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Uber Drivers Arrested By Undercover Cops In Hong Kong
The Stack reports that local police have raided Uber's Hong Kong office, "after several officers posed as Uber customers and arrested drivers on Tuesday morning in an attempt to put an end to illegal taxi services. Five drivers who had offered their services across the taxi-hailing app were arrested on suspicion of illegally carrying passengers and driving without third-party insurance. The men are being held for further investigation." Are local police quite this concerned in your city with car-sharing dispatch services?
There's nothing at all related to "sharing" about services like Uber.
I'll never forget the last thing grandma said to me before she died: "What are you doing in here with that knife?!?"
Illegal here and illegal elsewhere. Uber is just a new way to find them.
Suborbital [spaceflight] is the special olympics of spaceflight. - Rei
So if I take gas money from a friend on a trip am I a chauffeur? Do I need insurance? I bet that there have been instances of people being sued for the if your in an accident.
Come the revolution, the Bourgeois, Capitalistic, "A PARKING STICKER HOLDERS", will be first against the wall!
People have definitely been arrested for lamer reasons. Growing gardens in the US is sometimes an offense, depending on if you have the licenses required to do so. It seems to be much more about money than safety.
But if you give them low-hanging fruit for arrestable offenses, they're going to take it.
Your hair look like poop, Bob! - Wanker.
If I sign up, using my own car, how am I not sharing the car that I have with others?
Sharing does not imply I'm doing so for free; just that I am willing to let someone else use resources I own and could otherwise deny the use of...
Plenty of people borrow boats and cars in return for beer or pizza or other favors. That's sharing too. So too is Uber, even if it's more formalized and at a larger scale.
You'd think Slashdot of all places would hold people understanding how others can use technology to share what they have at a larger scale than possible before...
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
It's that the proper palms were not crossed with silver. ...or being that it's Hong Kong, a glaring red envelope that everyone pretends doesn't exist.
That's how business works in China. You can be 100% legitimate, but without that bribe, you're going to jail. That's probably why only 5 drivers were arrested, instead of however many there actually were.
Illegal here and illegal elsewhere. Uber is just a new way to find them.
Using a vehicle for commercial purposes requires a Commercial Endorsement on your driver's license in Texas (probably the same in the other states). Also, I believe you are required to have 'commercial-level' auto insurance as well (higher liability minimums, etc).
Note that even Pizza delivery drivers are "supposed" to have this too, but I don't know how well the laws are followed or enforced -- I haven't heard of police setting up sting operations against pizza delivery drivers...
...is "not paying your taxes." Taxis are required to have certifications and so forth - more money for the coffers. Uber drivers are offering a similar service without paying those fees and fines. Ergo, they are taking valuable slush money away from the government.
Send in the troops!
But they are concerned with unlicensed, uninsured, unregulated taxi operators masquerading as car-sharing.
Odds are is they their drivers are breaking the law. Commercial insurance is required to take passengers, no different than a limo service. I would bet that a very small number of Uber drivers are properly insured.
Don't you remember that Cracker Jacks taught us all we needed to know about 'sharing'. And there's a 'free' prize inside, too!
How the fuck does this "company's" market capitalization rise to the level of $5 billions. It's like a cross between the game of musical chairs and herpes. It's fun while everyone is listening to the music and switching seats, but when your friends find out about the results of your medical tests, you may end up flat on your ass.
Correction above: Texas does NOT require CDL endorsement unless the vehicle is 13-tons or bigger, hauling hazardous materials, or designed to transport 16 (or more) people. Insurance companies require you to have commercial-level insurance though (may deny claims if using vehicle was being used in a commercial capacity and a wreck happens).
I mean can I get a ride from them, without paying, and in return in the future give a ride to somebody else? No.... If I could, I would be first in line defending them.
It's a damn taxi service with an app......that is all it is. And currently, the reason they can offer lower prices than most local taxi services in the West is because they don't pay the limited and expensive taxi plates, their drivers aren't tested and given a taxi license (that is usually more expensive than a regular license), they do not belong to some sort of taxi association (which gives you access to their territory, get hails etc.), their cars do not go though taxi inspections.......Which is not to say that normal taxi service is more secure or anything, these are all just hidden forms of taxation who's costs are passed along to the clients.
They are competing unfairly and all profits go to Uber....we the taxpayers get screwed in the end because Uber is not paying their fair share......
And even if Uber requires proof of commercial insurance from a driver in order to begin to drive for them, I can call up my insurance agent, get any insurance changes I need made and pay the premium over the phone, get paperwork sent to me to prove it, then call that agent up again a few days later and cancel the policy and get a refund sans the days that have already passed that I was covered for.
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
Hahahahaha
How the fuck does this "company's" market capitalization rise to the level of $5 billions. It's like a cross between the game of musical chairs and herpes. It's fun while everyone is listening to the music and switching seats, but when your friends find out about the results of your medical tests, you may end up flat on your ass.
Same way the dotcom bubble happened. People that do not truly know what it takes to make something work are looking for the next hot thing to jump on to ride to profit, so they throw money at anything that looks different hoping some of it will work, and thus the hype builds. Uber is the sexy thing right now, and it's growth rate has actually influenced its growth rate in a feedback loop.
Once governments crack-down on Uber for what it is, a passenger livery company operating by ignoring passenger-livery laws, it will either have to meld into the fray of all of the other passenger livery companies and it won't really be cheaper, or it will go bust.
The future of passenger livery will be in autonomous vehicles. The bulk of the employees will be office staff that handle company paperwork or will be mechanics servicing the vehicles on a schedule. Actual drivers will be limited to chauffering clients that pay for premium service and don't want to touch a door handle or their own bags, or to senior care or medical transport where the driver may have to work with custom wheelchairs or have to provide assistance in and out of the vehicle. Run of the mill point-A to point-B won't require a company representative to accompany the passenger. The owner or leasee of the fleet will be the licensing point for the livery company, be it one car or a thousand cars.
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
I have a Class B CDL with "P" endorsement (I can drive a buss with air brakes), and you are correct about state law up to a point. Purely private vehicles such as RV's and such can exceed the 13-Ton and length limits and still be driven by Class C license holders.
However local laws may apply here. In Dallas the city requires a "permit" they call a license in order to pick up paying passengers at the airports and other locations. You can drop off, just not pick anybody up. Even my CDL isn't good enough for the City of Dallas who wants their pound of flesh and to send me to a training course before I can carry passengers....
"File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
driving without insurance is the big issus and stuff uber gives drivers has gaps in it that can lead to kid that gets killed then the driver is on the clock being not covered.
*puts on sunglasses*
...is over.
YEEAAH!!
The government (at least where I am) is not going to crack-down on Uber in the way you describe. You left out one other option, which is that the passenger livery laws will become more lax in order to find a compromise that allows companies like Uber to exist and compete. The service is too popular to do away with, if you get rid of it, you look like you are abusing the wants and needs of the general populace.
I live in a notably large US city with very shitty public transportation options for a large number of neighborhoods and destinations. Cabs have always been extremely overpriced (not the drivers' fault, but due to the monopoloy on the medallions), and the ride was typically a crapshoot between being the most disgusting experience of your life, to being a basic ride somewhere. The presence of Uber fixed a lot of that. Not to mention helping dismantle some of a very old, very bribed, bought, and paid for power structure that did nothing to help the public, or the cab drivers, and never wanted to embrace any new technology.
While the system is not perfect, it would be extremely difficult for my town to get rid of uber at this point...especially in the wake of other online/phone-based services that purport to be 'free' that would simply crop up in its place. Fortunately my town understands this and has worked heavily with Uber and Lyft to make compromises.
Uber provides the same coverage of service as a Taxi in most areas: if there is no money/safety in it for a Taxi driver, an Uber driver won't miraculously be encouraged to serve an area. The only exception is areas that have no viable taxi service (rural), and the on-call nature makes it something attractive for someone to get some extra cash.
Hong Kong taxi industry is a stale monpoly (number of plates has stayed the same for more than 15 years), plates hoarded by companies then rented out to actual drivers who have to share their profit. The local reputation of taxi drivers are not very good; most people around me has anedotes of encountering rude drivers, drivers who refuse trips that are too short/long, who refuses passengers on wheelchairs because it takes too much time for them to board/unboard the taxi, drivers who deliberately take the long way for higher fare, who charges foreign visitors higher fare than is legal etc. There are also "shadow taxis" which are 2 or more taxis operating under 1 plate, which is of couse illegal, but hard to catch if they keep their aera of operation separated, and highly profitable if you consider the high price of the plates.
The department of transportation is very inflexible and does not issue enough commercial licenses, so even hotels, wedding planning services or a TV station were caught using unlicensed vehicles to carry passengers.
So those who use Uber are sympathetic to the drivers, who probably cannot get a commercial license even if they want to. I have not personally used it but I heard the drivers are more polite and will not refuse a trip.
The only ones who are complaining are of course the taxi drivers. Other local people who don't use Uber are indifferent on this issue.
If you take money to take some one in a vehicle from point a to point b you are a cab driver. It's really simple. Why do people think it should be any different if you use an app?
Come the revolution, the Bourgeois, Capitalistic, "A PARKING STICKER HOLDERS", will be first against the wall!
For example, how is a home renovation contractor not in the "tool sharing business"?
Correct. Tool and skill sharing.
Actually even more generically, this sounds like all jobs. The fry guy at mcdonalds. He's big into the the time sharing economy.
Technically yes, although that's pretty wordy so we all just call them "jobs".
How are an aspect of jobs not fundamentally an agreement of you to share some amount of your time with others?
Unpaid internships are certainly this, and they are still considered jobs.
Although as I said it sounds wordy, how does calling unpaid interns "part of a time-sharing economy" not fit? Sounds like it fits perfectly. Since those are jobs...
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Yeah there's absolutely *no* way to check for coverage dates... /s
Not at all. The poor / dangerous areas would have terrible service. Unless the rates were higher there.
Cops in SF were ticketing Uber drivers this week at Outside Lands Festival because they were double-parking on the main exit roads from the festival as well as parking at bus stops...
Also here, one of the incumbent cab companies (DeSoto) has rebranded themselves as flywheel and gotten themselves a web app, so Uber is causing some positive response from the taxi industry here at least....I would still take a real cab over an Uber car given the choice myself
-I'm just sayin'
it just wants to hide behind the tech facade but it's a taxi service that should be regulated as such. everything else is just bullshit flowing from the mouth of a san francisco douchebag.
And even if Uber requires proof of commercial insurance from a driver in order to begin to drive for them, I can call up my insurance agent, get any insurance changes I need made and pay the premium over the phone, get paperwork sent to me to prove it, then call that agent up again a few days later and cancel the policy and get a refund sans the days that have already passed that I was covered for.
What a huge loophole, I'm surprised insurers and businesses they cover haven't found a way to prevent that.
Oh wait, they have. If Uber required that drivers obtain commercial insurance (individual policies are probably much more expensive than you think), they'd also require that Uber be listed as a Additional Insured on the policy, so they'll be notified if you cancel the policy.
You would still be breaking the law because you'd be driving without the coverage required by the law. It may also be fraud
"Lack of speed can be overcome. In the worst case by patience." --Znork
The only time I used uber was in San Fransisco, yes, I could use uber x, and save a little money, but what I actually did was use Uber to hail a cab. It wasn't about saving money, it was about finding an empty Cab three blocks away to come get me. There was also black car service. I'd actually be surprised if the majority of their business in areas with a semi decent taxi system is the private drivers ( not shocked, but a little surprised). The people I know that use them primarily use the black car and cab services in DC and San Fransisco.
Now, where I live, I've used UberX, but there isn't really an alternative to getting picked up and delivered locally in general.
Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
Why didn't taxi/cab companies come up with better service like Uber? Cost seems only one differentiator - at least in the area I live there's no cab company that has an app as sophisticated as Uber in terms of knowing where it is, how long does it take to come, estimated cost...etc.
It's also common for a new player to play to somewhat disadvantaged groups first in order to let the goodwill from their actions help force the changes they need to be in the market, only to drop those disadvantaged groups once they no longer need them anymore.
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
So if we normally say the fry guy has a job working for mcdonalds, than lets just say an uber driver has a job working for uber.
Although that's sort of true, the difference is that the Uber driver comes and goes as he pleases, while Fry Guy has a fixed schedule he must meet or be fired.
Because the Uber driver works completely at his/her own desecration (auto-correct error left intact because I found it amusing), it's truly a more "sharing" arrangement where the Uber driver says "I have some free time now, I'm willing to share my car and drive now". That's why to me the term is meaningful in a way for Uber drivers it's not for other jobs.
Do you think sharing is not the right term for Air BnB hosts either? If not, why not?
think about it from the standpoint of a technology metaphor. Lots of things in programming and computer hardware are "shared", otten with carefully controlled limits. It's ok for those uses of "sharing" to be used in other real world activities.
To summarize what I'm thinking here, I think any time you can arbitrarily offer up assets to other people whenever you feel like it, that is part of the "sharing economy" rather than something that is offered by a company according to the company schedule and needs.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Do you fuckers actually realize that driving a Taxi is a shit job?
The pay is shit, the hours are shit, and you have to put us with every random and not infrequently drunk, asshole who happens to need a ride.
You fuckers whining about the "taxi monopoly" are just trying to take some regulations to try and make a shit job not quite a shit job and undermine them with an endless supply of suckers and temps who need a few extra bucks because they have shit jobs as well.
Fix the fucking economy so the millionaires and billionaires aren't seizing all the economic growth form themselves while putting others out of work and things will be resolved. But right now there are a few assholes running Uber who sitting on 50 billion dollars and screwing over a lot of poor bastards who are working their asses off trying to survive.
Uber doesn't care about it's serfs.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
You will most likely get a Short Rate refund, not pro rata.
Doesn't work that way in the UK. "Named drivers" do not get told of anything, only the person taking out the insurance policy does.
I only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't looking good either. - Scott Adams
Doesn't work that way in the UK. "Named drivers" do not get told of anything, only the person taking out the insurance policy does.
"Named driver" is different than "additional insured", at least in the USA. Being additional insured means that you *are* notified about changes in the policy. I'd be very surprised if the UK doesn't have a similar concept even if it's called something different.
I'm not the same AC. Can't bother to login...
Uber is a company, it does business. It undercuts competition by operating absolutely and completely illegal.
It saves costs by risking drivers
it saves costs by risking passengers
it saves costs by refusing to follow regulations
it saves costs by arrogance to even determine how much taxes they want to pay...nope this is for real
it saves costs by deciding costs and not the driver
it saves costs by not recognizing that their "drivers" are really employees
it saves costs by screwing their "not employees, happy contractors"
it saves costs by ripping deluded investors (hey something good has to had)
it saves costs by killing taxi services...driving out real taxi cabs, and then in the dark of no service, too low fare to be attractive...bind em all and become the dark lord of... taxi monopoly, and up the prices to the dark sky.
Some lame, low intellect, kinda orcs, more like fallto-many-times-on-the-head-goblins will try to help sauron to win and dominated all the... you aren't smeagol??? meaning that you're are quite dumb...
Uber Technologies Inc. is an American international transportation network company headquartered in San Francisco, California. The company develops, markets and operates the Uber mobile app. Wikipedia.
They are a software company and not a taxi service company. Technologies Inc, not Driving Inc. What they are doing right now is illegal they need to take appropriate steps just like every other taxi company to become a fully licensed taxi service. Either become a licensed taxi service company or they can sell a monthly plan service to independent licensed taxi drivers but by doing this they cannot take a percentage of what the drivers earn because that is illegal.
argghhhhh!
but they are far more professional.
Gogo van is the cheap one!
some of it, like safety and taxes, is valid and important and not a joke
Uber provides insurance to drivers, and other guarantees to riders.
Uber is *safer* that taxis because of all the tracking going on. The Uber app is tracking both rider AND driver so there is extremely strong disincentive for either party to do anything to the other.
With taxis the driver may well not be tracked at all, or can chose to disable tracking. With taxis you, the rider, are probably not being tracked so the ability to just drag you off to an abandoned warehouse and kill you is just as easy as delivering you to your destination.
Or perhaps you meant car safety? I have been in many cabs that had terribly worn interiors, some that had obvious mechanical defects. I have never been in a poor quality Uber car, not town cars nor UberX - because Uber inspects them. Uber does not want a ratty car representing the service where taxi companies literally do not have to care at all because they are a monopoly with guaranteed business in many locations like airports.
Similarly for driver safety - with Uber bad drivers get bad ratings and are dimmed out quickly. Evil taxi drivers get sent to Miami to work the airport run.
Honestly, if someone were concerned about security alone they would NEVER take a taxi over Uber. That's my feeling now, after years of horrific taxi experiences.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I think the point to be taken here is that this regulatory racketeering is totally unnecessary and if I was given the option to sign a waiver to take the uber then why not? Its much more convenient and economical and cuts out all the middle men. Fuck the insurance industry and the government. What have either of them done for me?
At least they collect revenue providing a tangible service u like the government and insurance industry who funnel money up to the 1% the cost of which gets handed down to the end user
Insurance as a tax? No thanks. Income taxes should be the only tax.
In hk its just about
Getting a taxi in the night that takes you through the tunnel to the island can need you to ask 30+ taxis in the night. And would they pay in an accident? I seriously doubt that.
Ask that again after taking an uber ride and being involved in an accident that leaves you seriously insured.
If a train station is a place where a train stops, what's a workstation?
I talked with and signed up for Uber as a driver and they are on purpose breaking the law in Missouri. In Missouri you are required to have a "Class E" license to drive for pay. It even says in the state driving handbook that taxis, couriers and even pizza delivery drivers are suppose to have "Class E" license. I met Uber staff here in St. Louis at one of their events and point blank asked them about this and was told by the staff that I didn't need a "Class E" license to drive for them. I asked specifically about it saying the state requires it for this type of driving and was told "well we don't require our drivers to have it."
People have commented on here that Uber also inspects the drivers car to make sure they are ok. Nope that is false. I am approved to drive for Uber and they have never seen my car. In fact I didn't even drive the car I listed with them to this meeting. So there was no possible way for them to see it or inspect it.
Now Uber isn't licensed to operate here yet and I suspect they may never be given they don't want to agree to the same type of license requirements here in St. Louis that Taxi companies are required to do. But the funny thing is that Uber agreed to the same type of terms in Dallas to operate. So Uber claiming they can't make money if they agree to the terms the city wants is complete crap.
There is nothing special about Uber and in fact they are in many ways a substandard version of taxi service that just happens to have a phone app instead of calling the taxi company for a ride. Given the process I went through to drive for Uber I am not at all impressed and given news reports of problems with Uber drivers in other cities assaulting people I am not surprised at all.
Fact - Uber provides insurance to driver and passengers from the moment the ride is accepted until they are dropped off. The driver must provide proof of personal insurance which would be used in between rides.
What 'tangible' service? They are just free riders which happen to be receiving payments in a jurisdiction where the tax authorities of the countries they operate in cannot get a hold of them.
There are three uber-like services at home, they all operate similar web services. The only difference is they provide those services to registered taxi operators -- individuals or companies.
Amazingly, they don't have problems with the law.
Businesses are required to carry a higher level of automotive liability coverage for their vehicle than a non-commercial driver. This is due the higher number of hours spent on the road which increases the total risk of the vehicle being involved in an accident.
Your ability to sign a waiver does not magically cause every other pedestrian, vehicle, and property owner to sign the same waiver that absolves the uber driver and his vehicle of liability for damages that he causes while providing you a service.
"Lack of speed can be overcome. In the worst case by patience." --Znork
in the UK a named driver has the same insurance cover when driving the car as the policy holder (so long as they have the permission of the car owner to drive it at the time, if you don't have permission you're not insured by that policy). You dont get any notifications from the insurance company. I'm a named driver on my wife's policy, as well as my mum and my dad. my insurance covers me for driving other cars (so long as i have the owners permission) but it only covers me third party; that is to say it'll only payout to fix damage to others not to me or the car i'm driving.
There is in the UK.
* All motor vehicle insurance (private, commercial, passenger service vehicle) policies that are active are on a database, coverage dates are known also all other basic details as you'd expect.
* Ministry of Transport tests (yearly or more frequent vehicle road worthy and safety tests).
* Road fund licenses (a yearly tax based on size, CO2 emissions, type and purpose of vehicle use that is intended to fund highway maintenance although we have very heavy fuel taxation over 70% and VAT on top of that).
* Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency, this government body manages vehicle identification, registration plate issuing, ownership. It also regulate driver license categories, you need to pass specific tests for car, motorbike, minibus, small lorry, large lorry, coach/bus driver. Some of these tests are good until old age, some need to be refreshed, some have mandatory medical fitness tests.
These things are all updated in near real-time to all agencies that use the information to monitor and regulate traffic. With the number of road traffic cameras in the UK it is expected many of these to be hooked upto monitor usage of a license plate.
Everything is regulated for consumer safety.
To be a taxi driver you need a vehicle registered for that purpose (and therefore subject to stricter MOT safety testing),
You need a driver with a suitable license to carry other passengers, so basically clean enough without problematic endorsements,
You probably need a criminal background check and other such public safety checks,
You need suitable insurance for the vehicle and number of passengers.
Then you can work as a Taxi driver and work for "Hire or Reward conveying passengers in a vehicle".
So now can Uber work? It costs time and money to get and maintain all these things above. This is why you pay a higher fare.
Blocking uber is a clear and unambiguous test that the local government is corrupt and has been bought off by local business interests. Clearly Uber is in the public interest. Regardless of insurance or other values imposed by the local regulators Uber customers are choosing to drive with uber. They have made a clear and unambiguous rejection of the existing system and any "virtues" that regulation has blessed it with. Yet local governments then proceed to spit in the faces of these users and drivers with the clear goal of protecting the local taxi industry.
How exactly each local government official has been bribed is probably as different as there are governments but when democratic governments are acting in the interests of the very few and against the very many there has to be some form of incentive driving this undemocratic behaviour. Essentially corruption.