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Attorney Yasir Billoo Explains NDA Law (Video)

Yasir Billoo, an attorney with Golden & Grimes in Miami, Florida, is licensed to practice law in both Florida and California, and works heavily in the areas of business/commercial law, employment and labor, and civil appeals. Yasir also has a business-oriented blog titled Small Business Law.

In this Slashdot video interview hosted by Timothy Lord, Yasir gives what is essentially a primer on the law behind Non-Disclosure Agreements (NDAs) and how they differ from Non-Competes. Sooner or later you're going to encounter -- or even write -- an NDA, and you'd better know the law behind what you're doing. Naturally, today's interview isn't specific legal advice about a particular situation. If you want that, you need to hire a lawyer to advise you. But Yasir (a long-time Slashdot reader. BTW) has shared enough knowledge in this interview that it will help you deal with many NDA situations on your own, and how to tell when you really should have a lawyer by your side.

38 comments

  1. As long as I don't have to sign an NDA by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 4, Funny

    As long as I don't have to sign an NDA to watch the video ... :-)

    --
    "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
  2. How to make Slashdot really angry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    A video interview of Bennett Haselton conducted by Bennett Haselton.

  3. Who was forced to sign an NDA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Interesting

    Me for one. I refused until the "Sign it or Mcdonalds is hiring" speech.

    1. Re:Who was forced to sign an NDA? by NormalVisual · · Score: 4, Informative

      I've walked away from bad agreements, and I'm not shy about crossing stuff out that I don't find acceptable. So far I haven't had anyone refuse to hire me because of that. As Billoo said, you have to be assertive about your own best interests because you're the only one looking out for them.

      --
      Please stand clear of the doors, por favor mantenganse alejado de las puertas
    2. Re:Who was forced to sign an NDA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The thing that upsets me is the NDA wasn't to protect trade secrets, it was to hush up managements wrongdoing, aka ethics. Forcing the top technical workers to sign this pos NDA or threatened to go to work at Mcdonalds was business as usual.

    3. Re:Who was forced to sign an NDA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I sure wish I could read that agreement before I invest time interviewing. At ATTWS, they wanted verbal acceptance before they would disclose the paperwork. Nevermind that I cannot put a value on an offer without having those details. So I didn't.

    4. Re:Who was forced to sign an NDA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I have 6 hours before I forfeit a very nice severance from a failing company that nobody or I care about their tech or hurting them.

      Just because after seven hard years of work and signing a few questionably things this silly thing they want me to sign probably requires a lawyer and it scares me too much for a few paychecks.

    5. Re:Who was forced to sign an NDA? by Threni · · Score: 1

      I was. I mean, I didn't have to sign it but i'd not have got the job otherwise. Doesn't mean you agree with it. Hell, doesn't mean you're going to obey it, but all that comes later.

    6. Re:Who was forced to sign an NDA? by NormalVisual · · Score: 1

      I mean, I didn't have to sign it but i'd not have got the job otherwise. Doesn't mean you agree with it. Hell, doesn't mean you're going to obey it, but all that comes later.

      Then you weren't willing to walk away from it. Signing an agreement you have no intention of keeping can be a recipe for a lot of expense later on.

      --
      Please stand clear of the doors, por favor mantenganse alejado de las puertas
    7. Re:Who was forced to sign an NDA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Exactly. I wouldn't be nearly as successful as I am today if I was afraid to cross out parts of contracts that I didn't like and risk losing the contract alltogether.

      I work as an insurance fraud investigator for two national companies and as a private investigator for a local firm. Each had a non-compete in their contract and I simply crossed it out while telling them that I WOULD be working for their clients. In my area, it's either me, or some kid who doesn't know how to run a camera or run an investigation and I knew I had the upper hand. Now instead of being barred from working for other companies, these companies compete to see who's cases I get to take. Other investigators in my area are starving and I have to plan days off weeks in advance. All because I wasn't afraid to tell them I wouldn't sign their contracts as presented.

      (The way my industry works is that insurers who suspect a claim is fraudulent contact large investigation firms who sub-contract those jobs out to actual investigators. Each company competes to get the cases, so anyone could come to me with any case at any point. Working for a single company would cut the chances of pulling a case when their competition won the bid or simply answered the email first.)

      You can always walk away before you sign. You may not get that chance afterwards.

    8. Re:Who was forced to sign an NDA? by stephanruby · · Score: 1

      Me for one. I refused until the "Sign it or Mcdonalds is hiring" speech.

      Were you interviewing to be a fry cook? Because that's an incredibly insulting thing to say otherwise.

      Nobody insults someone they really want to hire.

    9. Re:Who was forced to sign an NDA? by jbengt · · Score: 2

      I've had plenty of clients requiring an NDA, and had no problem signing them. One employer I had wanted to me sign an updated employment agreement. I didn't mind the NDA portions of it, but there were some unappealing non-compete provisions, like whatever I did for myself on my own times was theirs. I quietly avoided signing it until my manager forgot about it and worked there for another few years.

    10. Re:Who was forced to sign an NDA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I tried to negotiate. Company wanted ownership of everything I did in my off time, I couldn't even file a bug report or a fix for open source software. I tried to negotiate. They fired me on the spot.

      Should have sued the bastards.

    11. Re:Who was forced to sign an NDA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, this NDA was put in front of me AFTER almost 20 years with the company. I was in the top position, management didn't care about loosing anyone but themselves. And the NDA wasn't about protecting tech secrets, but more about hiding unethical business practices. Not signing would've lost me my job and all benefits including retirement, and the same if the NDA was broken. I can't even name the company, but almost everyone has done business with them in one way or another. It wasn't M$.

    12. Re:Who was forced to sign an NDA? by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      Simply write 'I don't agree' on the signature line and hand it back to the HR drone. They never check.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    13. Re:Who was forced to sign an NDA? by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      The bastards saved you a bunch of time. Seriously, any time you spend at such a company is wasted.

      You didn't have a case.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    14. Re:Who was forced to sign an NDA? by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      What kind of retirement plan doesn't have you vested after 20 years?

      I'm calling BS. SJW posting fiction to support his narrative.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    15. Re:Who was forced to sign an NDA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There was a clause in it that retirement could be revoked for breach of contract. This is no BS. I don't know if their BS NDA was legal or not, I'm just glad I finally got away from that job. Even though I don't work there anymore, the NDA is still in effect for employees that leave. They also hide behind an LLC, so the crooks running it won't be liable for their own actions.

    16. Re:Who was forced to sign an NDA? by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      Doesn't match up with your previous story. They were going to fire you and take you retirement...

      Still calling BS.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    17. Re:Who was forced to sign an NDA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do you not understand English? I worked for this company for almost 20 years, then they demanded that I sign the NDA or I would lose my job. Go ahead and call it BS if you want to because I don't give a rats turd what you think. Long story short, NDA's and LLC's screw people.

    18. Re:Who was forced to sign an NDA? by Starport · · Score: 1

      I've been actually refused employment because of contracts. One contract for example, gave the company a perpetual, unrevocable power of attorney over all of my affairs, should they need to exercise it for any reason. Another one, claimed rights to any compensation, should you have an accident, in lieu of one months wage. needless to say, I told them that I would not even consider working for them under such terms, and I walked away.

    19. Re:Who was forced to sign an NDA? by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      You also claim that breach of contract is how they would take your retirement. How is not signing a new NDA a breach?

      You are making things up and got called on it. Just go away and pretend this never happened.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    20. Re:Who was forced to sign an NDA? by Threni · · Score: 1

      It was a job programming games in a company which did Sega Megadrive games. They guarded the docs pretty zealously (ie each page had the company name written, by hand, over it). Couldn't talk about how it worked, what I was doing, how many games Sega had allowed us to publish that year etc etc. (Another job was similar except it was for some IBM tool or other).

      I had no intention to breach the contracts, but at the same time I wasn't going to let the fear of what might happen should I subsequently work for another company who asked me about what I'd done in a previous job worry me because I'm not a lawyer and have no idea if (all of) the NDA was legal/defensible in court (I'm in the UK). The problem was never going to be about signing it, but what happened if I broke it later.

    21. Re: Who was forced to sign an NDA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you have a copy of it you can sue them. It is against US and California laws and you can get good compensation. It is generally "In companies time and/or using companies resources".

    22. Re: Who was forced to sign an NDA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In USA that's illegal. That is called slavery and you can claim millions if you sue them.

    23. Re: Who was forced to sign an NDA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Talk to a lawyer and you will be protected under whistleblower program. NDA or not hiding a scam due to any contract is downright illegal. If they are caught you will also become criminally liable.

  4. Sooner or later you say... by Eunuchswear · · Score: 0

    Sooner or later you're going to encounter -- or even write -- an NDA,

    Fuck off and die.

    --
    Watch this Heartland Institute video
    1. Re:Sooner or later you say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Who are you saying that? That's just the truth, sooner or later you will encounter an NDA. And even if you don't personally see one, there's tons of NDAs that are limiting your life right now.

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  6. Thanks, but please improve future audio by MasterOfGoingFaster · · Score: 1, Informative

    I appreciate the effort, but rule #1 for video is to get the audio right. You can watch a bad video, but bad sound can make an otherwise good video nearly unwatchable. The interviewer's use of an iPhone headset is far from optimum.

    --
    Place nail here >+
    1. Re:Thanks, but please improve future audio by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mod this up

  7. NDA or Assignment of Inventions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The NDAs that I've signed as function of interviewing for a job, e.g., typically only stipulate that I can't disclose anything that I learn about the companies intellectual property over the course of the interviewing process.

    Some of the companies I've been employed by have required me to sign an Assignment of Inventions. Some were fairly broad, asserting that _any_ idea I had, on the clock or off, belonged to the company. Others were less broad.

    And while IANAL, I do remember from the business law courses that I took during my undergrad studies that contracts are not enforceable when there's a great large difference in the bargaining power of the two parties. When you have a potential employer holding a job over your head telling you to sign or else, that's not an agreement between equals. I can't predict how any court is going to rule, but right off the bat I'd be willing to bet that if you were required to sign an overly broad Assignment of Inventions in order to get the job, there's a fair chance that it might not be enforceable. As always, consult an attorney.

  8. Useful Slashdot video? No way... by Red+Herring · · Score: 2

    Wow, a Slashdot video that I actually found useful, interesting, relevant to the site, and not a slashvertisement. A very pleasant surprise, and thanks to Yasir for his time and insight.

    Timothy, though... c'mon, man... pay a few bucks for a backdrop and a reasonable microphone and step up the game a little, rather than looking like a teenager hiding from your parents in your bedroom... even a few bucks for a laptop stand or a cheap video camera so we don't get the camera-is-sitting-on-my-desk-nasal-shot. Some reasonable lighting, etc., is step two. It's not hard.

    --
    #include "standard_disclaimer.h"
  9. Flash? Really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Guys, it's 2014 already. Where's the HTML 5 video?

  10. Assignment of Inventions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    In California (an employee friendly state) there are limitations on assignments. An agreement to assign ALL inventions won't work, and even a "anything in the company's line of business" won't fly if it's a large company with lots of unrelated activities. A "anything related to what we do at this facility" is probably legal. And, bear in mind that if you are an exempt employee (e.g. don't get overtime for more than 40 hrs/week), you are never "off the clock" unless there is a specific agreement to the contrary. If you design widget making machines at your desk, and you come up with a fabulous idea on widget making while standing in the shower at home, it probably belongs to the company. At the very least, even if you are non-exempt and off the clock, the employer may have a "shop-right" to the invention if anything belonging to the company (know-how, etc.) was used in its conception. You'd not need to assign it, but they'd essentially get a free license to practice the invention (which cannot be sold or transferred)

    And many people will have recently had to execute a revised assignment agreement, because of the Supreme Court case about the subtle difference between "assign" and "agree to assign".
    Most courts have held, by the way, that the "consideration" for executing the assignment agreement (which is a contract) can be "your continued employment".

    And, the old practice of paying you a dollar cash for assigning the patent has gone away. The theory behind that one was that patent law required that the consideration for the assignment had to be tangible. Somewhere along the line, the rules (or their interpretation) changed, and the consideration no longer has to be tangible, and can be "what you were paid to come up with the invention in the first place". If you have left the job, and then they come looking for you to sign, you could play hardball (when you're still employed, they can legally say "sign or we'll terminate") but I suspect that if they sued, you'd lose and be compelled to sign.

  11. Re:Flash? Really? by jonwil · · Score: 1

    Given the number of people who read Slashdot using old browsers that dont do HTML5 video (like all those people stuck at work on Intercrap Explorer 6) Flash seems like the better choice here.

  12. Re:Flash? Really? by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

    Division by 0 error at 'Flash seems like the better choice".

    --
    John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
  13. Re:Flash? Really? by coolsnowmen · · Score: 1

    That is not a valid use case to trump adopting new standards. Especially for a tech site. No work place stuck on internet explorer 6 because of intranet applications should be allowing you to use that same browser to access the general world wide web. I've worked for a range of places as a consultant over the last year, and the oldest in use is IE9 (windows 7). I have a friend still stuck on XP and so they have IE8; but that is clearly a massive mistake these days to be using that computer in the net.