Slashdot Mirror


Polyphonic Overtone Singing Explained Visually With Spectrograms

New submitter Tucano writes The overtone singer Anna-Maria Hefele can sing two notes at the same time. In her latest video, spectrograms and frequency filters are used to explain how she can produce two melody lines at the same time, and how she uses her mouth to filter the frequencies of her voice. When the voice produces a sound, many harmonics (or overtones) sound at the same time, and we normally hear this as a single tone. In overtone singing, the mouth filters out all harmonics but one, and the one that remains is amplified to become louder. This is then perceived as a separate tone, next to the fundamental. In her video, Anna-Maria shows techniques that become increasingly advanced. She shows the overtone scale (steady fundamental, moving overtone), the undertone scale (steady overtone, moving fundamental), parallel movement and opposing movement of overtone and fundamental, and even complex compositions with two separate melody lines.

51 comments

  1. So can anyone with Pro Tools... BFD. by rodrigoandrade · · Score: 0, Redundant

    With the advent of technology, anyone can sing or play any instrument like a pro.

    Outside of a live performance, does it really matter?

    1. Re:So can anyone with Pro Tools... BFD. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      More like they can sing or use any instrument like a tool. A tool that brings nothing to the table.

    2. Re:So can anyone with Pro Tools... BFD. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      With the advent of technology, anyone can code C++ like a pro.

      Outside of a live performance, does it really matter?

    3. Re:So can anyone with Pro Tools... BFD. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, it does really matter. As aptly demonstrated by Rebecca Black, there is no cure for lack of talent.

    4. Re:So can anyone with Pro Tools... BFD. by Chrisq · · Score: 2

      With the advent of technology, anyone can sing or play any instrument like a pro. Outside of a live performance, does it really matter?

      It depends on what you mean by "play". I can "play" an MP3, and there is a fairly small step between that and programming a sequence into a synthesiser. Another step forward and I could sing with autotune or play an instrument that avoids discords. Then I could sing or play a conventional instrument. Having "instant music" doesn't make this pointless

    5. Re:So can anyone with Pro Tools... BFD. by yndrd1984 · · Score: 2

      With the advent of technology, anyone can sing or play any instrument like a pro.

      In the same way that automatic garbage collection lets anyone program like a pro, yes.

    6. Re:So can anyone with Pro Tools... BFD. by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      Or automatic register allocation. Named variables are for pussies anyway, right? ;-)

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    7. Re:So can anyone with Pro Tools... BFD. by Russ1642 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I think if you sat down with one of these software packages for a few minutes you'd quickly realize that having a top notch performance is the key to a quality end-product. Think of it this way. If you're photographing a model would you rather spend a half-hour having makeup applied (maybe it takes longer, I don't know) or would you rather spend many hours airbrushing and PSing the shit out of the final image before you can even start working on stylizing it for print and doing the 'normal' PSing? Same goes for music. You can create vocals and instrumental music out of thin air with software, but it takes a TON of work to get them to not sound like crap, let alone good.

    8. Re:So can anyone with Pro Tools... BFD. by digsbo · · Score: 1

      Music is more than just notes. A lifetime dedicated to mastering control and technique brings with it a lot of taste, subtlety, and nuance. You may not care about that nuance, but that actually disqualifies you from having an informed opinion on fine arts.

    9. Re:So can anyone with Pro Tools... BFD. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It matters once you understand that great performances are not about being perfectly in tune, and in time.
      A good musician can already play in tune and in time. A great musician explores the further expression and emotion that comes from intentionally departing from mechanical perfection.

    10. Re:So can anyone with Pro Tools... BFD. by operagost · · Score: 1

      With the advent of technology, anyone can sing or play any instrument like a pro.

      Sure, if all that mattered in music was plucking, blowing, or bowing. There's this small matter of the theory of music. You know, harmony, style, tonality... little things like that.

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    11. Re:So can anyone with Pro Tools... BFD. by Charliemopps · · Score: 2

      Why did people paint after the advent of cameras? The camera produces a far superior image!

    12. Re:So can anyone with Pro Tools... BFD. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      With the advent of technology, anyone can code C++ like a pro.

      Indeed. I'm old enough and ugly enough now to laugh instead of crying when I look at professional C++.

      The C++ Establishment is like the large churches and political parties.

    13. Re:So can anyone with Pro Tools... BFD. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  2. "Do you feel like I do?" by Stavr0 · · Score: 1

    Yeah, but can she make a Les Paul talk like Peter Frampton?

  3. How do you do it? by Theovon · · Score: 4, Interesting

    That was very interesting, but I was hoping she'd also include some information about how she manipulates the resonance chamber physically to do the filtering.

    1. Re:How do you do it? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      There are several tutorials on youtube on how to do overtone (also called throat) singing. She doesn't cover it, because probably there's enough of it already.

    2. Re:How do you do it? by Barny · · Score: 3, Funny

      Well, you learn how to overtone sing and we can find out :D

      --
      ...
      /me sighs
    3. Re:How do you do it? by murkwood7 · · Score: 2

      There are several tutorials on youtube on how to do overtone (also called throat) singing. She doesn't cover it, because probably there's enough of it already.

      "Throat singing" involves operating the vocal cords while inhaling. This lady, Anna-Maria Hefele, at least, is NOT doing that.

      --
      - X/Y -
    4. Re:How do you do it? by murkwood7 · · Score: 1

      I should say that Anna-Maria Hefele does not appear to be inhaling when making sounds.

      --
      - X/Y -
    5. Re:How do you do it? by ripvlan · · Score: 3, Informative

      This is the second video from her that I've seen. I really liked this one because she explained what she was doing. The first was just her singing and I didn't "get it."

      Look in the suggested links on YouTube - you'll see one from "Yuichi Tuba" who goes into the basics. He talks about where to put your tongue, how to shape it, and how to practice. https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

      Something fun to go home and try. Better than teaching the kid how to make farting noises under his arm.

    6. Re:How do you do it? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Watch her nose carefully as she shifts tones, see the nostrils flaring. This is how she can have two separate resonate pathways for the sound, one is through the nose.

    7. Re: How do you do it? by ozydingo · · Score: 1

      By my understanding, it's basically the same way you make different vowel sounds. Vowels like ah or oh or ee are just creating resonances at different places in the spectrum. And, like whistling (which uses some of the same mechanisms for creating a resonance), you need to practice to really get the mouth/throat shape down to achieve a really sharp resonance. My understanding of throat singing is the same, so I'd imagine those tutorials would cover it, though I never really looked too deeply into that so it's possible that uses a different mechanism, though I can't imagine what.

    8. Re: How do you do it? by ozydingo · · Score: 1

      Where do you get that idea from, other than guessing because you noticed her nostrils? With or without the nasal passage your throat and mouth give multiple audible resonances to your voice. And she is largely only using one. One pitch precept comes from the actual vibration frequencies of her vocal folds, the other from a pronounced resonance from the shape of her mouth & throat. Where do you get the idea that a separate pathway via the nasal passage is required?

    9. Re:How do you do it? by Theovon · · Score: 1

      Excellent link. Not only did I learn to do overtone singing, but I also have another person I can send prayer requests. :)

    10. Re:How do you do it? by ripvlan · · Score: 1

      Yes - well... if you prayed to learn how to perform this kind of singing...then consider your prayer answered !!

      Actually - I started looking at his whole channel and found his random "man on the streets" of Japan to be quite entertaining. I haven't been back to Japan for over 10 years so I found it interesting and fun to watch. I remember buying hot sake in a can - press a button and it would begin heating. They have such cool soda machines over there. YouTube surfing at its best.

      Back to work.

  4. Reminds me of Tuvan throat singing by Muad'Dave · · Score: 3, Informative

    If you're not familiar with Tuvan throat singing, check out the documentary Genghis Blues that follows blind blues musician Paul Pena on his trip to Tuva to compete in their throat singing competition.

    From his bio:

    Paul first heard a fragment of harmonic singing on a shortwave Radio Moscow broadcast on December 29, 1984 and he was so struck by it, he spent almost eight years trying to track down its source. In 1991 he was finally able to locate a recording of Tuvan music and taught himself the vocal techniques known as 'Khoomei, Sygyt, and Kargyraa'. In addition, he learned a good bit of the Tuvan language using English-Russian and Russian-Tuvan dictionaries and an obsolete 'Opticon' scanning device which translates text into sensations. In 1993, Paul attended a concert sponsored by the Friends of Tuva organization and met Kongar-ol Ondar after the performance. Paul gave Kongar-ol an impromptu demonstration--and astonished him with his talent and mastery of traditional Tuvan singing. The two men formed a strong friendship along with their musical collaboration.

    In 1995, Kongar-ol invited Paul to sing at the second international Khoomei Symposium and contest, held in Tuva's capital city, Kyzyl. Ralph Leighton and the "Friends of Tuva" sponsored his trip.

    --
    Tiller's Rule: Never use a word in written form that you've only heard and never read. You will end up looking foolish.
    1. Re:Reminds me of Tuvan throat singing by Ol+Biscuitbarrel · · Score: 3, Informative

      Cowboy singer Arthur Miles cut a record in the 1930s using overtone singing. It seems to be something people inevitably develop from just messing around with the possibilities of the human voice.

    2. Re:Reminds me of Tuvan throat singing by almitydave · · Score: 1

      I was fortunate enough to hear Kongar-ol Ondar and some other Tuvan singers perform live about a decade ago. It was a special experience. I heard about Tuvan throat singing from my parents, who were huge Richard Feynman fans and learned about it from him.

      --
      my, your, his/her/its, our, your, their
      I'm, you're, he's/she's/it's, we're, you're, they're
  5. Just one's mouth can make some powerful music by CRCulver · · Score: 3, Informative

    A few years ago I became interested in Kyrgyz folk music through the Smithsonian Folkways disc Tengir-Too . Like all Central Asian nomadic peoples, the Kyrgyz have cultivated the jew's harp, or kobuz. This instrument has only one vibrating element, and though it can produce only a single tone, the performer can create a variety of sounds through changing the contours of his mouth and lips. It's a humble instrument but so endless. During a trip to Kyrgyz, I bought a kobuz of my own, and though I'll probably never master it enough produce the virtuosic songs of the musicians on that disc, I'll certainly never get bored.

    1. Re:Just one's mouth can make some powerful music by Solandri · · Score: 3, Informative

      the Kyrgyz have cultivated the jew's harp, or kobuz. This instrument has only one vibrating element, and though it can produce only a single tone, the performer can create a variety of sounds through changing the contours of his mouth and lips. It's a humble instrument but so endless.

      These instruments and overtone singing take advantage of something most people know nothing about - how our perception of sound works. When you hear, say, a violin, you aren't hearing a "violin sound". You're hearing a combination of sinusoidal waves - a fundamental combined with multiple overtones. Those of you well-versed in math may recognize this as a Fourier series. Our ears are designed to perform a Fourier transform on incoming sounds, and separate out the individual frequencies. Individually these sinusoids are no different from the sinusoids generated by any other instrument (or any sound source for that matter). The stimulation a violin gives your ear at 440 Hz is exactly the same as what a horn gives, a voice gives, or even a jet engine gives at that one frequency - a sinusoid.

      It's the ratio of the magnitudes of different frequencies (fundamental + overtones) which make a violin sound like a violin. A horn has a different ratio of magnitudes at the different overtones. Same with a voice (each individual voice - that's how you recognize someone's voice). Same with a jet engine. The raw data our brain gets from the ear is just a bunch of separate frequencies and and their magnitudes. It then compares the ratios of potential fundamentals + overtones and says, "oh, that's a violin". It always amazed me that you listen to an orchestra and pick out the individual instruments - all their frequencies and magnitudes are overlapping into a mishmash of sound. When I later learned about spread spectrum multiplexing, that's when I understood your brain is doing the equivalent of orthgonal frequency division multiplexing (which is the technology used for LTE). Even though the frequencies generated by the instruments in an orchestra overlap into a mishmash of sound, the ratios of their overtones are orthogonal enough that if you listen carefully you can pick out the individual instruments. Exactly how your cell phone picks up the signal intended for it from the mishmash of signals the tower puts out for all phones.

      In many ways, a Jew's harp and overtone singing are akin to analog sound synthesis. If you thought the high pitch she was singing sounded vaguely flute- or recorder-like, it's because those instruments have very close to a pure sinusoidal waveform (fundamental, very little overtones). The individual overtone she is amplifying is sinusoidal in waveform, so your brain interprets it as flute- or recorder-like. It's very similar to how the early synthesizers worked (before computer memory became cheap enough to sample everything). The name comes from frequency modulation synthesis - you modulate the magnitudes of the different frequencies (overtones) to alter what instrument the sound sounds like. Match the pattern of violin overtones and it sounds like a violin. Match the pattern of horn overtones and it sounds like a horn. The overtone singer has only mastered modulating the fundamental and one overtone, which limits her synthesis capabilities. But if she's capable of modulating a second or third overtone, she could start making her voice sound like different instruments. Just like an old analog FM synthesizer.

    2. Re:Just one's mouth can make some powerful music by ClickOnThis · · Score: 2

      When I later learned about spread spectrum multiplexing, that's when I understood your brain is doing the equivalent of orthgonal frequency division multiplexing (which is the technology used for LTE).

      I think that's taking it a bit too far. OFDM allows your cell phone to filter out all but one channel, so that all you hear is that channel. Whereas, when I listen to Haydn's Trumpet Concerto, I can't help but hear the orchestra too, even though I can recognize the individual instruments.

      The name comes from frequency modulation synthesis - you modulate the magnitudes of the different frequencies (overtones) to alter what instrument the sound sounds like.

      Actually, that sounds like additive synthesis. FM synthesis entails the frequency-modulation of a single note with a rich upper-harmonic content (e.g., a sawtooth wave.)

      --
      If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
    3. Re: Just one's mouth can make some powerful music by ozydingo · · Score: 1

      I'll just add that even for a single sustained note, it's not just the ratio of energy of steady-state sinusoidal components that combine to our perception of a violin vs horn, for example, but it also heavily depends on the temporal evolution of that energy. If the steady state were all that mattered, just about any eq on top of a sound would really screw with our ability to recognize it. Put a steep eq on any instrument, then listen to just a few notes. You can still easily recognize it even though you've drastically altered the ratio of energy different frequencies. Hell, play a note louder and your ears will attenuate their physical response to the louder overtones, dulling the energy ratios between different frequencies. It's a fascinating machine. A jet engine does not have clean overtones, which means the amplitude in any given filter in our ear fluctuates wildly. Though it's still debated how much the temporal cues vs the place (spectral) cues really weigh into these precepts.

  6. Not so bad by BlackPignouf · · Score: 0

    Tits, mathematics, physics theory, measurements and vizualisation aren't bad, but come on, give us some real "news for nerds"!
    I don't know, maybe some post by Bennett Haselton for example.

  7. Pretty Lady Complex by Scottingham · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This has been around for a long time (think 1000s of years). I suspect this particular video became popular due to her attractiveness and plunging neckline. That's not to say she isn't amazingly talented though. She most certainly is!

    1. Re:Pretty Lady Complex by ClickOnThis · · Score: 1

      I'll second the amazingly talented part. (The pretty part is obvious.)

      Hearing her sing reminded me of the first time I heard of overtone singing. It was in Stimmung, a piece by German avant-garde composer Karlheinz Stockhausen for 6 vocalists.

      You're right that overtone singing has been around for a long time.

      --
      If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
    2. Re:Pretty Lady Complex by Bite+The+Pillow · · Score: 1

      On the other hand - I have heard a lot of throat singing, and I generally don't like it. On the rare instances that I have heard overtone singing, I have not had a computer and spectral analysis software handy.

      This puts it all in one place.

      I suspect the moderators who considered you insightful did not have the experience to differentiate a genuinely novel presentation of a mostly novel phenomenon.

      If everyone here has been studying overtone singing, not throat singing, with a spectrum analyser, for 1000s of years, then burn my account to the ground with down-moderation for being so ignorant.

      If, on the other hand, very few have heard of throat singing, and fewer yet can distinguish that with overtone singing, and fewer yet have seen it described along with a spectrogram, then this is news for nerds, and you and your moderators should be ashamed of yourself.

    3. Re:Pretty Lady Complex by Scottingham · · Score: 1

      Totally and truely my good sir. My tone was not of the perennial 'why is this on /.' I had seen the video with that lady about a month ago elsewhere. I suppose during it's initial viral wave. The addition of the spectral analysis to the video was awesome!

  8. Sounds terrible by Russ1642 · · Score: 0

    It's basically a bad party trick. It sounds awful.

    1. Re:Sounds terrible by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Juggling is a bad party trick. It looks awful. I wish they'd just stop throwing balls around in the air. Don't they know how dumb they look?

      Stupid talented people....superior to me, gaining attention and notoriety on the Internet. Attention that I deserve because I'm special too! In fact, I'm the best critic there is!! Why won't anyone acknowledge my superior ability to cut others down?

      --N00b

  9. Demetrio Stratos, a 3phonic voice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Demetrio Stratos, an Italian/Greek singer already made this, in 70s

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9p7iMTzCf0

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZmaIdiS2uc

  10. I can do it! by Charliemopps · · Score: 3, Informative

    I've been doing this since I was about 10yrs old. Clearly this woman is far far superior at it than I've ever been. At best, I can hold the fundamental and move the overtone around in a slide sort of way. The way she's doing stepping is amazing. When I started doing this, it was more of a magic trick to me. I'd say "Listen! I can have 2 voices at once!" I had no idea what I was really doing.

    For those wondering how to do it. Imagine humming with your mouth open. You have to close off your mouth in the same way you do when you drink through a straw and then hum like that. The fundamental feels very nasally to the singer. It makes your sinuses vibrate.

    To get the overtone, I put the tip of my tong, right behind my front teeth on the roof of my mouth like when I make an "L" sound. Then change the shape of your tong like when you say "La" or "Lu" or "Lo" but never remove your tong from the roof of your mouth. The shape of your tong for each of those phonics gives you different tones. That's of course, how I do it. And I'm totally untrained so take it with a grain of salt.

    1. Re:I can do it! by Matheus · · Score: 1

      Ditto here... I've been getting better at it but she has WAY more control than I do.

      Combination of ears skills (hearing your "filter" to know how to adjust it) tongue control (most people don't think that hard about the shape of their tongue at any given point in time... it's a really complex muscle that can do all sorts of interesting precision movements) and breath control (many of the harmonics don't sound right if you don't have the right air pressure behind them too much OR too little)

      My last car had interesting acoustics that the front wind shield reflected back my voice exceptionally well so I could really hear what was coming out of my mouth and the harmonics came through really well. Made honing the tones easier. (Good practice sessions on the commute :-)

  11. Decades ago I had a really bad sore throat. At one point, for a few miraculous minutes, I could sing two tones at once. I assumed my vocal cords got connected in the middle somewhere via open sores that partially stuck together.

    Imagine a beowulf cluster of castratos with this as a permanent feature!

    --
    (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
  12. Re:She has a great filter in her mouth.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Leave Bennett out of this.

  13. Artistic Excellence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is mathematics and music theory sung by a true artist. Excellent ! I'm blown away ! I searched for more of Anna-Maria's videos on youtube, and found that she plays the harp also.

  14. Re:Reminds me of marginally related things by Bite+The+Pillow · · Score: 1

    Sort of. There are many different styles of "throat singing". The basic component is to make a sound so raspy that it has a whole bunch of overtones. It's almost white noise. It's not a melodious note, and only serves as a basis for manipulation.

    Dag Kargyraa or Steppe Kargyraa are the best examples, and most well known.

    Overtone singing means moving the fundamental pitch around, which traditional throat singing does not do. It's the logical extension of throat singing, bringing it to the next level.

    Overtone singing, when I have heard it, employs a fundamental pitch that sounds good. Throat singing basically sounds like a bagpipe drone, serving only to allow the higher harmonics to stand out, while overtone singing is a normal singing voice and then some.

    Throat singing is not a duet with yourself - it is a single harmony line above the "white noise". Overtone singing, as in the last part of the example video, can truly be a duet with yourself. It is much more difficult, especially since the mouth has to filter for overtones which, though they may sound adjacent, are in reality very far apart because the fundamental tone has shifted.

  15. Re:Reminds me of marginally related things by Muad'Dave · · Score: 1

    Excellent analysis, Mr. Pillow. Thanks!

    --
    Tiller's Rule: Never use a word in written form that you've only heard and never read. You will end up looking foolish.