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EU Free Data Roaming, Net Neutrality Plans In Jeopardy

An anonymous reader writes EU free data roaming and net neutrality plans now look like they are in doubt as European regulators have dropped plans to ban roaming charges and have proposed net neutrality rules allowing privileged access in some cases. This comes as a U-turn of plans [compared to] 2014, when EU MEPs voted to scrap mobile roaming fees in Europe by 15th December 2015, with the proposal orginally covered on Slashdot in 2010."

71 comments

  1. Free roaming sounds nice... by danbob999 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    But when you think about it, what would stop a provider with a single antenna in say, Andorra or Vatican, to offer unlimited plans at Euro 5/month and free ride on providers with real network coverage?

    1. Re:Free roaming sounds nice... by p.g.king · · Score: 1

      I don't think they were obliging operators to sign roaming agreements with other operators, so you'd only enter into agreements with carriers on a fair basis.

    2. Re:Free roaming sounds nice... by Registered+Coward+v2 · · Score: 1

      But when you think about it, what would stop a provider with a single antenna in say, Andorra or Vatican, to offer unlimited plans at Euro 5/month and free ride on providers with real network coverage?

      Providers have roaming agreements where they reimburse each other for roaming in the US. As long as it is relatively balanced there is no real cost to it. A single tower providercwould get killed in such a acenario sinc they would pay much more than they take in. That's also why they will drop you if you roam too much.

      --
      I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
    3. Re:Free roaming sounds nice... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      There's indeed all kind of commercial issues. No-one will disagree on that.

      Yet, daily practices are very strange pricing schemes with all EU telco's. Where calling mobile may be cheaper than land line. But roaming is indeed a very practical issue for anyone crossing a border, and getting charged over 2 euro for 1 megabyte of data is more the rule than the exception.
      Smarter users avoid getting unexpected bills using pre-pay plans. But on average, _everyone_ is being ripped of left or right. There are no fair plans. It's hard to find a,say, 100 euro true unlimited plan. It's hard to find roaming at normal prices. It _does_ exist though, it you search. But as said, most providers will just rip you off whenever they find a chance.

      More legally - this shows how the EU has sometimes embarrassing little power. The EU parliament votes. The joining countries overrule. They just use 'EU' as excuse when convenient, and ignore as soon they please too, which often leads to schizophrenic state politics. This is just a symptom.

      Concluding: the EU parliament chooses the most ethical-correct choice. The members of the EU choose to ignore it for, mostly, commercial reasons.

    4. Re:Free roaming sounds nice... by Registered+Coward+v2 · · Score: 2

      There's indeed all kind of commercial issues. No-one will disagree on that.

      Yet, daily practices are very strange pricing schemes with all EU telco's. Where calling mobile may be cheaper than land line. But roaming is indeed a very practical issue for anyone crossing a border, and getting charged over 2 euro for 1 megabyte of data is more the rule than the exception. Smarter users avoid getting unexpected bills using pre-pay plans. But on average, _everyone_ is being ripped of left or right. There are no fair plans. It's hard to find a,say, 100 euro true unlimited plan. It's hard to find roaming at normal prices. It _does_ exist though, it you search. But as said, most providers will just rip you off whenever they find a chance.

      It is interesting to see how the EU and USA mobile markets evolved differently, which I attribute in part to the different cultural identity in the two places. US Companies see themselevs as US companies and so it was natural for them to dvelop a US network acrosss the entire country. The EU companies were more likly to seethemselves as French or German as were regulators in those countries who would protrct them from foriegn competition. As aresultyou have a very localized network rather than an EU wide network.

      More legally - this shows how the EU has sometimes embarrassing little power. The EU parliament votes. The joining countries overrule. They just use 'EU' as excuse when convenient, and ignore as soon they please too, which often leads to schizophrenic state politics. This is just a symptom.

      Concluding: the EU parliament chooses the most ethical-correct choice. The members of the EU choose to ignore it for, mostly, commercial reasons.

      The EU is learning ehat the US learned right after the American War. A confederation does not work to create a single political or social entity.

      --
      I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
    5. Re:Free roaming sounds nice... by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Free roaming SOUNDS nice, but it's not really a good idea for the average person.

      Face it: Telcos will want to retain their revenue. One way or another. And if roaming is cut, something has to pick up the slack.

      And now ask yourself who would benefit from calls across Europe costing the same as domestic calls. Hint: It ain't gonna be you with your 2 weeks vacation abroad.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    6. Re:Free roaming sounds nice... by danbob999 · · Score: 3, Informative

      You could use the same argument within a single country. The average person only needs coverage in his home city, right? Why would roaming across France be free when you live in Paris?

    7. Re:Free roaming sounds nice... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      First of all, "free roaming" means no extra cost for roaming. Normal charges would still apply.

      The roaming would have to be "no surcharge" where it is available, but the provider would not be compelled to offer roaming. If that "single tower provider" wanted to offer their customers roaming, they would have to have contracts with other providers to buy access to their networks, and then sell it on to the customers at the same price that they charge on the home network.

      It should be noted that there are already providers in Europe which offer "free" roaming for mobile calls, at least for a limited time per stay in a foreign country (often a month). The contention is mostly about data traffic.

    8. Re:Free roaming sounds nice... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In the US, roaming only works if the networks share the same basic technology (GSM for AT&T and T-Mobile; CDMA for Verizon and Sprint). CDMA is a pain in the ass because Verizon and Sprint don't allow people to buy third-party phones and stick a SIM card in them (CDMA SIM cards exist, but US carriers don't use them). The latest phone technology does use SIM cards even on Verizon's phones, but it'll be a while before they are fully compatible.

      Cell towers should probably be run like McDonald's franchises in which they don't compete with each other. This should free up spectrum and get better coverage for everyone. Competition is achieved by turning all cell services into MVNOs.

    9. Re:Free roaming sounds nice... by NostalgiaForInfinity · · Score: 1

      You could use the same argument within a single country. The average person only needs coverage in his home city, right? Why would roaming across France be free when you live in Paris?

      Because the actual cost of roaming within a country is so low that it doesn't make much sense to account for it.

      The actual cost of roaming between countries is a lot higher, so it does make sense to account for it and charge for it.

    10. Re:Free roaming sounds nice... by radarskiy · · Score: 1

      The fact that Andorra and The Vatican are not EU member states.

    11. Re:Free roaming sounds nice... by radarskiy · · Score: 1

      Roaming charges between regions of the same country in fact used to occur in the US.

    12. Re:Free roaming sounds nice... by NostalgiaForInfinity · · Score: 1

      Yes, and when costs got lower, it wasn't worth accounting for them anymore and they disappeared. All without government regulation.

    13. Re:Free roaming sounds nice... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh wow, all without any government regulation?! That proves it, the government is useless.

    14. Re:Free roaming sounds nice... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And now ask yourself who would benefit from calls across Europe costing the same as domestic calls. Hint: It ain't gonna be you with your 2 weeks vacation abroad.

      Europeans have a lot more holiday than that and do travel a lot. Often outside Europe, though.

    15. Re:Free roaming sounds nice... by Yoda222 · · Score: 1

      Andorra and Vatican are not fully part of European Union.

    16. Re:Free roaming sounds nice... by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      They would have to pay roaming fees to the providers who provide the actual network coverage. In practice most of them have some kind of agreement where they simply agree to allow each other's customers to roam without bothering to meter and bill every single megabyte or text message.

      The reason why the EU wants to get rid of roaming charges for consumers is not that it costs the networks nothing, it's that the networks charge far more than it costs them and are not motivated to agree reciprocal deals. Some companies have already set these deals up in anticipation of the new rules, or simply to attract customers. For example my rather cheap 3 contract (3 is the name of the network... It made sense when 3G was the latest and greatest thing) allows me to visit many western European countries without any roaming fees already.

      --
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    17. Re:Free roaming sounds nice... by danbob999 · · Score: 1

      Yes, and when costs got lower, it wasn't worth accounting for them anymore and they disappeared. All without government regulation.

      They wouldn't have disappeared if the market was still dominated by regional companies.

    18. Re:Free roaming sounds nice... by Xest · · Score: 1

      99% of roaming charges were nothing more than pure profit.

      All this does is cuts out the ability to use the somewhat arbitrary national borders within the EU as an excuse for profiteering.

      If someone wants to set up their single mast mobile telco they're more than welcome too, they'll still have to pay the standard rate for connecting people to other networks that covers costs and grants some profit. They just can't charge or be charged exhorbitant profiteering profits now that's all.

      Banning roaming charges doesn't ban providers from charging each other reasonable amounts to connect between networks, the problem is that roaming charges have always been unreasonable made up numbers that bear no resemblance to the actual cost of connecting a call.

    19. Re:Free roaming sounds nice... by danbob999 · · Score: 1

      It is interesting to see how the EU and USA mobile markets evolved differently, which I attribute in part to the different cultural identity in the two places. US Companies see themselevs as US companies and so it was natural for them to dvelop a US network acrosss the entire country. The EU companies were more likly to seethemselves as French or German as were regulators in those countries who would protrct them from foriegn competition. As aresultyou have a very localized network rather than an EU wide network.

      It's just as localized in the US. The US just happens to be a larger country. But go to Canada or Mexico and you will pay exorbitant roaming fees to.

    20. Re:Free roaming sounds nice... by danbob999 · · Score: 1

      You could use the same argument within a single country. The average person only needs coverage in his home city, right? Why would roaming across France be free when you live in Paris?

      Because the actual cost of roaming within a country is so low that it doesn't make much sense to account for it.

      The actual cost of roaming between countries is a lot higher, so it does make sense to account for it and charge for it.

      The only reason why roaming within a single country is low is because you usually don't roam as the operator will setup antennas to cover the whole country. If you are to roam on another operator, there is no reason why it should be more expensive just because it's in another country.

    21. Re:Free roaming sounds nice... by NostalgiaForInfinity · · Score: 1

      They wouldn't have disappeared if the market was still dominated by regional companies.

      Correct. So, market consolidation and increased concentration lowers costs.

    22. Re:Free roaming sounds nice... by danbob999 · · Score: 1

      They wouldn't have disappeared if the market was still dominated by regional companies.

      Correct. So, market consolidation and increased concentration lowers costs.

      Well you could argue that while there are no roaming charges within the US, prices are much higher than in the EU.

    23. Re:Free roaming sounds nice... by NostalgiaForInfinity · · Score: 1

      Well you could argue that while there are no roaming charges within the US, prices are much higher than in the EU.

      You could argue that, but you would be wrong. You can get damned cheap cell phone service in the US if you're willing to go with an MVNO, just like in Europe. European cellular operators also have all sorts of hidden costs that you don't see when you simply go over to their web sites and look at their nominal prices. Finally, you have to put prices in relationship to take-home incomes, which are also considerably lower in Europe.

    24. Re:Free roaming sounds nice... by Registered+Coward+v2 · · Score: 1

      It is interesting to see how the EU and USA mobile markets evolved differently, which I attribute in part to the different cultural identity in the two places. US Companies see themselevs as US companies and so it was natural for them to dvelop a US network acrosss the entire country. The EU companies were more likly to seethemselves as French or German as were regulators in those countries who would protrct them from foriegn competition. As aresultyou have a very localized network rather than an EU wide network.

      It's just as localized in the US. The US just happens to be a larger country. But go to Canada or Mexico and you will pay exorbitant roaming fees to.

      True, but the continental US is about as large as Europe and is also made up of a number of individual states who also jealously guard their rights and powers; but the strong federal system and cultural history of the US made it easier to create one giant roam free marketplace about as large as the total EU market. We do pay through the nose for roaming outside of the US; although years ago Canada only cost an additional $5/month for unlimited calling while there or to there.

      --
      I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
    25. Re:Free roaming sounds nice... by danbob999 · · Score: 1

      Ok what US MVNO offers 120 minutes of talk time (to France, the USA and 99 other destinations), unlimited SMS and 50 MB data for 2 euros/month? Free offers it in France. For 20 euros, they offer unlimited talk and 20GB data. There might be cheaper alternatives in some other countries, I just picked the cheap European operator I know.

    26. Re:Free roaming sounds nice... by danbob999 · · Score: 1

      Electromagnetic spectrum is managed at the federal level in the US. It's managed by individual countries in the EU. That's the main reason why operators are localized to specific countries in the EU, but are not localized to specific states in the US.

    27. Re:Free roaming sounds nice... by NostalgiaForInfinity · · Score: 1

      Ok what US MVNO offers 120 minutes of talk time (to France, the USA and 99 other destinations), unlimited SMS and 50 MB data for 2 euros/month? Free offers it in France

      You mean this? http://mobile.free.fr/ I think your French is a little rusty, and those plans end up being a ton more expensive when all is said and done. Note that in Europe, the existence of these plans is a result of deregulation, not regulation.

      In any case, in the US, Ting and Family Mobile are pretty good deals. If you look around, you can find even cheaper plans, but I don't think it's worth bothering.

    28. Re:Free roaming sounds nice... by danbob999 · · Score: 1

      You mean this? http://mobile.free.fr/ I think your French is a little rusty, and those plans end up being a ton more expensive when all is said and done.

      What's the catch? Can't we get a mobile plan for only 2 euros/month?

      In any case, in the US, Ting and Family Mobile are pretty good deals.

      That's not that cheap. Start at $15 for 100 minutes, 100 text and 100 MB.

    29. Re:Free roaming sounds nice... by Registered+Coward+v2 · · Score: 1

      Electromagnetic spectrum is managed at the federal level in the US. It's managed by individual countries in the EU. That's the main reason why operators are localized to specific countries in the EU, but are not localized to specific states in the US.

      Exactly. the Eu's structure makes it very difficult to enact any EU wide rules and enforce them; thus each country acts in a manner that is most beneficial for it's own interests. There is nothing wrong with that but it results in a patchwork of rules, currencies and industries.

      --
      I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
    30. Re:Free roaming sounds nice... by NostalgiaForInfinity · · Score: 1

      What's the catch? Can't we get a mobile plan for only 2 euros/month?

      The catch is that you automatically switch to very expensive per MB/minute plans, so if you use it at all, you end up paying an arm and a leg. The EU 2 plan by free.fr is a gimmick, not a realistic plan.

      And again, what is the point you're actually trying to make? Was free.fr a service created by regulation or by deregulation?

    31. Re:Free roaming sounds nice... by danbob999 · · Score: 1

      The catch is that you automatically switch to very expensive per MB/minute plans, so if you use it at all, you end up paying an arm and a leg. The EU 2 plan by free.fr is a gimmick, not a realistic plan.

      How is that not reallistic? As long as you don't go over the limit, you are fine. I'd love to have such a cheap plan in my country. 120 minutes is more than what a few of my relatives have. Free SMS and 50 MB are just bonus. If you are a big user, just take the 20 euro plan. I fail to see how this is a gimmick. It's about 1/4 of the price of my country.

      And again, what is the point you're actually trying to make? Was free.fr a service created by regulation or by deregulation?

      By both actually. France regulates the number of providers. They wanted a 4th one so they had one. They are forcing an incumbant (orange) to offer roaming while Free is building its network. The minimum coverage area (mesured in % of the population covered) is also regulated.

    32. Re:Free roaming sounds nice... by NostalgiaForInfinity · · Score: 1

      How is that not reallistic? As long as you don't go over the limit, you are fine

      I have subscribed to this kind of service in Europe: you will go over the limit and it will cost you dearly when you do. You're not reading the fine print (e.g. "vers mobiles").

      By both actually. France regulates the number of providers. They wanted a 4th one so they had one.

      So does the US. That's why we have four providers. What's your point?

      They are forcing an incumbant (orange) to offer roaming while Free is building its network.

      That's because Orange used to be a public utility and monopoly, before France deregulated it. Orange is, in effect, subsidizing those cheap free.fr plans. Again, what's your point?

      If you are a big user, just take the 20 euro plan. I fail to see how this is a gimmick. It's about 1/4 of the price of my country.

      I don't know what you mean by "my country". Do you mean the US?

      I'd love to have such a cheap plan in my country.

      Would you "love to have" the taxes, regulations, and obligations that go along with living in France? Because the whole thing comes as a package. You cannot have US-style taxes, salaries, and economic growth while at the same time having French-style subsidized prices and services.

    33. Re:Free roaming sounds nice... by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      That's true, but what does cost have to do with the price the consumer has to pay?

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    34. Re:Free roaming sounds nice... by NostalgiaForInfinity · · Score: 1

      That's true, but what does cost have to do with the price the consumer has to pay?

      You can see the difference between cost and price by looking at the profit margin, which is public for all mobile operators. Net annual profit margin for Verizon is probably about 5% on average. Competition keeps it down in that range.

    35. Re:Free roaming sounds nice... by danbob999 · · Score: 1

      I have subscribed to this kind of service in Europe: you will go over the limit and it will cost you dearly when you do. You're not reading the fine print (e.g. "vers mobiles").

      I've had many cell phones with less than 120 minutes of talk time. I know what it is. I know how not to go over the limit. I have a separate home phone and work phone. I would still want that plan. There is nothing comparable in the US or Canada that I know of.

      By both actually. France regulates the number of providers. They wanted a 4th one so they had one.

      So does the US. That's why we have four providers. What's your point?

      The US has 4 providers because mostly of market rules. France dictated that there would be a 4th provider. My point was that I was answering your question. You asked wheter Free mobile was the result of regulation or deregulation.

      I don't know what you mean by "my country". Do you mean the US?

      No, Canada.

      Would you "love to have" the taxes, regulations, and obligations that go along with living in France? Because the whole thing comes as a package. You cannot have US-style taxes, salaries, and economic growth while at the same time having French-style subsidized prices and services.

      Why not? Cell phone prices doesn't have much to do with taxes. It's not because of subsidies that you can have a cell phone plan for 2 euros/month in France and not in the US or Canada.

    36. Re:Free roaming sounds nice... by radarskiy · · Score: 1

      "All without government regulation."

      Without government regulation, except for the government regulation. Even now the FCC has to issue things like the Data Roaming Order of 2011 to keep national roaming working.

    37. Re:Free roaming sounds nice... by NostalgiaForInfinity · · Score: 1

      Why not? Cell phone prices doesn't have much to do with taxes. It's not because of subsidies that you can have a cell phone plan for 2 euros/month in France and not in the US or Canada.

      First of all, Canada isn't the US, so I don't see why you keep talking about the US.

      Second, I think we pretty conclusively determined how free.fr can offer those cheap plans: the French government subsidizes them by forcing roaming arrangements on the former state monopoly, Orange, and by having subsidized Orange itself even after it became a private company. That is, free.fr wasn't created by regulation, it was created by a combination of deregulation (good) and crony capitalism (bad).

      Third, that has a lot to do with slow economic growth and high taxes, because the kind of economic dirigisme that lets the French government do popular things like create cheap cell phone plans out of nothing also leads to high taxes and slow growth.

      I have a separate home phone and work phone.

      OK, so you are a privileged upper middle class guy with tons of communications options. And you are whining because government doesn't give you cheaper cell phone service. Do you want a free pony too?

    38. Re:Free roaming sounds nice... by NostalgiaForInfinity · · Score: 1

      That's utterly irrelevant to the point at hand, namely that roaming costs within the same provider disappeared within the US on their own, without regulation.

  2. Nice while it lasted by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Net neutrality is dead, there will be shady dealings and loopholes to kill it.

  3. Not a U-Turn by SuperKendall · · Score: 2

    The bait is always something tasty, until you feel the hook... and find the bait that tempted you wasn't even real.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  4. Re:Not a U-Turn at ALL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Governments always want more money to dispense and always raid a new piggy bank.

  5. Ok, there's only two questions to ask by Opportunist · · Score: 3, Insightful

    How much?
    and
    What MEPs?

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    1. Re:Ok, there's only two questions to ask by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It wasn't MEPs who did this, it was national government MPs.

      The EU has a bicameral legislature just like the US. The lower body is a "house" of MEPs, and the upper body is a "senate" of appointed MPs of the national governments.

      It's the EU "senate" that has proposed these new changes to the directive.

    2. Re:Ok, there's only two questions to ask by Yoda222 · · Score: 1

      It's a group of national government which have decided to overrule the EP. Which ones ? I don't know. But just a possibility. If roaming becomes free, some operators will lose money. And some European operators are partially owned by countries: Orange (France), Deutsche Telekom (Germany), Belgacom/Proximus (Belgium), ... So they may have a reason.

  6. It is Oettinger now. What did you expect? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    This is what happens when Günther Oettinger, a really awful Energy Commissioner from the Barroso times, replaces Neelies Kroes (and Viviane Reding before her) as Commissioner for Digital Economy, both political heavyweights that showed, again and again, that they were willing to fight entrenched interests.

    1. Re:It is Oettinger now. What did you expect? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Indeed, I was looking forward to the free roaming. I live near a border and have to disable roaming because I'm often in the neighboring country. It's a joke to be forced to live without a cell phone in the second decade of the 21th century. But I'm not a rich person who can afford the extra 600-700 euros a month just to please the mobile provider.

      Europe is only free for the free move of capital, no problem there. It's easy to avoid taxes for the wealthy, and the normal middle class can't profit, it's a double win.

      There is also a free move of cheap labors. Big companies are happy with cheap self employed eastern European labors who are not protected by the same social laws as the local middle class. So a law that favors the wealthy, and hurts the middle class? Again a double win!

    2. Re:It is Oettinger now. What did you expect? by Harlequin80 · · Score: 2

      Buy a dual sim mobile. I have one because I have to do a lot of overseas travelling. But for you sitting on a border like that dual sim makes a huge amount of sense.

    3. Re:It is Oettinger now. What did you expect? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And don't forget that he got dumped like a hot potato because in Germany he wasn't tenable anymore (for his apology of a politician having old Nazi ties, no less).

      The European Commission: a dumping ground for corrupt and dubious politicians no one wants at home (Juncker -- helping corporations skirt their due taxes? This whole stinking team he's put together?)

      To me, this whole circus should go to jail for corruption and organized crime.

    4. Re:It is Oettinger now. What did you expect? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      There have been a few proposals recently to abolish SIMs. They were created back in the days of rented carphones so that people could move their phone number and contacts between phones easily. Now, they basically serve the same purpose as a WiFi password. It wouldn't be too difficult to provide the keying material in a QR code or similar so that when you get a new phone you just photograph it and have an app provide it to the baseband processor.

      Carriers are very hostile to this, because if the SIM isn't a physical device there's no constraint on the number that can exist in one phone - you could easily have an app that would select the best rate from a dozen or so pre-pay virtual sims for whatever country you happened to be in.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  7. Re:Not a U-Turn at ALL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Can you provide a link to those 300 pages proving that we're "going to pay and pay"?

    And I doubt those 300 pages are all about net neutrality. Net neutrality is a simple concept. I'd guess that the other 299 pages are about something entirely different.

  8. It's a Kihnspiracy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Or the those french are up to nothing good again.

  9. Next story please by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    > This comes as a U-turn of plans

    Certainly a legal u turn so who the fuck cares lets move on to a more entertaining story. this shit is boring as fuck.

  10. Re:Not a U-Turn at ALL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    The actual rules are only eight pages. The rest is legal justification if the rules are litigated (go to 1:50 in the video):

    Wheeler Interviewed At MWC

  11. Re:Not a U-Turn at ALL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You would have to think that "you're" is spelled "ur" in order to believe something like that.

  12. Re:Not a U-Turn at ALL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The application of the regulation is still very much up in the air. 300 pages and 8 pages are nonsense political numbers thrown out there. It's still very unclear how the big picture will form here. Nobody should trust the FCC until the rules are set in stone. Without a clear set of application rules (or new legislation) what was decided on recently is going to be purely up to whoever is running the FCC at the time. Not a good situation for anybody.

  13. Prove your claims. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I can agree that it doesn't cost a huge amount to allow roaming within a country, but I do not see how it must be expensive to run it inter-country within the EU. That claim there is asserted with the only evidence being that which is assumed: it's expensive because the operators charge more for it.

    1. Re:Prove your claims. by Anne+Thwacks · · Score: 2
      As it is the same telcos providing the service in all countries, why are there any additional costs?

      There is no reason on earth why calling from France Telecom in London to France Telecom in Paris costs more than France telecom in London to France Telecom in Manchester (Or Deutche Telecom for that matter).

      In the case of Hutchinson 3G (a Hongkong company) IT ALREADY DOESNT!

      What you see here is "we have the technology to fleece you" being optimised.

      --
      Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
  14. Privileged Access by harryjohnston · · Score: 1

    I really don't see why privileged access has to be a problem. If there isn't some way of providing it, then either the internet is held down to the least-common-denominator, or everybody has to pay for a level of service that most of us don't need.

    You just have to apply reasonable rules. I think the only ones you really need are that the money paid for privileged access must be used to provide that access, not to subsidize the network as a whole, and that the profit margins must not be excessive. Oh, and perhaps some rules about the minimum base level of service. If there's adequate competition you may not even need to go that far.

    Sure, ISPs could still game the system to some extent. But not enough to be a serious problem.

    1. Re:Privileged Access by JohnStock · · Score: 1

      Because to wont stay regular and privileged for long.. They will move the goalposts to poor and regular... but we'll still pay the premium for the upper tier. We ALL lose.

    2. Re: Privileged Access by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Netherlands actually has full net neutrality. We also have uncapped high speed internet access for little money. No problems there.

      It has affected mobile providers. Before the net neutrality regulation, they all introduced plans to start charging you based on which services you want to use. WhatsApp? Pay us a few euros a month. YouTube access? Pay for that too.
      With a month or so, the government pass a net neutrality law. The mobile providers now just charge per megabyte, and it's quite affordable.

      So it can be done. And Neelie Kroes proved she could do it by lowering the maximum roaming charges every year. Too bad she left before managing to get rid of roaming charges altogether.

    3. Re: Privileged Access by harryjohnston · · Score: 1

      So how do things like Netflix work, if they can't put their boxen inside the local network, and don't have any QoS guarantees? Or, say, an on-line gaming system that needs low latency?

      (And are you sure the government isn't subsidizing access in some way?)

    4. Re:Privileged Access by harryjohnston · · Score: 1

      Not if the rules are enforced. Or if there's enough competition that anyone offering "poor" access to the general internet won't survive for long.

  15. No-one can by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    Can you provide a link to those 300 pages proving that we're "going to pay and pay"?

    No, just like you can't prove that's not the case - because NONE of that is public.

    All you can do is react to past experience when hundreds of pages of regulations are about to affect something that was working quite well.

    And I doubt those 300 pages are all about net neutrality

    Good luck with blind faith in large organizations that do not care about anything but growing themselves. I'm sure it will end well for you.

    Net neutrality is a simple concept.

    It is, isn't it...

    Now you are starting to catch on.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:No-one can by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "No, just like you can't prove that's not the case - because NONE of that is public."

      Ah. A conspiracy theory.

      Well done.

  16. nike air max pas cher formateurs France by cenyajung · · Score: 2

    This will focus the attention of the previous vendors and price breaks will follow. Make sure that you establish return privileges. In that way you can sell additional products in your store Nike Free Run , safe in the knowledge that if they do not sell you simply return them and don't lose a cent. Tip four: get your family involved. If they'll help out during the first few crucial months of operation, you might be able to get a better handle on upcoming payroll expenses. Furthermore, trained family members would be available to step in during times of vacation or sickness, etc. Tip five: review the records and highlight any under-performing products. You may find that certain items outsell others by 2 to 1. Swap out slow selling items with new products and displays during your first few months to test the market. Whilst some items may be slow sellers, remember that you should not gamble too much with your products and displays as you are trying to promote a "convenience" store and people do look for all kinds of odds and ends. Whilst some items simply do not sell enough they need to be there from an overall perspective. Always test to see what sells well. Tip six: implement proven strategies to help boost sales. For instance, place a coupon display right next to the pumps or position hot selling products in readily accessible locations, such as right next to the front doors. Think of what is popular on a seasonal basis - like cooling drinks, which should be placed right inside the front door. Create strategies for some of your top selling products and reap dividends in your balance sheet.

  17. Different EU political instances by staalmannen · · Score: 1

    The EU comission (basically "federal government") and EU parlament have voted for. It is stuck at the council of ministers (basically the second chamber representing the national governments). It is very popular for national politicians to use EU as a scape goat, but here the blame is on them.

  18. "I love capitalism" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    https://iheartcapitalism.files.wordpress.com/2007/01/capitalism_flyer.png

  19. Follow the money... by sydbarrett74 · · Score: 1

    Hmmm, I wonder which MEP's were paid off, and how much.

    --
    'He who has to break a thing to find out what it is, has left the path of wisdom.' -- Gandalf to Saruman