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Australian Police Arrest 15, Charge 2, For Alleged Islamic State Beheading Plot
The Washington Post reports (building on a short AP report they're also carrying) that "[Australian] police have arrested 15 people allegedly linked to the Islamic State, some who plotted a public beheading." According to the Sydney Morning Herald, of the arrestees, only two have been charged. From the Washington Post story: “Police said the planned attack was to be “random.” The killers were to behead a victim and then drape the body in the black Islamic State flag, according to the Sydney Morning Herald. ... Direct exhortations were coming from an Australian who is apparently quite senior in [the Islamic State] to networks of support back in Australia to conduct demonstration killings here in this country,” Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott said at a press conference, as the BBC reported. “So this is not just suspicion, this is intent and that’s why the police and security agencies decided to act in the way they have.”
Gotta do more than an insane passenger on a Greyhound bus does to another passenger to really shock me at this point.
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
While the IS stuff is rather a hot news item, I do not agree that slashdot is really the place for it. One of the reasons I look at Slashdot is to get a nice newsfeed without 5 items per day about wild muslims.
Of course the poor polls, the terrible budget, the scandals, the deaths in custody, the lies of the Abbott government have absolutely nothing to do with the Prime Sinister's current attempts to take us to war.
Nothing at all. Nope. Nu uh.
Oh look, a shiny!
I goto Slashdot to read news geared towards my technical and science interest. That information and the underlying discussions are critical for my career and my peers. WTF is this slobbering junk being posted on here? Is Slashdot racing to be another Internet news wh@#$ site?
No matter what anyone thinks about surveillance, etc., these asshats were arrested and prevented from doing their thing. Were I the leader of Australia, I'd turn them over to the law of their original country of origin, stating they have lost their Australian citizenship (if they began citizens) by dint of plotting against Australians. If the countries of origin will not take them, line them up and shoot them for conspiracy. Most governments would dearly love to just shoot the extremists but shy away because of political correctness. The only thing extremists like these asshats understand is a sword or a bullet.
Conspiracy to commit a crime has been illegal for a very long time.
I can't speak for Australia but in the US we've had "Conspiracy to commit..." laws on the books for sometime now. How is that different?
From the Sydney Morning Herald article:
"I dunno, I got a lot of anger," he said. "It's a war on Islam just because we grow our beards. They want to label us as a terrorist, or supporters of IS, whatever, that's up to you."
As long as the more stable regional powers refuse to directly confront the extremists, it becomes very easy for this view to continue.
Go on, citizen, stamp the vote card. R or D, your choice.
I can't make any connection between this story and Slashdot's niche. Maybe I should go to the Drudge Report for technology news?
Or they may have taken some steps toward actually performing the act. It might not just be a thought crime.
Perception is the thin dividing line between reality and fiction.
let's have a massive disproportionate reaction!! you know.. lots of fear mongering and maybe we can invite more surveillance!!
just remember.. we need to reserve these blissful over-reactions for only 'threats' that involve the terrorist-boogey-man... if we reacted this way to comparable threat-per-capita non-terrorist criminals, we would run out of resources in about a week. (plus, the whole surveillance thing would be harder to jam down the masses throats)
Hmmmmm...should I?
Ok, you have been warned.
Since it's in Australia, wouldn't it be a bebodying?
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
Not sure about Australia, but there are lots of crimes that deal with the planning of a crime as a crime.
- Conspiracy to Commit Murder
- Uttering Death Threats
- Criminal Conspiracy
- Aiding and Abetting (helping someone after a crime, but not actually involved in the crime)
In some places simply carrying a gun while committing a crime, even if you had it in a bag and never took it out, is a crime.
The issue is where does simple intent become criminal intent? Joking to a friend that you will kill them for pulling a prank on you is different than threatening to kill someone that you are in conflict with.
The issue deals with public safety. Would you rather have a bomb threat stopped before the bomb goes off, or wait until afterwards?
Not sure how Aussie law varies, but in the USA, conspiracy to commit a crime is itself a criminal offense, even if the intended crime has not been committed yet. This isn't the same thing as 'thought crime' (which usually ends up being when someone is accused of thinking bad things, therefore they should be punished more severely than the evidence supports), because this had gone past the idle thought stage into the coordinated planning and resource acquisition stages.
While I fully understand the philosophy of not apprehending someone until either the very last moment before a crime or after a crime has been committed, I don't think that sort of patience in this case would be beneficial for anyone. A single person is likely to get a variant of stage fright before doing something significantly more illegal than they had previously, but a small group is likely to sustain its course on peer pressure even if most (on rare occasions, all) participants doubt their previous decisions.
If there's enough real evidence to lock these guys up, go for it. But I am concerned that this may degrade into the same sort of prosecutorial nonsense that happens in politically motivated cases in the USA (Nothing illegal happened, but we found evidence that you once might've said something different than what you said to the court, you're found guilty of perjury!).
the "islamic state" is the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant. ISIS removed "Iraq and the Levant" from its name and began to refer to itself as the Islamic State, so for anyone who doesnt dive headfirst into whatever "foreign conflict" the US is interested in this week, theres that.
ISIS seeks the establishment of a caliphate, a type of Islamic state led by a group of religious authorities under a supreme leader (caliph) who is believed to be the successor to Mohammed. Thats fine. Many other countries in the middle east are governed in terms of the Qur'an. Heck, we divided up the middle east for the better half of 45 years into various citystates based on the misplaced concept of manifest destiny, which finds its origins in Christianity. Israel is governed as a Jewish state and believe me, if you arent a birthright Jew your options for public services and housing are severely limited. The problem with ISIS is that it rejects the political divisions established by Western powers at the end of World War I in the Sykes-Picot Agreement as it absorbs territory in Syria and Iraq. Then again the United States basically ignored Palestine when it pulled israel from its magical sky god book and transported displaced Jews into it after WWII. Historically our response is to bomb the everloving snot out of anyone who disagrees with American anything but it cant work against a sustained, strategic effort. in short, Arabs are Muslim, and extremism preys on those who have become determined with nothing to lose.
If Australia wants a peek into the exact reason this keeps happening, its because of our foreign policy. Iran and Iraq are only the most recent that come to mind but this extremism only flourishes because of more than 50 years of americans, under pretexts ranging from anti communism to the carter doctrine, fucking with middle eastern countries. We tried to overthrow the palestinian freely-elected government, hamas, and when it didnt work, israel entered a 2008 land war and simply murdered their elected political officials. we overthrow countless governments and prop up dictators in the region that serve out interests while casting average arabs and persians, mostly muslim, into torment and strife. We choose who governs in syria by funding rebel groups, we determine if and when an Egyptian president stays or goes by funding military leaders and ensuring coups proceed as planned. Our problem is that we are completely blind to the fact that while we control political leadership across the region, we have forever lost "the hearts and minds" as george bush so eloquently phrased it, of the very people we we claim to help by bringing our special brand of democracy.
This is very controversial but ill say it anyhow. Osama Bin Laden had some, not all but some, reasonable requests of the US government in response to the terrorist event on 9/11 that we could have implemented along with domestic security measures that would provide a reasonable, but not perfect assurance, of our security. Instead, we chose to dump 3 trillion dollars into a 15 year campaign of scorched earth across afghanistan, and in the process created more terrorists. we dumped a portion of that cash into Iraq, murdered their elected leader (whom we supported during George HW Bush and whom was willing to negotiate a surrender and truce) and watched as sectarian violence killed millions. That was the democracy we brought. and in the wake of Iraq, we have the exisence of a militant group that not only rejects western democracy, but has slammed hard right into religeous extremism because after failing all else, most members are content with trying a nuclear option having exhausted their resources. Maybe it is allah punishing them, maybe its not, maybe its all arbitrary but at least its something, and so far the americans hate it so it must be correct.
Good people go to bed earlier.
See, it's so fashionable that they even want to do it in the Aussies. Those Islamic hipsters!
Australia has a great garbage disposal system right off their west coast. Just toss these fuckers into the sea and the Great Whites will make them disappear.
All you have to worry about is PETA getting upset over feeding toxic wastes to the sharks.
When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
If I was a member of a spy/security agency who wanted more than anything to wipe away the last, feeble laws protecting the privacy and freedom of my country's sheeple, this is precisely the kind of operation I'd set up. All it would take is a few words whispered in the right ear.
The most idiotic of the Muslim fanatics would jump on the idea with glad little cries, and the usual gang of fascists would gleefully portray the descent into a police state as the ultimate expression of First World freedom and security. And the sheeple would be lining up to flush away their rights.
Mission accomplished.
I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.
No, you are an idiot. Thinking about killing someone is not a crime. Planning to do it is. Planning is not a "thought experiment" it is tangible steps toward committing a crime.
Human nature? Yes. People naturally tune out to the horrible and try to move on.
RadioLab had a nice piece on the topic called "In The Dust Of This Planet"
http://www.radiolab.org/story/...
Sentence them to be force-fed delicious pork products from scantily clad Jewish lasses while strapped to a gurney.
Captcha: distress
They have only thought about it. So they are being prosecuted for a thought crime.
It's both a pity and a blessing that Orwell didn't live long enough to see the geek in full flight.
The organization and planning of a crime, the recruitment of others to assist you, is more than thought, it is action.
Let me inform you that prompting the mods to mod you Insightful makes you look like a complete douche.
In college we plotted the death of Prof Reddenburg in detail. He taught electric fields. Nobody actually did anything and he retired shortly thereafter, leaving the class in the hands of a non senile teacher.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
...they beheaded to jail.
If Abbott lost his head? http://www.theguardian.com/wor...
you had me at #!
Random killing and terrorism is nothing new; even in Australia. Indeed the whole focus of the 'high' terror alert has been the lone-wolf attack. Everyone admits that it will be impossible to find self-radicalized terrorists. Instead, the police find a flash-mob terror-cell.
But arrested doesn't equal charged with a crime. That only 2 were charged, shows that months of investigation couldn't identify who was doing what. These wannabe terrorists had to be arrested at some time. But several talking-heads are getting face-time before a camera this week.
You mean harass airport passengers for a week? Let's all remember that next week Tony Abbott is going to demand unlimited powers for the police forces. Unfortunately, the leader of the opposition rolls over and wags his tail every time Mr Abbott shouts "Look, terrorists".
Muslims are infuriated, claiming that they are the true victims. Muslims are very upset about the arrests, saying they were dishonored. Muslims are protesting, carrying signs that say "Raids Terrorize Woman and Children."
Muslim community apprehension after raids leads to 'snap protest'
> Wassim Doureihi, a prominent member of the group, told the crowd that the community was deeply upset by the raids.
> "What would be your reaction if your home was raided and your women dishonoured?" he said.
http://www.smh.com.au/national/muslim-community-apprehension-after-raids-leads-to-snap-protest-20140918-10iupz.html
Is this not what the line "to the shores of tripoliiiiiiii" in the song refers to? IIRC the US navy then went and kicked the towelheads' asses. And frankly, they were asking for it.
It's true I tell you, feller at work's next door neighbour read it in the paper.
Bill? is that you?
From what I can tell, there is no evidence of a conspiracy yet. Just communications with someone who gave an order to start randomly killing people that had not been prepared for or carried out.
So I'm not even sure it's a bono fide conspiracy. Hopefully they find some evidence and clear this up.
Which is something of a shame, because The Wild Colonial Boy was a good song.
Just planning or speaking about heinous crimes is enough to get you nickes, again, as it should be.
No it will not. One person planning a crime, even bragging about it, is not conspiracy. It could just be a fantasy. Lots of people imagine ways of killing someone, but never do it. The crime is conspiracy, which means more than one person planning it together. To charge one person acting alone, he would have to have gone beyond planning, e.g. purchasing bomb ingredients.
It will be secret courts with secret evidence so that the perps can be convicted without the role of the state in entrapping them being brought out...
Donald 'Duck' Dunn: We had a band powerful enough to turn goat piss into gasoline.
Well now we know *what* the NSW Police were spending their money on Finfisher licenses for.
My ism, it's full of beliefs.
I recommend Police to use fMRI to solve these cases
Casteism
Power attracts the corruptible. Suspect any who seek it. --Frank Herbert
Casteism