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Linux Might Need To Claim Only ACPI 2.0 Support For BIOS
jones_supa writes Some of us remember the story of why Linux kernel responds "False" when ACPI BIOS asks if the operating system is Linux. We have found yet another case where mimicking the Windows behavior instead of writing to the spec is the right choice if you just want your machine to work properly. The ACPI spec defines the _REV object as evaluating to the revision of the ACPI specification that the OS implements. Linux returns 5 for this, because Linux actually tries to implement ACPI 5.0, but Windows returns 2 (ACPI 2.0), possibly due to legacy reasons. Linux kernel expert Matthew Garrett discovered that still a fair amount of brokenness appears when 5 is returned as the revision, including a Dell machine which left the sound hardware in a misconfigured state. He is proposing a kernel patch which simply reports _REV as 2 on all x86 hardware.
I though he quit contributing to linux because women's rights!
Really? How many Linux kernel drivers do weird things like that to be able to work properly?
Captcha: labored
So much work on the path that leads to it just being Windows.
Why not just run Windows and call it a day :)
3...2...1...
MS had a large portion of the market so big players trying to launch products on a tight schedule or low budget will quickly ignore specs they don't believe will be required for the launch. In this case Windows forces a lower spec. The problem with that is you'll rarely see companies go back and address the issue until there's a fire burning under their behind.
Sounds like a bios issue not a kernel issue. If linux is trying to do it correctly screw what windows does. Maybe what could be done is a flag to send from the bootloader to fix his one off issue. ACPI=2 something like that.
2 might be the right default, but shouldn't we at least allow acpi_version= on the kernel cmdline for people who want to take advantage of the feature spread between 2 and 5?
Not everybody has broken Dell crap, right?
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
How about reporting yes to Linux and keeping the correct 5 as a response.
Then return all that dont deliver a working computer as broken.
Because whats the use of having those questions if everybody delivers the same answer ?
Just saying it like it are.
Their kind shits on the truth and lies lies lies. They lie to promote and help their kind and their ways. That is what they do. They even often lie when it just doesn't matter. They just lie for fun. Now Linus wants every Linux user to lie. That is what this is about. He wants to turn us into liars where lying as a daily thing we do for fun becomes normal. This Republican-created crap has destroyed this country and is infecting the world. For them, it's all about the lies.
No, we should tell the truth. If we are better than Windows, then we should tell the truth. This demand we lie and say we're down at their level is morally wrong.
append fake_ACPI=2 to wherever your kernel command-line hides. At least this is easily done and more importantly, people can know it might help.
Whether Linus will accept another switch is a totally different question -- Does his famous "The kernel will not cater for broken hardware" extend to BIOS firmware?
According to MSDN, Window 8 and 8.1 support ACPI 5.0 which I guess adds support for low powered mobile computers based on the system on a chip (SoC) platform. If Linux just reports support for ACPI 2.0, will it be able to run on devices with SoC? Maybe the kernel should have some smarts and report to the bios what kind of hardware its running on and report the ACPI version accordingly.
Shouldn't systemd handle this?
who runs sound on their servers?
Who runs linux on their desktop?
Windows 10. Resistance is futile.
Would that come in conflict with his other mantra of "don't break user space"?
And I'm lying.
I had a Toshiba laptop where none of the built-in devices like sound or network worked if you booted with ACPI on. It turned out the fix was to fool the bios into thinking it was running Windows by editing the DSDT code. The firmware on this machine actually shut off all the peripherals if it thought it was running some version of Linux.
I've always been mystified as to why Toshiba's engineers did this. And even having that capability in ACPI seems architecturally suspect. I can't see any legitimate reason for the machine's firmware to second guess what to do based on which OS is running on it.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
Burma Shave.
I now wonder if it's a good idea to add ACPI to the ARM architecture. The device tree have the advantage to be far simpler and more robust since it can't change depending on the operating system loaded.
I propose a new rule similar to Godwin's rule about the first to mention the word "Nazi" loses the argument. From this day forward anyone using the term "SJW" shall automatically lose any discussion, argument, or shouting match.
Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
From: Bill Gates
Sent: Sunday, January 24, 1999 8:41 AM
To: Jeff Westorinen; Ben Fathi
Cc: Carl Stork (Exchange); Nathan Myhrvold; Eric Rudder
Subject: ACPI extensions
"One thing I find myself wondering about is whether we shouldn't try and make the "ACPI" extensions somehow Windows specific.
It seems unfortunate if we do this work and get our partners to do the work and the results is that Linux works great without having to do the work.
Maybe there is no way to avoid this problem but it does bother me.
Maybe we could define the APIs so that they work well with NT and not the others even if they are open.
Or maybe we could patent something related to this."
-------
A possible bug in Foxconn boards BIOS affects Linux ACPI
Foxconn Does Hate Linux Support
I second the proposal, but with one minor edit: instead of losing the argument, the invocation of the "SJW" gambit is a win by fiat.
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doesn't stink!!! We know otherwise.
I got to the chocolate box before you, that's why the hard ones have teeth marks.
Wrong way round. it should default with a configuration what will work everywhere (ACPI=2) and use kernel command-line options for the relatively rare hardware that actually supports higher spec.
He has a habit of deferring to power, and a worldview seemingly composed of extreme sadism and fear-driven policy. This can be seen in e.g. the Secure Boot advocacy he engaged in on the LKML a few years ago.
(not to mention the radical-feminist personal attacks he engaged in against tytso a few years earlier still. not a guy you want calling the shots. interestingly the FSF has him on board as the token male feminist.)
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity. The firmware developers probably never finished the "5" case in the "level" switch, and were still fine to ship the laptop with Windows. They were not obligated to do anything else to bring this to the market in any practical way.
I've seen developers write the minimum amount of code that will "make it just work", and ignore what will make it "actually right". This is not only Linux's issue. Even Windows had to do crazy things, like Win 95 had to use Win 3.1 memory manager if Sim City was running (http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/APIWar.html). That is software, not hardware, but the core concept is the same. Somebody does a crappy product that works with a certain OS, and all the others have to mimic that in order to get that product working.
I don't think myself, nor anyone else, should take advice about how one should treat women from the likes of Archie Bunker....
Sorry guy, but anyone that owns a Fiat can tell you, they won't win shit!
Well Mr. Smartypants, if you were so well versed in Godwin's Law as you purport to be, then you'd know that you cannot purposefully invoke Godwin's law in an attempt to shut down a topic. There's an old original usenet post that explains all of this to you. All of you mods who modded his BS as Informative need your mod points revoked!
I am no expert but it seems ACPI was created for power management and managing "thermal zones".
Why not simply have a standard PCI device that does this!?!?!?
There is the AHCI spec for interfacing to hard drives. The AHCI controller is a standard PCI (or PCI express) device.
Surely a similar standard could of been invented for power management / thermal management?
A PCI device is much more robust than ACPI/AML. ACPI and AML are so badly designed that LInus Torvalds rightly suggested the authors should kill themselves.
Does anyone have any good reason why a PCI device (or devices) would not be able to provide the necessary functionality that ACPI badly provides today?
So put your complaint to them, that the ACPI standard is being deliberately broken by Microsoft.
Oh, and since all Windows versions call themselves ACPI2.0 compliant, if it doesn't say that, there's no need to do the checks. REMEMBER: if the board won't work with Windows 12 when it DID work with Windows 7,8,9,10 and 11, then it will be considered an error with Win12, not your board BIOS. So only bother with the OSI tests if it claims ACPI2.0 compliance.
Wrong party buddy.
Democrats are the party of rape
http://gawker.com/flight-logs-put-clinton-dershowitz-on-pedophile-billio-1681039971
It sounds like we need FOSS (Free and Open Source Software) hardware testing tools to ensure boards, bios/uefi, drivers, etc. are built according the specifications of the standard.
Does anyone know the status of such tools? Do they exist? Do they lack features? Are they just not being used? Would a Windows version of them help? etc.
You think the board manufacturers have ANY leverage whatsoever against Microsoft? OEMs would instantly stop doing business with anybody whose board doesn't work with every version of windows. You would have to get every single motherboard company on board to pull that off and thats a two prisoners dilemma but played with dozens of people who its in their best interest to be the one not playing nice.
From a user's perspective, if a device doesn't work with Linux, the OS is broken, but if a device doesn't work with Windows, then the device is broken. It's not fair, but that's the reality we operate in.
Most human behaviour can be explained in terms of identity.
After reading in to the problem, I can see it's due to sloppiness on Windows' part. At some point we need to just do the right thing, and do it whether Microsoft is on board or not. The fact that Microsoft, a software company, can still influence the hardware market is mind boggling. The reason is probably high market share, which is not the most ideal situation.