Slashdot Mirror


Microsoft Spending $75M To Boost K-12 CS Education, Put TEALS In 4,000 Schools

theodp writes: An NSF-funded evaluation of the Microsoft TEALS program — which sends volunteer software engineers with no teaching experience into high schools to teach kids and their teachers computer science — isn't scheduled to be completed until 2018. But having declared a K-12 CS education emergency (which it's linked to an H-1B visa emergency), Microsoft is going full speed ahead and spending $75 million to boost computer science in schools. The software giant told USA today that it aims to put TEALS in 700 high schools in the next three years and in 4,000 over the next decade, focusing on urban and rural districts to reach more young women and minorities. "In the U.S. alone, the economy will create 1.4 million new computing jobs by the year 2022," wrote Microsoft President and Code.org Board member Brad Smith. "Yet, less than a quarter of U.S. high schools currently teach computer science. That's not enough and we're working with schools and policy-makers to change that."

48 comments

  1. Um. Peanuts. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The Chicago Public Schools are $500,000,000.00 short this year, yes just this year.

    1. Re:Um. Peanuts. by davester666 · · Score: 1

      $400 billion pension payment...just like US gov't social security, keep punting the ball down the road...

      --
      Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
  2. Why not MBA by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

    I'd like to know what makes programming so good for learning, but not management skills. With management schools, kids could think of new ways to support themselves, or at least be way more prepared to find careers that will take them through life. Learning programming just creates new slaves, while perhaps learning a bit of logic. But the logic they would learn could be expressed and learned in way more efficient ways than actually writing a program. If anything, the logic is obfuscated by putting it in a java format, just write 'if - then - else' or 'while' and put a circle around the works inside.

    The way to attract computer people is to start paying for computer people and demonstrating that it is a worthy career choice where you will be able to keep your job, your knowledge will be valued, and you will be respected. If they keep sending the opposite message, any other effort will fail.

    --
    Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    1. Re:Why not MBA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Learning programming just creates new slaves

      That's the point. That's what they want.

    2. Re:Why not MBA by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

      Agreed, but what I don't understand is, why are the school divisions falling for it? That's who needs to be fighting this battle.

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    3. Re:Why not MBA by Antique+Geekmeister · · Score: 1

      Because they need the funding for equipment, and to free up their very limited budgets for other tasks. US teachers have very limited career choices and are juggling enormous social and bureaucratic demands, in an extremely stressful work environment. It's difficult to refuse such funding and support when they are scrambling to find teachers with computer skills who will, in fact, teach instead of switching to industry computer programming for far more money.

    4. Re:Why not MBA by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

      So we through teachers on the heap with Uber workers and free interns. Instead of making things better, let's take advantage of people who are in a bad situation and capitalize on it.

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    5. Re:Why not MBA by gweihir · · Score: 1

      Well, as most people are idiots (and that unfortunately includes kids), MBAs would be perfect. The MBA is the reliable mark of anybody that cannot understand things but is still willing to attribute numbers and "manage" them. There is really no more reliable way to identify an idiot with a business-leaning.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    6. Re:Why not MBA by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

      Many people, like you, totally hate managers and totally discount any skill relating to management. People once relied on large companies to be someone faithful to them. They wouldn't have to learn business or management skills, because the company could hire them and pay them well for the skill they did have. There were enough 'suckers' to be part of the people organizing for the company to run.

      This balance is almost gone in today's economy. These are the skills that kids need, because unless they know how to start their own thing or how to read where business is headed in the future, they are mostly done. More and more educated people will be working for McDonalds, Walmart, and Uber for bottom dollar and wonder what the heck they need to do to be more successful. The minimum wage discussion and minimum living wage discussions will only become more important, when that is not really how we should be solving the problem at all.

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    7. Re:Why not MBA by Hognoxious · · Score: 0

      So we through teachers on the heap with Uber workers

      How about we start with the one who taught you English?

      They don't even sound the fucking same, you thick ignorant pillock.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    8. Re:Why not MBA by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      Because they need the funding for equipment, and to free up their very limited budgets for other tasks.

      Got to be careful. A lot of these donations are on a matching basis, so they can end up actually pulling money from other areas.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    9. Re:Why not MBA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All that would help prepare people for today's world, true. I suggest that we, instead, prepare them for the future.

      Children should be taught how to fight with steel boomerangs. The assembly of passable clothing from rags would also be useful, as would most of the hunting and shooting crafts. Agriculture could be taught as well, if there's enough time left, but it's of less importance given that finding seeds to grow without the proper corporate created fertilizers might be difficult. Learning to construct smashing melee weapons from the rubble of ruined buildings is far more important.

      As an advanced course, teaching the young how to turn the decapitated skull of an executive into a handsome drinking cup would be an excellent source of motivation, as well as having incredible social benefits as the executive class finally sees all those jogging sessions pay off.

    10. Re:Why not MBA by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

      Admittedly, my hands don't always type what my mind has in it and I don't always preview well enough. If I could have edited it after it was posted I would have, but I couldn't.

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    11. Re:Why not MBA by gweihir · · Score: 1

      And there you are wrong about me, on several counts. But you had to fit my statement somehow into your simplified world-view...

      I have met quite a few good managers. None of them went the MBA-route. In fact, most of the MBA-managers I know are bean-counters that do not know how to do their job and what it actually entails. Still does not make me "hate" them, that is just a transparent attempt by you to slander me.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    12. Re:Why not MBA by gurps_npc · · Score: 1
      Management is not 'thinking of new ways to support themselves." Management is learning how to get other people to obey you after you have been hired as their boss.

      You are talking about entrepreneurship skills, something that is very hard to teach. Most studies show that it has to do more with how you are raised. Recently a study came out stating that those that survived disaster with little personal damage basically become pro-risk and are far more likely to start their own business.

      --
      excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
    13. Re:Why not MBA by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

      Ok fair enough... I mean management and business skills, not MBA.

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    14. Re:Why not MBA by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

      Maybe hard to teach, but becoming more and more necessary just the same.

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    15. Re:Why not MBA by gweihir · · Score: 1

      O.k. then. Actual management and business skills are beneficial to have. For example, I do mostly technical work, but I run frequently into situations where I have to decide whether something is cost-effective or not and that universally has business-aspects. Or I have to take over and drag meetings along because nobody else does and I am the external person that can do this without stepping on people's toes (this has to be done always politely, of course). Or I have to suggest management things to managers, because they seem lost. There are countless other things.

      Engineering and scientific skills are critical for me, but some understanding of management and business provides huge benefits.

      I just do not think that the usual MBA programs give you management and business skills that are worthwhile to have and often teach destructive ones.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    16. Re:Why not MBA by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

      I don't know much about what an MBA 'entails' as opposed to general business skills. MBA is the only degree that I know of that is related to business skills, and I know a lot of technical people get them. I've never looked into getting it myself, or what other better alternatives may be.

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
  3. Tech does not improve grades by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Already plenty of proof in scores that technology does not improve grades and in fact its suggested that it may actually be a distraction. The only reason Apple. Microsoft and Google are trying to push technology in class seems pretty obvious. They want to move product and make more money. Already have seen big districts like Los Angeles drop iPads for a lack of any tangible evidence the cost justifies the benefits.

  4. OK, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... do they run Linux? Hah!

    Wait... what? They do? 8-[

  5. And by emergency they mean by JeffOwl · · Score: 1

    Salaries are too high so they need to increase competition for available jobs to drive the price down.

  6. Really? I mean... by Lord+Duran · · Score: 2

    I've heard of this time and time again. Is there any evidence that software engineers are good teachers? I mean, the challenge in K-12 is getting control of the students, not the teaching material (which is low level and entirely uninteresting).

    1. Re:Really? I mean... by gweihir · · Score: 2

      Most people are not good teachers. Those that are have learned how to be over a long time and brought specific talent to the table in the first place. There is no reason to believe software engineers can do any better. But hey, it is Microsoft. Doing things badly is what they excel at.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    2. Re:Really? I mean... by dougg76 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      We live near MS land and my son just finished a course where they sent a few programmers from MS to teach the course. While they did seem like capable programmers, they were not very good teachers. I think only 20% or so of the people who started the class finished. I tried to make my son drop the class because it was taking so much time from other classes that it was negatively impacting his grades. Interestingly enough, he did pass the AP exam, but I mark that more up to his participation in the First Robotics program and his actual enjoyment of making things. While he had a lot of fun coding, the overall experience left him with a bad taste in his mouth and he does not want to program anything again (did not want this). In some ways this makes me happy because he wants to go into mechanical engineering and I don't want him to get distracted by the software industries shinies.

      --
      I laugh at inappropriate times.
    3. Re:Really? I mean... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is there any evidence that software engineers are good teachers?

      Software engineering is hard. Therefore, it is a superset of all things that aren't hard, like poetry and history and all that shit.

    4. Re:Really? I mean... by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 3, Funny

      We live near MS land and my son just finished a course where they sent a few programmers from MS to teach the course. While they did seem like capable programmers, they were not very good teachers.

      THIS!

      I rememberd my initial foray into Linux, I'd go online with a question, and the answer always came back:

      "Oh, that's simple! All you have to do is" - and then immediately launched into a dissertation that had my head spinning in 5 seconds or less.

      And I figured out pretty quickly that the person answering was trying to answer my question, but also trying to impress me with how smart he was. As well, a lot of things he took for granted that everyone knew.

      And that is bad teaching. A teacher has to break things down, and bring them to the level of the person being taught. And most software engineers I know can't do that. Because they are pretty darn smart - just ask them.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    5. Re:Really? I mean... by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      Is there any evidence that software engineers are good teachers?

      Software engineering is hard. Therefore, it is a superset of all things that aren't hard, like poetry and history and all that shit.

      Not at all. The ability to teach depends on the person, not what they do. A lot of SW engineers haven't ever tried to teach, so who knows. But it is definitely a different skill set.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    6. Re:Really? I mean... by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      Actually, $MySubject is hard.

      Accounting? Just adding numbers up.
      Programming? Just typing (usually with too many semicolons)
      Law? Just standing up and talking.
      Medicine? They just prod you a bit and try some pills, and if those don't work they try some other one.
      Teaching? Same as law, except they believe what they're saying more than half the time.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  7. A whole 75 million? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That's barely enough for a single school district.

  8. What's Good for Microsoft is Good for K-12 Schools by theodp · · Score: 2

    Microsoft's announcement coincidentally came a day after New York City announced an $81M public-private K-12 CS mandate, which prompted Microsoft's Smith to join fellow FWD.us PAC backers Ron Conway and Fred Wilson, as well other execs from Google, Facebook, and Goldman Sachs, to explain to the masses "Why Computer Science for All is Good for All" in An Open Letter from the Nation's Tech and Business Leaders. Making an argument worthy of a tantrum-throwing toddler, the execs exclaimed in a pull-quote, "We need talent, we need it now, and we simply cannot find enough."

  9. It's sad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That supposed leaders in the field don't differentiate between computer science and computer programming.
    They are totally different concepts and require different knowledge and skill sets.
    It's like saying "We're going to learn architecture today, here's a pile of two by fours, lets frame a house."

  10. Experienced this long ago... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I took computer science in my high school the first year it was available; it was taught by a real programmer with real job experience programming. I don't think he had much teaching experience, but the class was *excellent*. There wasn't any bullshit, it was "this is how to think about these problems" type learning. This program certainly has potential.

    1. Re:Experienced this long ago... by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

      The class was excellent because you obviously had a natural interest or ability. From the fact that you said 'I took' I am reading in that this was an optional class. Teaching a class of kids who have opted into the class is very different from teaching a class of kids whom mostly wouldn't be there if they had a choice. This is the value of real teaching skills in my mind.

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
  11. meanwhile, in the real world ... by swell · · Score: 3, Informative

    Thousands are being laid off at HP, Qualcomm and others.
    Most have little hope of an equivalent job.
    So much for the urgent need for programmers.

    --
    ...omphaloskepsis often...
    1. Re:meanwhile, in the real world ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This was explained in a previous article. The reason for this is not that there is a urgent need, it's that there are not enough qualified CS students to take jobs at wages low enough for their liking. It's not how economics works, you pay more for a job and people will learn what is needed. What they want is to get CS engineers at minimum wage. Until CS are willing to work for the wages they want us to work for then there will be an CS emergency.

      Trust me, I applied at Microsoft, if there really was an emergency I'd have a job there, I have a bachelors in CS, so what is the holdup? The nature of software engineers is that we have to be rapidly adaptable, capable of learning new software and languages quickly. This means that in an emergency you can pick up a developer at almost any level and easily train them up to where you need them within a few months to a year. So if there is an emergency why are only about half of CS graduates with jobs in the field? The only logical conclusion that can be drawn is that the emergency is artificial. Most of the jobs are going to H1B's, until they can drive the expected wage down to a fraction of what it currently is. Which in many areas is still rather low. Were talking less than 50k a year, in some areas less than 35k. To translate that into hourly wages were talking $24.03 per hour, and $16.82 per hour respectively, note this assumes that they are working full time 40 hour jobs per week, which is rare. These jobs are salary which means that if you end up working 60 hours a week then you still get paid the same. Many of these companies expect you to put in this many hours, or guess what you don't keep the job. Just to clarify 50k at 60 hours a week comes out to $16.02 per hour, and if you only have 35k per year then your looking at 11.21 per hour. This is a dismal rate for such high expectations, and soon to be just above minimum wage in many areas, and eventually nationally.
      If there were an emergency you would expect to see these wages much higher. This is how economics work, when supply is low and demand is high you have to pay more for the product. The only reason to declare an emergency in this kind of thing is to attempt to lower the wages. Which is **** ****. These people are business people, they know what they are doing. Many people don't even know how to calculate their yearly earnings, they have to look at their pay stubs to get this number. Now say you hire one of these barely skilled CS students, sure their work is going to be crap, but the fact that you can hire them cheaply will drive down costs overall. This means that the truly skilled will still have to work for next to nothing, degrees will mean little, software engineers will be expected to pull additional hours, etc... Now I am all for introducing CS into schools, but the motive for this is ****.

      Conclusion, there is no emergency. If there was an emergency then, many like me would have a job at Microsoft, making good wages.

  12. What could possibly go wrong? by arielCo · · Score: 3, Insightful

    volunteer software engineers with no teaching experience into high schools to teach kids and their teachers computer science

    It's like they're trying to put kids off CS before they even have to choose.

    --
    This post contains no rudeness or derision of any kind. All arguments are friendly. Terms and exclusions may apply.
  13. MS spends $75M to coax CS education. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    In an expensive move MS invests $75M to try to steer CS education toward propitiatory closed source environment.

  14. Tech For America! Laid off tech workers teaching! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What we need is Tech For America, where the army of laid off American tech workers go into schools and teach computer science.

  15. Re: Tech For America! Laid off tech workers teachi by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I like the title 'Tech For America', but if this is the only sponsor what we are going to have is a bunch of vendor biased programmers who eventual will be unemployed because they keep outsourcing the jobs. Like how they are outsourcing these TEALS teaching jobs. People from all over the world come to the U.S. to attend the best universities, they don't stay, they return back to their countries. We export our education, but oh no we have a bunch of guys waving their certs. Wait I like certs, but it won't cut the mustard, it's a prerequisite. Anyone feel left out, or is it just me.

  16. The Microsoft slashdot .. by nickweller · · Score: 1

    “Mind Control: To control mental output you have to control mental input. Take control of the channels by which developers receive information, then they can only think about the things you tell them. Thus, you control mindshare!” ref

  17. Re:Stupid American Children by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

    Need help. Any India child of four can program a computer. Stupid American child of four can do what? Nothing. That is what.

    Is this your Brahmin Children or the ones who have to look foward to a job market that consists of cleaning your sewers?

    --
    The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
  18. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  19. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  20. mah by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hope the good PR they get is worth the money thrown down the drain. Maybe get a few more kinds interested in CS.

  21. Good on you, Microsoft! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Over the years it's been a long lost endeavor to bolster computer education in schools. Being a costly affair, schools opt to athletics and arts. Computers are not cheap, but computers encompass a vast majority of all the other subjects a student would learn in school. It's about time they learn about the tool they in turn learn on. Good job, Microsoft...... first Windows 10 and now investing in our future!