for getting a job- you have neither work experience nor the understanding of theory that a full degree should give you, combined with the utter lack of rigor generally associated with a lower college. Basically, it counts for nothing- nobody is going to hire you for hard programming with it, the jobs you are qualified for like simple web dev work would have hired you without it. You'd have been better off writing a portfolio of some simple web pages and apps that you could show off if you weren't willing to get a full degree.
  
  --
  I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
2. Re:About Time The Market Got Hot by __aaclcg7560 · 2014-09-12 09:44 · Score: 1
  
  You're overlooking one small detail: I never claimed that I was programmer. Having a background in computer programming allows me to better solve problems as a help desk technician, a desktop support technican, and now a security support specialist. Not only do I know how to put hardware together, I know how to put software together. A skill that is sorely lacking in most Fortune 500 IT departments.
  Who do you think will write the scripts? Not some CS graduate with a stick up his ass.
3. Re:About Time The Market Got Hot by AuMatar · 2014-09-12 10:02 · Score: 1
  
  So you don't want to join the highly lucrative job that requires your degree, but you want to join a job where the demand is decreasing and can be more easily outsourced. Not to mention- wtf does a "security support specialist" do? I have 15 fucking years in this field and I could only make a vague guess. A websearch for "define security support specialist" basically had 2 solid definition- one is a guy the sherriff's office was looking to hire that ran the fingerprinting software for booking, the other is someone who would be working at Guantanimo Bay. So you have a made up job title that means exactly nothing. Nor would anyone smart hire right into security in IT anyway- it's a complex field, its the position you graduate into after proving you know your stuff over a period of years, not an entry level position.
  If that's what you have a passion for, go for it. Of course I'd say the same thing if you wanted to be a professional soap box racer. But don't complain about your degree when you don't have a full degree, and when you're using it to try to get a job that doesn't actually exist, and to a position that's far above entry level in a declining field. You aren't having problems because of the degree, you're having problems because you're underqualified and over-entitled. Especially don't complain about the utility of the degree if there's other career paths that greatly desire that degree, are highly lucrative, but you don't want to do. That's your fault, not the field's.
  
  --
  I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
4. Re:About Time The Market Got Hot by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-12 10:55 · Score: 0
  
  So you don't want to join the highly lucrative job that requires your degree, but you want to join a job where the demand is decreasing and can be more easily outsourced.
  You just said he wasn't qualified with an Associate's, dumbfuck. And guess what, it's called DevOps. That's what he is going to do.. and what I currently do. Aka: systems programmer, not Java bitch boy. My background is more of the traditional compsci route, but I've worked with so many of you useless fuckers that you've got anal glaucoma: you can't see your ass doing anything useful.
  
  Not to mention- wtf does a "security support specialist" do?
  At my employer (40k employees), they make sure jerkoffs like you don't go off reservation.
  If only you were as smart as you think you are.
5. Re:About Time The Market Got Hot by AuMatar · 2014-09-12 11:34 · Score: 1
  
  Well, we just learned you don't know what a systems programmer is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S.... Pretty much the opposite of devops, which in and of itself is usually just an attempt by management to make devs work overtime in support roles instead of hiring more IT people (and usually a bad idea, but that's a side rant).
  
  At my employer (40k employees)
  This is supposed to impress someone? The more employees you have, the more deadweight you have, and the higher the probability that an individual working there is just that. The fact you need to state that rather than your accomplishments makes it 100%.
  
  --
  I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
6. Re:About Time The Market Got Hot by __aaclcg7560 · 2014-09-12 13:22 · Score: 1
  
  The only person complaining about my associate degree is YOU. I'm quite satisified with my second associate degree, which Uncle Sam paid for with a $3,000 tax credit, and making the college president's list for maintaining a 4.0 GPA in my major. (I earned my first associate degree in general education after graduating from the eight grade and skipping high school.) Perhaps you're trying to compensate for something, say, a lack of rigor?
  
  Not to mention- wtf does a "security support specialist" do?
  I work on a team of 20 security specialists responsible for 80,000 Windows systems. We each have 15 to 20 years of IT experience. About 10% of the systems don't patch properly, have broken antivirus clients, incorrect software versions, unauthorized software, and many other issues. We remediate (i.e., fix) 1,000+ systems per week. Information security is a growing field.
7. Re:About Time The Market Got Hot by AuMatar · 2014-09-12 14:27 · Score: 1
  
  So you're a sys admin who specializes in reghosting machines when the auto-updater fails? (Because actually spending the time to fix each machine would be a huge waste of resources over just ghosting a fresh image or rolling to a backup and reinstalling)? Someone needs to do it but I wouldn't give it a fancy title. Much less one with security in it- nothing in there has anything to do with security, its general administration stuff.
  
  --
  I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
8. Re:About Time The Market Got Hot by __aaclcg7560 · 2014-09-12 15:34 · Score: 1
  
  Fixing each system is a lot faster than re-imaging each system. That would be a huge waste of resources. Everything is done remotely in the background without inconveniencing the user. A typical fix takes 15 to 30 minutes. My team fixes 1,000 systems per week.
9. Re:About Time The Market Got Hot by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-12 15:53 · Score: 0
  
  What disingenuous cunt you are!
  https://www.google.com/search?...
  First result: http://www.cisco.com/web/partn... -- That title is, specifically, a Cisco certification.
  Second result: The reference to the sheriff's office you mentioned.
  Third result: http://www.simplyhired.com/sea... -- 31 jobs looking specifically for that title.
  The rest of the results on the first page of google results bring you to a host of job sites, to listings that seem to be hiring technical people - most with an emphasis on networking, which I can only assume means they're looking specifically for people with the aforementioned Cisco certification.
  So are you admitting that you - with all your big opinions about Computer Science and college degrees - don't know how to use Google? Or are you admitting that you're trying (and failing) to make yourself look smart by talking shit about someone else?
  Maybe your 15 years would be better spent listening, instead of sharing your ignorant-ass, retarded opinions with the rest of the world?
10. Re:About Time The Market Got Hot by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-12 15:55 · Score: 0
  
  Well, we just learned that you don't understand the term "DevOps," too, so I guess you're even with GP.
  I love it when a sysadmin gets all upset because the Dev guys turn out to be GOOD at automating him out of a job. What's the matter chum, struggling to keep up with the actual software engineers with your little bespoke bash scripts?
  
  The fact you need to state that rather than your accomplishments makes it 100%.
  And yet all you've offered up is your "FIFTEEN YEARS!" of experience? Curious, that.
11. Re:About Time The Market Got Hot by AuMatar · 2014-09-12 16:51 · Score: 1
  
  Sys admin? I'm a programmer. Don't have the temperment to be a sysadmin, I'd be miserable at it. I know exactly what dev ops is, I was in the room when a former boss said they were firing the sys admins and we were all now dev ops. It was a miserable experience all around. And that's exactly what devops is 90% of the time- its taking programmers and sticking them with the support job too. Maybe at some place once it worked differently and they really hired for a specific hybrid role- but don't kid yourself its the majority of the time. Usually its just the programmer who can most be spared from the real coding.
  
  --
  I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
12. Re:About Time The Market Got Hot by AuMatar · 2014-09-12 16:53 · Score: 1
  
  Ghosting takes minutes. Even doing analysis to figure out what's wrong would take far more than the entire process. And if you really have everything automated to the point it can be done in 15-30 minutes, then there's no human input at all- your job is a script that can run nightly on each machine, with 1 guy to update the files the script pulls.
  
  --
  I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
13. Re:About Time The Market Got Hot by AuMatar · 2014-09-12 16:59 · Score: 1
  
  Here's the top hits in order for me:
  Sherrif's office- http://www.teamdane.com/Securi...
  Simply hired- clicking through shows that nothing on the first page of results actually calls the job that- the first results are signal support systems specialist, Sr client support specialist, field technician support specialist, Mac Support Specialist, and a SOX compliance officer.
  Another link to Dane County
  Another job site, a similar mix of results none of which actually use that title, although these tend to match the word security rather than support specialist
  And finally a Cisco cert, for those who still give a shit about such things.
  And a glass door salary link which shows two people nationwide using that title both at USAA.
  Yeah, made up title.
  
  --
  I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
14. Re:About Time The Market Got Hot by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-12 17:38 · Score: 0
  
  Once again: so sorry you can't use google.
  http://lmgtfy.com/?q=%22Securi...
  Troll harder, fuckface.
15. Re:About Time The Market Got Hot by __aaclcg7560 · 2014-09-13 03:18 · Score: 1
  
  Re-imaging a system takes a minimum of four hours. You have to track down the location of the system. You have to browbeat the user into surrendering the system for most of the day. You may have to backup multiple user profiles (some systems have 200+ users and 50GB+ of data). The re-imaging process takes ten minutes. And then you have transfer the user profiles back, return the system to the user, and field phone calls for a month as the user(s) nitpick over the system as they believe you broke something.
  My job as a security support specialist is to fix the system after the automation had FAILED. Otherwise, the system won't communicate with the servers, won't get patched and updated, and becomes a security risk to the rest of the network. Maybe someday my team will get replaced by a code monkey. Maybe someday Microsoft will stop writing operating systems with spaghetti code and major vulnerabilities.
16. Re:About Time The Market Got Hot by AuMatar · 2014-09-13 13:43 · Score: 1
  
  Hey look- the exact same links I said in my above post, in a slightly different order. Likely because I hit a different google server today. Wow you are an utter idiot aren't you.
  
  --
  I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
17. Re:About Time The Market Got Hot by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-17 07:37 · Score: 0
  
  Then STFU and GTFO
  You little help desk job doesn't make you qualified to talk about CS.
  Come back when you can write a functional and maintainable non-trivial program or be able to design digital circuitry.
18. Re:About Time The Market Got Hot by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-17 07:42 · Score: 0
  
  2 associate degrees? Wow, how stupid are you that you can't get a BS in CS?
19. Re:About Time The Market Got Hot by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-17 07:54 · Score: 0
  
  "Security support specialist"?
  WTF?
  Getting meaningless certs(like Security+, CISSP) doesn't make one a security professional and I would bet a lot of money you don't even have those.
  I haven't met a single person who claims they are in network or computer security and didn't have at least a BS in CS that was any good. Most of the real network and security people have at least a MS in CS.
20. Re:About Time The Market Got Hot by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-19 07:23 · Score: 0
  
  BS
  When I was a grad student, part of my job was running the security lab. I could reimage the entire lab(about 75 machines) in less than 15 minutes.
  You are incompetent and inept, which is what people with multiple AA degrees are.
  At least get an AS degree if you are going to stay in the kiddie pool.
21. Re:About Time The Market Got Hot by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-19 08:14 · Score: 0
  
  We just learned that butt hurt AC is Creimer
22. Re:About Time The Market Got Hot by __aaclcg7560 · 2014-09-20 08:57 · Score: 1
  
  When I was a grad student, part of my job was running the security lab. I could reimage the entire lab(about 75 machines) in less than 15 minutes.
  Lab computers with NO USER DATA can be reimaged in 15 minutes. I have imaged 3,000+ brand new computers for various PC refresh projects, but transferring gigabytes of USER DATA between computers still take time. Users tend to get upset if their data goes missing.
  
  You are incompetent and inept, which is what people with multiple AA degrees are.
  So says the Anonymous Coward with lab experience and no real world experience.
  
  At least get an AS degree if you are going to stay in the kiddie pool.
  I have an A.A. degree in General Education (1994) and a A.S. in Computer Programming (2007). You can only have one A.A. degree but multiple A.S. degrees from the community college system. As for my A.S. degree, I made the president's list for maintaining a 4.0 GPA while working 40 hours a week as a technician and taking classes part-time for five years.
23. Re:About Time The Market Got Hot by __aaclcg7560 · 2014-09-20 09:08 · Score: 1
  
  I graduated from the eighth grade, skipped high school and got my A.A. in General Education in 1994. I became a software tester by accident when my roommate's company was hiring for a level-entry position in 1997. I went back to school in 2002 to get an A.S. in Computer Programming, which I finished in 2007 after taking classes on part-time basis and working 40 hours a week. Since this was a career transition, my second associate degree was paid for by Uncle Sam with a $3,000 USD tax credit.
24. Re:About Time The Market Got Hot by __aaclcg7560 · 2014-09-20 09:13 · Score: 1
  
  Sorry. I don't post as AC. I stand behind all my opinions.
CS50 is available online by parbot · 2014-09-12 08:22 · Score: 3, Informative

You can watch all the lectures online at http://cs50.tv/ .
1. Re:CS50 is available online by Lawrence_Bird · 2014-09-12 11:00 · Score: 1
  
  So .. in other words its a gut that you can sleep through because its all online anyways.
I am shocked! by 140Mandak262Jamuna · 2014-09-12 08:27 · Score: 1

I am shocked 7 out of 8 Harvard grads have not taken introduction to computer science.

--
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
1. Re:I am shocked! by __aaclcg7560 · 2014-09-12 08:29 · Score: 2
  
  You don't seriously expect English majors to read code?
2. Re:I am shocked! by 140Mandak262Jamuna · 2014-09-12 08:31 · Score: 1
  
  So every one of them would know how to calculate the left limit and right limit as x approaches zero for the function y = sin(3x)/x. But would still treat their computing devices as black boxes, learn enough to map to know what to do make it do something, but would not have a fundamental grasp of why the computer does what it does.
  
  --
  sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
3. Re:I am shocked! by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-12 08:53 · Score: 0
  
  Not sure why that should be an apparent problem or concern. I fly frequently - yet I couldn't build or pilot a plane. I routinely benefit from medical care - yet I couldn't perform heart surgery. I drive a car nearly every day - yet I couldn't build or repair one myself.
  Contrary to popular Slashdot-aspie opinion, understanding the deep internals of computers is not a requirement for daily life. A small degree of computer literacy is useful in most professional fields, but it is by no means a universal requirement or even universally worthwhile as a pursuit.
  I don't need to know how to design a processor to browse the web, type a research paper, or play Angry Birds.
4. Re:I am shocked! by chubs · 2014-09-12 09:21 · Score: 1
  
  Not sure why that should be an apparent problem or concern. I fly frequently - yet I couldn't build or pilot a plane. I routinely benefit from medical care - yet I couldn't perform heart surgery. I drive a car nearly every day - yet I couldn't build or repair one myself.
  Contrary to popular Slashdot-aspie opinion, understanding the deep internals of computers is not a requirement for daily life. A small degree of computer literacy is useful in most professional fields, but it is by no means a universal requirement or even universally worthwhile as a pursuit.
  I don't need to know how to design a processor to browse the web, type a research paper, or play Angry Birds.
  The parent doesn't claim everyone should know how to repair, design, or build their computing device, merely have a general grasp of how it's doing what it's doing. You do not own a plane. You probably don't need to worry about that. If you own a car, then yes, You really ought to know enough about how it works to perform routine maintenance (oil changes, etc). And if you don't have a general understanding of how your body works, there's probably a reason you have to go benefit from medical care so routinely (an apple a day keeps the doctor away, etc).
5. Re:I am shocked! by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-12 10:08 · Score: 0
  
  No, GP post quite specifically implied that people need some sort of "fundamental" knowledge of how the computer does what it does, and "enough to know how to make it do something."
  
  You do not own a plane.
  And perhaps I don't own a computer, and just use one at work. But GP argues that I need some sort of "fundamental" knowledge.
  
  If you own a car, then yes, You really ought to know enough about how it works to perform routine maintenance (oil changes, etc).
  Why should I know that? If I value my time for doing other things, why does it matter if I don't know how to change my own oil? This argument borders on pathological obsession - it is impossible to know how to do everything and how everything works in a modern technological society. Everybody draws the line somewhere, I guarantee you do, as well. If I value my time for something other than oil changes more than I value the $50 it costs me to pay someone else, why is that a problem?
  
  if you don't have a general understanding of how your body works, there's probably a reason you have to go benefit from medical care so routinely (an apple a day keeps the doctor away, etc).
  What a stupid load of tripe. If you think folksy, homespun bullshit like "an apple a day" eliminates the needs for regular checkups with a medical professional, you're a fucking moron.
6. Re:I am shocked! by Mike+Buddha · 2014-09-12 10:09 · Score: 1
  
  There are plenty of people in the world who will maintain your vehicle for a reasonable price. Same with your computers.
  
  --
  by Mike Buddha -- Someday the mountain might get him, but the law never will.
7. Re:I am shocked! by chubs · 2014-09-12 11:10 · Score: 1
  
  If you think regular checkups removes your responsibility to have a fundamental understanding of how eating a bunch of hydrogenated fat, binge drinking, smoking or simply having a sedentary lifestyle will affect your body, then feel free to die at 45.
8. Re:I am shocked! by chubs · 2014-09-12 11:17 · Score: 1
  
  There are plenty of people in the world who will maintain your vehicle for a reasonable price. Same with your computers.
  Yes, and so long as you either 1) don't rely on your vehicle or 2) always schedule your vehicle's problems for times and locations where such a person is available, then relying on them is great. However, if you are driving on a freeway and have your car overheat in an area where there is no cellular coverage (I know there are a lot of urban dwellers here who will never visit a place without cell coverage, but I live in a more rural area where it's spotty at best), and you can't even locate the radiator cap, much less figure out how to add fluid, then you are SOL. Everyone should know how to do basic troubleshooting on anything that they rely on. If an item breaking down is just a minor inconvenience, then it's fine to rely on 9-5 service centers. However, if the item breaking down will seriously disrupt your life or business, then assuming it'll always just work when you need it and giving it no further thought is just reckless.
9. Re:I am shocked! by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-12 11:23 · Score: 0
  
  "I have been roundly schooled, and this AC has demonstrated that I'm a fucking moron spouting nonsense. BUT! I'm going to try and appear intelligent and get the last word, because I'm a ridiculous Slashdot Asperger's case who thinks anybody who doesn't know everything about computers must be a dimwit."
  I'd suggest you spend some of that energy trying to learn the fundamentals of how to interact with your peers, and more importantly, your betters, jag-off.
10. Re:I am shocked! by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-12 16:03 · Score: 0
  
  always schedule your vehicle's problems for times and locations where such a person is available
  So we've gone from "you should be able to change your oil" -- routine, regular maintenance, to "you should be able to fix all your mechanical problems otherwise you're a fool"?
  Seriously, you can keep moving the goal posts if you want, but that doesn't make you smart, it makes you look like a fucking idiot. You know what I do if I'm somewhere outside cell coverage and I break down? I find a tow, tell them to take the car to the nearest service station, then find a nearby hotel with internet service and check my ass in and get to work. Miss a couple hours of productivity? That's okay, I can make it up pretty much any time and anywhere I've got an electrical outlet and an internet connection.
  I guess the difference between you and me is, my computer-related job pays me enough that dicking around with my car COSTS me money in the long run, meaning that it's cheaper for me to accept that paying someone to do my repairs while I get actual productive billable work done. I'm not saying you're dumb, but I am saying you're not that good if you can't get a better hourly rate than an auto mechanic.
Quotas by goose-incarnated · 2014-09-12 08:29 · Score: 1

Did they mention how many were women?

--
I'm a minority race. Save your vitriol for white people.
1. Re:Quotas by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-12 08:34 · Score: 0, Funny
  
  Why, have you STILL not found a girlfriend?
2. Re:Quotas by Bigbutt · 2014-09-12 08:34 · Score: 1
  
  Not in the .pdf. I am curious as well though.
  [John]
  
  --
  Shit better not happen!
3. Re:Quotas by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-12 09:13 · Score: 0
  
  Why, have you STILL not found an argument?
4. Re:Quotas by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-12 09:35 · Score: 0
  
  Good point, every educational institution that accepts federal money should be required to have a truly inclusive student body. A certain percentage of students in every class should be female, black, hispanic, gay, transgender, etc. based on national percentages. Unfilled slots can be taken by other students, but they would be forced to surrender that slot for an entitled student at any time. Within four or five years the huge, distressing gender and racial imbalances found in STEM and computer programming will be corrected. It all starts with the opportunities available in education.
5. Re:Quotas by konstans · 2014-09-12 10:12 · Score: 1
  
  What would be more interesting : Compare what percentage of women vs men that took cs50 decide to take the next class. Then compare what percentage of women and men drop the next class. - I have a feeling these sugary overview classes do little to encourage people to pursue real computer science in the long run because the support structure is not in place at the higher level. - If I am wrong, and the later classes have changed to encourage people to stay interested that would be a really big step in the right direction.
A liberal education includes computing by peter303 · 2014-09-12 08:54 · Score: 2

I dont think it the reason is purely vocational (jobs). Young people know computers run the world and contribute to the human intellectual enterprise. Larry Summers tried to strengthen the S&E requirement for a Harvard degree (he was in my MIT class) and the faculty rebuffed him. MITs required six S&E courses for a degree makes them more liberal (broadly educated) in my opinion than Harvard.

P.S. Computing is NOT one of the six MIT S&E requirements yet. But it comes up everytime the requirments are reviewed.
1. Re:A liberal education includes computing by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-12 09:46 · Score: 0
  
  Education teaches critical thinking skills and background in a given subject. A 'liberal' education includes a lot of social(ist) brainwashing on top of it.
2. Re:A liberal education includes computing by volovski · 2014-09-13 15:17 · Score: 1
  
  Is Larry Summers TOO BIG TO FAIL ? Economic council ? Quietly leaves ? Let the bailout and quantitative easing QE flow ....print, print, print. Larry summers should be a banker not ?
Question is - will they keep going? by ErichTheRed · 2014-09-12 09:06 · Score: 1

I'm assuming they're talking about the physical on-campus version of CS50 right?
I'm very slowly working through the online version of the course (2 little kids who don't sleep + nothing but crap on TV = bite sized chunks of academic goodness) and it's a really good intro. I guess my question is this - how many people are going into this thinking they're going to be the next iPhone app billionaire? How many people actually want to learn the fundamentals and build a solid knowledge base that will help them get and keep future employment?
I saw this same jump in enrollment in CS towards the end of the dotcom boom, and that was even before everyone was carrying around computers in their pockets. I'm a systems architect, and I've seen the products of the quickie certification courses for system administrators. Some people can do this job and others just aren't cut out for it. Unfortunately, everyone's chasing money. IT and software development are increasingly becoming commodity skills, salaries are dropping except in "hot" bubbly fields like mobile and big data, so those who want to stick around are going to have to really enjoy the work, as I do.
I'm not saying I don't welcome new blood - everyone could use a healthy dose of the logic and troubleshooting skills that systems administration and SW development require. But I don't know how many people are going to make it through the whole program when they see how much work it is at the 200 level and out in the real world. The good news for newbies is that there really is still solid work for those who want to keep their skills sharp...it's just harder to find and you're just not going to see the salaries you used to for a number of reasons -- offshoring and H1B are the most visible, but cloud computing is another big one.
1. Re:Question is - will they keep going? by __aaclcg7560 · 2014-09-12 10:09 · Score: 1
  
  I saw this same jump in enrollment in CS towards the end of the dotcom boom, and that was even before everyone was carrying around computers in their pockets.
  I went back to school beween 2002 and 2007 on a part-time basis while working full-time to learn computer programming. The market for IT classes was still hot and most classes had waiting lists in 2002. Healthcare became the new money major that everyone chased after. When I graduated five years later, all my required courses for graduation were cancelled as they weren't enough students and took them as independent study classes. Back then everyone had laptops in their backpacks.
Its not registering but passing that matters by Koreantoast · 2014-09-12 09:06 · Score: 1

The challenge isn't registering for the course but actually passing the course. My undergrad used an equivalent Computer Science intro course as a weed out course for the entire college of engineering. Did a pretty effective job of it too.
Not sure if troll but.. by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-12 09:11 · Score: 0

Did anyone look at the PDF's properties?
$ pdfinfo course_enrollment_statistics_icg.pdf
Title: C:\db_scripts\admin\dat\course_enrollment_statistics_icg.pdf
Creator: SQRP/6.2/PC/Windows NT 4.0/Oct 29 2001
Producer: PDFlib 3.03 (Win32)
CreationDate: Fri Sep 12 16:34:00 2014
aaaaa... what? O_O
1. Re:Not sure if troll but.. by Mike+Buddha · 2014-09-12 10:12 · Score: 1
  
  Eastern time zone, Doctor Who.
  
  --
  by Mike Buddha -- Someday the mountain might get him, but the law never will.
2. Re:Not sure if troll but.. by packrat0x · 2014-09-12 10:53 · Score: 1
  
  Did anyone look at the PDF's properties?
  $ pdfinfo course_enrollment_statistics_icg.pdf
  Title: C:\db_scripts\admin\dat\course_enrollment_statistics_icg.pdf
  Licensee used to create PDF
  
  Creator: SQRP/6.2/PC/Windows NT 4.0/Oct 29 2001
  Software used to create PDF
  
  Producer: PDFlib 3.03 (Win32)
  CreationDate: Fri Sep 12 16:34:00 2014
  aaaaa... what? O_O
  
  --
  227-3517
Having wasted a lot of time hiring... by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-12 09:26 · Score: 0

FTFY: "almost no compsci students are any good." The understand neither computers nor science, and also happen to have an irrational perspective that they can program, when, blatantly put, they can merely regurgitate code bits they memorized in school.
Full course available online by plsuh · 2014-09-12 09:34 · Score: 4, Informative

Folks,
My son took the course last year as a senior in high school via iTunesU.
https://itunes.apple.com/us/co...
It's also available on EdX.
https://www.edx.org/course/har...
Heck, I took it way back thirty-odd years ago. :-)
Also, here's a link to the original article in the Harvard Crimson:
http://www.thecrimson.com/arti...
--Paul
how basic ? by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-12 11:07 · Score: 0

It all depends how deep the delve into the many aspects.
An intro class covering a wide specturm of all the things 'computer science' might not really get very far with any particular part.
Assignments you can google the answers to also might not achieve the results more than just basic understanding even if the students have to do some programming.
attrition by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-12 11:17 · Score: 0

if it's anything like my first few comp sci classes, attendance will drop from 800 to about 80 in the first few weeks
How is this computer science? by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-12 12:55 · Score: 0

This sounds more like a computer literacy course.
Bubbles 101 by Tablizer · 2014-09-12 19:51 · Score: 1

They should take Economic Bubbles 101. In the past whenever there was a spike in CS enrollment, a bubble burst. We had the vid game bubble in the early 80's leading to the "ET cartridge landfill", the AI bubble that popped at the start of the general '91 recession (unemployed Lisp programmers are a scary lot), and then the Dot Com bubble.

--
Table-ized A.I.
Materials look good by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-12 20:29 · Score: 0

A friend of mine did this course remotely a few years ago. He asked me to take a look at the materials and see what I thought. They are 100% excellent. The writing is beautifully lucid. Basic concepts are included along with an introduction to programming. I only wish my introductory course all those years ago had been half this good.
Women in CS by Etherwalk · 2014-09-13 04:08 · Score: 1

I (a man) would be welcome with open arms to a crocheting class. Women are not treated as equals in a CS course. Source: I taught CS classes.
They are in many CS classes. My undergrad found significantly more retention of women in CS when women were also teaching the class.
It's not that it's computer science... by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-13 04:22 · Score: 0

I'm in a computer science program in Michigan. Before and during my years at college I've listened to the entire lecture series at least once and listened/watched bits and pieces at other times.
It isn't that this is a computer science course. The credit has to go to Prof. Malan who keeps the class hopping and is a good lecturer. My classes have all been pure boredom in comparison. My assignments, a joke. Prof. Malan gives both easy versions and hard versions of the assignments without giving any extra points if you complete the hard assignments. The assignments are not the usual program hello world... although that might be in there. I encourage anyone interested to watch the course and take a look at the assignments.
If you're a professor teaching intro to computer science, please, for the love of cs, look at the assignments and either use them or something like them. You'll make every one of your student's lives *better*.
Is this 100-level class a required class? by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-13 07:43 · Score: 0

My not-Harvard college required a 100-level intro to computers class for everyone - it was how the tiny comp sci department justified its existence - they showed them a few little things and did a multimedia project, not anything we'd call computer science that involved actual discrete math or anything. Sounds about like this survey class.