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Facebook Makes Messenger a Platform

Posted by samzenpus on from the stand-on-your-own-two-feet dept.

Steven Levy writes At Facebook's F8 developer conference, the ascension of the Messenger app was the major announcement. Messenger is no longer just a part of Facebook, but a standalone platform to conduct a wide variety of instant communications, not only with friends, but with businesses you may deal with as well. It will compete with other messaging services such as Snapchat, Line and even Facebook's own WhatsApp by offering a dizzying array of features, many of them fueled by the imagination and self-interest of thousands of outside software developers.

48 comments

  1. What guarantees of longevity? by Bronster · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The core question with running on anybody else's platform, unless they are a regulated carrier somewhere which is required by a law to carry your traffic, is what happens when they change the rules?

    Would you be comfortable building your entire business on top of it? What if Facebook imposes new limits or rules that mean you can't use it any more.

    I had a conversation with a friend back in 2008-2009 some time over Facebook Messanger. We tried to find it last year. It rembered a chat we had in 2007, then nothing until 2010. It's not your own immutable copy the way that email is. Every new messaging platform claims it will kill email, but funnily enough they never do, because they don't offer what email offers - your own immutable copy and interoperability with everyone else. Email actually is the real distributed social network.

    1. Re:What guarantees of longevity? by TeknoHog · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Every new messaging platform claims it will kill email, but funnily enough they never do, because they don't offer what email offers - your own immutable copy and interoperability with everyone else. Email actually is the real distributed social network.

      I've never thought of Facebook messenger as anything more than a random web chat, a bolt-on feature of the whole antisocial media site. However, email isn't really a fair comparison, as it doesn't allow actual realtime chat. That's what IRC is for, and you get to keep your logs as you please on your own machine. I guess the same applies to any of the newer IM protocols, as long as it's an independent application you control.

      BTW, what would you guys suggest to wean non-technical friends off FB chat, given that IRC might be a little too much hassle with all the servers and keeping their computer on all the time?

      --
      Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
    2. Re:What guarantees of longevity? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To wean them off the "facebook is spying on you" app? SMS. It works, it's regulated over most carriers, and, well, it works. If they're hostile to the cell phone companies, as I am, then get a google voice number and use google voice. No cell phone, but everyone who doesn't know I don't have a cell phone can SMS me just fine, and those who know I don't have one are a little wierded out, but it's okay.

    3. Re:What guarantees of longevity? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      then get a google voice number

      Sure, I'll get right on that. As soon as Google makes that option available outside the US.

    4. Re:What guarantees of longevity? by MightyYar · · Score: 3, Insightful

      BTW, what would you guys suggest to wean non-technical friends off FB chat,

      I don't know... we've gone backwards. We started out with competing and non-compatible IM clients - AIM being the biggest. For a while we were trending toward a bunch of competing but compatible IM clients. Then everyone abandoned IM for SMS. Now they are abandoning SMS for a bunch of competing non-compatible IM clients... just on the phone this time.

      I currently have WhatsApp installed for a single friend who insists on using it. It's pretty good - give that one a shot. Sometimes people invite me to a Google Hangout - and that also lets you talk or video chat for free. Viber is another one that works pretty well and gives you free calling. The desktop version does video. I have exactly one friend on that.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    5. Re:What guarantees of longevity? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      IMHO all of them pale before LINE. Line has free calling, video calling and group chats.

    6. Re:What guarantees of longevity? by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Weechat has been a good alternative I have found while I was living behind the great firewall.

      But really Messenger and email couldn't be more different. I wouldn't write a long story on messenger. Like wise basic file transfer, video sharing, and VOIP calling is not something I do over email.

    7. Re:What guarantees of longevity? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So install Digby or Pidgin and use them to connect to FB chat or Google chat, and keep your logs.

    8. Re:What guarantees of longevity? by Bronster · · Score: 2

      Honestly, I use FB's messaging interchangably with SMS. I don't expect to keep history of either of them. Anything I want to keep gets sent as email.

      IRC is great for work. I don't use it for random people though. All my choir and gym friends are on Facebook, and coordinate things through there. I'm not going to cut myself off from that.

    9. Re:What guarantees of longevity? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why would they need to keep their computer on all the time? I run IRC on someone elses server. Can connect to it with any device from pretty much anywhere. That being said, is there a working IRC bridge for this yet? I know WhatsApp was hostile towards the IRC bridges someone made, maybe it will work now.

      THAT being said, it's kinda stupid to try to reinvent IRC multiple times over. No app has got close to being as flexible and usable as IRC is.

    10. Re:What guarantees of longevity? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > email isn't really a fair comparison, as it doesn't allow actual realtime chat
      Are you sure. No reason it can't offer about the same speed as some messenger service. What latency do you see?

    11. Re:What guarantees of longevity? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Instead of simply searching for an instant messaging system or social networking platform that works well (because there are many), you should instead seek solutions that are *open* and *federated*.

      For instant messaging, I recommend XMPP (http://xmpp.org), a web standard chat protocol. XMPP is the email of instant messaging, because everyone with an account on an XMPP server can chat together. It is a fully federated system. As far as I know, Facebook even supports XMPP, so you should be able to download any of the numerous desktop and mobile client apps and chat seamlessly with people who are not on Facebook. If the client supports end-to-end encryption like OTR, then your conversations can even be private from Facebook.

      For social networking, I recommend Red Matrix (https://redmatrix.me). It is a fully featured, federated network that appears very much like Facebook on the surface but actually offers much more. You can make connections (like Facebook "friends") and share content with them (photos, videos, text, etc) in posts where you set the permissions to control access. The important part that sets Red Matrix apart is that (1) it is a federated network, meaning people can have accounts on independent hubs (servers) but still transparently communicate with one another, and (2) you actually *own your identity*, meaning that if you want to use a different hub, you can seamlessly migrate your information (including your connections and content) to another hub. This "nomadic identity" is a revolutionary and sorely needed feature of modern online communication. Your online presence should not be controlled or constrained by anyone but yourself.

    12. Re:What guarantees of longevity? by rodrigoandrade · · Score: 1

      It's called a Service Level Agreement.

      Basically, you sign a contract with Facebook that says "OK, Facebook, I'm going to build my infrastructure on top of your platform and I require that you support it for the next 15 years, capiche?"

      Facebook may say Yay or Nay. Depending on the answer, you take your business elsewhere.

      See? No government intervention required.

    13. Re:What guarantees of longevity? by gatzke · · Score: 1

      BTW, what would you guys suggest to wean non-technical friends off FB chat, given that IRC might be a little too much hassle with all the servers and keeping their computer on all the time?

      Google Hangouts does chat and video chat and snapchat image type stuff.

      It is multiplatform, unlike Factime or SMS messaging. Not sure if Whatsapp has a PC/Mac client.

      I have had messaged delayed for some unknown reason on occasion. But overall, it is very solid.

    14. Re:What guarantees of longevity? by Bronster · · Score: 1

      Yeah, indeed. Let me know when somebody has one of those that doesn't have a laughably small pentalty for Facebook if they change their mind and I will completely change my tune.

    15. Re:What guarantees of longevity? by BESTouff · · Score: 2

      So you use WhatsApp, Hangout & Viber, depending on who calls you (ou who you wanna call). Chat is awful compared to mail. Almost no interoperability, no easy way to own your data.

    16. Re:What guarantees of longevity? by rodrigoandrade · · Score: 1

      All companies are doing fine using services from Oracle, IBM, SAP, Microsoft, etc. I fail to see why Facebook would be any different.

    17. Re:What guarantees of longevity? by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      Yeah, it sucks. That's why I said we've gone backwards.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    18. Re:What guarantees of longevity? by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      Android? IOS?

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    19. Re:What guarantees of longevity? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      facebook is using xmpp, they've just disabled the interaction with non-facebook servers

    20. Re:What guarantees of longevity? by TeknoHog · · Score: 1

      > email isn't really a fair comparison, as it doesn't allow actual realtime chat Are you sure. No reason it can't offer about the same speed as some messenger service. What latency do you see?

      I haven't checked the latencies -- there's probably nothing wrong with SMTP itself, but the practical implementations are wildly different, due to different application realms. Email is more like a replacement for snailmail letters, and the infrastructure with multiple server routes and technologies (such as IMAP at the receiving end) is not optimized for simplicity and speed. Conversely, IM is closer to face-to-face talk, and the speed/simplicity is usually realized by minimizing different layers of software, at the expense of flexibility and independence (e.g. Facebook chat).

      I guess you could make an email client with an IM-like interface and do some tweaks to minimize latencies, but there are good reasons why these are separate technologies.

      --
      Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
    21. Re:What guarantees of longevity? by TeknoHog · · Score: 1

      Why would they need to keep their computer on all the time? I run IRC on someone elses server. Can connect to it with any device from pretty much anywhere.

      This wouldn't be an issue for the typical /.er, but it's hard to "sell" IRC with all its quirks when they see something like FB chat working without any extra config. Even basic IRC usage needs some setting up with the servers, and running the client on a separate shell account (aka 1960 tech, why would anybody use text terminals in the age of bling) would be rather hardcore.

      Of course, the main problem is really about trust: you can receive messages offline only if you choose a third party like FB to store them. My non-techie friends basically need something more reliable than FB, so I guess I could go back to the likes of ICQ, or whatever is the closest equivalent today.

      --
      Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
    22. Re:What guarantees of longevity? by TeknoHog · · Score: 1

      All my choir and gym friends are on Facebook, and coordinate things through there. I'm not going to cut myself off from that.

      Incidentally, the only reason I have a FB account is to coordinate art/music projects. However, FB chat is just too unreliable to use for anything too intense. I guess I could go back to the likes of ICQ, which I used to use with the less techy friends back in the day.

      --
      Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
    23. Re:What guarantees of longevity? by praxis · · Score: 1

      Which platform is the only platform with SMS clients?

    24. Re:What guarantees of longevity? by praxis · · Score: 1

      First, not all companies are doing fine using services from Oracle, IBM, SAP and Microsoft.

      Second, Facebook is different in the same way that Oracle is different and IBM is different and SAP is different. It is not a very convincing argument to say other companies provide services so *this* company's services must be "fine".

    25. Re:What guarantees of longevity? by Bronster · · Score: 1

      Anything that needs more than FB or SMS I just use email. My email delivers fast, and straight to my watch/phone/ipad/laptop:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

      The watch is more convenient when it's on my wrist, but it doesn't film as well.

    26. Re:What guarantees of longevity? by gatzke · · Score: 1

      What do you mean by SMS clients? Do you mean SMS integration?

      I have email and chat. Why would I want SMS to get crippled messages or limit myself to a phone platform?

  2. and so it goes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Already I've seen businesses where the only way to interact with them online is on Facebook. And many people do all online socialization using Facebook too, and don't use email at all.

    Whatever happened to the concept of an open internet? Protocols that anybody could write to? Where anyone could run their own server if they wanted?

    The internet doesn't route around censorship if it's all centralized and proprietary.

    1. Re:and so it goes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Facebook is the new AOL.

    2. Re:and so it goes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Already I've seen businesses where the only way to interact with them online is on Facebook.

      A lot of online comment sections use facebook too - if you're not a facebook member, you simply don't get to comment.

      It's a very strange way to do business. Stupid, even.

    3. Re:and so it goes by sycodon · · Score: 2

      You're being pretty hard on AOL aren't you?

      --
      When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    4. Re: and so it goes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Facebook only businesses do not exist for me. If you're that uncreative/lazy/stupid I don't want anything to do with you. Problem solved.

  3. I may try it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Compared to the rest of current abominations from other companies.

  4. F8? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    More like Ctrl Alt Delete, because Facebook is just the kind of shit corporation that will let 3rd party devs come up with the good ideas, then in 2 years when *they* made the product a success, end the API program with a kthxbai.

  5. Annoy Ex? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Will it now allow me to return to annoying my Ex?? Even though am blocked?

  6. So this is why chat in their iOS app is broken! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And has been for months. Most of the reviews the past year are about how it is broken. It is embarrassing that a multi-billion dollar corporation can't get their iOS app to damn work when it worked for years before. Did all of the decent programmers quit in disgust? Did they fire all of the good ones like happened when I was at Microsoft? Note, I didn't get fired at Microsoft. I admit that I'm so bad that I was kept on. Has Facebook pulled a Microsoft?

  7. I use AOL you insensitive clods. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I use AOL you insensitive clods.

  8. Smell my vagina! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Inhale that mark zuckerberg honey hole

  9. Yet another platform? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    We need a new icon, one that shows zuckerberg with a borg assimilation upgrade ala the Bill Gates one; Seriously.

    1. Re:Yet another platform? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and where is the google borg then ?

    2. Re:Yet another platform? by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 1

      The Bill Gates one went away awhile ago, to be replaced with the
      "Microsoft" logo that I remember on Word for MS-DOS and the Windows 3.1 era.

      I think that part of the Diceification of Slashdot was involved. We're all professional and stuff now (except for the people who edit and post stories)

    3. Re:Yet another platform? by thegarbz · · Score: 2

      Why because he's added a VoIP service to the text messaging feature in Facebook.

  10. And this is what by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    medium.com spammer number three? four? five?

  11. Proprietary by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Some people develop a new "platform" because they think they have a better idea or better technology. Others just reinvent the wheel...poorly because they want something that's under their control. I have yet to see a good, browser based chat implementation. Facebook's sucked Donkey Balls the last time I used it a few years ago.

    It's just another step in that pimply faced thief Fuckerberg's attempt to get control of everyone. He's like Gates, but much less likeable and much more stupid.

  12. Still don't want a second app. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ok. Great. How about adding a part of the standard app interface that just hooks into your new platform for simplified messaging? You know, like the mobile app used to behave normally? The main app already receives the messages in order to put the text in the notifications. Keep the pic sending, emojis, or whatever you're trying to pawn off in the separate app, make me download it if I care about that. I don't. I'll sooner drop the app entirely and use the website than use two apps for Facebook.

  13. Standalone platform? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Messenger is no longer just a part of Facebook, but a standalone platform

    So, it can be used by those of us who do not have a facebook login? I'll wait to see it before I believe it.

    And if not, where's the difference to the old Facebook XMPP, that could be used with any IM client, but requires a Facebook login?

  14. I wish Facebook would just fuck off by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Instead of interacting with the same friends in the same app, I'm now expected to get notifications via one, and communicate via another? Back to the crappy web interface, and probably long term, not using facebook.
    It's becoming less and less used for almost all my friends, so it looks like Facebook has started eating itself.

  15. Or you could set up an XMPP server by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's free. You have control. You're choice of server cert or indiviual client certs for SSL.