Tesla Is Starting a Certified Preowned Program

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Tesla Is Starting a Certified Preowned Program

Posted by Soulskill on Tuesday October 7, 2014 @07:06AM from the making-it-cheaper dept.

cartechboy writes Most luxury automakers have a Certified Previously Owned (CPO) program. Tesla isn't like a normal luxury automakers, in fact, it's not really like any automaker out there. It doesn't have franchises and it sells its own vehicles through its network of galleries. Now, it plans to create its own CPO program. There are a great deal of Model S sedans out there currently under lease contracts. When those cars are ready to come back, Tesla has guaranteed that it will purchase them for a figure that falls somewhere between 43 and 50 percent of the original purchase price. This is exactly how Tesla's going to create its CPO fleet. Tesla seems to do everything in an unconventional manner, so we'll have to see if its CPO program behaves like every other automaker's, or if it's different somehow as well.

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A lease on a CPO might be interesting... by FlyHelicopters · 2014-10-07 07:09 · Score: 3, Interesting

I have not found the Tesla S to be all that interesting due to price. For what you pay, it is expensive, in my opinion.
That being said, if they do a lease on a 3 year old copy for half the price of a new one, the monthly payment might get into an area that I'd be interested in.
I would expect a 3 year old Tesla S to be in better shape than your average 3 year old car, the early buyers are going to likely have taken good care of it and if it comes with another 3 year warranty, then no worries.
I actually wouldn't mind owning an electric, price is the primary issue right now.
1. Re:A lease on a CPO might be interesting... by TWX · 2014-10-07 07:14 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  On top of that, electric cars don't need the sort of fluids monitoring and maintenance that can make lease cars with gas engines undesirable; there's no, "don't change the oil for 50,000 miles, change it right before turning it back in" crap.
  
  Obviously regular wear items like interior parts, tires/suspension/alignment, and such will still be the same, but I'm used to driving cars up close to 200,000 miles anyway, so that's not such a big deal.
  
  --
  Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
2. Re:A lease on a CPO might be interesting... by Alomex · 2014-10-07 07:22 · Score: 2
  
  Additionally to fluids, electric cars are subject to much less vibration than combustion engines, which is one of the main causes of wear and tear in automotive parts.
3. Re:A lease on a CPO might be interesting... by Anonymous Coward · 2014-10-07 07:30 · Score: 0
  
  I'm taking it you don't own a Tesla? Either you don't know or you're hiding the truth behind exactly how expensive their maintenance plans are.
  
  Funny, I never spent that much on my ICE to keep it on the road.
4. Re:A lease on a CPO might be interesting... by TWX · 2014-10-07 07:31 · Score: 2
  
  I'm not so sure that's as significant as you state.
  
  Powerplants of every kind take a certain amount of mass, and as they rotate they induce a certain amount of vibration. Electric motors over certain sizes or power levels are often isolated with their own shock-absorbing motor mounts, even if they're not much more than bushings or pillow-blocks. Even devices as lowly and underpowered as squirrel-cage fans in evap coolers and air handlers have bushings.
  
  With an electric car, you're deciding between using gearing to achieve optimal engine RPM at every speed, or you're suffering when you're at lower speeds, getting suboptimal RPM and suboptimal power consumption. This precludes wheel-motors (and has the side benefit of preventing excessive unsprung weight) but means that the drivetrain now has to be located somewhere amongst the body/frame of the car, and has to use shafts to deliver the power. This means that there's still going to be vibration, there's still going to be force applied to motor mounts in the form of torque, and it means that any accessories deriving power off of the main motor will still have to handle having a part that moves (on the motor) and a part that doesn't move (on the body) to work. Otherwise one has to have an accessory motor (which may still be necessary anyway) and would have to drag along more mass.
  
  --
  Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
5. Re: A lease on a CPO might be interesting... by Anonymous Coward · 2014-10-07 07:39 · Score: 1
  
  I own one. It's not a lease program, it's a guaranteed buy back program. To qualify you have to purchase a service plan and take the car in every 5,000 miles. (So they can rotate the tires and grease the door hinges. Maybe they change the spark plugs periodically, too :-)
6. Re:A lease on a CPO might be interesting... by Alomex · 2014-10-07 07:39 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  Powerplants of every kind take a certain amount of mass, and as they rotate they induce a certain amount of vibration.
  Wrong: a free spinning wheel creates no vibration.
  Combustion engines create a lot of vibration by their very design with a crankshaft and four strokes pistons. Have you been on an electric car? the reduced vibration is notable. Other readers might have been on a dual diesel/electric train while traveling in Europe? One can tell when they switch to the diesel power plant on the station at the end of the electric line because of the increase in carriage vibration.
7. Re:A lease on a CPO might be interesting... by pr0t0 · 2014-10-07 07:42 · Score: 1
  
  It depends on the car and where you take it to be serviced. Even basic maintenance like oil changes can be expensive on luxury vehicles at the dealer or specialty shop. The mid-tier service plan on the Tesla is $500/year. I could get half-way to that just on oil changes alone...if I were dumb enough to take it to a dealer. The local foreign auto shop is a bit less, but I don't think $500/year is crazy. Certainly not any crazier than spending $80k on a car when you can buy other brands and models for $20k. You buy the car (and service) that fits in your budget and meets the needs you set above basic locomotion.
  
  --
  I'm sorry, but your opinion seems to be wrong.
8. Re:A lease on a CPO might be interesting... by geekmux · 2014-10-07 07:50 · Score: 1
  
  I'm taking it you don't own a Tesla? Either you don't know or you're hiding the truth behind exactly how expensive their maintenance plans are. Funny, I never spent that much on my ICE to keep it on the road.
  Uh, that "expensive" pre-paid multi-year plan works out to $450/year.
  For an $80,000 vehicle.
  From Acura to Volvo and every premium brand in between, you honestly think you can find a stealership that will charge that little of an amount to support any of their luxury vehicles for a year?
  Yeah, good luck with that. You'll find out very quickly why we call them stealerships.
9. Re:A lease on a CPO might be interesting... by FlyHelicopters · 2014-10-07 07:52 · Score: 1
  
  My 2015 Yukon XL Denali requires semi-synthetic oil...
  I have to change the oil at most twice a year...
  The cost at the GMC dealership? $40 a change, and they wash it for me... Better yet, they offer no-charge valet service, they'll come drop off a loaner truck, pickup mine, then return it a few hours later clean and done...
  Beyond that, it'll require tires every few years, but so will a Tesla... The transmission fluid and all other fluids are good for 100,000 miles, so frankly I'll probably never change them.
  This myth of a ICE vehicle costing so much to drive is just nuts.
  Fuel is the single biggest expense, and I'll grant you that I pay a lot to keep my truck filled up. That being said, I use the space and can't buy an electric version of it... yet. :) Give it 5 years, maybe then...
10. Re:A lease on a CPO might be interesting... by Anonymous Coward · 2014-10-07 07:53 · Score: 1
  
  Wrong: a free spinning wheel creates no vibration.
  An ideally balanced spinning wheel creates no vibration might be more accurate, but I agree that electric cars vibrate less (kind of eerie for the first little while really, especially combined with less noise).
11. Re:A lease on a CPO might be interesting... by Anonymous Coward · 2014-10-07 08:01 · Score: 0
  
  Ah. But they arent free spinning wheels, are they?
  They're in contact with the road.
  Lets not ignore road vibration.
12. Re:A lease on a CPO might be interesting... by dywolf · 2014-10-07 08:04 · Score: 1
  
  I dont see where their plan is required?
  
  --
  The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
13. Re:A lease on a CPO might be interesting... by Anubis+IV · 2014-10-07 08:14 · Score: 2
  
  I was curious, so I followed your link. What I quickly discovered is that your link goes to entirely optional service plans that include WAY more than typical maintenance, and even if it were only maintenance, it'd actually be significantly better than what I'm paying out-of-pocket now. If my auto manufacturer offered a plan that covered those same features at that same cost, I would have saved $825 in the last three years alone!
  Specifically, I just pulled up the numbers, and in the last three years I've spent about $1800 on oil, repairs, and other similar maintenance on my current vehicle that has about 70,000 miles on it, all of which would be covered if I owned a Tesla. That ends up averaging to $600/year, obviously. In addition to that, I pay about $100/year for AAA's roadside assistance, and I've also had to pay an average of about $50/year for rental cars when mine has been in the shop overnight. Which means I'm paying about $750/year on stuff that Tesla's plans cover. Given that Tesla's 4-year and 8-year plans average out to $475/year and would cover ALL of that (as well as offering a few things I don't currently have, like automated vehicle diagnostics and hardware upgrades), it'd mean I could cut my costs by $275/year while gaining access to new features/services.
  Besides which, the previous poster never mentioned costs at all, so even if you were correct, it'd still be an entirely unrelated conversation. He was talking about the fact that the sorts of maintenance that people neglect with leased ICE vehicles which can cause major issues for second hand buyers is a non-issue for Teslas, given that they don't need that sort of maintenance. That's it. Suggesting he's "hiding the truth" is an act of hyperbole for its own sake.
14. Re:A lease on a CPO might be interesting... by Anonymous Coward · 2014-10-07 08:18 · Score: 0
  
  But... but... but... Teh Tesla is a LUXURY vehicle!!!!
  
  Which is a bunch of crap, I know, but I never spent much more having my oil changes done at a Volvo dealership than I did at the local Grease Monkey.
15. Re:A lease on a CPO might be interesting... by Anonymous Coward · 2014-10-07 08:31 · Score: 0
  
  A lot of what Tesla covers with their maintenance is already covered by traditional warranties on any brand that can even approach the term "luxury" and many that don't even try. So what you think you're getting for a bargain price should already be covered and if it's not that's a shame on Tesla. Not to even mention that the large number of the CPOs are going to be leases. Do you think Tesla is going to let you get away without a maintenance plan for their leased vehicles?
  
  I've owned Volvos and I'm really not seeing what you're getting at. Volvo is a solid brand and they most certainly do back up their products. So care to revisit why you think the Tesla "Store" is so much different than a dealership or are you going to just try to be witty and dismiss them with the "stealership" badge again without bringing anything to the table?
  
  This story and your ramblings are a total non-starter on the matter.
16. Re:A lease on a CPO might be interesting... by Anonymous Coward · 2014-10-07 08:34 · Score: 0
  
  Whenever I've been around the Model S, I notice the size. The thing is HUGE. It makes me wonder if they'll ever release an updated Roadster. AFAIK, the next plan is an SUV. Maybe they need room for a large battery pack to get range. The cost is a big factor of course. I'm still waiting for my gas powered car to be the last one I own. There will have to be a Model T or Volkswagon Beetle revolution in electrics before I'll own one..
17. Re:A lease on a CPO might be interesting... by FlyHelicopters · 2014-10-07 08:37 · Score: 1
  
  You're comparing the cost of repairs on an older car out of warranty with a brand new car, hardly comparable...
  To get Tesla's coverage for that long, you have to pay for it from day one and for every year.
  Most new cars also come with roadside coverage, my current truck has it for 5 years from date of purchase.
  While it is true that the yearly running costs of an electric car are lower than for a ICE car, that battery will be expensive to replace. All the oil changes in the world don't compete with that.
18. Re:A lease on a CPO might be interesting... by FlyHelicopters · 2014-10-07 08:46 · Score: 1
  
  :) I rather think of my Denali as a luxury vehicle. It should be for a nearly $80k sticker price.
  Considering all that is in it, it is actually nicer than many so-called "luxury brands".
19. Re:A lease on a CPO might be interesting... by Anubis+IV · 2014-10-07 08:47 · Score: 1
  
  You're comparing the cost of repairs on an older car out of warranty with a brand new car, hardly comparable...
  A fair point, to be sure. Even so, my vehicle only has 70,000 miles on it, and Tesla offers an 8-year warranty, so I'd still be under their warranty and would have saved a substantial amount over the last three years (I don't have numbers older than that readily available, else I'd cite them so we could get a clearer picture).
  Either way, it really doesn't matter too much what the particulars are, since my point was simply that A) those plans weren't as bad a deal as the AC was painting them to be, and B) the whole topic of cost was something that the AC used to unfairly bludgeon the previous poster by accusing him of being deceitful regarding costs, even though the previous poster never mentioned costs at all.
20. Re:A lease on a CPO might be interesting... by FlyHelicopters · 2014-10-07 08:55 · Score: 1
  
  Fair enough...
  Keep in mind that for FAR less than the cost of the Tesla plan, my new Yukon is covered for 7 years or 84,000 miles, whichever comes first.
  All I have to do is oil changes and tires, everything else is covered.
  So were I in your shoes, I'd have paid about $2K total for all that coverage and not paid a dime in repairs, plus had free loaner cars, free roadside assistance (included in the warranty), and paid a LOT less than Tesla charges for 8 years of coverage.
21. Re:A lease on a CPO might be interesting... by Noah+Haders · 2014-10-07 09:07 · Score: 1
  
  While it is true that the yearly running costs of an electric car are lower than for a ICE car, that battery will be expensive to replace. All the oil changes in the world don't compete with that.
  exxon and Russia just found an oil field in the Russian arctic ocean that's about the size of the gulf of mexico. So when you want to make comparisons to all the oil in the world, be ware that there's more out there than we realized!
22. Re:A lease on a CPO might be interesting... by Anonymous Coward · 2014-10-07 09:10 · Score: 0
  
  Try driving a ICE vehicle with a busted engine mount and get back to us on this. :) How did I know the rubber decided to rot out on just one of the mounts with my vehicle? At a stop, with the stereo off, I couldn't actually see anything but a giant blur in all my mirrors. And that was just a crappy 4 banger.
23. Re:A lease on a CPO might be interesting... by Anonymous Coward · 2014-10-07 09:27 · Score: 0
  
  You know what the main cause of wear and tear is on parts? Driving a heavy thing (the car) on an irregular surface (the road). The "wear and tear" caused by the vibration from the power train is negligible compared to the shock loading of a 4,000lb vehicle hitting a pothole at 70mph.
  If I bothered to wade through 20-year old videos I could find a video of a BMW V12 engine running and a quarter standing on its edge while on top of the engine. But I can't be bothered, because the myopia is too strong.
24. Re:A lease on a CPO might be interesting... by bobbied · 2014-10-07 09:29 · Score: 1
  
  Lets not ignore road vibration.
  No worries around here.... From Pot Hole city..
  
  --
  "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
25. Re:A lease on a CPO might be interesting... by FlyHelicopters · 2014-10-07 09:31 · Score: 2
  
  :) I worked for awhile in the Gulf of Mexico as a helicopter pilot... There is tons and tons of oil yet to be extracted from there, including from fields they once thought were done.
  10 years ago companies like Apache and Baker were buying up "old spent" fields from the big boys and employing new technology to get more out of them.
  One platform I flew to was built in the 70s, it still produces about a million dollars a day in oil, long after the "experts" predicted it would run dry.
  Colorado is swimming on top of oil, so is Canada... So is the arctic... There are trillions and trillions of barrels of oil to be found...
  Of course, that is another question, do we want to pull it ALL out and burn it all?
  No, I don't want to, and I'm NOT a greenie. I do drive a 3 ton SUV after all! :)
  But I get it, even if CO2 isn't an issue, burning all that oil isn't clean, it does polute...
  So I'm all for better technology. Lets start with our power plants... If I buy a Tesla, my primary concern beyond cost is that I get my power from the wall from a coal power plant.
  Yea, maybe it is "cleaner" somehow than a small ICE engine in my truck, but it feels a lot like rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic...
  Why don't we build more nuclear? Lets have the Navy run them, they have a very good record with their reactors and aren't limited in the type they can build, so they could run breeder reactors.
26. Re:A lease on a CPO might be interesting... by LifesABeach · 2014-10-07 09:34 · Score: 1
  
  One could live the myth in Beijing?
27. Re:A lease on a CPO might be interesting... by Anonymous Coward · 2014-10-07 10:15 · Score: 0
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qyoxSj1gyE
28. Re:A lease on a CPO might be interesting... by FlyHelicopters · 2014-10-07 10:31 · Score: 1
  
  Help me out, cause that wooshed over my head...
29. Re:A lease on a CPO might be interesting... by K.+S.+Kyosuke · 2014-10-07 10:43 · Score: 1
  
  After all, if someone were giving away free spinning wheels, you wouldn't need to pay your power bill ever again: just attach the wheel to a generator, and whenever it stops, replace it with a new one!
  
  --
  Ezekiel 23:20
30. Re:A lease on a CPO might be interesting... by K.+S.+Kyosuke · 2014-10-07 10:46 · Score: 1
  
  Isn't it possible to create some sort of adaptive suspension? After all, if the future cars are going to have those advanced 3D imaging systems to see what's in front of them, they could be able to prepare for the hole in advance.
  
  --
  Ezekiel 23:20
31. Re:A lease on a CPO might be interesting... by sumdumass · 2014-10-07 10:56 · Score: 1
  
  I have yet to this day see an actual tesla anything on the road that wasn't on a trailer being towed by a GM pickup (Tesla emblems on the pickup so it must be a display car or something). I've seen plenty parked, I seen them on TV, I just have never seen anyone driving one in real life- and I travel about 350 miles a day most days.
32. Re:A lease on a CPO might be interesting... by petermgreen · 2014-10-07 11:58 · Score: 1
  
  While an electric vehicle won't be zero vibration it will likely be much better than a vehicle based around a reciprocating internal combustion engine for serveral reasons.
  1: IC engine vehicles need to "idle". That is run the engine with no load as part of the startup process and during short stops. Mechanisms running unloaded are much worse from a vibration point of view than the same ones running under load. Electric cars can simply turn the main motors off when stopped (accessories can use their own motors which are sized to be appropriate to the load in question).
  2: a reciprocating engine by it's very nature has objects of substantial mass changing position (rather than simply rotating). They try to balance this of course but said balancing is often of limited effectiveness. An electric motor (or a gas turbine but those didn't catch on in cars for other reasons) by contrast only has rotating parts.
  3: while it's true that electric motors do have an optimal speed they have a much wider band of usable performance than an internal combustion engine. This means that it is practical for electric cars to use a fixed-ratio transmission.
  
  --
  note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
33. Re:A lease on a CPO might be interesting... by choseph · 2014-10-07 17:37 · Score: 1
  
  Come to Washington. There are two in my middle-class condo group. There are at least 8 in my smallish town. If I don't see 4-5 daily then something unusual is happening. All matters which part of the country you're currently in.
34. Re:A lease on a CPO might be interesting... by Anonymous Coward · 2014-10-07 18:32 · Score: 0
  
  Why don't they just call it refurbished and sell it for 80% of the original price and maximize their buy back price. Everybody wins?
35. Re:A lease on a CPO might be interesting... by Anonymous Coward · 2014-10-08 03:07 · Score: 0
  
  I had a motor mount break on a 3.8 v6. I only noticed by all the vibrations. I saw the mechanic run it in neutral, with the hood open. he gave it a little engine rev, way more tame then I was just driving to get it there. The engine surged, lifting up under the torque. I realized that the hood was the only thing holding the engine in the car!
36. Re: A lease on a CPO might be interesting... by O('_')O_Bush · 2014-10-08 04:56 · Score: 1
  
  BMW Z4 3.0SI owner here.
  
  Maintenance (tires, brake pads, fluid changes, headlight bulbetc) averages $1500/year. On top of that, anything that breaks (so far, windshield washer motor, pumps assorted little things) have fixes that start at $1k and go up real quick.
  
  Your Denali, being a truck, not a lightweight, high performance sports car, is an Apples-to-oranges comparison even amongst ICE vehicles, let alone the Tesla.
  
  --
  while(1) attack(People.Sandy);
37. Re: A lease on a CPO might be interesting... by FlyHelicopters · 2014-10-08 05:29 · Score: 1
  
  Tires will be the biggest single expense on my truck... A nice set of Michelin M/S tires will run about a thousand dollars for my truck, but will last 5 years. So that is about $200 a year, but that cost is there for any high end vehicle.
  How old is your car that you're changing brake pads, headlight bulbs, etc? I guess if it is 10 years old, that stuff starts to add up, but you also haven't had a payment in awhile, so it is still cheap. :)
  My truck costs me about a thousand dollars a month, so "free maintenance" is a bit silly when put into that context. There is nothing cheap about owning a nice vehicle, Tesla or otherwise.
  Even if I keep my truck 10 years, the per month cost of owning it will be around $600 a month. At 7 years of ownership, it will be closer to $750 a month. If I leased it for 3 years instead, it would be about $1,100 a month.
  So the truth is, debating the cost of oil changes and battery maintenance is silly when we're talking those kinds of numbers.
  A fully optioned Tesla S costs how much to own per month again? :) (hint, it is a lot, and high enough that anyone considering doing so isn't worried about a $40 oil change)
  BTW, I spend about $300 a month in fuel, while I don't like throwing away money, against the cost of the vehicle, frankly it isn't that big a deal. Insurance runs around $150 a month for very good coverage as well.
  It is expensive to have fancy. :)
38. Re:A lease on a CPO might be interesting... by LifesABeach · 2014-10-08 08:32 · Score: 1
  
  My thinking is that SMOG is not a high priority on your priority list. Maybe rolling through Beijing with the big dogs is a good thing? Yukon has a nice body style, it's a shame the engineers at GM slept through Fuel Cell class; but I hear that may be changing.
39. Re: A lease on a CPO might be interesting... by AlvinKeller · 2014-10-08 09:19 · Score: 1
  
  I'm very interested in purchasing or leasing an used S model Tesla.
40. Re:A lease on a CPO might be interesting... by FlyHelicopters · 2014-10-08 12:22 · Score: 1
  
  Of course smog is an issue, there really isn't anything "good" that comes out of the back of a ICE engine...
  The problem is, getting an electric truck doesn't help much when the power from the wall is produced from a coal fired power plant...
  You're just moving the pollution from one place to another, not removing it...
41. Re:A lease on a CPO might be interesting... by mattack2 · 2014-10-08 12:50 · Score: 1
  
  I actually wouldn't mind owning an electric, price is the primary issue right now.
  OK, you're admittedly talking about Teslas here, so you're likely looking for luxury and/or the very long range of Teslas.
  However, if price really is the primary issue, and you *don't* need the huge range or luxury, some of the lowest end electric cars are under $200/month (I think some significantly under) for lease price.
  I bought my smart electric, and after fed & state rebates, it was about $16500, including tax.
42. Re:A lease on a CPO might be interesting... by mattack2 · 2014-10-08 13:14 · Score: 1
  
  No, you're not just moving the pollution.
  A central power plant can/does have far better air scrubbing technology than your ICE. It can also run more efficiently, putting out less pollution for the same amount of power.
  Also, it _could_ (I'm not saying this is actually the case) be in a more remote location, where fewer people are as directly affected, even after the above benefits are still in place. (No, I am not meaning this to be a NIMBY argument, it's an "around fewer people in general" argument.)
  Vaguely similar to how compact fluorescent bulbs _reduced_ the amount of mercury in the environment, even though they themselves have a bit of mercury, because the reduced electricity used caused less mercury to be emitted at the power plants compared to the energy required to run incandescent lights.
43. Re:A lease on a CPO might be interesting... by FlyHelicopters · 2014-10-08 15:16 · Score: 1
  
  If I was in the market for something like a Nissan Leaf, I would give it a serious look. After the tax credits and considering the deals on them, it might well be something to consider.
  The irony is that standard cars today are just as nice, if not nicer, than many luxury cars of years gone by. But I'm spoiled (yea, I know that is what it is), so I wouldn't look at such a car.
  The issue I'm having with the Tesla is that for what you pay, you're not getting a whole lot. It is missing a lot of things that I now consider "standard equipment" in the $70-80k price range.
  Electrics perhaps just don't have the juice to provide everything yet, but I know it will come.
  Range isn't the biggest concern, I'll have a gas vehicle for awhile to cover that, one of my two vehicles can be electric. The bigger issue is that none of the electrics really offers what I'm looking for.
  I either need a full size truck, or perhaps an electric Corvette. :) I don't ever see myself buying a sedan ever again.
44. Re:A lease on a CPO might be interesting... by FlyHelicopters · 2014-10-08 15:23 · Score: 1
  
  No, you're not just moving the pollution.
  A central power plant can/does have far better air scrubbing technology than your ICE. It can also run more efficiently, putting out less pollution for the same amount of power.
  While that is all true, it still puts out a bunch of pollution, a bunch of CO2, and doesn't really address the core problem, which is to stop burning dead dinos.
  If I'm going to spend more money on transportation, deal with range issues, etc. then it needs to be on more than just moving from burning oil to burning coal. If my power was nuclear supplied, I'd be much more inclined to do it.
  I would rather a nuclear plant was built 10 miles away from my home than a coal plant 100 miles away. Nuclear, run properly, is safe.
  Of course, the words "run properly" are key there, that is another conversation to be had. That is why I'd want to talk about having the Navy run them, they have done very well over the past 50 years and don't have a "profit" incentive the way private companies do. Sometimes "max profit" and "nuclear reactor" shouldn't be in the same sentence. :)
  IMHO...
45. Re:A lease on a CPO might be interesting... by Anonymous Coward · 2014-10-08 15:44 · Score: 0
  
  Pretty good listing, but you forgot the 3G networking that is used for music, internet, AND car monitoring (similar to on-star).
  
  Basically, that 600/year is almost the equivalent of preventative medicine, dentistry, and optical all rolled into together. It is actually cheaper for tesla to do this kind of work making sure that they do very little re-builds/fixes down the road.
46. Re:A lease on a CPO might be interesting... by Anonymous Coward · 2014-10-08 15:52 · Score: 0
  
  While it is true that the yearly running costs of an electric car are lower than for a ICE car, that battery will be expensive to replace.
  According to data from the FIRST VERSIONS of the batteries that are in the roadsters, the cars that are hitting 100,000 miles, still have better than 85%, and most are above 90% levels. The current version of the panasonic batteries are expected to be around 93-95% at 100K miles.
  More importantly, with the 85KW pact, it is expected that it will be around 150-200K miles before you drop at around 80% level, which you will likely replace the pack. And that is expected around 12-16 years out. The pac is expected to costs less than 5K to replace by then, if you turn over the old pac (which will be used in solar city, and then after another 13-18 years of usage, it will be recycled into new batteries).
  BTW, what does it costs to have a rebuilt transmission and engine thrown in an ICE car? A LOT.
47. Re:A lease on a CPO might be interesting... by Anonymous Coward · 2014-10-08 16:03 · Score: 0
  
  Well, first off, your yukon has been recalled several times.
  Secondly, to compare a yukon to a model S is a joke. They are radically different vehicles. The Yukon is a POS that costs an arm and a leg to run.
  The Model S seats the same (7 people), but will costs far less.
  That 600/year, covers not just maintenance, free support, free loaner cars, free pick-up/delivery, but it covers the updates, along with the 3G network. That network provides for equivalence of on-star monitoring, along with internet/music, etc. Onstar costs 300/year. How much does the networking costs for your yukon? Oh yeah. You do not HAVE that. However, ATT will charge your phone over 50/month for that.
  So, 1/2 to 2/3 of the money goes to non-maintenance. That means that you are really only paying 200-250/year for maintenance. THAT is cheap.
Battery Life by sycodon · 2014-10-07 07:12 · Score: 0

Are all the owners beginning to sell just prior to the batteries reaching the end of their life?

--
When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
1. Re:Battery Life by Alomex · 2014-10-07 07:15 · Score: 2
  
  Nope, battery warranty is eight years, so you are far off the mark.
2. Re:Battery Life by TWX · 2014-10-07 07:16 · Score: 2
  
  This isn't anything about owners, this is about off-lease cars. Leases are for predictable durations, so remaining battery life should be easy enough to determine.
  
  --
  Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
3. Re:Battery Life by Anonymous Coward · 2014-10-07 07:43 · Score: 0
  
  People always do that. When you buy a used gas car, see if the next big maintenance is coming up. Or the brakes are nearly worn out.
  No surprise that they will sell their electric cars just as the expensive battery is near its end of life. Buyer beware, as always.
4. Re:Battery Life by timeOday · 2014-10-07 08:02 · Score: 1
  
  I was going to leap to Tesla's defense here, but as I look into it, I think Tesla needs to define the battery warranty more clearly.
  On the one hand, Musk is saying all the right things:
  
  Except in the cases of a collision, opening of the battery pack by non-Tesla personnel or intentional abuse (lighting the pack on fire with a blowtorch is not covered!), all damage is covered by warranty, including improper maintenance or unintentionally leaving the pack at a low state of charge for years on end. The battery will be replaced at no cost by a factory reconditioned unit with an energy capacity equal to or better than the original pack before the failure occurred.
  The intent is to provide complete peace of mind about owning your Model S even if you never read or followed the instructions in the manual.
  
  On the other hand, the warranty itself does not really back it up:
  
  The Battery, like all lithium-ion batteries, will expe rience gradual energy or power loss with time and use. Loss of Battery energy or power over time or due to or resulting from Battery usage, is NOT covered under this Battery Limited Warranty. See your owner documentation for important information on how to maximize the life and capacity of the Battery.
  
  People are claiming they've received emails from Tesla assuring them the battery will be replaced if it drops below 70% within the 8-year warranty period, but as one of the comments on that page calls out, that leaves a lot un-answered:
  
  I was interested in purchasing a model S. I tried repeatedly to find out what criteria was used for warranty replacement of the battery. But Telsa would not answer me.
  I also tried to find out whether a battery replaced under warranty was new or used. But Tesla would not answer me.
  I also tried to find out whether a battery replaced under warranty was replaced without charge or if there was a pro-rata charge for time used, and if so the base price of the battery. But Tesla would not answer me.
  
  I'm not surprised Tesla failed to personally respond to emails from this car-shopper, but the point is, they shouldn't have to - it should be in writing already.
5. Re:Battery Life by sycodon · 2014-10-07 08:06 · Score: 1
  
  It was a question, not a statement.
  
  --
  When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
6. Re:Battery Life by Tom · 2014-10-07 08:12 · Score: 1
  
  I'm not surprised at all.
  If they put it in writing, you can probably sue them on it. If I were operating in the USA, known for having more lawyers than mosquitos, I would avoid absolutely anything that has the slightest chance of landing me in court.
  IOW, if I planned to make a promise to my customers, but without giving a free "sue me" card to some asshole who wants to lawyer-abuse me because one i wasn't dotted or one t wasn't crossed, then a public CEO announcement would be exactly what I'd do, especially if my CEO had such a good reputation. To any reasonable person, he's honour-bound to stand true to his word, but the ambulance-chaser, he can tell to fuck off and die.
  
  --
  Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
7. Re:Battery Life by Anonymous Coward · 2014-10-07 08:38 · Score: 0
  
  Are you some kind of an idiot?
8. Re:Battery Life by Noah+Haders · 2014-10-07 09:11 · Score: 1
  
  Are all the owners beginning to sell just prior to the batteries reaching the end of their life?
  batteries don't expire, they degrade over time. so it's not like there will be a day that is one day away from when the batteries go bad so you better sell by that day or else you'll be stuck with bad batteries.
9. Re:Battery Life by bobbied · 2014-10-07 09:41 · Score: 1
  
  Personally, If it was my company, I'd want the details clearly in writing and not subject myself to trying to explain in court what the CEO means in his public statements. It seems like it would lead to less abuse by lawyers. You can never avoid such abuses though, all you can do is make it as hard as possible to be found liable for more than you intended. Best way to do that is to draft an airtight warranty document.
  So that leads one to believe that this whole discussion was more of a bait and switch technique, where the customer thinks that the single most expensive component of his car is fully covered, where in reality, Tesla is reserving the right to refuse replacement for any number of reasons that suits it at the time. Typical used care selling...
  
  --
  "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
10. Re:Battery Life by Tom · 2014-10-07 10:25 · Score: 1
  
  Let me know when you've succeeded to sue a company in court for some marketing statements they made to the press.
  
  --
  Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
11. Re:Battery Life by q4Fry · 2014-10-08 05:25 · Score: 1
  
  Red Bull. Apparently, it does not in fact give you wings. If you have had one since 2002, you are eligible for compensation under a successful class action suit: http://www.energydrinksettlement.com/. I almost wish I were making this up.
12. Re:Battery Life by Tom · 2014-10-08 08:18 · Score: 1
  
  It's not yet successful (hearing in 2015), and anyone can bring a lawsuit for any stupid reason. But if they succeed, I'll lose what's left of my faith in humanity.
  
  --
  Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
13. Re:Battery Life by q4Fry · 2014-10-08 13:45 · Score: 1
  
  Ah. I should have read the details. My coworker presented it to me as if it were settled. Serves me right. :)
  
  She said, "If you've enjoyed a Red Bull since 2002, you can get ten bucks..."
  Me: "Enjoyed?"
So... by CaptSlaq · 2014-10-07 07:15 · Score: 1

A base model S for 50k, if you're not afraid of a few miles on it? It'll depend on what they do to the car: if it's "check a bunch of boxes" I'm not so sure I'm interested. If it's "Test the car and repair defects in the drive line and battery", that may be much more interesting.
1. Re:So... by nblender · 2014-10-07 07:28 · Score: 1
  
  This is a new car company engaged in a huge undertaking. If it were me, I'd want to know everything possible about every one of those vehicles on the road to help drive future so I bet there's a ton of useful telemetry that either gets sent in realtime or uploaded whenever the car checks in for a firmware update. As such, I bet a CPO Tesla would be a way better bet than a CPO Honda...
2. Re:So... by K.+S.+Kyosuke · 2014-10-07 10:56 · Score: 1
  
  Norwegians are probably still willing to pay *extra* even for *used* Teslas.
  
  --
  Ezekiel 23:20
SpaceX lawsuit by Anonymous Coward · 2014-10-07 07:17 · Score: 0

I was enamored with all things Elon Musk until I read about a labour lawsuit at SpaceX. I hope it wasn't something he personally encouraged, but the fact that it's under his umbrella of control is disappointing.
1. Re:SpaceX lawsuit by Teancum · 2014-10-07 15:08 · Score: 1
  
  I think in this case it was a mid-level manager at SpaceX who thought they knew more about labor laws than might actually be the case. Even if it was Elon Musk himself who pushed these guys out the door, it really is just a dispute over money and how much is owed to them... based upon a technicality of labor laws and not upon actual hours worked.
  My own opinion is that SpaceX screwed up here, but doesn't mean that SpaceX is a slimy company to work for either. If anything, it just shows the growing pains they have been going through from the rapid increase in employees they have had over the past decade.
It's a "used car", stupid. by Animats · 2014-10-07 07:19 · Score: 2

"Pre-owned" - come on.
1. Re:It's a "used car", stupid. by geekmux · 2014-10-07 07:57 · Score: 2
  
  "Pre-owned" - come on.
  C'mon. All luxury vehicles are either new or "pre-owned".
  Only peasants drive used shit. The yuppies would never stand for such a moniker.
  Oh, and that's Certified Pre-owned to you, buddy. You know, 'cause we need another reason to charge $400/month for some used shit...
2. Re:It's a "used car", stupid. by OzPeter · 2014-10-07 08:26 · Score: 2
  
  "Pre-owned" - come on.
  Yeah .. but it's "Certified Pre-owned". How else are you supposed to know that it was actually pre-owned. They might be lying about that. This way you are 100% guaranteed that it actually is a pre-owned Tesla. And that's good to know. Being able to sleep soundly at night knowing that your car is really pre-owned is well worth the money you pay for it being Certified!
  
  --
  I am Slashdot. Are you Slashdot as well?
3. Re:It's a "used car", stupid. by Anonymous Coward · 2014-10-07 09:01 · Score: 0
  
  Maybe they meant Certified Pre-0wned?
4. Re:It's a "used car", stupid. by Anonymous Coward · 2014-10-07 09:05 · Score: 1
  
  I know you are joking, but the certified part is that they certify that the car is still 'up to snuff' after being used, not that they are certifying the used-ness of the car.
5. Re:It's a "used car", stupid. by xeno · 2014-10-07 09:33 · Score: 1
  
  Yes, THIS.
  A used car is a USED car, not "pre-owned" any more than I am "pre-dead" as long as I'm vertical, or the food in me belly is "pre-deficated."
  I bought my current car (a reasonably lux and sporty V8 sedan that originally sold for just under $70k) from a dealer after it came back from a 3-year lease program. I told the sales droid that if he used the phrase "pre-owned" instead of "used" I would have to assume he was concealing or distorting other information about the car too. I'm sure he would have told me to go get stuffed except he knew I could pay outright. So he rolled, and spoke in plain and truthful terms about the USED car that I eventually bought. Oh, the power of the checkbook.
  And one other thing: At 99.9999_% of dealers "Certified" means they had the most junior mechanic in the place run down a checklist, then detail the car. Maybe, maybe even an oil change and filter, but nothing more. Ever. However if Musk designs a CPO program where they throw the vehicle back on the assembly line, have the robots remove the body panels/battery pack/motor, check alignment/tolerances/fatigue, and then reassemble... yeah, that would be worthy of the notion of "certified."
  
  --
  I think not...(*poof*)
6. Re:It's a "used car", stupid. by Jeremi · 2014-10-07 15:54 · Score: 1
  
  Being able to sleep soundly at night knowing that your car is really pre-owned is well worth the money you pay for it being Certified!
  Well at least you know you won't end up like this guy...
  
  --
  
  I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
7. Re:It's a "used car", stupid. by Anonymous Coward · 2014-10-07 20:37 · Score: 0
  
  As someone not familiar with life in American I thank you for explaining that. Was mystified.
8. Re:It's a "used car", stupid. by Anonymous Coward · 2014-10-07 21:13 · Score: 0
  
  Heh, that's like the recent (?) annoying trend of calling it a 'home' rather than a 'house'. I guess some marketroid discovered that using emotive / cutesy terms make the customers 0.01% more interested, or something..
Really? by Anonymous Coward · 2014-10-07 07:22 · Score: 0

Tesla seems to do everything in an unconventional manner

Why? Because they call their dealerships "stores?"

And you guys make fun of Apple? LOLzzz

I really don't understand what people think Tesla is bringing to the market other than the best range in an EV.

Oh, that's right. They're a "luxury" car... That's the only thing I ever hear from the Tesla fanboys when discussing the car versus everything else.
1. Re:Really? by alexander_686 · 2014-10-07 07:33 · Score: 1
  
  1. Almost all auto dealerships are franchise operations. Tesla owns theirs outright.
  2. Most used cars are not sold through a dealership.
  Private sales and 3rd party dealerships are common.
  Even when somebody trades in used vehicle for a new one it rarely shows up on that dealer's lot. Normally it goes to auction where some other used car dealer buys it up.
  Is this a subtle assault on the 1st sale doctrine, keeping the cars within Tesla's system?
2. Re:Really? by gurps_npc · 2014-10-07 07:43 · Score: 2
  
  You are ignoring leases, which in particular are common for Tesla.
  Like all leases, you don't 'sell' the car back or 'trade' the car in. Instead, your lease ends and the car returns to the owner. Despite their propaganda, if you leased a car, that means you never actually owned the car.
  This is not a Tesla's assault on 1st sale doctrine. Instead, it is a common practice, which I like to call the ZERO sale doctrine. The cars - in both Tesla's program and more traditional programs never were sold at all.
  
  --
  excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
3. Re:Really? by Anonymous Coward · 2014-10-07 08:03 · Score: 0
  
  Tesla seems to do everything in an unconventional manner Why? Because they call their dealerships "stores?" And you guys make fun of Apple? LOLzzz I really don't understand what people think Tesla is bringing to the market other than the best range in an EV. Oh, that's right. They're a "luxury" car... That's the only thing I ever hear from the Tesla fanboys when discussing the car versus everything else.
  Bang those specs against any other similar "luxury" brand, and let me know how the Tesla looks like a damn Pinto by comparison. Then we can argue how wrong the "premium" or "luxury" label is.
  Until then, I'd say they're holding their own given the resistance they're getting for being successful.
4. Re:Really? by ericloewe · 2014-10-07 08:22 · Score: 1
  
  Nobody's keeping the owners from selling their cars to somebody else if they so desire, so there's no "assault on the 1st sale doctrine".
5. Re:Really? by Anonymous Coward · 2014-10-07 08:23 · Score: 0
  
  Ok. Name the specs that you think makes Telsa a luxury vehicle and we'll talk.
6. Re:Really? by alexander_686 · 2014-10-07 08:55 · Score: 1
  
  You are half right - but that means you kind of misses my point. What happens to leased cars after they are returned?
  Technically they revert to the leasing company, not the dealership or manufactory. In practice this means that they get dumped onto the used car market. This means when the lease holder drops off the car at the dealership (which is a franchise) at the end of the lease, they tend to have the same dance as when bringing in a trade in. Not exactly the same – leases throws in some weird quirks – but it is in the same class.
  I have seen some weird conflicts of interest between dealerships and manufactures. Manufactory put out a sweet lease deal 2 to 5 years ago, and then the cars start getting returned with a high residual value, so there is a large dump of overpriced vehicles onto the used market. Nobody comes out a winner here.
  Which is why I think Tesla might be doing this. It would give them greater control over their used car market.
  As for not owing the car – technically correct but that misses some points. In some ways it is better than owning a car. All auto leases have option for you to buy the car at the end of the lease. This puts the leaseholder in the proverbial driver's seat. I have seen people execute the option, buy out the car, then turn around and sell the car for a higher price. I have seen other people return the car and then buy it back from the dealership for thousands less. (Personally, I don't like leases because I think they have a higher total cost of ownership. But that would be a different thread.)
7. Re:Really? by FlyHelicopters · 2014-10-07 08:58 · Score: 1
  
  All auto leases have option for you to buy the car at the end of the lease. This puts the leaseholder in the proverbial driver's seat. I have seen people execute the option, buy out the car, then turn around and sell the car for a higher price.
  My local GMC dealership is even easier to work with...
  If the truck is worth more than the lease end value, they don't make you bother with buying the car and trading it in, they'll buy it and credit you the difference in value and apply it to the next truck, or write you a check.
  Saves a transaction and having to have the cash to pay for the buyout value. One of the services they offer.
8. Re:Really? by alexander_686 · 2014-10-07 09:01 · Score: 1
  
  Well, no – not directly – that is why I said subtle. An analogy might be made to Apple's iPhones. Apple can't legally prevent you from going to a 3rd party repair shop. However, they do make things difficult. If you do so you void the warranty, they use special screws, they don't publish repair manuals, etc. I think this might be more akin to a nudge than a full out assault.
9. Re:Really? by alexander_686 · 2014-10-07 09:08 · Score: 1
  
  So let me ask a follow up question. How do you and your dealer know that your leased car's residual value is less than the market value? Answer – because there is a robust 3rd party market for those vehicles. Compile the national data from the auction sales, extrapolate the differences between sold cars and yours (basically mileage and options) and you have a pretty good idea of what is happening.
  But what if Tesla grabs a good portion of that data because they are running the leased cars through their own system and not sharing that data. Thinner public sales means you need to kick out your confidence intervals. This strengthens Tesla's hand because they actually know what is going on.
  I am pushing things a little, but I can see this giving Tesla a slight advantage.
10. Re:Really? by gurps_npc · 2014-10-07 09:10 · Score: 2
  
  In generally, leases give huge benefits to the leaser at the cost of guy doing the leasing.
  Leases usually overcharge the 'renter'. The renter is pushing off risk from themselves to the leasing company and they pay HIGHLY for that.
  Let's face it, those situations where people turn in and buy or buy it back then sell it at a profit mean the company screwed up somehow - or intentionally overpriced things.
  Basically, leases are designed by the companies to make THEM money. They throw in added complexity which always makes it harder for a person to make decisions.
  
  --
  excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
11. Re:Really? by Noah+Haders · 2014-10-07 09:25 · Score: 1
  
  the most important spec that defines a luxury vehicle: $90k.
12. Re:Really? by FlyHelicopters · 2014-10-07 09:26 · Score: 1
  
  I see your point, and it is a fair one...
  The same issue exists of course with any low production item... Try it with a Ferrari for example, some models are made in the hundreds of copies only...
  Tesla will have control, until they start building hundreds of thousands of cars a year, then they'll lose it.
13. Re:Really? by tlhIngan · 2014-10-07 09:54 · Score: 1
  
  1. Almost all auto dealerships are franchise operations. Tesla owns theirs outright.
  2. Most used cars are not sold through a dealership.
  Private sales and 3rd party dealerships are common.
  Even when somebody trades in used vehicle for a new one it rarely shows up on that dealer's lot. Normally it goes to auction where some other used car dealer buys it up.
  Is this a subtle assault on the 1st sale doctrine, keeping the cars within Tesla's system?
  I don't see anywhere where it blocks the sale of Teslas by other people. In fact, right now, you can buy used Tesla Model S', but they cost MORE than from the factory.
  If you wanted to trade your Model S at a dealer to buy a new Ford or whatever, you certainly can do it. No one said you have to sell your used Tesla back to Tesla.
  And lots of dealers have "certified pre-owned" programs - walk into any luxury marque's lot and if you can't afford new, they'll show you their certified pre-owned ones. Lots of dealerships have pre-owned sections of their lots - they may auction off the off-marque cars they took in, but they probably just service their own and put it up for sale.
14. Re:Really? by Anonymous Coward · 2014-10-07 15:44 · Score: 0
  
  no, that only defines an EXPENSIVE vehicle
15. Re:Really? by Shirley+Marquez · 2014-10-08 02:03 · Score: 1
  
  All of the original Big Three car makers and many other car makers offer their own lease programs. In that case the car IS reverting to the manufacturer, or at least to its financial branch.
16. Re:Really? by alexander_686 · 2014-10-08 03:27 · Score: 1
  
  Are you sure? I thought that GM and Chrysler had to sell their finance division when they slid into bankruptcy.
You don't purchase back leased cars by gurps_npc · 2014-10-07 07:35 · Score: 4, Interesting

The lease ends and the cars are returned to the company that already owned them.
I know corporations like to pretend that lease = own, but they are not the same.

--
excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
1. Re:You don't purchase back leased cars by FlyHelicopters · 2014-10-07 07:54 · Score: 1
  
  Meh... I don't own my truck until the last payment is made, the title is in the hands of the finance company. :)
  Now a HOUSE you own, even with a mortgage, the deed is in your name...
  But a car? Unless you pay cash for it, you don't own it...
  That is why a car can be repossessed in 5 minutes, a house can take 60 days to a year to take away from you. (among other reasons)
2. Re:You don't purchase back leased cars by Paco103 · 2014-10-07 08:17 · Score: 2
  
  When I bought my car I had title in hand in my name. It had a lien on the back, but the title had my name on the front.
  And there are some other differences, much like in the home market. I own my home, but the bank has a lien on it. I get to decide what colors I paint the walls, any upgrades or additions I want to do, if pets or guests are allowed, etc. The bank doesn't make those decisions like the landlord did for my apartment or rental house.
  Similarly, a leased car has many restrictions. Usually something like 15,000 miles per year maximum without penalties. I drive too much for that. Modifications are usually not allowed or heavily restricted. I have radio equipment and auxiliary lighting installed in mine, as well as customized interior shelving in the cargo area (SUV). Trailer towing equipment is often not allowed unless it's a truck with a specific towing package at the time of lease. My loan agreement also specified either 30 or 60 days default for repossession. I don't remember exactly, it's been paid off for years and I have no payments. With a leased car, the payments never end in a situation where you get to keep a car. Sometimes the lease buyout option is more than buying the similar car. I know someone that wanted to keep her leased car, but due to the lease buyout price she ended up giving it back and just going to buy the same used car somewhere else.
3. Re:You don't purchase back leased cars by FlyHelicopters · 2014-10-07 08:41 · Score: 1
  
  Perhaps your state or country works differently...
  I don't get the title to my truck until the last payment is made, then the finance company mails it to me...
4. Re:You don't purchase back leased cars by edtice1559 · 2014-10-07 08:41 · Score: 1
  
  Your friend could have bought out their car for the same price as the used car somewhere else. One of the big advantages of closed-end auto leasing (the most common kind) is that there is a lease buyout price at the end. If the car is worth more than that, you buy the care for the buyout price. If it is worth less than the fair market value of the car, you negotiate to buy it at fair market value. The leasing company doesn't have a magic way to turn the used car into an asset worth as much as the lease buyout price. They are going to sell it at FMV. There are legal differences between leases and loans but from a financial standpoint, the lease is just a simple-interest loan where you also get a put option to sell the vehicle back for the buyout price.
5. Re:You don't purchase back leased cars by Paco103 · 2014-10-07 09:13 · Score: 1
  
  I'm sure that is true, but some dealers have more desire to negotiate, some feel the number listed is the only number. It's the same reason it's sometimes worth driving a couple hundred miles to buy a new car, even when sales tax is the same. You'd think they'd lose business by never negotiating, but based on the number of people I know that actually paid sticker for their new cars, I guess it works for them.
6. Re:You don't purchase back leased cars by Kjella · 2014-10-07 10:21 · Score: 1
  
  Well, the 43%-50% guarantee price is for Tesla Financing, which is not actually a lease. It's a 60-90% loan financed purchase with a buyback guarantee from Tesla where you may sell it back after 3 years, you must exercise that option within 3 months or the offer is no longer valid. So in that case, it's a lease-like arrangement with an actual purchase back price. Apparently they also have a real lease program, under financing there's three options with cash being the third of course. I don't think many will use that option though, 50-60% value loss in three years seems very high so I think it's mainly just a safety net for early adopters worried the second hand price will fall like a stone.
  
  --
  Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
7. Re:You don't purchase back leased cars by FlyHelicopters · 2014-10-07 10:37 · Score: 1
  
  You my dear sir, get a cookie for a great answer. :)
  Yea, that is it exactly... Still, one downside to leasing is that the penalties to break it can be expensive in the first year or two. Worse than for a loan. Yes, the value is the value, but they often can stick you for worse if you have to break it.
  One huge mistake that people make with leases is that they focus on the payment, not the other numbers. The purchase price does affect payment, but so much can be done to mess around with the deal and arrive at a monthly number that you can live with, and leave the dealer with a lot of profit.
  Me? I am right to the point... I buy new for several reasons, one of which is that I can always say, "you know, this exact same vehicle is sold by 10 other dealers in 30 minutes of driving, it doesn't take much of a price break to make 30 minutes of driving worthwhile".
8. Re:You don't purchase back leased cars by Anonymous Coward · 2014-10-07 11:02 · Score: 0
  
  The put option you described is actually what Tesla offered. Buy the car, and they guarantee to buy it back after two years. But you initially plunked down (either cash or financing) the purchase price of the entire car. In a true lease, only the anticipated depreciation is financed.
9. Re:You don't purchase back leased cars by mattack2 · 2014-10-08 13:26 · Score: 1
  
  That is why a car can be repossessed in 5 minutes, a house can take 60 days to a year to take away from you. (among other reasons)
  I know you were talking about leasing, but it's been in the news recently about people with cars that were shut off remotely for late payment of car loans have been threatening to sue due to laws in some states about a loan not being delinquent for 30 days, yet the car would be remotely turned off within a few days of the "due date" on the monthly payment.
10. Re:You don't purchase back leased cars by FlyHelicopters · 2014-10-08 15:26 · Score: 1
  
  Fair enough... And I agree with you, until the loan is actually delinquent, the car should be yours to use peacefully.
  So if they are taking action before it is legally delinquent, then that would be wrong.
  The point I was trying to make is that 5 minutes AFTER it becomes delinquent, you can take the car. You CANNOT do that with a house. There are all sorts of notices you must send, you have to file with the court, provide time to the owner to catch up, etc. Then you have to file for foreclosure and that is something that the legal system does. If the owner doesn't take care of it, the house will be auctioned on the court house steps.
  And they really do it that way, I've been to such auctions, right outside the front doors to the courthouse.
  What they CANNOT do is just show up at your door and throw you out of the house.
Why lease a Tesla? by Anonymous Coward · 2014-10-07 07:35 · Score: 0

I checked Tesla's website and leasing a Model S is about the same price per month as financing, in some instances more expensive. The only thing missing from the initial Tesla Model S lease page is length of the lease which is odd to me because that's kind of important. Seems like an odd decision to lease a Tesla at all you'd probably be able to do better than 43-50% after a couple years anyway.
I don't know maybe it's just cars in the $70-90k range are like that because of the size of the loan you'd be taking on financing, and the amount you'd still have on the loan if you tried to sell after 3 years or so.
Indeed by goldcd · 2014-10-07 07:41 · Score: 1

With a 'normal' car you get to see the mileage and whether "it looks OK at a glance" but that's about all you can tell about what kind of life it had previously.
With a Tesla I don't see why you couldn't theoretically pull the entire black-box history.
I'd like to buy a Tesla that never exceeded the speed limit and was only driven to church on a Sunday etc etc.
1. Re:Indeed by bobbied · 2014-10-07 09:43 · Score: 1
  
  I'd like to buy a Tesla that never exceeded the speed limit and was only driven to church on a Sunday etc etc.
  Here's your new car sir....
  
  --
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So... A glorified personal contract purchase? by abigsmurf · 2014-10-07 08:01 · Score: 1

Plenty of car manufacturers will offer deals that you a guaranteed buyback value of a car 'bought' on PCP over here. It's usually a hook to get you to use that money as a deposit on buying another car from that dealer. Pay £3000 to 'buy' the 4 year old car you've been driving or get £3000, put that down as a deposit on a slightly better car and keep on paying what you were for your old car and have a bit of spare change to splash out on a holiday. I know Fiat offered this last time I went into a dealer.

As always with PCPs, sounds a great deal until you hand back the car and there's a 5p per mile over-usage penalty, that mark that looks like a fingerprint is totally a scratch that costs £100 to fix, you'll need to buy 4 new tyres despite the old ones only having 5000 miles on them...
Opportunity by ArcadeMan · 2014-10-07 08:19 · Score: 2

Who's going to be the first to open "Stan's Previously Used Teslas"?

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1. Re:Opportunity by Anonymous Coward · 2014-10-07 08:47 · Score: 4, Funny
  
  Stan.
2. Re:Opportunity by Anonymous Coward · 2014-10-07 09:31 · Score: 0
  
  That's worthy of both a +1 Funny and a +1 Woosh.
Foamy the Squirrel had it right. by user+no.+590291 · 2014-10-07 10:05 · Score: 1

Start at 1:49.
Leasing a car... by MMC+Monster · 2014-10-07 10:50 · Score: 2

I never understoof the fascination of leasing a car for an individual. I can understand for a company, but most cars are worth something at the time the lease is over. Why give it back or have to go through more tortuous negotiating to buy the car then?
If you can't afford to buy a car, perhaps you should look into a cheaper car.
(I'm discounting those that lease $15K cars, since most leases are for more expensive models.)

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1. Re:Leasing a car... by maz2331 · 2014-10-07 11:30 · Score: 1
  
  As a CPO buyer, I don't care why they do it, but do like that I can get a 2 or 3 year old car at a substantial discount, while facing a much shallower depreciation curve. A BMW dealer mentioned to me that about 1/2 of their business is leases and about 1/2 is CPO & Used sales. Relatively few people buy outright new.
2. Re:Leasing a car... by choseph · 2014-10-07 17:41 · Score: 1
  
  When we bought our Leaf we were told 95% of people were leasing them. I think I found some numbers that showed similar high lease numbers. I guess people were treating it like a new phone -- something they'd want to upgrade when the new model with a little bit larger battery and shiny new feature came out. For me, we bought -- it had the new battery chemistry so they degraded much more slowly and we figure given the warrantee we'll easily have a car with max 20% degraded battery when our oldest starts driving in 8yrs. We only charge it to 80% anyway, so that means we'll switch to 100% and act like nothing happened.
3. Re:Leasing a car... by TrollstonButterbeans · 2014-10-07 19:49 · Score: 1
  
  "I never understood the fascination of leasing a car for an individual."
  
  A car is a depreciating asset, it never goes up in value.
  
  In that sense, it doesn't make sense to want to "own the car". If you get, say, a TrueCars.com price on a lease, as an example, the cost of leasing versus the cost of owning is razor thin.
  
  But with leasing, you can always get out of the car and into another one with full warranty, a fixed turn-in value and security against unknown events like the car gets wrecks or damaged in an accident (leases state that as long as the repairs are done by a certified shop, that doesn't matter).
  
  Unless you plan on throwing miles on a high quality 100,000 mile car and run it forever, the cheapness and security of car leases if you do it right, is often more convenient than actually owning the vehicle. Buying saves a few bucks a month in the long run and more if you intend to keep it "forever", but most people don't keep their cars more than 3 to 5 years and if that's the plan, leasing has the lower payments and fewer unknowns.
  
  --
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4. Re:Leasing a car... by q4Fry · 2014-10-08 13:42 · Score: 1
  
  I bought a new (entirely coincidence: "Cash for Clunkers" brought new cars into used-car price range) car for the reliability scores. It has lasted 5 years already, and I'm hoping for another 10. When I bought it, my goal was to never buy another ICE vehicle, and I'm beginning to think that was a reasonable aspiration.
  
  The dealer asked if I wanted to trade it in for a newer model year "for the same or lower monthly payment." They lost interest when I asked if the payment would be lower than 0.
  
  I don't think I fit your leasing model.
5. Re:Leasing a car... by TrollstonButterbeans · 2014-10-08 18:21 · Score: 1
  
  I used to do the 'drive a car forever thing'. Now, I just want reliability and no worries. Driving a car for 15 years will always be the most economical.
  
  --
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enough Telsa propaganda by Anonymous Coward · 2014-10-07 12:18 · Score: 0

Always with the Telsa propaganda stories - who cares
Not many used Teslas available by Anonymous Coward · 2014-10-07 12:46 · Score: 0

I've been watching the used market from day one. There aren't many used cars, and the ones that do come up are basically exactly the same as new.
The reason is because they're being bought up and shipped overseas to places where there are wealthy people and no Tesla dealership.
Pre-Owned by Anonymous Coward · 2014-10-07 14:48 · Score: 0

Is that not like selling your wife, i.e. whore, to the highest bidder !
Ha
Musk is such a muck.
I saw about two dozen the last time I was by Brannon · 2014-10-07 15:52 · Score: 1

in California, I see on average one every few days in NYC. Tesla sales are very asymmetric, they have deep penetration in certain markets and almost none in others.
You sound really manly. Do you fly helicopters? by Brannon · 2014-10-07 15:58 · Score: 0

and you seem to be so wise about energy issues, but you're not a greenie. Wow, the complete package. How much does your SUV weigh?