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New Evidence Strengthens NSA Ties To Equation Group Malware

An anonymous reader writes: When researchers from Kaspersky Lab presented the Equation Group espionage malware, many in the security community were convinced it was part of an NSA operation. Now, Kaspersky has released new evidence that only strengthens those suspicions. In a code sample, they found a string named BACKSNARF_AB25, which happens to be the name of a project in the NSA's Tailored Access Operations. Further, when examining the metadata on the malware files, they found the modification timestamps were almost always consistent with an 8-5 workday in the UTC-3 or UTC-4 timezones, consistent with work based in the eastern United States. The authors also tended to work Monday through Friday, and not on the weekends, suggesting a large, organized development team. "Whereas before the sprawling Equation Drug platform was known to support 35 different modules, Kaspersky has recently unearthed evidence there are 115 separate plugins. The architecture resembles a mini operating system with kernel- and user-mode components alike."

129 comments

  1. Boy am I glad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I am glad our best and brightest are better than their best and brightest... keeping us safe from cyber-terrorism is a huge priority.

    1. Re:Boy am I glad by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

      Except we're getting caught and they aren't.

      Who's cool now?

      --
      It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
    2. Re:Boy am I glad by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      Except we're getting caught and they aren't.

      Doesn't seem to matter. Business is good.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    3. Re:Boy am I glad by plopez · · Score: 1

      Seriously this is sloppy work. Esp. if the dates and ties also correlate to Federal holidays. Haven't they ever heard of scheduled build jobs? Pick a random time in a 24 hour range. Also make sure to cover weekends and holidays.

      --
      putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
    4. Re:Boy am I glad by countach · · Score: 1

      Either it's sloppy work, or a devilishly clever band of Russian hackers. You choose.

  2. Re:Kaspersky Lab by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just because Putin might benefit from this information doesn't mean that it is made up.
    Since Putin benefits from the rest of the world distrusting USA, does that mean that NSA just is a Russian puppet organization too?

  3. A few embedded strings and timestamps? by JoeyRox · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Seems like very weak evidence to me, and certainly not a "smoking gun" claimed in the referenced article.

    1. Re:A few embedded strings and timestamps? by Bonzoli · · Score: 1

      I expect some chechen rebels to confess to helping the NSA very soon. Smoking gun, a snow plow, and a pretty girl.

    2. Re:A few embedded strings and timestamps? by ve3oat · · Score: 1, Informative

      Unless I am mistaken, the Washington, USA, area runs on UTC-5 when on Eastern Standard Time and UTC-4 when on Eastern Daylight Time; never UTC-3 unless someone is working very early hours. So it seems like weak evidence indeed!

    3. Re: A few embedded strings and timestamps? by afidel · · Score: 2

      I was about to pay the exact same thing, only Newfoundland and a few Caribbean islands are UTC -3. It was those canuckistani's I tell you.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    4. Re:A few embedded strings and timestamps? by MiniMike · · Score: 1

      ...never UTC-3 unless someone is working very early hours. So it seems like weak evidence indeed!

      AFAIK working early doesn't change your timezone, unless you're a pilot or long-distance driver (if it did I probably would have lapped my office a few times by now).

      UTC-3 seems to only cover part of Greenland and Brazil, both well-known hotbeds of hacker activity. I suspect that the timezone information is as accurate as info found in random strings in the malware (BACKSNARF_AB25: darn it, time to change the combination on my luggage again...).

    5. Re:A few embedded strings and timestamps? by StikyPad · · Score: 5, Insightful

      What the summary said was that the timestamps are consistent with an 8-5 day in those time zones, not that the timestamps came from those timezones. Timestamps aren't UTC anything -- they're milliseconds since epoch (generally), and the OS converts on the fly when displaying. I can't speak for the NSA, but core hours are 10-3 for many government workers, and many people go in to the office early to beat traffic. Also, the NSA is under the DoD, and DoD tends to get an early start. All of that is consistent with what one would expect to see.

      And to address the GP, the odds of finding a string that matches a codeword, especially a unique codeword, are very slim. Probably millions to one. You're not going to find, say, "XKEYSCORE" in Microsoft or Apple source code. That's the most convincing evidence -- the timestamp stuff is just icing.

      I expect to see future exploits released with standardized timestamps and obfuscated strings.

    6. Re:A few embedded strings and timestamps? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What kind of evidence would you expect? An NSA employee signature in the code? Someone from the NSA confessing? Burden of proof when it comes to the NSA is the other way around. They can go fuck themselves until they have proven themselves innocent.

    7. Re:A few embedded strings and timestamps? by clonehappy · · Score: 3

      You're not going to find, say, "XKEYSCORE" in Microsoft or Apple source code.

      Ha, are you really sure about that?

    8. Re:A few embedded strings and timestamps? by StikyPad · · Score: 1

      No. ;)

    9. Re:A few embedded strings and timestamps? by tlhIngan · · Score: 1

      What the summary said was that the timestamps are consistent with an 8-5 day in those time zones, not that the timestamps came from those timezones. Timestamps aren't UTC anything -- they're milliseconds since epoch (generally), and the OS converts on the fly when displaying. I can't speak for the NSA, but core hours are 10-3 for many government workers, and many people go in to the office early to beat traffic. Also, the NSA is under the DoD, and DoD tends to get an early start. All of that is consistent with what one would expect to see.

      And to address the GP, the odds of finding a string that matches a codeword, especially a unique codeword, are very slim. Probably millions to one. You're not going to find, say, "XKEYSCORE" in Microsoft or Apple source code. That's the most convincing evidence -- the timestamp stuff is just icing.

      I expect to see future exploits released with standardized timestamps and obfuscated strings.

      I find it very circumstantial and more akin to fitting the evidence to the crime. I mean, are the only software developers who work normal business hours on normal workdays in the Eastern timezone all working for the NSA? I find that extremely hard to believe, even more so when you consider that a lot of developers do work on the east coast (sorry, software development is not an exclusively west coast thing).

      Even a symbol like "Backsnarf" sounds like something that could plausibly be used in malware to indicate reverse snarfing of whatever it is.

      Ditto XKEYCODE. Sounds like something someone might call a keyboard map - either the mapping driver or a keymap.

    10. Re:A few embedded strings and timestamps? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    11. Re:A few embedded strings and timestamps? by CanadianMacFan · · Score: 1

      Well, the US was quite happy to use to claim that the coding style was similar so the North Koreans hacked Sony so they've set the bar so low for what "smoking guns" are going to be.

    12. Re:A few embedded strings and timestamps? by JoeyRox · · Score: 2

      Seems to me that the odds a hacker group would intentionally embed a codeword attributed to another hacker organization to cover his tracks are higher than the odds that the NSA accidentally embedded the same strings in multiple exploits. That's on a relative odds basis. On an absolute basis the odds for either seem rather low and thus IMO the evidence in the article is still very weak.

    13. Re:A few embedded strings and timestamps? by Gavagai80 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I mean, are the only software developers who work normal business hours on normal workdays in the Eastern timezone all working for the NSA?

      Very few regular businesses in the eastern USA hire hackers to attack others, so most hackers have much more varied time allocations reflecting that they do it after work / on weekends or are unemployed. The hours strongly suggest employees, so what other employer seems likely to you?

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      This space intentionally left blank
    14. Re:A few embedded strings and timestamps? by jklovanc · · Score: 1

      Prove you are not a serial murderer. If someone has the means to do something it is very difficult to prove they did not do it. That is why the burden of proof is always on the prosecutor to prove a suspect did a crime and not on the suspects to prove they did not do it.

    15. Re:A few embedded strings and timestamps? by Gavagai80 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I'd expect the odds of the NSA accidentally embedding the same strings in multiple exploits to be around 100%. They're humans, they're lazy, they copy stuff and they want readable code. Why wouldn't they?

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      This space intentionally left blank
    16. Re:A few embedded strings and timestamps? by BitZtream · · Score: 1

      ... Unless it was put there on purpose, to mislead you into thinking ... it was the NSA.

      Seriously, this takes 0 work to make it appear to be the NSA, a 5 minute script could do this to anything, based on the minute level of detail you seem to think is sufficient.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    17. Re:A few embedded strings and timestamps? by BitZtream · · Score: 1

      XKEYCODE can be found in a very large OSS software package and was there before the NSA even imagined using the letters for themselves.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    18. Re: A few embedded strings and timestamps? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Fitting the evidence to the crime": From what I can tell, that is all police agencies do now.

    19. Re:A few embedded strings and timestamps? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh, so we are using the same rules for the NSA as for normal people? Well then, I'd like to review all records stored on their servers and their paper archives to begin with. Let's have a couple of (we'll probably need a few thousand) independent reviewers go through the material. Then we can talk again.

    20. Re:A few embedded strings and timestamps? by Nyder · · Score: 2

      Unless I am mistaken, the Washington, USA, area runs on UTC-5 when on Eastern Standard Time and UTC-4 when on Eastern Daylight Time; never UTC-3 unless someone is working very early hours. So it seems like weak evidence indeed!

      Funny how this is weak evidence, but stuff like this is what they used to say North Korea hacked Sony.

      --
      Be seeing you...
    21. Re:A few embedded strings and timestamps? by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      Well, I certainly have been guilty of trashing a few DB-9 plugs in my day.

      RS-232 was never my favorite protocol.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    22. Re:A few embedded strings and timestamps? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...until they have proven themselves innocent.

      Good thing you're not in charge if that's your standard.

    23. Re:A few embedded strings and timestamps? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Those timestamps are outside the continental US for an 8-5 job. Kapersky is a Russian organization and Russia has recently enjoyed trying to poke America in the eye in any way they can.

    24. Re:A few embedded strings and timestamps? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Your honor, I have a document here that proves that I was somewhere else during the murders. Unfortunately I can't show it since it's secret...". Trivial if I can do it like NSA does it.

    25. Re:A few embedded strings and timestamps? by HiThere · · Score: 1

      I'd guess it as weak, but not really weak. Sort of "reasonable ground for suspicion", but clearly not "reasonable grounds for belief".

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    26. Re:A few embedded strings and timestamps? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What stuff did they even release against North Korea?

    27. Re: A few embedded strings and timestamps? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      except when America funded and stoked civil war in almost all of their allies. Except that time, Russia poked into Americas eyes.

      America is such a nice country fucking up both Iraq and Syria and establishing one of the nastiest things this globe has ever seen. And dont tell me ISIS was not Americas child. Sure as hell it has been set up by your nice ally Saudi-slave-Womaraba. And most of the money and weapons havbe found their way to the nastyballs.

      Yeah, such nasty Russkies !!! Trying to uphold the rule of the Baath party, were women actually had some rights. Nasty, nasty Russkies.

  4. Timezones? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Further, when examining the metadata on the malware files, they found the modification timestamps were almost always consistent with an 8-5 workday in the UTC-3 or UTC-4 timezones, consistent with work based in the eastern United States

    Um, the US is on UTC -5:00 (ET) through UTC -8:00 (PT). My money is on those pesky Greenlandic uber-hackers.

    1. Re:Timezones? by skr95062 · · Score: 1

      Further, when examining the metadata on the malware files, they found the modification timestamps were almost always consistent with an 8-5 workday in the UTC-3 or UTC-4 timezones, consistent with work based in the eastern United States

      Um, the US is on UTC -5:00 (ET) through UTC -8:00 (PT). My money is on those pesky Greenlandic uber-hackers.

      Um, the UTC is -4:00 (EST) through UTC -7:00 (PST) when on Standard Time. The UTC offset is -5:00 through -8:00 when the US is on Daylight Time. The exception to this is the majority of Arizona which doesn't change at all.

    2. Re:Timezones? by skr95062 · · Score: 1

      Um, the US is on UTC -5:00 (ET) through UTC -8:00 (PT). My money is on those pesky Greenlandic uber-hackers.

      Um, the UTC is -4:00 (EST) through UTC -7:00 (PST) when on Standard Time. The UTC offset is -5:00 through -8:00 when the US is on Daylight Time. The exception to this is the majority of Arizona which doesn't change at all.

      Whoops...Standard is -5 through -8 and Daylight is -4 through -7, my bad.

  5. Scenario by koan · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Hypothetical Scenario: I work as a coder for the NSA, I work with an extremely talented group, we code the latest, most aggressive malware available.

    We make the Russians look like Girl Scouts.

    How much do you think they pay me?

    How much could I make selling the stuff I code at the NSA to various "businesses".

    Does anyone in that position believe in nationalism?

    --
    "If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
    1. Re:Scenario by mwvdlee · · Score: 1

      How much will you be dead and unable-to-ever-be-burried if the NSA finds out?

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    2. Re:Scenario by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How much could I make selling the stuff I code at the NSA to various "businesses".

      Not as much as NSA gets.

      You know, NSA do poke their fingers into commercial interest.

    3. Re:Scenario by koan · · Score: 4, Funny

      As much as Snowden is.

      --
      "If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
    4. Re:Scenario by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yea, werent there a case where a guy that used to work for NSA, a coder of somesort used a few 0day exploits to take like 200k usd or somesuch from a bank, and later was found killed by a doubletap to the face in a hotel room in some island nation, seychelles or bahamas or someshit like that?

      it was in some news like 6-9ish months ago, dont remember the details tbh...

    5. Re:Scenario by davydagger · · Score: 2
      Assuming the NSA finds out. If your the best the NSA has, and you know all their systems because your the guy who's basicly the NSA, who exists to find you?

      Snowden was the guy. He didn't get caught until he outed himself to give the leaks credibility. Of course if he was doing espionage he just would have kept is mouth shut and accepted money.

      What is more likely, is that NSA contractors have jobs moonlighting for large corporations as intellegence officers an simply use NSA resources at work for their corporate patrons. If they outright gave them the code, it would make themselves fairly worthless as consultants. This matches up to teh %60 of espionage being economic. I.E. Corporations pay NSA employees for use of NSA resources. It also calls into question the technology "invented here" meme, which just might have been, "invented somewhere else, but stolen by the NSA and given to private partners".

      Combine this with the fact the best "security" i.e. hackers working for the government, are for-profit blackhats that get caught and flip as part of a plea deal.

    6. Re:Scenario by StikyPad · · Score: 4, Insightful

      How much do you think they pay me?

      You can look at the careers on their website. Exploit Engineer pays $64,923 to $96,931. I'm sure that matches up with a GS payscale number somewhere, but I'm too lazy to map it.

      How much could I make selling the stuff I code at the NSA to various "businesses".

      Not much, or at least not for very long. You can bet your ass you sign an ironclad NDA, and if anyone's going to know whether you violated that, it's the NSA.

      Does anyone in that position believe in nationalism?

      Most of them, yes. Employment is actually pretty competitive, and people don't become government employees for the money. Job security, maybe, but the money is usually below average.

    7. Re:Scenario by NotQuiteReal · · Score: 2

      Actually the money is usually above average.

      --
      This issue is a bit more complicated than you think.
    8. Re:Scenario by Noryungi · · Score: 5, Insightful

      My dear friend, you do not understand how these things work.

      You work at NSA, you are always using the latest, newest, biggest, baddest, sweetest technology ever devised by men. You literally have computer companies begging you to buy their stuff. For a lot of these people (heck, that may even include me) that is motivation enough.

      AND, if you are discreet about it, you can even be privy to potentially very lucrative a lot of state secrets. Or even personal secrets, who knows?. Obviously, if Snowden gave us something, it is the knowledge that NSA is not very good at information compartmentalization...

      But here is the kicker: if you ever decide to leave the NSA, for retirement or otherwise, the private sector (at least the US private sector) will greet you with open arms and pay you a sh*tload of money to work as a consultant or senior manager. And we are talking about a SH*TLOAD of money, conflict of interests be damned. You are now one of the big boys, kid, enjoy your (semi-)retirement.

      No need to betray US interests, no need to reveal super secret information: you are NSA. You are above the law. Just leave your morals at the door, please.

      --
      The right to offend is far more important than the right not to be offended. (Rowan Atkinson)
    9. Re:Scenario by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 2

      Snowden was an IT guy. A flunky.

      Sorry to break it to all you other IT guys. He was not a top realm coder. Very few 'IT guys' are top realm coder.

    10. Re:Scenario by koan · · Score: 1

      NSA do poke their fingers into commercial interest.

      Personally I think the majority of the work they do is related to finance in some fashion.

      --
      "If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
    11. Re:Scenario by koan · · Score: 1

      You don't have the clearance for this thread.

      --
      "If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
    12. Re:Scenario by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Does anyone in that position believe in nationalism?

      If I didn't believe that most of them do, I wouldn't be so frightened.

      There's no one capable of doing more evil than those who sincerely believe that they're doing good.

    13. Re: Scenario by DigiShaman · · Score: 2

      He also had the acumen to navigate the situation with relative "competence" and remain alive to spill the beans. I say that because it's arguable whether or not he should have done what he did. Never the less, he wears a stiff gray hat. Even the most intelligent coders and IT folk couldn't pull off what he did, or have the balls to do it!

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    14. Re:Scenario by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Obviously, if Snowden gave us something, it is the knowledge that NSA is not very good at information compartmentalization...

      Could be the NSA is very good at compartmentalization...But perhaps those working a Snowden's place of employment, Booz Allen Hamilton, aren't quite as thorough. Like, maybe a certain VP whose had an interesting career before coming to Booz Allen. Of course, this is all wild ass speculation.

    15. Re:Scenario by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I see [---Redacted---] no [---Redacted---] problem here.

    16. Re:Scenario by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/the-cia-burglar-who-went-rogue-36739394/?no-ist

    17. Re:Scenario by plopez · · Score: 1

      only because the private sector average is eroding rather rapidly. It was at one time higher pay in the private sector but thanks to 30 years of economic policy that has changed.

      --
      putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
    18. Re:Scenario by plopez · · Score: 1

      The best hardware, leanest algorithms, most interesting problems, and probably the only group of people within 200 miles that gets your jokes.

      --
      putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
    19. Re:Scenario by HiThere · · Score: 1

      At a guess:
      Almost ALL of them start out believing fervently in US nationalism. They they spend a few decades in internal bureaucracy and become both cynical and disgusted. Some of them become more disgusted, and others become more cynical.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    20. Re:Scenario by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "How much do you think they pay me?" Assloads! when you add in retirement and the option to become a private contractor super assloads. You also subject yourself to 8 hour lie detector tests, background checks, emotional evaluations, security clearance, character references.
      If you cross them ...
        "Binney was cleared of wrongdoing after three interviews with FBI agents beginning in March 2007, but one morning in July 2007, a dozen agents armed with rifles appeared at his house, one of whom entered the bathroom and pointed his gun at Binney, still towelling off from a shower. In that raid, the FBI confiscated a desktop computer, disks, and personal and business records" He lost his clearance and is his business.

    21. Re:Scenario by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Plastering together some modules using zero day vulnerabilites that others bought/found isn't a top realm coder.

    22. Re:Scenario by Fire_Wraith · · Score: 1

      Compared to the average person in the USA, maybe.

      Compared to the average person in your same field, with your same skills, as an expert coder/hacker/etc? Not even close.

      Federal jobs are great if you're a lower skilled worker, whether office or otherwise (although good luck getting those jobs, as many of the ones the government used to have are now contracted out to save money). The higher your skills, and the more in demand your position, the worse the pay disparity with your counterparts in the private sector get.

      Now, that's not to say there aren't necessarily other benefits, but it's hardly something that you're going to get rich on as a skilled exploit coder.

    23. Re: Scenario by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      BINGO. 99% of computer folks, including developers, would have been nabbed while boarding a plane to moscow. Or their travel plan would have been betrayed through their own actions. They would have plotted the escape through Whatsapp or something.

      Most tech guys with secret knowledge need a Minder. Recently spotted one from Raytheon with his minder. Poor geek boy of age 45. The Minder was actually sticking out of the crowd like a police man, as he wore a semi-uniform.

      Snowden has steel balls and made almost no mistake so far. I actually do think he has the intelligence it takes to be a great software engineer. If he had not, they would have caught him by now.

    24. Re: Scenario by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What a boring concept "all about money". Did you ever consider some folks are in this because they want to build top notch stuff instead of the mediocre Dreck you are forced to build in commerical settings qm.

      In the defence and government sector you can push the limits of your trade and some people are keen to be masters of what they do.

      Now, well, lets dont discuss the moral aspect of all this.

  6. Re:Kaspersky Lab by spacepimp · · Score: 1

    Lets hear for the pulling shit out of our collective asses system! The same goes for any software made by any company in the world... Unless you can see the source and it is open you can't but hope. Why not say it is Snowden who did this so he can sell botnets to Putin. If you have a shred of evidence that Putin has backdoored kaspersky then bring it to light.

  7. Hahahahaha. What a joke. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Do me a favour. Spooks putting strings identifying their top secret programme by name into malware? Jesus Christ you people are gullible.

  8. Re:Kaspersky Lab by umghhh · · Score: 1

    now when you mentioned it - NSA did not prevent anything so far unless we believe what they say and ignore available evidence. It did however managed to motivate other nations too look closer at alternatives where that make sense. Here we go then - Putin's fault again and NSA is his puppet!!! Come to think of it, maybe it is other way around - they invented Putin and jihad to increase their budget??? Either way Putin is firmly in the equation that describes NSA reality.

  9. How leet can they be? by wiredlogic · · Score: 4, Funny

    If they don't bother to change the timestamps to 03/13/37.

    --
    I am becoming gerund, destroyer of verbs.
    1. Re:How leet can they be? by SQLGuru · · Score: 1

      Because there's no month 13 (in the Julian calendar) and no day 37 (again, Julian) and I would suspect a lot of hackers don't use the mm/dd/yy notation but the yy/mm/dd notation.

    2. Re:How leet can they be? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You aren't l33t enough if you can't hack the calendar and have a 13th month.

    3. Re:How leet can they be? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      OK sir, You find the joke , but broke your sarcasm detector in the process.

    4. Re:How leet can they be? by plopez · · Score: 1

      why not 6/31/xxxx ? or 316xxxx

      That would give the security guys a headache.

      --
      putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
  10. Re:Hahahahaha. What a joke. by mwvdlee · · Score: 1

    I was thinking just about the same thing.
    Why don't hackers call their projects "8d 7d 6c 05" or "33 02 ba 9c" in source code constants?
    Why would they even include any non-essential things in the code at all?

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  11. And code written on Mondays sucked by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1

    Rats hoisted by their own profiling petard.

    --
    (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
  12. Re:Hahahahaha. What a joke. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    > Do me a favour. Spooks putting strings identifying their top secret programme by name [...]

    The alternative is thrilling too: malware authors knowing the names of top-secret NSA programmes (I assume this malware was hacked together pre-Snowden)? Hmmm.

    I don't know the name of the razor to apply here. But it's a hell of a razor, for sure.

  13. Re:Kaspersky Lab by Bonzoli · · Score: 1

    No, just hope a believe. HOPE you know this guy, documented here; Belief is just the nicest of fellows. Just like I hope and believe the NSA isn't doing something they shouldn't, until someone outed them we had never heard of before.

    I do not think bringing Snowden into the example really works on this one, as he did actually steal classified info and post it to the internet/news, no belief needed. I do hope he gets a fair and public trial though, but I believe he will never make it to court.

  14. Re:Hahahahaha. What a joke. by Bonzoli · · Score: 2

    Kind of like a PHD student security programmer, accidentally putting in heartbleed in the middle of Xmas when it was automagically accepted in to ssh code, because we do not teach bounds checking to PHD students.
    Hope and Belief.

  15. What the NSA will do from now on by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    is to brand all timestamps and other traces in the malware, so as to implicate Russia and China, or whatever country or organization happens to be on the agenda.

  16. and how much collateral damage? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How many of our own critical systems were offlined by these viruses when they got out in the world?
    I mean, people have been struggling with this for years - google "fanny.bmp"

  17. Let's roll our own Time Zones too! by Minwee · · Score: 1

    Maybe someone needs to look up just what parts of the world actually use UTC-0300.

    1. Re:Let's roll our own Time Zones too! by clonehappy · · Score: 0

      So, you work at a government contractor on the East Coast (VA/DC/MD anyone...nah no gov't contractors there). These type of workers start early AM, before most people are awake for the day. 7-8 AM start times are not unheard of. This would coincide with what? A 9-5 workday in UTC-0300 or UTC-0400 you say? No, can't be. The people writing the article really, truly meant the elite uber-hackers of Greenland and Nova Scotia.

    2. Re:Let's roll our own Time Zones too! by Minwee · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "[...] modification timestamps were almost always consistent with an 8-5 workday in the UTC-3 or UTC-4 timezones"

      When writing an article of this sort your goal should be to _explain your position_, not to create a math problem which, if solved in the correct manner, suggests what your position could be. If the authors wanted to point to a 7-3 work day in UTC-5, they should have simply said so instead of going out of their way to state something quite different.

      It's not hard.

      Here, it could look something like this:

      "[...] modification timestamps were almost always consistent with a 7-3 workday in the US Eastern timezone (UTC-5), allowing for standard Daylight Savings changes as observed in Virginia, DC and Maryland"

      It should not look like this:

      "[...] modification timestamps were almost always consistent with an 8 PM - 5 AM workday in the UTC+9 time zone, showing that this was clearly the work of North Koreans with insomnia"

      Do you see the difference?

  18. Re:Hahahahaha....But Wait! by Bob_Who · · Score: 0

    I was thinking just about the same thing.
    Why don't hackers call their projects "8d 7d 6c 05" or "33 02 ba 9c" in source code constants?
    Why would they even include any non-essential things in the code at all?

    Remember nimda virus ? (thats admin backwards)

      NIMDA was a polymorphic plague of a virus that hit out network right after 9/11/2001.

    It would write itself all over every file on the disk drive until the drive was full and everything came to a screeching halt. It exploited the NT web service that was active by group policy default on client boxes with NT and or Win 2000. Anyway, our software engineers looked inside the Nimda.dll and there was some jihad "Death to America, Death to Israel" crap commented right into the file!!

    I'm sure that was the NSA's earlier work, as they took over most domestic networks just to be on the safe side....

  19. Re:Kaspersky Lab by Noryungi · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I am not too worried about Putin.

    What I am worried about is this: the Equation malware was used years ago. We know these guys are good at what they do. Very good.

    NSA has been working on that stuff since the 1950s -- that's 65 years of experience, folks, and they have been big computer users since day ONE -- heck even before day one, if you count Bletchley Park and stuff like the cracking of Red, Purple and JN cyphers.

    So, we are talking about an organization that has huge experience in cracking systems and crypto, and the enormous budget to support its activities.

    So: what have they been producing between Equation and, let's say, Stuxnet, and today?

    Equation was -- from what I understand -- fairly Windows specific. What have they got now? The stuff coming out of all these not-so-funny super top secret projects?

    Here is a hint: combine stuff like Heartbleed (OpenSSL), ShellShock, stuff that lingered in code bases for decades before being found out, maybe other stuff such as a few rumors about OpenSSH backdoors (remember those?) and the "let me install myself cosily in your HDD BIOS where you cannot dislodge me" capabilities of Equation and, presto! No one is safe from the prying eyes of NSA anymore.

    That's the kind of things that makes you lose sleep at night. At least, I do lose sleep over it. Georges Orwell had nothing on these guys.

    What if you are only running open-source? Vulnerable. Audited open-source? They have 100 times the manpower of the best programming teams out there. Heck, they may even have inflitrated these projects in the first place!

    And don't forget one last things: the guys are masters of misdirection. NSA and GCHQ and everyone in between said for years that Enigma was safe to use, even after the nd of WWII. It's extremely simple for these people to say (unofficially, of course) "Drats! This guy is using open source! Foiled again! Damn you open source programmers!! Damn you all to hell!!!", all the while exploiting Linux/BSD machines as easily as "1-2-3". And we know they like subtle.

    So, here is the question: what do they have, right now, that we don't know about? Think about that for a second.

    --
    The right to offend is far more important than the right not to be offended. (Rowan Atkinson)
  20. Timezone silliness by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Lots of folks above posting about how the eastern US isn't in TZ UTC-3. If you RTF summary more carefully, they're talking about code timestamps being consistent with 8-5 UTC-3, which is also consistent with 7-4 UTC-4, or 6-3 UTC-5.

    The company I work for (UTC-6) routinely has folks coming in as early as 6, with quite a few coming in between 7 and 8, just so they can beat the rush hours. Yes, even coders.

    1. Re:Timezone silliness by arth1 · · Score: 1

      Typically, you won't see the timestamps of when people worked, but when the builds were run.

      It doesn't point anywhere, because there's no telling when companies run their builds. Some run nightly builds, others continuous builds.

    2. Re:Timezone silliness by ebyrob · · Score: 1

      > Typically, you won't see the timestamps of when people worked

      Because programmer's worth any kind of salt don't manually check-in (commit) their own changes?

    3. Re:Timezone silliness by arth1 · · Score: 1

      They check in the source code, not the object files.
      The object files won't have the time stamp of the commit of a source file, but the timestamp of when they were created by a build.

  21. Recall the Linux Back door attempt by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    If you remember when some agent broke into a Linux source repository and added a disguised backdoor attack?

    if ((options == (__WCLONE|__WALL)) && (current->uid = 0))
                    retval = -EINVAL;

    https://freedom-to-tinker.com/blog/felten/the-linux-backdoor-attempt-of-2003/

    Effectively letting them get root, if they passed those flags into the wait4 call.

    1. Re:Recall the Linux Back door attempt by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm very anal when it comes to CONSTANT==variable as opposed to variable==CONSTANT. I like to think I would have caught this...

  22. Re:Kaspersky Lab by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hey, you know that Bletchley Park isn't located quite in US, right?

  23. Re:Kaspersky Lab by Noryungi · · Score: 1

    Hey, you know the UK government shared all the secrets of Bletchley Park with the US government, right?

    --
    The right to offend is far more important than the right not to be offended. (Rowan Atkinson)
  24. Re:Kaspersky Lab by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So, here is the question: what do they have, right now, that we don't know about?

    What do you mean? The known unknowns or the unknown unknowns?

    captcha: awesome

  25. BACKSNARF_AB25 = signed confession by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    It includes the name of the program, as known from the Snowden documents, so its a SIGNED CONFESSION.

    1. Re:BACKSNARF_AB25 = signed confession by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      With a name like BACKSNARF, it sounds more like an invention by a super-intelligent mouse and his dimwitted driend.

    2. Re:BACKSNARF_AB25 = signed confession by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Forgot to check the spelling. Friend, not driend.

  26. But, In the End, We need by BoRegardless · · Score: 0

    Our NSA had damn well be better than Putin's and LiKeqiang's or all of us in the US are going to be irretrievably harmed.

  27. Planted? by jklovanc · · Score: 0

    1. Fake the time stamps to look lile eastern US
    2. Add a well known NSA project name to the code
    3. "Leak" information about these issues.
    4. Profit

    Could this information be a plant to point the finger at the NSA?

    1. Re:Planted? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Only that this malware has been in kaspersky hand for a while and they have been at it trying to decipher the modules. This is not planted. The cats out of bag. They still have to reverse the 100's of modules for this malware! We have seen NOTHING yet.

      I expect this kind of thing embedding itself into

      * BIOS
      * Chipsets
      * HDD
      * Phone firmwares (especially IP phones)
      * Tv's, Monitors
      * Cell phones...

      Bottom line: Nothing is safe from them. I rather trust putin yes. Go putin!

    2. Re:Planted? by Bonzoli · · Score: 1

      I personally liked the kronos amiga virus that installed itself in the clockbios, so it survived reboots.

  28. So when did WE become the Nazis? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So what are you saying there? That we're the Nazi enemy now to be spied on like in the second world war?

    Looking through the project names, I suspect the FREE* ones are all open source related. FOX* are maybe firefox attacks?
    EFFABLELAMBDA, EFF? DARK* could be darknet attacks.

    There's a much more indepth discussion about EquationGroup malware here:
    http://www.wikileaks-forum.com/nsa/332/how-omnipotent-hackers-tied-to-nsa-hid-for-14-yearsand-were-found-at-last/33191/

    Kaspersky Lab managed to register some of the attack domains as they expired and collect the data from old attacks. These domains are registered with US based Domains By Proxy, LLC. So if it was NOT official they should be easy to catch simply because they bought and paid and renewed the attack domains used!

    e.g. standardsandpraiserepurpose[.]com was one of the attack domains and is registered with Domains By Proxy

    1. Re:So when did WE become the Nazis? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So what are you saying there? That we're the Nazi enemy now to be spied on like in the second world war?

      That seems to be the NSA attitude toward the world...

      What is good for the goose is good for the gander?

      Would that be too "fair" ? Too much karma? Too fitting of a fate for them?

      I find it the opposite. If you spend your life spying on other people, when someone decides to spy on you, is that not poetic justice?

      It would be criminal and unfair if people didn't spy on them. Of course people should watch what the NSA is doing.

      And of course the NSA should be aware of this, or they are hopelessly incompetent.

      I am amazed you are so naive :)

      The U.S. "became" "the Nazis" right from the start actually, as far as eugenics and U.S. companies traiding with Hitler.

      Not quite "kill all the Jews" but Hitler's team was inspired by U.S. scientists with Rockefeller and Carnegie foundation funds, and top universities, working on eugenics.

      Companies want "efficient" workers, don't you know? Politicians want "less crime" don't you know? Bad genes should be eliminated, is not an idea just limited to Nazis.

      IBM was happy to sell tabulating machines to Hitler.

      And it was all done in the name of "world peace."

      There is evidence the "war to end all wars" was pre-planned ahead of time for some players, and mostly a matter of business and expanding government powers.

      I am not suggesting the Holocaust did not happen, I am insisting people in various countries profitted before, during, and after various wars. Such that if they were not in on some scheme, they certainly looked the other way, kept their mouths shut, traded with "the enemy" during the war, and did not care either way about anything except they were still making money.

      It is not conspiracy theory to suggest businesses (and U.S. businesses) don't care much about any particular politics; they do like money though. They could care less if there is a war or two going on.

      It is not wild to suggest universities who are committed to "education" seek to eliminate "unfit" people from the population.

      No different than vaccines, really. Just happens to be a bit more thorough, that certain groups of human beings are a virus.

      Nothing new, really..."we" have been the Nazis for a long time, for certain definitions of "we"

      Eugenics pre-dates Hitler.

      He took it to another level, in a specific direction, sure. He did not invent the idea or the science. That was already going on in the U.S. -- still is, I assume, to various degrees.

      Where did it come from? I would not imply the U.S. and Universities and U.S. businesses were the only ones with those ideas...just "we" is a large group of people...

    2. Re:So when did WE become the Nazis? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The U.S. and U.K. governments have been intimately tied together for a long time...

      I am not sure there is much distinction, at certain levels.

      Many things are international.

      I find it hard to believe U.K. businesses and schools also did not have "Nazi ties" or similar aspirations (to a lesser degree).

      Much of U.S. education has international roots, that was imported to the U.S. from the U.K. and elsewhere...

      It would not surprise me one bit, various U.K. universities have/had ties to eugenics and thus, perhaps indirectly, to Nazis...

      "we" is a very big word :) "the U.S." and "the U.K." are very big groups of people :)

      yes, they both literally are/were "the Nazis" to some extent, from a business point of view.

      The first rule of business during a war is sell to both sides and come out ahead financially, regardless of who "wins." You may have to scale back if caught and there is public outcry, but you want to diversify and not have any risks, that if one side loses, you are SOL.

      From a business point of view, having Nazi ties before, during, and after wars is just common sense, diversification 101. A no brainer.

      For corporations that are global, that are/were doing business in the U.S. or U.K. adding Hitler to that list...is just not a big deal.

      Are they attacking your company? Destroying your equipment? Who cares. If you sell to them, they might not even, it may be the one thing that saves your company from being attacked.

      Corporations could care less about "Nazis" they do like money though. They could care less about nationalities like the U.S. or U.K. as well. They like money.

      Large global organizations don't care much about any politics either way. If you have the cash, they have the goods. In the U.S. in the U.K. and anywhere.

      Yes, the "U.S." and the "U.K." were "the Nazis" to some extent. Government and business and elsewhere.

      Look at all the organizations the CIA works with, all the people they hire, including ex-Nazis...they could not care really about your politics or ex-politics...they care you can keep your mouth shut and get the job done, accomplish your task.

      The NSA and more signals type intelligence may be different...but other intelligence organizations don't really care too much about politics. They want informants of all types, in all countries, of all political backgrounds. Yes, they want Nazis on their staff, and ex-Nazis. That is a good thing, an "inside" person.

      Now, you could argue, any intelligence agency that does NOT have any "Nazis" on staff, is incompetent and not in the know on types of information they should be.

      Would you trust [insert intelligence agency here] if they were unable to successfully penetrate and infiltrate Nazi groups? Or would you call them "incompetent" ?

      Things are much more complex than "what, they are the Nazis now?" ......

  29. Still no way to verify our HDD firmware by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I emailed Kaspersky asking if they were going to do something about this -- no answer. Seagate tech support continues to pretend it's a non-problem.

    We are so screwed.

  30. Re:Kaspersky Lab by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Think about that for a second.

    Can you site any examples of any government agency ever being as perfectly perfect as you seem to think NSA is? When I think about it for a second, realistically, I think the best NSA can do is some day be able to report about something I said or did a few years ago that got picked up in their Internet dragnet. Unless there is some active investigation into your illegal or unamerican activities, I really doubt NSA is interested in what kind of porn you're beating off to.

  31. The really troubling part by ThatsNotPudding · · Score: 2

    If every OS and system on the planet is merely your plaything, you are now not just a government agency but a standalone entity that can completely self-fund without leaving a trace, and thus answerable to no one, most especially mere elected civilians.

    And if the Senators or POTUS get uppity, well no one that achieves those offices are innocent, thus they are completely blackmailable, if not subject to out and out threats (especially their families).

    I think this is the main reason every man that now becomes President ends up with gray hair, regardless of their age.

    1. Re:The really troubling part by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Blackmailable? Way more than that.

      An organization like the NSA would be able to make up and plant any sorts of incriminating evidence without leaving a trace.

  32. I believe the only proper response is... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGQaH3-LK54

  33. Do as I say not as I do by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Wasn't the US government condemning the hack of Sony pictures and instituting economic sanctions based on some shaky evidence that North Korea was involved? I wonder what actions the 42 plus countries that have been infected with Equation Group malware should take against the US government.

  34. "Exploit Engineer" by Errol+backfiring · · Score: 2

    Sorry guys, I will never use the word "hacker" again now that they are officially called "Exploit Engineers".

    --
    Nae king! Nae laird! Nae yurrupiean pressedent! We willna be fooled again!
  35. Re:Kaspersky Lab by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I do not think bringing Snowden into the example really works on this one, as he did actually steal classified info and post it to the internet/news, no belief needed. I do hope he gets a fair and public trial though, but I believe he will never make it to court.

    Edward Snowden never publicly released any classified information. The media organisation entrusted with the document collection provided by Snowden have been releasing albeit at a trickle-pace any and all such classified documents. Yet the media organisations are not being shutdown or the owners, editors, journalists arrested and charged. Nope. But Edward Snowden, for unfathomable reasons, is State Enemy #1 according to the Government of the United States of Amerika.

  36. Ah...Time Zones...Such tricky things. by Ronin+Developer · · Score: 0

    From the article: "Assuming they worked a regular 8 to 5 workday, the timestamps show the employees were likely in the UTC-3 or UTC-4 time zone, a finding that would be consistent with people working in the Eastern part of the US."

    Neither UTC -03:00 nor UTC -04:00 are associated with the Eastern US.

    UTC -03:00 is associated with: Buenos Aires, Montevideo, São Paulo

    UTC -04:00 is associated with: Santiago, La Paz, San Juan de Puerto Rico, Manaus, Halifax

    UTC -05:00, however, is however, associated with Eastern US.

    Yes, timestamps could be altered.

    And, the existence of a particular keyword does not imply NSA ties. It implies that somebody typed a known NSA keyword into the file.

    I think Kaspersky likes to read about his brilliance in the pubs. Where's the selfie?

  37. f00k'n 0.01%'ers! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Back in my day, we only had an extra day of the week, not a whole month. You younguns are getting too greedy.

    1. Re:f00k'n 0.01%'ers! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My birthday is in Smarch, you insensitive clod!

  38. Not much in the way of evidence by edtice1559 · · Score: 1

    If I'm good enough to write a sophisticated and successful piece of malware, maybe I could change the time stamps and plant some not-so-secret codeword in order to trick people into thinking it was created by my adversary. ("False flag.")

  39. Re:Hahahahaha. What a joke. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    OpenSSL not SSH.

  40. Timestamp silliness by gatkinso · · Score: 1

    For a largish project I would suspect that the release builds are run over night, CI builds during the work day.

    --
    I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
  41. Re:Kaspersky Lab by HiThere · · Score: 1

    I don't know if it's still true, but several years ago I was told that there are rainbow tables that permit relatively easy login to Linux systems. To foil that you need to have a limited number of login attempts per day, probably implemented by an increasing time limit since the last bad login...and I've never seen that as an option on a Linux system. (I'm sure it is, because it's a dead-simple obvious approach. It might require you to unplug from the net to login while you were under attack, but that's a minor cost compared to letting intruders in.)

    --

    I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
  42. Re:Hahahahaha. What a joke. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why don't hackers call their projects "8d 7d 6c 05" or "33 02 ba 9c" in source code constants?

    They do. The codewords are often randomly generated and deliberately meaningless. (The word list isn't 100% random, at least since Churchill decided he didn't want anyone to die over something called Operation Bunnyhug back in WW2.)

    NSA's mistake was in assuming that the codewords would never leave the organization. Security by obscurity. Replacing codewords with 32-bit hex digits doesn't eliminate that risk.

  43. Re:Kaspersky Lab by FatdogHaiku · · Score: 1

    So, here is the question: what do they have, right now, that we don't know about?

    What do you mean? The known unknowns or the unknown unknowns?

    I used to think I knew what I didn't know, now I don't know...
    I now know I need a lot more foil!
    http://www.amazon.com/Durable-Packaging-92410-Heavy-Aluminum/dp/B00KNM30UM

    --
    You have the right to remain sentient. If you give up the right to remain sentient, you will be elected to public office
  44. fuck by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Fucking NSA wants to see everything and every machine plugged into the Internet to be automatically compromised. Why are we paying our government to do this? They aren't at all concerned with making the net safer, they are concerned with taking it over. Fuck NSA.

  45. Re:Kaspersky Lab by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Rainbow Tables are only useful if you have an unsalted password hash. Rainbow tables are essentially pre-computed texthash databases (using a reduction function to reduce the space requirements). If you have a salted hash, you'd need a Rainbow table for that specific salt value...

    Limiting the number of login attempts has nothing to do with Rainbow tables, but it's a good idea in general to prevent brute-force attacks.

  46. Re: Kaspersky Lab by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Imagine a place they protect with AK47s and large trucks with large missiles on them. The missiles have a nice 500kt warhead at the tip. Now imagine what that place could theoretically achieve.

    That place could actually build a full suite of hardware and software not corrupted by the Maryland bastards. It would not contain a C compiler and no ARM processor. Neither would it contain a backdoored Linux kernel or an even more backdoored Windows kernel. They would fend off the saboteuers from maryland with said weapons.

    But that would imply that they actually had DIFFERENT concepts for the future in their minds. Now I am not sure the Russkies have that intelligence or aspiration. Their aspiration seems to be left alone from all the insane Money People And Their Guns from Paris, Berlin and now New York. It does not seem to be their aspiration to fix the morally 100% rotten world of computers.

    China just stated that they want to rot computers even less covertly.

    In other words: The folks who could do something about Moral Rottenness chose to play Least Effort and let the IT industry continue to rot to death.

  47. doesn't sound right by WeeBit · · Score: 1

    Are they so lame and stuffy that they would not cover their butts?

  48. Re:Kaspersky Lab by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If everyone believes they have perfect knowledge, it doesn't matter what you actually did. Whatever they say will be taken as the truth. They can control with blackmail, but they can disgrace with libel. That is the more dangerous thing.

  49. Re:Kaspersky Lab by hankwang · · Score: 1

    With a rainbow table you can brute-force a password if you know the password hash. You need only one login attempt -- and you need the hash, for which you normally need root access to start with, at least for the last 20 years. Unix/Linux passwords have always been stored as salted hashes, which makes rainbow tables not practical. The practical way to brute-force a password is therefore a dictionary attack.

  50. be very wary of Kaspersky by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Kaspersky is a KGB front, an incredibly complex operation with built in denial it run by a pretend dissident.

  51. Re:Kaspersky Lab by countach · · Score: 1

    I don't doubt the NSA has been doing nefarious things since the 50s, but I suspect their more outlandish things like this have taken shape since 9/11.

  52. Re:Kaspersky Lab by countach · · Score: 1

    A rainbow table might not be practical for you and I, but might be practical for the NSA. But as you say, it assumes you have the passwd hash table already. In the old days it was exposed in /etc/password, but that hasn't been the case in decades.

  53. Re:Kaspersky Lab by david_thornley · · Score: 1

    If the NSA can remove the effects of the salt in order to use a rainbow table, they've cracked the hash, and don't need a rainbow table. If not, even a two-byte salt would increase the size of the rainbow table by 65.536 times, and I doubt the NSA is going to use tables that much bigger than they need. They'd almost certainly do a dictionary attack and other things, which essentially means building a rainbow table as they go. It's more computation, but, really, this is the NSA.

    Even if the NSA has root access to a system, they might well want to crack the passwords, partly to be able to get further access to the system if their current method stops working or is too obvious, and partly to get username-password pairs they can try elsewhere.

    --
    "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes