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India Mulls Using Nuclear Power For Its Chandrayaan-2 Mission To the Moon
MarkWhittington writes: India is preparing its second mission to the moon, the Chandrayaan-2, as Space Insider noted. The mission will consist or an orbiter, a lander, and a rover. It will be launched on an Indian-built Geosynchronous Satellite Launch Vehicle (GSLV) in late 2017 or early 2018. Defense Daily reported that officials at the Indian Space Research Organization are mulling making the lunar mission nuclear powered, presumably with plutonium-fueled radioisotope thermoelectric generators (RTGs). RTGs use the heat of the decaying fuel to create electricity. Both the American and the Soviet space programs have used RTGs in their various spacecraft, the most recent one being the New Horizons space probe that recently flew past Pluto.
they can now attach those awesome 360 cameras on their spaceship.
unless ofcourse they cannot. then the earth is flat. right?
Unless they have a ZPM - in that case, they'd be stupid to opt for nuclear.
#DeleteChrome
Apparently making sure HTML tags are formatted correctly is too difficult for the "editors" around here...
That should read early 2018, not early 2017. Not a particularly helpful comment, I know *shrug*
how long before we have hundreds of India bashing bigoted comments......
Does India actually have a stockpile of 238Pu? If not then where are they supposed to get it in two years? It's not like the world is awash in the stuff, and it takes time to set up a program and make it.
Honestly, Chandrayaan-2 is only a near-Earth mission, and not a super-long one - they don't need a long half-life element like 238Pu. Dirt-cheap 90Sr probably makes more sense, it's a widely available waste product. Or if India really wanted to impress the world, they'd make an actual nuclear reactor for space missions, not just an RTG, and offer to make them for sale to other countries. Russia made a few of them near the end of the Cold War (TOPAZ), but it's anything but off-the-shelf technology today. Another option to do something actually noteworthy would be to make a stirling RTG and leave on the moon, racking up operational hours in a space environment to demonstrate its reliability. A flight-tested stirling RTG would also be something that the west doesn't have.
"This administration is so incompetent that they cover their tracks with bigger tracks." - Seth Meyers
Does this kind of thinking mark the passing of the baton to the 'developing' nations of India and friends?
Seems they've gotten their own irrational fear of nuclear power under some measure of control - how long until the West collectively understands that our failure to follow suit when it comes to space development will ultimately cost us our lead?
I may well be wrong but at this stage in our development I see chemical rockets as a means of orbital insertion and little more. If we intend to explore, we need to take nuclear propulsion seriously.
..Mullah or Pope, Preacher or Poet, who was it wrote: "Give any one species too much rope and they'll fuck it up"?
Space development is not going to happen. Ever. There's nothing to explore, much less to develop. What needs "developing" is simple common sense in the brains of deluded Space Nutters who cannot outgrow their silly fantasies.
We're still at 1AU or thereabouts, isn't it better to use solar panels and save the non-renewable Pu for past-Mars-orbit missions where solar panels won't work?
Liberty - Security - Laziness - Pick any two.
I would say the most recent RTG craft is the Curiosity Rover, launched in 2011. Where as the "New Horizons" was launched way back in 2006... and only recently reached its goal. Not the most recent nuclear craft to fly though.
There are wonders enough in our own star system and plenty of reason to explore, the challenge of inter-stellar distances notwithstanding.
..Mullah or Pope, Preacher or Poet, who was it wrote: "Give any one species too much rope and they'll fuck it up"?
The whole program is a one huge training in space project management as well as tech knowldge creation and conservation.
Thus the best way is to go nuclear. Create the tech and keep the infrastructure. There is nothing really new to find on the moon surface but the actual project is golden
And the fallout from one of these exploding in the air would be...?
blindly antisocialist = antisocial
First of all, there are tons of things to mine in space. Plus, much of the technology used just to get out there can often be put to use in other ways. Plus, there are certain things that can only be done in zero gravity conditions. Plus, at some point the technology will exist to actually start living decently out there without too excessive of a cost, which isn't really needed ever (despite how worried everyone seems to be about overpopulation) but could be a desirable alternative for many people.
"Ever" is a long time. It will be a few hundred years before it really pays off, but I still think it's worth it. It's not like we really spend that much on space exploration compared to everything else.
Like every other third world country?
Seems they've gotten their own irrational fear of nuclear power under some measure of control
Call me when they've gotten their indoor plumbing situation under some measure of control.
Which is a good thing, for sanitation is a technology that India has yet to master.
Actually, I wonder if it would make an impact to the Indian economy if the U.S aid money stops. U.S aid to India totals to 91 million dollars a year. This token amount is primarily for the strategic benefits of the US maintaining a relationship with India (vis-a-vis China and the anti-terror assistance w.r.t Pakistan). Compare that with aid to Isreal, a nation of 8 million people that receives a funding of 30 billion dollars in annual funding. Or the 1.5 billion dollars U.S gives to Pakistan, a state where most people want to burn the U.S to the ground. The aid to India is a drop in the bucket really.
Inter-stellar distances aren't just a "challenge". They are insurmountable. Completely. Sure, the space nuts will come back and say "Sure it is not possible now, but eventually we will have [insert Star Wars/Trek technology here]". That is science fiction. And don't say that "well airplanes used to be science fiction". That isn't true, and we now know the fundamentals of physics and math.
Why are we doing this again? Why not perfect Earth Orbit Rendezvous so we can re-use the technology to visit farther destinations? India should try something new instead of re-creating a mission from the 60's, albeit with no human crew.
It marks the passing of childish delusions to adult reality.
"If we intend to explore"
We already are. With our telescopes and cameras on wheels. No one needs to go anywhere.
"First of all, there are tons of things to mine in space."
Just as there is on Earth. Looked up the spot price for ore recently?
""Ever" is a long time."
The Periodic Table of Elements has "ever" been the same since the Big Bang.
The Periodic Table of Elements has "ever" been the same since the Big Bang.
Our current understanding is that only hydrogen, helium, and lithium atoms would have been created in the moments after the Big Bang. All the heavier elements didn't appear until the first generation of "metal poor" stars created them during their life-cycles.
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law
Right, so we know that, not from travelling in time, but from "exploring" from our computer chairs right here. No one needs to explore Andromeda to go check if carbon acts the same over there, do they?
I pity you for your lack of imagination. It must be a dreary world knowing what is possible and impossible. It is a good thing that physicists aren't as closed minded as you, as they have come up with ways to accomplish it when we have the will and investment.
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
I can't think of a reason to use RTGs for moon exploration. The weight of solar panels and batteries for a probe would be less than an RTG at this distance from the sun. There is a reason the ISS uses solar for power, and it isn't irrational fear. There is a reason New Horizons used an RTG, it was the better option at that distance from the sun.
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
I pity you for your lack of imagination. It must be a dreary world knowing what is possible and impossible. It is a good thing that physicists aren't as closed minded as you, as they have come up with ways to accomplish it when we have the will and investment.
Without wishing to be on the Space Nutter Troll's side too much, I think it is true that interstellar travel is pretty much impossible barring some FTL method of travel. Not everything is a matter of money and will power.
The only vaguely plausible suggestion is generation ships, and that would simply result in a lot of completely isolated human colonies.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
It's not the amounts, it's the principle. If India can afford a space program and nuclear weapons, they can afford to provide clean water and shelter for their population.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
How apropos that the Americans used plutonium to fly past Pluto!
Inter-stellar distances aren't just a "challenge". They are insurmountable.
Perhaps so, perhaps not. Without a theory that reconciles relativity and QM properly, there's still a lot of mystery left in physics. We'll probably know the answer by the time it takes us to get good at exploring our own system - no need to commit either way this century.
We've explored so very little of our own system. As robotics tech improves, especially autonomous robotics, the commercial possibilities within our own system unfold. Keeping humans healthy in space for extended periods is another problem that is perhaps unsolvable (at least, with reasonable mass limits), but again no need to commit either way this century - the potential for robotics seems vast. If we could only make fuel in orbit - which is mostly a robotics challenge, and hardly an impossible one - everything changes for exploring our system. Everything is fuel-limited right now; remove that limit and there's profit to be had, and basically unbounded resources become available for use here on Earth.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
On the moon you get two weeks of night (unless you are at the poles)
Waging "war on poverty" through cash infusion hasn't worked. Shooting the money into space has a better ROI.
I said it was possible. You say it is impossible, then list two things that would make it possible. Which is it?
FTL is something we are working on, it is possible according to physics, but it is something that is difficult to test as it would require rather large ships being built in space.
Generation ships is what I was referring to, it can be done, it is just expensive.
However, I see no reason at this time for trying to settle other star systems, we are better off with O'Neill Cylinders to relieve population pressure, as we could build large numbers of those from material already in space.
I was simply disagreeing with that it is impossible, not that it is wise.
Inter-stellar distances aren't just a "challenge". They are insurmountable. Completely.
This is wrong, and the space nutter troll knows it. It requires money and will, which we don't currently have, but there are people working towards it still. Asteroid mining is a thing, and it is something that is being worked on by smart and well funded groups. It will eventually happen, and it will likely pay for itself in reduced launch costs for space structures.
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
And how is that relevant? Do you think that every citizen in India is now doing space research? Or do you think the country should suspend all research and any semblance of forward planning and just build toilets? For crying out loud - every time there is an article about India on Slashdot, some one comments about toilets. Post anonymous - your bias is showing.
I missed that the RTG was for a lander, I thought it was for the orbiter which made no sense. I retract my earlier question :)
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
Or do you think the country should suspend all research and any semblance of forward planning and just build toilets?
I certainly do think the basic hygiene and welfare of the average Indian should be improved to approximately mid-twentieth century standards before the nation embarks on any flashy space exploration, but of course that would be much more difficult and involve enfranchising people and stamping out the rampant corruption. This is not the same as developed countries doing space exploration before they've cured cancer, we're talking about people living in chronic, primitive poverty. If you don't like people mentioning toilets, maybe you should build more toilets.
And spare us the race card, it's a sad comment on India that pointing out this obvious fact is even vaguely controversial to some.
If I'm not mistaken, Mars kept those rovers busy for a wee while and I've no doubt there are plenty more interesting astronomical bodies to examine. We have much to learn about our own star system.
..Mullah or Pope, Preacher or Poet, who was it wrote: "Give any one species too much rope and they'll fuck it up"?
If India can afford a space program and nuclear weapons, they can afford to provide clean water and shelter for their population.
If only that were true... It would cost much more to provide food, clothing and shelter to 600 million people than it would take to send a rocket to the moon. Either way, the American aid package India can definitely do without.
Woo woo batshit insane nutcase.
Space development is not going to happen. Ever. There's nothing to explore, much less to develop. What needs "developing" is simple common sense in the brains of deluded Space Nutters who cannot outgrow their silly fantasies.
we need to establish to a certainty whether there are those green skinned babes in skimpy outfits out there or not,
All you need really is a means to propel the sun, gently enough that it won't perturb all the orbits of all the solar system too much. i bet trump could do it if he got elected.
Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
"First of all, there are tons of things to mine in space."
Just as there is on Earth. Looked up the spot price for ore recently?
""Ever" is a long time."
The Periodic Table of Elements has "ever" been the same since the Big Bang.
virtually unlimited source of vacuum in space. would make thermoses more efficient.
Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
It's not the amounts, it's the principle. If India can afford a space program and nuclear weapons, they can afford to provide clean water and shelter for their population.
if the US can afford to land a man on the moon, it can afford to provide medical care for their population.
Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
Waging "war on poverty" through cash infusion hasn't worked. Shooting the money into space has a better ROI.
shooting poor people into space, best ROI of all. power the lunar mission with slave labor.
Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
There goes $1 billion down the drain to satisfy their ego.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/ind...
Casteism
You don't understand anything about economics do you. The underlying reason India is funding its space program is to boost its technology economy. What its doing is essential its future economy, the power to compete is the basis for increasing wealth, which will hopefully ultimately lead to everyone having toilets. India is competing with China.
Try to build your whole economy on building toilets and you will end up in one.
Below the speed of light Special Relativity is one of the most accurate theories in physics - above the speed of light..
This mission is to the inside of a polar crater - the darkness is permanent.
Below the speed of light Special Relativity is one of the most accurate theories in physics - above the speed of light..
One of the objectives may be to look for frozen H2O. If so they may need to venture into permanent shadow for longer than batteries would be feasible. If they don't need to venture far into permanent shadow then certain areas of craters on the moon have far less than 2 weeks of night and they could recharge using solar.
In this case though nuclear or at least nuclear assistance makes far more sense than pure solar. Nuclear RTG's generate waste heat and this helps keep the whole machine warm - important when the Luna night is about 14 days long and temperatures can fall to -170 C.
Below the speed of light Special Relativity is one of the most accurate theories in physics - above the speed of light..