Slashdot Mirror
American Psychological Association Hit With New Torture Allegations
sciencehabit writes: Did the American Psychological Association (APA) collude with the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) to enable the torture of detainees in the War on Terror? The answer won't be known until June, when an independent investigation is due to conclude. But at least one thing was made clear in a report from an independent group of psychologists based on e-mail exchanges between APA and CIA officials from 2003 to 2006: The world's largest professional organization for psychologists has maintained a surprisingly cozy relationship with the defense and intelligence community.
They may have used the APA style guide. That's been torturing people for a long time.
Never seeing another shrink again as a sign of my protest.
If you think the investigation will be independent, then you need your head examined
Money talks.
Breathing is a pyschological illness. That explains all the nut jobs around me.
So if they dump the APA they will have to switch to using Scientology. Torture those thetans right out of you.
It really isn't surprising that the defense and intelligence communities would interact with the APA or at least with some group of psychologists. The defense and intelligence communities would have a vested interest in training their own members in how to deal with torture and interrogations in case they are ever captured. And unfortunately its hard to study and practice those defensive techniques without also learning how to actually conduct those techniques on your own detainees. The nature and tone of the discussions is somewhat relevant though - did they approach the APA asking how best to torture someone to get info, or did they go in asking for defensive techniques and training for their own agents?
I know nothing about the relationship between the APA and the CIA/FBI/TSA/NSA/GOP here, so it may all be terrible. But: there are reasons to cooperate with a body that might misuse your work that do not involve encouraging them to misuse it. One example might be if the advise offered was on how to get answers out of someone without torturing them.
One community that would, presumably, be very good at the whole knowing how to "Get information out of people without torturing them" would be psychologists (well, at least 43% of the time ;-)).
Yes, I may be wrong here. But the truth is I'd rather wait until this report is published, than leap to assumptions.
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
It would be like them going to the AMA and asking what's the most effective way to cut someone up.
Doctors are meant to heal not inflict damage. It's attitudes like yours that does the most damage to society.
The ones who major in Psychology are typically the ones who need it.
Ok. great. Next we're going to learn that we really have an alien overload and that the 50's are making a resurgence.
But he insulted others (presumably for not thinking like him in His One True Way), which means he must be awesome... How can he be the problem?!
What on earth are you talking about? It's a "wingnut" position that the professional organization for psychologists probably shouldn't be advising the government on torture techniques? Please explain your logic.
My Other Computer Is A Data General Nova III.
It would be more like them going to the AMA and asking how much electrical current can be run through the human body without doing permanent physical harm while maximizing the pain.
It's truth seeking therapy.
"Surprisingly cozy relationship" my ass. This is what real work is like, you advise people who do things. The fact that you don't like them after the fact is an irrelevancy.
You wave your bias way too openly to be taken seriously. Then again, this is pretty much the wingnut witch hunt site nowadays. Sanity is not easily to be found.
When i was serving in the Greek special forces (as a conscript*) we had this "what to do and what you will suffer if you are taken prisoners by the enemy" training, which in reality, if the roles were changed, could be used as a "what to do to the enemy if you take them prisoners and want them to give info" - i am sure (and know for a fact actualy) that among the psychologists helping directly/indirectly with this training existed many who opposed any (physical/psychological) turture.
I understand already that Slashdot is a place where you always have to defend your sanity from the libtarded summaries...
* officers, not only from S.F., had a much harder training.
Antisthenes: "Wisdom begins by examining the words/names." - excuse my English, i am (slightly...) better with my Greek!
The CIA would beat detainees with hardcover copies of outdated DSMs. And then make them read them.
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
...is asking them for an opinion really meaningful?
Donald Ewen Cameron says "GET OFF ME LAWN!"
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
I submit that the "wingnut" position is as follows: the American Psychological Association probably has little if any interaction with defense and/or intelligence agencies.
It should be obvious that defense and intelligence agencies have a high need for the services that the APA would offer. And both agencies have money and political clout with which to procure said services.
This has been going on for a long time - although it was not called "torture", but "research".
Here in Canada, the CIA funded Dr. Ewan Cameron's "psychic driving" experiments under the MKULTRA program.
Dr. Cameron was also the head of both the American and World Psychiatric associations.
"Patients" were given treatments such as electroshock, LSD, drug-induced comas, etc., although many of the patients were there for anxiety or depression and did not consent to these types of treatments. Cameron essentially turned his patients into vegetables who suffered from amnesia and forgot how to talk or dress themselves. Some did not remember family members and forgot how to use the bathroom by themselves.
Many of the surviving victims were eventually given small financial settlements, and the Canadian government and CIA were essentially absolved of any wrong doing as a result.
The Fifth Estate productions produced an excellent movie based on Dr. Cameron and his experiments, entitled The Sleep Room".
You can watch it online here.
Political correctness is really just herd psychology pushed by insecure people who desperately seek social conformity.
Real doctors take an oath to do no harm with the knowledge they've been granted. I guess that's why the CIA went with psychologists.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
:) xx
Bukowski said it. I believe it. That settles it.
DO we blame plier manufacturers for their roles in torture? What is the difference between a physical tool and a psychological one?
putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
Don't torture jihadis (although they practice widespread barbaric torture and slavery, and have been doing so for 14 centuries) - shoot them!
Then when we are done shooting jihadis. we should shoot all those that are enabling the jihadis. Because if we don't, then 21st Century Enlightenment Civilization will be replaced by global 7th Century Sharia barbarism (which Koran 9:29 mandates). I wish it were not a "us or them" situation, but unfortunately it is - and the fact that even smart Slashdotters don't grok this shows how badly we are losing the all important war of ideas: Enlightenment vs Totalitarian Theocracy.
The APA has been collaborating with the military for a long time.
I suspect the first large scale collaboration between the APA and the military started with Robert Yerkes back in World War I. Back then the controversy was eugenics (more specifically to justify the popular idea of the mental inferiority of and second wave European immigrants and African Americans).
Apparently, this time it was to attempt to assess enhanced torture methods in use for "safety, efficacy, and health impacts".
Somehow, it never seems to go well when these two organizations start cooperating...
They're not a real professional anyways..
Hmm, pretty much. But as soon as you try to bring up things like this in most forums you'll get shut down by at least seven different disinformation campaigns.
What most people don't realize is psychology is a fraud. A long time ago it wasn't accepted as legitimate for good reason. It's not based on science and has always been a fraud of the people. While historically they've come up with new solutions each time an old solutions were revealed as fraudulent it has been the case that the new solutions have been worse than the old solutions with no actual benefits. The technique were not humane back in the day and the solutions only made things worse. Unfortunately not much has changed.
Now a genuine "profession" it's still a fraud. For example behavior therapy does little more than get people to change there behavior. It doesn't fix the underlying problem. If I'm in pain and you cause more pain I'm going to say my pain is gone just to get you to stop. Yet this is the kind of thing that goes on and is sold as a “treatment”. People who voluntarily or otherwise seek treatment eventually give up and shut up.
Drugs often do little to help relieve symptoms. Rather they change things in dangerous and almost always damaging ways. Some drugs for instance cause people to lose the ability to “think” for instance-even after they stop taking the drugs. For a while (recently) many psychologists were telling patients that the law required them to be on these medications even that were doing horrible damage (Aspergers).
Other good recent examples involve behavior therapies. The psychologist will cause the victim (“patient”) more pain until the patient eventually gives up and realizes the only way out is to give in and pretend that they are “cured”. For various reasons this works. Think conversion therapy- where it related to gay people. Largely revealed to be a fraud.
The American Psychological Association has removed some sexual orientations from there list of mental disorders, but not others. I wonder why that is. I can tell you. It's not a matter of science. It's a matter of politics. They add and remove mental disorders based on a vote. The main book in the industry is the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (ie the American Psychological Association). You could be labeled mentally disturbed tomorrow purely based on a vote by psychologists.
The psychologists who study this stuff are often doing so under scientifically / mathematically unsound conditions. If you have a population of people with “disorder” X and its illegal to have “disorder” X or is otherwise socially unacceptable then that population is going to hide. Psychologists will then only be able to look / study the prison population for which they've for one reason or another have been able to identify a subset of said group. That subset does not necessarily represent the group as a whole though and it is likely that other problems resulted in incarceration. They will then conclude “disorder” X results in legal problems which means its a mental disorder based on the criteria for what they accept as a mental disorder (anything that causes a problem). Essentially they can turn anything into a mental disorder for which they can use for profit and political gain (studying a prison population is just an example). There is a reason homosexuality was removed from the list of mental disorders while other sexual orientations were not. It became socially unacceptable because this population spoke up. Obviously only a small fraction of homosexuals ever raped anybody or ended up in jail as a result of laws criminalizing homosexuality. Sexual orientations which make up a smaller percentage of the population have little chance of changing public perception. At least not ones that are more severely stigmatized.
yes, torture is wrong... However, if I am interrogating someone, I not inherently torturing them. What is more, if I use a psychologist to help me interrogate people better, I am further not torturing someone.
Look, the DoD funds a lot of scientific research in the US. Robotics, physics, computer science, atomic physics, biological research, medicine, etc.
Why is it right for all those scientists to help the DoD but not psychologists? If a psychologist knows how to break a hardened terrorist in a shorter amount of time without inflicting lasting harm on the person... then why would I not do it?
These are people it should be noted that in most cases we would have killed outright in the field if we didn't think they had value in interrogation.
A lot of this anti interrogation stuff is just going to encourage the CIA to do two things:
1. You're going to see more black sites in proxy countries that will keep the whole thing secret and even if it does come out we'll just say they were in a Polish jail or something.
2. We'll just kill them outright rather than bothering to interrogate them.
With the interrogation, we get the potential of learning more about what is going on so that we can be more effective at shutting down terror cells. And there is a potential that the person can be released to live an otherwise peaceful life.
You side against interrogation entirely and both of those things go out the window.
Choose.
I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
"The answer won't be known until June, when an independent investigation is due to conclude." - right! And by the time the report has been fully redacted by whomsoever wants to keep that stuff secret, we will see a lot of black ink, and no information... :-(
Nothing new here folks, move along.
The fact that nobody went to jail for US waterboarding is disturbing.
The US had used allegations of waterboarding against Japanese decision makers in the post WWII war-crimes trials to sentence them. Although, it should be noted that it was typically one of multiple torture allegations.
http://www.politifact.com/virg...
We are filthy hypocrites. Somebody(s) should be locked up a good long time.
Table-ized A.I.
By your definition, falling in love would be a mental illness. As would most behaviors that are influenced by emotions.
Furthermore, anytime anyone disagree with anyone they will feel fully justified in saying "you aren't reasoning clearly, and hence are mentally ill!"
Your criteria are far too arbitrary and broad to be useful.
Just to be clear, psychologists do not go to medical school nor do they take the Hippocratic Oath. They go to graduate school and usually get a PhD or a PsD. Do not confuse them with psychiatrists who do go to medical school and do take the Hippocratic Oath. Psychiatrists and all other physicians do not engage in torture.
lol, greece. Your military still has the mentality of a '70s tinpot dictatorship and you'd roll over in 5 minutes if attacked. Your opinion is irrelevant.
And your opinion is worth .... ?
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
There are certain disorders that cause potential patients to shy away from mental health providers. Any hint of scandal will result in numerous people with serious disorders to avoid seeking help. That sets the stage for serious consequences. And it can be an indirect excuse. For example people who suffer from manic depression are notorious for finding excuse not to be effectively medicated. They are willing to take medications but any medication that starts to lessen their mania will be rejected and often the health care provider is avoided as well. People who deal with paranoia will claim the the case worker is in league with their fantasy enemies. All in all any thing that lowers the perception of the value of mental health care is actually causal to avoidance of treatment.