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India Successfully Launches Region-Specific Navigation Satellite

Posted by timothy on from the gps-for-certain-values-of-g dept.

vasanth writes India has successfully launched IRNSS-1C, the third satellite in the Indian Regional Navigation Satellite System (IRNSS), early on October 16. This is the 27th consecutively successful mission of the PSLV(Polar Satellite Launch Vehicle). The entire constellation of seven satellites is planned to be completed by 2015. The satellite is designed to provide accurate position information service to users in the country as well as in the region extending up to 1,500 km from its boundary, which is its primary service area. In the Kargil war in 1999, the Indian military sought GPS data for the region from the U.S. The space-based navigation system maintained by the U.S. government would have provided vital information, but the U.S. denied it to India. A need for an indigenous satellite navigation system was felt earlier, but the Kargil experience made India realise its inevitability in building its own navigation system. "Geopolitical needs teach you that some countries can deny you the service in times of conflict. It's also a way of arm twisting and a country should protect itself against that," said S Ramakrishnan, director of Vikram Sarabhai Space Centre, Thiruvananthapuram.

86 comments

  1. Good job, India! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

    Great work, India! You've managed to catch up the 1950s-era Soviet Union and United States!

    1. Re:Good job, India! by war4peace · · Score: 5, Insightful

      What the fuck.
      How many countries have their own, in-house built GPS solutions?

      --
      ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
    2. Re:Good job, India! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      They are much better than that. At a minimum they are in the 80s as far as navigation startup.

      but they have a BIG advantage - faster processors, their own engineers...

    3. Re:Good job, India! by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 1

      And thanks to better processors, a little proliferation doesn't matter that much to consumers either. Modern GPS chips already support both GPS and Glonass, and will support Galileo as well when that goes up.

      --
      If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
    4. Re:Good job, India! by CaptainDork · · Score: 0

      To what degree does mod contribute to the conversation?

      --
      It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
    5. Re:Good job, India! by Chrisq · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The thing is that other countries are likely to continue to appease the Muslims as usual - as the article says even though Pakistan illegally invaded parts of India the US would not allow the Indian army access to the GPS. The only surprise is that India weren't declared Islamophobic for defending themselves, as happens elsewhere in the world.

    6. Re: Good job, India! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The US appeases many Muslim countries: Egypt, Bahrain and Saudi Arabia when it suits their needs. Don't act all high and mighty.

    7. Re: Good job, India! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Egypt, Bahrain, Saudi Arabia... Just a few Muslim countries that the US appeases. This article tells you that you're not always good at picking the right ally.

    8. Re:Good job, India! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      India isn't an ally of the US either. It wasn't that long ago when they were cozy-cozy with the Russians, then when the USSR fell, had to turn around and start diplomatic really quick. Earlier this year, when Putin was rattling his saber, India came a calling and showed that their old alliances still held.

      The TFA doesn't state why the GPS info was denied back in 1999, nor why. In fact, the linked article is more state propaganda than anything else. It doesn't seem far-fetched though. At that time, the administration in power was trying to do its best to sweep any Islamic attacks under the rug until the President's football got passed to another in 2001 so they wouldn't have to deal with it, so it might be understandable. Ironic thing is that this was done to benefit Pakistan, and Pakistan is even less of an ally of the US.

    9. Re:Good job, India! by mi · · Score: 0

      It is not Islam-specific. The equivocal attitude the US displayed during the Kargil conflict — when India was clearly the injured party — is not entirely unlike the attitude displayed this year towards Ukraine (where what few Muslims reside, all strongly resent the invader).

      Though Obama (as Clinton back in 1999) talks the talk of supporting the invaded victim, the US would only help with "non-lethal" supplies — and only after a significant delay.

      --
      In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    10. Re:Good job, India! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      70*.

    11. Re:Good job, India! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Read the article. This is mostly for military purposes.

      US denied them access to GPS data when Pakistani terrorist hid themselves on difficult to reach mountainous terrain during Kargil war. Hundreds of soldiers were killed in their attempt to retake the mountain peaks. In fact, India had to import a large number of laser guided bombs from Israel at $50 million a piece.

      Investment in technology save lives, develops nations and keeps you independent. If India has realized that, it should not be a surprise. Plus if your choice is to buy "7 satellites" vs "7 laser-guided" bombs from Israel, its a no-brainer what to choose.

    12. Re:Good job, India! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "buy 7 satellites" ----> sorry for the typo, I meant "build" 7 satellites.

    13. Re:Good job, India! by cheesybagel · · Score: 2

      India has been and is the major client of Russian weapons in the world. At one point, after the Sino-Soviet split, the Russians did not sell any weapons to the Chinese and today they still give preferential access to India. Like the aircraft carrier, the nuclear submarine, T-90 tanks, etc.

      India is considered by the Russians a strategic partner and counterweight against other forces in the region namely China and Pakistan. Iraq also used to be a strategic partner at one point. Syria still is.

    14. Re:Good job, India! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The thing is that other countries are likely to continue to appease the Muslims as usual - as the article says even though Pakistan illegally invaded parts of India the US would not allow the Indian army access to the GPS. The only surprise is that India weren't declared Islamophobic for defending themselves, as happens elsewhere in the world.

      Reason for that is that they have a population of a billion, which is close to the number of muzzies worldwide, hence nobody would do to them what they do to the Israelis or the Serbs or the Russians.

    15. Re:Good job, India! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Today's India is completely different from the India of then. Big difference being the Nehru clan. Plus this most recent government is neither a pro-Communist regime like the ones then, nor a pro-Islamic one like the ones then. India's biggest defense partner since the 90s has been Israel. At the time of these incidents - Kargil - Bill Clinton was the president, and he had a major beef with India after they did their nuclear tests and declared themselves officially a nuclear power.

    16. Re:Good job, India! by unixisc · · Score: 1

      Except that today, China is very much an ally of Russia (or maybe even vice versa). That famous Sino-Soviet split of the 60s is long over - one country is no longer communist, and the other is no longer ruled by Communists. Russia currently doesn't have geopolitical interests - it's just gathering all the allies that it can find. It's a pity that they aren't more discriminating about it, and even giving support to countries like Iran, Syria and North Korea.

      Similarly, China was once a major ally of Pakistan, but due to Uyghar jihadis getting their support in Afghanistan and even in Pakistan, that friendship has become lukewarm. Even though Pakistan remains a major market for Huawei outside China

    17. Re: Good job, India! by cavreader · · Score: 2

      The US doesn't appease Muslim Countries they do exactly what all the US haters want and ignore any internal policies that doesn't threaten US interests. One good example would be the 3 billion dollars the US has paid Egypt to stop working against Israel. It's work. Why should the US care about repression in Bahrain as long as the big naval base is being provided and paid for by the Bahrain government? Why should the US censure Saudi Arabia as long as they manage output to keep the oil prices at an acceptable level? People can't complain about US foreign interventions and undue influence then turn around and criticize the US for not using their authority to aid those being suppressed by their own governments . And the only solution to solve that paradox is for people to recognize it is not the US's burden or responsibility to protect the well being of foreign populations. For every benefit or bribe the US may offer to foreign countries to further US interests there is always someone willing to sellout the well being of their own citizens. Without that caveat the US would have very little power outside of military power ant that doesn't work well due to both foreign and domestic political side effects. The same applies to the other world leading countries such as China and Russia. I will leave Europe out it because they have neither the wealth or resources and their military power is non-existent without US assistance and the US will only provide that if they have something to gain.

    18. Re:Good job, India! by cheesybagel · · Score: 1

      What is wrong with having dealings with Syria? The regime is dictatorial and is a de facto monarchy but I never heard of them treating their citizens like North Korea does or having an enforced state religion like in Iran. In fact I cannot think much bad I can say about Iran that does not happen even worse in Saudi Arabia.

    19. Re:Good job, India! by stoatwblr · · Score: 1

      "Except that today, China is very much an ally of Russia (or maybe even vice versa)."

      China and Russia are ancient foes. The Soviet-sino alliance was the abberation, not the norm.

      At the moment there's very little love lost between China and Russia and any alliances are out of necessity. The chinese have made it clear on a number of occasions that they're not fans of Putin's form of government (the chinese govt regard him as a destabilising influence, as they're very aware that global peace makes for better trading than endless wars do)

      There are only a few places one can cross the Chinese/Russia border and that's a chinese decision. If they were buddy-buddy the border would be far more porous.

      Going back to India's navigation system: It's as much about flagwaving as it is about actual regional stability. This is the same reason the french maintain their own navigation systems, separate to any EU projects.

    20. Re:Good job, India! by unixisc · · Score: 1

      How are China & Russia ancient foes? Before the Cold War, the 2 hardly had any contact with each other. Rather, it was the Mongols who had a lot of interaction with both, but not of a nature that would bring Russia & China together.

      China today has the same policies as Russia on Iran, Syria and North Korea: how are they not allies? In China's case, they have a lot more to gain by supporting their biggest trading partner - the US, than antagonizing us over these 3. In Russia's case, I understand their desperation - Iran and Syria are the only markets for their Soviet era weaponry, but in China's case, it's a lot broader.

      As for Russia-China's border today, their only border is in the east, in Manchuria. Otherwise, Russia, Mongolia, China & Kazakhstan have a common point where their borders meet, ensuring that there's no border b/w Russia and China west of Mongolia. If you are referring to China's borders w/ the 'stans', China has a good reason for having them closed: they have a restive Uyghur population in Xinxiang, which has ties to Jihadi campaigns in the stans, particularly in Kyrgyzstan.

      In case of India, few Indians notice these things when they come up in the news: people are a lot more interested in events within the country. India's reason here is legit - absense this, they'd have Jihadis cross the borders into India via Kashmir, and would have little control on intercepting them

    21. Re:Good job, India! by cheesybagel · · Score: 1

      You don't get it. Iran was never a major weapons client of the Russians. In the time of the Shah their major supplier was the US/UK and ever since they have dealt with a motley collection of rotting equipment. Iraq was the state being supplied by the Soviet Union back during the Iran/Iraq war while the Iranians used previous stock, weapons dropped by Iraqi soldiers, or whatever. The major weapons clients of Russia have been India, Venezuela and China to a degree.

      Syria is a strategic matter of having some degree of control over that area of the Mediterranean they are not a particularly large or rich country so they will never be a major weapons client.

    22. Re:Good job, India! by unixisc · · Score: 1

      Cold War era, Syria was a major weapons client of the Soviets. Major reason was that they were the only ones in an active war against Israel, which had both its own, and US weaponry. The Soviets wanted to see how they do in battle, and 1983 was when they got to see it. Of course, a good part of it has to do with the personnel - while the Israelis may have creamed the Syrians, the Indians, w/ Soviet weaponry as well, was usually on top of Pakistan.

      Iran wasn't a client of the Soviets during the Khomenei regime. It became that after Iraq's military got decimated, since the Soviets needed replacement sales, and ideology was no longer a stumbling block b/w Teheran and Moscow once the Soviet Union collapsed. China was a client very early, but after the Sino-Soviet rift, they drifted apart, and China makes its own weapons.

      India's primary arms partner since the fall of the Soviets has been Israel

    23. Re:Good job, India! by cheesybagel · · Score: 1

      It is correct that is was hard for the Soviet Union to support a theocratic state like Iran for ideological reasons. But despite intermittent reports I have heard of no major weapons sales to Iran.

      The Soviet Union at one point supplied Egypt, Syria and Iraq in their fight against Israel. While Israel, which used to be supplied by the French and British, later lost that support and got US support instead. Egypt eventually dropped out of the Soviet sphere after the Camp David accords so now they are an US weapons consumer since they basically get them for free. Iraq was more of a mixed bag as they buy all kinds of hardware since Saddam fell. Syria is the one still only having Russia as a weapons supplier. There are reports of the rebels having access to Chinese small weapons bought with Saudi and Qatari money but if the Chinese actually support the Syrian opposition it makes little sense as they have current oil interests in Iraq and would be better served by a stable government there. It is probably just the usual problem of the Chubese selling too many weapons to too many people.

  2. Re: How many GPS systems are there? by dwheeler · · Score: 4, Informative

    I know of at least the following systems that exist or are being built: GPS (United States), GLONASS (Russia), Galileo (planned, European Union), Indian Regional Navigation Satellite System (India), and the Beidou Navigation Satellite System (China). GPS and GLONASS, in particular, have been around a long time.

    --
    - David A. Wheeler (see my Secure Programming HOWTO)
  3. Region-Specific by rossdee · · Score: 0

    So this satellite only orbits above India?

    That must be a tricky orbit.

    You could have one sitting above Sri Lanka (well a little bit to the south) 25,000 miles up.

    1. Re:Region-Specific by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It must be great having no idea how anything works. It makes it so much easier to be snarky.

      Satelite navigation systems work by measuring the time difference between signals from more than one satellite. A minimum of 3 for a 2D fix, a minimum of 4 if you want to add a dimension and get altitude information as well. So you make a regional system by setting up the orbits so that there are always 3-4 satellites visible from the region of interest. Occasionally you will be able to get a fix elsewhere in the world, but usually not.

      You see. Not tricky at all.

    2. Re:Region-Specific by Rich0 · · Score: 1

      Agree. It isn't clear to me how one implements a "regional GPS." You could certainly implement a global one and then disable it outside of the region (ie satellites don't broadcast when they're not near India). Maybe a few in geosync might work - they would all lie on the equator so the solution to the problem would allow for a position in either India or the Indian ocean, and if it is "regional" they could just exclude the southern solution. I'm not sure what the accuracy would be like since all your fixes would come from satellites without much angular separation.

    3. Re:Region-Specific by tshawkins · · Score: 2

      IRNSS sats are geostationary, they are positioned above india and dont move.

    4. Re:Region-Specific by tshawkins · · Score: 3

      http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki...

    5. Re:Region-Specific by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 1

      So you make a regional system by setting up the orbits so that there are always 3-4 satellites visible from the region of interest. Occasionally you will be able to get a fix elsewhere in the world, but usually not.

      Actually, while it's generally pretty trivial to make sure 3-4 (5+ would be better) are visible from any given point on Earth, it's rather harder (read: nearly impossible) to make sure 3-4 are visible from any point in India but NOT from any point outside India.

      Unless the satellites are in geosynchronous orbits, of course, but then you're not going to have the separations you need for a good solution.

      Realistically, India needs an array like GPS or GLONASS, not just seven satellites.

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    6. Re:Region-Specific by tomhath · · Score: 1

      I'm pretty sure they know where their ground stations are located so they can adjust as needed. Plus the orbit calculations would already take the influence of the other planets into consideration.

    7. Re:Region-Specific by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      Great link, ty.
      The "Such an arrangement would mean all seven satellites would have continuous radio visibility with Indian control stations." and "A network of 21 ranging stations located across the country will provide data for the orbit determination of the satellites and monitoring of the navigation signal." should help most readers understand the navigation system.
      Great news from India and it shows the long term design efforts. Fully understanding the science and been able to build the needed systems at a national level has allowed for the year by year growth.
      "But we are convinced that if we are to play a meaningful role nationally, and in the community of nations, we must be second to none in the application of advanced technologies to the real problems of man and society." has worked out well.
      from Indian Space Research Organisation at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    8. Re:Region-Specific by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Three of them yes. 3:4 in geostationary vs geosynchronous orbit of 1 sidereal day.
      So, three will always be visible over india. Two of the other other four will be timed such that they are over India in a 24 hour period.
      So, 5 satellites will provide a fix.
      Hope that helps.

    9. Re:Region-Specific by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      3:4 in geostationary vs geosynchronous orbit of 1 sidereal day.
      So, three will always be visible over india. Two of the other other four will be timed to say over India always in a 24 hour period.
      So, 5 satellites will provide a fix. More can always be added. Operational by 2015, extensions and additions later.
      Hope that helps.

    10. Re:Region-Specific by Rich0 · · Score: 1

      Thanks. The geosynchronous orbits are probably the key - at any time one would be far enough above the equator to provide the necessary angular separation to improve accuracy.

    11. Re:Region-Specific by plover · · Score: 4, Interesting

      You jest, but it's a real problem they are solving by creating their own Indian standard time infrastructure.

      The entire system is being designed, built, launched, flown, and operated in India, by Indians, with absolutely no foreign dependencies. Having been burned more than a few times in their short existence by various nations who disagreed with their internal decisions, they take their independence very seriously. This is slightly different than the average American who pretty much takes their own independence for granted these days.

      --
      John
    12. Re:Region-Specific by stoatwblr · · Score: 1

      "Unless the satellites are in geosynchronous orbits, of course, but then you're not going to have the separations you need for a good solution."

      The satellites are at geosynchronous altitude but located off the Clarke Belt. This results in a constellation of satellites which appear to move north/south or in a figure 8 above a fixed point on earth.

      The japanese system is setup the same way - in that case resulting in rather good australian coverage, but other than Sri Lanka there's nothing due south of India except a few military bases in the southern Indian Ocean.

      The footprint for Japan's system is well-described at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q... - and trhe indian system is more or less the same prionciple.

    13. Re:Region-Specific by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The entire system is being designed, built , launched, flown, and operated in India, by Indians

      "built..in India, by Indians"?
      Neat trick, given India doesn't have semiconductor fabrication capabilities

  4. Shorter with coordinates. by BlackPignouf · · Score: 3, Funny

    director of Vikram Sarabhai Space Centre, Thiruvananthapuram

    With the added benefit that saying "8.460N,76.963E" is much faster than pronouncing this city name!

    1. Re:Shorter with coordinates. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      director of Vikram Sarabhai Space Centre, Thiruvananthapuram

      With the added benefit that saying "8.460N,76.963E" is much faster than pronouncing this city name!

      Thiruvananthapuram = Thiru + Anantha + Puram = Lord + Anantha (another name of Krishna) + Home

      In other words it means "City of Lord Anantha"

  5. India Successfully Launches by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Test The space-based navigation system maintained by the U.S. government would have provided vital information, but the U.

    1. Re:India Successfully Launches by tomhath · · Score: 2

      Dang. Didn't take them long to liquidate that guy...

  6. Re: How many GPS systems are there? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Quasi-zenith (Japan) is missing in your list.

  7. Re: How many GPS systems are there? by nucrash · · Score: 1

    Japan's sortof counts because their GPS system is actually an enhancement of the United States GPS system in that Quazizenith will be able to track down to centimeters. Hopefully something the US GPS will never do.

    --
    Place something witty here
  8. Re: How many GPS systems are there? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Commercial and foreign access of GPS are intententionally. Military GPS aka Precise GPS is very, very accurate.

  9. Re: How many GPS systems are there? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Chinas was stolen from usa so it doesnt countã

  10. Re: How many GPS systems are there? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    GPS (US GNSS) already "tracks" to the SUB centimeter level (carrier phase psuedo-range measurements) - used in tectonic analysis and general survey applications.

  11. Re:GPS by wiredlogic · · Score: 2

    The US can turn on SA and degrade positional accuracy whenever they want (by global region). The Russians can't be trusted either. Countries with satellite guided munitions don't want to face the risk of missing their target.

    --
    I am becoming gerund, destroyer of verbs.
  12. Re:GPS by the_B0fh · · Score: 1

    You are missing a sarcasm tag, hopefully.

  13. Re:GPS by tshawkins · · Score: 1

    US has been known to shut down gps over regions during conflicts, last happend to india in 1999. India like eu, china, and russia now want thier own systems so they are not dependent on the USs goodwill and support.

  14. Re:GPS by __aaltlg1547 · · Score: 2

    US has been known to shut down gps over regions during conflicts, last happend to india in 1999. India like eu, china, and russia now want thier own systems so they are not dependent on the USs goodwill and support.

    I expect at least GLONASS is also designed to be able to spoof GPS.

  15. Re:GPS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In addition to SA (which others have covered), most consumer grade GPS chips are made in a way where the hardware stops working if certain velocity and altitude parameters are exceeded, specifically to prevent use of consumer devices for military purposes.

  16. Re: How many GPS systems are there? by war4peace · · Score: 4, Informative

    Therefore, from the in-house GPS perspective, india is in top 5 countries. I'd say that's quite an achievement.

    --
    ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
  17. Re:GPS by justaguy516 · · Score: 1

    This has something to do with India's recent increased interest in cruise missiles. The Indian Armed forces just recently tested a sub-sonic, nuclear capable cruise missile.

  18. Re:And meanwhile by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And many people in the US don't even have "indoor". Cardboard boxes doesn't count.

    How many homeless people froze to death in the US last winter?

  19. recently tested cruise missile by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    this probably ties in with the successful test of the Indian cruise missile, they would want their own navigation system for it...
    http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/world/2014-10/17/c_133723891.htm

  20. Re:And meanwhile by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    India's people are quite impoverished and many of the home don't even have indoor plumbing.

    India had to import laser guided bombs (at close to 50 million a piece) from Israel and the US to remove Pakistani terrorists (in fact, Pakistani military dressed as mujjahideens). Where were all these "lets build more plumbing" crusaders then?

    History has shown that countries that don't advance technologically perish. If a small island like Britain could rule 150 countries, it was because it excelled in innovation. Sorry, your argument about holding on with innovation has proven to be flawed for centuries.

  21. Re:And meanwhile by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I am always surprised to see a country with fabulous universities, and high standard of living, with people who are ignorant to the point of being stupid.

  22. Re: How many GPS systems are there? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why on earth would you consider more accurate GPS a bad thing? If it's "omg cell phones", they track you other ways (tower triangulation to ~10m) and you don't have to worry anyway, the class of oscillator it would take to track you at cm accuracy costs nearly as much as your entire phone (look em up, 'double oven crystal oscillator').

    Also, military guys are given GPS receivers that have the code to remove the scrambling in GPS and can in fact track at ~10cm accuracy as opposed to ~meter accuracy at the present. Frankly, I can see no meaningful use for going from 100cm to 10cm unless you're a particularly paranoid surveyor, but...

  23. Re:And meanwhile by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    what a stupid comment, Antrix Corporation, the commercial satellite wing of the Indian Space Agency has been responsible for various commercial activities, and did approximately US$240 million worth of business in 2013 and is looking at a bigger market share in the future.. It would be stupid to spend all the resource on only alleviating poverty. Technology advance, creating an environment for their educated workforce and alleviating poverty all need to go hand in hand...

  24. Re: How many GPS systems are there? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I understand the US intends to remove that restriction as it doesn't exist in Gallileo and some modernisation to keep up with the accuracy of Gallileo. Glonass is more accurate in the far north (slightly less elsewhere).

  25. Re:And meanwhile by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Only the ones who refused the shelter that was offered. None were forced to remain outside.

  26. Re:And meanwhile by ragarwal · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Such claims makes you very one dimensional. Here is some basic economy. Let me explain at a level that may be comprehensible to you.

    You have a pickup truck with broken widows, firing only 3 out of 4 cylinders, leaking oil and a missing door. You have limited resources. You have small farm with some fish, sheep & chicken. Your daughter is an excellent cook and can whip up exotic goat-cheese egg frittata (an expensive dish). The neighborhood markets pay you decent money to supply this exotic dish.

    Will you:
    (1) Sell your chicken farm to immediately buy parts, fix your truck, and hope that it never breaks down again?
    (2) Try to keep selling goat-cheese-egg-frittatas, try to fix our truck a little at a time, while building a make-do fence around a farm?

    You fail to understand basic economics. You make these choices at your home everyday and at every level. You assess your risk of the worst case scenario and deploy a plan to get the most of the resources at your disposal.
    Have you ever met a family that went into debt, trying to put their kids to college, while ignoring replaying leaky window? Ever purchased an expensive new business suit for the annual conference while trying to squeeze extra 5,000 miles from your car tires?
    EVERYONE makes these choices, EVERYDAY and at EVERY level.

  27. Re:And meanwhile by ragarwal · · Score: 2

    Such claims makes you very one dimensional. Allow me explain at a level that may be comprehensible to you.

    You have a pickup truck with broken widows, firing only 3 out of 4 cylinders, leaking oil and a missing door. You have limited resources. You have small farm with some fish, sheep & chicken. Your daughter is an excellent cook and can whip up exotic goat-cheese egg frittata (an expensive dish). The neighborhood markets pay you decent money to supply this exotic dish.

    Will you:
    (1) Sell your chicken farm to immediately buy parts, fix your truck, and hope that it never breaks down again?
    (2) Try to keep selling goat-cheese-egg-frittatas, try to fix your truck a little at a time, while building a make-do fence around the farm?

    You fail to understand basic economics. You make these choices at your home everyday and at every level. You assess your risk of the worst case scenario and deploy a plan to get the most of the resources at your disposal.

    Have you (a) Ever met a family that went into debt, trying to put their kids thru college, ignoring leaky home windows? or (b) Ever purchased an expensive new business suit for annual company gala while squeezing extra 5,000 miles from your car tires?

    EVERYONE makes these choices, EVERYDAY and at EVERY level.

  28. Re:GPS by plover · · Score: 2

    I think we can safely assume that since Indian engineers are designing and building the chips they'll be using in their own system, it would certainly be possible for them to build their own GPS receivers that aren't subject to the American munitions export restrictions on velocity and altitude. They are doing this strictly for independence from all foreign influences.

    --
    John
  29. Re:And meanwhile by plover · · Score: 2

    Yes, many of India's people are impoverished. That condition has existed for thousands of years. Instead, look at the rate at which India has been lifting her people out of poverty. Forty years ago, less than 5% were wealthy, and she had virtually no middle class. Today, about a third of the people are middle class or wealthier. That means that about 400,000,000 people are a whole lot better off than their grandparents.

    They won't ever be able to eradicate poverty with the signing of a law, or with a "government cheese" kind of program. Instead, they know it takes a long time, and a strong competitive nation to provide her citizens with opportunities to lift themselves up. India has not been squandering her new independence. It's not perfect, it's not corruption-free, it's not smooth, and it's not fast. But what they have done in the last few decades has been nothing short of amazing.

    --
    John
  30. Re:And meanwhile by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You keep telling yourself that. None of the shelters in Minneapolis will let you in the door if you're drunk. If you're lucky, they call the cops before you get too far and you get to spend the night in lockup. Otherwise, it can be a cold night.

  31. Re:GPS by oobayly · · Score: 1

    Not on the Block IIIA Satellites - DoD Permanently Discontinues Procurement Of Global Positioning System Selective Availability. Granted, they're not in the sky yet, but the US military already has the capability to deny GPS to specific areas, so they wouldn't need it anyway.

    Remember, it was the FAA that was the force behind deactivating SA. Turning it back on now could well be more dangerous than just denying GPS and issuing a NOTAM.

  32. Re:And meanwhile by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yeah that's why I no longer call myself Australian!

  33. Re: How many GPS systems are there? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

    Japan has been putting up satellites to enhance and eventually provide an alternative to GPS over its territory too.

    Bottom line is, something that valuable to your military can't be shared with potentially hostile or uncooperative countries.

    --
    const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
    SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  34. Re:GPS by stoatwblr · · Score: 2

    There are a number of GPS receiver chip designs which are external to the USA (design and manufacture). The problem is that in order to be signed off as Navstar compatible and/or sold in the USA, they have to comply with Navstar's usage restrictions.

    Those requirements will probably be thrown out when Gallileo goes live.

    It's worth bearing in mind that the Gallileo consortium had to agree to a number of USA demands on operation, with the threat that if GPS systems weren't able to be shut down in certain areas, the USA would simply start shooting nonconforming satellites out of orbit. I suspect the same thing happens with Glonass, else the Indians could have used that in 1999 (it was functional then) and would probably happen to regional systems if it suited the USA/Russia/China (all 3 countries possess demonstrated anti-satellite missile capabilities.)

    Even without explosives, there's enough jamming capability in orbit to shut down a 3rd party's navigation satellites if desired.

  35. Re:And meanwhile by stoatwblr · · Score: 2

    GPS systems are proving to be far more valuable to indian civilians than the indian military. One of the greatest advances has been the use of GPS-guided farming systems and using GPS data from ground surveys to identify areas most vulnerable to flooding and move people.

    Yes, India has grinding poverty, but it's doing far more than the USA ever did to lift its people out of that - meantime the USA's poverty levels keep increasing.

    The interesting phenomenon which is emerging (and has emerged in every single country in the world that wealth has increased) is that the middle classes have fewer children. In a country threatened with overpopulation it seems the best way of alleviating this is to minimise poverty.

  36. Support for Syria by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If the Syrian regime wasn't a sponsor of terrorism against Israel via Hamas, Hizbullah and Islamic Jihad, I'd have nothing against them. As for how they treat their citizens, they persecute their Sunnis, but I don't hold that against them: they - the Alawites - would be persecuted if the shoe was on the other foot, which was clear when the Free Syrian Army (sic) overran cities like Aleppo and Homs and massacred/drove out Christians from those places. If this was a democratic uprising against the Assads, with due respect for religious pluralism, it would have been a lot easier to morally support the rebellion. In truth, the Free Syrian Army is not that much different from ISIS, and neither is Hamas, Hizbullah or Islamic Jihad

  37. Re:And meanwhile by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yeah I agree with you. Those impoverished Indians. Why can't they fix their toilets before looking at any of this. I really wish they would first put toilets & fix their slums. Here's some pics for those Indians to remind them how dirty and awful their country is: http://www.google.co.in/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CAcQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.skyscrapercity.com%2Fshowthread.php%3Ft%3D1561469%26page%3D3&ei=ooZEVJyxHoK1uASq1YHYCA&psig=AFQjCNFl_l05vC1Qm7_1K0tj8UKPPkquig&ust=1413863441250685 and of course: from Google search https://www.google.co.in/search?q=images+of+slums+in+detroit&num=100&newwindow=1&client=ubuntu&hs=Zp5&channel=fs&tbm=isch&imgil=n0Wp1TGybHJqUM%253A%253B-FLR7Ksvd-70fM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.forbes.com%25252Fsites%25252Ftechonomy%25252F2011%25252F10%25252F28%25252Ftake-back-the-city-gary-hustwits-urbanized%25252F&source=iu&pf=m&fir=n0Wp1TGybHJqUM%253A%252C-FLR7Ksvd-70fM%252C_&usg=__W1BV7BBWPeJGOnPtVKfXqLhznNE%3D&biw=1366&bih=615&ved=0CDMQyjc&ei=iIZEVJiIFYyJuAS42ILoDQ#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=aDY9wF_FO20wXM%253A%3BtH9o5XMDMoucEM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fpropago.files.wordpress.com%252F2009%252F03%252Fslum-mumbai1.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.skyscrapercity.com%252Fshowthread.php%253Ft%253D1561469%2526page%253D3%3B836%3B447

  38. Re:GPS by perryizgr8 · · Score: 1

    It is exclusively nuclear, AFAIK. No conventional warheads. Also, the navigation uses IRNSS exclusively (apart from inertial).

    --
    Wealth is the gift that keeps on giving.
  39. How do they stop at the borders by Neil+Boekend · · Score: 1

    How do they stop the service at the borders? Do the sats turn around?
    They are in polar orbits, so they cover the whole planet. How can that be considered regional?

    --
    Well, I might have a way, but it only works on a semi spherical planet in a vacuum.
  40. Re:And meanwhile by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You mean racist!! not stupid.