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Alan Turing's Notes Found After Being Used As Insulation At Bletchley Park

An anonymous reader writes: In 2013, a restoration project for Hut 6 of Bletchley Park uncovered a collection of papers being used as roof insulation. The papers were frozen to preserve them while they were inspected and repaired. Now they're on display at an exhibition showing items found during the restoration process. "The documents also included the only known examples of Banbury sheets, a technique devised by [Turing] to accelerate the process of decrypting Nazi messages. No other examples have ever been found. All the findings are unique as all documentary evidence from the codebreaking process was supposed to be destroyed under wartime security rules."

121 comments

  1. Turing suffers yet another indignity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    First they persecute him for being gay, then they assassinate him, and finally they use his notes as insulation.

    Those British pommy bastards are pure evil, and they deserve to have their rotten Empire collapse around their ears.

    1. Re:Turing suffers yet another indignity by Captain+Splendid · · Score: 1

      Hapened about 50 years ago, do keep up old chap.

      --
      Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
    2. Re:Turing suffers yet another indignity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What's that whooshing sound, mate?

    3. Re:Turing suffers yet another indignity by Renegade88 · · Score: 0

      Can you claim "woosh" if it wasn't funny?

    4. Re:Turing suffers yet another indignity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Let's see, pommy bastards persecuted a gay genius over 60 years ago, justice would be served if their fucking empire collapsed for their crime against humanity, and the funny thing is that it did. Too subtle for you, dumb ass?

    5. Re:Turing suffers yet another indignity by 91degrees · · Score: 1

      I thought it was funny.

    6. Re:Turing suffers yet another indignity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Jokes aren't funny unless they're (1) direct quotes, (2) from science fiction, and (3) designated as humorous.

      "The clown can stay...but the Ferengi in the gorilla suit has to go."

      See? Now that's +5 Funny.

    7. Re:Turing suffers yet another indignity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, "the empire" which you peasants have never had (or any history at that) was breaking up long before Turing. It was inevitable and unlike the Roman empire, we still held on to plenty of land and goodwill. Jog on and find an actual funny joke.

    8. Re:Turing suffers yet another indignity by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      Did what? Collapse? You're joking, right?

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
  2. Yes but are the notes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Yes but are the notes Turing Complete?

    1. Re:Yes but are the notes by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      can't tell, they're written in perl

    2. Re:Yes but are the notes by rvw · · Score: 4, Funny

      can't tell, they're written in perl

      Wait - they were written in Perl?

    3. Re: Yes but are the notes by Arterion · · Score: 1

      His genius was so great that not only did he crack the enigma code, but he could even read his own Perl -- and the language hadn't even been invented yet!

      --
      "That which does not kill us makes us stranger." -Trevor Goodchild
  3. So does this mean... by Otome · · Score: 2

    We get The Imitation Game 2?

  4. Roof insulation? Could have been much worse by pipedwho · · Score: 2

    Imagine being the guy that had to sift through the freshly dug up latrine behind Hut 6. Just to make sure nothing important was used during someone's morning constitutional.

    1. Re:Roof insulation? Could have been much worse by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just to make sure nothing important was used during someone's morning constitutional.

      Just ot be clear here: you're implying that you like to wipe your ass on random notebook papers that you find lying around in an attic as you go for your morning walk to someplace other than the shitter, right? ;)

    2. Re:Roof insulation? Could have been much worse by sound+vision · · Score: 1

      Not too far off from using random notebook papers (that were deemed highly sensitive and subject to destruction) as building insulation.

    3. Re:Roof insulation? Could have been much worse by nukenerd · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Just to be clear, people in military establishments like Bletchley Park did wipe their arses on discarded papers, and such places often used earth closets for the people working in the huts. Only the big-wigs in the main house would have been able to use its WCs. Even confidential papers were used, because it was assumed that no-one would have the stomach to read them afterwards.

      That is the origin of the word (in English English at least) "bumf" for paperwork - bum fodder.

      Of course, spies did salvage the used bumf and read it, so the practice of taking a handful of paper from the wastepaper basket with you to the latrines was banned after a while. Presumably by then it had also been used as roof insulation, but that had been forgotten.

    4. Re:Roof insulation? Could have been much worse by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      Just ot be clear here: you're implying that you like to wipe your ass on random notebook papers that you find lying around in an attic as you go for your morning walk to someplace other than the shitter, right? ;)

      Well, he is British you know.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
  5. What the.... by mcrbids · · Score: 1, Flamebait

    Somebody had to see these notes, decide that they were worthless, and actually roll them up to make insulation. I want to punch that guy. How does this happen!?!?

    --
    I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
    1. Re:What the.... by iluvcapra · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I want to punch that guy. How does this happen!?!?

      His actions saved the documents from certain destruction. Punch something else.

      --
      Don't blame me, I voted for Baltar.
    2. Re:What the.... by Lunix+Nutcase · · Score: 3, Informative

      You're mad that someone's action saved the documents from being destroyed? Did you forget to read the last sentence of the summary?

      All the findings are unique as all documentary evidence from the codebreaking process was supposed to be destroyed under wartime security rules.

    3. Re:What the.... by stoborrobots · · Score: 1

      Almost certainly the result of someone rescuing some paper from a bin to reuse in the insulation - the notes were "destroyed" as required, but re-purposed into another process.

    4. Re:What the.... by 91degrees · · Score: 2

      It was mostly just scribbling, and notes taken during decription. They had reams of the stuff that was no longer useful. This seems like mostly routine day-to-day stuff that would have been seen as having zero value a couple of days later. Probably installed while Hut 6 was actually active. They had heaps of papers that had no actual use other than insulation material.

    5. Re:What the.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They're scratch paper - they were never meant to be a permanent record.

    6. Re:What the.... by k6mfw · · Score: 1

      His actions saved the documents from certain destruction.

      This kind of thing has happened before. Some years ago (I cannot recall actual wording, read this years ago) an late 1800s old house was being remodeled. Crews found newspapers and many documents lining the framework under wall paneling. Back in the days it was common to use newspapers and other papers for insulation. Obviously they found some very old newspapers but also a original copy from late 1700s (or was it early 1800s) document. I can't remember how the story went, either one of Thomas Jefferson's papers (draft of Constitution?) or a treaty with an Indian tribe (that was never honored). I'm too lazy to search for the story of this but it was also on TV news with someone commenting, "who knows what historical documents have been used for insulation and still exists in walls."

      --
      mfwright@batnet.com
    7. Re:What the.... by OakDragon · · Score: 1

      You're mad that someone's action saved the documents from being destroyed? Did you forget to read the last sentence of the summary?

      All the findings are unique as all documentary evidence from the codebreaking process was supposed to be destroyed under wartime security rules.

      Maybe the OP is from the War Office?

    8. Re:What the.... by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      You mad, bro?

      Come at me!

      What if he misses?

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
  6. Keep looking by Tablizer · · Score: 1

    See if the Apollo 11 tapes are in there also.

    1. Re:Keep looking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      See if the Apollo 11 tapes are in there also.

      Those are kept in Area 51.

    2. Re:Keep looking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      ...to insulate the flying saucers

    3. Re:Keep looking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, it's in a Holiwood basement...

    4. Re:Keep looking by Jason+Levine · · Score: 1

      I don't think they are there, but the lost episodes of Doctor Who might be.

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    5. Re:Keep looking by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      No, a dyslexic clerk filed them at Area 15.

  7. anal jokes are inaccurate and off-topic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Learn some history; any biography of Turing will confirm that the man was indeed homosexual but did not engage in anal sex.

    1. Re:anal jokes are inaccurate and off-topic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      any biography of Turing will confirm that the man was indeed homosexual but did not engage in anal sex.

      So you are saying, like his recently found papers Turning was just a fluffer?

  8. Livermoore Lessons by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Next time you misplace hard drives, please check any recent insulation projects at LANL first!
    --The Boss

  9. Disapprove by penguinoid · · Score: 4, Funny

    Using the work of a luminary like Alan Turing is such a way is insulating!

    --
    Don't waste your vote! Vote for whoever you want, unless you live in a swing state it won't matter anyways
  10. someone forgot to shred it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The paper would serve just as well for insulation if it had been shredded.

    1. Re:someone forgot to shred it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That means that probably someone saved them on purpose, maybe Alfagn himself...

    2. Re: someone forgot to shred it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ia ia cthulhu alfagn ?

  11. 2 thumbs up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    LOL. good pun mate

  12. Re:Down with fanny bandits!! by _merlin · · Score: 3, Informative

    In the UK "fanny" is an obscene term for a woman's genitals, so given the context you're using the wrong term and making yourself look stupid. That aside, do you have as much of a problem with heterosexual arse piracy, or is it only gays that you hate? What about pegging? Are you sure you're not in the closet?

  13. Re:Lies Lies Lies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Mathematics was Russian invention! Reverse Polish maths is poor imitation.

  14. Re:Down with fanny bandits!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sodomy does not involve fannies.

  15. Question by symes · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Other than the obvious impact Turing's work had in the war effort, did people at Bletchley have any idea how valuable his work would be more generally? My computer science peers are quite good at explaining how their work might have value and impact. Indeed, a lot of scientists these days start publications by providing this context. But is the same true in the first half of the twentieth century and in the middle of a world war? It might well have been the case that his notes were genuinely believed to have more value as insulation.

    1. Re:Question by pjt33 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "Alan Turing's notes" is somewhat overselling it. They're not talking about a white paper: Bletchley would have produced hundreds of sheets of these kind of scrap workings every day, so they were genuinely worthless then. They're only worth anything now because all of the rest were destroyed. To put it in perspective, they're more valuable to us than a shopping list from that era would be, but less valuable than a shopping list from ancient Sumeria would be.

    2. Re:Question by AHuxley · · Score: 2

      In the early 1940's yes. By the 1950's the UK had an entire new generation of skilled people working on jet, nuclear and electronic brain projects. The GCHQ had moved onto helping the US with its difficult Korean war issues. By the 1950's Turing's role in ww2 and his 1950's travel was seen a huge security risk.
      Any documents and hardware from the 1940's was also seen as a security risk. Why tell the world how the UK had won ww2 by reading German Red, Tunny material in realtime? Its a good trick that the UK could keep working with Tempora https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    3. Re:Question by Anne+Thwacks · · Score: 1
      did people at Bletchley have any idea how valuable his work would be more generally?

      There were many different types of people there, but the majority would almost certainly be so worried about living to the end of the week, that "long term" was probably next month for of them. However, there were certainly a core who knew the significance, and that included Turing and his close colleagues - especially those who went to Los Alamos, and those who went on the build computers most certainly knew.

      Everyone knew that they could not talk outside the project. This was a time when you were told daily that discussion the NAAFII canteen menu could risk men's lives. (Because analysis of the menu could reveal extra calories indicating the men were about to be deployed to the front).

      Firing squads were in regular used "pour encourager les outres" as they say en Francais.

      --
      Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
    4. Re:Question by nukenerd · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Any documents and hardware from the 1940's was also seen as a security risk. Why tell the world how the UK had won ww2 by reading German Red, Tunny material in realtime?

      Churchill ordered all material at Bletchley to be destroyed (both paperwork and hardware like several Colossus computers) not primarily because of the security risk. It was highly unlikely that any other foe would use the same encryption method as the Germans had.

      It was because Churchill did not want the credit for winning the war to go to a handful of boffins rather than to the armed forces. This was for reasons of public morale; hundreds of thousands had died in combat and air raids, and everyone had lived in austerity for years. He did not want people to think that all that sacrifice had been pointless because in the end the war had really been won by "some university-type egghead smart-arses using dirty tricks" - because that is how the majority of the public would have seen it.

      If you doubt how that is how most people would have seen it in 1950, just fast-forward and think of how most people see the activities of the NSA today.

    5. Re:Question by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      Another reason was the US and UK had got the German OKW-Chi work on from the Target Intelligence Committee teams (TICOM) on the Russian Fish system.
      A Soviet military teleprinter that used packet switching was then open to the US and UK in 1945 thanks to German efforts during ww2.
      Later efforts by German teams in the UK helped with the Caviar project but only got Soviet administration messages.
      All that German material given to the UK in 1945 by the Germans was still been sorted by the UK into the early 1950's.
      Russia has its own systems and was under constant decryption efforts by Germany in ww2 and then UK and German staff after ww2.
      The same methods just kept on giving the US and UK what they needed for years and they where not going to tell the world about how easy it was or the ww2 german staff that where helping in mid 1945.
      Think of it as a Operation Paperclip for ww2 German intelligence assets that kept on working in 1945 :)

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    6. Re:Question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Alan Turing's notes" is somewhat overselling it. They're not talking about a white paper: Bletchley would have produced hundreds of sheets of these kind of scrap workings every day, so they were genuinely worthless then. They're only worth anything now because all of the rest were destroyed. To put it in perspective, they're more valuable to us than a shopping list from that era would be, but less valuable than a shopping list from ancient Sumeria would be.

      WTH?!!?!

      "Hey hon, since your mom's coming over I need to go to the market and pick up a chicken and some veggies for dinner tonight. Could you hitch up the oxen to the cart so I can take my list with me?"

    7. Re:Question by mrchaotica · · Score: 1

      If you doubt how that is how most people would have seen it in 1950, just fast-forward and think of how most people see the activities of the NSA today.

      Are you implying that Bletchley Park was spying against their own people? Because that's what's wrong with the NSA, not the fact that they're "egghead smart-asses," or the fact that they're spying. The NSA spying against foreign enemies* is just fine.

      (* Both words are important: spying against foreign allies is not fine because it leads to Five Eyes style domestic-spying-by-proxy, and spying against domestic enemies is not fine because doing so without a valid warrant (i.e., not a FISA dragnet) is unconstitutional.)

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    8. Re:Question by TapeCutter · · Score: 1

      It might well have been the case that his notes were genuinely believed to have more value as insulation.

      Unlikely, Turing's work was so useful to the war effort that Churchill basically gave him a blank cheque. It's doubtful the military brass knew anything about the insulation, if they did they would have probably burnt down the entire building just to be sure all the papers were destroyed. Sounds much more like the act of a bunch of engineers and boffins, ie: "To hell with idiotic military secrecy, I'm not putting out the top secret recycling this week, there are no Nazi's in the ceiling and I'm freezing my arse off here".

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    9. Re:Question by tnk1 · · Score: 2

      Considering that we have a lot less of even the "throwaway" from Sumeria, a "shopping list" would have told us a certain amount about their actual eating habits and customs, as well as what hair products they used to get those fabulous hairstyles.

      It's (relatively) easy to find great literature or buildings or monuments from ancient times, they are built to last or adopted by other cultures and passed down. What is hard is finding stuff that really gives insight into how people actually lived. It would be worth more than Turing's notes only because the Sumerian equivalent of Turning's notes, kept to fill in a hole for someone's hut, have not come to light in 5000 years of history since then and probably would have disappeared in just a couple decades after it was put to that use.

    10. Re:Question by tnk1 · · Score: 1

      Today's allies can be tomorrow's enemies. You most definitely spy on them, you just don't go sabotaging them.

      Yes, there is the problem of collusion like Five Eyes. So... you write a law requiring that a) all spies on our soil need to be apprehended if they are found and b) that we are not permitted to use material from foreign intelligence against internal parties unless there is a specific, clear, and present danger or during wartime. It can't be used for fishing expeditions and all employees of the agencies have a duty to report such use to an independent agency.

      Sure, they could break the law and use it to build cases against people, but what else can you do? If it is illegal to *not* report it, then someone like a Snowden is clearly a whistleblower and not a traitor.

      What you can't do is assume that your friends are sacrosanct from intelligence activities. I believe we've fought wars in the past against all our current friends, and have been friends with some of our current enemies.

    11. Re:Question by TapeCutter · · Score: 1

      so they were genuinely worthless then

      I think what you're trying to say is that they had served their original purpose. If they were worthless at the time, the military would not have gone out of their way to ensure none of it survived the war. Note that after the war the "five eyes" kept a lid on their wartime code breaking technology until the 1970's, long after Turing's death they were using it to listen in on friends and foes who had no idea such sophisticated code cracking techniques were even possible.

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    12. Re:Question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That might be part of the reason, but the UK sold encryption they knew was broken to a bunch of countries. If they told everyone they could easily read the encrypted contents they wouldn't be able to read the victims' communications.

    13. Re:Question by TapeCutter · · Score: 1

      It was because Churchill did not want the credit for winning the war to go to a handful of boffins rather than to the armed forces.

      Not really, and the credit goes to both the fighters and the thinkers. Aside from being the key to sinking the entire U-boat fleet in the N. Atlantic by informing the fighters where the subs would surface, this is the same technology that was used to arrange a more famous naval ambush known as the battle of midway. Churchill and his allies didn't want anyone to know about the techniques because it was a huge military and economic advantage, even the fact they existed was kept a secret, so much so that very few people knew anything about it until the 1970's. Fact is they didn't mothball the technology after the war, they formed the five eyes intelligence alliance around it and held on to the advantage for as long as they could.

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    14. Re:Question by u38cg · · Score: 1

      [citation needed]

      --
      [FUCK BETA]
    15. Re:Question by k6mfw · · Score: 1

      there are no Nazi's in the ceiling and I'm freezing my arse off here".

      best explanation ever.

      --
      mfwright@batnet.com
    16. Re:Question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You pulled of a Snowden... (I'm not sure if this wins or loses the argument).

    17. Re:Question by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      There was an exception; the extensive Pearl Harbor hearings shortly after the war revealed the breaking of the main Japanese naval code. It is interesting to go through history written through the 1960s and notice things that just happened to go well for the Western Allies because they "guessed right".

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    18. Re:Question by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      There's also the fact that the Brits scooped up all the Enigma machines they could and sold them cheap to new governments of emerging nations. The British were doing their best to make sure that other people used the exact same encryption method the Germans had used.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    19. Re:Question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Today's allies can be tomorrow's enemies. You most definitely spy on them, you just don't go sabotaging them.

      And of course a good way to make this happen is to spy on them.

  16. Next steps ... by slimdave · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The notes will be restored and then popped into a glass display case with one or two pages visible, with a sort-of description of why they are important.

    Pretty much all of Bletchley is like this, unfortunately. Stuff on display that you are not going to understand, such as copies of Turing's early mathematical papers with only the first page showing.

    The problem with the whole Bletchley Park experience is that it was obviously extremely important, but is practically beyond all explanation for the ordinary punter. I think I might be able to intellectually struggle through an explanation of some of it, but the displays do not explain it in enough detail to help with that. Overall, my visit felt like a patchwork of different explanations of the same few concepts using poster boards, audio devices and video and interactive displays. It's padded out with various "wartime experience" bits here and there.

    It probably seems like a very negative attitude, but a technical chap in his mid-forties with a couple of bright teenagers in tow ought to be right in the target demographic for Bletchley, but I'm practically embarrassed to say that I ended up drinking weak hot chocolate in the cafe and agreeing with my boys that it was all rather dull.

    Special commendation for the rack of old bicycles at the end of one of the huts, with a hidden speaker to give you the authentic experience of what squeaky bicycle wheels sounded like in the 1940's. Or something?

    1. Re:Next steps ... by nogginthenog · · Score: 1

      The National Museum of Computing at Bletchley (which is a separate entity) is the best bit IMHO. You can see Colossus running and chat with the guys restoring old valve computers.

    2. Re:Next steps ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "The notes will be restored and then popped into a glass display case with one or two pages visible, with a sort-of description of why they are important."

      I would think they'll digitally copy whatever they can for more serious review and then display as you suggest. FWIW, the Book of Kells only had a page open when we saw it and I think they said the page rotated to avoid light damage. If it's interesting enough, it'll end up somewhere where you can get to see the facsimile.

  17. Re: Down with fanny bandits!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Funny

    As this is an american site, you should not use the english language, you should use the american languange, in which "fanny" is a term referencing an individuals butt.

  18. SubjectsInCommentsAreStupid by lesincompetent · · Score: 1

    Anything in there concerning something like "P" or "NP"? One can dream...

    1. Re:SubjectsInCommentsAreStupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "I found N = NP, but this margin is too narrow to write down the proof."

  19. Re: Down with fanny bandits!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    an individual butthole ? We do we call them merkins.

  20. Brits hated him so much.... by Lumpy · · Score: 1, Flamebait

    Yet he did more to save their asses than ALL of the RAF.

    I hope all you brits are still ashamed of yourselves.

    --
    Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    1. Re:Brits hated him so much.... by Aristos+Mazer · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Pretty much any country in the world would have treated Turing the same in that era. Most of the world still would. The Brits have no special shame in that category, and they have been doing their level best to set things right. Many other countries still have yet to catch up, not just legally, but culturally.

    2. Re:Brits hated him so much.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don’t think changing history benefits anybody it just makes people look stupid much the same as the black inventors that never were. Biuro Szyfrów “Cipher Bureau” codebreakers Polish long before the mathematician Alan Turing.
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biuro_Szyfrów

      Cryptanalysis of the Enigma
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptanalysis_of_the_Enigma

      Tommy Flowers, Flowers was born at 160 Abbot Road, Poplar in London’s East End on 22 December 1905, the son of a bricklayer. Thomas “Tommy” Harold Flowers, MBE (22 December 1905 – 28 October 1998) was a British engineer. During World War II, Flowers designed Colossus, the world’s first programmable electronic computer, to help solve encrypted German messages.

      Died 28 October 1998 (aged 92)
      Mill Hill, London, England
      Nationality British
      Occupation Engineer
      Spouse(s) Eileen Margeret Green
      Children 2
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_Flowers

    3. Re:Brits hated him so much.... by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yet he did more to save their asses than ALL of the RAF.

      I hope all you brits are still ashamed of yourselves.

      As opposed to forcibly enslaving millions of people around the world through several centuries of colonial rule? If you're going to lay a guilt trip on Britain, what about the US with it's legacy of slavery? And good heavens, look at the evils perpetrated in communist Russia, or Germany and Japan during the war years. Look, every country has their black marks, and some are pretty damn black indeed. If you're going to collectively assign guilt to future generations, it will never end. Ever. Future generations will also look at us and sadly shake their heads, I'm sure. We learn from the past, we forgive, we try to make things right as best we can, and we move on.

      The British government has offered an official apology for their treatment of him and pardoned him, and I'm not sure how much more he can be honored and appreciated he can be at this point, not just by the Brits, but by everyone who knows how much he accomplished. See my sig.

      --
      Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
    4. Re:Brits hated him so much.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Shut the fuck up you chump, you blatantly know nothing as he in highly respected in the UK, as he should be. Just because a film comes out showing he was persecuted at the time for being gay, does not mean he is "hated" now by any means. How about you move to Russia which has JUST banned any LGBT activity.

    5. Re:Brits hated him so much.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You call the worst the USA did was slavery?
      The crap we did to the american indians makes what hitler did look tame.

    6. Re:Brits hated him so much.... by nukenerd · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Tommy Flowers, .... was a British engineer. During World War II, Flowers designed Colossus, the world’s first programmable electronic computer, to help solve encrypted German messages.

      Funny, I was going to mention Tommy Flowers in a post above. I find it a bit odd that people today have focussed on Turing as the hero of that time; I cannot help wondering if it's because of the gay angle. As you say, Flowers built the first computer than can be called modern - electronic, programmable, general purpose. Yet hardly anyone has ever heard of him.

      At the time Bletchley Park seemed to be divided into two "camps" and Flowers was up against some influential opponents. One described Colossus as "a waste of good valves".

      Flowers even put some of his own money into building the first Colossus (there were several), for which he was never fully re-imbursed, although after the war he did get a small award. What a far cry from the billions made by Jobs, Wang, Gates & co two generations later. Churchill's order to destroy the Bletchley Park paperwork and hardware left a near vacuum in the history of computing - there are many people today who even think Bill Gates invented computers, FFS.

    7. Re:Brits hated him so much.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nah, that was totally different. Hitler locked his 6 million or so victims up in camps and executed them quickly. The US starved their 10's of millions of victims out, introduced infectious disease, and killed off civilian populations with an army and some corporate "security forces". (Mostly railroads, but others were allowed to join the fray if they chose.) If you thought US facism was new, you would be very, very wrong. It's always been for the corporate people, by the corporate people.

      Hitler wanted extermination. The US wanted enslavement and subjugation. It's a bit different. Still terrible, but different.

    8. Re:Brits hated him so much.... by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 1

      You call the worst the USA did was slavery?
      The crap we did to the american indians makes what hitler did look tame.

      The USA didn't, as a matter of official policy, set out to systematically exterminate the entire race of American Indians. Bad enough what we did do, which was to essentially imprison and subjugate them under the weight of western civilization and technology, in addition to isolated acts of cruelty, slavery, and even mass murder. However, the comparison to Hitler means you either don't really know your history or are rather prone to hyperbole.

      --
      Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
    9. Re:Brits hated him so much.... by Rich0 · · Score: 1

      Yet he did more to save their asses than ALL of the RAF.

      Well, Turing had a HUGE impact on the war, no doubt. It is a bit much to say that it was more than ALL of the RAF. The allies would almost certainly have won without Ultra (eventually), but they certainly wouldn't have won without the conventional forces.

      I hope all you brits are still ashamed of yourselves.

      Well, the folks who treated him (and others) this way should be ashamed of their actions. The "brits" certainly were no worse in this regard than most who were alive at the time. The use of the word "still" is a bit chilling - most of the people who were around at the time are well into old age at this point. I think it is far more important to learn from our mistakes and the mistakes of our parents, and not beg for forgiveness from the descendants of whatever aboriginal our great great grandparents drove off their land.

    10. Re:Brits hated him so much.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The "6 million" number is, inaccuracy aside, only for the Jewish victims. The death toll was much greater, but nobody cares about the commies, gypsies and fags imprisoned, starved and killed.

    11. Re:Brits hated him so much.... by ledow · · Score: 2

      Absolutely no disrespect to Mr Flowers:

      The computer was the tool.

      The code was cracked not by tools alone, but by mathematical insight, luck, sloppiness on the other side and a number of factors.

      So while Flowers was undoubtedly the engineer that could build the machine to automate the calculations that were being done, the actual calculations and WHY they worked were the part of Turing and others. And in the process he added a whole new branch to the mathematics of the time (which we now call Computer Science).

      Turing dreamed it, Flowers built it, but it's hard to imagine the machine being much use without the maths - the code was broken by complicated mathematical analysis of the mistakes made, basically, and was brought into the realm of the feasible by mathematical shortcuts and spotting of dead-ends. However, the maths could be applied - albeit slowly - to the code even without computers.

      Turing made it theoretically possible. Flowers made it practically possible - by building the machine that actual tried to do it, and did it fast enough to be useful.

      Both deserve respect.

    12. Re:Brits hated him so much.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What is a mere implementation when contrasted with a theoretic framework?

    13. Re:Brits hated him so much.... by pigsycyberbully · · Score: 0

      Psychological manipulation or social influence is not necessarily negative depending on how it affects YOU. If it benefits you then it is in your interest to promote it. Do you understand? I know of Tommy Flowers, and you know of Tommy Flowers, and when somebody reads this they know of Tommy Flowers and the secret will eventually spread . But for now the masses will believe a gay man Alan Turing, was the person responsible for shortening the war. it benefits gay people and it is meant to make heterosexual people ashamed for mistreating homosexual people. http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?TommyFl... ( On the other hand, in early 1998 Tommy Flowers said with great feeling to a friend of mine, when Nic referred to AlanTuring's "great contribution" to Colossus (and I accept Colossus and the enigma code breakers had a key role in the Allies defeating Hitler): "Alan Turing had nothing to do with it!" It seemed like it wasn't the first time he had heard of Turing's "great contribution" to the engineering and practical breakthroughs that nobody now questions Tommy was crucially involved in - and he was quite keen to put the record straight! ). https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ouk&...

    14. Re:Brits hated him so much.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Becuse the Jewish propaganda doesn't care about anyone else.

    15. Re:Brits hated him so much.... by painandgreed · · Score: 1

      As opposed to forcibly enslaving millions of people around the world through several centuries of colonial rule?

      So, what about Ireland?

    16. Re:Brits hated him so much.... by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Yet he did more to save their asses than ALL of the RAF.

      I hope all you brits are still ashamed of yourselves.

      Yeah, if only he could have made it to the US, he'd have been welcomed with open arms. It was a real haven for left wing gays in the 1950s.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    17. Re:Brits hated him so much.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just don't forget that the first electronic digital computer was invented by John Vincent Atanasoff in 1939, so Flowers and everybody else came in second place.

  21. Re:Down with fanny bandits!! by nogginthenog · · Score: 3, Informative

    "fanny" in the UK is a term for a woman's genitals, but it is not obscene!

  22. Re:Down with fanny bandits!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Speak 'merican or GTFO.

  23. National Cryptologic Museum was different by langelgjm · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Visited the National Cryptologic Museum (on the same campus as the NSA, just off 295 in Maryland) about a decade ago. I and my then-girlfriend were probably the only visitors in the entire building, and the staff were pretty excited to see us. They even let us try out the German Enigma machine they had on display - no glass display case at that time! Don't know if it's changed in the last ten years, though.

    --
    "Anyone who [rips a CD] is probably engaging in copyright infringement." - David O. Carson
    1. Re:National Cryptologic Museum was different by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      Still the same. My dad took me there during a snow storm once when I was a kid. Having the curator to yourself is quite an experience as they really know their stuff.

      The three wheel enigma is still on display for kids to type away on. It amazingly still works.

      https://www.nsa.gov/about/cryp...

      Another neat one is the National Electronics Museum just up 295 off Nursery Rd

      http://www.nationalelectronics...

      They have displays on electronics concepts and quite a bit of old hardware used in radar, communications, satellites, whatever. Was great when the kids were younger, and still great as they are becoming teens.

      BTW, don't be put off by all the NSA security, the National Cryptologic Museum is easily accessible without going through the checkpoints (you turn left before the checkpoints to reach it). They also both have cool gift shops, at the NCM one, you can get NSA merchandise, as well as neat gadgets like a "spy tool" combo compass, binocs, mirror device and other kid kind of stuff.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
  24. Re: Down with fanny bandits!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    And we've reached full circle. For, you see, a merkin is a toupee for a fanny.

  25. Nazists? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Nazists... what a strange nation, when was Nazi country created? Was it located close to Germany for example?

  26. Re:Down with fanny bandits!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...so given the context you're using the wrong term and making yourself look stupid.

    This one does not need context to make himself look stupid.

  27. Re:Down with fanny bandits!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In the US, it's a term for a woman's (or delicate man's) behind.

  28. Re: Down with fanny bandits!! by GerardAtJob · · Score: 1

    Damn, Fanny was one of my friends.... (It's a first name around here).

    --
    I can't call that English ;-)
  29. Re: Down with fanny bandits!! by david_thornley · · Score: 1

    Keats wrote some superb poetry for a woman named Fanny Brawne.

    --
    "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  30. Re: Down with fanny bandits!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If it's an american site, would that be .ca, .us, .mx, .ni, .ht, .pr or one of the many others?

  31. Re: Down with fanny bandits!! by tehcyder · · Score: 1

    Keats wrote some superb poetry for a woman named Fanny Brawne.

    And Fanny Craddock was a 1970s celebrity TV chef.

    I'm not quite sure what your point is.

    --
    To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
  32. Re:LOL by tehcyder · · Score: 1

    So I've been in meetings all day, then finally get home and I saw this story on /.'s feed. I thought, "ah, it'll be good for some immature homo jokes"

    By "meetings" I take it you mean "school lessons"?

    --
    To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
  33. Re:LOL by grub · · Score: 1

    Nah, I'm pushing 50 :) School decades ago.

    --
    Trolling is a art,
  34. Re: Down with fanny bandits!! by Arterion · · Score: 1

    Consider the usage in the slang term "fanny pack", which I recall from the 90's was a sort of belt-pouch not unlike where my level 12 high elf wizard keeps his spellcasting reagents.

    --
    "That which does not kill us makes us stranger." -Trevor Goodchild
  35. Re: Down with fanny bandits!! by Arterion · · Score: 1

    Sounds like an adult film empire...

    --
    "That which does not kill us makes us stranger." -Trevor Goodchild
  36. Re: Down with fanny bandits!! by _merlin · · Score: 1

    That's called a "bum bag" in other countries.