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Only Two States Have Rules To Prevent Cheating On Computerized Tests

New submitter Williamcole sends news that in many U.S. states, educators will begin administering standardized tests on school computers this school year. Unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately, for the sneakier kids), only two states have codified regulations to prevent cheating and make sure the tests are secure: Oregon and Delaware. According to a new report (PDF) from American College Testing (ACT), the other states aren't doing enough to prevent keyloggers, transmission of test materials, or even teachers going in afterward to change a student's responses. They also warn that the kids will likely find ways to access the internet while taking the test, letting them look up answers as needed. Even the rules in Oregon and Delaware have weaknesses ACT recommends strengthening before testing begins.

95 comments

  1. Using the Internet to Look up Answers! Tut Tut! by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The odd thing is, after succeeding at exams and leaving education with a glowing set of grades, they'll get a job in which if they refused to use the internet to look up answers, they'd be fired.

    --
    I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
    1. Re:Using the Internet to Look up Answers! Tut Tut! by PhrostyMcByte · · Score: 1

      The odd thing is, after succeeding at exams and leaving education with a glowing set of grades, they'll get a job in which if they refused to use the internet to look up answers, they'd be fired.

      This. I have a Stack Overflow tab open up as a pinned tab.

    2. Re:Using the Internet to Look up Answers! Tut Tut! by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      Ideally the examination would involve a test of the student's ability to utilise their knowledge through some form of project. In practice this is impractical - coursework requires a substantial amount of examiner's time, and that means expense. Simple exam papers can be marked almost automatically. They are also legally safe, because the standard can be set down in absolute terms: Do this, get a mark. A more subjective evaluation would be subject to all manner of appeals and a great many students suing the examination board claiming (rightly or wrongly) that they have been discriminated against for one reason or another.

    3. Re:Using the Internet to Look up Answers! Tut Tut! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Standardized tests are testing students for dogma and facts, not knowledge though. The goal seems to create docile slaves that accept whatever authority tells them. Anyone who critically think for themselves, even by researching their opinions, will be severely punished for it.

      The irony is that this is exactly the opposite of what the current technology-economy is requiring from graduates.

      Captcha: toiling

    4. Re:Using the Internet to Look up Answers! Tut Tut! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      If you can't get value out of Stack Overflow, you're probably worthless.

    5. Re:Using the Internet to Look up Answers! Tut Tut! by buddyglass · · Score: 2

      I'm not sure there's a good way to test basic knowledge while accurately simulating the real world. For instance, vocabulary (analogies, etc.) would be out, unless you ratcheted the time allowance down low enough so as to preclude looking up the definition of each word. Questions that test students' knowledge of simple algebra would be out; they could just plug them into an online equation solver.

    6. Re:Using the Internet to Look up Answers! Tut Tut! by buddyglass · · Score: 1

      Yeah. Total disagree. The tests aren't perfect, but they test skills that are useful in the "current technology-economy". I think of test scores as being necessary but not sufficient. That is to say, barring specific disabilities that complicate test-taking (e.g. dyslexia), someone who scores poorly on the standardized tests probably isn't going to be wildly successful in today's "technology-economy". Someone who scores highly may or may not be successful, but it's not guaranteed.

    7. Re:Using the Internet to Look up Answers! Tut Tut! by Bite+The+Pillow · · Score: 2

      This is only insightful for a myopic subset of the population being referenced.

      Make a list of professions where this is the case, and one where it is not the case. Even removing the ones where your grades are not relevant, parent post applies to a minorit.

    8. Re:Using the Internet to Look up Answers! Tut Tut! by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 2

      Fortunately the knowledge required in school tests is very rudimentary, to the extent that it seems to make perfect sense to me to ask for it - so that these people, once they get a job, would have at least a faint idea what to look for on the Internet in the first place.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    9. Re:Using the Internet to Look up Answers! Tut Tut! by SuperSlacker64 · · Score: 1

      Mod this up. Some of the most insightful things I've read about programming have come from answers on Stack Overflow (or were linked to from there).

    10. Re:Using the Internet to Look up Answers! Tut Tut! by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 1

      >Fortunately the knowledge required in school tests is very rudimentary

      Um, basic calculus isn't rudimentary. It took centuries for mathematicians of exceeding smartness to work it out.
      Once the idea was out there, people ran with it but you cannot claim the basic idea is rudimentary.

      --
      I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
    11. Re:Using the Internet to Look up Answers! Tut Tut! by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      It's rudimentary compared to the totality of knowledge you'll be required to work with in the workplace (unless you're flipping burgers, of course).

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    12. Re:Using the Internet to Look up Answers! Tut Tut! by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      they'll get a job in which if they refused to use the internet to look up answers, they'd be fired.

      And which jobs would those be?

      The only jobs I can think of where that would apply would be those where your responsibility is for reporting events that take place on the Internet. e.g. "timothy", "samzenpus" and "soulskill" might potentially be subject to such sanctions.

      If you're talking about other sorts of jobs, e.g. software coding, then the most effective tool might be to look for appropriate code on the Internet, but surely your employer's metric is going to be "can she do the job?", not "how does the job get done?" ; if you pass the first test, few employers I know of would give a flying shit about the second test.

      Actually, I'd revise that last bit - copying code from external sources certainly has the potential to expose the company to charges of plagiarism and/ or IP theft.

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
    13. Re:Using the Internet to Look up Answers! Tut Tut! by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 1

      >And which jobs would those be?

      Any engineering, legal, IT, programming, design, science or other creative task where being correct matters.

      --
      I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
    14. Re:Using the Internet to Look up Answers! Tut Tut! by RockDoctor · · Score: 1
      Well, I work on the borderline between science, design and engineering. If the answers in my business were on the internet anywhere, then someone, somewhere would be getting seriously fired (black-listed internationally too) for breaching commercial confidentiality.

      If you're talking about reference data ... well, I carry colour reference charts in my work bag ; micrometers and other size-references ; PDFs of standard forms for recording the raw data that I collect ; PDFs of published papers defining how to do particular (algorithmic) tasks ... all very standard stuff. Why look it up on the Internet when you've got the definitive document with you already? I'd guess a lawyer would have a library of major cases in his specialism ; medics the standard protocols for their specialisms. If you're looking for "the correct answer" for a specified task, then by definition you're also looking for data that doesn't change very often. When was the last revision to Ohm's Law? 1860-odd? When was the last revision to the minimum curvature method for calculating a wellbore survey? (1972) Standard methods don't change rapidly - because engineering, science, the law and many other disciplines are cumulative, and they depend on standards. You may have more of a point for "design", but if you're talking about the engineering parts of a design, then you're rapidly back onto stock parts and calculations (stiffness of a beam, qualities of a material) which don't vary often.

      A popular trope on /. is "ohh, text books cost so much!" Well what a pity - my colour charts cost nearly £200 per set and I have to replace them every couple of years because they wear out. Being "right" (and being able to document your procedures to demonstrate that you're "right") does have cost.

      Working at the border of science, engineering and design, I generate several hundred times more data than I consume, and could perfectly well do my work without internet access (allowing intr a net access for communications to the client on the other side of the world ; or at least telephone contact, which is why we carry several Iridium systems, in case the satellite link goes down). This gets some of the new trainees (a completely new one, every month ; as green as the grass) a bit upset when they discover they've not got the communications they grew up with. But there's no business case for more provision - 1MBPS shared between 100 people is more than adequate.

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
  2. Or how about... by darkain · · Score: 4, Interesting

    We do away with standardize testing. "No child left behind" has become "Every child left behind", because those that are great at particular skills are punished in our education system for being ahead of others.

    Just yesterday I was chatting with a student in a programming class. She was complaining that she got in trouble for using language features that were "not taught yet" in the class. And this is exactly why the United States is falling behind in science and technology compared to other countries, because people are punished for self-education and innovation within our "education system"

    1. Re:Or how about... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You mean, No Intelligently Designed Child Left Behind.

    2. Re:Or how about... by tlhIngan · · Score: 2

      We do away with standardize testing. "No child left behind" has become "Every child left behind", because those that are great at particular skills are punished in our education system for being ahead of others.

      Standardized testing is older then NCLB. SATs, ACTs, etc., are all exams students take because there's no way to normalize school marks otherwise. I mean, if you're a university, you can't rely on grades alone to figure out if the student is good (or what they claim as extracurricular activities) Grade inflation happens and even in the same school one class might have a teacher that always scores higher than another. (Or, as everyone knows, which classes to take to guarantee an easy A).

      So they've been using standardized tests to produce a normalized academic mark to which other qualities are weighed.

      Heck, I even remember doing the whole Iowa Test of Basic Skills way back in the 90s too in middle/high school.

      Of course, I advocate MORE standardized tests (with grades that matter) - I see 3% per grade level as an appropriate weighting. So elementary schools it barely counts, but middle school and high school it starts to be worth a lot which reflect that in real life, no matter what you do, there's often a major test you have to pass. Be it in university with final exam weightings of 50% or more (the ones that weigh less typically have a "must pass final to pass course" rule). Or trade schools where you have to take the exam to get your certificate.

      I also advocate publishing the grades as a list of numbers, both by class and school so parents can compare their child's result against the rest of class, and their class versus other classes at the school and in the area to see if their child is falling behind, or the class is falling behind, or the entire school. And to raise heck when it happens. (Socioeconomic reasons fall apart if two schools at the same level do vastly differently)

      Naturally, teachers unions hate the idea of accountability, so they oppose standardized testing at any level. Every kid's a flower and special in their own way. Heck, here some schools have been forced by teachers to do away with marks or letter grades, just a simple sentence on a report card. (Nevermind "no-fail" policies that don't let you assign a mark of 0 for something not handed in...).

    3. Re:Or how about... by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      Mary Beard has written an excellent article about the pros and cons of standardised testing (unfortunately, I have the version in her book, so don't have a link to the original handy). The problem with standardised testing is that you need a mark scheme that can be applied evenly by a load of different examiners. This effectively limits you to 'this essay must make 5 of these points:' sorts of thing, rather than 'this essay must demonstrate knowledge of the subject and make coherent arguments'. For example, in a university essay I'd have no problem with making 'the student must tell me something that I didn't tell them first' a requirement for the top grade, because I expect good students to read additional material beyond the lecture notes. It's impossible to set that in a national exam, not least because the examiner has no idea what the teachers told the students in set of scripts that they're marking. This means that in a standardised exam, you can test whether the student can memorise things and, for science subjects, whether they can apply knowledge to problems with well-known solutions. You can't easily test creativity or reasoning ability.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    4. Re:Or how about... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The problem with standardized testing isn't the test, but the tendency to "teach to the test". One of the best teachers I had in high school was my AP Chemistry teacher. Unlike other AP courses I took, we never saw an AP-style question until we took the exam. He taught chemistry and expected us to be able to handle the test format, not really worrying too much about precisely what chemistry would appear on the test. His students tended to do well on the AP exam.

      NCLB and related policies that highlight standardized test scores, have the effect of teachers not teaching content and teaching test taking skills instead, even though that is counterproductive. I don't have a good solution, but the current policies are not it. Personally, I'd argue that schools spend far too much time on measuring student learning instead of actually teaching.

    5. Re:Or how about... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      because those that are great at particular skills are punished in our education system for being ahead of others

      I'm going to stipulate your claim. Your response to the misuse of test results is to end the testing? Why would you not, instead, want to deal with the misuse?

      she got in trouble for using language features that were "not taught yet" in the class

      Got in trouble with whom? The standardized test didn't have and issue with her; it is inanimate. Since you failed to specify who or what was displeased, a teacher seems the most reasonable guess. Somehow, inside your mind, the application of a standardized test is at fault for the poor judgement of a teacher?

      This whole story is disturbingly absurd; cheating is cheating. How is the media used for testing relevant? Am I to believe that a student is immune to any consequences of cheating because some lawgiver somewhere hasn't specifically outlawed cheating on some new medium?

      If that's the case then wow... fuck all of you and the fucked up world you've built. Each day I am reminded in so many small ways how wise I was not to bring children into this twisted nightmare.

    6. Re:Or how about... by wisnoskij · · Score: 1

      Grade inflation happens and even in the same school one class might have a teacher that always scores higher than another.

      SO? Universities/etc. can still work out who knowns what using different methods, they just have to look at more than one single number; which ultimately leads to a better understanding of the individual, not less. Have you seen a study that compared the predictiveness of SATs to HS grades in college success, barbecue I have and HS grades won hands down.

      Loads of countries do not use any kind of standardized testing to normalize school marks, and they get along just fine.

      Add to that that we have had standardised testing in America for a long time and have yet to see any study show any effect except a negative one. Every study I have every heard of that concerns standardised testing is that, at the very least we have no reason to believe you they are good at predicting success. And that the tests existent seems to retard the learning ability of all who will and are taking them.

      --
      Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
    7. Re:Or how about... by buddyglass · · Score: 1

      You sound like a guy I had in my discussion section when I was TA'ing an intro Computer Science course. (Taught in Pascal). There were a handful of questions on one of our exams that asked the test-taker to write some code. He wrote his in C, because he never actually bothered to learn Pascal syntax. We gave him zero points. Guy was a third or fourth year E.E. student who was just taking the intro C.S .course to pad his GPA.

      Point being: your acquaintance's teacher would probably (can't say for sure) welcome him or her exploring new aspects of the language on his/her own. However, when working on exercises designed to highlight a particular language concept (possibly a fairly simple one) it's not acceptable to pull in more advanced concepts that completely obviate the concept being taught.

      For instance, if a question asks you to use a for loop to do something N times and you instead call some library method that does the same thing without using a for loop (i.e. probably the better solution in a real-world scenario) you haven't answered the question correctly. It is designed to test whether you know how to write a for loop, not whether you know how to solve that trivial problem in a novel way.

    8. Re:Or how about... by khallow · · Score: 1

      The problem with standardized testing isn't the test, but the tendency to "teach to the test".

      The problem here is what would the schools and teachers that "teach to the test" do, if the test wasn't there? Answer: nothing. They have already demonstrated that they only do things, if there is some level of accountability attached to it. Now standardized tests may not be the best way to provide that accountability. But it's not the tests that are forcing teachers to do nothing else.

    9. Re:Or how about... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ha Maybe the teacher didn't got there also. She maybe as punished for surpassing the teacher.

    10. Re:Or how about... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "not taught yet" in the class

      That is nothing new. I had the same thing happen to me in the late 80s in basic, pascal, and math classes. So much for reading ahead and testing out of the class...

      2 states may have 'laws'. But *ALL* schools have 'your caught you fail'. Whether they enforce that or not...

    11. Re:Or how about... by Nkwe · · Score: 1

      Just yesterday I was chatting with a student in a programming class. She was complaining that she got in trouble for using language features that were "not taught yet" in the class. And this is exactly why the United States is falling behind in science and technology compared to other countries, because people are punished for self-education and innovation within our "education system"

      What if the point of the lesson was to solve the problem within a set of constraints? While I am not fond of our education system's apparent drive to the least common denominator, I don't think this example is a good one to support the argument of the United States "falling behind".

      For argument's sake, let's say that the lesson was to sort some data and the class had not yet covered the language's (or standard library) sort function. If the student used the built-in sort function instead of implementing the sort algorithm by hand, the student would not be demonstrating that they had learned the algorithm or understood the fundamentals of sorting. In addition, if the real requirement was to implement a sort that would run in other environments that don't have built-in sort, "being creative" and using out of scope features, would be a fail.

      An exceptional student would have done the lesson the proper way (as instructed and within the constraints given), and in addition provided an alternate solution using the extended or not yet taught language features. This would demonstrate understanding of the solution with both the constraints given and what would be possible if the constraints were not in place.

    12. Re:Or how about... by SeaFox · · Score: 1

      Just yesterday I was chatting with a student in a programming class. She was complaining that she got in trouble for using language features that were "not taught yet" in the class.

      That is sad. I did the same thing in junior high. We had a small unit in a computer apps class on programming in Basic. I did some research in the library to come up with idea for a group project program and ended up making a game. I used RND to randomize the outcome of a choice, a function that had never been covered in class. That and the fact the teacher could tell I wrote the whole game myself (since i was a lousy typist the other guys typed up what I'd handwritten) earned me a grade of 115% of the available points.

    13. Re:Or how about... by Bengie · · Score: 1

      He wrote his in C, because he never actually bothered to learn Pascal syntax. We gave him zero points.

      Crap class anyway. All good classes only require pseudo-code. Discrete Math for programming class, all answers and projects could be written in any language, even made up ones, aka pseudo-code. Just be prepared to explain the Big-O of your code and the exact steps required for accomplish your code. Even my advanced C Algorithms class did not require C code for test taking, only projects that got handed in, because they needed to compile.

      There was an intro to programming class, which was technically a requirement for graduation, but I just went to the department head and he removed it as a requirement for me. That was fun explaining to to the Office of Registrar at graduation time.

    14. Re:Or how about... by ncy · · Score: 1

      Just yesterday I was chatting with a student in a programming class. She was complaining that she got in trouble for using language features that were "not taught yet" in the class. And this is exactly why the United States is falling behind in science and technology compared to other countries, because people are punished for self-education and innovation within our "education system"

      ^this!!! similar thing happened to me, where a question on an assignment wasn't clear so i took the wording literally and went out of my way to research how to answer it. even though the answer i put down was correct, because they didn't have it in their answer key, the TA marked it as wrong, and the head TA ignored me when i inquired what was so wrong about my answer. i wouldn't have had a problem if it was just some random exercise in class, but each assignment contributed a rather significant portion of the final grade. i felt like i was being punished to do more than the norm.

    15. Re:Or how about... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I guess each university could just have an entrance exam, instead of relying on a standardized test.
      Care to cite some of those countries that don't have one?
      All the countries I've ever lived in have had one.

    16. Re:Or how about... by Mr.CRC · · Score: 1

      Well then, there's no problem caused by top-down control and institutionalization that can't be fixed by more top-down control and institutionalization, eh?

    17. Re:Or how about... by buddyglass · · Score: 1

      We could have required only pseudocode on the exams, but if so then we would have had to "standardize" on a particular grammar of pseudocode or it would be near impossible to grade students' answers. You'd have students arguing about what their own peculiar version of pseudocode "means". So, since all the programming assignments were required to be done in Pascal, we just adopted "Pascal" as our pseudocode for the exams. We weren't picky about syntax unless a question was designed to test syntax. If you forgot a semi-colon or curly brace you didn't get points deducted. Also, this requirement (Pascal) was communicated clearly prior to the exam. Engineering guy just figured it didn't apply to him, I guess.

    18. Re:Or how about... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oxford and Cambridge have their own.

      They're in England, if you didn't know.

  3. How is this new? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Ever seen tests run in China? India? MASSIVE cheating on an UNBELIEVABLE scale.

    Run Riot!

    1. Re:How is this new? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Came here to say the same thing. Maybe US scores will look better if states allow as much cheating as in Asia.

    2. Re:How is this new? by jjhues7676 · · Score: 1

      My son goes to a university for an engineering degree. He tells me the foreign students are absolutely stupid. The sad thing is the professors just push them through the program so the school can continue getting out of country money.

    3. Re:How is this new? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Diploma mill. My cousin took CS at our state Uni, and his major shared a lot of 101 classes with computing engineering, and on the first day the teacher said 50% of your are going to drop out in the first month and 50% of the remaining are going to fail. He was correct. But this is why freshmen who made it past their first semester were getting calls from Intel, AMD, etc asking what their plans were for after graduation 3.5 years down the road. At least it was nearly free for my cousin because of in-state tuition rates. Out of state paid a lot, upwards of $40k/year, and classes were always full.

  4. I'm sorry... by Netdoctor · · Score: 1, Insightful

    ..why do we need the government regulating school tests?

    What are you going to do, bring little Johnny up on federal charges for cheating?

    1. Re:I'm sorry... by Required+Snark · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Because without some form of regulation, some dickhead is going to start selling grades. Just like without regulation, you would end up being poisoned by the food you eat. If you don't believe me, just look at what's going on in China. There was a case last year where someone got caught recycling cooking oil from a sewer. Chinese with more money to spend by imports from Taiwan and Japan, since it is much less likely that they will get sick.

      I'm fed up with dolts like you. You live in a place where the government keeps your day to day life reasonably together, and then all do is whine. I hope your mother goes to a medical clinic where someone cheated on their grades, and she ends up dieing. Better her then me, or anyone I know. That is is only way a shithead like you will ever start paying attention.

      --
      Why is Snark Required?
    2. Re:I'm sorry... by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      Because otherwise schools would have an incentive to cheat, or to take a lax attitude towards teaching, in order to inflate their grades. Or to go with an examination board that has a reputation for really easy questions, so any idiot can score an A.

    3. Re:I'm sorry... by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      Lax attitude towards cheating, rather. I need more caffine.

    4. Re:I'm sorry... by jonbryce · · Score: 1

      We need to have the government regulating school tests so that they are a consistent standard, and people can rely on them as a measure of the student's ability.

    5. Re:I'm sorry... by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 1

      That can be fixed by the testing agency having its own rules as a condition of taking the test and as a condition of administering the test. They can even set those conditions in a rather draconian manner. If an organization which is administering a test is caught cheating on the test, all scores ever taken through that organization are thrown out and the organization can no longer administer the test. This rule would need to only apply to tests taken after it was implemented.Obviously any one who took the test who was caught cheating would have their score thrown out. If they were the one enabling others to improve their scores, they would never be allowed to take the test again.

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    6. Re:I'm sorry... by Vellmont · · Score: 1


      Because without some form of regulation, some dickhead is going to start selling grades. Just like without regulation, you would end up being poisoned by the food you eat.

      Ok, so AFAIK states have never had regulations about cheating in school. Schools themselves handle this. So by your statement, we should have rampant for-profit cheating going on RIGHT NOW. But yet I've never heard of that.

      How can you explain this lack of teachers selling grades on a mass scale?

      --
      AccountKiller
    7. Re:I'm sorry... by Vellmont · · Score: 1

      Oh, and I'd also like to submit the idea that people such as yourself, who think that the solution to every problem is making a law are just as destructive as the people who think that the free market is going to control everything.

      --
      AccountKiller
    8. Re:I'm sorry... by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 1

      FYI: China has laws against recycling sewer oil. The solution isn't more regulation.

      I love how you wish harm upon those who disagree with your political opinions. Great way to show tolerance, there.

      "the ability or willingness to tolerate something, in particular the existence of opinions or behavior that one does not necessarily agree with."

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    9. Re:I'm sorry... by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      Just like without regulation, you would end up being poisoned by the food you eat.

      But libertarians keep telling me that you can just go to a different eating establishment the next time!

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    10. Re:I'm sorry... by cascadingstylesheet · · Score: 1

      Highlighting the problem doesn't magically make government the solution though. That's the fallacy of the false alternative. "You either favor a federal anti-cheating regime, or you don't care about cheating."

      I'm sure the feds would bring all the efficiency and efficacy to it that they've brought to the rest of education ... oops.

      Because without some form of regulation, some dickhead is going to start selling grades.

      Which never could happen with government at the helm, of course. Because human beings become angels when they go to work for government, and "corruption" is just some imaginary concept, probably invented by the evil Koch brothers.

    11. Re:I'm sorry... by cascadingstylesheet · · Score: 1

      "the ability or willingness to tolerate something, in particular the existence of opinions or behavior that one does not necessarily agree with."

      But ... but ... we didn't mean those opinions!

    12. Re:I'm sorry... by Mr.CRC · · Score: 1

      You are engaging in deliberate intellectual dishonesty.

      Libertarians do not reject laws. Someone selling food made from non food-grade oil could simply be charged with the crime of fraud. If actual medical harm was done, then they could also be charged with reckless endangerment, or in the worst case that someone died, manslaughter.

      They would also be subject to civil lawsuit(s) for damages. In fact, such an act would warrant severe, most likely business liquidating damages just for the psychological stress and possibility of harm they subjected patrons to.

      THAT is respect for private property rights. It starts FIRST with the individual's right to life, liberty, and property. Violate that, and there should be hell to pay.

      You can be sure that 2000 pages of regulations aren't necessary when two or three simple lines in the law book are sufficient--provided that law gets enforced impartially no matter the wealth of the offender. One or two business getting liquidated and their owners going away for fraud charges will have the other busineses clamoring to establish a private standards consortium in a hurry, complete with self-motivated compliance and public posting of their independent lab assessments.

      That is libertartianism.

    13. Re:I'm sorry... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      1. So my mother, who may agree with you 100%, should die because I may not agree with you? Seems rather perverse... 2. Just because there are no state regs doesn't mean individual testing locations and schools don't have their own. I don't know any K-12 that doesn't have anti-electronic cheating rules (So. CA here). There are already state rules on cheating for non-electronic tests, and guess what? Cheating, *gasp*, still happens on the student and teacher ends. I am not necessarily against stronger laws, but don't think they will actually reduce cheating. Laws are meant to punish misbehavior, not prevent it. The honest students and teachers don't cheat, and the ones who do don't care about getting caught. They've already weighed the pros and cons and have incorrectly decided to cheat. 3. China DOES have such laws - a LOT of laws. They are ignored because bribes are still very much a part of business there. My father is currently over there to work on Shanghai Disney. He said the second week he was there, someone brought him approval from either the city or province (can't remember), and he noticed that the approval date stamped was before he even had those forms submitted. Apparently, this kind of shenanigans is quite common; he expected things to have changed since he immigrated, but he says they haven't really. As long as people don't THINK they will get caught, laws are broken pretty regularly, unfortunately.

  5. Codification by Livius · · Score: 1

    Just speculating, but my guess is that cheating is illegal even without "codified regulations".

    1. Re:Codification by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Cheating is "academic dishonesty", but it's not illegal.

    2. Re:Codification by Vlad_the_Inhaler · · Score: 1

      Back when I took exams - when the world was young and sheep were nervous - kids caught cheating were automatically failed and were in line for other sanctions as well, rather like doping in sport. Why the hell does a/the state need to get involved? An examination board is more likely to be able to keep up with newer ways of cheating than a state which has something codified and inflexible, an examination board is also more likely to be able to understand the subject than a collection of antagonistic lawyers dedicated to opposing whatever their opponents think is a good idea.

      A Bulgarian chess player was caught cheating around a year ago. It took a while to work out exactly *how* he was cheating but it had been obvious for months that he was and he was already finding it very difficult to be allowed to play tournaments. The Bulgarian Chess Federation has banned him for life. The system in place worked.

      --
      Mielipiteet omiani - Opinions personal, facts suspect.
    3. Re:Codification by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is in some jurisdictions for some things (eg: aerospace/aviation, driving tests etc.)

    4. Re:Codification by Bengie · · Score: 1

      This just saves time for the Universities. Cheating at any state Uni in my state will get you banned for life from the entire State Uni system. People with no skills or talent get quickly filtered by intro classes. Cheaters are just doing themselves a disservice, they'll rarely make it through a decent Uni.

  6. Make it illegal to teach the test by penguinoid · · Score: 1

    While I applaud the effort they're making to prevent cheating on tests (especially by school staff), perhaps they should reconsider the root cause of it -- that by tying a school's resources to the results of a standardized test, they're encouraging the school to do anything possible to up the marks on the test. And I've yet to see any rules or policies making it illegal to waste class time by teaching for the test. They're wasting the youth's education and no one is calling them out on it.

    --
    Don't waste your vote! Vote for whoever you want, unless you live in a swing state it won't matter anyways
    1. Re:Make it illegal to teach the test by stoploss · · Score: 0

      ...tying a school's resources to the results of a standardized test, they're encouraging the school to do anything possible to up the marks on the test.

      Yes, heaven forbid any person or organization ever face any negative repercussions for underperforming. Hell, we should probably *reward* them with extra money for producing such poor results with the insane amount we gave them already.

      Don't become an apologist for unethical behavior. If a school is bad at educating students (its sole reason for existence), then it should be culled.

      Carrots alone are insufficient. The need for the stick exists as well.

    2. Re:Make it illegal to teach the test by penguinoid · · Score: 1

      I don't have a problem with the fact that there's consequences for a school failing to perform well. I have a problem with the fact that the design encourages poor quality education -- teaching for the test is a horrible thing to do to children. There should be a different measure for success (eg, measure the kids' scores on a test taken after school is over, such as the SAT, the acceptance rate of the students into quality universities, the average income of the students, etc) -- not only can these tests not be cheated, they actually measure how well the school is doing its real job. But because of the test, there's no time but to quickly fill the students' heads with boring, soon to be irrelevant data, instead of encouraging interest and curiosity into the subjects.

      In short, there's different optimum strategies for teaching a subject vs for training people to pass a test.

      --
      Don't waste your vote! Vote for whoever you want, unless you live in a swing state it won't matter anyways
  7. to be fair by Osgeld · · Score: 1

    its not about memorizing useless bullshit that you will never need again, its about learning the material and how to quickly reference it in the real world

    the old notion that you will need to memorize to a perfect T something you will never use in your life is dead, just like the teachers in my day POUNDING the fact you wont have a calulator on you at all times .... meanwhile we have pocket super computers on our bodies 24/7

    1. Re:to be fair by Bengie · · Score: 1

      Basic math repetition is so annoying. 80/20 rule. Huge diminishing returns on extra practice. You should practice it enough to understand it, but nothing more. If you need to get better at doing it in your head, then it'll happen naturally when the time arises. I use math all the time, but I never do the calculations myself. Most of what I do is designing algorithms(programming), let the computer do the grunt work.

  8. CB Exams are woeful security wise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I run a lab of computers used for "high-risk examinations", things involving aerospace (The guys that fly big things above your heads or working on their parts). The security of the stock standard software that we must use (government provided) is awful, it's just Internet Explorer in a wrapper with a bunch of runtime modifications to explorer.exe to remove UI elements like the taskbar and crap. Seeing as we actually understand the threats involved, we have to provide additional security in order to prevent cheating seeing as we can be held liable in some circumstances. Physical hardened hardware (No USB ports or interfaces exposes other than permanently attached HIDs, power leads permanently connected, room has electronic access control), network is ridiculously firewalled off (exams are web based so can't help that but uses MITM SSL proxies etc.), UPSs, systems reimaged before and after each exam, encryption everywhere, smart card access for users, full auditing within OS, screen recording and someone who has actually been trained for the threat model supervising the exam.
    To put it simply, it costs a fortune.

  9. I'm sorry... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm all for the separation of school and state ( schoolandstate.org ), but matters are a bit more complex. There are certain types of cheating that should already be covered by fraud regulations. I think commenters might be confusing "normal" school tests with state-mandated testing and with private exams (SAT, etc.) State governments have the right to set the rules for state testing (as long as they continue to compel students to take those tests). But this reeks more of private testing companies (ETS, etc.) trying to get government agencies to back them up on private tests. I'm not in favor of ETS trying to backdoor their way into extra legislation - and I normally would not say that companies like ETS have any place in schools, or supported by a public/government system, except that kids with less access to ETS exams would be less competitive throughout the US.

  10. Why law not policy? by dbIII · · Score: 1

    If an institution has a policy of kicking out or otherwise punishing students who cheat then why bother getting the people in politics involved? Such laws are pointless so it doesn't matter if only a couple of states have them.

    1. Re:Why law not policy? by faedle · · Score: 1

      Oregonian here who follows the happenings in our state capital.

      IIRC the concern in Salem was institutionalized cheating: that is, a school district turning a blind eye to (or actively encouraging) cheating to improve scores. Without a law, there was no formal way to dictate a universal anti-cheating policy state-wide.

    2. Re:Why law not policy? by dbIII · · Score: 1

      Wouldn't existing laws for fraud solve that?

    3. Re:Why law not policy? by PPH · · Score: 1

      Wouldn't existing laws for fraud solve that?

      I see what faedle is getting at. The laws place a burden on the institutions to prevent cheating. Fraud is a civil matter and requires the damaged party to come forward and complain. But if the institutions are complicit in cheating, or look the other way to boost the class average scores, they will hesitate to file charges.

      The initial reaction to a story about cheating is to think about those evil kids. But there's a significant problem with substandard or lazy teachers who try to shove their classes through the system. And then find a way to pump up test scores which can be used to evaluate their teaching performance.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    4. Re:Why law not policy? by mjwalshe · · Score: 1

      To stop pushy parents suing the school/government

  11. Prevent? by XNormal · · Score: 1

    Rules may prohibit cheating and possibly reduce it. They definitely can't prevent it.

    --
    Stop worrying about the risks of nuclear power and start worrying about the risks of not using nuclear power.
    1. Re:Prevent? by PPH · · Score: 0

      And yet, you will still hear the moans and wails from people who insist that they 'need' 7x24 access to their cell phone. Family emergencies, you know.

      When I was a kid, we took the test without interruptions. And at the end of the day, there were inevitably half a dozen students who were taken aside and informed that grandma had passed away in the middle of the afternoon. We just dealt with it. It builds character.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
  12. The solution is project work by MikeRT · · Score: 1

    Everyone knows plenty of smart people who are "terrible at taking tests." Yet often these people are able to run circles around those good at taking tests when it comes to applied work in class. Based on my high school and college experience, I would say that the main reason why teachers avoid making project work the majority of a student's grade (at least 60%, it not over 75%) is that it's easier to make a class look good via testing. I know that if my alma mater had suddenly shifted from tests being 60-70% of the grade to being at most 30% (including quizzes), a non-trivial percentage of my fellow students would have seen their GPA drop an entire point.

    1. Re:The solution is project work by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 1

      The real reason that teachers do not make "project" work a larger part of the grade is either because that is a lot more work for the teacher, or the subject is one which is really about acquiring a set of knowledge, not about acquiring a set of skills. I am sure there are schools which require that testing be a major component of the grade, but in every class I ever took, the teacher determined themselves how the grade was determined.

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    2. Re:The solution is project work by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      Everyone knows plenty of smart people who are "terrible at taking tests."

      I don't.

      Based on my high school and college experience, I would say that the main reason why teachers avoid making project work the majority of a student's grade (at least 60%, it not over 75%) is that it's easier to make a class look good via testing.

      Tests are easier to mark. A project takes longer since you have to actually look at the deliverables. Also, you don't know who actually did it.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  13. Where is ethics and honesty in administration? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    If the standardized testing providers do not trust the educators to administer the tests, there is no amount of law or security bells and whistles that can correct that problem. What roll does ethics of the test administrators and educators play?

  14. Similar to Online Voting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...or even teachers going in afterward to change a student's responses.

    If they solve this here, maybe they can apply it to web based elections! ;)

  15. what do you call an opinion NOT based on knowledge by raymorris · · Score: 1

    There's a word for someone who has many opinions, all based on ignorance. Then there are informed opinions, based on learning the facts FIRST and learning on to explain and relate them.

  16. Or more simply... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm guessing in most states that there are regulations against cheating in general, what makes computerized cheating so special it needs its own regulation?

    1. Re:Or more simply... by Teresita · · Score: 1

      Fifty states have rules preventing driving faster than the speed limit. How's that working for them?

  17. do we, or is that what they say? by raymorris · · Score: 1

    > Everyone knows plenty of smart people who are "terrible at taking tests." Yet often these people are able to run circles around those good at taking tests when it comes to applied work in class.

    At first I nodded my head in agreement, but then I started wondering- is that really true, or is that something said to avoid acknowledging that the person who consistently gets poor grades truly isn't that bright (or hasn't learned the material) . Thinking about people I know, there does seem to be a strong correlation between people who can successfully answer test questions and those who can answer "the mail server is down, what should we do?" Those who don't know what an exponential algorithm is vs a constant- time algorithm do in fact tend to use exponential algorithms.

    That said, there are also a lot of poor test questions, mostly used by people who don't know how to use the discriminative index to find poor quality questions. Better education regarding how to maintain a good test bank would do quite a bit toward having better quality tests. There are also a few test-taking skills, but those can be easily learned by grade 5. Running statistics on our online courses, those who spend more time studying the material do better on the test, as do those who get started sooner rather than putting it off until the last minute. Common sense suggests that doing those two things will help you learn the material, so maybe the tests really do measure knowledge of the material, and some people truly don't learn it well. Maybe they're not "bad at tests", they're "bad at learning ".

    1. Re:do we, or is that what they say? by Bengie · · Score: 1

      Smart people have a high rate of test anxiety and do not perform well under stress. Creativity in general is highly negatively affected by stress of any kind and creativity is typically associated with being "smart" by allowing you to think outside the box.

  18. why do we need *laws* for this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Laws and regulations?
    Don't we already have laws about fraud?

    This is what being a test proctor is all about. Maybe for these high stakes tests, having proctors wandering among the workstations/tables isn't such a bad idea.

  19. under the law that can make you a felon just even by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    under the law that can make you a felon just even just use the internet can fit in to the very broad laws much less changing a grade.

    http://dcourier.com/main.asp?S...

    Felon just for that?

  20. What's the GRE experience been? by michael_cain · · Score: 1

    The Graduate Record Exams have been given on computers for a number of years. That's a serious blessing for the long essay portion of the test, especially for those of us who type faster than we can write longhand (and you can edit!). Do they have a problem with cheating? With students accessing the Internet?

  21. It is time to embrace the extended mind by RhettLivingston · · Score: 1

    These tests are no longer testing the most valuable skills of our students. Instead of making them take tests with both hands tied behind their backs, tests should be embracing the internet. It isn't cheating as long as you're not simply looking up the answers at a site that has cracked the test in some way. The best scientists, engineers, researchers, developers, etc. recognize what tasks need to be performed largely on their own and then perform them as efficiently and accurately as possible without breaking the law. The ability to ask the right questions of the right sites on the internet and recognize the best answer without being led down to many rabbit trails is critical to many if not most non physical disciplines today. In others, the ability to create scripts or programs to solve minor problems quickly might be critical. The internet and programming are tools for extending our minds that need to be embraced during years when the mind is still very flexible in order for the individual to gain maximum advantage. Eventually, these will be integrated into our mind to the point that turning them off will cause major disorientation at the least.

    The ideal tests for students should use all of the tools that they are being prepared to use after school. If they aren't being prepared to use the internet and to extend their problem solving skills with at least simple scripts, then you should find them a new school. The tests of course should be much harder because the tools we have for extending ourselves today are much better. We need to embrace and institutionalize the progress we've made.

  22. Why bother with internet testing by rs1n · · Score: 1

    I am pretty sure that cheating back in the day occurred fairly regularly, but I am willing to wager the farm that, relatively speaking, cheating on computer-based exams today is much easier than cheating back in the old days of pencil and paper. Just take for example the smart watch. It doesn't even have to be an iWatch or the android equivalent. In fact, for a cheater, it's even better if their devices were NOT the typical ones so that they don't set off the ever-watchful proctors. Watches with wifi enabled can be a means for people to get answers much more readily than the old techniques of sneaking in a cheat sheet or whatever methods were used.

  23. Rulz prevent cheating? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Who knew?

  24. cite? unprepared causes anxiety? by raymorris · · Score: 1

    > smart people have a high rate of test anxiety

    I'm just curious if you have a citation for that. I would think that being unprepared and likely to fail would make someone nervous. I know that for me personally, I never worry about tests BECAUSE I know the material, so I know I'll pass. The main unknowns that affect my score are a) whether I mismark one question or two by hurrying through and b) how many wrong/nonsensical/ stupid questions there are. I don't worry precisely because I know the material or can figure it out, so I'll score at least 85%.

    My last sentence does point out something about tests that is either a weakness or a strength, depending on how you look at it. While doing QA for courses where I don't know the subject, I can frequently barely pass by just applying intelligence/ common sense such as "any true/false question with the word 'always' or 'never' is probably false - most rules have exceptions ". That means I can get some questions without knowing the material ahead of time, BUT the same is true in real life - the same logic allows me to fix software written in a language I've never used, or evaluate products I'm unfamiliar with. In that way, the test measures how well I'd perform in that field apart from the knowledge I have in the field.

  25. Proctored Distance Learning Exams by omtinez · · Score: 0

    Having just taken an exam for my distance learning class through ProctorU, I can tell you that the only thing stopping me from cheating were my ethical principles...

  26. Dear little Smartass... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Dear little Timmy,
          Arrays.sort() is a very succinct way to sort the data in problem #2. But I asked you to implement the bubble sort algorithm.

          The intent is for you to demonstrate an understanding of arrays and nested loops. This will be important when we move on to more complex data structures. Furthermore, using a library function --even if included with the language-- does not help you to understand an algorithm.

    Your code demonstrates that you are able to use a single built-in function. Unfortunately, that was none of the criteria by which this assignment was graded. For this reason your assignment was marked zero points. If you want to question this grade on grounds that you "already know all of that other stuff," then I will remind you that I can only award points for assignments completed as requested.