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Ground Crew Back In Touch With LightSail Solar Spacecraft

Yesterday, we noted that the Planetary Society's solar-sail powered craft had lost radio contact with its controllers here on Earth; Engadget reports that the group has issued an update, and the news is good. From the Society's release: "The solar sailing spacecraft test mission, a precursor to a 2016 mission, has now resumed contact after a suspected software glitch affected communications. The LightSail team will soon determine when to attempt deployment of the spacecraft’s Mylar solar sails."

56 comments

  1. just a though by Pharago · · Score: 2

    would be nice if everything works, when all the tests are done, to put the sail in a continuos orbit around the sun and get as much speed as possible and then send it to alpha centauri and let it take some pictures from there

    1. Re:just a though by CrystalShepard · · Score: 4, Funny

      It would be nice. That way our descendents four or five generations from now can think "how cute!" as they pass it in the RamJets.

    2. Re:just a though by KGIII · · Score: 1

      I am not sure if RAM jets (or SCAM jets) would work so very well in space unless they carried their own oxygen and, even still, I am not immediately seeing how this would provide propulsion for any length of time.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    3. Re:just a though by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "RamJets"??? What does that mean with that capitalization? And what exactly do you expect an air-breathing engine to do in space? And why do you think this solar sail would get anywhere near Alpha Centauri in 4 or 5 generations?

    4. Re:just a though by meerling · · Score: 3, Informative

      Wrong Ramjet
      Try checking out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bussard_ramjet

    5. Re:just a though by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      Or EM drives

    6. Re:just a though by Pharago · · Score: 1

      the thing is that if you leave the solar sail orbiting the sun for enough time, it might be theoretically possible for it to achieve near light speed velocity, I haven't done any calculations and so it's almost whishful thinking, but at 10% c it would arrive in just 40 years

    7. Re:just a though by garyisabusyguy · · Score: 1

      Probably not a conventional ramjet
      "In a ramjet, the high pressure is produced by "ramming" external air into the combustor using the forward speed of the vehicle"
      https://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/k...

      Perhaps you mean the Bussard ramjet or ramscoop
      "The Bussard ramjet is a theoretical method of spacecraft propulsion proposed in 1960 by the physicist Robert W. Bussard, popularized by Poul Anderson's novel Tau Zero, Larry Niven in his Known Space series of books, Vernor Vinge in his Zones of Thought series, and referred to by Carl Sagan in the television series and book Cosmos. Bussard ramscoops are also seen in Star Trek, where they are situated at the glowing tips of the warp nacelles of spacecraft, although the hydrogen is not used as nuclear fuel."
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B...

      I like the idea since it would consume the hydrogen that could potentially pierce the spacecraft at relativistic speeds

      --
      Wherever You Go, There You Are
    8. Re: just a though by sanmadjack1624 · · Score: 1

      Dude, chill. Google bussard ramjet, it's not what you think it is.

    9. Re:just a though by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      42 km/s is escape velocity from the solar system. That's only 1/7000th the speed of light.

    10. Re:just a though by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And the matter that close in would tear it apart would tear it apart fairly quickly.

      Well, I suspect at any significant proportion of lightspeed matter would tear it apart even if it were outside the solar system.

      The thoeretical ramscoop solves some of that, what it doesn't solve is drag, both from matter and stray fields.

    11. Re:just a though by KGIII · · Score: 1

      Ah, some theoretical thing with a name similar to an already real jet. I thought I must be missing something because it made no sense to me. Thanks for the link!

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    12. Re:just a though by thesupraman · · Score: 3, Informative

      1 - as others have pointed out, you are barking up the wrong tree - these are bussard ramjets, not the type you are thinking of.
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bussard_ramjet

      2 - normal ramjets are alive and well and very functional thank you very much - not even new tech.
      Several countries have been using RAMJETS for some time: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BrahMos

      3 - what I suspect you are thinking about SCRAMjets (supersonic combustion..), while rare, are also functional now and have passed
      the point of being considered a scam as they once were, for example you can watch one here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6K_rzuSuqIg
      The Russians and Indians seem quite happy with their SCRAMJETS : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BrahMos-II

    13. Re:just a though by meerling · · Score: 1

      "Jet" can be, and has been, applied to a lot of technologies, but there's no way that NASA could even try to develop it on their budget. So far we haven't even gotten a manned mission to Mars, so one to Alpha Centauri, or any other star system, is pretty much a moot point.
      For now it's just science fiction until somebody will lay apply the necessary resources.

    14. Re:just a though by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sadly, Bussard Ramjets actually are still thought to be a bit of a scam as well.

      Drag on the interstellar medium that they use for fuel is significant enough to stop them functioning as ramjets in the first place IIRC.

    15. Re:just a though by Brett+Buck · · Score: 1

      It has long been proven that the drag of accumulating the hydrogen greatly exceeds the possible thrust. It's more like a parachute than it is an engine.

         

    16. Re:just a though by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "RamJets"??? What does that mean with that capitalization? And what exactly do you expect an air-breathing engine to do in space?

      Jet is a generic term, implying a directed stream of material, especially a fluid material. It does not necessarily imply that the production of such a jet requires an air-breathing engine in any way (pressurized canisters, rockets, etc. are allowed). Perhaps you've confused it with a gas turbine, which is used in turbojet, turbofan, and turboprop engines, among other uses, which indeed are air-breathing.

      FYI, you could look up Bussard ramjet for an outline of the technology. However, Bussard cruiser is less helpful.

    17. Re:just a though by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      to put the sail in a continuos orbit around the sun

      Even if they have a successful sail deployment, this craft isn't going anywhere except back into the earth's atmosphere to burn up. There's too much aero drag for the thrust of the sail to overcome. But a future iteration deployed in a higher orbit will be able to maneuver without reentering.

    18. Re:just a though by Lumpy · · Score: 1, Insightful

      The fault of that lies in Congress.

      Spend Middle East War money on NASA and science and it goes a lot faster.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    19. Re:just a though by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      Proven? when did they run that experiment? You have to get up to about 0.05% C to even get them to start working and nobody has launched a test craft.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    20. Re:just a though by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It would appear that there are some major caveats to consider with that analysis.

      Robert Zubrin and Dana Andrews analyzed one hypothetical version of the Bussard ramscoop and ramjet design in 1985. They determined that their version of the ramjet would be unable to accelerate into the solar wind. However, in their calculations they assumed

      1. The exhaust velocity of their interplanetary ion propulsion ramjet could not exceed 100,000 m/s (100 km/s);
      2. The largest available energy source could be a 500 kilowatt nuclear fission reactor.

      In the Zubrin/Andrews interplanetary ramjet design, they calculated that the drag force d/dt(mv1) equals the mass of the scooped ions collected per second multiplied by the velocity of the scooped ions within the solar system relative to the ramscoop. The velocity of the (scooped) collected ions from the solar wind was assumed to be 500,000 m/s.

      The exhaust velocity of the ions when expelled by the ramjet was assumed not to exceed 100,000 m/s. The thrust of the ramjet d/dt(mv2) was equal to the mass of ions expelled per second multiplied by 100,000 meters per second. In the Zubrin/Andrews design of 1985, this resulted in the condition that d/dt(mv1) > d/dt(mv2). This condition resulted in the drag force exceeding the thrust of the hypothetical ramjet in the Zubrin/Andrews version of the design.

    21. Re:just a though by Immerman · · Score: 1

      No, I'm pretty sure it's the other way around - there's now a real jet which adopted the name of a theoretical fusion engine that had been designed decades before.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    22. Re:just a though by KGIII · · Score: 1
      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    23. Re:just a though by Immerman · · Score: 1

      No, it's been shown that one particular hypothetical design based on one particular set of assumptions would not be viable. Not that the fundamental concept is flawed. There's a post a few pages up that gives more details.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    24. Re:just a though by KGIII · · Score: 1

      Decades before 1913? I am not entirely sure that I believe you and I am to search. So, yeah, I think you might be making stuff up.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    25. Re:just a though by Immerman · · Score: 1

      Hmm, my mistake - the ramjet does appear to predate Doctor Bussard considerably - clearly my avionics history is lacking.

      On the other hand, Arthur C. Clarke credits "L'Autre Monde: ou les États et Empires de la Lune" (1657) as both being the first example of rocket-powered space flight and for inventing the ramjet. Though I would imagine they probably discussed something similar to a conventional ramjet, fusion having not yet been imagined. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramjet#Cyrano_de_Bergerac)

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    26. Re:just a though by KGIII · · Score: 1

      Now that is interesting. The ramjet I was thinking about and linked to would probably get someone into space if one had enough fuel. They are not very complex and work best at high speeds. The V1 had a lot in common with a ramjet as well IIRC. They scale well is my understanding but I do not know how well they would do in space with the added weight penalty from having to carry their own oxygen.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    27. Re:just a though by KGIII · · Score: 1

      Also, I just read my earlier post... Wow... I blame weed.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    28. Re:just a though by jkabbe · · Score: 1

      You'd never get to see the pictures in any case (nor would any human anytime soon).

  2. SourceForge.net is spreading adware installers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    SourceForge, the code repository site owned by Slashdot Media, has apparently seized control of the account hosting GIMP for Windows on the service, according to e-mails and discussions amongst members of the GIMP community—locking out GIMP's lead Windows developer. And now anyone downloading the Windows version of the open source image editing tool from SourceForge gets the software wrapped in an installer replete with advertisements.

    Link to original source
    The GIMP developers aren't happy at all about this. They say that Sourceforge impersonated the GIMP developers, and abused the trademarks owned by the GNOME foundation.

    1. Re:SourceForge.net is spreading adware installers by aardvarkjoe · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's funny, the Slashdot editors used to be aware of the Streisand effect. Apparently they still haven't learned not to try to hide something that's already been publicized widely on the internet.

      --

      How can we continue to believe in a just universe and freedom to eat crackers if we have no ale?
    2. Re:SourceForge.net is spreading adware installers by nadaou · · Score: 5, Insightful

      From a technical standpoint (and that's why we're here isn't it?) the Streisand Effect is actively trying to supress a nibble of information that wants desperately to be free. Which isn't really the case here. Here we have the editors silently ignoring an up-rated story on the firehose in the hope that if it goes away they won't get shit from their corporate overlords. They aren't filing public documents to make it so. Presumably they already have got the shit come down from on high and they don't feel that they're completely irreplaceable.

      You want to stir the shit? Get the quashing story on Soylent News or wherever people with a beef hang out.

      As for me, just another journalistic straw broken in my respect for the good 'ol site.

      --
      ~.~
      I'm a peripheral visionary.
    3. Re:SourceForge.net is spreading adware installers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      "Most of the Apache Foundation's projects—including Allura, Derby, Directory Studio, the Apache HTTP server, Hadoop, OpenOffice, Solr, and Subversion;"

      This is absolutely fucking disgusting. Have all the fucking ads you want on your site, but DO NOT FUCKING TOUCH THE DEV ACCOUNTS AND MODIFY BINARIES

      This is evil incarnate. I hope someone takes the initiative and sues the living shit for damage to reputation.

    4. Re: SourceForge.net is spreading adware installers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The story was on Soylent already, long ago.

    5. Re:SourceForge.net is spreading adware installers by rewindustry · · Score: 1

      please make it so, the roots of this disease go deep, and the creeps responsible must be purged.

    6. Re:SourceForge.net is spreading adware installers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the Streisand Effect is actively trying to supress a nibble of information that wants desperately to be free.

      If this information doesn't desperately want to be free, why am I reading these threads on every story? This is a textbook case of the Streisand Effect.

    7. Re:SourceForge.net is spreading adware installers by ultranova · · Score: 1

      This is evil incarnate.

      So... Hitler was reborn as Slashdot? That explains why this place is so obsessed with karma.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    8. Re:SourceForge.net is spreading adware installers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thank you for passing this information on.

      One day, as soon as we've fixed all the bugs, we will stamp out all the jerks.

      Personally I think we should stamp out the jerks first, then the bugs won't matter.

      Kick out the jams, people, let's get it done.

    9. Re:SourceForge.net is spreading adware installers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It was already on Soylent. I was confused at first about these posts complaining about it not being posted because I had remembered seeing a story on it and had forgotten it was on Soylent and not on Slashdot.

    10. Re:SourceForge.net is spreading adware installers by toddestan · · Score: 1

      Actually, the Streisand Effect is where something becomes known to people specifically because of the efforts to suppress it. Or in other words, the efforts to suppress something bring attention to something that likely would have otherwise been overlooked and ignored.

  3. Communications Engine by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "The solar sailing spacecraft test mission, a precursor to a 2016 mission..."

    Uh huh. Lets hope they get a good communications engineer to help them before then. The previous thread on this was full of general embedded practice advice (mostly all good) but one very important thing was not mentioned:

    You need the telemetry and command/control hardware to *not* depend on the OS that is running. Ideally, you would even have a simple state machine that continues to send a beacon when the processor is b0rked, and in that case will respond to a (limited set) of simple commands directly in hardware.

    This is easy to do. One thing in the other thread that was quite funny are comments along the lines of "it's not like we have to use an 1802 these days..." Except that if there was a 1802 COSMAC in there to deal with basic housekeeping, you could have kicked your linux easily... there is a reason these expensive Silicon on Sapphire chips have occasionally still been used recently... radiation immunity and extreme simplicity, think of it like a remote control.

  4. Even better by tomhath · · Score: 1

    Land it on Mars and use the mylar sail to cover a cave entrance. A great habitat would be waiting for the colonists. Sure, there are a couple of techincal challanges with either idea - but that can be worked out in the software.

  5. Perfect example, never use PHP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The engineers first thought to write a backend closely adapted to the hardware of the spacecraft, then they saw how PHP just worked and so quickly. This is the fucking result. Never use PHP!!

  6. Fix the csv issue? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Are they going to fix the problem or just keep manually rebooting?

    1. Re:Fix the csv issue? by Megane · · Score: 1

      Why do they need to, now that they've found a finger long enough to push the button again?

      --
      #naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
    2. Re:Fix the csv issue? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They don't have continuous control of the satellite,and only get telemetry and command control during passes over the two ground stations, but other listening stations can try to gather packets, and they do want these for later analysis. If they get new information on a pass, they have to do any thinking while they have no access, since passes only last minutes. An hour and a half later they can act if the satellite is still in contact (and they're not in the 12 hour window when the pass is in the wrong hemisphere). If something has changed during the pass, they might not want to send the old orders.

      Another pass over north America is coming up in ~10 minutes. 437.435 MHz FM (+-10 MHz for Doppler).

    3. Re:Fix the csv issue? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      (+-10 kHz for Doppler)
      FTFY.

    4. Re:Fix the csv issue? by sconeu · · Score: 1

      Probably upload a patch that purges or swaps the CSV file as it approaches 32MB.

      Or else use thefinglonger...

      --
      General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
    5. Re:Fix the csv issue? by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      A 640,000,000 mile long reset finger oughtta be long enough for anyone.

  7. Re: cach lam bai thi mon van thpt quoc gia by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 1

    Badum TISH!

  8. How about? by rewindustry · · Score: 1

    SourceFarce MUST allow reporting and discussion of it's actions here on SlashOwned, or we WILL know the reason why?

  9. Beware the 'Pizza Delivery Syndrome' by TheRealHocusLocus · · Score: 1

    The fault of that lies in Congress.
    Spend Middle East War money on NASA and science and it goes a lot faster.

    You cannot successfully argue against war itself as a waste of human resources or a needless monetary expense. Sure you can philosophize and get a show of nodding heads in peacetime, but then something awful happens and someone shouts "Remember the Maine!" or "Hitler will invade the UK, then Mexico!" or "Let's get Bin Laden!" and all is moot. Inquiring line items is useful... such as whether ~$60 billion disappeared while out-sourcing the supply line or whether airlifting $40 billion in 'unmarked bills' into Iraq was a great idea.

    Be sure to tune in C-SPAN today [Sunday] at 4:00pm ET to see how many senators believe the Patriot Act is a good thing. But I'd bet my bottom dollar that all the NSA rhetoric will center on so-called 'call metadata sharing agreements' with nary a word about full content backbone taps which are the greatest threat.

    Government spending is a mysterious process. When it is time for the Fed to mint virtual money for Quantitative Easing, bail out banks by easing their losses, or the Federales to finance wars by raising the trade deficit ceiling and selling bonds to the Chinese we are awash in Magical Unicorn Money. When it is budget time every cent is haggled or omnibussed. Clearly this beast has two heads.

    But you have to get more specific than 'military spending'. Pick something, anything and try to start a grass roots movement to attack it. Or better yet, just spend your time 'selling' space exploration in all of its forms. Neil deGrasse Tyson wasn't completely joking when he suggests that a militarized space race with China (or rumors thereof) would jump-start the process. A new Cold War would certainly unlock that Magical Unicorn Money. It may seem odd but weaponizing space is actually a good idea.

    But there is something I call the 'Pizza Delivery Syndrome', where someone desirous of something, say a Space Program, will seize upon a money-factoid such as this

    cite "Consumers spend around 33 billion U.S. dollars in quick service pizza restaurants each year in the United States. Takeout pizza constitutes the largest share of spending within this category at nearly 15 billion U.S. dollars annually, followed by pizza delivery at around ten billion. This is perhaps unsurprising considering more than 20 percent of U.S. consumers eat takeout or delivered meals at least once a week. While older generations appear less dependent on such services, around 40 percent of 18 to 54 year olds felt that takeout food was essential to their way of life as of November 2014..."

    and create, out of thin air, some hypothetical world where every one who desires a pizza is visited by a Fairy Godmother who smiles and asks, do you really want that pizza or could we all fulfill mankind's most glorious dream? Your wish is my command. In this scenario they always choose the pizza, statistics show. It serves as foundation for acerbic commentary on the wretched excess of modern humans. This is a dead end because (on the whole) people would rather talk about pizza than space.

    Ask not what pizza lovers can do for you.
    Ask what you can do to send pizza into

    --
    <blink>down the rabbit hole</blink>
  10. much more basic... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They apparently forgot that you have to keep the string tight between the tin cans.