Apple Acquires GPS Start-Up

An anonymous reader writes: Apple is still sprinting to catch up with Google with its navigation software — the company just acquired Coherent Navigation, a startup focused on GPS tech. Its navigation services are reportedly more precise than most commercial-grade systems. Their system "combines signals from the traditional mid-earth orbit GPS satellites with those from the low-earth satellites of voice and data provider Iridium to offer greater accuracy and precision, higher signal integrity, and greater jam resistance." They've already worked with Boeing and the U.S. Department of Defense. Apple didn't disclose the terms of the deal or explain any specific plans for the GPS technology.

Comments

FTFY

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple is still sprinting to catch up with Google with its SPYWARE.

Re:FTFY

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple is still sprinting to catch up with Google with its SPYWARE.

yes because you are really so very significant and important that multibillion dollar corporations want so badly to spy on you!

Re:FTFY

[ArcadeMan]

AC: you are so very insignificant that you're basically a single drop in a limitless ocean.
Corporations: What is an ocean but a multitude of drops?

A GPS company.

[Chas]

So does this mean Apple Maps will stop guiding people out into the middle of nowhere, off cliffs and into lakes?

Re:A GPS company.

[Anonymous Coward]

So does this mean Apple Maps will stop guiding people out into the middle of nowhere, off cliffs and into lakes?

If so that's too bad. As a society, why do we hate natural selection? Do we _want_ Idiocracy? Natural selection is your friend! There are network effects, after all. Ergo, a moron falling off a cliff is a GOOD moron!

The people with a shred of sense are capable of saying "hmm that can't be right, time to try something else" when a navigation system tells them to drive off a cliff or into a lake. Those are the people we want to keep. Best of all, both groups self-select so you avoid all the nasty politics of allowing anyone to choose who is who.

Re:A GPS company.

[OzPeter]

So does this mean Apple Maps will stop guiding people out into the middle of nowhere, off cliffs and into lakes?

Do you mean like every other nav system in the world also does?

Re:A GPS company.

[Ol Olsoc]

So was it really kickass ganga, or mediocre acid, dude?

Re:A GPS company.

[wonkey_monkey]

No, but the bodies will start piling up with greater accuracy.

Re:A GPS company.

[Anonymous Coward]

Parent is actually a really good point. Apple Maps' problems have nothing to do with GPS accuracy and everything to do with terrible maps and entirely missing features.

Both the road I live on and the road where I work are misplaced in Apple Maps. This means attempting to use Apple Maps to navigate starting from either location doesn't really work, because it attempts to route you through roads that don't exist in reality. (At home, this includes a bike path that apparently Apple Maps has decided is really a road that you can drive cars down.)

Then there are the missing features. Apple Maps doesn't take traffic into account when generating routes. It doesn't offer an "avoid tolls" options for routes. It doesn't do biking and walking navigation (which might explain why it thinks a bike path is a real road) and it doesn't do public transportation. It doesn't do lanes like Google Maps does. It's just worse in every way.

And that's not counting the misplaced place marks. Even ignoring all the above, chances are, if you attempt to use Apple Maps to navigate to a specific location, while you're likely to end up geographically near it, you may not end up on the correct street and there's no chance the route ends where the place really is.

Improving GPS won't help with any of that. Apple desperately needs better maps and new features. As it stands, the advice remains "throw Apple Maps into your 'Apple shit I never use' folder and just download Google Maps so you can get to where you're trying to go."

Re:A GPS company.

[Anonymous Coward]

> ganga

Re:A GPS company.

[Noah Haders]

I'm curious on two points -- do you live in the US or overseas, and have you used the app lately? I have found that apple has taken the strategy of incremental unannounced improvements, so that things get better over time without a big release.

Second, there's something that apple maps does really well that google maps can't do at all, at least in the iphone -- siri and apple watch integration. It is soooo simple to hold down the home button and say "siri, how do I get home?" and have it automatically pull up the route. obviously, no help at all if it takes you to the wrong place!!!

Re:A GPS company.

[Wheely]

On android google maps is pretty cool. You can say "ok google, take me home/work/xxxÂs house" without pressing anything. You can also say things like "take me to the nearest bar/pizza/ATM" etc. The navigation itself is pretty good and can use public transport if you want it to.

AppleÂs problem when competing with google is that their apps only work on Apple systems. Doing what google has done with street view is a huge undertaking if you are restricted to a smallish percent of the market.

I do understand that Apple wanted to get away from relying on Google for maps but I donÂt think they have succeeded.

Re:A GPS company.

[bobjr94]

I'm just happy with my +/- 12 ft or 3M accuracy. But I know when Apple put this in their Iphone 8 or 9 and advertises improved GPS accuracy, people will be complaining the pre-orders should have started already I need to buy one today....In a mass market mobile device, I still wouldn't expect accuracy greater than 6ft. Commercial gps units, like used by surveyors, can be accurate with in 2MM, but that requires the device to be rock steady and not moved for 45+ minutes.

Re:A GPS company.

[Anonymous Coward]

> not ganga

Re: A GPS company.

[Bootes]

iOS/Apple Maps can do all of that, except for the public transit part.

Re: A GPS company.

[Bootes]

Google has a walking/biking path near my house listed as a road, just like every other mapping service. No maps are perfect.

Cui bono?

[slashdot_commentator]

It strikes me that Apple and Google are two companies competing in different market niches. Apple being hardware, and Google being user information (for advertisers). How does Apple "monetize" its userbase information right now?

Why does Apple feel the compulsion to plow money into an inferior map service? It only benefit their iphone niche until they can't sustain a lower end iphone market.

Re:Cui bono?

[cdrudge]

Why does Apple feel the compulsion to plow money into an inferior map service?

Because Google is the competitor, plus they want full control over the experience. Is it a smart decision to rely on your competitor to provide a service to all your customers because you're too lazy and cheap to do it yourself? Whatever they paid for Coherent Navigation was less than couch change.

Re:Cui bono?

[Anonymous Coward]

Why does Apple feel the compulsion to plow money into an inferior map service?

It is hard to estimate how much it is worth to apple to not have the Google logo on their map service.
Apple is aiming at providing a coherent and complete solution and user experience. If there are third party components in there the customer can get the impression that they can get a similar experience elsewhere.

Sure, there probably is a point where it is just too expensive to keep up that appearance but they have invested quite a lot in the "think different" marketing campaign.
I suspect that they are willing to spend at least the same amount to make sure that the thinking looks different to the one on Android.
Can't "think different" if you are the same.

Re:Cui bono?

[Anonymous Coward]

Without any real competition, I'm guessing that Google's service would get half-assed and inaccurate over time. If Apple depended on Google, service degradation would hit their user-experience and, eventually, their bottom line.

Re:Cui bono?

[Anonymous Coward]

Why does Apple feel the compulsion to plow money into an inferior map service?

Because Google forced them too.

Google was not going to continue to allow the previous Apple developed, Google data backed iOS mapping software without Apple sharing user data with them. The two companies couldn't come to an agreement, so Apple had to develop their own maps.

And I'm glad they did. As a developer, the Apple maps are free to use. That is not true for Google maps.

Re:Cui bono?

[Anonymous Coward]

Google didn't force them, Apple simply just didn't want to pay.

See what I did there?

Re:Cui bono?

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe they want some patent portfolio. If Coherent is the only group doing this finer-grained navigation, it may be because they have the patent on it. Apple might want that in order to give the iDevices a new selling point: more accurate GPS than anything else out there.

Re:Cui bono?

[zieroh]

Google didn't force them, Apple simply just didn't want to pay.

See what I did there?

It wasn't money at stake. It was user privacy. I'm glad Apple didn't "pay".

Re: Cui bono?

[bill_mcgonigle]

Apple is obviously eating companies and barfing up cash like a corporate NoFace at this point - there was a story here just the other day about calculating location to 1/3 meter using DSP on GPS multipath reflections which is good enough for anything but robotic construction. Iridium reception is going to just add cost - the overwhelming trend is cheaper sensors and more processing power.

Re:Cui bono?

[jbolden]

Why does Apple feel the compulsion to plow money into an inferior map service?

I think

1) They don't want to be held hostage
2) They can provide a high degree of integration and services on their mapping service than they could using Google's offering.

It only benefit their iphone niche until they can't sustain a lower end iphone market.

I don't understand this. I'm not sure they won't be moving down market not up market given they own the entire up market. Why wouldn't they be able to sustain a lower end iphone market?

Re:Cui bono?

[_xeno_]

It wasn't money at stake. It was user privacy. I'm glad Apple didn't "pay".

Huh? Apple collects the exact same user information Google does, the change is that they now keep it in-house instead of sharing it. If you value privacy, you won't be using either Google or Apple's products. (And if you value "getting to where you're going," you still won't be using Apple's maps.)

Re:Cui bono?

[Noah Haders]

Further, I think apple is trying to make all iphones go "dark" from google's perspective, the way that fbook is a black box for google. Considering how many people use iphones and how they are a premium product, it must drive goog nuts that they don't know what these people are doing or where they are going.

Re:Cui bono?

[ShanghaiBill]

The computer systems built into cars is a big market, and is soon to become much bigger. The cell phone market is already saturated, and prices are trending down. But look at the computer built into a Tesla, and imagine every car with something like that, as automatic cruise control, lane control, and full self driving cars take off. It is going to be a trillion dollar market. That is what this acquisition is about.

Re:Cui bono?

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

Huh? Apple collects the exact same user information Google does...

Apple has a search engine?

Re:Cui bono?

[rockout]

Lots of people on iPhones use Google Maps.

Re:Cui bono?

[_xeno_]

This thread is about Apple Maps, so yes, Apple has a maps search engine. It's limited to searching for POIs that exist on Apple Maps, but it's there.

Even so, there's nothing preventing Apple from gathering anything you search through using their browser anyway. Whether or not they actually do I can't really say: the privacy policy is vague on what exactly counts as "Apple services" where they absolutely do collect search queries.

Re:Cui bono?

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

And you think that is equally intrusive to Google's services, correct?

Re:Cui bono?

[slashdot_commentator]

But Apple doesn't make cars, or GPS auto map devices.

Apple leases out search; why does it feels compelled to create its inferior mapping service? Why not just license mapquest/whatever, or come to an agreement with Google?

Re:Cui bono?

[slashdot_commentator]

> I'm not sure they won't be moving down market

They'll never move to the lower end of the market, because its tight margins means no profit. They basically will abandon the low end to feature phones and android. Market efficiencies are going to keep driving down the costs of android/feature phones to the point that Apple can't make an obscene profit on outdated iPhones. At that point, Apple will only offer products in the high end market, at an obscene profit margin.

My point is that its not worth burning billions making a mapping service competitive to google. They don't "need" an Apple maps service to keep selling their phones. They don't build their own internet search service. They would be a lot brighter building a high quality Apple cloud service. That would service their phones, tablets, laptop and desktops, give them the ability to provide uniquely user-friendly services, and enable "lock-in". No one takes Apple maps seriously, and once their phones become niche, they will have pumped a ton of money to provide an inferior service. It doesn't make sense from a marketing standpoint.

Re:Cui bono?

[ShanghaiBill]

But Apple doesn't make cars, or GPS auto map devices.

Not yet. But they are investing billions in dashboard systems, navigation, and SDCs.

Why not just license mapquest/whatever, or come to an agreement with Google?

Mapquest data is worse than what Apple has now. Google is going to compete directly with Android-based dashboard systems, and IS building cars, They would be insane to rely on Google. That would be like Ford paying Chrysler to build their engines.

But this particular acquisition isn't about getting access to data. It is about technology. If SDCs are over-reliant on GPS, they are vulnerable if GPS shuts down, or is disabled, or spoofed. This tech will enable them to use Iridium as a backup or supplement, giving them both more accuracy and more redundancy, making their system both more reliable and safer.

Re:Cui bono?

[gnasher719]

Why does Apple feel the compulsion to plow money into an inferior map service? It only benefit their iphone niche until they can't sustain a lower end iphone market.

They are just copying a Google strategy. Google does things just to mess up things for competitors. That's why you have Google Apps (take that, Microsoft!) and Android (take that, Apple!). Maps is just a bit of payback. A few billion dollars that don't end up in Google's pocket. That alone is worth it for Apple.

That said, when was the last time you looked at Apple Maps? Used it in London at the weekend, and it looked quite a bit better than Google maps. On a iPad or iPhone, it is ages better.

Re:Cui bono?

[jbolden]

Apple today only sells to the "high end" of the market. They mostly sell $500+ and they have some share $400-500 with no share below that. Their phone is already niche in the way you claim it will eventually be.

Re:Cui bono?

[Noah Haders]

Yes but it's not the _default_ and it's not used by any of the integrated apple software that uses a map nor does it plug into the contacts etc.

Re:Cui bono?

[mjwx]

Google didn't force them, Apple simply just didn't want to pay.

See what I did there?

It wasn't money at stake. It was user privacy. I'm glad Apple didn't "pay".

Keep telling yourself that, but it doesn't change the fact that it's wrong.

The sticking point that Apple had was that Google wanted Google branding on Google maps. Apple refused and released their woefully inferior Apple Maps. Apple maps was (and still is) so bad they had to break their own rules and approve a stand alone Google maps application.

Re:Cui bono?

[tlhIngan]

It strikes me that Apple and Google are two companies competing in different market niches. Apple being hardware, and Google being user information (for advertisers). How does Apple "monetize" its userbase information right now?

Why does Apple feel the compulsion to plow money into an inferior map service? It only benefit their iphone niche until they can't sustain a lower end iphone market.

Easy - Apple's making money hand over fist. Right now their catchline is "You're not a product - buy an iPhone, and your information is protected". See Tim Cook's comments - their "monetizing" their userbase by not monetizing it, and publicizing that fact.

Apple's plowing money into their own mapping service because Google wants information. It's why Apple didn't renew the Google Maps license - to get stuff like turn-by-turn navigation, Google wanted Apple to display ads and to ante up personal information. Apple balked, and Google didn't give Apple the maps license.

For Google it makes a lot of sense as Google needs to monetize Maps, and iOS is really one of the better platforms for doing so. Apple's refusal means Google loses out, which is why Google has their own Maps app (at least users are now agreeing to sharing their information, plus developers have very limited means of information they can get from iOS).

Apple's way of competing against Google is to not go up against them directly, but to attack them where they're vulnerable. It's why they're having to battle the NSA strongly (admittedly, by being the "last" company to sign up, though even that is disputed).

Re:Cui bono?

[rockout]

The point is that Google doesn't need all the Apple iPhone users to use Google maps. There's millions of them that do. That's a big enough sample size to pretty much know, statistically, where iPhone users are going. Much as you'd like to believe that you're important enough for them to want to know where YOU are, you're not. They just want the trends. They have that.

Re:Cui bono?

[Plumpaquatsch]

Apple maps was (and still is) so bad they had to break their own rules and approve a stand alone Google maps application.

Bullshit. There have been many map/navigation apps long before Apple brought out their "own" Maps (as opposed to their own Maps app that used Google's limited data). So much for braking your made up rules.

Re: Cui bono?

[Plumpaquatsch]

Apple is obviously eating companies and barfing up cash like a corporate NoFace at this point

As opposed to? Google bought 7 companies this years alone. And let's not forget:they also bought "Google" Maps.

mobile GPS precision

[Anonymous Coward]

I can see why Apple is interested in this technology, I am also interested to see better precision of GPS signal for our systems. What navigation systems have to do with the poor quality signal is not great. Using map information to correct for bad signal that bounces around due to reflection and such is not a perfect solution, having a better signal is much better, though I wonder whether map based correction takes less energy than GPS signal correction based on more GPS sources. In any case hope it leads to new and better mobile phone GPS tech.

Life of Iridium satellites

[140Mandak262Jamuna]

The Iridium project bankrupted Motorola (it was motorola right?). Are they putting up new satellites to the Iridium constellation? Did they ever completed it and put up all the planned satellites in orbit? How long are these satellites going to last?

Re:Life of Iridium satellites

[ArcadeMan]

How long are these satellites going to last?

The same duration as anything released over the past few decades: warranty time + one day.

Re:Life of Iridium satellites

[Anonymous Coward]

I think most have a fuel life of 15-20 years,

Re:Life of Iridium satellites

[pushing-robot]

The Iridium project bankrupted Motorola (it was motorola right?). Are they putting up new satellites to the Iridium constellation? Did they ever completed it and put up all the planned satellites in orbit? How long are these satellites going to last?

Iridium Corporation has been healthy since the bankruptcy (amazing what ditching your debts can do...). They've already launched some replacement satellites and are planning to replace the whole network over the next several years.

Re:Life of Iridium satellites

[Anonymous Coward]

Iridiums are not GPS satellites.

Re:Life of Iridium satellites

[whh3]

You are exactly right (about shedding debt), but I don't think that federal contracts hurt either:

U.S. Department of Defense Awards Iridium $400 Million, Five-Year Contract for Iridium® Airtime Services

Re:Life of Iridium satellites

[Anonymous Coward]

Good, cause no one said they were. RTFS.

Just what we don't need

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple didn't disclose the terms of the deal or explain any specific plans for the GPS technology.

Just great, so does that mean in a few years they will claim that they "invented" GPS navigation and demand tribute ... umm ... licensing fees from everyone?

As the story goes...

[marcello_dl]

- What big GPS you have, granny!
- The better to track you with, my dear.

Re:As the story goes...

[UnknowingFool]

You do understand that basic GPS cannot track you, right?

Re:As the story goes...

[BradleyUffner]

You do understand that basic GPS cannot track you, right?

Presumably, since Apple bought them, this technology will be put in phones, which tend to have data connections.

Re:As the story goes...

[UnknowingFool]

And Apple can't do that now with the current technology? This startup's tech may make tracking more precise but it isn't as if suddenly mobile phone tracking will come into place. You've been tracked for years if you have a mobile phone.

Re:As the story goes...

[Anonymous Coward]

Not only can, they do!

For two stated purposes: providing targeted ads (of course) and for building real-time traffic data.

Neither is opt-outable, other than turning off GPS entirely. I'd assume you can just not run the maps application to prevent the real-time traffic data collection but that's not said anywhere, so maybe you can't.

Re:As the story goes...

[marcello_dl]

More accurate data is better data, and data is currency when mobile is involved, no matter if you believe in NSA plots or if you believe it's all about advertisement.

Of course Apple might be only in the process of refining the user experience. My optimum user experience would lie with a nokia n900-like fully programmable SDR with current hardware specs.

Re:As the story goes...

[Archangel Michael]

Yeah, knowing i am in the left side of my couch is really important data!

Re:As the story goes...

[marcello_dl]

Nope, but a sudden increase of the time spent in the bathroom, or a decreased mobility, might be of interest for the medical insurance.

"greater jam resistance"?

[Anonymous Coward]

Sounds like GNSS jamming is becoming more common or something? Pretty much every vendor has jamming resistance as a selling point in their literature now for some reason.

Was accuracy really the problem?

[Voyager529]

I was never an Apple Maps user, but I was always of the persuasion that the map data and the routing logic was the problem, not whether the GPS had a six-foot margin of error instead of a six inch margin of error. Without good routing logic and accurate street maps, all the accuracy in the world won't help with navigation.

Then again, I'm still waiting for Delorme to release Street Atlas for Android.

Re:Was accuracy really the problem?

[Wheely]

I think the map data itself is fine. It works great on a TomTom

Re:Was accuracy really the problem?

[Anonymous Coward]

I am a former Apple Zealot who has a sizable investment in AAPL... something that's I'd prefer not to lose :) So back in the day when the appl maps app came out I was very concerned. I happen to also travel alot, so I realized I needed to just test all of this out as "a sample set of one". I've been using Apple Maps exclusively since its release and I can tell you it is inordinately better than it was when it first came out. Up to date roads, routes, speed limits etc ( appl places where I witnessed errors before ) for all my travels in the midwest and east coast.
  The only thing I see still having frequent issues is locations of businesses and stores. ( for example, on a recent trip to Florida the marker for the Publix near me was marked with the pin at the back side of the store ( where the loading docks are ). Technically this was correct because it's where the actual street from the address is, however it's not what people expect. This is where Google succeeds, they have enough user submitted data and street view data to find many more of these and correct them.
Really it's good enough these days, I haven't had a single dead end or incorrectly routed in the last year and a half at least and that's all Apple needs. To be good enough.

Re:Was accuracy really the problem?

[mean pun]

I was never an Apple Maps user, but I was always of the persuasion that the map data and the routing logic was the problem, not whether the GPS had a six-foot margin of error instead of a six inch margin of error. Without good routing logic and accurate street maps, all the accuracy in the world won't help with navigation.

Although more accuracy always helps, I think the point is not the increased accuracy, but the increased coverage. The first vendor to have reliable indoor positioning will get bags and bags of money. Just think of the navigation in large shopping malls and airports. The Iridium localisation may help in that. If not, a team that is able to mix Iridium into the positioning is also able to mix Apple beacons into the positioning.

Apple does not NEED to monetize user base

[SuperKendall]

How does Apple "monetize" its userbase information right now?

It doesn't, because it doesn't need to (see: Stock Price, cash on hand).

Why does Apple feel the compulsion to plow money into an inferior map service?

Apple maps are superior to Google Maps at this point. They are more readable for one thing (true from the outset) but also I have noticed more errors lately in Google Maps than Apple Maps (and Google Maps always had errors to begin with).

The reason Apple continues forward is because that way they do not have to worry about how users are monetized by other map providers... which you are if you use Google Maps.

Apple's new play

[recharged95]

So instead of The Internet of Things , it'll be The Internet of Apple Things.

Seems logical.
(e.g. moving from platforms to ecosystems).

Re:Apple's new play

[Antique Geekmeister]

It's their core strategy.

Wait until next year

[Folly]

Press release, scheduled Q2 2016:

Tim Cook proudly announces Apple introduction of "Apple Global Positioning System" (iGPS), allowing iPhone, iPad, and MacOS devices to assist you in your daily travels by tracking your location and providing you with that information in near realtime. iGPS will be available on Apple devices starting with iOS10.2.

Mr. Cook said in the presentation, "This is the first time anyone has been able to accurately locate a device like this. We see this technology revolutionizing travel and finally breaking the dependence on outdated paper maps."

In unrelated news, Apple is filing lawsuits against several companies and the US Government for patent infringement.

They can acquire a GPS start-up,

[Anonymous Coward]

but not a battery company? Why didn't they buy the battery company, instead of poaching their engineers?