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Economist: US Congress Should Hack Digital Millennium Copyright Act

retroworks writes This week's print edition of The Economist has an essay on the Right to Tinker with hardware. From the story: "Exactly why copyright law should be involved in something that ought to be a simple matter of consumer rights is hard to fathom. Any rational interpretation would suggest that when people buy or pay off the loan on a piece of equipment—whether a car, a refrigerator or a mobile phone—they own it, and should be free to do what they want with it. Least of all should they have to seek permission from the manufacturer or the government."

129 comments

  1. Gov't does NOT help the "little guy" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Government regulations sure didn't help Eric Garner

    1. Re:Gov't does NOT help the "little guy" by dywolf · · Score: 1

      No, what didn't help Eric Garner was being choked by a police officer who told not to choke people.
      Would you say the same thing if he was detained as a possible suspect in a burglarly, hit or run, or other crime?

      The relevent facts, the only relevent facts are:
      -NYPD is not allowed to use chokehold compliance techniques due to numerous accidental deaths being caused by it in the past
      -The NYPD used a chokehold compliance technique on Eric Garner
      -Eric Garner then died as a result of said chokehold compliance technique.

      The reason for detainment is completely irrelevent to the case.
      He was being detained and an improper compliance technique was used, which resulted in his death at the hands of the NYPD.
      Thus also resulting in the denial of his his rights as an American Citizen to due process under the the Constitution.
      That's all that matters.

      --
      The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
  2. great US tradition... by Connie_Lingus · · Score: 1, Funny

    ...and when it blows up in their face, they should be allowed to sue to manufacturer too.

    --
    never bring a twinkie to a food fight.
    1. Re:great US tradition... by dywolf · · Score: 1

      you can sue anyone for anything in the country.
      you could probably sue a ham sandwich if you wanted.
      its been that from the start and not a recent trend.

      all that matters is that you can prove your case in a court of law.

      this is a good thing, as any arbitrary limits placed on a citizens right or ability to bring suit will invariably result in abuses by the potential plaintiffs who are now protected from suit. yes people bring stupid lawsuits. most of those lawsuits dont go anywhere when presented toa judge or a jury of peers. if they do, well tough kitty kibbles: that's our legal system is setup: if you can prove your case in a court of law, then so be it. this is an area where maximal freedom should be the norm.

      --
      The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
    2. Re:great US tradition... by dywolf · · Score: 0

      And because I know someone is giong to mention the McDonalds coffee lawsuit lady....

      most people who refer to that case dont know the facts of that case:
      An elderly woman (79yo) suffered 3rd degree burns across large portions of her lower body because the combination of the extremely hot coffee and the type of clothes she was wearing held the hot liquid in close contact with his skin which made the burns worse than would otherwise have been expected.

      She required extensive skin grafting as a result of said burns.

      She wasn't out for money: having total costs incurred of ~18k$ she sought a settlement with McD's for 20k.
      McD's offered her only 800$ instead.
      That's when she brought suit.

      Two mediations for arbitration were scheduled.
      McD's ignored both and did not attend even though it agreed to them each time.

      Documents obtained from McDonalds were presented at trial showing over 700 other people burned by the coffee, and that McD's had settled with them.
      McD's own quality control manager stated the number of complaints was too low to justify a change...but then also stated that foods hotter than 130F constituted a burn hazard. The latter statement was then used by elderly woman's attorneys to point out that McD's themselves had jsut acknoledged in court their coffee was likely to cause injury if consumed immediately.

      The jury quickly decided in her favor and then awarded her the 200k she was seeking, and an addition 2million in punitive damages against the company.
      This punitive amount was then reduced by the judge, resulting in total damamges awarded of ~640k.
      Both parties then appealed (McDs appealed first, and she appealed as well as a defensive tactic).
      They then settled out of court for less than the awarded amount.

      --
      The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
  3. Hack it? by Lumpy · · Score: 4, Interesting

    They should repeal it completely. But that will not happen as every one of those congress-critters are bought and paid for.

    Congress wants a more strict DMCA. Hell I bet some of those on capitol hill would support a death penalty for copyright violations.

    --
    Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    1. Re:Hack it? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Remember when Senator Orrin Hatch said copyright holders should get to destroy infringers' PCs?

    2. Re:Hack it? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      of course, then you woudln't have copyrights infringers anymore

    3. Re:Hack it? by DrStrangluv · · Score: 1

      Don't just ditch it. There are some important and useful parts in the DMCA... section 230, for instance.

    4. Re:Hack it? by lister+king+of+smeg · · Score: 2

      They should repeal it completely. But that will not happen as every one of those congress-critters are bought and paid for.

      Congress wants a more strict DMCA. Hell I bet some of those on capitol hill would support a death penalty for copyright violations.

      I don't think all of it should be abolished it completely, for example as a freenet node opporator appreciate the safe harbor clause.

      --
      ---Saying gnome 3 is better than windows 8 not so much a compliment as it is damning with light praise.
    5. Re:Hack it? by SJHillman · · Score: 2

      I believe you're thinking of the Telecommunications Act of 1996, not the DMCA

    6. Re:Hack it? by Austerity+Empowers · · Score: 2

      This is a case where someone like the EFF needs to get behind any individual who is hacking in a way clearly is NOT in violation of the intent of copyright/patent protection, let someone sue the doer and get the whole thing undone. I'd gladly throw money at them for a "DMCA kill opportunity fund". Congress will never get behind removing the DMCA, both parties have been bought and paid for.

      What will likely happen is any such case will be dropped, hacking will continue to be legal as long as you watch your ass, and you can't ever be sure. "Land of the free" my ass.

    7. Re:Hack it? by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1

      Please tell me someone in his office was then caught downloading something illegally.

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    8. Re:Hack it? by HiThere · · Score: 1

      IIRC, he also said that if by mistake they destroy a PC that didn't have any infringing software, they should suffer no penalty. Well, that's the way I recall it, but those weren't his words.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    9. Re:Hack it? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Please tell me someone in his office was then caught downloading something illegally.

      Almost as good. His website from around that time was created using an unlicensed version of whatever app (I forget the name now). You had to purchase a license to use the app. If it wasn't licensed, it inserted a watermark stating that an unlicensed copy had been used to create the page.

    10. Re:Hack it? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The EFF has been digging themselves out of hte pit that Jerry Berman put them in. When Mitch Kapor stepped down as president, Jerry took them to DC and became a for-sale telecom lobbyist, which is why theysupported the predecessor to the DMCA, the TCPA. That broke people's trust, and without firm leadership from someone with similar principals to Mitch Kapor and John Perry Barlow at the helm, and without their money, they've been like like Tom Lehrer's "Folk Song Army". They get all the good songs, but they don't get much done anymore.

  4. DMCA was always flawed ... by gstoddart · · Score: 5, Informative

    The DMCA was so badly written as to more or less entrench rent-seeking and remove property ownership from consumers.

    Instead of saying "yes, you bought this product, it's yours", they've entrenched the "oh, you've only licensed it and we will tell you how you're allowed to use it".

    Sorry, but if I bought it, I retain right of first sale. Which means I should be able to do anything I want with it, because it's my property.

    This absurd notion that they still own it and define what I can do with it is stupid. If I don't own it, why should I pay you for it?

    But, of course, the law was written to hastily ensure corporate rent seeking, because it was paid for by lobbyists.

    --
    Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    1. Re:DMCA was always flawed ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The DMCA was so badly written as to more or less entrench rent-seeking and remove property ownership from consumers.

      This is true with one exception - the DMCA was not badly written, it was exceptionally well written. This was the INTENDED effect.

      They would have you believe that the DMCA is to stop people from downloading copyrighted songs/videos/etc, but the true purpose was to provide them a legal means of market control. If no one can make (DVD/Blue ray players/that one tool required to fix your car) EXCEPT them, then they have a strangle hold on the market and can do as they please.

      The greatest scam politicians pull (And do so often) is convincing the public that a law is for something completely different then it actually is.

    2. Re:DMCA was always flawed ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "This absurd notion that they still own it and define what I can do with it is stupid. If I don't own it, why should I pay you for it?"

      You might be too young to remember this, but back when AT&T had a national monopoly on telecom, you could not BUY a telephone. There was no phone in existence that you could legally buy and then connect to an AT&T phone line.

      What you could do, was LEASE a phone from AT&T. It was not ever your phone. It was AT&T's phone, you were just paying for the privilege of using it.

      Modern cellular companies have taken up a similar business model. When you "buy" a phone from Verizon, you're not actually "buying" a phone. You're leasing a phone. It is not and will not ever be your phone, it belongs to Verizon, you're just using it.

    3. Re:DMCA was always flawed ... by Kjella · · Score: 1

      To be fair, you couldn't do "anything you want" with a dead tree book either, at least not if it involved putting it a photocopier and share with a million friends. The problem with the DMCA is that it's a general umbrella against copying and everything else they don't like you to do with it. And through the decryption key license agreement they got all the companies making players by the balls.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    4. Re:DMCA was always flawed ... by Pikoro · · Score: 3, Interesting

      This is also why acoustic couplers were invented. Since anything plugged directly into the phone line was "against the law", hackers worked around it. You plugged your phone into the line, and the acoustic coupler into your computer/device, and you placed the telephone handset on the acoustic coupler. You were not actually plugging your device into the phone line, thereby bypassing the "law".

      --
      "Freedom in the USA is not the ability to do what you want. It is the ability to stop others from doing what THEY want"
    5. Re:DMCA was always flawed ... by Voyager529 · · Score: 2

      The DMCA was so badly written as to more or less entrench rent-seeking and remove property ownership from consumers.

      Instead of saying "yes, you bought this product, it's yours", they've entrenched the "oh, you've only licensed it and we will tell you how you're allowed to use it".

      Sorry, but if I bought it, I retain right of first sale. Which means I should be able to do anything I want with it, because it's my property.

      This becomes much more interesting in 2014 than it was when the DMCA was first passed. Back in those days, "mobile software" was typically shipped on a CD, and installed on a mobile device by way of a docking station. This is far less common now than it was at that time. Moreover, the "this product is yours" logic becomes murky with tablets and other similar tech. I ran into this recently myself. A friend of mine gave me a tablet. He got it in a BOGO sale last year at Verizon Wireless; said BOGO sale only required a one year contract. The contract was fulfilled, and he gave it to me as a gift. As a T-Mobile subscriber, I was hoping to put my SIM card into it and use my data plan. Despite Verizon having no further claim to ownership on the device, the tablet was SIM unlocked, but had the ability to manually add APNs disabled. Thus, they can legally claim "SIM unlocked", but without rooting and manually editing the build.prop file, I can't add an APN to actually use another carrier.

      Even beyond that oddly specific example, many tablets are largely dependent on other services. Samsung phones, if wiped without some sort of 'blessing' from Samsung, go into a locked state that require either reflashing or login. This is all well and good, but is removing that restriction technically a DMCA violation? Is the existence of a technological barrier the correct means to determine ownership of a device? On the other hand, if one were to modify a phone's baseband in such a way that has it working on the wrong frequencies, or configured in order to make a mess of the cell tower, does the "it's my phone" argument still hold? If a device is symbiotically linked to online services (it's quite a pain to use an Android device without a Google account, or an iPhone without iCloud, in their default states), how does the use of those services come into play with regards to the expectations of functionality?

      Meh, this is why I'm still a Windows Mobile fan at heart - for all its faults, it ACTED like the device belonged to the owner, not Microsoft.

    6. Re:DMCA was always flawed ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The problem was always that they wanted it both ways.
      If I've bought it, I own it, and I can do with it whatever I want.
      If I've licensed it, I expect to see the terms and conditions of that license somewhere, anywhere, but in any case I won't have to pay for the same thing again if it gets damaged. No more payment for getting my fifth copy of that album because I've lost and broken it so often, I'm now entitled to download or stream it as often as I want, because hey - I've already licensed it.

      You can even try to have it both ways, and some people will fall for it. But here's the thing - You can only make up the rules on what I'm paying for until I've handed over the money. That gives me a fair chance to decide not to purchase said item from you.

    7. Re:DMCA was always flawed ... by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

      To be fair, you couldn't do "anything you want" with a dead tree book either, at least not if it involved putting it a photocopier and share with a million friends.

      That not fair because that's not remotely what we're talking about. That's not doing anything you want with it, that's making more of it. The thing itself is not changed. That's why we have a whole separate body of law for IP, because it's fundamentally different from physical items. If you buy a book, you're free to rip out chapters and then sell it as the expurgated version, or make notes in the margins and sell it as the annotated version, so long as you don't misrepresent it — but that's not even violation of copyright, that's misuse of trademark.

      Psystar's case proved that you're not free to do the same thing to digital works. Sure, they were fudging slightly, they didn't use the actual disc, but they used the equivalent which in the case of IP should be good enough. If you can't prove after the fact which disc was used, it's irrelevant.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    8. Re:DMCA was always flawed ... by tepples · · Score: 1

      That gives me a fair chance to decide not to purchase said item from you.

      Unless, for example, it is proprietary software that your government requires you to use for filing tax returns or otherwise keeping your business license valid.

    9. Re:DMCA was always flawed ... by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If no one can make (DVD/Blue ray players/that one tool required to fix your car) EXCEPT them, then they have a strangle hold on the market and can do as they please.

      Exactly. It is in no way in my interests as a consumer to have, say, a region-locked DVD player, or a Blu-ray player that won't let me skip to the contents I want to watch instead of sitting through legal notices that don't even apply in my jurisdiction, or a PVR where I can't transfer my HD recordings to a different PVR if the first player is defective and needs to be returned. There is literally no-one who gains from these restrictions, not even the content creators or the manufacturers.

      However, the current state of intellectual property laws prevents anyone from (lawfully) competing in that market with a better offering, because patents and anti-circumvention rules make for very good ways to be anti-competitive without actually breaking any laws. And that is in the interests of the organisations that control those rights.

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    10. Re:DMCA was always flawed ... by xaotikdesigns · · Score: 1
      Actually, no, the phone you buy from Verizon Wireless is yours. You can buy a compatible phone from anywhere, you can sell your phone to anybody. You can even bring phones from other carriers or even build one yourself in your basement.

      Though if you build one yoruself, they will require the ability to test it to ensure it doesn't harm the network in anyway.

      --
      XDInd
    11. Re:DMCA was always flawed ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't know about the specific tablet you speak about, but it could have been a radio issue. Verizon and T-Mobile work on totally different technologies, and if the tablet did not do GSM, but only did 1xRT/EVDO, than it is very likely it had nothing to do with VZ being deceptive.

    12. Re:DMCA was always flawed ... by bigpat · · Score: 1

      I really hope nobody is still leasing land line phones... But according to that article as of 2007 there were still about 580,000 mostly older or elderly people leasing land line phones.

      If you have a parent or grandparent, maybe you can help them get out of one of these leases... seriously: take a look at what your grandma (or someone's grandma) is still paying every month on her phone

      • Traditional Rotary - Monthly Lease Rate: $4.45
      • Traditional TouchTone - Monthly Lease Rate: $5.95 (now we are getting fancy)
      • Trimline® Rotary - Monthly Lease Rate: $5.25
      • Trimline® Touch Tone - Monthly Lease Rate: $6.45 (Currently the equivalent style phone is selling on Amazon for less than $10)
      • And it goes on. Basically the equivalent of most of these phones can be purchased for less than a few months of what they charge for a lease, but their customer service will convince your grandparents that they are still living in the 1960s and they need to continue to lease their phone in order to keep phone service.
    13. Re:DMCA was always flawed ... by sjames · · Score: 1

      Sure, but the transaction of renting the phone didn't look at all like a purchase either. It looked like a rental and if the phone failed, AT&T would fix or replace it unless it was very clearly abused. Because it was rented, there was no such thing as "out of warranty".

      So to modify the statement, "if I just rented it, better send a replacement when it fails".

      Of course, then the courts decide that the practice wasn't legal and forced them to allow anything meeting their published technical specs to be plugged in.

    14. Re:DMCA was always flawed ... by sjames · · Score: 1

      On the other hand, if one were to modify a phone's baseband in such a way that has it working on the wrong frequencies, or configured in order to make a mess of the cell tower, does the "it's my phone" argument still hold?

      Yes, in a rational world it is very definitely still your phone. But if you jam the tower or transmit outside the frequencies you are permitted, you may be criminally and civilly liable.

  5. Already lost the "complete freedom" argument... by xxxJonBoyxxx · · Score: 4, Interesting

    >> Any rational interpretation would suggest that when people buy or pay off the loan on a piece of equipment—whether a car, a refrigerator or a mobile phone—they own it, and should be free to do what they want with it.

    This argument has already lost in the public square WHEN IT HARMS OTHER PEOPLE. For example:
    * If you own a refrigerator, it's already illegal to just discharge the coolant into the environment
    * If you own a car, it's already illegal to just set it on fire, and in many places you can't store it certain places (like your front lawn)

    If you narrow it down a bit (e.g., "root your phone = legal but proceed at your own risk") I could get behind this guy, but when we're starting to talk about hacking automobile electronics that other drivers and pedestrians depend upon for their own safety...you can probably see where we're developing a slippery slope.

    1. Re:Already lost the "complete freedom" argument... by iggymanz · · Score: 2

      people have been modding car engines for over a century, get over it. If someone kills a person with their car, existing law covers that situation.

    2. Re:Already lost the "complete freedom" argument... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      people have been modding car engines for over a century, get over it. If someone kills a person with their car, existing law covers that situation.

      That's right.

      "Modify" your car by not maintaining the brakes and you rear-end someone or run over a pedestrian well, you're at fault regardless of the reason.

    3. Re:Already lost the "complete freedom" argument... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You can mod your fridge to run on alternative refrigerant, you just have to ensure you don't harm others when doing so (ie: You may not pollute). You should be able to mod your Playstation with a modchip, but you have to be certain not to pollute while doing it (ie: Don't use lead based solder... although frankly the pollution is rather different than refrigerant pollution since its your own home, so chances are nobody cares).

      You can mod your car to have a remote starter, you just have to ensure you don't harm others when doing so (ie: Don't put one in a manual if it doesn't have a safety interlock to ensure it isn't in gear). You should be able to mod your phone with new software, but you have to ensure you don't harm others when doing so (ie: Don't mod it with software that turns it into a jamming device).

      You don't even have to narrow it down, the exact same rules should apply between all these items. All mods are legal so long as there is no direct harm to others.

    4. Re:Already lost the "complete freedom" argument... by JeffOwl · · Score: 1

      ... but when we're starting to talk about hacking automobile electronics that other drivers and pedestrians depend upon for their own safety...you can probably see where we're developing a slippery slope.

      And yet I can take the stock brakes off my car and install after market, or even home built custom components to alter the performance of one of the most safety critical systems on the vehicle. I can even custom build an entire vehicle if I want to. (Well, I probably shouldn't).

      I would suggest that the skill/coordination/attention/mental stability of the driver is by orders of magnitude a larger risk than anyone tinkering with the ECU or other electronic systems on the vehicle today.

    5. Re:Already lost the "complete freedom" argument... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Straw man -- go f* yourself. You are the problem with American society today and I hope that you are just trolling versus truly believing what you just wrote. The gist of the argument isn't people should be allowed to use things they own or rent to hurt others, the argument is: when someone purchases a product, they should be entitled to own it.

      The real problem here is that various forms of intellectual property have been combined to squeeze consumers into a corner. [X] device makes life easier, has become a social norm, is required for work, or whatever other justification for its purchase. Company [Y] has a patent on [X] so that for the next 21 years the control it's distribution. They apply a firmware that restricts the usage of [X] device relying upon the DMCA and copyright law to prevent you, or others, from making the device more useful or extending it's life beyond the artificial limitations imposed by Company [Y].

      Despite that fact that you've paid the device off, Company [Y] has stopped supporting that version of the device, and you have physical possession and the ability to modify it, doing so is now a criminal offense (despite not causing harm to anyone) because the government says so. It's completely ridiculous--at least to me. I do not put corporate profits above all things, which is probably the failing here. The fact that we purchase and accept these artificial and economically driven limitations is a sad state of affairs.

      I have a 7 year old laptop that is perfectly usable, except for the fact that the manufacture has locked it down specifically to create an artificial limitation on it's usefulness in order to maximize their profits. I no longer purchase any products from that company and encourage everyone I know to move away. The US needs a return to quality, not an headlong dash into planned obsolescence backed by governmental protectionism.

      It's pitiful. Completely pitiful. And argument that it "could" harm the children should, similarly, be thrown away.

      God damn it; I'm mad as hell...but I'll keep taking it because I have bills to pay and a family to feed. Motherf*ers.

    6. Re:Already lost the "complete freedom" argument... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why do you say the argument has lost? You can't harm other people, and you can't break other laws, and that applies no matter if you're creating something yourself or modifying something someone else made.

      The argument is perfectly valid. Remember, we're talking about the aspect of the DMCA that manufacturers can lock down devices to prevent anything they want, even though you own the device. The fact that you can't break other laws in the process has nothing to do with whether or not the manufacturer should be allowed to prevent it, e.g. via DRM.

    7. Re:Already lost the "complete freedom" argument... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >> Any rational interpretation would suggest that when people buy or pay off the loan on a piece of equipment—whether a car, a refrigerator or a mobile phone—they own it, and should be free to do what they want with it.

      This argument has already lost in the public square WHEN IT HARMS OTHER PEOPLE. For example:
      * If you own a refrigerator, it's already illegal to just discharge the coolant into the environment
      * If you own a car, it's already illegal to just set it on fire, and in many places you can't store it certain places (like your front lawn)

      Extremely bad examples. For the first case it has nothing to do with the refrigerator itself. If you were to obtain a similar coolant from any other source and tried to dispose it in the environment that would be just as illegal. Likewise you can discharge the coolant from your refrigerator as much as you like as long as you collect it and dispose of it properly.
      You have a similar situation with the car. It's not what you do with the car itself that is the problem, it's having an uncontrolled fire in a densely populated area that is the problem, as well as the environmental damage.
      Storing it on the front lawn wouldn't have been a problem if it didn't leak toxic chemicals into the ground water that way.
      Now compare burning your own vehicle with burning your neighbors vehicle. It's a pretty different situation.

      I expect BadAnalogyGuy to post those examples next time.

    8. Re:Already lost the "complete freedom" argument... by tapspace · · Score: 1

      While your comment is completely reasonable out of context, in the context of this discussion it is completely anti-freedom. The problem here is that the DMCA makes rights opt-in by government, rather than out-out. That is to say that laws like the DMCA assume that you have no rights unless the government or a corporation allows you them explicitly. That is so anti-American it makes me want to vomit. The standard arrangement needs to be that you can do with your property whatever you please as long as you aren't violating other laws which are in place to secure others' safety, the environment, etc.

      In summary, you are right that in a civilized society, we can't just do whatever we please, but you are wrong that a sensible solution is to make a law which carte blanche disallows consumers from free modification of their own property. That's like the worst solution to the problem. In a free society (assuming that's what we are), the solution is to create laws which narrowly limit freedoms to promote public good on an ad hoc basis for an explicit and narrow purpose and rely on tort law to fill the gap until such time that new laws with reasonable scope can be created as needed.

    9. Re:Already lost the "complete freedom" argument... by twistedsymphony · · Score: 1

      your example of car modifications is bad because:
      1. Many MANY people already heavily modify their cars and historically this has not been problematic to the safety of other drivers or pedestrians.
      2. There are already safegards for this in place such as annual safety and emissions inspectsion. Granted not every state requires this, but I see nothing wrong with a law that states "your car must meet these safety parameter to be driven on public roads". which could include (an in many states already does include) a sanity check on the engine control module.

    10. Re:Already lost the "complete freedom" argument... by cayenne8 · · Score: 1

      2. There are already safegards for this in place such as annual safety and emissions inspectsion. Granted not every state requires this, but I see nothing wrong with a law that states "your car must meet these safety parameter to be driven on public roads". which could include (an in many states already does include) a sanity check on the engine control module.

      Ahh...nice to live in a state where there aren't any emissions checks. I didn't realize this was something states other than CA did frankly, until recently reading posts like this on /.

      And even here..inspection is just honk horn, turn on lights and wipers and you're good to go.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    11. Re:Already lost the "complete freedom" argument... by mrchaotica · · Score: 1

      There's a HUGE difference that you're ignoring: those things you mention as not being allowed to do are already illegal. They're laws that were put in place according to the democratic process.

      In contrast, what the DMCA says is effectively "anything the copyright holder unilaterally decides he doesn't like is also illegal, with no public debate or recourse whatsoever."

      If you narrow it down a bit (e.g., "root your phone = legal but proceed at your own risk") I could get behind this guy, but when we're starting to talk about hacking automobile electronics that other drivers and pedestrians depend upon for their own safety...you can probably see where we're developing a slippery slope.

      Absolutely not. People have always "hacked" their cars (ever hear of a thing called a "hot rod?!"); it is not magically different just because it's suddenly electronic! It is not and should never be illegal to modify your own property; the only thing the law could legitimately regulate is what the person does with it afterwards (e.g. car modification is legal; street racing is not).

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    12. Re:Already lost the "complete freedom" argument... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How does someone hacking the hardware/software in their car differ from the guy 40 years ago that modified his own cars engine to increase performance?
       
      Wouldn't that guy have endangered public safety as well bypassing those restrictions built into the vehicle?

    13. Re:Already lost the "complete freedom" argument... by Pikoro · · Score: 1

      Anyone else remember when electronics came with circuit diagrams on the inside of the [easily] removable cover? Things didn't require special tools to work on and repair yourself. Oh, and you could actually BUY replacement parts instead of tossing the whole thing in the bin and getting a new one?

      --
      "Freedom in the USA is not the ability to do what you want. It is the ability to stop others from doing what THEY want"
    14. Re:Already lost the "complete freedom" argument... by jedidiah · · Score: 2

      You are at fault for the condition of your car regardless. This is true whether you maintain your own brakes, you let someone else do it, or you just ignore it. This is why you don't need "extra special anti-hacking laws". The laws from 3000 years ago already adequately address the "new" problems people are worried about.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    15. Re:Already lost the "complete freedom" argument... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Now that you mention it, I recently bought a '60s-vintage reel-to-reel tape recorder that had a circuit diagram taped inside that could be found when you opened it up to work on it. The diagram had been baked to a crisp around its edges by the nearby tubes, but it was still basically usable.

    16. Re:Already lost the "complete freedom" argument... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And it harm none, do as ye will.

    17. Re:Already lost the "complete freedom" argument... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hmm, another greybeard on Sloshdat. Now get off my lawn...

    18. Re:Already lost the "complete freedom" argument... by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      I don't know about the US, but here in the UK building a custom vehicle means subjecting it to a very strict testing process. Like the MOT, except far tougher to pass. If you meet the standards, the vehicle gets a certificate declaring it road-legal.

    19. Re:Already lost the "complete freedom" argument... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      when we're starting to talk about hacking automobile electronics that other drivers and pedestrians depend upon for their own safety

      If it's important for public safety reasons, then it should be covered by public regulations and enforced by the government. Not left to the whim of the manufacturer, who has no particular incentive to benefit the public.

      This isn't like a government regulation saying you're not allowed to discharge coolant from your fridge. It's like giving the fridge manufacturer the right to prevent you from discharging coolant from your fridge - and also from storing foodstuffs from non-approved suppliers, or from powering the fridge unless your electricity provider is the one that they endorse.

    20. Re:Already lost the "complete freedom" argument... by xaotikdesigns · · Score: 1

      You can modify your car however you want. But it may become illegal to drive on public roads. In PA, we have to have our cars inspected every year to ensure that they are "safe" to drive. This has nothing to do with ownership or licensing.

      --
      XDInd
    21. Re:Already lost the "complete freedom" argument... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The laws from 3000 years ago

      Judging by your UID, that's almost as old as you!

    22. Re:Already lost the "complete freedom" argument... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't think it's as difficult as you think it is. After all, James May got an MOT certification for a motorcycle made completely out of Meccano. You can see it in a 2013 special of "James May's Toy Stories".

    23. Re:Already lost the "complete freedom" argument... by sjames · · Score: 1

      I still own the fridge. I may be barred by law from venting the refrigerant to the atmosphere but that law is entirely separate from the question of ownership. As long as I properly recover the refrigerant, I am free to modify it. It's not the manufacturer's choice at all.

      Same for the car, it's between me and the law, the manufacturer gets no say.

      As for the car electronics, once again, no say for the manufacturer. If the state has a safety concern, it may insist that I get a SAFETY certification IF the car will be driven on public roads. If I have modified the car such that it cannot pass a safety inspection, I may have additional restrictions when I sell it (at least full disclosure of it's usability on public roads).

    24. Re:Already lost the "complete freedom" argument... by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      All touchup solder is still lead based.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    25. Re:Already lost the "complete freedom" argument... by steelfood · · Score: 1

      It is a complete straw man. GP is talking about liability, whereas TFA is talking about the illegality of circumventing electronic protections.

      These are two completely different things. If GP is advocating for the anti-circumvention measures of the DMCA, GP would be advocating for throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Not cool.

      --
      "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be."
  6. Bought and paid for? by danaris · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Any rational interpretation would suggest that when people buy or pay off the loan on a piece of equipment—whether a car, a refrigerator or a mobile phone—they own it, and should be free to do what they want with it. Least of all should they have to seek permission from the manufacturer or the government.

    Any rational interpretation would suggest that when rich people and large corporations buy or pay off the loan on a congressperson, they own it, and should be free to get whatever legislation out of it they see fit. Least of all should they have to deal with interference from busybody economists trying to tell them what's "rational."

    Dan Aris

    --
    Fun. Free. Online. RPG. BattleMaster.
  7. shouldn't this apply to software too? by jsepeta · · Score: 3, Interesting

    If I buy software, shouldn't I have the right to modify it? But I bet most software LICENSES have wording that says I cannot.

    --
    Remember kids, if you're not paying for the service, YOU ARE THE PRODUCT THAT IS BEING SOLD.
    1. Re:shouldn't this apply to software too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > If I buy software, shouldn't I have the right to modify it? But I bet most software LICENSES have wording that says I cannot.

      There are two problems with this, legally. If the software is copyrighted, you can't make a derivative work without permission, and that's what modifying it is doing. It seems silly to say that a modified program you use only on your own computer is any more a "derivative work" than clipping photos out of newspapers is, but the EULA typically specifies conditions you must agree to in order to use the software, and you don't really get a say. All the rights are with the creator.

      The second is the issue with patents. Current US patent law says, "whoever without authority makes, uses, offers to sell, or sells any patented invention, within the United States or imports into the United States any patented invention during the term of the patent therefor, infringes the patent." Emphasis added - if the invention is patented, you may own the object but you still need the inventor's authorization just to USE it.

    2. Re:shouldn't this apply to software too? by blueshift_1 · · Score: 2

      Typically, you're buying the license to use it, not the actual software itself. Buying an entire piece of software is a much more costly proposition.

    3. Re:shouldn't this apply to software too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Usage license. Unless the license also allows for modification. Fortunately, such licenses also exist!

      Software is a really interesting issue regarding property rights, to be honest.

    4. Re:shouldn't this apply to software too? by Plunky · · Score: 1

      If the software is copyrighted, you can't make a derivative work without permission, and that's what modifying it is doing. It seems silly to say that a modified program you use only on your own computer is any more a "derivative work" than clipping photos out of newspapers is, but the EULA typically specifies conditions you must agree to in order to use the software, and you don't really get a say. All the rights are with the creator.

      This is not correct. The copyright only restricts distribution. As in, you are not allowed to distribute a derivative work without permission. You certainly are allowed to create derivative works for your own usage. Also, clipping photos out of a newspaper is not creating a derivative work anyway, it depends what you do with them. I suppose if you clip a photo, trace some outlines and colour it in with crayon.. that would be a derivative work, depending on how closely it resembles the original. If significantly different it might be considered a new work.

    5. Re:shouldn't this apply to software too? by mrchaotica · · Score: 1

      It seems silly to say that a modified program you use only on your own computer is any more a "derivative work" than clipping photos out of newspapers is, but the EULA typically specifies conditions you must agree to in order to use the software, and you don't really get a say. All the rights are with the creator.

      The EULA is bunk, null and void. First, it is a contract of adhesion: by the time you are forced to "agree" to it you already own the software, so there is nothing for you to agree to. For the same reason, there is nothing you gain by agreeing (i.e., there is no "consideration"). Second, US copyright law explicitly says that installing software (e.g. copying it onto a hard drive) doesn't count as "making a copy" for the purpose of copyright. Since there is no action that could trigger the law to begin with, the EULA cannot apply.

      In other words, every "right" an EULA "grants" you is something you already have the right to do, so there is no legally-defensible argument for enforcing the restrictions it imposes.

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    6. Re:shouldn't this apply to software too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Additionally to the comments of others here, the Berne Convention on Copyright, which your laws enact DO NOT class as a copy restricted by copyright those copies required for the NORMAL USE of the product AS SOLD.

      Installation is required, therefore NOT COPYRIGHT CONTROLLED.

      Remember, you can REMEMBER what you just saw or read or heard, AND THAT IS A COPY TOO. Do you need a license to read a book? Definitely NOT.

    7. Re:shouldn't this apply to software too? by gnasher719 · · Score: 1

      Copyright restricts _any_ copying, and the exclusive rights of the copyright holder, like the creation of derivative works. You may be confused by the GPL which allows you to create derivative works for your own usage.

      In principle, even running a program without a license means the program gets copied to RAM, and therefore is copyright infringement. (Microsoft, Apple, Google etc. could probably sue anyone stealing a computer or smartphone or tablet for copyright infringement if the thief ever used the computer).

    8. Re:shouldn't this apply to software too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This, right here, is the most important change that needs to happen to copyright law: creating a transient copy of something (in RAM, or equivalent) shouldn't count as copying at all.

      That change alone would de-fang the stupider clauses in most EULAs.

    9. Re:shouldn't this apply to software too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > This is not correct. The copyright only restricts distribution.

      Who told you that? Have you read the actual law? It gives the copyright holder exclusive rights to reproduction, derivative works and distribution.

      http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/106

      Section 117 specifically allows non-infringing copying and modification of software, but only if it's an essential step in utilizing the program. I.e. if you can run the program as-is, you don't have the right to modify it.

    10. Re:shouldn't this apply to software too? by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      If you have legally acquired software, you are explicitly permitted to make any copies necessary in the normal process of running the software. IIRC, you are also allowed one backup copy. (IANAL, and as always if you are going to base any important decisions on details of the law you should get advice from random pseudonymous people from random jurisdictions on the Internet.)

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  8. Don't repeal the entire DMCA by tepples · · Score: 5, Interesting

    A complete repeal of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act would also repeal the Online Copyright Infringement Liability Limitation Act (OCILLA). Such a repeal would make it much easier to find online service providers liable for their subscribers' actions. Remember that YouTube's successful defense against Viacom was that it qualified for the OCILLA safe harbor.

  9. DMCA is ok as it is by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What's wrong with a system that allows fucktards like Religious cult nuts, Anita Sarkeesian (FF) and Zoe Quinn (CVV/LV) to take down videos that criticise them? And they do so based on minor technicalities such as using a screen capture or 30s sequence from their own publicly available photos/clips? Youtube critics are there to be silenced or have their account suspended!

  10. Please can we try to use the English language? by argStyopa · · Score: 1

    Nowhere in the Economist article do they use the word "hack" because - again - some dipshit is using the word "hack" to mean approximately whatever the hell they want it to mean.

    "Hack" != "use"
    "Hack" != "terminate"
    "Hack" != "amend"

    Either send your editors back to junior high grammar, or maybe exercise some editorial judgement and stop this silliness.

    --
    -Styopa
    1. Re:Please can we try to use the English language? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Which dialect of English is != please?

    2. Re:Please can we try to use the English language? by Himmy32 · · Score: 2

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R...

      MATLAB, C, C++, C#, Go, Java, JavaScript, Perl (numerical comparison only), PHP, Python, Ruby, and R

      It's pretty common shorthand for not equal to.

    3. Re: Please can we try to use the English language? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Most programming languages... perhaps you should visit news for non-nerds.

    4. Re:Please can we try to use the English language? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Comparison operators are typically not defined as part of most languages which have been developed for human communication. What argStyopa was doing was using a common shorthand to represent the "not equals" symbol. A symbol which is not on a standard keyboard and thus difficult for many to type. Additionally, Slashdot does not support displaying this character, and the OP likely determined that this was the best alternative because it is understood by most techies, which is what the target demographic for this website it.

      Hope that clears things up for you. :)

    5. Re: Please can we try to use the English language? by tepples · · Score: 1

      I think AC #48548191 was asking a rhetorical question to imply that if the introduction of operator "!=" to English prose is acceptable, so is the generalization of "hack" to mean "amend".

    6. Re:Please can we try to use the English language? by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      So you're saying it's the work of a hack writer?

  11. Removing the DMCA is not possible. by Zombie+Ryushu · · Score: 1

    Removing the DMCA is not possible. It would require a complete revolution against the US Government on the issue eliminating all participants in every branch of the Government as too many people see the rights of users to control their electronic equipment as the catalyst for a world wide economic depression the likes of which we have never seen,

    The US Population has been conditioned since the days of the Atari 2600 Crash of 1983 to believe that limiations on who has the right to make software should be tightly controlled and if its not the result is Market Collapse. This is because the NES "Saved" the Video game industry.

    1. Re:Removing the DMCA is not possible. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The US Population has been conditioned since the days of the Atari 2600 Crash of 1983 to believe that limiations on who has the right to make software should be tightly controlled and if its not the result is Market Collapse. This is because the NES "Saved" the Video game industry.

      I realize you're trying to be funny with this rather than serious, but I can't tell if there's supposed to be a parallel to some reality that makes it funny rather than just being an absolutely ridiculous statement. Are you able to clarify for my whooshiness?

  12. Not DMCA as much as CDMA by tepples · · Score: 1
    Just because DMCA and CDMA have the same effect in the final round of Wheel of Fortune doesn't mean they're the same thing.

    When you "buy" a phone from Verizon, you're not actually "buying" a phone. You're leasing a phone. It is not and will not ever be your phone, it belongs to Verizon, you're just using it.

    I was under the impression that this problem was limited to carriers using the CDMA2000 stack, which allows the carrier to program the subscriber identity directly into the handset. In the United States market, that means Verizon, Sprint, and Sprint's MVNOs. The GSM stack, on the other hand, was designed from the ground up for unlocked phones and SIM-only plans to be sold separately, where the manufacturer answers only to the FCC and the GSM patent pool, not any particular carrier.

    1. Re:Not DMCA as much as CDMA by xaotikdesigns · · Score: 1

      CDMA phones do have an ESN or MEID that is specific to the phone itself, but as long as the carriers have the same phones and technology, you can generally take them between carriers. They may need to have the software flashed to the right version for the carrier for some of the features to work, but otherwise, it's possible.

      --
      XDInd
    2. Re:Not DMCA as much as CDMA by tepples · · Score: 1

      They may need to have the software flashed to the right version for the carrier for some of the features to work

      And when carriers refuse to flash any phone that isn't theirs, you get lock-in.

    3. Re: Not DMCA as much as CDMA by xaotikdesigns · · Score: 1

      Actually, there were a few laws passed regarding this, and for a lot of the devices, they can't refuse. I used to work there, I remember all the trainings and such we had to complete for it.

      --
      XDInd
    4. Re:Not DMCA as much as CDMA by dryeo · · Score: 1

      My GSM phone is locked to my provider. They're supposed to unlock it once the contract is up (in Canada) and there are lots of directions on the net on how to do it as well as small shops offering the service but strictly speaking unlocking your own phone is now illegal due to updated laws pushed by America.

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
    5. Re: Not DMCA as much as CDMA by tepples · · Score: 1

      Actually, there were a few laws passed regarding this

      In which country? In the USA, Ting (last time I checked) worked only with Sprint-branded devices, not Verizon devices or devices branded to one of the Sprint wholly owned MVNOs (Boost and Virgin).

  13. Hush-A-Phone by tepples · · Score: 1

    At first, AT&T argued that even acoustic couplers were illegal. See Hush-A-Phone.

  14. Sure. Why not? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It would fail, but there's fuck all that stops anyone, individual or manufacturer from suing for any, or no, reason.

  15. The owner of a lawfully made copy by tepples · · Score: 1

    Buying a copy of a copyrighted computer program on the open market gives the owner of a copy the right to resell that copy (17 USC 109) and make necessary private modifications (17 USC 117(a)(1)). Only shrink-wrap and click-wrap agreements take away this right.

  16. If you don't have the source by wiredog · · Score: 1

    you don't have the modifiable part of the software.

  17. Incorrect by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You CAN photocopy a dead tree book.

    Backup, if the original copy is destroyed, free lending to family.

    And if it's out of copyright, YES, to a million friends.

    Why not to a million friends if it's in copyright? Because you're taking market away from the copyright owner who would sell their copy to those million friends.

    But how does that apply to a device you're NOT copying?

    PS lets remember, NOBODY shares with a million friends. A few dozen at most. Who share with none or a very few friends, who share with one, one or a very few friends and, very quickly, the copies have gone to everyone, with NOT ONE having shared with a million friends. Not even a thousand. And almost none of them even to a hundred.

    So please stop with the hyperbollocks of "millions of friends" because if THAT is the problem which copyright and DMCA are meant to solve, THEN THEY ARE REDUNDANT since those acts NEVER HAPPEN with P2P.

  18. OCILLA vs. right to refuse service to anyone by tepples · · Score: 1

    You're seeing the intersection of 2 things.

    The first thing is OCILLA (17 USC 512). Online service providers have a duty under OCILLA to take down a subscriber's copy of allegedly infringing work on a copyright owner's reasonable request. The subscriber can plead that the use is not infringing, such as if it is a fair use of the complainant's work, to have the work put back up.

    But the second thing is that service providers reserve the right to refuse service to anyone for any reason (other than perhaps membership in a protected class under antidiscrimination statutes). This goes double for service providers that offer a service to subscribers without charge, such as YouTube. So instead of actually putting the video back up, the provider can say "We have put your video back up pursuant to OCILLA. However, we have since decided to decline to continue to host it for other reasons." YouTube has chosen to do this with videos identified as copies of works owned by certain publishers pursuant to confidential Content ID contracts with those publishers.

  19. Suits without merit by tepples · · Score: 3, Informative

    there's fuck all that stops anyone, individual or manufacturer from suing for any, or no, reason.

    There exist rules against suits without merit, which can cause the plaintiff to have to pay the defendant's reasonable attorney's fees, sometimes with punitive damages tacked on for wasting the defendant's time. If plaintiff's counsel repeatedly fails to diligently investigate the merit of each case, counsel might end up fined or even disbarred.

    1. Re:Suits without merit by Jawnn · · Score: 3, Insightful

      there's fuck all that stops anyone, individual or manufacturer from suing for any, or no, reason.

      There exist rules against suits without merit, which can cause the plaintiff to have to pay the defendant's reasonable attorney's fees, sometimes with punitive damages tacked on for wasting the defendant's time. If plaintiff's counsel repeatedly fails to diligently investigate the merit of each case, counsel might end up fined or even disbarred.

      Yes, but that does not prevent assholes from bringing worthless lawsuits. It might discourage even marginally circumspect lawyers from doing so, but the burden to challenge the merit of an action, once initiated, rests with the respondent.

    2. Re:Suits without merit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You basically confirmed what parent said. There is nothing to stop anyone from doing it. There's only a slap on the wrist afterwards.

    3. Re:Suits without merit by tepples · · Score: 1

      How exactly are punitive fines and threat of losing your license to practice law "a slap on the wrist"?

  20. Bought and paid for lawmakers by oic0 · · Score: 1

    And the corporations would argue that they should be able to do as they please with their bought and paid for law makers. Duh...

  21. No need for console maker veto anymore by tepples · · Score: 1

    The US Population has been conditioned since the days of the Atari 2600 Crash of 1983 to believe that limiations on who has the right to make software should be tightly controlled and if its not the result is Market Collapse.

    I've collected some of the console peasants' arguments in this page. But this 1980s argument that "the market needs the console maker to act as a sole curator with veto power" has largely evaporated thanks to the Internet. First, it's easier to find a reviewer whose tastes match yours. Second, the playable demo has been around since the shareware era. And third, much of the 1983-1984 crash of the North American video game market was due to distributors that would offer retailers a money-back guarantee for returned unsold product but then go bankrupt. Paid downloads have made returned unsold product largely a thing of the past.

  22. "hard to fathom" by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

    What kind of idiot economist says things like this? It's designed to enrich the corporations and take away the rights of the People. It does a great job at that. It's what critics said would happen before it was enacted and the power structure likes it just fine. You sound like a fool when you pretend it's a mistake.

    --
    My God, it's Full of Source!
    OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
  23. EULA URL on package by tepples · · Score: 1

    First, it is a contract of adhesion: by the time you are forced to "agree" to it you already own the software, so there is nothing for you to agree to.

    Nowadays PC software is often sold as a download instead of as a CD, which means you usually have to agree to some terms before clicking Buy. And even for software distributed on CD, publishers have started to print the current EULA URL on the package for you to take to the Internet terminal in the store and read.

    For the same reason, there is nothing you gain by agreeing (i.e., there is no "consideration")

    Even failing the above, the consideration for a click-wrap contract is that you're allowed to decrypt the copy that you own. Defenses to the tort of copyright infringement (17 USC 117 etc.) are not defenses to the separate tort of circumvention if I understand Universal v. Reimerdes correctly.

    Second, US copyright law explicitly says that installing software (e.g. copying it onto a hard drive) doesn't count as "making a copy" for the purpose of copyright.

    It's still illegal to make and distribute the tools that allow you to circumvent the restrictions on installing software without clicking through the contract.

  24. Disassembly by tepples · · Score: 1

    The author of SMBDis disagrees with you, as does every warez group that has cracked an app.

  25. The 1983 crash in a nutshell by tepples · · Score: 1

    Essentially what was happening was that a bunch of publishers were putting out a flood of poorly balanced me-too games for Atari 2600, and retailers grew tired of allocating valuable shelf space to games that weren't selling. Distributors tried to reassure retailers by offering money back for returned unsold inventory, but then a bunch of distributors went bankrupt in order not to have to honor this guarantee. For more, see "1983 crash" in Wikipedia or All the Tropes. It took Nintendo and its "Official Nintendo Seal" imprimatur to bring some level of trust back to the North American video game market.

  26. Selection of notable titles by tepples · · Score: 1

    It is in no way in my interests as a consumer to have, say, a region-locked DVD player, or a Blu-ray player that won't let me skip to the contents I want to watch instead of sitting through legal notices that don't even apply in my jurisdiction

    In theory, it benefits you as a consumer in that you'll have more than zero desirable movies for your DVD player. Studios were threatening not to release any movies in the format unless the format includes region locks and UOPs. What good is a DVD player without movies to play on it?

    1. Re:Selection of notable titles by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      And the correct market response to that would have been to call their bluff, and then enjoy the movies from those that survived. The idea that all the studios would have stopped releasing their content anywhere but in theatres is utterly implausible and was never a serious threat.

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    2. Re:Selection of notable titles by HiThere · · Score: 1

      Well, *I* have a DVD player, and I feel a strong need for it, but I have *never* used it to play a movie, and don't intend to. It's my preferred means of backup (though I do wish DVDs were more durable...I don't really trust them for over a year).

      OTOH, I'm beginning to replace DVDs with usb drives. They're much more expensive, but also much more reusable. And they hold more.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    3. Re:Selection of notable titles by sjames · · Score: 1

      This! I find it impossible to believe that the same industry that released movies on VHS (knowing it could be copied) to collect on that long tail would have refused to ever release on DVD. If they had, surely whoever bought their catalog in the fire sale would gave released them.

      Note how when CSS was cracked once and for all, they didn't stop releasing on DVD even after Bluray came out.

    4. Re:Selection of notable titles by tepples · · Score: 1

      the same industry that released movies on VHS (knowing it could be copied)

      VHS tapes could be copied at a substantial degradation of picture quality. This degradation became even more significant once Rovi figured out how to fool VCRs' gain control and color compression circuitry and licensed this "Macrovision" technology to home video distributors.

      they didn't stop releasing on DVD even after Bluray came out.

      The film Ishtar skipped DVD and went straight to Blu-ray.

    5. Re:Selection of notable titles by sjames · · Score: 1

      Actually, with decent VCRs, a 1st generation copy was hard to tell from the original (though a second generation copy was noticeable). Macrovision didn't actually work on a lot of VCRs (I owned several over the years and none of them were bothered by Macrovision). For those that were, you could easily get a 'video stabilizer' to get 'the best viewing quality'.

      BTW, Ishtar was released on DVD everywhere but North America. But if you don't mind defeating the region codes, I see that the Italian version has an English sountrack in Dolby surround (also German, Italian, French, and Spanish).

    6. Re: Selection of notable titles by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Riiiight. Hey, did you see the new terminator reboot trailer? I'm so glad they're rebooting batman as well. And Jurassic park! I can't wait!

      They decided to lock down the means of distribution to their benefit, while also increasing the length of time their copyright law is in effect.

      They don't need to do anything else but sit back and remake various things in their catalogues. They have the perfect monopoly.

  27. ha ha ha by AndyKron · · Score: 1

    ha ha ha ha ha ha Ya, they should, but just mentioning that made me laugh. Like you can get anything good out of congress anymore. Fuck the government!

  28. Hacking implies keeping DMCA around. NO! by Chas · · Score: 1

    The DMCA needs to be thrown out with a bunch of the other fecal detritus that's been inserted in modern US law, to the detriment of everyone.

    --


    Chas - The one, the only.
    THANK GOD!!!
  29. Opportunities for DCMA improvements by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    1) Allow circumvention to permit fair use.
    2) Add consequences for unreasonable take-down requests.

  30. Would have stuck with VHS by tepples · · Score: 1

    And the correct market response to that would have been to call their bluff, and then enjoy the movies from those that survived. The idea that all the studios would have stopped releasing their content anywhere but in theatres is utterly implausible and was never a serious threat.

    The idea is that studios would have ignored DVD and stuck to VHS and its generation loss, Rovi Macrovision analog copy protection, and NTSC/PAL/SECAM/MESECAM region lock until they could launch their own competing format with better DRM. Witness Video CD and SVCD never taking off in North America, and witness the industrywide switch from HD DVD to Blu-ray Disc when the latter offered region locking and stronger DRM (BD+, ROM Mark, and lack of rich menus on non-AACS discs).

    1. Re:Would have stuck with VHS by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 0

      >industrywide switch from HD DVD to Blu-ray Disc

      Do people still use blu-ray media? I thought it got lost in the negative gap between DVD and getting stuff over the internet.
       

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    2. Re:Would have stuck with VHS by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1

      I thought [Blu-ray] got lost in the negative gap between DVD and getting stuff over the internet.

      On the contrary. I still use Blu-ray because after I've bought a disc it is mine, permanently and unambiguously, and with the full force of my country's consumer protection laws behind me if anyone tries to interfere with my use of it.

      I am not vulnerable to an on-line service yanking a series I'm watching from their library when I'm only mid-season. I am not vulnerable to disruption at my ISP interfering with my enjoyment of the film just at the crucial moment. I am not vulnerable to arbitrary price hikes in pay-per-view delivery caused by corporate politics far beyond my level of caring. I just play the disc.

      Technically, they could add unskippable content to that disc that would interfere with my enjoyment. Obviously streaming content can carry ads just as easily, but the reality is that Blu-ray is much better than DVDs typically were on that score anyway. Anything that wasn't would just go straight back to the store as unfit for purpose.

      Technically, they could also play some funny games that might break my Blu-ray player as part of the DRM scheme. Again, compared to some of the things people have tried to do with on-line DRM schemes, that seems a relatively low risk to me. In any case, it would be a brave vendor who sold a disc that actually did that in my country. If it ever damaged a legitimate customer then the vendor would immediately be on the hook both for the consequential losses (new Blu-ray player, anyone?) and potentially for criminal charges as well.

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    3. Re:Would have stuck with VHS by dryeo · · Score: 1

      Some of us are still stuck on dial-up as we live in big sparsely populated countries with shitty broadband providers.

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    4. Re:Would have stuck with VHS by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1

      Right, but if consumers may lawfully crack DRM in order to perform actions that are otherwise legal (under fair use or the equivalent, say) then in practice this is unlikely to be a problem. If it ever is, you just regulate or outright legislate such that anyone selling works in electronic formats for profit with DRM applied must lodge an unrestricted copy in escrow with some official body to ensure that the work can be used as the law otherwise permits once it has been lawfully acquired.

      Ultimately, any creative industry has to sell its work to make any money. The general public as audience, via their respective governments, can impose whatever terms they want to ensure fairness and the creative industries will have to comply. This is no different to any other business that is regulated by consumer protection laws, usually because previously someone was exploiting the situation unfairly.

      There is really no reason to pander to these industries if they abuse the one-sided power structure that exists today. They have nowhere to go. And I write that as someone who makes a decent living creating works of various kinds, because despite the bleatings of the big content distributors, I am evidently still able to make that decent living without imposing nasty DRM schemes on my clients/customers. If I can do it with my little businesses, I'm pretty sure the guys making programmes and films with multi-million dollar budgets can do it too, without making me sit through an FBI warning that is completely irrelevant in my jurisdiction or stopping me watching something over here even though the discs have been available across the pond for a while.

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    5. Re:Would have stuck with VHS by Gr8Apes · · Score: 1

      and witness the industrywide switch from HD DVD to Blu-ray Disc when the latter offered region locking and stronger DRM (BD+, ROM Mark, and lack of rich menus on non-AACS discs).

      Um, none of that had anything to do with it. It was Sony mortgaging itself to the hilt and selling 49% of Sony Pictures to pay Fox to stay BD exclusive and Paramount to be BD exclusive as well as the end cap exclusivity agreements with Target and BlockBuster and others that caused the tipping point. Until Christmas 2007, HD-DVD was still ahead technically: HD-DVD players existed and executed stated features while BD was "wait until the next release" and pulled a Microsoft, always late and under delivering. Also consider that the PS3 was by far the majority of "BD Player" sales. It's estimated that the PS3 cost Sony over $3B in losses by including a nearly free BD player, take it for what it's worth. Had MS included HD-DVD in its XBox for "free" like Sony did with BD...

      In any case, this is all history now, and Sony is still suffering losses, may they continue. (Sony deserves its losses, and BD is by far the weakest reason, although perhaps the biggest contributor) We at least thank HD-DVD for pushing region codes out of the mainstream, BDs still do not enforce region codes like DVDs do.

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    6. Re:Would have stuck with VHS by Gr8Apes · · Score: 1

      I prefer hard media in my hands, for all the reasons you state. Add to that list much higher quality video and audio, and you'll be golden.

      PS - you use a player to watch your media? How 2002... ;)

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      The cesspool just got a check and balance.
    7. Re:Would have stuck with VHS by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1

      Player's (slightly) less buggy and crash-prone than AMD drivers. ;-)

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    8. Re:Would have stuck with VHS by Antique+Geekmeister · · Score: 1

      There is still no legal Linux DVD player in the USA that I've found. The only "legal" ones are in Windows emulation tools.

    9. Re:Would have stuck with VHS by TemporalBeing · · Score: 1

      I thought [Blu-ray] got lost in the negative gap between DVD and getting stuff over the internet.

      On the contrary. I still use Blu-ray because after I've bought a disc it is mine, permanently and unambiguously, and with the full force of my country's consumer protection laws behind me if anyone tries to interfere with my use of it.

      That's why I buy DVD. I don't buy BD-DVDs (aka Blu-Ray DVDs). The movie industry is still having a very hard time with people buying BD-DVDs.

      --
      Truth is like the sun. You can shut it out for a time, but it ain't goin' away. - Elvis Presley (source: imdb.com)
    10. Re:Would have stuck with VHS by TemporalBeing · · Score: 1

      And the correct market response to that would have been to call their bluff, and then enjoy the movies from those that survived. The idea that all the studios would have stopped releasing their content anywhere but in theatres is utterly implausible and was never a serious threat.

      The idea is that studios would have ignored DVD and stuck to VHS and its generation loss, Rovi Macrovision analog copy protection, and NTSC/PAL/SECAM/MESECAM region lock until they could launch their own competing format with better DRM. Witness Video CD and SVCD never taking off in North America, and witness the industrywide switch from HD DVD to Blu-ray Disc when the latter offered region locking and stronger DRM (BD+, ROM Mark, and lack of rich menus on non-AACS discs).

      Yes, HD-DVD did not have region lock where BD-DVD did not. However, that had nothing to do with why BD-DVD won out. IIRC, BD-DVD had a higher amount of data, and simply had a wider deployment since Sony put a BD-DVD player in every Playstation 3, so game makers and more were already pushing BD-DVD for that reason alone. There was no similar push for HD-DVD except the ill-fated Add-on for the XBox that Microsoft did. If Microsoft had made it built-in component, then there probably would have been a bigger battle between the two since the XBox sold nearly as well as the PS3 at the time.

      --
      Truth is like the sun. You can shut it out for a time, but it ain't goin' away. - Elvis Presley (source: imdb.com)
  31. Hack or crack? by PaddyM · · Score: 1

    Without the government nanny state looking over our shoulders, we can crack open an egg and heat it in two seconds in our modified micrOMG it burns!!! Big brother, where art thou?

  32. Fool's paradise by paiute · · Score: 1

    "Least of all should they have to seek permission from the manufacturer or the government."

    Has the author seen the incoming Congress?

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  33. MPAA owns TV news by tepples · · Score: 1

    The general public as audience, via their respective governments, can impose whatever terms they want to ensure fairness

    Not if the creative industries have captured the governments through their co-owned news media.

  34. Re: Already lost the "complete freedom" argument.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Recently repaired the voicemail system at work that runs on an old 486. Every tech they had assumed that the power supply was proprietary because they hadn't seen it before. And they admittedly fired the only guy with enough experience to know the difference. Their suggestion was to buy a new model.

    Instead I looked at the diagram on the inside cover (they obviously didn't) and bought an AT power supply from amazon for 20 bucks.

  35. Re: Already lost the "complete freedom" argument.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That's too much horsepower! It will accelerate too quickly and endanger society! Please report to your officially licensed local dealership to arrange a repair of your vehicle!

    Failure to comply could result in death or legal action.

  36. Re: Already lost the "complete freedom" argument.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Die in a druid fire, you wiccan faggot.