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New Horizons Gets Closer to Pluto, But Mystery Spots Now Out of Sight

The L.A. Times reports that the strange spots spotted on the surface of Pluto by the New Horizons mission will be on the wrong side of the planet for the approaching fly-by that the craft will make of the smallest planet (or dwarf planet, depending) of our solar system. (The BBC makes a similar observation.) That doesn't mean that New Horizons' approach is anything short of "a spectacular event."

98 comments

  1. im not saying aliens..... by ganjadude · · Score: 3, Funny

    but aliens!

    --
    have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
    1. Re:im not saying aliens..... by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 1

      It's a garbage pod.

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    2. Re:im not saying aliens..... by Chelloveck · · Score: 2

      What do you think was up with that "safe mode" last week? They obviously saw something in the pics and they needed time photoshop it away and move the probe so the spots would be out of view in future pics. It's aliens, all right!

      --
      Chelloveck
      I give up on debugging. From now on, SIGSEGV is a feature.
    3. Re:im not saying aliens..... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They detected hazardous material and initiated a long exposure search from 2015-07-01 04:01:00 UTC to 2015-07-01 18:06:34 UTC. This is what they saw (warping starships): http://pluto.jhuapl.edu/soc/Pluto-Encounter/data/pluto/level2/lor/jpeg/029807/lor_0298079918_0x633_sci_1.jpg

      You can see all the images here: http://pluto.jhuapl.edu/soc/Pluto-Encounter/index.php

    4. Re:im not saying aliens..... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, it is the perfectly preserved remains of a Quagaar warrior. They must have looked something like a roast chicken.

    5. Re:im not saying aliens..... by sconeu · · Score: 1

      Yep. It's the Wormface base

      --
      General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
  2. July 1? by MichaelSmith · · Score: 0

    No point linking to an article from July 1 now.

    1. Re:July 1? by davester666 · · Score: 1

      why not now? back then, everyone was busy trying to blow their fingers off their hands.

      --
      Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
    2. Re:July 1? by fustakrakich · · Score: 2

      HA! Even less point in getting the latest from the original source, right?

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    3. Re:July 1? by NormalVisual · · Score: 2

      Especially when JPL has photos available from yesterday morning.

      --
      Please stand clear of the doors, por favor mantenganse alejado de las puertas
    4. Re:July 1? by NormalVisual · · Score: 1

      Replying to myself - it's Johns Hopkins, not JPL.

      --
      Please stand clear of the doors, por favor mantenganse alejado de las puertas
    5. Re:July 1? by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 2

      Heh, relax. It's been traveling for over nine years to get here, and it's going to take well over a year before we get the full data set from the flyby a couple of days from now, as the transmission bitrate is ridiculously low from that distance. What's a week or two?

      On September 14, New Horizons will begin downlinking a "browse" version of the entire Pluto data set, in which all images will be lossily compressed. It will take about 10 weeks to get that data set to the ground. There will be compression artifacts, but we'll see the entire data set. Then, around November 16, New Horizons will begin to downlink the entire science data set losslessly compressed. It will take a year to complete that process.

      --
      Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
    6. Re:July 1? by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      It will take a year to complete that process.

      They must have Comcast. I just hope to hell they don't need tech support.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    7. Re:July 1? by KGIII · · Score: 1

      Now we know were the wires went when we paid them to roll out connectivity for rural people.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    8. Re:July 1? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why would you go there instead of the official NASA New Horizons site?

    9. Re:July 1? by NormalVisual · · Score: 1

      Because at the time, the NASA site didn't have the latest photos, and the Johns Hopkins site did.

      --
      Please stand clear of the doors, por favor mantenganse alejado de las puertas
    10. Re:July 1? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bullshit. The NASA site has had all of the images first.

    11. Re:July 1? by Muad'Dave · · Score: 1

      Their timeline has some serious NaN math errors - I hope they're not NASA errors: "New Horizons is taking 2 images of Kerberos with LORRI from NaN km away."

      --
      Tiller's Rule: Never use a word in written form that you've only heard and never read. You will end up looking foolish.
  3. I know the feeling by PPH · · Score: 0

    Every time I go to the doctor with some strange spots, they mysteriously clear up.

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
    1. Re:I know the feeling by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      Just marry a doctor, problem solved.

    2. Re:I know the feeling by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You think a doctor is going to marry someone with spots? Think again!

    3. Re:I know the feeling by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      But I thought they disappeared when......nevermind.

  4. Hope by Tablizer · · Score: 2

    If the probe finds a big enough body, like a burnt-out brown dwarf, can it make a U-turn and visit the other side of Pluto?

    Then again, such a discovery would probably change the focus to the brown dwarf such that re-visiting Pluto would become a secondary goal.

    1. Re:Hope by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      are they really looking for a brown dwarf? i thoight the nemesis theory was dead. theres no gravity unaccounted for in our system, right?

    2. Re:Hope by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If it found such a brown dwarf, that would be far more interesting than visiting the other side of Pluto.

    3. Re:Hope by AC-x · · Score: 1

      Any brown dwarf would be at least a few light years away (or we'd know about it), and at New Horizon's current speed of 52,000 mph it would take around 13 thousand years to travel 1 light year. New Horizon's power source is due to run out in 2030.

    4. Re:Hope by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What a simple and child-like understanding of the scales of space you have.

    5. Re:Hope by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      Do you have a related link or study on that?

    6. Re:Hope by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      I suppose anything big enough to have U-turn gravity that's within 200 years or so away probably would radiate enough to be detected by now. However, a cluster of smaller bodies may be able to do the job. Suppose we invent better detection technology and find such clusters.

      I know, it's a long-shot. But just imagine a Beowulf cluster of...

    7. Re:Hope by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Choke on a neck-beard

    8. Re: Hope by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Imagine Beowulf out round Neptune? You'll be wanting to read Larry Niven's "Protector."

  5. Scientific explanation by Tablizer · · Score: 3, Funny

    Pluto's embarrassed by its age spots, and so is showing its good side to the probe.

  6. Jupiter by the_Bionic_lemming · · Score: 1

    As soon as I saw the Picture of the spots, it reminded me of when Jupiter got hit by Shoemaker-Levy.

    It's the simplest explanation in my opinion.

    --
    _ _ _ Go for the eyes Boo! GO FOR THE EYES!
    1. Re:Jupiter by NormalVisual · · Score: 1

      I had thought the same thing the first time I saw them, but the more recent photos show them to be quite irregular in shape. More interesting to me are the hexagonally-shaped areas above the equator.

      --
      Please stand clear of the doors, por favor mantenganse alejado de las puertas
    2. Re:Jupiter by Trax3001BBS · · Score: 1

      As soon as I saw the Picture of the spots, it reminded me of when Jupiter got hit by Shoemaker-Levy.

      When I read "a remarkably bright expanse of terrain shaped like a heart." I though thank a deity it's not a face this time.

  7. Non-Hyphenated Title by fred911 · · Score: 1

    How'ed ya do it Timothy??

    --
    09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B - D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
  8. One word... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yuggoth.

  9. Yuggoth? by Okian+Warrior · · Score: 1

    Isn't Yuggoth supposed to be Pluto?

    That's where the Mi-go are.

    Nah - probably some primitive type of fungi.

  10. Prickly Thorn Bushes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Look before you leap
    Still waters run deep
    And I won't always be there
    To pull your smelly ass out

  11. Roadsign by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The dark areas are alien letters, it says "Welcome to the Solar System".

    1. Re:Roadsign by gargleblast · · Score: 1

      The dark areas are alien letters, it says "Welcome to the Solar System".

      I want to know if the fine print says "Except Europa. Attempt no landing there".

    2. Re:Roadsign by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Greece is for sale though!

    3. Re: Roadsign by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nah. It's a sign that says "no humans beyond this point!" On July 15th, the probe will splatter against the quarantine field the aliens left to keep us confined to our prison. I mean, our solar system.

    4. Re:Roadsign by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      or, "Warning, there be humans about! They taste terrible."

  12. Inserting into orbit would have been interesting by Pharago · · Score: 1

    the more we learn about pluto, the more I think the probe sould have had a detachable orbiter to be left around it
    I imagine that would have complicated things a lot on its design phase, but now we'll have to wait more than a decade to do it, if it ever comes to pass

  13. Re:Inserting into orbit would have been interestin by queazocotal · · Score: 2

    Well, yes, everyone knows that would be awesome.
    Some rough numbers I did indicate that to stop New Horizons (It is only 400kg) at pluto would take a Delta V heavy. That is - around 500 tons.
    A launch campaign to launch 500 tons to pluto is likely to need several thousand rockets.
    Stopping is hard.

  14. Pluto temperature. by bejiitas_wrath · · Score: 1

    Pluto is -233 degrees Celsius right? Therefore if there was an alien civilization living on the surface, they would need to use materials that could withstand the awesome cold there. If we went there would a spacesuit not freeze solid and shatter like glass? What materials could stay in one piece in this cold? I think that an alien with Helium II blood could live there, but what could sustain it?

    --
    liberare massarum ex ignorantia, clausa descendit molestie.
    1. Re:Pluto temperature. by msk · · Score: 1

      Maybe we'll find Outsiders.

      Let's hope we can pony up the price for a hyperdrive shunt.

    2. Re: Pluto temperature. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I understand that reference!

    3. Re:Pluto temperature. by JoeMerchant · · Score: 1

      What would their rate of metabolism be? Even if they were "technologically advanced" a billion years ago, would they be moving fast enough to notice what's been happening in the last 100 years on Earth?

    4. Re:Pluto temperature. by I+prefer+not+to+say · · Score: 1

      Pluto is -233 degrees Celsius right? Therefore if there was an alien civilization living on the surface, they would need to use materials that could withstand the awesome cold there. If we went there would a spacesuit not freeze solid and shatter like glass? What materials could stay in one piece in this cold? I think that an alien with Helium II blood could live there, but what could sustain it?

      Or they could light a fire and roast marshmallows around the forge. Seriously, lifeforms might exist at such cold temperatures, but a race of ice giants belongs to myth. Thinking beings require warmth and calories to burn.

    5. Re:Pluto temperature. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're going to need effective insulation in both directions. If the exterior of your suit is warmer than the sublimation temp of Pluto's ices, you're going to be melting through everywhere you touch.

    6. Re:Pluto temperature. by Agripa · · Score: 1

      Robert Forward wrote a science fiction book describing such a world with alien life:

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

  15. Re:Inserting into orbit would have been interestin by Rei · · Score: 1

    One of the researchers who posted on the Unmanned Spaceflight forum wrote about his efforts to design a miniprobe to decelerate at Pluto - if I remember right, 20kg - using atmospheric drag. But the calculations showed it would have to be made of something with a density like that of carbon aerogel (even silicon aerogel would be too much), making deployment of the deceleraiton system unrealistic, and undergo huge G-loads. He also added that people always suggest inflatable decelerators, but the problem with them is that they begin vibrating and rip themselves apart.

    I have my own crazy ideas for deceleration involving magnetic and/or RF traps to hold fine ionized (or superconducting) dusts or ions in place around a craft (thus removing all issues of deployment difficulty and structural strength from the equation and allowing for a ridiculously thin layer). No, I haven't yet done any simulations to know whether the mass of such a system works out better than that of a typical drag chute.

    --
    The human body can be drained of blood in 8.6 seconds given adequate vacuuming systems.
  16. Re:Inserting into orbit would have been interestin by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That's to get there in 9 years. If you're willing to get there in 50+ years, then it should be possible to match Pluto's orbit more gently, like other orbiter probes: Galileo, Cassini, and more recently Dawn and Rosetta.

  17. Meanwhile.... by Rei · · Score: 3, Funny

    A fraction of a percent of the AMA has, out of concern of students having to learn so many bones, voted to declare that there are only 8 bones in the human body, and all of the others are dwarf bones, and that those don't really count as bones. And to tell the difference between a bone and a dwarf bone you have to do a detailed study using a definition that nobody can agree on. But, if you move a bone from one part of the body to the other, it can change between being a bone and not being a bone. Also, other mammals don't have bones at all - their bodies are held together by "something" that isn't defined at all.

    Only a tiny fraction of those present at the AMA vote were in a field doing anything with anatomy; the rests were bacteriologists. But nonetheless, despite the criticism by anatomists, the AMA has adamantly refused to revisit their decision.

    --
    The human body can be drained of blood in 8.6 seconds given adequate vacuuming systems.
    1. Re:Meanwhile.... by queazocotal · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Pluto as a planet doesn't really make much sense, without including others.
      Eris, for example. While currently three times the distance of pluto from the sun, at times (next ~2800AD) it is actually closer than pluto to the sun, as well as more massive.
      There is no real inarguable set.

    2. Re:Meanwhile.... by Rei · · Score: 4, Funny

      ... without including others

      Exactly. They should be included, obviously.

      The concept of a planet is pretty intuitive - it orbits a star and its big enough that its gravity has pulled it into a sphere. That's what pretty much everyone on Earth outside of the IAU understands a planet to be. The concept that you have to try to pretend that diversity doesn't exist in order to shrink down the list to a number whose names schoolchildren can memorize is a horribly unscientific approach.

      We need to accept the universe that nature has created for us. There are terrestrial planets. There are gas giants. Ice giants. Eccentric giants. Hot jupiters. Super-earths. Water worlds. And yes, dwarf planets. They're all planets by pretty much any reasonable definition. In fact, they're a lot more similar to terrestrial planets than gas giants are.

      We should be thrilled by the number of worlds in our solar system instead of intimidated by it and trying to write them out by a ridiculous definition that leads to absurd consequences. And uses nomenclature ("dwarf") that even the IAU itself doesn't use elsewhere (do they plan to declare "dwarf stars" to not be stars?). An "adjective-noun" is also a member of the group "noun" in any realistic nomenclature.

      Extrasolar planets aren't planets according to the IAU either. You could have an exact replica of Earth orbiting an exact replica of the sun with an exact replica of Earth's "neighborhood" and it'd still not be called a planet. And even if they didn't arbitrary exclude them, we'd have no way to be able to determine if any of them had "cleared their neighborhood" without sending a probe there - aka, effectively impossible at this point in time. Not that "cleared the neighborhood" makes any sense, there's lots of objects in Earth's neighborhood, and new ones keep entering our neighborhood. And many of the planets don't appear to have formed in their current neighborhood anyway. Plus, Neptune has freaking Pluto in its neighborhood. And since when does what something "is" have anything to do with where it happens to be currently located? Would it make any sense for a cow be declared a "dwarf cow" and not really a cow if it was exactly the same but in a location that had several cowlike animal species near it? Would it make sense to make a definition of a "dwarf river", with the only rationale being to limit the total number of rivers in the world to 8?

      I can just imagine an IAU-inspired Star Trek:

      Kirk: "What is that planet on the viewscreen? Prepare a team to beam down to the surface."

      Spock: "Actually, captain, we cannot be certain that it is a planet."

      Kirk: "Spock, I can see it right there, it's a planet - it's a huge round thing orbiting its star."

      Spock: "Yes, captain, but I have not yet completed my scan to see whether it has 'cleared its neighborhood'; I need to first find out if any asteroids that cross its orbit. The survey will take a few hours to complete."

      Kirk: "But Spock... it's right there, it's a planet! It's even got oceans, an atmosphere, clouds - it's a veritable second Earth!"

      Spock: "It could be a dwarf planet, which isn't really a planet, despite being having 'planet' in the title." (beat) "Captain, I have been reviewing the IAU's definition; because it's not orbiting the sun, it's not only not a planet, it's not anything at all."

      Kirk: "Okay, okay - somebody prepare a team to beam down to the nothing-at-all that looks like a damned planet!"

      --
      The human body can be drained of blood in 8.6 seconds given adequate vacuuming systems.
    3. Re:Meanwhile.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That joke was funny years ago when it first happened. It's over man, let it go.

    4. Re:Meanwhile.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And even if they didn't arbitrary exclude them, we'd have no way to be able to determine if any of them had "cleared their neighborhood" without sending a probe there - aka, effectively impossible at this point in time. Not that "cleared the neighborhood" makes any sense, there's lots of objects in Earth's neighborhood, and new ones keep entering our neighborhood.

      You're overstating the case here. There's a huge difference between the Earth, which has cleared its neighbourhood of anything more than a few stray rocks, and Pluto, which has a huge gas giant planet (far bigger than Pluto itself) in an overlapping orbit. To give you some idea of how different they are, you can measure the mass of an object compared to the mass of everything else in an overlapping orbit, and get a number for that ratio (called Soter's planetary discriminant; see table 1 here). The lowest-scoring planet, Neptune, gets a score of 24,000 - that is, it's 24,000 times heavier than everything else in an overlapping orbit. The highest-scoring dwarf planet, Ceres, gets a score of 0.33 - that is, Ceres is outweighed three times over by the rest of the asteroid belt.

      If any exoplanets were outweighed by something else in the same orbit, we would have detected that other thing first - so it's a safe bet that exoplanets meet the IAU criteria for being planets. So this is a neat numerical way to discriminate between "planet" and "bigger-than-average asteroid" that you can apply even when you have the barest information about a system.

      Similarly, I rather like the idea that you can discriminate between a planet-and-moon and a double-planet by looking at whether the centre-of-mass of the system lies inside the larger body. By this measure, Pluto and Charon make up a double dwarf planet system. But it has the interesting side-effect that Jupiter and the Sun then make up a double system...

    5. Re:Meanwhile.... by queazocotal · · Score: 1

      "has cleared"
      This is at best debatable.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
      Makes the case that saturn and jupiter cleared earths orbit of 'hot jupiters' as they migrated in, causing collisional cascades and the remnants of those condensed into the terrestrial planets.

    6. Re:Meanwhile.... by Rei · · Score: 1

      Except that the planets haven't, according to current research, always been where they are, so it's not accurate to say that a particular planet "cleared" its own neighborhood. Jupiter cleared most planets' neighborhoods. And anyway a "cleared" measure is largely just a measure of distance from the star rather than a measure of any planet's properties.

      Concerning extrasolar "planets" (which the IAU says aren't really planets): The "cleared the neighborhood" claim isn't about being merely "outweighed". Eris "outweighs" the other stuff in its neighborhood, as does Ceres, but they're still called dwarfs. There is no way that we could resolve the "cleared the neighborhood" pseudo-standard for exoplanets (even if they weren't explicitly ruled out) with any sort of technology we're going to have in the next century.

      As for the doubles, sorry, the IAU refused to consider that - yet another stupid decision on their part. And, yes, Jupiter-Sol should be considered a (bare minimum) binary object - but, critically, not a "binary star" or "binary planet" because they're neither both stars nor both planets.

      And yet another issue, the IAU isn't even paying attention to their own stupid standard. Quaoar is significantly larger than Ceres and its diameter is known to a margin of error of a mere 5 kilometers - why exactly isn't it a dwarf planet? The IAU hasn't bothered to declare any new dwarf planets since 2006, even though there's tons that should be declared who we know to far better accuracy than was known to the IAU when they made their previous declarations.

      --
      The human body can be drained of blood in 8.6 seconds given adequate vacuuming systems.
    7. Re:Meanwhile.... by queazocotal · · Score: 1

      "If any exoplanets were outweighed by something else in the same orbit, we would have detected that other thing first"

      This is not correct in many cases.
      For example, for Kepler - planets are found by looking at the dimming star as the planet comes in front of the sun.
      If Kepler detects a planet, it is entirely insensitive to small objects in the same orbit, even if there are a _LOT_ of them.
      It is also insensitive to objects outside the plane of the system (apart from timing transit variation for really large bodies)

      Similarly - radial velocity is going to be entirely insensitive to multiple small bodies in an orbit.
      It's worth noting that Kepler has detected exactly 0 earth-like planets in earth-like orbits around sun-like stars.
      There are lots of holes in the data due to insufficient signal-noise.

    8. Re:Meanwhile.... by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      Splitters and Lumpers. A very old argument.

      Nature cares not a fig for our 'definitions'. It just is.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    9. Re:Meanwhile.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Eris "outweighs" the other stuff in its neighborhood, as does Ceres, but they're still called dwarfs.

      Nope. Ceres is outweighed by objects in overlapping orbits by a factor of 3. For Eris, it's a factor of 10. Each of them is larger than any single nearby object - but, for any given pile of gravel, you're going to have one rock that's bigger than any of the others.

      I agree that there's a difference between an object being dominant in its neighbourhood, and being *responsible* for being dominant in its neighbourhood (i.e. clearing it itself). It seems sensible to use the former for any definition, since the latter will be the subject of debate for some time after an object is discovered.

    10. Re:Meanwhile.... by Rei · · Score: 1

      You know what I meant. There is no single object larger than Ceres, or even close to its size, in its neighborhood. Hence saying "If any exoplanets were outweighed by something else in the same orbit, we would have detected that other thing first". There is no "other thing" larger than Ceres in its orbit.

      Neither "being dominant in its neighborhood" (which, by the way, Ceres is - its neighborhood isn't clear but it certainly is dominant), nor "being responsible for being dominant in its neighborhood" are reasonable definitions. They say nothing about what the body itself is. The concept that you could have an exact clone of Earth not be called a planet in certain circumstances - for example, orbiting the habitable zone of a much larger star, or in a much younger star system, or in a star system without Jupiter's aid - renders the whole definition an absurdity. As does the fact that these dwarf planets that we're excluding are much more similar to Earth than say Jupiter which we're including.

      --
      The human body can be drained of blood in 8.6 seconds given adequate vacuuming systems.
    11. Re:Meanwhile.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're overstating the case here. There's a huge difference between the Earth, which has cleared its neighbourhood of anything more than a few stray rocks, and Pluto, which has a huge gas giant planet (far bigger than Pluto itself) in an overlapping orbit.

      You're making a case for Neptune not being a planet either, since it still has a dwarf planet overlapping its orbit...

  18. Re:Inserting into orbit would have been interestin by Pharago · · Score: 1

    of course trying to make it with new horizon's current trajectory would probably be impossible

    I never said that

  19. Re:Inserting into orbit would have been interestin by queazocotal · · Score: 1

    The problem is that you pretty much can't pick another.
    The trajectory chosen was to reduce mission time.
    If you have 9 years, then pretty much the only way you can do a pluto probe is blasting past at >10km/s.

    If you try to make the trajectory more gentle, then yes, you can do this - a hohmann transfer - but this will take literally a hundred years. There is nothing close to pluto that can slow you down meaningfully at all with a gravitational assist.

    Nuclear powered ion engines, nuclear rockets (dusty fission rocket), and aerobraking are all in principle possible, but they all have their own risks.

  20. They cleaned up for guests by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They saw guests were coming so they cleaned up the place.They're also fixing up some finger sandwiches and tea.

  21. Re:Inserting into orbit would have been interestin by Blaskowicz · · Score: 1

    I suppose you can create a trajectory that will end up catching up to Pluto's orbit and position, but that would take decades or even a century.

  22. Re:Inserting into orbit would have been interestin by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 1

    To use aerobraking as a technique, you have to know detail about the composition and extent of the body's atmosphere. Now that it has taken New Horizons to find this out, we can design an aerobraking orbiter.

  23. A rose by any other name by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    not that I care about artificial controversies, but what is the argument against including others?

    1. Re:A rose by any other name by Rei · · Score: 1

      Seriously, the best argument they've given, and I'm not kidding, is that they don't want there to have to be hundreds of planets for people to memorize. One IAU official arguing for the current definition said something along the lines of (I could dig up the exact quote) "There's no way my daughter is going to be able to learn the names of all of the dwarf planets in school."

      It's so ridiculously unscientific. And not only was it only a tiny fraction of the IAU who voted, but the vast majority of them were astronomers, not planetary scientists. This isn't a decision arrived at by the people who study planets.

      --
      The human body can be drained of blood in 8.6 seconds given adequate vacuuming systems.
    2. Re:A rose by any other name by dasunt · · Score: 2
      • Mercury
      • Venus
      • Earth
      • Mars
      • Ceres
      • Jupiter
      • Saturn
      • Uranus
      • Neptune
      • Pluton & Charon (double planet)
      • Eris
      • Haumea
      • Makemake
      • 2007 OR10
      • Sedna
      • Quaoar
      • Orcus
      • (307261) 2002 MS4
      • 120347 Salacia
      • Varuna
      • Ixion
      • Chaos
      • Varda
      • +dozens of unnamed more

      Now that isn't too hard to remember. But if we're going off planetary scientists, why not include satellites like Titan, which is a captured dwarf planet? Does a planet stop being a planet when it's captured by another?

      And what about our own moon? It's far larger than the dwarf planets. It seems to have a similar internal composition to a planet. If earth had disappeared, it would orbit the sun.

      What I'm getting at is that classifications are arbitrary. The dwarf planet/planet split is not a horrible division when it comes to classification.

    3. Re:A rose by any other name by Rei · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Why do you feel that you have to memorize them all? Do you feel compelled to memorize all of Earth's rivers or all of the named stars in our galaxy? The concept that "what I can remember all the names of" is grounds for a scientific classification is an absurdity.

      And New Horizons' Alan Stern recommends - and I agree - that indeed moons that would otherwise meet the definition of being a planet except that they are moons of a planet should be seen as planetary moons. So our solar system could be said have several "planetary moons" and "dwarf planetary moons" - Earth's, the Galilean moons, Titan, Triton, maybe others. "Planet" being the general category for non-stars in hydrostatic equilibrium, "planetary" being the adjective form, "moon" being a body in orbit around something that's not a star, "dwarf planet" just being a category of planet, etc. They're all just different categorizations that you can apply where they're needed. Other systems might have other types of planetary moons, even gas giant moons.

      Likewise, you should be able to have planetary bodies that aren't in orbit around anything and drift freely through space. We don't have the technology to spot them yet, but I wouldn't be surprised if the galaxy was chock full of them - why shouldn't it be? What an object orbits around doesn't define what it is. So you could have roaming terrestrial planets, roaming gas giants, roaming dwarf planets, and on and on.

      Nature always likes giving us diversity. In almost every field of science, this diversity is embraced. Except apparently when it comes to the IAU and planets, on the grounds that "I couldn't memorize them all". Well, tough luck, we're going to keep finding more and more planets under any definition, and more and more diversity, with time, you can't hold out on your "I can't memorize them all" nonsense forever.

      And really, why not embrace the fact that these aren't just undifferentiated hunks of rocks? Something being large enough to reaching hydrostatic equilibrium says a lot about the object. It means you start getting all sorts of geological differentiation processes, uneven heating, localized mineralization, long timeperiods to cool down, etc. It makes them very interesting places for exploration - and for the search of for life.

      --
      The human body can be drained of blood in 8.6 seconds given adequate vacuuming systems.
    4. Re:A rose by any other name by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 2

      which is a captured dwarf planet? Does a planet stop being a planet when it's captured by another?
      Yes it does, that is actually a no brainer and has nothing to do with the question if the `object at first was a planet, a dwarf planet or a trans neptunial object or an asteroid.

      Orbit the sun: might be a (insert adjective) planet, orbit something else: we call it a mooooooon

      Every child knows that. No idea why people in this story now question what a moon is.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    5. Re:A rose by any other name by Sp*rH*wk · · Score: 0

      "While a satellite may be a moon, the Moon is not a satellite ..." - Spocks world

      see http://www.mathpages.com/home/...

  24. Re:Inserting into orbit would have been interestin by BrendaEM · · Score: 1

    I agree. It's like putting the ring down and turning around to go home just before you get to Mordor.

    --
    https://www.youtube.com/c/BrendaEM
  25. Like Saturn or Mars? by I+prefer+not+to+say · · Score: 1

    It could be an optical illusion like the Face on Mars or it could be like Saturn's hexagonal storms.

    1. Re:Like Saturn or Mars? by NormalVisual · · Score: 1

      Could be. It'll be fun to find out though, if we can.

      --
      Please stand clear of the doors, por favor mantenganse alejado de las puertas
    2. Re:Like Saturn or Mars? by I+prefer+not+to+say · · Score: 1

      I propose the next planetary mission consist of twins, like the Voyager probes, the first probe does the preliminary survey, while the second focuses on the points of interest discovered by the first. I'm not a rocket scientist but different flight paths should allow one probe to arrive months or even years ahead of its twin.

  26. Re:Inserting into orbit would have been interestin by dryeo · · Score: 1

    Not really, as winter is coming to Pluto and the atmosphere will freeze.

    --
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
  27. Look, if you had one shot... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...Oh, there goes gravity... you know it won't be that easy... you'd better lose yourself... you only get one shot...

  28. Re:Inserting into orbit would have been interestin by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Aerobraking? At Pluto?

  29. Re:Inserting into orbit would have been interestin by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They should have added an impactor like this if it is impossible to have an orbiter
    https://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/deepimpact/mission/

  30. Re:Inserting into orbit would have been interestin by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Rocket Equation, thou art truly and verily a pitiless bitch...

  31. Re:What about pop-eye? by ganjadude · · Score: 1

    ohhhh sorry that is incorrect. the correct answer is "what about mickey mouse"

    Next contestant COME ON DOWN!!!!

    --
    have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
  32. Re:Inserting into orbit would have been interestin by Tablizer · · Score: 1

    Stopping is hard.

    So it's a Toyota probe?

  33. Re:Inserting into orbit would have been interestin by queazocotal · · Score: 1

    It is not in principle insane.
    The atmosphere contains a large amount of very light gas, and plutos mass is low.
    This means that the atmosphere is quite 'puffed up' - meaning you can skim the planet and get quite a decent brake.
    The required large aerosurface due to the low density makes it 'interesting'.
    It requires detailed knowledge of the atmosphere.

  34. Re:Inserting into orbit would have been interestin by dclydew · · Score: 1

    Even Pluto can't escape George R R Martin Memes....

    --
    Get a life, not a lifestyle. - Hikem Bey
  35. Re:Inserting into orbit would have been interestin by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Stopping is hard.

    Stopping is easy, just aim for Pluto. Stopping and surviving that stop is hard.