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AP Computer Science Education Scalability: Advantage, Rupert Murdoch?

theodp writes: Code.org's AP Computer Science offering won't be going mainstream until the 2016-2017 school year. In the meantime, NewsWorks' Avi Wolfman-Arent reports that Rupert Murdoch's Amplify MOOC just wrapped up its second year of offering AP Computer Science A. And unlike Microsoft TEALS, Google CS First, and Code.org — programs constrained by the number of volunteers, teacher and classroom availability, professional development requirements, and money — Murdoch's AP CS MOOC holds the promise of open-access, unlimited-enrollment, learn-anywhere-and-anytime classes, a la Coursera, Udacity and EdX. So, did Microsoft, Google, Amazon, Facebook, and their leaders place a $30 million bet on the wrong horse when it comes to AP Computer Science scalability? And, even if they've got a more scalable model, will Murdoch's Amplify and schools be willing to deal with higher MOOC failure rates, and allow large numbers of students to try — and possibly drop or fail — AP CS without economic or academic consequences?

47 comments

  1. They won't have a high failure rate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They'll soon learn to use google to find out what the expected answers to the tests are.

    Welcome to the modern world.

  2. I'm gonna go out on a limb here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm gonna go way out on a limb here and guess that there's no silver bullet.

  3. Classroom vs self-guided by gabebear · · Score: 4, Informative

    I've taught through TEALS (iOS programmer by day).

    The TEALS program is for high-school. The demographic is primarily Juniors and Seniors, but some Freshmen and Sophomores. Computer Science doesn't count toward the core science requirements in most states(I've taught in Kentucky and New York and neither does). As an elective class you generally get kids signing up who are either really interested or who's parents/guidance-councilor push them, either way they are generally pretty engaged. Ideally, the kids should be ready to take the AP computer science test which will hopefully make it easier to get into the college they want (if they are actually interested in programming).

    These online self-guided lessons are great, but not a replacement for classroom learning.

    1. Re:Classroom vs self-guided by oh_my_080980980 · · Score: 2

      AP Computer Science will have no bearing on a students acceptance into a college. As a teacher you should know that. Stop selling snake oil.

    2. Re:Classroom vs self-guided by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Uh huh. What college uses AP CS as the deciding factor to get in? You're a liar.

    3. Re:Classroom vs self-guided by dmiller1984 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Colleges definetly use advanced courses such as AP as a basis for admission (Advice From a Dean of Admissions on Selecting High School Courses). Whether it's right or not, colleges consider academic "rigor" in high school to admit students, and the AP courses have a standardized curriculum which makes it easier for colleges to judge their difficulty.

    4. Re:Classroom vs self-guided by gabebear · · Score: 1

      Taking AP classes and your scoring well definitely has a bearing on your acceptance to a college. While only some schools will give you credit , I'd hope any college would look at a student's academic record(often by just asking the school's guidance counselor).

    5. Re:Classroom vs self-guided by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I certainly benefited from strong computer teachers. I started with summer programs on teletype machines in middle school learning basic, then mainframes and microcomputers in high school. For most students someone who can direct, facilitate, and curate instruction is very important.

      In high school and middle school there is about three hours of instruction per week, much of it at low efficiency. It is not enough to teach the kids who would learn a skill anyone. We have to try to teach those that might not. Many of these students need direction and observation. Many students are going to become purposefully flummoxed when technical problems occur, real, mythical, or created. I have occasionally seen students turn off the wifi, turn down the screen, rotate the screen, etc when they get frustrated.

      Teaching AP computer science, is in my opinion one level more than something like AP Phyics or AP Chemistry or AP Calculus in term of the number of students who are going to really benefit. This is not computer literacy or office skills. This is really abstract stuff that some are not going to be able to comprehend even at 18. We need a CS program because there are some student in any school who are able to understand that the computer will only do what you tell it, even at 13, and those students need to be nurtured. But where an AP Calculus class might be 20, I am not sure if we could get that many for AP Computer Science. And where AP Calculus is usually back by years of real math instruction, AP CS students usually are coming in with no background.

    6. Re:Classroom vs self-guided by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 4, Insightful

      AP Computer Science will have no bearing on a students acceptance into a college.

      Nonsense. Taking AP classes, and doing well in them, will definitely help you get into the college you want. AP courses are considered "college level" and are a good indicator that a student can succeed in college.

  4. Free 4 All by JimSadler · · Score: 1

    Make it available to everyone and not just schools for free!

    1. Re:Free 4 All by luis_a_espinal · · Score: 1

      Make it available to everyone and not just schools for free!

      That's a demand you can make to the government, not to private entities.

    2. Re:Free 4 All by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dude it is available to everyone for free. It's a MOOC. It also offers a paid component for schools, that provides data and professional services to teachers at a cost. Check it out: mooc.amplify.com. I think the course is finished for the year, but you can probably still access the content.

  5. Re:Subject matter. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

    Fourth post, and here comes the OWS loser filled with all his stupid conspiracy theories and Christian Hate.

    Really dude, just fucking go back to sleep and spare us all your drug addled outrage.

  6. Because by oh_my_080980980 · · Score: 0

    High school students need an AP Computer Science course. When they hit college professors will tell them to unlearn what they think they learned.

  7. Maybe I'm Old by Holi · · Score: 0

    What the hell is a MOOC? Come on if your going to use a new acronym you should define it.

    --
    Sorry, teleporters just kill you and then make a copy. A perfect, soul-less copy.
    1. Re:Maybe I'm Old by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Massive Open Online Course
      (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massive_open_online_course)

    2. Re:Maybe I'm Old by luis_a_espinal · · Score: 3, Insightful

      What the hell is a MOOC?

      You can find a definition here.

      I'm old, but I can use google, and before that Altavista and before that the dreaded usenets. Some of my managers or former managers are in their 60's and they are the first ones to hit that shit (with the browsers in their smart phones if needed) when they encounter an acronym that they don't know. Hell, my mom who is in her 70's and who is not a technical person at all knows how to use google.

      I really don't get the "Maye I'm Old" meme.

      Come on if your going to use a new acronym you should define it.

      The acronym has already been defined for an "eternity" relative to Internet-based technology. You just don't know it (which is fine), and can't find a way to find a meaning for it (which, in a technical-oriented forum, it is not fine.)

    3. Re:Maybe I'm Old by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree in principle, however these are not the articles themselves but summaries/snippets/references to the articles in which the term actually is explained.

    4. Re:Maybe I'm Old by FreeUser · · Score: 1

      I agree. It may only take a few seconds to google, but that's a few seconds unnecessarily wasted because the summary poster was too lazy to provide a definition (though to be fair, with as inaccurate as some summaries have been lately, this isn't the worst offense by far).

      MOOC
      moÍzok/
      noun
      a course of study made available over the Internet without charge to a very large number of people.
      "anyone who decides to take a MOOC simply logs on to the website and signs up"

      --
      The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
  8. "auditing" courses by xxxJonBoyxxx · · Score: 2

    >> schools be willing to deal with higher MOOC failure rates, and allow large numbers of students to try — and possibly drop or fail — AP CS without economic or academic consequences?

    This used to be called "auditing" a course. It's pretty rare to do today, but when college was affordable it used to be a way to try out a course and an instructor before you committed academic consequences.

    1. Re:"auditing" courses by itsenrique · · Score: 1

      If you audit do you not have to go back and it take the class over again for credit?

    2. Re:"auditing" courses by xxxJonBoyxxx · · Score: 1

      >> do you not have to go back and it take the class over again for credit?

      Yes, you do, but the typical pattern seemed to be to stick with an audited course for six weeks or so (the "trial period"), decide you want to take it for real next semester, and then buckle down on your real courses for the rest of the semester.

    3. Re:"auditing" courses by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Watching a taped or video lecture series is similar to auditing a course in the old days. You're getting all the primary instruction, sometimes from a well-known lecturer, but you're missing out on all the homework, collaboration, and exam prep where 85 percent of the actual learning takes place.

  9. Re:Subject matter. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Here, go Hate on Soros for a while.

  10. They want it to fail by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So they get to claim in a decade for more H1B visas and out-sourcing for "skilled" labor.

  11. Just what we needed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Education sponsored by Rupert "The Worm" Murdoch. The world will be a better place the day this individual is gone for good.

  12. Lets hope so by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    the higher the MOOC failure rates the better for me.

  13. Suspicious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Anything Australian immigrant to the United States Rupert Murdoch does should be carefully scrutinized. Murdoch, the founder of Fox News, seems likely to expand a computer science MOOC into other topics. If Murdoch can get his computer science courses taught in schools, then he could in the future get his version, i.e. right-wing whitewashed version, of history taught in schools. Then Murdoch could get his right-wing science courses which deny evolution and climate change and instead teach religion as science into the schools. Don't trust anything Rupert Murdoch does.

  14. AP Computer Science is not AP CS Principles by NovaChild · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Math and (future) CS teacher here (starting a program at my all-girls school next year): Just factually, it's worth noting that AP Computer Science A (the course done by this MOOC and that has been around for many years) and AP Computer Science Principles (the new AP course that code.org, among many others, will offer a curriculum for next year) are designed from the ground up to be wildly different animals.

    AP CS A is a traditional programming course that uses Java as its required language. It goes fairly in depth into topics like algorithms and big-O notation and analysis, but is primarily focused on procedural and OO programming skills. It has a 3-hour exam, mostly multiple choice but with a small "hand-write a program to do x" section as well, as its final assessment.

    AP CS Principles is designed to be a project-based course covering general topics such as abstraction, data and information, using computers for creative expression, the internet, collaborative problem solving, and the global impact of computing, as well as an introduction to programming. Teachers and students can use any programming language they'd like - early curriculum materials exist that use everything from Scratch to Javascript to Python. The assessment consists of a shorter multiple choice test (any programming examples in the test use a very simple, well-defined pseudo-code, rather than requiring specific language knowledge) AS WELL AS two submitted digital projects: one programming project (with both individual and collaborative components) and one research project on global impact of computing. Like the AP Studio Art projects, rubrics and basic guidelines for these projects are required, and readers will be looking for specific knowledge on topics such as abstraction and algorithms, but the project itself is designed and chosen by the students themselves.

    CS Principles is not likely to scale as well to a MOOC (and frankly I have doubts that code.org's implementation will be amazing either). Personally, I'm very excited about the course as we HAVE had a hard time keeping enrollment numbers up for traditional programming courses in my smallish all-girls school - I think this one allows for a little more room for the exploration and creativity that seems to be of more interest to girls.

    1. Re:AP Computer Science is not AP CS Principles by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why is CS Principles an AP class? It sounds like a worthwhile vocational offering at the hs level, but not something that could replace a college course.

    2. Re:AP Computer Science is not AP CS Principles by Gestahl · · Score: 1

      At least when I was in college, there were two intro CS courses: one for STEM majors and one for the non-STEM majors. The non-CS major course still had programming, but was in psuedocode. It had more HTML work, etc. and didn't focus as much on complexity or anything like that (it mentioned it, but it wasn't rigorous or anything). Since this wasn't a university, there were *very* few non-STEM majors. Were there some, I would imagine that there would have been an even easier version for them. In addition, usually in the sophomore year for CS majors, there was a "Computers and Society" course that focused on contemporary legal, social, and philosophical impacts of computing. So, for a CS-track student, it may count for an elective that would normally be run by a liberal arts department. For a non-CS, non-STEM student, it may count as sufficient for an Intro to Computer Science for liberal arts folks.

    3. Re:AP Computer Science is not AP CS Principles by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've been following the development of the AP CS Principles course for awhile. Really, it is a vehicle to attract more people to CS, especially women (creativity, collaboration). All well and good, but now confusion reigns for most people, and NovaChild has accurately described the differences.

    4. Re:AP Computer Science is not AP CS Principles by NovaChild · · Score: 1

      I think you will find many colleges offering a course similar to AP CS Principles right now. In fact, the course curriculum is based on curricula from courses offered at several partner universities, including this course from Berkeley: http://bjc.berkeley.edu/websit...

      It is intended for non-CS majors at the college level, but I think both Berkeley and many high schools (including mine) are hoping that it will be an accessible jumping-off point for students to realize they like CS more than they think. Or, just as importantly, begin to introduce concepts of computing to students who WON'T do it professionally but should know the basic ideas - like, in this age, almost everybody.

  15. Re:Subject matter. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Puleeeze...You morons are the definition of knee jerk. All you need to do it hear the word Fox or Murdoch and you lose your shit.

    You are the last ones to be calling anyone else a Jackass.

  16. TFS couldn't ... by CaptainDork · · Score: 0

    ... tell me what AP was?

    --
    It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
    1. Re:TFS couldn't ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... tell me what AP was?

      You must've been a great student.

    2. Re:TFS couldn't ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      .. Or not American. Terms such as AP and GPA seem perfectly standard in the US - the only place where I imagine they are truly standard. Even in Canada, other terms and measures are generally used in my experience. (E.g. despite going through enriched programs and advanced streams all the way, I don't recall ever hearing anything described as AP in Ontario -- although I'm sure I heard the term at some point or another as a sort of anachronism and ignored it)

      If you run a popular site: Please, please, please define your terms. To not do so is disrespectful and a waste of many peoples' time.

    3. Re:TFS couldn't ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Advanced Placement. It categorizes courses primary taken by High School students which prepare them specifically for university and/or give them college credits. http://giftedkids.about.com/od/glossary/g/ap_courses.htm

    4. Re:TFS couldn't ... by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

      Thank you.

      --
      It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
  17. Re:Subject matter. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Since when is ridicule of young Earth creationism "Christian Hate" ? The vast majority of Christians do not believe in that bullshit.

  18. A wild theory by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Honesty leads to ease of learning in computer science. At least on the logic side. But of course correlation leads to causation.

  19. 1st course:How to hack into 9/11 victims voicemail by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And get away with it! (also crosslisted as Bribery 101 and Extortion 101).

  20. Fewer constraints by russotto · · Score: 1

    Most likely the reason eeeeevil Rupert Murdoch's solution scales better is he wasn't constrained by the problem of keeping people of the wrong gender and ethnicity out of the program.