Prenda Gets Hit Hard With Contempt Sanctions For Lying To Court

walterbyrd writes: Team Prenda has been beaten up by the courts once again. Given all of the flat out deceit, it's actually a bit anti-climactic that the court has ordered sanctions of just $65,263 against Steele and Hansmeier for contempt of court. As for the obstruction of discovery, the court orders Duffy and Steele to pay Booth Sweet's costs, which the lawyers are told to submit. Some people are still wondering why none of this pattern of deceit, lying and abuse of the court system has not resulted in anything more serious.

Comments

Popehat

[maroberts]

If you want an amusing yet informative read on Prenda's exploits, Popehat is the place to go

Re:Popehat

[T.E.D.]

If you want an amusing yet informative read on Prenda's exploits, Popehat [popehat.com] is the place to go

Best lines:

The judges were openly incredulous of this strategy. "You want us to send this back for criminal contempt proceedings?" asked Judge Tallman, with the air of a parent asking a toddler whether he really wants to hurl himself down the stairs. "Do you understand that the maximum penalty for contempt is life imprisonment?" I lost a little urine at this point.

...and...

Pregerson followed with perhaps the most devastating line I've ever heard used against a lawyer:

Pregerson: And you're a great lawyer.

Voelker: I appreciate you saying that, Your Honor.

Pregerson: I mean, it says so, right there on your web site.

Because the court doesn't punish the evil

[Anonymous Coward]

Only the good and innocent who trust it. Don't you know anything about our justice system?

Re:Because the court doesn't punish the evil

[gweihir]

"To my friends, everything; to my enemies, the law." The law has become nothing but a tool of oppression and power, with an elaborate cover story to make that not too obvious. All that pontification about "right" and "wrong" serves only to obscure that these days it is (again) basically "do as you are told" and nothing else.

Don't get me wrong, I believe that law can be done in a way that is beneficial and sets sensible borders to acceptable behavior that can be understood and found to be valid and sensible by anybody. As it is done today, it is a gravy-train for lawyers which have basically taken over the state and run it in collusion with the rich. In addition, it serves to keep anybody that could do something about it in check. Talk about a hostile takeover of a whole society.

Simple Answer

[Anonymous Coward]

It's ok to be a con-man, you just have to be a lawyer as well.

lawyers don't punish lawyers

[Revek]

The lawyers union sticks together.

Re:lawyers don't punish lawyers

[Darinbob]

I think it's more about judges not wanting to give out huge contempt penalties. The contempt judgements come at the judge's own discretion, with no presentation of evidence. So a judge giving a large contempt penalty may be worried about looking capricious, worried about hurting their own good name, etc.

Lawyers can and will backstab each other, there's no friendship or comeraderie.

Prenda?

[hooiberg]

I am so ignorant to have absolutely no clue what this is about? What is this 'Prenda' of which you speak?

Re:Prenda?

[tiberus]

Ditto . . .

Prenda Law a.k.a. Team Prenda

Prenda Law, also known as Steele | Hansmeier PLLP and Anti-Piracy Law Group,[3] was a Chicago-based law firm that ostensibly operated by undertaking litigation against copyright infringement, but was later characterized by the United States District Court for Central California in a May 2013 ruling as a "porno-trolling collective"[4]:2 whose business model "relies on deception",[4]:8 and which resembled most closely a conspiracy[4]:FOF.1 p.3 and racketeering enterprise,[4]:p.10 referring in the judgment to RICO, the United States Federal anti-racketeering law.[4]:p.10[5] The firm ostensibly dissolved itself in July 2013 shortly after the adverse ruling[6] (although onlookers describe Alpha Law Firm LLC as its apparent replacement[7]), while in 2014, ABA Journal-Law News described the "Prenda Law saga" as entering "legal folklore".[8] [...]

My head hurts now

Re:Prenda?

[Anonymous Coward]

If only there was some sort of distributed information system that could provide you with the knowledge you desire.

Also there second link *in the summary* provides context.

Re:Prenda?

[Greyfox]

Just a bunch of mindless jerks who will be first against the wall when the revolution comes.

What? I've been waiting for decades for a question that line would make a good answer to!

Re:Prenda?

[ArcadeMan]

And what the hell have you been doing for all these decades? Parking cars?!

Re:Prenda?

[Anonymous Coward]

There is this tech site, Ars Tecnhica, that does the job slashdot usually did.

Re:Prenda?

[MozeeToby]

TL;DR.

A group of lawyers who set up a system of shell companies to send out settlement records to people downloading illegal pornography. The lawyers were utterly eviscerated when one judge and defending attorney finally said "what's this then?" and starting looking into their actions.

Highlights include:
Shell companies set up using other people's identities without their knowledge.
Sending out settlement letters for works they don't own the rights to.
Setting the settlement price at just below the cost of an adequate defense.
Failure to show up when summoned to court.
Lying to the court... so... so many times.
Not paying the settlements levied against them.

And this wasn't a single court hearing. This was over dozens of court appearances over a timespan of well over a year. They continue to dig the hole they find themselves in deeper and deeper. The saddest part of the whole mess (other than all the people that they bilked out of thousands of dollars) is that they still haven't been disbarred.

Re:Prenda?

[iamgnat]

He lost his towel

Re:Prenda?

[Anonymous Coward]

If only there were some sort of a communication medium where many people from all over the world could discuss such things, instead of just looking it up.

Re:Prenda?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm guessing that the word "discuss" does not mean what you think it means.

Re:Prenda?

[idontgno]

Not paying the settlements levied against them.

This is the crux of the current brouhaha. The Prenda weasels are blowing off settlements, claiming extreme poverty while desperately shoving huge amounts of money into wholly-owned shell companies and hidden bank accounts.

I want to ask "why are these walking cancer tumors still breathing?", but that's a little extreme. Just a little.

Why are they walking around free? In a just world, they'd be cooling their heels behind bars.

Re:Prenda?

[stabiesoft]

In a just world, they'd be dead. They have already proven they will do it again.

Re:Prenda?

[Greyfox]

Well the first couple I spent in a giant gin and tonic. It kind of went down hill after that.

Re:Prenda?

[Anonymous Coward]

are you implying he has a brain the size of a planet?

"Some people"

[guises]

"Some people" are wondering things? Who? I see no links to that particular claim.

I seems like the submitter had intended to say "i am wondering" but decided to go all Fox News on it. We can do better than this.

Re:"Some people"

[Anonymous Coward]

Where do you think you are, wikipedia? This is slashdice, ain't no citations needed here, buddy.

Nothing in Summary

[Anonymous Coward]

To tell you what any of this is about. Dicedot, you need better clickbait if you want to get those sweet page impressions.

why haven't they been disbarred?

[Gravis Zero]

seriously, isn't the a good example of lawyers that should be disbarred? lying to the court and using the law to harass seems like good reasons to disbar a lawyer.

Re:why haven't they been disbarred?

[bernywork]

I do believe this is in the works, they have been referred, but the court can only judge this case. It can't disbar them, that's the bar associations job.

Re:why haven't they been disbarred?

[gstoddart]

AFAIK, it's not the court who does the disbarring, it's the Bar Society -- which is the professional organization.

I think that now the Bar Society might start taking a look.

But I think it's fairly plain that Booth Sweet and John Steele are lying bastards who have been using the courts for their own profit and generally being dishonest assholes, so hopefully whoever does have authority over the disbarring gets on with it quickly.

Basically they ran a shakedown racket, repeatedly lied to the courts, and lied to the courts in the investigation about lying to the courts.

A credit to their profession as a bunch of oily, thieving bastards.

Re:why haven't they been disbarred?

[Anonymous Coward]

seriously, isn't the a good example of lawyers that should be disbarred?

Because a legal process takes time.

Re:why haven't they been disbarred?

[monkeyxpress]

One of them resigned to avoid being disbarred. Looks better on his CV I guess.

http://boingboing.net/2014/01/...

Re:why haven't they been disbarred?

[Anonymous Coward]

Only for justice. Injustice can be done before finishing the morning breakfast.

It's why plea deals are so popular, quick, easy, and who cares if the wrong pleading is made? It's over.

Re:why haven't they been disbarred?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm more curious as to why they haven't been arrested. If I were charged with contempt of court, I'd expect to be behind bars.

Re:why haven't they been disbarred?

[tompaulco]

AFAIK, it's not the court who does the disbarring, it's the Bar Society -- which is the professional organization.

I think that now the Bar Society might start taking a look.

If the Bar association won't disbar them, then the judge needs to remove the recognized authority of the Bar Association. perhaps then they will sit up and take notice. But I guess that is a catch 22, since the judge will then have no more legal authority either. I guess this is why they let the farce continue.

Re:why haven't they been disbarred?

[gstoddart]

I honestly don't know the entire mechanics, but it may well be that any action by the Bar Association doesn't happen until after the courts have made a ruling.

I mean, it's the professional standards body of a bunch of lawyers ... you can bet your ass there's rules and procedures which must be followed.

It sure as hell won't be a process which is sensible to anybody else.

Re:why haven't they been disbarred?

[Anonymous Coward]

seriously, isn't the a good example of lawyers that should be disbarred? lying to the court and using the law to harass seems like good reasons to disbar a lawyer.

To hell with disbarment, these people need extensive prison time. If *I* got caught running a criminal extortion operation I would be facing 25-to-life FOR EACH COUNT!

Re:why haven't they been disbarred?

[Khyber]

Resigning doesn't avoid disbarment. He still passed the Bar Exam, yes? They can still take that away from him.

Re:why haven't they been disbarred?

[bev_tech_rob]

seriously, isn't the a good example of lawyers that should be disbarred? lying to the court and using the law to harass seems like good reasons to disbar a lawyer.

At the very least, shouldn't these lawyers be thrown IN JAIL for contempt at the very least? If Joe Blow was hauled into court and made one white lie to the judge, his ass would be in jail for 90 days!

Re:why haven't they been disbarred?

[enilnomi]

"Booth Sweet" is not a player in this game...you seem to be thinking of Jason Sweet and Dan Booth, the lawyers who unraveled the finances of John Steele, Paul Hansmeier, and Paul Duffy.

Re:why haven't they been disbarred?

[bev_tech_rob]

I hate my redundant sentences.....

Slap on the wrist for Steele and Hansmeier

[Anonymous Coward]

$65K, is that all? After the massive injustice they propagated on Booth Sweet, coupled with the lying and abuse of the court system, makes me flat out disgusted.

And I might be even more angry if I had even the faintest idea of what Prenda was and who any of these gentleman are. Both TFS and the TechDirt piece assume the reader knows all about it.

Re:Slap on the wrist for Steele and Hansmeier

[Darinbob]

Plus they have to pay the legal fees for the whole mess, which will far more expensive. That's likely the real reason they are fighting this until they're bankrupt.

Is there one lawyer who isn't a lying fuck?

[Required Snark]

Reading this, and based on my personal experience, I doubt it.

How many laws do attorneys have to break before they face something beyond a fine? 100? 1000? 10000? If you read the Prenda law articles, it's clear that if a non-lawyer did even one of those things, they would already be in jail by now. Those bastards lied their fucking teeth out, and made real good money doing so. And all they have to pay is a fine. BFD.

New policy. If you see someone in a car accident, or anywhere in public suffering a medical emergency, and you figure out it's a fucking lawyer, leave it to die or live on it's own. If we lived in a just world, you would be allowed to kill it.

I've earned my hostility. Some shithole incompetent attorneys made my life hell for five years or so. There were at least three of them who couldn't find their ass in a well lit room given a full set of written directions. They finally subcontracted to someone who knew what he was doing, and it got sorted out. I don't know what was worse: they fact that they took on work that was beyond them, or the fact that it took years for them to admit/realize they were complete losers.

Punch a lawyer in the face today. You'll be glad you did.

Re:Is there one lawyer who isn't a lying fuck?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, by all means, let us condemn and entire industry because of your real-world, terrible experience, or the assholes mentioned in the Prenda story. Yes, that's perfectly logical and is a sensible, productive way to run society. I mean, what could possibly go wrong?

Re:Is there one lawyer who isn't a lying fuck?

[sjames]

We condemn the entire industry because those are just a drop in the bucket of bad experiances. It seems the bad apples spoil the remaining 10%.

Re:Is there one lawyer who isn't a lying fuck?

[tompaulco]

Yes, by all means, let us condemn and entire industry because of your real-world, terrible experience, or the assholes mentioned in the Prenda story. Yes, that's perfectly logical and is a sensible, productive way to run society. I mean, what could possibly go wrong?

Yes, it is definitely wrong to judge a group based on just one member, but how about when 90% or more of it's members are an issue? I have known dozens of lawyers, and I have known one that was a useful and good person. Of the others, I will admit that most of them weren't openly evil, just evil by being useless and not doing their job when some other lawyer was attempting to do you evil. However, in some circumstances I have worked for lawyers and in those cases, the lawyer was quite definitely openly evil such that I will never again work for a company that has a lawyer in its upper management.

Re:Is there one lawyer who isn't a lying fuck?

[Anonymous Coward]

10%? You must be i a good mood today.

Re:Is there one lawyer who isn't a lying fuck?

[MightyMartian]

As someone who was the victim of a litigation started by greedy family members using a lawyer who failed at some his basic fiduciary responsibilities, I can concur that there are some damned shady, or just as often incompetent lawyers. In a nutshell, my grandmother gave me a piece of property, some family members agreed with that while she was still of sound mind, but as soon as she started suffering dementia, they got a lawyer to sue my ass off. This lawyer was effectively acting as my grandmother's legal council, and he never actually even met her. That was one among a number of serious ethical lapses that ended up costing me about $100,000 (my legal costs plus the pay out I made because, I confess, three years of legal hell just made me make the problem go away).

But to counter that awful story, my lawyer, who cost me about 40% of that $100k, was absolute fantastic, worth every penny, and who would inform me before making statements or depositions that I wasn't to lie and was to take my oath to tell the truth seriously.As with all occupations, the fact that there are bad, even sociopathically evil lawyers, does not mean all lawyers are of a similar bent.

Re:Is there one lawyer who isn't a lying fuck?

[Anonymous Coward]

I mean, what could possibly go wrong?

Less than what goes wrong with not holding the legal profession to the strictest standards of behavior.

That erodes trust. That makes people question the supposed keepers of law. That makes people resentful, angry, and full of hate. They feel the law and its systems are used against them.

And when so much of Congress is from those who have passed the bar?

That will lead to a very expensive bill to pay.

Re:Is there one lawyer who isn't a lying fuck?

[Theaetetus]

Reading this, and based on my personal experience, I doubt it.

Perhaps you should re-read it, considering that there's a lawyer on the other side that's taking Prenda down.

How many laws do attorneys have to break before they face something beyond a fine? 100? 1000? 10000? If you read the Prenda law articles, it's clear that if a non-lawyer did even one of those things, they would already be in jail by now. Those bastards lied their fucking teeth out, and made real good money doing so. And all they have to pay is a fine. BFD.

That's because before someone goes to jail, you have to have a trial and a conviction. And while Prenda's cases have been dismissed with prejudice, and they've had to pay damages and fines for sanctions, they haven't been criminally charged. You know, for someone whining about lawyers, you sure don't know much about the legal system.

Re:Is there one lawyer who isn't a lying fuck?

[MMC Monster]

My experience is a bit better. Most of the lawyers I've dealt with were aggressively defending my rights.

That being said, those were all fairly high-priced lawyers who have had decades of experience before I chose them. In addition, they were all highly recommended before I ever contacted them.

I guess it's just another example of 'you get what you pay for'.

Re:Is there one lawyer who isn't a lying fuck?

[drinkypoo]

I guess it's just another example of 'you get what you pay for'.

In this case, I believe the phrase is "exactly as much justice as you can afford"

Re:Is there one lawyer who isn't a lying fuck?

[Anonymous Coward]

What do you expect?

We keep electing lawyers to be legislators, then complain when they make laws that benefit lawyers.

And when they're just being lawyers, they're at best consultants, at average they're hired guns, and at worst are attack dogs on a leash.

Re:Is there one lawyer who isn't a lying fuck?

[Anonymous Coward]

Lawyers rank right behind CEOs as the profession with the highest number of psychopaths:
http://time.com/32647/which-professions-have-the-most-psychopaths-the-fewest/

"Team Prenda"

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you sure that shouldn't be "Team Pretenda"?

Don't assume we all know what Prenda is

[wonkey_monkey]

A little hint about what Prenda is and why they're in court would've been nice. We can't all read and recall every single Slashdot story that has come before.

And no, I shouldn't "Google it" or "RTFA." That's the whole point of a summary (and the article isn't much more informative, in any case). I should be able to work out whether I'm interested in reading the story without resorting to another source.

Some comments about the US legal system

[Zontar_Thing_From_Ve]

My best friend for many years is a lawyer and he's taught me a lot about how the legal system really works. I can assure you that non-lawyers almost never understand the reality of the US legal system. Judges rarely like to sanction lawyers like has happened to Prenda. The general feeling in the legal industry is that making one side of lawyers pay the other side's costs is very bad because it might - no joke - lead to fewer lawsuits. You see, lawyers and judges feel that the system works perfectly fine as it is and that any time you've been wronged, they have no problem with the idea that you may have to pay tens of thousands of dollars or much more to defend yourself by hiring an attorney and running up costs. And what you might not know is that paying off attorney fees has a higher priority than anything else because the judges and attorneys have fixed the system to insure that they get paid first and they get paid all that you owe them. Believe me when I tell you that attorneys and judges are not even a little bit troubled by the massive costs that innocent parties expend trying to defend themselves from predatory attorneys and they truly do not care if it destroys financially to pay them off, but by God you will pay your attorney and court fees fully or they'll put you in jail or confiscate your stuff if they have to to get it done. If you win a financial judgement against another party, good luck getting a sheriff interested in enforcing the payment on your behalf but those same sheriffs will not hesitate at all to make you pay off legal fees you owe. My guess is that Prenda will simply file appeal after appeal on the judgement against them and it may be many years before they pay it, if ever.

Re:Some comments about the US legal system

[darkmeridian]

Many people seem to think that lawyers just popped into a case and started all this ruckus. However, that's not true. Attorneys represent parties with conflicts. The parties in conflict hate each other; that's why they're in court. So each attorney is trying to win the case for their client. Thus, each client thinks that the other side's attorney is a bad person because they are an extension of the other side.

Therein lies the problem. With most court cases, you will have one winner and one loser. Fifty percent of litigants, therefore, would hate litigation.

Courts hate issuing sanctions because if you lower the bar for sanctions, well, everyone and his mother would constantly file motions for sanctions. I mean, it's tough to get sanctions but lawyers routinely act like morons and threaten sanctions. Making it easier would only waste more time with parties trying to get sanctions.

Why shouldn't attorneys get paid for their time? Again, they're representing someone. And if they're on the verge of getting money from the other side, well, aren't they just doing their job? Of course, the guy who lost will think it sucks but the guy who won is pretty happy about it.

Cops

[ArchieBunker]

For the same reason the police departments investigate themselves and find no wrong doing.

Don't you have an ambulance to chase.

[publiclurker]

or something.

Severe punishment of a lawyer? Not likely.

[nitehawk214]

Some people are still wondering why none of this pattern of deceit, lying and abuse of the court system has not resulted in anything more serious

Remember, Judges and prosecutors are lawyers too, and lawyers protect their own.

Re:Severe punishment of a lawyer? Not likely.

[nitehawk214]

And most politicians are lawyers too, so good luck getting any laws passed that are harder on abusive lawyers.

Re:Severe punishment of a lawyer? Not likely.

[T.E.D.]

Some people are still wondering why none of this pattern of deceit, lying and abuse of the court system has not resulted in anything more serious

Remember, Judges and prosecutors are lawyers too, and lawyers protect their own.

Actually, if you read the court proceedings in question, the judges threatened Prenda principles with life in prison.

Re:Severe punishment of a lawyer? Not likely.

[Anonymous Coward]

And that's so much hot air until it actually happens.

Next time some lawyer tells you that 98% of lawyers are good, and it's 2% that give the rest a bad name, remind them that 98% of lawyers *allow* the 2% to give them a bad name. They could police their own.

*adjust percentages as needed.

Re:Severe punishment of a lawyer? Not likely.

[nitehawk214]

I always though it was the 98% of bad lawyers give the 2% of good ones a bad name. :)

I knew Steele

[Anonymous Coward]

He ran an MCSE bootcamp in Miami 15 years ago. Even then he was pretty seedy. I did get my MCSE though.

Hansmeiers' father heads the MN Ethics Committee

[Anonymous Coward]

Seriously.

Lawyers are a protected class?

[bradley13]

Lawyers apparently look out for each other, and judges are lawyers. They have managed to avoid paying these sanctions for more than two years, have not been disbarred, have not been sent to jail, nothing. Any bets on what would have happened to a non-lawyer who tried these shenanigans?

Just disbarred

[phorm]

The saddest part of the whole mess (other than all the people that they bilked out of thousands of dollars) is that they still haven't been disbarred.

Screw disbarred, I'm thinking that they should be imprisoned
* Identity theft
* Perjury
* (possible) Racketeering
* Failing to comply with a court order
* etc

The short answer

[Anonymous Coward]

... lying and abuse of the court system has not resulted in anything more serious ...

Courts exist so rich people can fight without slaughter and mayhem. The behaviour of the prosecution/plaintiff is immaterial: The 'tough on crime' rhetoric blurted out during a criminal case is example enough.

Punishing lawyers only hurts all lawyers. The police have the same attitude. The courts are generous enough to include one or two other groups in the "it doesn't count" immunity: So punishing women only hurts their children.

Little surprise the US government, the business entity with the most lawyers, ignores any court ruling they dislike.

Do you want to know why?

[Anonymous Coward]

If lawyers, prosecutors, defence lawyers and judges were held accountable to be somewhat truthful

a) a lot of them would lose their jobs
b) a lot of the rest would lose their contracts, because they won't be allowed to deliver the product (lies in court) that they're being hired for
c) it makes someone else more powerful than they are in the court, an anathema to the court hierarchy
d) it makes out that all the earlier cases were dealt softly with, ergo a problem with the rest of the law system too

Appointed to Bar ethics comittee, not disbarred

[laughingskeptic]

This says it all about lawyers, with all this shit hanging over his head, he is chosen to be the Ethic's Chair for his peers: http://www.rajhan.com/Firm-New... , http://www.mnbar.org/about-msb....

DarinBob = "Run, Forrest: RUN!!!"

[Anonymous Coward]

See subject "Forrest" & this -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comme...

DarinBob = "Run, Forrest: RUN!!!"

[Anonymous Coward]

See subject "Forrest" & this -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comme...