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Brought To You By the Letter R: Microsoft Acquiring Revolution Analytics

theodp writes Maybe Bill Gates' Summer Reading this year will include The Art of R Programming. Pushing further into Big Data, Microsoft on Friday announced it's buying Revolution Analytics, the top commercial provider of software and services for the open-source R programming language for statistical computing and predictive analytics. "By leveraging Revolution Analytics technology and services," blogged Microsoft's Joseph Sirosh, "we will empower enterprises, R developers and data scientists to more easily and cost effectively build applications and analytics solutions at scale." Revolution Analytics' David Smith added, "Now, Microsoft might seem like a strange bedfellow for an open-source company [RedHat:Linux as Revolution Analytics:R], but the company continues to make great strides in the open-source arena recently." Now that it has Microsoft's blessing, is it finally time for AP Statistics to switch its computational vehicle to R?

105 comments

  1. Coming soon: Visual R by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Drag and drop integrals.

    1. Re:Coming soon: Visual R by Caesar+Tjalbo · · Score: 2

      R#

      --
      "I'm not much interested in interoperability. I want substitutability. I want to be able to throw your software out."
    2. Re:Coming soon: Visual R by fwr · · Score: 3, Informative

      Visual R is already a product called RStudio.

    3. Re:Coming soon: Visual R by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not for long.

  2. Why oh Why by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Why good things are always acquired by douchebag companies and ruined to the ground? First Java, now this.

    1. Re:Why oh Why by OzPeter · · Score: 3, Funny

      Why good things are always acquired by douchebag companies and ruined to the ground? First Java, now this.

      Shouldn't you also direct your ire at the people from R who decide that selling the company was a good idea. Do you really think that MS went to them and said

      That's a nice company you have there. It'd be a shame if you didn't sell it to us

      --
      I am Slashdot. Are you Slashdot as well?
    2. Re:Why oh Why by kelemvor4 · · Score: 2

      Why good things are always acquired by douchebag companies and ruined to the ground? First Java, now this.

      Shouldn't you also direct your ire at the people from R who decide that selling the company was a good idea. Do you really think that MS went to them and said

      That's a nice company you have there. It'd be a shame if you didn't sell it to us

      It's not unlikely.

    3. Re:Why oh Why by Lunix+Nutcase · · Score: 4, Informative

      Microsoft acquired a company that provides commercial services for R. It does not own the R project. The R Project is a GNU project and there's no way in hell that the FSF would have sold R to Microsoft.

    4. Re:Why oh Why by Lunix+Nutcase · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Considering that this company neither owns the R language or holds any copyright over it it seems highly unlikely.

    5. Re:Why oh Why by bondsbw · · Score: 0

      Oracle != Microsoft

      It's pretty obvious why Microsoft has been within the top few spots of the computing industry for so long. Beats the hell out of me how Oracle is still around.

      --
      All my liberal friends think I'm a conservative, all my conservative friends think I'm a liberal.
    6. Re:Why oh Why by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How would they force the sale then?

    7. Re:Why oh Why by dreamchaser · · Score: 1

      It is GPL so they really couldn't sell it to anyone anyways. They could I suppose but it would be meaningless and a foolish move on anyone who would shell out the money for it.

    8. Re: Why oh Why by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Java was never good. Unless youre talking about the one in indonesia. Or the one in my mug every morning.

    9. Re:Why oh Why by Lunix+Nutcase · · Score: 2

      It is GPL so they really couldn't sell it to anyone anyways.

      That's false. Assuming you are the sole copyright holder to all said code you can do with it as you please. See MySQL.

    10. Re:Why oh Why by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is GPL so they really couldn't sell it to anyone anyways.

      So then please explain how MySQL AB was able to sell their GPLed database to Sun.

      They could I suppose but it would be meaningless and a foolish move on anyone who would shell out the money for it.

      Sure it would be dumb to pay for source code. On the other hand, owning the copyright and trademarks to a project can be worth it. As the copyright holder you can relicense, dual license, etc. and sell commercial licenses to the product.

    11. Re:Why oh Why by Iconoclysm · · Score: 1

      Please, elaborate...how are Microsoft any more douchebags than the company they just bought, how is R so good, and how many products that are actually good have you seen ruined by companies like Microsoft? Considering most of Microsoft's most successful products were purchases like this one...

    12. Re:Why oh Why by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

      and how many products that are actually good have you seen ruined by companies like Microsoft?

      Either ruined or forced into stasis which eventually ruined them. Wolfpack fit in the first category, Visio the second...

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    13. Re: Why oh Why by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You need historical perspectives. OOP was hot. C++ was not easy. Java was a step forward for OOP.

    14. Re:Why oh Why by jonnyj · · Score: 3, Informative

      Why good things are always acquired by douchebag companies and ruined to the ground? First Java, now this.

      First, I'd repeat the observation made by many that Revolution Analystics doesn't own R; it simply provides commercial support.

      As an R user in business, this seems like good news. Microsoft has been promoting R for some time as an analytic layer to sit over its databases, but people in business are a conservative bunch. I've spoken to many associates in other businesses, and the main reasons that they prefer to continue with SAS is that support, training and consultancy are far more readily available for SAS than R. 'Supported by Microsoft' is a label that may persuade some to shift, especially if it's supported by a genuine expansion of commercial R support.

    15. Re: Why oh Why by tom229 · · Score: 2

      At least it wasn't Apple or Facebook. Take your victories where you can.

      --
      If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
    16. Re:Why oh Why by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is another hint that MS wants to focus its money making in the enterprise sector.

    17. Re:Why oh Why by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      That's false. Assuming you are the sole copyright holder to all said code you can do with it as you please. See MySQL.

      They can sell it, but they can't sell it out from under you. Besides the obvious downside of having to build support all over again, the only down side to forking is not being able to change the license in the future — which is an up side for the user base.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    18. Re: Why oh Why by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Easy != good

    19. Re:Why oh Why by jbolden · · Score: 1

      Just to add, Microsoft cooperates with lots of projects like this. They are comfortable with this model.

      However, Revolution Analytics has lots of the stuff that makes large computations viable like multithreaded / big data parallel R. And that wasn't GNU.

    20. Re:Why oh Why by jbolden · · Score: 1

      Oracle invented the commercially viable relational database. That's not a small innovation.
      Oracle has consistently pushed the database world with new technologies that really did make a difference on computation speeds.

      Lately Oracle has been one of the few vendors to have a a broad range of large enterprise software designed to work together.

    21. Re:Why oh Why by Lunix+Nutcase · · Score: 1

      They can sell it, but they can't sell it out from under you.

      Who can't sell what out from under me? Sole copyright owners can sell their code at any time out from under anyone. It's their legal right.

    22. Re:Why oh Why by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      but those libraries are in violation of the gpl. they fail the modularity plugin test.

      that they exist makes it less likely R developers will implement parallel support in trunk using another approach. which sucks and means the 3rd party company effectively controlls the direction that part of the development will take.

    23. Re:Why oh Why by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Given than 'parallel' is in the packages included in the vanilla R distribution and maintained by the R-core team I don't think know what you are talking about...

    24. Re:Why oh Why by bungo · · Score: 1

      Hey, in case it makes you feel any better, Oracle has also incorporated R inside it's database.

      So, Oracle is involved with both Java and R.

      Maybe both companies can start fighting and introduce incompatible versions! Just like the old days.

      --
      "The best part? I became an ordained minister while not wearing pants." -- CleverNickName
    25. Re: Why oh Why by bondsbw · · Score: 1

      That's nice.

      Isn't Oracle's table/column names still limited to 30 characters? I would think a modern, enterprise-worthy database could handle a bit more.

      --
      All my liberal friends think I'm a conservative, all my conservative friends think I'm a liberal.
    26. Re: Why oh Why by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You remember Heartbleed?

    27. Re: Why oh Why by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

      So they're buying a GPL test case in order to try to invalidate it with their army of lawyers and lobbyists to scuttle the Android alliance so they can FUD their way in with WinPhone 10, all while looking like an OLAP services enhancement?

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    28. Re:Why oh Why by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      They can sell it, but they can't sell it out from under you.

      Who can't sell what out from under me? Sole copyright owners can sell their code at any time out from under anyone. It's their legal right.

      You cannot change the license after the fact.

      You can take your GPL project closed, but anyone who obtained your code under GPL license prior to that can continue to use, modify, and redistribute that code under terms of said license.

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    29. Re: Why oh Why by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      That's nice.

      Isn't Oracle's table/column names still limited to 30 characters? I would think a modern, enterprise-worthy database could handle a bit more.

      Even MySQL supports 64-character identifiers for databases and tables.

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    30. Re:Why oh Why by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That only makes sense since their traditional desktop market is no longer the consumer end-all and be-all it was was, and they're getting their butt handed back to them in the mobile space.

    31. Re: Why oh Why by jbolden · · Score: 1

      That's not Oracle that's ANSI/ISO SQL Standard. Complain to them. Though 30 characters seems pretty long to me.

    32. Re:Why oh Why by jbolden · · Score: 1

      The R core team indicated that in their opinion any module code was just data for the GPL-R engine. Also those modules in theory could work with S. So given that Revolution publishes their changes to base R, I think it is a stretch to say they are a GPL violation.

    33. Re: Why oh Why by jbolden · · Score: 1

      No they aren't. The AC was wrong. It is a lousy GPL test case since the people with standing to sue Revolution have multiple times already said they don't think what they are doing is a violation of the GPL.

    34. Re: Why oh Why by bondsbw · · Score: 1

      That's not Oracle that's ANSI/ISO SQL Standard. Complain to them.

      From what I can find, the standard length is 18. That appears to be a minimum, not a maximum.

      Regardless, everyone else that matters supports more. Why not Oracle?

      30 characters seems pretty long to me.

      [Insert obligatory 640K quote here]

      It's plenty if you have standards to abbreviate everything and remove all vowels. Of course, when your NMNG_CNVNTN_RQRS_UNDRSCR_CHRCTRS

      oops too long

      --
      All my liberal friends think I'm a conservative, all my conservative friends think I'm a liberal.
    35. Re: Why oh Why by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You remember how Heartbleed was a bug in a C library and not a C++ library?

    36. Re: Why oh Why by jbolden · · Score: 2

      I'm seeing the same 30 characters for Teradata and Sybase. When I look at the 2008 SQL standard (last version I own) I get totally lost in the notation and I'm just not that motivated, I'm going to take their word for it. As for everyone else that matters I'd say those two matter.

      As for it being big enough. Table names can have synonyms and be accessed functionally via. PLSQL. Oracle itself tends to use table names like X12A with another table that uses a descriptor. If you want documentation Oracle provides a means for documentation.

      In any case This issue certainly isn't a huge constraint with Oracle. My point is that they are tremendous innovators whether one particular limitation annoys you doesn't change that.

    37. Re:Why oh Why by gumbi+west · · Score: 2

      This is about R. That would be difficult to do with a list of contributors this long not impossible, well, yeah, probably impossible.
      http://www.r-project.org/contr...

    38. Re:Why oh Why by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      There's one other aspect to it that is obvious when you see who the people on MS side talking about this are. It is, effectively, an acquisition by the Azure ML division - the sole purpose of which is to get the "big data" people to come to Azure and pay for burning CPU cycles.

    39. Re: Why oh Why by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Technically, even early adopters and proponents (like myself) thought it sucked badly and was created by a bunch of idiots. Even something as ancient as Smalltalk-80 and Objective-C were better OOP languages. The reason people like me supported Java was because there was enough hype surrounding it that it might dislodge Microsoft's dominance.

      The hope was that the most glaring problems of Java could be fixed as part of the standardization process Sun promised to submit Java to. But Sun reneged on their commitments, standardization never happened, and Java has remained a piece of shit to this day.

    40. Re:Why oh Why by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Either ruined or forced into stasis which eventually ruined them. Wolfpack fit in the first category, Visio the second...

      And nothing of value was lost. Neither will there be with "R".

    41. Re: Why oh Why by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "At the present time we're not suing" is hardly a strong endorsement and immaterial to the legal question of if a violation exists or not.

    42. Re: Why oh Why by jbolden · · Score: 1

      That's not what they said. What they said was that they considered modules to be data not code and thus not covered by the GPLed i.e. no linking occurred. An explicit statement from the copyright holder that action X is not a copyright violation is a very strong endorsement. Better yet of course would be an explicit written and signed license permitting it, but the statements could and would be considered by the court in a lawsuit.

    43. Re: Why oh Why by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      "The people from R?"

      R is, and remains, open source. This is a company that sells R support and bolt-on applications based on R.

      Nothing has happened to the R language.

    44. Re: Why oh Why by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Most of their profits come from various organizations (govt, corporations) for quite some time now...

  3. buy the competition by gtall · · Score: 0

    This is just another E^3 move.

    1. Re:buy the competition by Lunix+Nutcase · · Score: 3, Insightful

      They haven't bought R. R is a GNU Project and still is even after this acquisition of a third party company.

    2. Re:buy the competition by c · · Score: 2

      It's ancient history, but when Microsoft put some money into perl-on-Windows development, there were a lot of ruffled feathers and panicky headlines.

      It didn't amount to anything even close to "taking over perl", even during the nastier stretch of Microsoft's "embrace and extend" era, but asking people to remember things that happened so long ago is obviously too much.

      --
      Log in or piss off.
    3. Re:buy the competition by Lunix+Nutcase · · Score: 1

      And this won't amount to anything either. The company they acquired neither controls the R Project nor holds any copyrights to it.

    4. Re:buy the competition by fwr · · Score: 1

      Where is Perl in the relative rankings of programming language usage today? I'm not suggesting any correlation, let alone causation, but it is interesting to ponder the question.

    5. Re:buy the competition by c · · Score: 1

      In all honesty, I don't know where it is exactly, but I'm confident that it's where it would've been anyway had Microsoft done absolutely nothing. I'll blame any usage drop solidly on the rise of PHP, Python and maybe Ruby.

      --
      Log in or piss off.
  4. Re:R wont run on linux soon by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Not true. Revolution's version of R is forked from the original version of R, which is and will remain free software (both libre, and gratis).

  5. Re:R wont run on linux soon by Lunix+Nutcase · · Score: 2, Insightful

    You hear it here first, R the open source programming language wont run on linux as from the next revision.

    Why would the GNU Project stop developing R for Linux because Microsoft bought up some other company that in no way controls or holds copyright to the R source code? In what universe does that make sense?

    A bit like skype, linux version doesnt really work much ever since that shit company bought that as well.

    It's actually the opposite. The Linux client was much shittier before it was bought by Microsoft. It languished far behind other OSes with respect to bug fixes and new features.

  6. What programming language do pirates use? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    R [Filter error: You can type more than that for your comment.]

    1. Re: What programming language do pirates use? by hoelk · · Score: 2

      Arrrrr it's the c

  7. Joseph Sirosh is full of shit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    By leveraging .... (blah blah blah) .... we will empower ......

    Using this kind of language informs the intelligent listener that you are an ASSHOLE.

  8. Not the first time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    some large company bought something good and then it went to shit. This particular company has a particularly bad rap sheet, and no, I don't have to look at linux for examples. I will say that they're not the only ones, and that red hat is actively remaking linux in windows' image, and thereby making it go shittier than it already was. In that respect, sheer size begets evil deeds for some reason. Not even google escaped that.

    1. Re:Not the first time by plopez · · Score: 2

      "In that respect, sheer size begets evil deeds for some reason."

      I have a corporation and so before creating it I studied some aspects of the corporate structure before creating it. That and observation has brought me to the conclusion that there are two factors, at least in the US, which turn corporations into sociopaths:
      1) The only real mandate they have is to funnel money to the stockholders, and in this day in age the most powerful stock holders are the CEOs and BODs
      2) Avoidance of responsibility is enshrined in the corporate charter model law. Showing that the CEO and BOD are responsible for corporate dysfunction, which often leads to people dying, is nigh on impossible. Esp. when corporate assets can be used to defend the CEO and BOD.

      Until that is fixed corporate evil is almost a given.

      --
      putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
    2. Re:Not the first time by Lunix+Nutcase · · Score: 4, Informative

      Microsoft acquired a company who develops a forked version of R. R itself is a GNU project and is not owned or controlled by either Microsoft or the company they bought. You're hyperventilating over nothing.

    3. Re:Not the first time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      On the contrary, now the forked version of R has more resources than the open source version. Time to freak out.

    4. Re:Not the first time by Monkey-Man2000 · · Score: 1

      Step 1: Embrace Step 2: Extend. Step 3: Extinguish. Step 4: Profit! I think this brings us between 2 and 3, which is not the greatest news for open source R.

      --
      This post was generated by a Cadre of Uber Monkeys for Monkey-Man2000 (603495).
    5. Re:Not the first time by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      The forked version is still GPL.

    6. Re:Not the first time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      but they aren't respecting it fully, which suprises me as to how this got past MS's lawyers.

    7. Re:Not the first time by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      Have you considered that, if it did get past the lawyers, then they are respecting it to the extent the law requires them to?

    8. Re:Not the first time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In that respect, sheer size begets evil deeds for some reason. Not even google escaped that.

      No corporation should be larger than a small or medium town, say perhaps 10k or 20k people. We might assert this as a consequence of a universal and inalienable human right, the right to ethical government, since large corporations have too much power to buy government. Even huge "campaign contributions" (aka bribes) will be a tiny part of the budget of a large corporation.

      Similarly, the ready access to funds gives large corporations the ability to buy lawyers (a group that has a long history of looking out for the interests of the profession at the expense of the public) gives the large corporations the ability to shape the legal system to their benefit. It's never just about buying the government.

      It follows that current corporate law in the USA (and perhaps other places), by not placing limits on corporate size, is illegal. Those legal professionals working for these organizations in such a way as to assist these organizations to continue to be oversized, are in violation of their oaths to uphold the Bill of Rights and engaging in unethical practice of law. The clear willingness of the lawyers, as a group, to be bought does not reflect well on the profession (a tiny minority clearly has integrity, but no influence).

      Power corrupts most people. It's human nature. Those who are resistant almost never end up in executive positions. Inevitably, sooner or later, the vast majority of executives of large corporations get out of touch with the workers and with the communities in which they operate. They start playing power games, and become more and more used to gaming the system and telling lies. They sacrifice their souls one bit at a time to advance their careers. They end up becoming sociopaths, even if they were mentally healthy to begin with. They turn the legal system into a tool for abusing society for personal gain, instead of being a tool for protecting society.

      From an economic perspective, there is no need to have corporations be oversized. The gain in economies of scale is offset by the losses caused by excessive bureaucracy and bad decisions by out of touch executives. Further, if lots of smaller corporations are forced to purchase things like human resources and IT from external providers (because of size limits), that helps to drive the costs of these services down (by creating a flourishing competitive market) and everybody benefits.

      Society also takes a huge economic loss from the corruption of the legal system. Having inadequate law to support business is bad, but having too much law (or too complex law) is also bad.

  9. Lack of social ability at Microsoft by Futurepower(R) · · Score: 0

    A huge problem at Microsoft seems to me to be that people there, or maybe just the leaders, seem socially unsophisticated. In fact, neither of the articles quoted below explains the underlying reason that Microsoft is buying Revolution Analytics. That needs to be explained. (All quotes retrieved Sunday, January 25, 2015, around 07:00 PST.)

    In The Official Microsoft Blog there is a lot of corporate-speak, of the kind used by people with no actual interest in a subject who nevertheless want to be considered knowledgeable:
    "find ... value"
    "data-driven decisions"
    "reduce the ... skills gap"
    "enterprise-class platform"
    "analytic solutions"
    "advanced analytics within ... platforms on-premises"
    "we are at the threshold"

    From another article linked from that article, Revolution Analytics joins Microsoft, by "David Smith, Chief Community Officer":

    "Microsoft might seem like a strange bedfellow for an open-source company..."

    It was not a good idea to use the word "bedfellow". That word is more appropriate for a novel. The primary meaning of "bedfellow" is "a person who shares a bed with another".

    'CEO Satya Nadella proclaimed "Microsoft loves Linux" '

    On the surface, that makes no sense. Below the surface, is Microsoft trying to say, "We want Microsoft to be popular"?

    "We're excited the work..."

    That should have been "We're excited [that] the work...".

    I'm not the only person who feels uncomfortable with those statements. One of the comments to that story is this one:

    "What a joke. You're really working hard to try and convince readers that this is a good match, going on and on about how supportive Microsoft is of open-source. You were probably sweating while trying to come up with excuses as to why this is good, knowing that you were typing bullshit. I would suggest growing a pair of balls and just being honest, but I'm sure you've never had to do that in your career. -- Posted by: Anonymous | January 23, 2015 at 11:22"

    David Smith replied to that comment: "Anonymous, I've never been anything but frank on this blog and this is no exception. I'm truly excited for the future, and I'm sure I speak for the rest of the team as well. -- Posted by: David Smith | January 23, 2015 at 11:25"

    Sometimes the lack of social ability at Microsoft is shocking. The cover of the January 16, 2013 issue of BusinessWeek magazine has a large photo of Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer with the headline calling him "Monkey Boy". See the BusinessWeek cover in this article: Steve Ballmer Is No Longer A Monkey Boy, Says Bloomberg BusinessWeek. The BusinessWeek cover says "No More" and "Mr.", but that doesn't take much away from the fact that the magazine called him Monkey Boy -- on its cover.

    In many years of following such things I have never seen such disrespect of a CEO. Of course, whoever wrote the cover headline was merely repeating a common phrase applied to Steve Ballmer by people in the computer industry.

    Worst CEO: Quote from an article in Forbes Magazine about Steve Ballmer: "Without a doubt, Mr. Ballmer is the worst CEO of a large publicly traded American company today."

    Another quote: "The reach of his bad leadership has extended far beyond

    1. Re:Lack of social ability at Microsoft by Shados · · Score: 2

      Microsoft is large. Very F**** large. Their development tool division, while it has had some hiccups over the years, overall has been pretty good, devs liked them and they were always pushing to embrace open source. The rest of the company, not so much.

      So things like this look weird depending on where you're looking from. If you look at Microsoft the company that makes Windows and Office, this is awkward, they're trying too hard, etc.

      If you look at it from Microsoft the company that makes C#, has been pushing a bunch of open source stuff for a pretty long time now, has Microsoft Research, etc, its really not that special and pretty much expected of them at this point, even if it wasn't true 15 years ago.

      They're trying to take the "cool" division and make it do things that affect Microsoft's reputation as a whole. That will be long and hard.

    2. Re:Lack of social ability at Microsoft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If SN loves linux they should provide native support for EXT4 in Windows.

    3. Re:Lack of social ability at Microsoft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In fact, neither of the articles quoted below explains the underlying reason that Microsoft is buying Revolution Analytics.

      Why do you think? So MS software can more efficiently spy on you. For better targeted ads of course.

    4. Re:Lack of social ability at Microsoft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If SN loves linux they should provide native support for EXT4 in Windows.

      On behalf of all us married male Slashdotters--Please don't.

      None of us want the wife to be able to plug that USB drive that "doesn't work right now, but I'll get around to buying it a new phlogiston adaptor for it, that's why I've not tossed it" into her Windows laptop and see the porn collection.

      Thanks!

    5. Re:Lack of social ability at Microsoft by fwr · · Score: 1

      Sigh. One word. Cloud. Or, to tie it a little closer to Microsoft's home, Azure. This is a Big Data play people. Big Data requires Big Compute, and Big Storage. This is likely because Microsoft wants to make R work better on its cloud offering than any other vendors. We will have to see if that means locking other cloud vendors out or not, but I'm hoping that with the new direction (open sourcing .NET anyone?) they will not try that tactic again. Only time will tell. I'm not suggesting that we let our guard down, but at the same time let's not jump to conclusions.

    6. Re:Lack of social ability at Microsoft by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      One thing of note is that this particular acquisition is not DevDiv, it's Azure ML. But Azure ML is, in some ways, even more F/OSS friendly - at least I don't know anyone else in MS running Linux servers in production for user-facing services, and it's where a lot of ex-MSR guys (like, from those labs that were closed) ended up. It's also where all the Python stuff now is.

      Then again, after Satya's takeover, there was a strong push from top down to stop treating open source in general and Linux in particular as pariah, in all divisions. In no uncertain language, like "we've been acting stupid about this for a while now and let competitors eat our lunch; time to catch up while we still can". The recent slew of announcements, from .NET Core officially supported on Linux, to most open MS projects migrating to GitHub, is the outcome.

      FWIW, I didn't think I'd ever hear a Microsoft lawyer utter the words "GPL is actually kinda cool" while explaining to developers the company's new open source policy in his official capacity. Yet, here we are.

      Long and hard? Yes. But this kind of thing makes it worth it (and also shows that, perhaps, it's not quite all that long if you go fast enough).

  10. Who cares? R is a lousy language, anyway by stevebyan · · Score: 2

    "is it finally time for AP Statistics to switch its computational vehicle to R?"

    No. Absolutely not. R is not a reasonable language for computing: http://r.cs.purdue.edu/pub/eco...

    1. Re:Who cares? R is a lousy language, anyway by Johnny+Loves+Linux · · Score: 4, Informative

      I think that's being too harsh. As the paper described in its conclusions of the 3 groups who make use of R, the largest and primary group is the users, people who don't do programming in R, but rather make use of it for generating and displaying statistics in an interactive environment. R is a much better language to work I think if one has to access to RStudio, the gui frontend to R.

      Is R a good general purpose programming language in the sense of other programming languages such as C/C++, python, perl, shell scripting, etc.? No, I think it's clear it's not a good general purpose language, but for what it focuses on, namely make it easy to do statistical computations it's hard to beat the language.

      For statistical analysis the only competitor I see for it is a mixture of ipython notebook + python statistical modules such as pandas, numpy, scipy, pymc, sklearn,statsmodel, pystan, etc.

    2. Re:Who cares? R is a lousy language, anyway by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Agreed, it's a very old language and as such doesn't include many of the modern idioms we expect in a language. It's the fortran of scripting languages.

    3. Re: Who cares? R is a lousy language, anyway by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Quite obvioulsy you don't know what you are talking about. R has everything a modern statistics language needs, thank you very much.

    4. Re:Who cares? R is a lousy language, anyway by DaBombDotCom · · Score: 3, Informative

      You have no idea what you're taking about. There is absolutely no better language for doing advanced statistical analysis. Python is the only thing that is close and it is lightyears behind in terms of contributed packages that provide statistical functions.

    5. Re:Who cares? R is a lousy language, anyway by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree R is great for stats but it sucks if you have to do a lot of pre-processing before you get to the stats. Personally, I pre-process elsewhere and only ever use R once I have a CSV file upon which I can directly conduct an analysis.

    6. Re:Who cares? R is a lousy language, anyway by twistedcubic · · Score: 1

      You might find Apophenia ( http://apophenia.info/ ) useful. A simple exam is here: http://apophenia.info/eg.html

    7. Re:Who cares? R is a lousy language, anyway by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      And Python and R can work together (rpy2), with Python being the glue.

    8. Re:Who cares? R is a lousy language, anyway by silfen · · Score: 1

      For statistical analysis the only competitor I see for it is a mixture of ipython notebook + python statistical modules such as pandas, numpy, scipy, pymc, sklearn,statsmodel, pystan, etc.

      Yes, and that combo is head and shoulders above R.

    9. Re:Who cares? R is a lousy language, anyway by silfen · · Score: 1

      R does have lots of statistical packages available, some of which are not available for Python. But those are often for obsolete statistical methods. When it comes to modern statistics, i.e. large scale Bayesian methods, non-parametric methods, simulations, neural networks, etc., then R is quite deficient in good packages relative to Python. In part, the reason why R is deficient in such packages is because the R language itself is actually pretty poor.

    10. Re:Who cares? R is a lousy language, anyway by DaBombDotCom · · Score: 1

      WOW. The ignorance in this thread is overwhelming

    11. Re:Who cares? R is a lousy language, anyway by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, I have used S since the 80's, and R and Python since the 90's. Since your response is devoid of any actual content statements, it's unclear which category of R proponents you fall into. Most likely, you either think that R's packages for machine learning and related fields are good (they are not; they can't be because the R language simply doesn't support it), or you think that one shouldn't call the massive amount of crap academic statisticians produce "obsolete". Either way, yes, you're ignorant.

    12. Re:Who cares? R is a lousy language, anyway by stevebyan · · Score: 1

      I think that's being too harsh. As the paper described in its conclusions of the 3 groups who make use of R, the largest and primary group is the users, people who don't do programming in R, but rather make use of it for generating and displaying statistics in an interactive environment.

      In other words, it's a good programming language if you don't do any programming, but just feed parameters to analysis and plotting packages. So no, it would not be a good "computational vehicle" for AP Statistics. That is, not if the students are actually learning anything in AP Statistics.

  11. Re:R wont run on linux soon by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

    Not possible, systemd already has the interpreter built in.

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  12. Re:R wont run on linux soon by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

    The bit about Skype is also not quite true. MS have done horrid/idiotic things with the UI, especially in the mobile versions, but I use the Linux desktop version almost daily and it works just fine for its intended purpose.

    --
    Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
  13. Re:R wont run on linux soon by robi5 · · Score: 1

    Except that, for example,
    - video skype and desktop sharing is not available on Linux with more than two participants
    - the Linux GUI is a confused mess

  14. Re:R wont run on linux soon by gumbi+west · · Score: 1

    What makes you think GNU has anything to do with R (other than writing its license)?

  15. Re:R wont run on linux soon by Stewie241 · · Score: 1

    There are numerous sources to support that. Two that probably hold some weight are:
    http://www.gnu.org/manual/blur... and http://www.gnu.org/software/so..., both of which list R as a GNU package.

  16. obsolete by silfen · · Score: 1

    R was a great tool relative to other statistical computing tools until maybe a decade ago. It's still better than Matlab, but that's not saying much. There are better options these days, like for example SciPy with Pandas.

  17. Re:R wont run on linux soon by silfen · · Score: 1

    That only means that the FSF has chosen the package for the mythical "GNU operating system". It's no different from Debian or RedHat making an "R" package. Well, it is different in that the original "GNU operating system" remained eternal vaporware and "the GNU operating system" now consists of a haphazard mix of relabeled and restricted Linux distributions created by others.

    Unfortunately, the FSF has a nasty habit of implying that they deserve credit for software whose creation they had nothing to do with. Other GNU packages were created by forking projects with more permissive licenses and slapping a GNU license on it.

    The FSF early on contributed some useful software, and the GNU project set out to create an OS. I also think the GPL is a useful license (but not the only useful free or open source software license). But the FSF and GNU were made largely obsolete by open source software, and as far as I can tell, they haven't done much actual work recently (but feel free to correct me if I'm wrong).

  18. Re:R wont run on linux soon by Stewie241 · · Score: 1

    http://www.r-project.org/ also states that "R is a language and environment for statistical computing and graphics. It is a GNU project which is similar to the S language and environment which was developed at Bell Laboratories (formerly AT&T, now Lucent Technologies) by John Chambers and colleagues." So obviously the GNU project itself doesn't do a lot of actual development, though I would expect that they provide some administrative support in some form (perhaps in similar manner that the FSF does for many open source projects).

  19. Re:R wont run on linux soon by silfen · · Score: 1

    though I would expect that they provide some administrative support in some form (perhaps in similar manner that the FSF does for many open source projects

    What "administrative support" do you think the FSF provides for "many open source projects"? All they ever seem to want to do is for you to transfer your copyright to them based on bogus justifications.

    As far as the R Project is concerned, I don't see them listed as benefactors or supporting institution:

    http://www.r-project.org/found...

    Furthermore, the R copyright hasn't even been transferred to the FSF, it's held by the R Foundation.

    I think this confusion over R illustrates again how the FSF likes to misrepresent its contributions and significance.

    Being associated with GNU and the FSF used to be a positive thing; these days, I think it's a net negative for any project.

  20. douchebags by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Instead of buying R, they could have downloaded it for free...

  21. If Microsoft buys a company selling R services by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If Microsoft buys a company selling R services, and perhaps a fork of R... are they going to start putting their own Microsoft branding on it?

    Would it be called RMS?

  22. socialn.co by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ariastis writes Google took almost three years to disclose to the open information group WikiLeaks that it had handed over emails and other digital data belonging to three of its staffers to the FBI under a secret search warrant issued by a federal judge. WikiLeaks were told last month of warrants which were served in March 2012. The subjects of the warrants were the investigations editor of WikiLeaks, the British citizen Sarah Harrison; the spokesperson for the organisation, Kristinn Hrafnsson; and Joseph Farrell, one of its senior editors. When it notified the WikiLeaks employees last month, Google said it had been unable to say anything about the warrants earlier as a gag order had been imposed.
    http://socialn.co/vb/

  23. Re:R wont run on linux soon by gumbi+west · · Score: 1

    That's pretty good evidence that there is some relationship, you are right.

    However, R is developed by a team out of the University of Wisconsin Statistics Department, lead by Doug Bates. I believe that the team at UW, not GNU, makes decisions about the direction for R's future development.

    Nevertheless, your original point stands and I agree with you that I don't see that team moving from linux any time soon.

  24. Here's Why by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Revolution Analytics among other things, is the creator and maintainer of a powerful package called R Studio Enterprise, which contains R language bindings to the major distributed processing packages -- Hadoop on Cloudera, Hortonworks and MapR, as well as Teradata and other platforms. In other words, it allows data scientists to leverage cluster computing networks to solve statistical analysis problems that are too big to fit in the memory of a single computer. This is what makes RA commercially valuable. It competes directly against SAS in the commercial world, and has made significant inroads as of late.

  25. SSAS/SSRS by DriveDog · · Score: 1

    Given the difficulty and/or unwillingness by MS of bringing SSAS and SSRS capabilities up to a meaningful level, this might be their idea of easing the integration of R with those things. I'd still prefer not to use them, but at least if forced to do so, having a little bit of interoperability with R would make it feasible to create some useful stuff.