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Drones and Satellites Spot Lost Civilizations In Unlikely Places

Posted by samzenpus on from the all-the-better-to-see-you-with dept.

sciencehabit writes What do the Sahara desert and the Amazon rainforest have in common? Until recently, archaeologists would have told you they were both inhospitable environments devoid of large-scale human settlements. But they were wrong. Here today at the annual meeting of the AAAS, two researchers explained how remote sensing technology, including satellite imaging and drone flights, is revealing the traces of past civilizations that have been hiding in plain sight."

55 comments

  1. every few years by ganjadude · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Every few years we read about long lost civilizations that were found by aerial footage. I remember a handfull of years ago people were using google earth to locate some. Its always interesting when the news comes out. but 99% of the time once its "found" thats the end of it for us, no more news ever comes out. Hopefully this will lead to some new findings

    --
    have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
    1. Re:every few years by ganjadude · · Score: 1

      on the one hand, i do understand not wanting to give up the locations you are working on so others dont publish before you do, or worse, grave robbers and other bad guys, but on the other hand you are right. crowd sourcing would make the type of work he is doing much easier

      --
      have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
    2. Re:every few years by TWX · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Except that in both cases, evidence of civilization in both places has been established prior to satellites and aircraft, and anthropologists and archeologists have provided evidence, and climate scientists have provided us with theories for the end of that civilization in what's now the Sahara, in the form of the Sahara Pump Theory.

      Sure, aerial survey techniques can be used to help, and might even be able to establish evidence in other places, but for the moment it isn't quite as influential as the summary makes it out to be.

      --
      Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    3. Re:every few years by rtb61 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      That of course is of limited benefit as humanity has a predilection to crafting civilisations on the coast at river mouths. Not much visible ancient history of that but of course end of a twenty odd thousand year long ice age and a rather substantial couple of hundred metre odd rise in sea level. Perhaps sonar mapping will expose far more than aerial or satellite images. Watching you civilisation die beneath the waves will likely have a major impact upon where you choose to rebuild it, keeping in mind the real destructive impact of societies attempting to relocate to more primitive already inhabited areas.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    4. Re:every few years by kylemonger · · Score: 1

      I'd settle for a link to a Google Earth image that shows one of these civilizations "hiding in plain sight". The article only has some stock image of a desert that looks like it was shot form the back of a jeep.

    5. Re:every few years by Blaskowicz · · Score: 1

      On yet another hand, the US gave Saddam Hussein interpretations of satellite pictures done by military intelligence experts rather than just the pictures alone, to help during the war against Iran. I don't think the work is necessarily so easy that it just gets done on its own and the pictures may be quite unglamorous. Why not let people who can do the work do it ; setting up the web infrastructure, database access, pretty-printing the data for everyday joes and then managing the community and signal/noise ratio would be a big task. Interesting, but it would have to be funded.

    6. Re:every few years by gl4ss · · Score: 1

      basically its just "OMG DRONESSSS"

      it's just aerial imaging. nothing new and the "how" things have been looked for and found with it is old hat..

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    7. Re:every few years by Paradise+Pete · · Score: 1, Interesting

      You went from premise to conclusion to anger to wild accusation in consecutive sentences. Impressive.

    8. Re:every few years by gl4ss · · Score: 1

      unlikely as ground for most part has risen not sunken for the time period we believe there to have been advanced large cultures.

      anyways, plenty of stuff still found at the ancient harbors in greece, italy and egypt.

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    9. Re:every few years by GrumpySteen · · Score: 1, Funny

      basically its just "OMG DRONESSSS"

      That should be "OMG DRONIES!!!!" and it should be in giant pink letters with animated sparkles like this.

    10. Re:every few years by EdwardFurlong · · Score: 1

      I was thinking the same thing... where are the pictures? You can post a few, nobody is going to be able to figure out the location from some pictures a drone took.

    11. Re:every few years by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My understanding is that lost civilizations in South America have been detected by satellite for a couple of decades and they are numerous and remain unexplored. The treasure hunting community has been well aware of the situation. The expense and hazards of trying to get into these remote ancient city sites has kept most of them from any human visitation at all. Formal study of these sites is unlikely as the universities can not fund the numerous projects that deserve attention.

    12. Re:every few years by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

      Every few years we read about long lost civilizations that were found by aerial footage. I remember a handfull of years ago people were using google earth to locate some. Its always interesting when the news comes out. but 99% of the time once its "found" thats the end of it for us, no more news ever comes out.

      Plenty of news comes out - if you're following the relevant news sources. If you rely on mass/popular media (which relies on sex and shock to sell, and includes Slashdot), all you're going to get is sizzle - the steak is in the specialized news.

  2. Lets hope by rossdee · · Score: 1

    Lets hope they can find the ancient aliens civilisation so we can discover some of their technology (fusion power, FTL druve, antigravity...

    1. Re:Lets hope by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lets hope they can find the ancient aliens civilisation so we can discover some of their technology (fusion power, FTL druve, antigravity...

      Some effective grammar and spell checking software would be a good second prize though.

  3. that one special word by YrWrstNtmr · · Score: 1

    'Drone'
    That makes the article special

    How about...aircraft.?

    1. Re:that one special word by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They had me at AAAS

  4. New Civilizations by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yippppeeeee for the new civilizations!!!!!!!!!!

    1. Re:New Civilizations by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Now that's something you star wars fans don't know shit about -exploration, discovery, betterment. For you it's all hack, slash and shoot crap.

      That's why sci fi collectively dumbed down hundreds of points once your franchise became the dominant one.

  5. How can a civilization perish without AGW? by mi · · Score: 0, Troll

    I wonder, on what the changes of climate, that eventually turned Sahara into an inhospitable desert, were blamed by the shamans of the time...

    Could it possibly have been the burning of too much of the wrong fuels by the selfish population? Or some other sacrilege?

    --
    In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    1. Re:How can a civilization perish without AGW? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm sure we will find out when they dig up some old backup tapes from those civilizations. I'm sure they have them because nothing new could ever happen in the future that is different from the past.

    2. Re:How can a civilization perish without AGW? by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 0

      The Sahara as we know it now exists mainly because during 'roman times' (+/-500 years) the woods there got lumbered down.
      So yes, it is mainly man made.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    3. Re:How can a civilization perish without AGW? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Completely wrong. At least provide a credible source for this astounding claim.

    4. Re:How can a civilization perish without AGW? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Could it possibly have been the burning of too much of the wrong fuels by the selfish population? Or some other sacrilege?

      Didnt you read /. last week - AGW is so dangerous, it can work backwards in time too!

    5. Re:How can a civilization perish without AGW? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Perhaps they forgot a "0"...? In fact, it has been much like the present desert for about 5000 years.

    6. Re:How can a civilization perish without AGW? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This comment, with the mod of +2, Informative, is all you have to know to see how far Slashdot has fallen.

    7. Re:How can a civilization perish without AGW? by ModelX · · Score: 1

      The Sahara as we know it now exists mainly because during 'roman times' (+/-500 years) the woods there got lumbered down.
      So yes, it is mainly man made.

      That's not quite true. Lumbering only affected the progress of northern border of Sahara.

      The weather patterns were also changing during Roman times. There was more rain in some places and some places were even warmer than today.

    8. Re:How can a civilization perish without AGW? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That area used to be a massive, beautiful near-tropical landscape.
      It got devoured because, you know, humans started around that area.

      To think we were only smart "in recent times" is insulting to older humans.
      We made tools, we could farm, we could build, we just never had access to much of the modern elements and molecules we do now.
      If we did, we'd have figured out how to use them too.
      But the tl;dr of it is mass farming and destruction of woodland led to it. Just like it did in many areas in America too, and China.

      It wasn't the ONLY fault, though. The wind done far more damage to the landscape. Even minor deserts can grow at stupidly fast rates over the years.
      The sahara would have been light dustiness at best, but that expands, it coats things, things die, and it repeats. Deserts spread like bacteria.
      It can be reversed, we know how to do it, but it is extremely costly the larger it gets because you have to protect it from getting coated on more layers of dust again.
      The wind is an evil mistress when you combine it with deserts.
      Oddly enough, it is climate change that reverses the damage done by them because it gives a chance for them to settle and eventually become sandstone. Whether this will happen in Africa being so south is another question. But that won't happen for a while. See you next ice age.

    9. Re:How can a civilization perish without AGW? by grey1 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I think the evidence suggests a longer-range climate cycle, rather than a man-made event, at least based on some of the material summarised in wikipedia on the Sahara:

      Sahara pump theory with long periods of increased rainfall

      Neolithic subpluvial with a wet phase from about 10000 years ago to about 5000 years ago

      and then a very specific paper from 1987, for those who like their research in detailed PDFs, describing the evidence (bones, different alluvial deposits etc) for the wet period

      --
      "we demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!"
    10. Re:How can a civilization perish without AGW? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Completely wrong. At least provide a credible source for this astounding claim.

      Look no further than the story of Ali Baba and the 40 thieves. Although this story has been retold and collected numerous times during the centuries, and undergone extensive editing in the process, all sources agree on Ali Baba's occupation: not an imam, not a slave trader, not a caravan owner, not a camel breeder, but an incongruous wood cutter (the ancient equivalent of a lumberjack).

      (ok, now take a deep breath and a pinch of salt for the above.)

    11. Re:How can a civilization perish without AGW? by mi · · Score: 2

      The Sahara as we know it now exists mainly because during 'roman times' (+/-500 years) the woods there got lumbered down.

      Here is the timeline — already linked to once before:

      • 22,000 to 10,500 years ago: The Sahara was devoid of any human occupation outside the Nile Valley and extended 250 miles further south than it does today.
      • 10,500 to 9,000 years ago: Monsoon rains begin sweeping into the Sahara, transforming the region into a habitable area swiftly settled by Nile Valley dwellers.
      • 9,000 to 7,300 years ago: Continued rains, vegetation growth, and animal migrations lead to well established human settlements, including the introduction of domesticated livestock such as sheep and goats.
      • 7,300 to 5,500 years ago: Retreating monsoonal rains initiate desiccation in the Egyptian Sahara, prompting humans to move to remaining habitable niches in Sudanese Sahara. The end of the rains and return of desert conditions throughout the Sahara after 5,500 coincides with population return to the Nile Valley and the beginning of pharaonic society.

      Then there is this article, in which a NASA scientist explains the climate-change with changes in Earth's orbit. It also dates the end of the "Green Sahara" at about 5500 years ago. Or, roughly, three thousand years before the nameless momma-wolf suckled the fateful human twins...

      Can one get any more wrong than blaming Roman lumber industry for Sahara's climate-change? I suppose, one can. But you are certainly within the top 1% territory...

      Lots of other stuff on the subject is along the same line, but nothing blames the humans today. Whether the humans of the times blamed each other, was my original question.

      --
      In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    12. Re:How can a civilization perish without AGW? by Moridineas · · Score: 1

      Nicely said!

    13. Re:How can a civilization perish without AGW? by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      I was manly referring to the parts the romans occupied, obviously.

      Also you missed the point of +/- 500 years, extend it to -1500 then, does not really matter.

      Point is: even during roman times the north of the *now* Shara, and that means the whole area from Marocco to Egypt was a fertile Wood/Fields area, the main grain harvesting ground for the mediterranean area.

      However you are right about the core of the Sahara.

      If you want to ask why Spain is so dry, same answer: deforested mainly during roman times.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    14. Re:How can a civilization perish without AGW? by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      Sorry,

      I was unprecise, I was more talking about the edges of the Sahara, mainly the 300km stripe at the mediterranean coast from Marocco to Egypt.

      Ofc the Sahara center is an other issue and has a quite fluctuating history since the end of the ice age.

      But thanx for the links, they are interesting!

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    15. Re:How can a civilization perish without AGW? by mi · · Score: 1

      If you want to ask why Spain is so dry, same answer: deforested mainly during roman times.

      Seriously? You were just demonstrated to be full of manure and typing up the content of the wrong orifice. Instead of running away in shame and changing your /. account to reduce the frequency of nightmares of this public planing set to haunt you for years to come, instead of seeking counseling or joining a monastery, you are right back here fighting some sort of rearguard action?

      No, I don't want to ask, why Spain is dry — it is the topic of neither the TFA nor of our cute little conversation here.

      The semi-humorous point I was making is that the Earth — already inhabited by Homo Sapiense — has undergone many changes — some of them with very dramatic effects. In addition to Sahara's changes, I can name

      1. Ice-sheet around Kodiak islands melting, forever isolating Kodiak bears (who can not swim) and forcing them to fork their own branch, so to speak — 11700 years ago.
      2. The seas rising enough to make Tasmania an island about 10000 years ago (roughly 25000 years after the first humans arrived there);
      3. Village of Mulifanua drowned in the sea about 3000 years ago;
      4. City of Heracleion in Northern Africa sinks in the Mediterranian 1200 years ago. Well, finally, something you can blame on those Roman loggers.

      And, of course, the giant elephant, nay mammoth in every AGW-alarmist's room: the Ice Age... If such stupendous changes in climate, ice-sheets, and sea-levels happened for some reasons before the humans had the technology blamed by the (in)famous "hockey stick" for the changes of today, is it not reasonable to doubt, anything other than those same reasons are responsible for what little changes are observed today?

      And is it really so wrong — trolling and flamebaiting — to mock those, who insist, without any proof, some other reasons must be at play?

      --
      In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    16. Re:How can a civilization perish without AGW? by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      Don't know what you want to say or ask :)

      It is a no brainer that climate changes happend without human interference.

      So, what is your point?

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
  6. I came for pictures.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    DON'T WASTE YOUR TIME CLICKING ON THIS ARTICLE!
    I came for pictures but all I got was teasers for conferences.

    1. Re:I came for pictures.... by Rockoon · · Score: 1

      mod parent +1 definitive

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    2. Re:I came for pictures.... by Ritz_Just_Ritz · · Score: 1

      Indeedy. Slashvertisement for some conference. **yawn**

  7. Yamamomo by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 2

    The Yamamomo didn't want to be found, and being found destroyed their world.

    --
    If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
  8. Rubert Murdoch is excited about this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    He can't wait to learn about yet another great civilization built by snow-white desert dwellers in Africa.

  9. Re:Was it in Africa? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wrong! Read some politically correct history. The Africans were an entirely peaceful people living in abundance and prosperity. They were curing diseases, inventing advanced mathematics and furthering science until the warlike white savages from Europe came along and ruined everything.

  10. Re: Was it in Africa? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What the hell are you talking about? Sub-Saharan Africa didn't even have written language. You know Madagascar, that huge island just a few hundred kilometers off the coast of Africa? Completely inhabited by Melanesian peoples. That's right, sub Saharan Africans never even invented the boat and were restricted to the main continent while an island just hundreds of km away was discovered and settled by people from tens of thousands of km away.

  11. Re: Was it in Africa? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I wonder why the natives of the Comores, the islands between Madagascar and Africa, speak a Bantu language (of the Niger-Congo languages) then. They probably flew over from mainland Africa, as the sub-Saharan people didn't invent any boats as you claim.

  12. Re: Was it in Africa? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Whoooooooooooooooooosh!!!

  13. Moderation fails again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I bet you're right at ten to one odds. These republicans constntly lie to get more research money. And believing a liar makes you a liar.

  14. Re:a few huts in the jungle != civilization by cusco · · Score: 1

    Wow, so much stupid in such a short post. One of the oldest villages yet uncovered existed in the Atacama Desert on the Peruvian coast. The invention of adobe in both the New and Old worlds appears to have happened about the same time. When the European barbarians arrived the Inca and Aztec capitals were two or three times the size of any city in Europe or anywhere else outside China, cleaner, better organized, and more advanced in almost everything but weaponry. The first Spaniards who floated down the Amazon reported thriving cities and extensive fields all along the river. Goods were exchanged between the high Andes and the lower Amazon. By the time the Portuguese had arrived to explore the Amazon disease had killed 90+ percent of the population and the jungle was reclaiming land down to the river's banks.

    The two principal advantages the Europeans had were 1) unrivaled ignorant religious fanaticism unequaled until the modern Wahabist movement, and 2) their habit of living in a level of filth unknown at any other point in human history which ensured the survivors were immune to, and carriers of, almost every disease known to mankind.

    --
    "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
  15. Here is some actual information by AlejoHausner · · Score: 1
    OK folks, let's stop griping about the OP and try to get some actual content. If you look at the home page of David Mattingly, the main researcher on this project, and check his list of publications, you'll hit this one:

    http://dx.doi.org/10.1017/S000...

    It describes his team's exploration of previously-unknown settlement by Garamantes people, ancestors of today's Tuaregs, who dominated the Sahara from 500 BC to 700 AD. Cool stuff. He's been working in the area for 20 years, and the people in question were known to the classical Greeks and Romans.