AT&T Locks Apple SIM Cards On New iPads

As reported by MacRumors, the unlocked, carrier-switchable SIM cards built into the newest iPads aren't necessarily so -- at least if you buy them from an AT&T store. Though the card comes from Apple with the ability to support (and be switched among with software, if a change is necessary) all major carriers, "AT&T is not supporting this interchangeability and is locking the SIM included with cellular models of the iPad Air 2 and Retina iPad mini 3 after it is used with an AT&T plan. ... AT&T appears to be the only participating carrier that is locking the Apple SIM to its network. T-Mobile's John Legere has indicated that T-Mobile's process does not lock a customer in to T-Mobile, which appears to be confirmed by Apple's support document, and Sprint's process also seems to leave the Apple SIM unlocked and able to be used with other carrier plans. Verizon, the fourth major carrier in the United States, did not opt to allow the Apple SIM to work with its network." The iPad itself can still be activated and used on other networks, but only after the installation of a new SIM.

Comments

Non-story?

[Anonymous Coward]

Seems like a non-story, don't most wireless providers require you to change the SIM when switching anyways?

Re:Non-story?

[FSWKU]

Seems like a non-story, don't most wireless providers require you to change the SIM when switching anyways?

I think that was the entire point of the Apple SIM. You could have one card, and go between carriers with a simple software switch. However, AT&T appears to be intentionally breaking that functionality to FORCE you to buy another Apple SIM if you want to switch. With T-Mobile and Sprint, you just pick which one you want. Tried Sprint, but T-Mo's coverage is better in your area? Just cancel the Sprint account and switch to your T-Mo account in the settings. But if you happen to pick AT&T at any point, that SIM can only EVER be used on AT&T, defeating the whole point of a multi-carrier SIM in the first place.

Re:Non-story?

[_xeno_]

Well, yes, but generally you buy the SIM through them and not through Apple.

Apparently with the new iPads one of the new features is that they come with "Apple SIMs" that instead of being a SIM provided by the cell provider are a SIM Apple provides. (Unless you're using it with Verizon, in which case you have to use a Verizon SIM. Except I thought Verizon and Sprint used CDMA which required something other than a SIM. Or maybe 4G LTE changes that. I haven't a clue how it works, other than for the longest time in the US if you wanted to use the same phone and change providers you could only do that between AT&T and T-Mobile and then even then you often couldn't because they didn't use the same bands.)

So, er, anyway. It's a story because it means that AT&T and Verizon are basically preventing one of the major new features on the iPad from working, which ultimately doesn't really matter because for the most part you can't just buy data a-la-cart in the US anyway so it's not like you're likely to be switching providers enough to make being able to keep the SIM useful.

Re: Non-story?

[Anonymous Coward]

AT&T will unlock if you call and ask. They want they oppertunity to try and keep your business before unlocking. Last I checked that's good business to try and keep your customer. That being said if you don't like it go with one of the carriers with significantly less LTE coverage.

Re:Non-story?

[Motard]

Didn't they subsidize your purchase of the phone when you chose to buy it from AT&T?

Re:Non-story?

[alen]

apple most likely made this to make it easier to manufacture ipads and cut costs. not to make it easy to switch carriers. all the ipads are the same except for the software. being able to dynamically adjust inventory is a money saver and lessens risk of inventory having to be discounted. for apple and the carriers. i bet they have some internal procedure to transfer unsold ipads between carrier stores just in case, because of the software sims

Re: Non-story?

[Anonymous Coward]

All of the current LTE models are sim based by all providers. CDMA and GSM are both 3G technology.

Re:Non-story?

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not a phone, motard, and they're locking up stuff not bought through them.

Re: Non-story?

[Austerity Empowers]

No. This is a terrible practice, it's anti-competitive and needs to be stopped. A customer should not have to justify his actions to leave, particularly when the reasons are usually blatantly obvious.

Re: Non-story?

[bigdaddybey]

That's a nice sentiment. That will never be reality however. Whether it's convenient or not as long as you are not harassed while switching than a business has every right to try to sway you (within reason) and nothing you say or do will change that. The sprints and T-Mobiles of the world are only doing this because they are literally going bankrupt trying to get customers. If they were not so desperate they would not be so customer friendly.

Re: Non-story?

[_xeno_]

How does that work when you're off the LTE network, though? LTE coverage may be generally "OK" where I live near a major city, but I know that my brother who uses Verizon frequently finds himself on whatever Verizon calls their CDMA data service when using data. (I think it's just "3G" but I don't remember.) Do you need a special CDMA card too or does it all use the same SIM card? I'm assuming it all uses the same SIM card? Or do the new iPads just not support CDMA at all?

I'm genuinely curious, I have no idea how the CDMA to LTE transition works. Not that it really matters to me since I'm currently on AT&T, but my family all uses Verizon and I have no clue what's going on with Verizon's transition to LTE.

Re:Non-story?

[Anonymous Coward]

Tried Sprint, but T-Mo's coverage is better in your area? Just cancel the Sprint account and switch to your T-Mo account in the settings.

Because swapping a SIM card is such a laborious task.

Re: Non-story?

[sribe]

Whether it's convenient or not as long as you are not harassed while switching than a business has every right to try to sway you (within reason) and nothing you say or do will change that.

Exactly what gives them the right to FUCK WITH MY EQUIPMENT AND DISABLE A KEY FEATURE???

Re: Non-story?

[bigdaddybey]

Every carrier has it in their contract whether it's fair or not. As a subscriber to a carrier myself I am not agreeing that I like what they can do nor do I think it's fair. If you think that you really have rights with any carrier than you haven't read their contracts...

Re: Non-story?

[yeshuawatso]

3G and under require CDMA radios for CDMA carriers. They have to be provisioned on the carriers network to work properly or they simply won't connect except for emergency calls. 4G and LTE variants all require SIM cards on all networks. T-Mo and AT&T are the only carriers (major anyway) that use SIM cards for GPRS,EDGE,3G, and 4G. I'm not sure if the new iPads support anything less than 4G though. I know Samsung has stopped supporting anything less than 3G on a few of their tablets (Note 10.1 2014 for example).

Re: Non-story?

[R.Mo_Robert]

AT&T will unlock if you call and ask. They want they oppertunity to try and keep your business before unlocking. Last I checked that's good business to try and keep your customer. That being said if you don't like it go with one of the carriers with significantly less LTE coverage.

This isn't about unlocking the device. All iPads are and have always been unlocked. This is about AT&T's decision to disable using the multi-carrier Apple SIM card (new with this iteration of iPads) on any carrier besides AT&T once you use it once with AT&T. (Does Apple even sell the Apple SIM card separately? Maybe in store, but it's certainly not on their website as of now. Your best bet would be just to get an AT&T SIM card if you want to use them and save the Apple card for cooperating carriers.)

Re: Non-story?

[bigdaddybey]

I absolutely agree with your point. If AT&T sees enough people leave them over this being the reason it will be changed quicker than you can type a reply to this conversation. However, both Verizon and AT&T clearly own the market share of subscribers and most likely won't be affected positively or negatively whether they choose to include or exclude this feature. This will be used as a marketing pitch for Sprint and T-Mobile as they are willing to do almost anything to woo new subscribers.

Re: Non-story?

[Lunix Nutcase]

How does that work when you're off the LTE network, though

You have a CDMA radio in the phone as well. How else do you expect that it works?

Re: Non-story?

[Hamsterdan]

I doubt they'll do it for free. It's uncompetitive and the FCC should step in (but won't)

Re: Non-story?

[BronsCon]

This isn't about equipment purchased from AT&T, on or off contract, with an AT&T SIM, SIM-locked to AT&T's network. This is about equipment purchased from Apple, off contract, with an Apple SIM, not SIM-locked to any network. AT&T is locking that Apple SIM (not the device) to AT&T's network, forcing you to buy another Apple SIM if you wish to switch carriers, something no other carrier is doing. A SIM card, once locked to a carrier, can not be unlocked.

Re:Non-story?

[BronsCon]

Yes, in most cases, that's what happens. However, this article is about iPads bought from Apple, which AT&T has no right to lock.

Re:Non-story?

[BronsCon]

Why spend the $10 most carriers charge for a SIM if you don't have to?

Re: Non-story?

[Noxal]

But it IS reality with every other carrier mentioned above who doesn't do this shit.

Re:Non-story?

[PopeRatzo]

Why spend the $10 most carriers charge for a SIM if you don't have to?

It's got to be an "Apple SIM" which probably means it's $599 for a small one that nobody wants and $899 for one that you can actually use.

Re: Non-story?

[the_B0fh]

It's my fucking SIM, you idiot, the carrier has no right to fuck with *MY* SIM.

Re: Non-story?

[zippthorne]

It is good business to try and retain a customer. It is terrible behavior to hold someone's property ransom to force them to listen to your pitch.

Depending on how quickly word gets out, and the reaction, the second may not be a productive way of trying to achieve the first.

Re: Non-story?

[joemck]

If it was only on ones bought through AT&T, this would be true (though not exactly fair unless they're giving you the function-limited device for less than buying an unrestricted one from Apple). But according to TFS, AT&T will lock a SIM you bring yourself, putting up a barrier to using your equipment bought from somewhere else with another carrier.

Re:Non-story?

[mysidia]

So... how are AT&T able to technically achieve this?

Did Apple screw up in some manner, that accidentally left a venue open for ATT to successfully be able to lock the SIM?

Is there a way Apple can fix this in a future revision, so the customer will be able to unlock their SIM, or ATT won't be able to lock it?

Re:Non-story?

[BronsCon]

Ha, good one. The bet ones are always based on facts, after all. Except... wait a minute... No, it's just a regular form-factor SIM card that accepts signaling from the device to select which carrier it identifies with. Which, of course, means you can use a normal carrier SIM in it, as well. How do I know this? Verizon doesn't support the Apple SIM, but you can sure pop a Verizon LTE SIM in there and it'll work.

Dumbass.

Re: Non-story?

[BronsCon]

Maybe read my post again? That's exactly what I said.

Re:Non-story?

[Darinbob]

Well, if you switch you still have to pay the extra money to quit the plan early (those phones are not cheap and are subsidized through the monthly fee). The point of the Apple SIM as explained to me by some who want it, is for when they travel to other countries when they explain is can be inconvenient to pick up a sim card and take it to a clerk to pay for when you can just give the phone to the clerk instead (or presumably if the infrastructure is ever in place, get the code online).

Though if you buy an iphone outside of AT&T, can you switch to AT&T without them locking your personally bought-and-paid-for SIM card, or do they only do this on their own subsidized phones?

Re:Non-story?

[Anonymous Coward]

I know it's difficult to read the story. It's even more difficult to read the summary. Did you even read the title? ipad != iphone.

Re: Non-story?

[Anonymous Coward]

If you choose to rent hardware and software from Apple that's your lookout. If AT&T dicks with your rented SIM that's also your lookout, and your fault for choosing the worst mobile carrier in the USA. Can't see what the fuss is about. Anybody who pays for Apple stuff usually deserves what they get.

Re: Non-story?

[Anonymous Coward]

If AT&T believes it is entitled to lock a SIM that wasn't sold by it, and the FCC lackies refuse to intercede, then it seems reasonable to ask first and sue if necessary. It wouldn't be the first time that AT&T lost an antitrust lawsuit.

Of course it would be nice if the federal government would step in but as they weren't compelled by reason or justice when banks were selling toxic derivatives in the trillions, why would they protect us little consumers from Cingular (dba AT&T)?

Re:Non-story?

[JasonGoatcher]

I don't have a tablet that's connected to cellular, but if AT&T did this to me without me realizing, I'd go to their stores and complain until they either fixed the problem or called the police on me.

It's one thing to be evil, but this is the type of thing that makes me wish the cruel and unusual punishment restriction didn't exist in US law. Fucking bastards.

Re: Non-story?

[Anonymous Coward]

Ridiculous. Apple doesn't have to manufacture SIMs, and this COULD bring a variation on the European model of wireless device sales being separated from the purchase of services to the US market. But it's obvious that AT&T recognises this and won't go down without a fight.

Freedom of choice just isn't the American corporate mindset, and fairness rarely ever has been. As for the average consumer, tmost don't know how to shop around. Not that it's easy to evaluate the performance of a wkireless network or device. It's not like the FCC requires decent performance information be developed or published.

Re: Non-story?

[thegarbz]

I'm not familiar with the concept of buying a sim. No really I'm legitimately curious not trying to be funny. I though sims were provided by carriers for their networks. I thought all this is free as part of any contract and that replacement sims are likewise free. I'm struggling with the outrage. Isn't the carrier specific sim the reason for all those phones on the market with more than one sim shot?

Re: Non-story?

[Zontar The Mindless]

I was under the impression that those phones are used mostly by salespeople and other frequent travellers so they can use the SIM/account that's local to the place they're in currently, without fumbling about for the card(s).

Re: Non-story?

[Anonymous Coward]

A sim is not YOUR equipment. It is like a key to a rented apartment - the key is property of the landlord, and for good reason.

The real story here is that Apple unilaterally decided to redefine what a SIM does, breaking every carrier's security model, and some of the carriers went along with it, but AT&T stood their ground.

Re: Non-story?

[flyneye]

AT & T have no business locking anything I purchase. I buy a car, it's not locked by the dealership, I buy a Skil-saw and I don't have to call to change blades.
No , it's not a good business practice, it's not nice and it is intrusive, invasive and rude. It would be no different than getting married to a hottie, then finding her breeding rights belong to another guy and you can't even touch her cunt unless she gets a new one.
No, just piss on AT&T and their ilk.

Re: Non-story?

[Anonymous Coward]

Complain to Apple, they are giving AT&T the ability to do this in the first place.

Re: Non-story?

[BronsCon]

Most US providers charge $5-10 for a SIM. They often waive it with the purchase of a new phone and, less commonly, with a new contract, but that doesn't mean they don't charge for them. That's beside the point, though; for T-Mobile, AT&T, or Sprint on the current-gen iPads, it's Apple SIM or bust, and you're buying that from Apple, not your carrier; the only carrier-specific SIMs that will work in the current iPads are for carriers not participating in the Apple SIM program, AFAIK. So yes, that AT&T would essentially brick the SIM for other carriers is outrageous.

Furthermore, buying SIMs is fairly common.

Re: Non-story?

[Anonymous Coward]

If you choose to rent hardware and software from Apple that's your lookout. If AT&T dicks with your rented SIM that's also your lookout, and your fault for choosing the worst mobile carrier in the USA. Can't see what the fuss is about. Anybody who pays for Apple stuff usually deserves what they get.

I agree with your last bit: anybody who pays for Apple stuff usually deserves what they get -- which is a pretty good product.

However, in this case, what they get and what they have after it touches AT&T are two different things. Sure, people should try to avoid using AT&T, but sometimes they're the only one with "coverage" in an area -- and if the only competitor is Verizon, well... Verizon doesn't support the unlocked SIM at all. AT&T agreed to play ball with Apple, and is now keeping every ball it catches.

I'll be interested to see what happens when AT&T Legal and Apple Legal clash over this.

Re: Non-story?

[Em Adespoton]

AT & T have no business locking anything I purchase. I buy a car, it's not locked by the dealership, I buy a Skil-saw and I don't have to call to change blades.
No , it's not a good business practice, it's not nice and it is intrusive, invasive and rude. It would be no different than getting married to a hottie, then finding her breeding rights belong to another guy and you can't even touch her cunt unless she gets a new one.
No, just piss on AT&T and their ilk.

If you buy a car these days, the computer is indeed locked by the dealership, although the manufacturer has the keys. Independent mechanics have been up in arms over this for years -- they have to purchase the keys needed to tune the vehicles, even though they're running on a somewhat open system.

That doesn't make either a reasonable course of action though, even with the security arguments.

Re: Non-story?

[profplump]

Unless they decide not to. Or go out of business. Or you haven't paid them enough. Or any of 100 other things. Even if it was 100% their policy to unlock on request, they locked it without my consent or any ethical technical or business purpose, which is itself a problem.

Re: Non-story?

[Anonymous Coward]

I've only ever seen mentions of phones that went up to two SIM slots. I've been wondering if anyone would make a phone with more than two SIM slots. Then you could use the extra slots for things you own, such as a PGP key on a SIM. Somehow I suspect the carriers would dislike this even more...

Re:Non-story?

[Anonymous Coward]

What carriers charge for a SIM? I've never paid for a SIM in my life. They might charge online or from the machine at the airport, but if you go to the store in person, free SIM. At least I've only had to tell with Tmobile US and Tmobile UK (EE). I told T-mobile UK that I was only going to use their service for a week, and they still gave me a free SIM.

Re:Non-story?

[BronsCon]

Most carriers charge. They usually waive it, but yes, the charge. You basically just said that, so......

Re: Non-story?

[TigerNation]

I'll have to say that AT&T has evolved into (or perhaps become stupider about getting caught) a pathological company--they have elaborately cynical lies that their tech/customer service drones foist upon their customers. Bad signal strength? "You live right next to the ocean, and our signal is the same basic frequency as the ocean, so it absorbs the signal instead of deflecting it like a solid object." Are they fucking HIGH?! Do they think that NO ONE knows anything about resonance, or the physics of sound? I can NOT wait until my contract expires. The only thing that they'll hear from me is penetrating silence--as I'll be swimming in the ocean with my Verizon phone on the beach!

Re: Non-story?

[flyneye]

Thats the difference between "buying" and "bought", the present tense would be "buy", which I do every now and then w/o dicking with a loan process.
You may not be able to buy a car outright many places, but sometimes you can make the downpayment, then pay the salesman the balance to "jump over a bucket" and he will "give" you the car. Just to be inside legality.

Re: Non-story?

[Swave An deBwoner]

I'm pretty sure that Verizon doesn't operate a GSM network so saying that they won't support the unlocked SIM seems like a red herring. Verizon is, so far as I know, CDMA all the way.

Re: Non-story?

[Swave An deBwoner]

And now I read just a little further down and learned from BronsCon that Verizon offers a SIM-based LTE network.

Easy solution

[Anonymous Coward]

Easy solution:

Don't use AT&T. Ever.

Re:Easy solution

[roc97007]

Easy solution:

Don't use AT&T. Ever.

Or Verizon.

Re:Easy solution

[Earthquake Retrofit]

AT&T....nope

Verizon....Nope

CenturyLink(formerly Qwest)....nope

Google....nope

shit

I'm Bennett Haselton

[Anonymous Coward]

And I'm looking to replace my LG Optimus. You can read about it here

Re: I'm Bennett Haselton

[Anonymous Coward]

Do you think Etsy has any WWBHD (what would Bennett Haselton do) bracelets? I'd love 50 of them.

Yikes

[Anonymous Coward]

I was thinking about buying an AT&T model because Verizon is not participating. TMo here I come.

That makes my decision easier.

[BLToday]

I was going to an LTE iPad and go as needed on the cellular plan, now which carrier to not select.

Re:That makes my decision easier.

[Anonymous Coward]

I was going to an LTE iPad and go as needed on the cellular plan, now which carrier to not select.

I was going to write that exact same thing!
Wait....what?

Go T-Mo

[SuperKendall]

T-Mobile that is.

I had Verizon, before that AT&T. So far I've been happier with T-Mobile than any of them...

T-Mobile I think gives you a free 200mb/month no matter what, so if you use cell network lightly that can be fantastic.

If you do pay for a plan, T-Mobile has free international data. It's not LTE unless you pay more but 3G is fine for most needs.

It's only been a month so I may be in the honeymoon phase but the very fact there is a honeymoon phase instead of a gnawing fear in the pit of my stomach that I've attached myself to a monster speaks volumes about T-Mobile I think.

Re: Go T-Mo

[Anonymous Coward]

T-mobile only gives the free data on tablet if you are already a subscriber. For exams If you have your phones on Sprint you will not be able to buy an iPad from T-Mobile and get the free data. If you already have a plan with them then you can add the iPad with your 200mb free data. Good plan for existing subscribers. Means nothing to the rest.

Re:Go T-Mo

[stephanruby]

T-Mobile I think gives you a free 200mb/month no matter what, so if you use cell network lightly that can be fantastic.

Do not trust T-Mobile on that promise. I bought two sim cards from T-mobile with the same promise, 200 mb/month "for life" and each sim card doesn't even need to be activated. I read the fine prints very carefully. That was true for about six months, then the sim cards stopped working.

I think T-Mobile just regretted having offered that deal. I would have complained, but I'm just too lazy to do so because I did get some service and I'm just out $40.

Overall, I still think T-Mobile is the least dishonest mobile carrier of the nationwide carriers. The second one is Sprint. Third is AT&T. And fourth is Verizon (even thought Verizon has the very best and widest coverage I've experienced in all the areas I frequent). I'm a mobile phone software developer, so I do get to experience many cell phone networks.

Re: Go T-Mo

[bigdaddybey]

It is written on their website that you must have an existing tmobile plan of some sort to qualify for the 200mb of free data.

Re: Go T-Mo

[tepples]

Does T-Mobile offer any low-voice-usage plans comparable to what I currently get for $7 per month from a Sprint subsidiary?

Re:Go T-Mo

[Anonymous Coward]

Overall, I still think T-Mobile is the least dishonest mobile carrier of the nationwide carriers. The second one is Sprint. Third is AT&T. And fourth is Verizon (even thought Verizon has the very best and widest coverage I've experienced in all the areas I frequent). I'm a mobile phone software developer, so I do get to experience many cell phone networks.

What, exactly, does Verizon do that is so dishonest and earns them so much hate? They ask a price to provide a service, I deem that price fair and pay it, then they provide me with the service at the agreed upon rate. I'm not so sure why this seems to be a problem for most people. If you don't need Verizon-level coverage, save a few bucks and use a PCS carrier. Need something in-between? Use AT&T. Competition is wonderful, and moving towards a model of one SIM card can do nothing but reduce, not increase, said competition.

Re:Go T-Mo

[Anonymous Coward]

I remember one prominent instance where Verizon insisted that $0.01 == 0.01 cents and overcharged a customer. I'm on a slow connection and too lazy to look it up.

Re:Go T-Mo

[NormalVisual]

Here's the link I think you're referring to: Verizon doesn't know dollars from cents

Randall Munroe (of XKCD fame) wrote a legendary check to Verizon afterwards in response to this incident. "What now, bitches?"

Re: Go T-Mo

[Anonymous Coward]

It is written on their website that you must have an existing tmobile plan of some sort to qualify for the 200mb of free data.

No, it isn't : http://newsroom.t-mobile.com/news/t-mobile-reiterates-free-data-for-life-details.htm

Q. If I buy a tablet device outright, do I need a service payment relationship with T-Mobile?
A. No. Bring it in to us or buy it in full from us and we'll get you on the network where you'll get 200MB of free data (plus SIM card purchase), every month, for as long as you own your device.

T-Mo plays some other sleazy Carrier-grade games to show their hate for pay-go SIMs, but if you've got a fully paid tablet then you can get 200 MB of data each month for just the one-time cost of a pay-go SIM.

Re: Go T-Mo

[Anonymous Coward]

Wrong. You do not need to be an existing t-mobile customer to get the 200mb free plan. I am not and I have two iPads on the plan. You may need to be a customer if you finance the iPads through tmobile, but not to get the free plan.

Re:Go T-Mo

[Miamicanes]

What, exactly, does Verizon do that is so dishonest and earns them so much hate?

They lock down their phones, and in the past they've actively disabled features supported by their phones' hardware to force you to use their premium services (Bluetooth modes, Wifi, and GPS have all been casualties of Verizon's lockdown fetish in the past). Compounding matters, there are lots of semi-rural places where Verizon is the only carrier with viable service (or at least, viable service INDOORS). Verizon was also the only carrier who forced bootloader-locking up until AT&T joined the party last year.

That's why T-Mobile is the carrier everyone desperately wants to love, even in areas where their service is poor. They're the only carrier who DOESN'T lock down their phones & try to restrict what you can do with them.

Re: Go T-Mo

[Anonymous Coward]

No. The plan is available to anyone, whether you are an existing customer or not. I know it is hard to believe, but this evil corporation is indeed giving away 200mb/month free. No stings attached. You do not have to provide a credit card number, nor even a real name/address (need a valid e-mail). You do need to get the tmobile SIM card though. However they are often on sale on the tmobile site for $1 each, sometimes for 1 Penny each, and less often for free (all the sales usually include free shipping).

I've got two iPads on the free plans, one is an ATT ipad3, the other is a verizon branded iPad Air (same as all iPad Air models, but comes with a verizon sim pre-installed).

Re:Go T-Mo

[freeze128]

Really? I have had several Verizon phones and bluetooth, wifi, and GPS have worked fine on them. Perhaps you have just been using the built-in crapware that Verizon ships with their phones. Also, even though the phones ship with a locked bootloader, I have had no trouble unlocking the bootloader in order to install a custom ROM like cyanogenmod, or rooting the existing rom, or both.

One shady thing that Verizon has done is to order phones from the manufacturer without an FM radio reciever, or with it disabled in hardware, so you can't just use it to listen to FM music being broadcast over the air. Instead, you have to use some streaming music service, which may be limited by your data plan.

Re:Go T-Mo

[jimbo]

You seem to believe that people who know that they can unlock/reflash to cyanogenmod or ever figure out how to get it done are the vast majority of the customer base.
Not to mention that the first I heard of crippled phones goes way back, before Android even existed as a dodgy business plan for the company Google would later buy. It wasn't always as easy to find an alternative image to install as today.

Re:Go T-Mo

[Anonymous Coward]

Perhaps you have just been using the built-in crapware that Verizon ships with their phones. Also, even though the phones ship with a locked bootloader, I have had no trouble unlocking the bootloader in order to install a custom ROM like cyanogenmod, or rooting the existing rom, or both.

This is not always a practical option; it can void your manufacturer's warranty so if something goes wrong with your $600 phone within the warranty period then you're screwed, or in some cases the carrier may even refuse to provide support or penalize you if they suspect your phone is rooted or otherwise modified in some way.

I had rooted my old phone and installed Cyanogenmod but when the physical buttons on it had stopped working properly T-Mobile fortunately didn't complain when I made an extended warranty claim to get it replaced but none the less I took a risk and especially wouldn't trust Verizon in that scenario. I seriously doubt Samsung would have been that forgiving had the buttons stopped working within the manufacturer's warranty period.

Re:Go T-Mo

[Anonymous Coward]

First link, that sure proves your point. I always trust some random dork on blogspot.

Legendary? Hyperbole much?

Holy fuck you're a fuckwit.

Re: Go T-Mo

[Zontar The Mindless]

...if you finance the iPads through tmobile...

It's common and reasonable to finance a home or maybe even a car. But a fucking iPad...?

Re: Go T-Mo

[Anonymous Coward]

Legendary: remarkable enough to be famous.

Just say nice things until you catch up.

Re:Go T-Mo

[drinkypoo]

erhaps you have just been using the built-in crapware that Verizon ships with their phones. Also, even though the phones ship with a locked bootloader, I have had no trouble unlocking the bootloader in order to install a custom ROM like cyanogenmod, or rooting the existing rom, or both.

This is not always a practical option; it can void your manufacturer's warranty so if something goes wrong with your $600 phone within the warranty period then you're screwed,

If someone told me I voided my warranty for installing CM, I really would see them in court. They're going to have to show that CM is incompatible, and in the process, they'll basically have to declare that their phone is not an android phone, which will make them look like cunts in the press.

Re:Go T-Mo

[Anonymous Coward]

Sure, Verizon Wireless used to lock down features but eventually they had to give up when Apple and Android smartphone popularity beat them into submission.

Also, as part of their deal with the US government for the 700 MHz spectrum auction, Verizon Wireless no longer locks their LTE phones in any way. In fact, they had the truest "world phones" with the iPhone 5 and 5S because they could access both CDMA-type and GSM-type networks. Just pop in a local SIM anywhere in the world (Now the 6 and 6+ have the CDMA radio enabled on models for non-CDMA carriers).

The things they do that are dishonest and earn them hate are their billing practices. Not the network, which is unimpeachable.

Re:Go T-Mo

[NormalVisual]

Aww, afraid to post as anything other than AC?

Re: Go T-Mo

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, people do that. Not everyone can afford a $600 iPad all at once. They finance it at 0% interest, so why take that deal? The downside is you pay full retail price. You could probably find somewhere to get one below retail someway. Most people however, are just going to pay full retail anyways, so why not finance it at 0%?

Re:Go T-Mo

[Miamicanes]

No need for a lawsuit. Just file a complaint with the FTC under the Magnuson Moss Warranty Act, then sit back with a bowl of popcorn and watch the manufacturer beg for mercy. Or ask to speak to the front-line employee's supervisor, and just say the magic phrase that pays: "If you don't fix it, I'm going to file a Magnuson Moss complaint with the FTC". They'll blanche, take the phone, charge the usual deductible if you let them, JTAG-reflash it back to stock, and proceed as normal.

The catch with Magnuson Moss is that the manufacturer is under no obligation to return a rooted or reflashed phone to you STILL rooted or reflashed. They're 100% unambiguously entitled to JTAG-reflash it to stock prior to returning it, even if the newer version to which they reflashed it doesn't have a working root exploit. So, 9 months from now, you COULD conceivably find yourself owning a rooted & reflashed phone with a flaky USB port that's eligible for warranty repair, but will be returned to you reflashed with unrootable Android L and a locked-down bootloader. You'd be stuck between two equally-shitty rocks and hard places... flaky USB with root, permissive SElinux, and ext2 microSD hacked back into the ROM... or working USB, but no root and Google-crippled microSD that only supports FAT32, and restricts what apps can do with it regardless.

The Apple SIM is a terrible idea

[Anonymous Coward]

Terrible for the consumer, that is. It is the first step to the built-in, non-exchangeable SIM (or software SIM, like Apple wants to paint it). If you want to beg Apple or the network operators every time you want to use your plan with a different device or your device with a different plan, go ahead and support the Apple SIM. Otherwise don't activate the Apple SIM even once and get an independent SIM instead. Better yet, avoid devices which are sold with an Apple SIM. Now is the time to vote with your wallet. Oh who am I kidding...

Re:The Apple SIM is a terrible idea

[Anonymous Coward]

Holy shit you're completely retarded.

Re:The Apple SIM is a terrible idea

[Elbart]

No. The "Apple SIM" with the ultimate goal of getting rid of the exchangeable SIM is just a way to bring the CDMA-style restrictions of a carrier-side device-whitelist into the world of GSM/UMTS/LTE-devices.

Re:The Apple SIM is a terrible idea

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple uses your hatred of the network operators against you. In a world with network operators that people like, nobody would accept Apple's attempt to wedge itself between the customers and the service providers with a concept that is so ripe for exploiting this middle-man position. But in our world, where people have nothing but disdain for network operators, you can sell people anything that network operators might be opposed to, and hardly anybody will check if the consumer won't be worse off for it.

Re:The Apple SIM is a terrible idea

[Anonymous Coward]

I was thinking these Apple SIMs were a silly idea, since the carrier SIMs were so easy to get. Now that you suggest this though, ick! That sounds like a very plausible explanation for what the carriers are thinking.

Get an AT&T sim card first

[Anonymous Coward]

So instead of AT&T screwing up the Apple provided sim card, users who want to try AT&T should request an AT&T sim card directly from AT&T and use that instead. Problem solved.

Legality

[GrahamJ]

Is this even legal? It's not their SIM, it's yours. Surely they can't legally lock you out of your own hardware.

Re:Legality

[Anonymous Coward]

If they put it in the fine print, it is legal until a judge declares it not legal. Welcome to the land of the free, the home of the brave (lawyers).

Re: Legality

[bigdaddybey]

At no point is your hardware locked. If you're SIM is locked to a carrier your iPad remains functional whether you have an active subscription or not. The locking of a Sim card merely means that the data to a cell network is locked to that carrier. The hardware itself along with the use of Wi-Fi remains open and available.

Re:Legality

[R.Mo_Robert]

If they put it in the fine print, it is legal until a judge declares it not legal.

It's not even in the fine print (well, I'm sure it probably still is, but...). When you try to activate AT&T on the device, you'll get a modal dialog that pops up, warns you about this exact situation, and asks if you would like to continue.

Re: Legality

[khellendros1984]

The whole point of the story is that the Apple SIM gets locked by AT&T to their network. The SIM is part of the hardware that you purchased with the iPad. Therefore, the hardware that belongs to you (the SIM) gets locked. Implying that it doesn't matter because the rest of the device remains free to use elsewhere is missing the point.

If AT&T wants to lock a SIM to their service, then they should provide the customer a SIM, rather than disabling functionality in the SIM that the customer already has. Putting it in the contract gives them a right to do it, but it doesn't make it a less-scummy business practice.

Re: Legality

[TubeSteak]

Putting it in the contract gives them a right to do it,

Not necessarily.
Just because there's a clause in the contract doesn't mean it is legal and/or conscionable.

I'll say that it's nakedly anti-consumer and I hope a State's Attorney General or three will look into it and pressure AT&T to back off.

Re: Legality

[GrahamJ]

By hardware I meant the SIM itself.

SIM, CSIM, USIM

[tepples]

I thought Verizon and Sprint used CDMA which required something other than a SIM.

According to Wikipedia, CDMA2000 can use a CSIM (CDMA2000 subscriber identity module). But unlike GSM and its successors (UMTS, HSPA, and LTE), CDMA2000 makes use of a CSIM optional, and CDMA2000 with CSIM is more common in Asia than in North America, where Verizon and Sprint have traditionally programmed the subscriber identity directly into the handset. But a single UICC card can act as a removable user identity module for all three cellular flavors: SIM for GSM, CSIM for CDMA2000, and USIM for UMTS, HSPA, and LTE.

Sign it away in TOS

[tepples]

They can if you sign ownership-equivalent rights to your SIM over to them when you begin service.

competing with verizon

[Anonymous Coward]

AT&T is just competing with Verizon to be a bigger asshole.

Simple Solution

[koan]

Break up ATT and Verizon.

Unlock a Apple SIM

[Anonymous Coward]

1. Buy iPad Air 2 with Apple SIM.
2. Take it to AT&T, which then immediately locks the said SIM.
3. If you want to switch, then go buy another Apple SIM from Apple.

If AT&T wants to lock a SIM I purchased elsewhere, should AT&T pay me for the replacement SIM?

I know... dream on.

Ask Apple?

[Anonymous Coward]

Has anyone asked Apple what they think of this? Maybe this isn't in their contract with Apple.

Re:Ask Apple?

[Anonymous Coward]

Who cares, just ask Bennett fucking Haselton apparently.

Re:Go T-Mo - who is not an Uncarrier

[Anonymous Coward]

T-Mobile I think gives you a free 200mb/month no matter what, so if you use cell network lightly that can be fantastic.

If you do pay for a plan, T-Mobile has free international data.

For all their flaunting of the term "Uncarrier", T-Mobile US is very much still in a carrier mindset.

Do you want to be a pay-go, no-contract customer? Well then you can't use the data you prepaid for on any cell tower not owned by T-Mo, nor can you pay them extra for domestic roaming-data packages ... those are privileges and reserved only for customers who've signed a contract.

WTF? I can't pay T-Mo extra money for the ability to use data in a town where they have no towers just because I haven't legally obligated myself to pay them a regular fee every month for a year or more?!? That's straight up Big Carrier BS right there.

Irony?

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple users who are used to lock-in now want to complain about lock-in?

Sounds like grounds for a class action anyhow.

[Wild_dog!]

If a company is disabling the functionality of a piece of hardware you have then they minimally need to re-enable the functionality.
Some new lawyer could cut their chops on this case I'm sure.
Seems foolhardy for AT&T to expose themselves this way.

Re:Go T-Mo - who is not an Uncarrier

[wierd_w]

that's bull.

I use T-Mo on a "bring your own device", no contract monthly billing plan.

i get 2gb of data with unlimited calls and texts for 100/mo. I can get 1gb for 50/mo if i so choose as well. You can cut that down to 200mb and pay some insanely small ammount (I think it was 10/mo?) and i have roamed quite heavily from my initial service area, all the way into other states, and have had no trouble using data on other carrier's towers.

granted, it's not alsways 4G LTE, and is often edge or something similarly nasty, but it's still data service, and I dont have a contract.

stop spreading the FUD.

What physically happens when they lock the SIM?

[John.Banister]

What does AT&T do when they remotely lock the SIM that prevents me from being able to take that SIM to someone else and say "Here, use this," without getting "I'm sorry, we can't" as a reply?

Who cares???

[brunes69]

Does anyone actually care about this? So you buy an iPad from AT&T and if you want to use it with T-Mobile, you need to pop in a T-Mobile SIM. Who cares? It's not like it costs money for a SIM when you sign up with a carrier, they will just give it to you. And how is this any different than an unlocked phone?

Not surprising.

[Anonymous Coward]

Forget users can kick AT&T today and thereafter.

AT&T reminds me of Bank of America . . . I wonder how they still have any customers.

Straight from the horses mouth, *hole

[Anonymous Coward]

Here's the facts, straight from the horse's mouth http://support.t-mobile.com/docs/DOC-7261

On demand data passes (aka domestic data roaming) are only "Available for plans with a monthly allotment of high-speed data."

While you're becoming educated, go learn the difference between "prepaid" plans (what you described) and "pay-go" plans (the only true no-commitment plans). Among other differences, pay-go plans never involve giving the provider authorization for recurrent monthly billing.

One of the revolutionary things Apple did when they introduced the iPad was require all partner providers to finally offer at least a data-only pay-go plan.

Not dishonest, just greedy

[SuperKendall]

What, exactly, does Verizon do that is so dishonest and earns them so much hate?

I never said they were dishonest, just that I didn't like them. Remember, this is after I have been a customer for two years so I have a lot of experience...

The main reason is just that they charge a lot of fees. Fees for the ability to block a number, fees for this, fees for that - but the worst is truly outrageous data fees for international use, $20 for 200MB of data. And the REALLY bad part of that is, it's per country - if you go to Europe or on a cruise you may well be hopping between several countries, and it's super easy to rack up charges. My phone bill was fluctuating between $50-$100 more per pay period from the base.

T-Mobile so far, has a cheaper overall plan (expected since I brought in a device) but is also a more stable bill - month to month I can be far more sure of what I will be paying with T-Mobile.