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Police Body Camera Business All About the Video Evidence Storage

Lucas123 writes: Body cameras are the fastest growing segment of the police video camera business. The two largest police body camera manufacturers today — Taser and VieVu — say they've shipped devices to 41% of the nation's 18,000 police departments. But, the hardware is only the basis for the real business: video evidence storage. Last year, Taser's gross profit margins on hardware were 15.6%; the gross margins for video storage were 51%, according to Glenn Mattson, who follows Taser as an equity analyst for Ladenburg Thalmann. "There's no contest. They don't care about making money on the cameras," Mattson said. As of the first quarter of this year, more than a petabyte of police video has been uploaded to Taser's Evidence.com service. Just one of VieVu's clients, the Oakland PD, has uploaded more than a million police videos. The cost of storage, however, is so high that police departments have been forced to determine strict retention policies, that in some cases may effect the long-term handling of evidence. In Birmingham, Ala., for example, where they've deployed 300 cameras and hope to double that this year, the the video cameras themselves cost about $180,000, but the department's total outlay for a five-year contract including cloud storage with Taser will be $889,000.

99 comments

  1. Sounds like by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It is a market ripe for some competition.

    --
    The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    1. Re:Sounds like by ComputerGeek01 · · Score: 2

      Competition? Hah! Did you forget how government contracts work?

    2. Re:Sounds like by mwvdlee · · Score: 4, Interesting

      May I remind the law enforcement agencies that, despite video file storage being ubiquitous and cheap, they have to abide by the inexplicably DMCA-entangled file formats of the camera's and their overpriced storage servers. No reverse engineering the trivial protection scheme and buying cheap servers. You are vendor-locked.

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    3. Re:Sounds like by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Typically they are put out for bid.

    4. Re: Sounds like by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      And how does one get qualified to bid?

      And as an old acquaintance of men did, he gave his wife controlling interest of his company so that he could bid as a minority owned business. Coupled with his political connections - it's good to donate to polÃtical candidates - he's doing quite well.

    5. Re: Sounds like by cayenne8 · · Score: 3, Informative

      And as an old acquaintance of men did, he gave his wife controlling interest of his company so that he could bid as a minority owned business. Coupled with his political connections - it's good to donate to polÃftical candidates - he's doing quite well.

      Yep, that's how it works.

      Basically, "Two White Guys, Inc" will not be even considered for a federal govt contract, and really most state and local ones either.

      So, what you do is partner with (and giving 51%) an established minority owned company (if it is a female minority owner, you have hit the jackpot)...or you do like you suggested and make your own company in your wife's name...you'd just better trust her.

      But anyway, you submit as a female/minority owned contractor, and with the larger contracts you are basically just the front end for a larger company that wouldn't qualify, like Lockheed or that level....and apply for the contract.

      Once the contract is awarded, you usually go through a couple of cycles of the losers suing to block it and the govt has to review its proceedings, etc...and finally it gets awarded....lather, rinse repeat.

      And there you have it..that is how things are done in the Fed Govt. contracting world.

      --
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    6. Re: Sounds like by hey! · · Score: 1

      What your experience is like depends on which level of government you're working with. I had a business that had hundreds of municipal, county and state clients, and life was simple. You put in a bid at competitive price and when you won you signed a relatively straightforward, common sense contract Then in the post 9/11 era we started bidding on the bonanza of federal anti-bioterrorism projects and life got very complicated. The big consultancies we were competing with usually formed wholly owned subsidiaries so as to contain the arcane bookkeeping requirements. In a nutshell anyone can bid on contracts at the state level and below, but to bid on federal contracts you really need to specialize in that.

      Oh, and there's a big difference between states too. Insofar as state or local governments work at all, its because there are good people in them that have to take a lot of shit from the public and from their deadwood colleagues; but generally places where the public is the most cynical have the most deadwood It's a chicken-or-egg thing. If public employees are

      It helps to be connected anywhere of course, although ideally that shouldn't matter. It also helps anywhere to be personable, attractive (especially for women), and to like golf. We hired an engineer who was probably the second worst engineer we ever hired, but he played golf and liked to go out with the clients for a drink after work. Best. Hire. Ever.

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    7. Re:Sounds like by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For legal reasons this is probably a feature.

    8. Re:Sounds like by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Who cares about competition when evidence i stored in the cloud managed by a weapons manufacturer? Oh my. You guys were fucked years ago but this just opened up a brand new hole, so to speak.

    9. Re:Sounds like by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      CIA allegedly uses AWS, so perhaps a police department could use it as well..

    10. Re: Sounds like by dave420 · · Score: 1

      It's not how it happens, but it gels nicely with your preconceived notions of the world. Won't someone please think of all the rich white guys! They have it so tough!

  2. Well.... by Kierthos · · Score: 1

    I'm sure the various police departments will come up with a comprehensive policy for retention of evidence that will be completely glitch-free and non-controversial. .........

    And if you believe that, I'd got a bridge I'd like to sell you.

    --
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    1. Re:Well.... by Cytotoxic · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That may be a part of the advantage of going with one of these vendors. We sometimes hear about malfunctioning cameras when police are accused of abuse. Sometimes multiple cameras malfunction at the same time.

      A properly designed system would make deleting evidence difficult, and even if the evidence were to be deleted, it would likely leave an audit trail showing that the video did indeed exist at one point and reveal when and how it was deleted.

    2. Re:Well.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The police union will have to go up a bit to pay the extra fee to have those cameras and the data storage "malfunction" when it is convenient for them.

    3. Re:Well.... by Fnord666 · · Score: 1

      And if you believe that, I've got a badge I'd like to sell you.

      FTFY

      --
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    4. Re:Well.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Even if camera malfunction is 100% direct abuse, allowing police to get away with violations of the law.... ...the extra effort it takes to pull it off, combined with the extra suspicion and public response when it is to frequent, will still create enough incentive to keep these things on that police behavior will still be better than it was before the cameras were in use.

      And that's the real goal.

      I just wish some competition could be introduced to pull costs down.

    5. Re:Well.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ok then no video = auto not guilty for traffic tickets DUI AS WELL.

      that also means no court fess, no points, no loss of license, must refund any towing / storage feeds.

      We have to make it hard on the cops / system and say if you mess up then people get off.

      Just think of the out rage when people get off DUI when bob's low cost cloud messes up and loses the video.

    6. Re: Well.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is this a good use of a blockchain or what! Thanks bitcoin.

  3. Cheap by sycodon · · Score: 1

    5 terabytes, $150.

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    1. Re:Cheap by gstoddart · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Sure, a drive is cheap ... having a robust and secure system (which I doubt they have) which gives you retention policies and other stuff suitable for evidentiary purposes is a much harder problem.

      And then you get into some other stuff.

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    2. Re:Cheap by sycodon · · Score: 1

      I'm skeptical that the people selling this stuff are using a Dell SAN with tape backup and Iron Mountain coming twice a week. It's likely the same crappy no name PCs with one of these very same drives, but charging thousands for the drive instead of $150-200.

      Either way, the argument that increased storage is expensive is crap.

      --
      When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    3. Re:Cheap by Cytotoxic · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Hardly relevant to the discussion. We are talking about enterprise storage and backup, with archival record-keeping. At a minimum I would expect two physically separated sites for storage and online duplication, plus backup and additional offsite storage. That's all stuff that comes along with the cloud storage contracts.

      When you start getting up over 100k per year as Birmingham is, it might start to look attractive to take it in-house. Depending on what sort of data storage and retention infrastructure they already have, it might make sense to build out for this purpose as well. But smaller departments will never have the capacity for doing this in-house. Not only do you need the servers, storage systems, networks and backups at two sites, you also need a 24/7 staff capable of handling it. That's way more than 100k per year just in labor. If you already have that staff and storage network in place, adding additional storage would make plenty of sense. If you don't, not so much.

      Plus, in order to do it right you need to maintain a proper chain of custody and security for the video evidence that might be used in court. And given how we've seen videos mysteriously vanish in some police abuse cases, this is no trivial matter.

      So no, a couple of 5 terabyte drives from newegg isn't gonna cut it, even for a small town police department.

    4. Re:Cheap by bev_tech_rob · · Score: 1

      Sure, a drive is cheap ... having a robust and secure system (which I doubt they have) which gives you retention policies and other stuff suitable for evidentiary purposes is a much harder problem.

      And then you get into some other stuff.

      No kidding......talk about a hacker target ripe for the picking...... :(

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    5. Re:Cheap by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      a robust and secure system which gives you retention policies and other stuff suitable for evidentiary purposes is a much harder problem.

      It is not that hard. Any development cost is a one-time fixed expense.

      This is just a scam, taking advantage of government procurement policies that are focused on up-front costs, while ignoring on-going expenses that occur after the next election cycle.

    6. Re:Cheap by gstoddart · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Oh, I have no doubt that Taser is overcharging ... and I strongly suspect they're not as secure and robust as they need to be for something warehousing police data. But the cost of increased storage is seldom limited solely by the cost of the media.

      And for legal purposes of any organization with a real retention schedule for whom failing to comply is a risk ... you can't just buy a cheap hard drive and pretend you've solved the problem.

      If these things are going to be legal records, they need to be secure, backed up, under a strict retention schedule, retrievable.

      Which tells me if you think the added cost of that kind of storage is 'crap' you've probably never done it.

      Sure, they're probably gouging, but there better be more to it than just slapping in cheap drives to a cheap machine ... or they'll find themselves explaining to a whole bunch of police forces why they're doing that.

      Unless of course all of these police forces have been hoodwinked into buying a system with a license which says "this system may or may not work, but we're not responsible if it doesn't". In which case law enforcement are really terrible at IT contracts.

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      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    7. Re:Cheap by known_coward_69 · · Score: 1

      it's even cheaper if you build a P2P distributed file storage network out of millions of PC's in millions of mommy's basements

    8. Re:Cheap by Cytotoxic · · Score: 1

      I think the hacker tool of choice in this case would be a FOIA request. Most states have sunshine laws that would make these public records. All you have to do is walk down to the courthouse and make a request.

    9. Re:Cheap by afidel · · Score: 1

      I doubt it's a Dell SAN, it's MUCH more likely they're using EMC object storage with bring your own hardware (aka ECS) or something similar. Storing lots of large video files with retention metadata and access control just screams object storage (frankly one of the few things that does).

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    10. Re:Cheap by torkus · · Score: 1

      Sure, until they point to the contract they signed with Taser, etc. with some random stipulations which make it impossible (or at least very difficult/costly) to disclose. Just like the cell tower spoofing which someone was contractually secret even though that should have been overriden by existing laws.

      "Ok, let's write this agreement so when things disappear it's no ones fault, no one can request open access, no one can get files they want without lots of hoops and lawsuits, oh, and anything potentially harmful to the IT company is off limits...and *wink wink* we know that you providing footage of a cop committing murder would be harmful."

      --
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    11. Re:Cheap by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, because EMC ATMOS has really taken off in the market!

      No, wait, it hasn't, because it's a steaming pile of shit. EMC make some fantastic products, but ATMOS isn't one of 'em.

      AC because I work in the storage industry.

    12. Re:Cheap by bev_tech_rob · · Score: 1

      If these things are going to be legal records, they need to be secure, backed up, under a strict retention schedule, retrievable.

      If they go all out on a closed source backup solution (Networker, Tivoli, Arcserve, etc), big costs will be incurred buying, licensing and maintaining the backup hardware / software. Ongoing costs for blank storage media whether tape or removable hard drives (depending on the backup scheme used), offsite storage costs if they want any DR capability, hiring someone or training someone on-staff to handle the restore / tape rotation requests, etc.

      --
      You're messin' with my Zen Thing, man.....
    13. Re:Cheap by mlts · · Score: 1

      Depending on the backend, it could just be a filesystem, like WAFL/OnTap or OneFS. The videos get stashed per owner ID, and a database on a different box keeps the meta data in sync, deleting videos that expire.

      Coupled with something like Isilon's SmartLock (which, in compliance mode, keeps stuff from being deleted unless one logs on as console root), it would provide decent protection against changes/deletions, barring physical compromise.

      There are a lot of ways (some good, many brain-dead) to store video. A NAS can be used, or some type of cluster with EMC VNX LUNs and another machine doing an object database manage things.

    14. Re:Cheap by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Amazon will do all those things for you, for $10/TB/month with their "Amazon Glacier" service (which is probably what Taser is using on their backend).

    15. Re:Cheap by Noah+Haders · · Score: 1

      What about the black hatter that goes in and erases everything. Troll the world!

    16. Re:Cheap by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I had you marked as a troll, but now I see you're just a complete imbecile.

  4. Long term storage by fred911 · · Score: 1

    So they've spent $180k a year including 5 years of storage. Doesn't sound too out of line and there's third party validation. I bet there's added expense for verifying and exporting data for prosecution and expert testimony fees.

      So when does the public get access to data we paid for?
       

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    1. Re:Long term storage by GLMDesigns · · Score: 1

      So when does the public get access to data we paid for?

      Do you really want all video made public everywhere for everyone at anytime? There are privacy concerns.

      It's good that these cameras are being used but that doesn't mean that everything enters the public domain.

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    2. Re:Long term storage by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As soon as the taxpayer absorbs the cost of personnel that goes along with this. The constituency has demanded this but do not realize the added costs involved. They can't just hand over the video without reviewing and redacting the video. This is a major process to abide by privacy laws, etc. "Be careful what you ask for as you may get it...."

      Nothing is for free..

    3. Re:Long term storage by BradleyUffner · · Score: 1

      So when does the public get access to data we paid for?

      You don't; in the same way we don't get to drive around the the tanks that the military buys with our money.

    4. Re:Long term storage by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No just the case that went to court, where someone was killed or when one of the party involved ask for it. Everything else is noise, anything less would allow abuse by whom ever control the archives (hint: that is the police)

    5. Re:Long term storage by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You mean the added profits extracted from the taxpayer. Everything has to be charged for and paid out, every little bit examined, and at least two or three contractors employed.

    6. Re:Long term storage by Errol+backfiring · · Score: 1

      This is a major process to abide by privacy laws

      If the police abides privacy laws, then why are all the videos uploaded to a private company's server? Aren't there laws against that?

      --
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    7. Re:Long term storage by Cytotoxic · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure how much privacy law would be involved. As long as they are on duty these are public officials going about their duties. As such they have no expectation of privacy - so anything they say and do can be recorded. There is plenty of case law to consider the matter settled.

      And anyone interacting with the police are engaged in a public act - even if they are doing so involuntarily.

      The only real privacy issue would be if the camera was left on when the officer entered a truly private space, like a restroom. Or if he forgot to turn it off before having a private conversation while off the clock.

    8. Re:Long term storage by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What privacy concerns? Maybe all the courts should be closed to the public as well.

    9. Re:Long term storage by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Minors, suicides, sex crime victims, domestic abuse, murder victims, the surprising number of people who are nude when the cops show up...do we really need to go down this line?

    10. Re:Long term storage by GLMDesigns · · Score: 1

      I agree with that. All parties involved in the case should have access as well as if there is a compelling public reason. For instance all cases where a person is shot by a cop.

      --
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    11. Re:Long term storage by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not true. I might invite the police into my house to discuss official business. That doesn't mean that YOU have a right to the information that I discussed with the police, especially if the matter never results in an arrest, court action, or even an investigation.
      Perhaps I had misgivings about the behavior of one of my neighbors. The police investigate and find my misgivings were baseless. Should my innocent neighbor now be subject to public scandal because my conversation with police was recorded?
      Any interaction with a minor is subject to special privacy considerations in many jurisdictions. Recordings made in those circumstances are not subject to release to the media or individuals at random.
      Privacy in these cases is not a matter of privacy for the police, but for the citizens with whom they interact. And its not privacy to keep information from government, but from other people who have no right to that information.

    12. Re:Long term storage by amxcoder · · Score: 1

      I beg to differ. If a cop had some reason to enter my house (or anyones for that matter), with or without consent, I would still expect privacy from the rest of the world. The fact that I wouldn't let a police officer into my house voluntarily, doesn't mean that if they had some warrant, or chased some bad guy into the house, or was responding to a fake 911 call and had to do a "check-up", does not mean the public at large has right to view that footage (unless a justifiable case evolved from it).

      It's bad enough that police can use whatever excuse they can think of to violate peoples privacy, the last thing we want is for violation of privacy to be followed by millions of "youtube" viewers following behind them when they do it.

    13. Re:Long term storage by Cytotoxic · · Score: 1

      I agree that this is a serious concern. But I am not sure the law is prepared to deal with that. Currently, if you make such a complaint and the police follow their procedures, they'll fill out a report with their version of the content of your conversation. This report will be discoverable by an open records request - by anyone who wishes to make the request.

      There is beginning to be a cottage industry of folks making such requests and posting the results to the internet. It might be a matter of time until this reaches critical mass for the public to begin pushing back, but right now it looks like there will be an opportunity for such dirty laundry airing with or without the cameras.

    14. Re:Long term storage by Cytotoxic · · Score: 1

      Except I don't think that is the state of the law at this point. Public officials doing their job are by definition "public". So talking to them is talking to the public. At least that seems to be the current state of case law on the topic.

      This is one of the reasons that FOP reps give for opposing body cams.

      Take a look on the internet - there's lots of footage from helmet cams and body cams of swat raids that were FIOA requested by third parties. Even if there was no criminal case to be made at all. All they have to do is fill out some paperwork and the law in most places says they have to provide whatever public records exist pertinent to that request - including video.

    15. Re:Long term storage by amxcoder · · Score: 1

      You may be right, but the law and the retention policies need to change to reflect this. Otherwise, it's the digital equivalent of "if a cop goes into a persons house, then all their neighbors are free to follow them inside and look around too". Since this situation is currently not the case when cameras are not present, it should not be acceptable with cameras. It's still private property, and nosy neighbors can't use a police visit to wander into other peoples home and snoop around.

      I understand what you are saying, that your conversation is somewhat public record, since the police can and do include your statements in an official report, but that is totally different than entering into public record a complete visual recording of the inside of your house, complete with HD video of your half naked self (or family members), the trash, dirty laundry, piled up dishes and the whole nine yards. Even if you are always "decent" and company ready when this happens, it should be noted that it could be a safety issue to show all the valuables that are in the house as well to "the world". A thief's dream come true, to know the layout of the house, along with what goodies are in there to steal later, and all the family members that may get in your way in the process. That kind of detail does not currently exist in written reports that become public record.

      Not to mention other factors, that are less grey area, like the recording of innocent 3rd parties that may be at your house, but not involved in the situation that brings the cops, as well as protecting minors and children/babies from repercussions of video taping them and distributing to the world.

      How long will it take before some FOIA request turns up naked people (within the confines of their own home, expecting privacy), and is released and posted on the internet, for everyone including their family and employers to see. Is that NOT a blatent violation of privacy? It's illegal when ex-boyfriends post photos like that without the person's permission, and in the existing context, most of the photos are taken by the person posing nude, and transmitted/given away with consent implied.

      I don't think having the police bust down your door, and catching you naked in bed and having that footage get out on the internet constitutes a willful consent of disseminating naked pictures of yourself. Most people in that context don't ASK for the police to come to their house and don't have the choice to not let them in. I'm sure it's embarrassing enough when it happens when there are only a hand-ful of officers there, but having a permanent record of that, could be life ruining in some contexts...

    16. Re:Long term storage by Cytotoxic · · Score: 1

      Your "how long until" hypothetical is already in the past. Not only on the internet, but on national broadcast television. There have been plenty of no-knock raids on TV with half-clothed or naked folks being terrorized in their own homes, cowering on the floor at the point of an assault rifle where the raid turned up no evidence of any criminal activity. Sometimes it is even a wrong-address raid. Usually looking for drugs. Sometimes looking for a fugitive.

      It is a pretty revealing situation to note that the reaction to this by the most activist civil-liberties types will be "at least they didn't shoot the dog". Violating people's privacy is so far down the list that it doesn't even get a mention when people are fairly frequently getting wounded or killed in these sorts of circumstances. Even the rabid civil liberties folks are more concerned with holding police accountable so that people aren't getting shot in the middle of the night in their own home than they are with the privacy concerns of having the videos they are using for that accountability becoming public in other situations.

  5. Video isn't that expensive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    What surprises me is that video storage is an issue at all. With 1 PB falling under $15,000 (two Backblaze Storage Pod 4.5s), coupled with a NAS head. 45Drives has 450 terabyte units with FreeNAS for $8800 each.

    On the other hand, evidence.com pricing isn't that bad either. $100 per officer per month gets unlimited storage. This is a very inexpensive price to pay relatively... far cheaper than dealing with even one lawsuit.

  6. The cost doesn't sound too far out of line by sirwired · · Score: 1

    If take into account the "Razors and Razorblades" business model for the storage, the costs don't sound too far out of line. While certainly this is far more expensive than just buying some JBODs of near-line disk, such an installation would not be nearly good enough for legal evidence.

    That said, for larger departments, this is just begging for a short-term local disk (with some sort of certified software) along with swift duplication to WORM LTO cartridges.

  7. Technology can come to the rescue by qfwfq · · Score: 1

    18,000 departments, and I did some quick googling to estimate 800,000 state and local law enforcment individuals. More than cost, what preserves the public interest in access legitimacy, integrity, durability, and destruction of information? If private corporations provide such services using proprietary systems, how can anyone base legal arguments on such information given the lack of visibility and assurance in those concerns? If multiple systems are developed to provide said properties how can that be considered economically efficient given the substantial costs in assurance. It would seem as though there are two fundamental currencies in such a system, access and artifacts. Each of those currencies can be managed via a distribute crypto-currency technology (aka bitcoin). The community transaction clearing responsibility would be offered by a consortium of public/non-profit and volunteer "auditors of liberty". The municipal and state agencies are currently (2015) paying $300/yr per officer or 240M/yr. I can see no reason that number does not increase dramatically with services/addons (and greed) as this industry embeds itself more in the critical necessity of the criminal justice system. If half that $ is initially required of the users, and the community of ACLU, American Bar Association, Police Union (a robust system protects both the accused as well as the accuser) as well as other stakeholders contribute; I believe that a trust can be established to well support the development and deployment of such a system. There is an opportunity and a responsibility to provide a critical service to protect the rights and digity of ourselves as individuals and as a community.

    Spread the idea and make it happen. Nerds and Geeks to the rescue of society.

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  8. Gross margins versus Net margins by sjbe · · Score: 4, Informative

    Before anyone gets too worked up, a 50% GROSS profit margin is nothing too exciting for something that is basically a software business. If it were a 50% NET profit margin then that would be different and the net profit margin is the one that really matters - it's the so-called bottom line. Gross profit margins are just the revenue minus the direct cost involved in the service (direct labor and materials mostly). It does not include cost of sales, marketing, overhead, administration, indirect labor, utilities, etc)

    For comparison software companies typically have gross margins considerably higher than 50%. For example Microsoft had a 66% gross profit margin last quarter. A manufacturing company typically has gross profit margins between 10-30%. GM and Lockheed Martin have gross profits of around 11% for example. Toyota has gross profits around 20%.

  9. Expensive is good by silas_moeckel · · Score: 3, Interesting

    It leads to not keeping things around just because it was easier/cheaper than figuring out what to keep. Seems trivial to flag all open cases/complaints etc and ditch the rest after a set period.

    It also should not be a cheap NAS box onsite, It should be written out to multiple worm tapes with full audit logging. Throw in cryptographic signing preferably with a third party so you need 3 people to collude rather than 2 and happen on the device as well (with a key generated on the device within TPM type hardware). Hashes should be generated to so there is a paper trail to help prove the video has not been altered. Physical security of at least one WORM tape.

    At the end of the day it should be implemented with the least amount of trust as possible, the cop should have that hash to protect himself. The camera signing the footage coupled with a cosigning from a 3rd party makes it hard to tamper with the data. WORM tapes make it very hard to alter after the fact. A physically secured copy gives the opposing side something to examine.

    Sure all this can be gotten around point is to make it very hard to do so, and that no one break after the fact can succeed.

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    1. Re:Expensive is good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It leads to not keeping things around just because it was easier/cheaper than figuring out what to keep. Seems trivial to flag all open cases/complaints etc and ditch the rest after a set period.

      It also should not be a cheap NAS box onsite, It should be written out to multiple worm tapes with full audit logging. Throw in cryptographic signing preferably with a third party so you need 3 people to collude rather than 2 and happen on the device as well (with a key generated on the device within TPM type hardware). Hashes should be generated to so there is a paper trail to help prove the video has not been altered. Physical security of at least one WORM tape.

      At the end of the day it should be implemented with the least amount of trust as possible, the cop should have that hash to protect himself. The camera signing the footage coupled with a cosigning from a 3rd party makes it hard to tamper with the data. WORM tapes make it very hard to alter after the fact. A physically secured copy gives the opposing side something to examine.

      Sure all this can be gotten around point is to make it very hard to do so, and that no one break after the fact can succeed.

      Cases that are closed, no more appeals left, not subject to IG, FOIA requests.. so you know.. only a few decades of retention there.
      An expensive implementation...
      Manpower to audit all this...

      So maybe some big cities will do it. Nice plan.

  10. "It's not that hard"? by sirwired · · Score: 3, Insightful

    There are entire industries built around data storage and administration solutions for regulatory compliance; it's not a trivial matter to create a system that will pass legal muster. This is far more than just a simple file repository; there's some initial software design, and also high ongoing administration costs (lots of paperwork inevitably involved.) Farming out this responsibility to a 3rd-party is a perfectly reasonable decision.

    1. Re:"It's not that hard"? by torkus · · Score: 1

      There's tons of existing audit tracking file storage options.

      Storage? Amazon or google are easy places to start - you can host the entire thing there. Heck, google can probably provide a youtube type interface for compressing footage etc. If they can handle umpteen billion hours of video then i'm sure they can handle police cameras.

      --
      You can get rich if you own a politician, but you have to be rich to buy one in the first place.
    2. Re:"It's not that hard"? by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      You aren't a lawyer are you?

      I'm not either, but I know that compressing the video would be a no no in the evidence area. You are modifying the data, that isn't allowed.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    3. Re: "It's not that hard"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No it's not. The current system deployed is accurately termed "Gay Deceiver". In honor of the blue wall surrounding the men and their love for men in general. It sucks up data no matter how trivial giving instant access at a wink.

    4. Re:"It's not that hard"? by flopsquad · · Score: 2

      I'm not so sure that's a hard and fast rule, especially for high quality (or lossless!) compression. Much like dashcam video and other forms of video evidence, bodycam footage will have to be erased periodically, if only because its impossible to continuously store the growing volume of every video ever recorded. And AFAIK this is a perfectly legal practice. I'm not aware of a legal precept that would make, e.g., keeping 2 years of uncompressed video fine, but deciding to keep 4 years of compressed video at the tradeoff of a bit of image quality somehow impermissible.

      Of course, this would be different if it was $murder_weapon, or even if it was $specifc_footage_of_crime. I think it would be reasonable to have a different policy in place for compressing and retaining general archival footage (98% of which will never be looked at), and for retaining unaltered footage of an incident.

      FWIW, IAAL (though I don't practice criminal law).

      --
      Nothing posted to /. has ever been legal advice, including this.
    5. Re:"It's not that hard"? by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      Thank you for the well written detailed response.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    6. Re:"It's not that hard"? by Noah+Haders · · Score: 1

      Are you high??

    7. Re:"It's not that hard"? by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      Am I high for thanking a lawyer for injecting actual legal opinions into a discussion of the law between to non lawyers? Not last time i checked.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    8. Re:"It's not that hard"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He was just asking because he is, every time he posts.

  11. Better design by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    After a month (or 6) compress it, encrypt it, tag it with metadata and throw it into Amazon Glacier for 1 cent a GB, plus upload fees (or send a copy of a physical hard drive...).
    Unless they are reviewing a stream for a case, they really don't need everything to be instantly available.

  12. Amazon and Google are missing out by MikeRT · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Amazon and Google could go to each state and offer a state-wide contract that puts all of the data in their clouds for peanuts compared to what these providers charge.

    1. Re:Amazon and Google are missing out by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Who is to say that these companies aren't just shipping it off to Amazon/Google?

  13. Guess who will hate body cams? Criminals by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Most cop haters think the cops will get the bad deal on body cams. But truth is police misconduct is few and far between and the camera's will now provide evidence on how unruly some suspects can be. It may even provide the cops with evidence to add further charges against a suspect. Dash cameras have been extremely helpful in proving a persons actions with police. Now it will become mobile and go into domestic violence scenes first hand documenting any aggressiveness.
    I think what it will also do is show how being a police officer dealing with people is a job that requires being on your toes and sometimes being aggressive. It may very well give us all the rest of the story and criminals may very well change their tune if a camera is filming their actions. Its like having a Cops film crew with every police officer. What better way to document crime then this?

    1. Re:Guess who will hate body cams? Criminals by sribe · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Most cop haters think the cops will get the bad deal on body cams. But truth is police misconduct is few and far between and the camera's will now provide evidence on how unruly some suspects can be. It may even provide the cops with evidence to add further charges against a suspect.

      Yep. I'll bet the video will help cops 9 times out of 10. BUT that 1 time in 10 is going to be very important to reforming the departments that need reform, stopping abuse, and rebuilding trust with the community.

      As an aside, here in Denver we recently had a remarkable case of how self-absorbed a sociopath can be--I think the rest of the country is in for a shock as to the extent that abusive cops will not curb their behavior when being recorded...

    2. Re:Guess who will hate body cams? Criminals by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As an aside, here in Denver we recently had a remarkable case of how self-absorbed a sociopath can be--I think the rest of the country is in for a shock as to the extent that abusive cops will not curb their behavior when being recorded...

      Are you going to give me enough detail to google for the story? I mean try googling for dirty cop denver and I am betting I find more then one issue to read about. How about a cops name, suspects name, etc

  14. I work for a data storage provider by nimbius · · Score: 4, Funny

    I work as a storage tech for a police video footage storage company. we guarantee indefinite archives, with five 9's of uptime in a secure location. At first people were skeptical of the prices, but using the latest high speed storage devices on a linux platform, theres simply no beating our performance.
    Storage to /dev/null (our in-house application) is automatic, and a monthly bill is generated once the null fills up which includes maintenance fees like replacing the old null with a fresh, empty null for storage. This fee, also referred to as an "invoice for the purchase of a Rolls Royce" is our only frustration as our billing system is confusing for customers. Things like "Vacation package, Spain" are actually the normal cost of sourcing fresh nulls and installing them. invoices for services such as "yacht" and "truffle pheasant" refer to our restore service which uses "/dev/urandom" technology to provide nearly infinite high quality video.

    --
    Good people go to bed earlier.
  15. Nation? by wonkey_monkey · · Score: 0

    Body cameras are the fastest growing segment of the police video camera business. The two largest police body camera manufacturers today — Taser and VieVu — say they've shipped devices to 41% of the nation's 18,000 police departments.

    Any particular nation?

    --
    systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
    1. Re:Nation? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Body cameras are the fastest growing segment of the police video camera business. The two largest police body camera manufacturers today — Taser and VieVu — say they've shipped devices to 41% of the nation's 18,000 police departments.

      Any particular nation?

      Singapore.

    2. Re:Nation? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What nation do you think? SMH You know it is a American centered site, so if it doesnt specify that guess what.

  16. Cop video storage is a moral hazard for Taser by swb · · Score: 2

    Body cameras haven't been around long enough to really know whether they will be predominantly exculpatory for the police or provide evidence of misconduct.

    But doesn't relying on a vendor who has a financial interest in continued sales to police organizations in charge of storing possible evidence of police misconduct create a significant moral hazard for Taser?

    If they come to be seen as an organization "too cooperative" with enforcement of rules against police misconduct, doesn't this imperil their image with the police and potential sales of equipment to the police? It would seem this would provide them with a subtle pro-police bias which could undermine the entire point of video cameras from the public's perspective.

    1. Re:Cop video storage is a moral hazard for Taser by Shadow+IT+Ninja · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It's no worse than the video being in the possession of the police themselves. Citizens who want to protect themselves against police misconduct will have to take their own video as they have had to in the past.

    2. Re:Cop video storage is a moral hazard for Taser by swb · · Score: 2

      I think it is worse -- when the police control it, the moral hazard and control issues are pretty obvious.

      When a third party controls it, it's more opaque. The police have plausible deniability to say "But we use a third party vendor, we didn't delete that video." The fact that Taser has a financial relationship with police departments is much less clear (to the general public at least) and it's a lot less clear that Taser has a neutral motivation with regard to these videos.

      To me, the solution should more likely be that some police oversight entity selects/approves/controls the video storage contract and probably should be contracting with a vendor who doesn't have a specific dependency on the police as a target market. That may be more difficult if regulations regarding these videos lend themselves to market specialization and you end up needing vendors who specialize in those markets.

      You'll end up with a similar moral hazard, but at least you'll have reduced the amount of financial influence the police have over the vendors.

    3. Re:Cop video storage is a moral hazard for Taser by swillden · · Score: 1

      The other side of this argument is that while individual police agencies don't have to retrieve video very often (except perhaps for very large ones, like NYPD), Taser will be getting requests on a daily basis. If they fail to "find" a substantial portion of those videos, it's going to become obvious -- and public -- very quickly. And the story will be that they're failing to do the primary job for which the taxpayers are paying them tens or hundreds of millions of dollars annually. That in turn will generate tremendous pressure on police departments to dump them. If agencies do their own storage they have a certain degree of plausible deniability around their own technical failures. Taser won't have that, and agencies won't have plausible deniability around their decision to use Taser once it's been headline news that Taser routinely fails.

      From Taser's perspective, I think that narrative is a pretty compelling argument for being very careful not to ever "lose" video. Some headlines could destroy their business very quickly. They could survive one or two rounds of such headlines, but once it's clear that they've had plenty of time to fix their operations and still fail, they'd be dead.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    4. Re:Cop video storage is a moral hazard for Taser by swb · · Score: 1

      But that's thing with a moral hazard -- just look at banking and securities. If you jack around the majority of your customers, it will become public and cause a shitstorm, but it doesn't make the moral hazard go away nor has it prevented all manner of moral hazards in banking from being exploited.

      And not every -- or any -- potentially "lost" video is going to be tied to some high profile incident where some innocent black woman in a wheel chair took a dozen rounds of 00-buck to her face. The most likely ones will be the low profile ones nobody cares about, where some obvious drunk got manhandled after bar closing and a dozen citizen eyewitness statements back the police version of events completely.

      And it's also not likely that Taser would just delete videos themselves -- that's too obvious. Rather than running a system that's totally secure from police tampering, the inclination will be to provide a "friendly" system that offers soft points where the police can prevent videos from getting uploaded at all under the guise of technical glitch or something.

    5. Re:Cop video storage is a moral hazard for Taser by swillden · · Score: 1

      As long as they're careful to never lose video that may become the subject of media attention, I suppose it's possible. That seems like a game that's guaranteed to end badly, though, because it's not possible to know what will and will not become big news. Some things are obviously big (e.g. deaths) but lesser issues may not blow up until some subsequent sequence of events.

      It seems like a really risky business strategy for Taser... and if any journalist ever caught wind of the "soft points", or any whistleblower decided to out them, it'd generate a firestorm.

      What you describe is very feasible in heavily manual processes, but automated systems operate in the way they're designed, without variation, and deliberate holes leave traces. With manual processes, the worst case is that the agency has to find a scapegoat, some low-level employee who was responsible for doing something and didn't. With automated systems, it's much harder to argue that the problem wasn't deliberate. It's easy enough the first time "It's a bug!", but it doesn't take long before people want to know why the bug hasn't been fixed.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    6. Re:Cop video storage is a moral hazard for Taser by swb · · Score: 1

      The thing is, I don't think it would be a stated business strategy.

      The nature of most moral hazards isn't that they're obvious conspiracies to do the wrong thing, but a set of biases and bad incentives that lend themselves to creating a situation where bad choices get made.

      As an example, drug addiction is a moral hazard for doctors. Doctors know that drugs can be habit forming. We expect doctors to be experts in administering them, to have reasonable ease of access to them for treating patients as best they can. The doctor believes his own expertise will prevent him from getting addicted to them. But expertise plus overconfidence in their own knowledge plus access results in a ton of doctors getting hooked on drugs.

      Taser for the most part sells stuff to cops. Taser would like to keep cops happy and keep buying cop stuff. Taser "knows its market" and understands what they want. At some point the desire to make money selling stuff to cops and knowing what cops want lends itself to creating holes in accountability, not because some executive said "they're good guys and good customers, they shouldn't get dragged down because some douchebag criminal got a good attorney" but because they want to please their market for reasons that are independently all completely normal and reasonable.

      With automated systems, it's much harder to argue that the problem wasn't deliberate.

      "When asked why the body camera video of the police beating didn't exist, despite the system supposedly being automated to upload them to remote secure storage, officials noted that 'network limitations' caused by 'budget constraints' prevented the video from being immediately uploaded as originally designed. Police data networks were overwhelmed when the system was first rolled out and the vendor, Taser, Inc, added an on-site caching feature that uploaded the videos in a slower and more controlled fashion to prevent network overload. A problem with the caching server at Police HQ caused 'only a handful' of videos to be lost and Taser officials said this risk will be fixed in a new version available sometime next year."

      Desire to sell your product + pleasing your customer = exploitable hole, even though nobody actually *conspired* to do this even though the design goal was the opposite. Had a vendor been selected whose first concern was guaranteeing data integrity, not necessarily accommodating the end user's specific desires, the hazard could be avoided. But this only happens if the vendor's allegiance can be to someone other than the cops, like some kind of oversight board whose principal interest is in data integrity.

      This way the vendor's goals are aligned with the purchaser's goals and the hazard is avoided.

  17. Taser makes cameras now? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Bringing new meaning to "Don't Tase me bro"?

  18. no data abuse by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Isn't anyone else overjoyed by the high price of storage? If this forces "strict retention policies", that is a win for privacy. While I also don't want to see evidence disappear and realize it is not always immediately obvious what is evidence of something, any time you have endless collection of data, it is ripe for privacy abuse.

  19. keh by sociocapitalist · · Score: 1

    "...the video cameras themselves cost about $180,000"

    Choked on my sandwich on that one.

    --
    blindly antisocialist = antisocial
    1. Re:keh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Why? That's $600 each, for 300 light weight, ruggedized cameras including all the associated hardware (batteries that will run the camera system for an entire 8-12 hour shift, spare batteries, chargers, docks, etc.). It likely also includes a few hot-spare cameras so that when one dies, it can be replaced *immediately* instead of waiting 2-3 days for the new one to show up in the mail, get configured, etc...

  20. One stop shopping for crminal surveillance by Shadow+IT+Ninja · · Score: 1

    One thing this setup does is to create a large target for criminals, foreign intelligence agencies, terrorists or anyone wanting to break into the video storage to learn about how a specific police department works.

  21. $150 doesn't even cover the cost of DC electricity by raymorris · · Score: 1

    Just the cost of reliable datacenter electricity alone costs more than that cheap spindle. Order that drive and see if it magically gets filled up with video, and magically makes backups of itself, which are stored for the proper amount of time before being rotated. Spindles are may 5% of enterprise storage costs (and they're not bottom of the barrel consumer drives).

    If you're a cheapskate like me, you CAN do 5 TB for $3,000 NRC, plus $150 / month.
    Times two for a backup site, so $6,000 NRC plus $300 / month.
    Obviously you don't want to backup just once daily, you should have rolling backups, a backup copy from last week, a copy from last month, etc.
    So $12,000 NRC plus $1,200 / month.
    Plus daily transfer to the backup site sites, so $12,000 plus $1,600 / month.
    Plus a qualified admin to manage this, including testing backups, replacing failed spindles, etc @ $100 / hour.

  22. Segment? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The "police video camera business" has segments?

    Kinda like saying single handed garlic presses are the fastest growing segment of the garlic press business. Sure there's the occasional two-hander and the luxury hands-free garlic press, but they hardly qualify as market segments.

  23. Storage for how long? by minstrelmike · · Score: 2

    The cost of storage will come down somewhat as folks figure out they're getting screwed by the vendors.
    But you need to come up with retention policies and rock hard evidence handling processes. Those are an extra cost
    but the biggest cost of all with be if there's a conviction using the film. If so, you've got to store that for the length of the prison term for appeals and stuff. The cost of the cameras themselves is irrelevant over the lifetime of the "project." same old same old.

  24. The real cost by ThatsNotPudding · · Score: 1, Troll

    The real reason of this costly storage is that incriminating evidence of an LEO executing someone can be completely deleted at a moments notice, with the traces left behind as that of a cosmic ray / solar flare incident.

    That there is zero talk of all the data being recorded to and held only by the DOJ is related to the same reason that there is _still_ no centralized, national database of LEOs shooting and killing people. It speaks volumes about the real agenda of state / local LEO w.r.t. all the minority communities nationwide. The Klan didn't so much disappear as having merely traded their white robes for blue and brown uniforms (and the license to murder with impunity).

  25. The value of data? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Cloud services - it's the HP ink cartridge for the new age.

    They're frequently not fungible - most vendors can't handle the bandwidth and storage requirements. You can't just move a few petabytes around without a bit of serious logistics or a really fat pipe. Consequently these data centers are swelling into bloated cash cow maintenance contracts. They probably should though, since a few exabytes of storage isn't easy to handle for an operation on the scale of Blahsville PD. Besides, having the footage out of the hands of the police means the process is a little less susceptible to corruption.

    Downside: As that data continues flowing into their datacenter it naturally accumulates value. As we realize that value they'll jack up the price of access. They can charge $+INF and we'll have no option but to pay because there's no other way to get it. Who owns your data (the NSA, guffaw)? This isn't a question we've answered properly yet. Disks have value, electricity has value, bandwidth has value, the actual bytes...well...we're not sure about that part. Exception: The RIAA (MP3 bytes are very expensive).

  26. It's not as easy as you think by sirwired · · Score: 2

    You can't have an uber-schpiffy S/W front end with all the proper auditing options, and then just shove the back-end up to a generic public cloud; that would never pass muster; a defense lawyer would have a field day with it, and a judge would toss that evidence out on it's sorry tuchus. Too many people that are not the ones that would be testifying as to the chain-of-custody would have full R/W access to it.

    There ARE ways to construct a cloud to have all the proper legal-compliance features, which is EXACTLY what Taser has sold the dept. mentioned in the summary.

  27. Re:$150 doesn't even cover the cost of DC electric by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Congratulations, you just re-invented Amazon Glacier (which cost $10/TB/month).

  28. AWS by Jumunquo · · Score: 1

    It's running on Amazon web services, says the article. Yea, they are making a killing. Makes me wonder why they don't just buy cloud storage themselves instead of through Taser.

  29. Some things never change. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's like my first mechanic guru told me when we were fixing a problem with a customer's brakes - "$1 is for the tapping, and $5 is for knowing where to tap." :-) The customer complained about the $25 charge to fix his brakes (a stuck caliper slide as I recall) because it only took 10 minutes to fix (including time to pull the car into the bay and hoist it on the lift). "$5 for the tapping, and $20 for knowing where to tap." was the response... :-)

    1. Re:Some things never change. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hardware is cheap. Storage is not. Hence the differential between the cost of hardware (fixed) and the cost of storage (volatile and variable).