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Google As Alphabet Subsidiary Drops "Don't Be Evil"

CNet, The Verge, and many other outlets are reporting that with the official transition of Google (as overarching company) to Google, a subsidiary of Alphabet, Google's made another change that's caught a lot of people's attention: the company has swapped out their famous motto "Don't be evil" for one with a slightly different ring: "Do the right thing." Doing the right thing sounds like a nice thing to aspire to, but doesn't seem quite as exciting.

247 comments

  1. Paved with good intentions... by Mr+Z · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Which road was that again?

    1. Re:Paved with good intentions... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Torturing a child can be the right thing to do under certain circumstances; but it is ALWAYS an evil thing to do.

    2. Re:Paved with good intentions... by fyngyrz · · Score: 1

      ok, what circumstances are... "certain", in your view? Honestly curious. Can't think of any, myself, and I consider myself both open-minded and a creative thinker. Please elaborate.

      --
      I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
    3. Re:Paved with good intentions... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Another thing you have to remember. "Do the right thing"... for who? your consumers, your investors, NSA? You can do the right thing for many different people and still be completely evil. For instance a Lawyer who knows his client is a psychopathic killer is still "Doing the right thing" by trying to get him free. I think I prefer "Don't be evil"

    4. Re:Paved with good intentions... by dgatwood · · Score: 1

      A computer system detects the delivery of large quantities of bomb-making materials to an address in the suburbs. You arrest the parents, and they seem completely baffled. You get a warrant and search their computers, only to find that their 13-year-old son has been in communication with Al Qaeda. You know that somewhere in the city, there is probably a bomb, and the only lead is a kid. The kid is uncooperative, and you realize that if you do not get the kid to spill his guts, thousands of people will die.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    5. Re:Paved with good intentions... by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 2

      ok, what circumstances are... "certain", in your view? Honestly curious. Can't think of any, myself, and I consider myself both open-minded and a creative thinker. Please elaborate.

      Hmmm, what if the child was really a 1000-year old Reptilian from Jupiter who is hatching a Master Illuminati Plan to blow up the Earth and enslave all the survivors? It's a stretch, I'll admit, but what if? CHECKMATE, RATIONAL PERSON!

      (Note for the humor impaired: Reptilians actually come from Saturn; I know that and was just trying to throw the NSA trackers off by citing slightly erroneous data. Carry on, nothing to see here, sharks with laser beams, in Russia something something, etc etc.)

      --
      Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    6. Re:Paved with good intentions... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      (Note for the humor impaired: Reptilians actually come from Saturn; I know that and was just trying to throw the NSA trackers off by citing slightly erroneous data. Carry on, nothing to see here, sharks with laser beams, in Russia something something, etc etc.)

      That is obvious. Jupiter has cyborgs and Venus has organic monstrosities. Forget Mercury, as it is just a mass of grey goo trying to imitate life in the most primal sense. Pluto is a wasteland after that last fight against a rogue AI. If Mars wasn't constantly a war zone where governments from all over the system send soldiers to fight and kids to mass proxy-battlegrounds for training, it might be the most sensible place to live.

    7. Re:Paved with good intentions... by nmb3000 · · Score: 2

      The only thing missing from your post was a prefix of "Previously on 24..." and a shot of Jack Bauer looking pensive :)

      --
      "What do you despise? By this are you truly known." --Princess Irulan, Manual of Muad'Dib
      /)
    8. Re: Paved with good intentions... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I notice you subtly passed-over mentioning Uranus. I know that was intentional: your kind always pretends to "forget" Uranus, but everyone who knows about Uranus remembers Uranus, and we notice when you passover Uranus. You think you'll get away with it, but we know, and we're watching you and we're watching Uranus.

    9. Re:Paved with good intentions... by BlackHawk-666 · · Score: 1

      ...or, you could just read those communications with Al'qaeda that you say are still on that computer. In fact, you most likely had, or you wouldn't be doing a home invasion on the American dream. And let's face it, if the bomb isn't in the place it was constructed, then it's 99% likely it's already been exploded at it's target location because real life isn't written by script writers trying to pad out a 42 minute long TV episode.

      There's an old philosophy that those who wrestle with demons, become demons. The moment you cross the line and start torturing people you've become every bit as reprehensible as the people you hate.

      --
      All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.
    10. Re: Paved with good intentions... by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      I notice you subtly passed-over mentioning Uranus. I know that was intentional: your kind always pretends to "forget" Uranus, but everyone who knows about Uranus remembers Uranus, and we notice when you passover Uranus. You think you'll get away with it, but we know, and we're watching you and we're watching Uranus.

      Why do ACs always focus on Uranus? In every goddamned discussion about planets, it's always ACs that have to bring it up. Can't talk about Saturn or Pluto. Neptune is always left in the lurch.

      Assholes.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    11. Re:Paved with good intentions... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The "right thing" from the prospect of a devil.

    12. Re:Paved with good intentions... by russotto · · Score: 1

      A computer system detects the delivery of large quantities of bomb-making materials to an address in the suburbs. You arrest the parents, and they seem completely baffled. You get a warrant and search their computers, only to find that their 13-year-old son has been in communication with Al Qaeda. You know that somewhere in the city, there is probably a bomb, and the only lead is a kid. The kid is uncooperative, and you realize that if you do not get the kid to spill his guts, thousands of people will die.

      Oh, sorry about that, I guess I shouldn't have popped the kid in the mouth several sentences ago. It'll be hard to understand him when the torturers break him. They'll just have to leave one of his fingers so he can point to a place on the map or something.

    13. Re:Paved with good intentions... by geekmux · · Score: 2

      ok, what circumstances are... "certain", in your view? Honestly curious. Can't think of any, myself, and I consider myself both open-minded and a creative thinker. Please elaborate.

      This may be an extreme example, so let me cite a more accurate one with this new loophole Google is now using as their new motto. Members of ISIS likely do not consider themselves "evil". In their minds, they're out to "do the right thing". See how the difference can be applied and justified, even in the face of something so blatantly evil as ISIS?

      Anything can be justified as the "right" thing given a sick enough mind. That said, Google is a publicly traded US corporation. Their definition of "right" will always include the priority of revenue, which is not only right for a capitalist organization, it's also a mandatory survival tactic.

    14. Re:Paved with good intentions... by dgatwood · · Score: 1

      ...or, you could just read those communications with Al'qaeda that you say are still on that computer. In fact, you most likely had, or you wouldn't be doing a home invasion on the American dream. And let's face it, if the bomb isn't in the place it was constructed, then it's 99% likely it's already been exploded at it's target location because real life isn't written by script writers trying to pad out a 42 minute long TV episode.

      You're assuming that the actual communications were on the computer, rather than merely evidence that communication occurred (e.g. URLs of a known Al Qaeda chat room in the web browser's history). I was assuming the opposite. :-)

      And yes, it's a big stretch—the sort of thing that makes for good TV, but that isn't very likely to happen IRL.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    15. Re:Paved with good intentions... by Sabriel · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Odds the 13-year-old has been told where the bomb has been planted: low.
      Odds the 13-year-old will make up something even remotely believable just to make the torturing stop: not low.
      Odds the 13-year-old has been told, if at all, where the enemy wants you to believe the bomb has been planted: not low.
      Odds the parents and neighbours of the 13-year-old didn't notice "large quantities" of bomb-making material being delivered: not insignificant.

      Odds you will fuck up by torturing a 13-year-old to no avail and create a perception that the US government finds torturing children acceptable in the eyes of its citizens, its allies and its enemies: high.

      Odds that even if the torture "works", you have created a perception that the US government finds torturing children acceptable in the eyes of its citizens, its allies and its enemies: high.

      If I was your CO and you did this, even if you succeeded: arrest you and throw the entire damn book at you, because you just made that kid a martyr. AQ is not an existential threat to the nation, but agents of the state endorsing or carrying out the torture of minors? Are.

    16. Re:Paved with good intentions... by Sabriel · · Score: 1

      Sorry, "didn't notice" should be "did notice".

    17. Re:Paved with good intentions... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Google has succumbed to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V... with Sundar Pichai as its CEO

    18. Re: Paved with good intentions... by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      Your fantasy would still not be appropriate even if it was true. If you need the kid to talk the last thing you should do is torture him. Torture will not make him talk, it will make him lie and it will affirm his bad views so certainly that he will grow up to be a suicide bomber or worse.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    19. Re:Paved with good intentions... by dgatwood · · Score: 1

      Probably true. On the flip side, if you do nothing, you can be certain that a large number of people will die, and that threat is immediate. Which is worse? Hurting a kid or standing by and watching thousands of people die? I would tend to argue that the latter is far worse. But it should be a difficult decision for anyone with a conscience, because hurting a kid is wrong; it just might be less wrong than the only alternatives available.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

  2. Until someone decides by Stonent1 · · Score: 5, Funny

    That being evil is the right thing to do. You know, ends justify the means and all that jazz...

    1. Re:Until someone decides by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      ...That being evil is the right thing to do.

      What they are really saying is, *Do it right the first time*

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    2. Re:Until someone decides by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 2

      The new motto should be, "Kneel Before Zod!"

      --
      Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    3. Re: Until someone decides by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Never let your sense of morals get in the way of doing what's right." ~Asimov

    4. Re:Until someone decides by mwvdlee · · Score: 1

      It's the right thing to do for more profit.

      --
      Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
  3. GoogleIdeas by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Considering what they've been up to with GoogleIdeas featuring online harassers to help them strategize how to deal with online harassers, this was an obvious next move.

  4. What if the right thing to do is evil? by ZipK · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I guess if you've dropped "don't be evil" and adopted "do the right thing," the answer is pretty clear.

    1. Re:What if the right thing to do is evil? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The bigger question is that the statement can be taken in different directions, compared to a simple "Don't Be Evil"

      "Do the right thing (for everyone)"

      "Do the right thing (for the company)"

      When CEOs push their company into anti-competitive practices, price fixing, etc, they're doing it to massively increase profits. If they get caught doing it eventually and are made to pay a 5 million dollar fee but have since made an extra 10 billion due to the scheme, by all accounts they've done "the right thing" for the company.

    2. Re:What if the right thing to do is evil? by aaron4801 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The Right Thing for civilization isn't usually evil. The Right Thing for shareholders often is.

    3. Re:What if the right thing to do is evil? by bentcd · · Score: 1

      Why don't they just go that extra mile and make it "for the greater good"?

      --
      sigs are hazardous to your health
  5. "Do the right thing...." by Gaygirlie · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "....for the stockholders' wallets."

    I know I won't be holding my breath here!

    1. Re:"Do the right thing...." by NewtonsLaw · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You've nailed it. "Do the right thing" is highly ambiguous when compared to their previous motto.

      Clearly they want the wiggle-room because doing "evil" can sometimes be highly profitable.

    2. Re:"Do the right thing...." by wonkey_monkey · · Score: 1

      "Do the right thing" is highly ambiguous

      As opposed to the standard internationally-agreed and completely unambiguous defintion of "evil" that everyone always agrees on...

      --
      systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
    3. Re:"Do the right thing...." by WolfWithoutAClause · · Score: 1

      At least morality is in the room though; with 'do the right thing', it might as well just be for the shareholder's wallets; and that's not morality, that's finance.

      --

      -WolfWithoutAClause

      "Gravity is only a theory, not a fact!"
    4. Re:"Do the right thing...." by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      I don't see it as any different. People have been truly distorting the word evil for the past few years to mean "anything I don't like about what they are currently doing". The word had completely lost its meanings with regular threads comparing completely benign actions to the reign of Hitler.

      The previous slogan was just as ambiguous and lacked just as much meaning which should come as a surprise when using so few words.

    5. Re:"Do the right thing...." by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Don't be evil could apply just as well to shareholders. It also lacks definition. Google was never evil. I never saw a Google employee actively punch babies out of spite. But Google was always evil because ... errm ... advertising and tracking and stuff.
      The original slogan lost all meaning.

    6. Re:"Do the right thing...." by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do the right thing is unambiguous. Not that I trust Google 100%, but it's hardly worse than don't be evil. In fact, it is better. Will it offer more wiggle room for a corporation? Maybe.

      But which saying would you rather a parent tell a kid? Don't do evil, or, Do the Right thing.

      Either saying involves values held by the individual and the society. Either can be argued against. One might argue just creating a corporation is evil.

    7. Re:"Do the right thing...." by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No it isn't. "Don't be evil" doesn't mean "Be good". Neutral is neither good nor evil. It also allows one to DO evil things if the long-term consequences mean that it isn't BEING evil. People have long confused the two.

    8. Re:"Do the right thing...." by geekmux · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You've nailed it. "Do the right thing" is highly ambiguous when compared to their previous motto.

      Clearly they want the wiggle-room because doing "evil" can sometimes be highly profitable.

      Wiggle room? That's a laugh.

      Tell me, who exactly are the ignorant fools on this planet who believe that Google to date has lived up to any motto as they thrive very well in the unethical and immoral world of capitalism?

      Point here is I see no reason to bullshit customers with pointless mottos or trying to claim they need "wiggle room" when their revenue-generating priorities will guarantee they won't care enough to follow them, especially when answering to shareholders who care about one fucking thing, and that one thing sure as hell ain't being right.

    9. Re:"Do the right thing...." by martin-boundary · · Score: 1

      Tell me, who exactly are the ignorant fools on this planet who believe that Google to date has lived up to any motto as they thrive very well in the unethical and immoral world of capitalism?

      Easy. All the google fanbois who read and comment on slashdot, of which there are a lot but not as many as a few years ago. You can identify them easily, they'll defend anything google does by claiming "it's free, if you don't like it don't use it". (*)

      We need a name for these guys, googlebois? goobois? goobs? Something catchy, anyway.

      (*) which misses the point, Google being a spying outfit (**), even if you refuse to have anything to do with them they'll hoover up direct and indirect information about you on their systems, and you'll be affected by their whims.

      (**) They spy on you, buddy, not on the Chinese

    10. Re:"Do the right thing...." by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I skimmed this fast and it made me giggle, though I wouldn't be surprised if Google actually has a 'Wiggle Room' somewhere on its campus.

  6. Googlers generally apply those words .. by nickweller · · Score: 1

    “Don’t be evil.” Googlers generally apply those words to how we serve our users. But “Don’t be evil” is much more than that. Yes, it’s about providing our users unbiased access to information, focusing on their needs and giving them the best products and services that we can. But it’s also about doing the right thing more generally – following the law, acting honorably and treating each other with respect ref.

    1. Re:Googlers generally apply those words .. by Opportunist · · Score: 3, Insightful

      What now, do the right thing or follow the law? C'mon, make a decision, you can't have your cake and eat it too.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    2. Re:Googlers generally apply those words .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Volkswagen management could, with a straight face, conclude that the company was Doing the Right Thing by providing quality products at affordable prices. But they'd be hard pressed to say that they (as a company) Did No Evil when they cheated the emissions tests.

      That's the distinction.

    3. Re:Googlers generally apply those words .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is Google in China? Not all laws are followed.

    4. Re:Googlers generally apply those words .. by scsirob · · Score: 1

      Most wars have started from disagreement about what the right thing was..

      --
      To Terminate, or not to Terminate, that's the question - SCSIROB
    5. Re:Googlers generally apply those words .. by Tokolosh · · Score: 1

      By "users" you mean advertisers - providing them with information about your "products" (me)?

      --
      Prove anything by multiplying Huge Number times Tiny Number
    6. Re:Googlers generally apply those words .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is why I never play lawful good characters.

  7. I can understand the change in motto by QuietLagoon · · Score: 2

    While I appreciated the sentiment behind "don't be evil", I was surprised that a company had the word "evil" in its motto, regardless of the context.

    1. Re:I can understand the change in motto by IamTheRealMike · · Score: 1

      It dates from the really early days when Google was basically just a bunch of engineers doing R&D. It was cutesy, the brand they went for was cutesy, it fitted.

      The problem with it IMO is that, basically, too many people can't handle it. "Evil" is a really high bar. It's a word that smells objective. But not many business activities really qualify for such a strong word. Drone striking a wedding is evil. When Microsoft tried to take over and then kill off the web (or rather, progress in the web) because they wanted everyone to write Windows apps instead of using open infrastructure, that was roaming around in the general area, maybe, if we want to be hyperbolic. Though it's debatable.

      Changing the colour scheme in Gmail is clearly not evil. Attempting to integrate social features of products together is not evil, even if you didn't like it. But unfortunately as Google got big enough it reached the point where basically any change resulted in this motto being thrown back in their face. So it ended up being meaningless. Someone saying "don't be evil" just became some sort of trite cliche. Worse, internally some of its own employees would tend to describe any action they didn't like as "evil" which of course wasn't great for team building and morale (I used to work there so I saw this problem in action many times).

      I'm not surprised they have eventually changed it, although even that change will itself be described as evil in a sort of implosion of recursive irony. "Do the right thing" might seem watered down, but by taking out the cartoon emotive character assassination words, it sets a probably more realistic goal by accepting that "the right thing" is inherently subjective and debatable.

  8. Altavista by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I smell Altavista coming back on-line. I remember the day when the telephone company tried to kill me....

  9. Screw our products (that's you!) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    they've swapped out their famous motto "Don't be evil" for one with a slightly different ring: "Do the right thing."

    (... for the company.)

  10. Well, come on by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It's been obvious for several years they haven't been using "don't be evil" as any sort of guiding principle anyway. Then and now, it's just a motto - useful for PR purposes but not much else.

    --
    #DeleteChrome
  11. Do the right thing... by Ecuador · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Do the right thing... for whom? Without a specifier it does not tell us anything. It is definitely not the same as "don't be evil", although we've figured out that Google has not followed that mantra for a while now (not at Apple levels yet!).

    --
    Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. Polar Scope Align for iOS
    1. Re:Do the right thing... by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 1

      Do the right thing... for whom?

      Spike Lee, of course.

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    2. Re:Do the right thing... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      For the NSA?...

    3. Re:Do the right thing... by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Really? Why? Please define "evil" with a clear line. I want to know exactly what threshold crossed that puts Google on the same arbitrary side of the evil / not evil line as Stalin.

  12. "Do the right thing." by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They missed out a bit.

    "Do the right thing. ???? Profit!"

  13. Have they not been watching the new Heroes series? by bfwebster · · Score: 2

    In the new NBC series "Heroes Reborn", the big bad corporation, Renautas, is in effect torturing an "evo" (a person with powers) to use her powers to enable a system that can locate all other evos on Earth, so that they can be rounded up. Their corporate motto? "Doing good is good business."

    --
    Bruce F. Webster (brucefwebster.com)
  14. Google is keeping "don't be evil" by loosescrews · · Score: 5, Informative
    From TFA:

    Even though Google is underneath Alphabet, its own, more specific code of conduct remains largely the same, and it retains the "don't be evil" motto. And since most of Alphabet's employees work at Google, that means "don't be evil" is still very much alive and well in Mountain View.

    It is just Alphabet that is dropping it.

    1. Re:Google is keeping "don't be evil" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      What part of the alphabet? The letters N, S, and A? Or C, I, and A? Or is that F, B, I, D, E, A?

    2. Re:Google is keeping "don't be evil" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Oh, so now we get two lies for the price of one?

    3. Re: Google is keeping "don't be evil" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The part of Alphabet which is in capitals, which distinguishes it as a proper noun.

      Idiot.

    4. Re:Google is keeping "don't be evil" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      thats hilarious

    5. Re:Google is keeping "don't be evil" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Let Alphabet develop all software, and Google just sub-contract them.
      Google isn't doing any evil, just asking code with specs.

      It's just Alphabet that is putting malicious code in.

      cap: misusing
      How fitting.

  15. They're the same.. by epyT-R · · Score: 2

    Both are based on subjectivity. What is evil to some is good to others, what is right to some is wrong to others, etc. Google's behavior to date vs the criticisms it has received is evidence of this.

    1. Re:They're the same.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Soon, Google Atomics near you! The first, fully portable tactical nuclear device for the exquisite destruction of your own, or your least favorite neighborhood down town. See our dynamic presentation at the next Google I=O!

    2. Re:They're the same.. by thunderclap · · Score: 1

      Besides, I want them to be evil towards Hollywood. I want them to be evil towards copyright. They have got 20 yrs because they have the same issues as IBM and Microsoft has by them there will be another company to take their place.

    3. Re:They're the same.. by phantomfive · · Score: 4, Informative

      Which is why Google has no problem collecting your information, and advertising to you based on that.
      They don't consider that evil.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    4. Re:They're the same.. by WolfWithoutAClause · · Score: 1

      They are NOT the same thing.

      With do the right thing, you're supposed to seek out 'goodness', but with 'don't be evil' you're supposed to avoid badness.

      Although avoiding badness sounds weak, it's more in compatible with western values; western societies have a list of things you're not supposed to do.

      To do the 'right' thing, is more of a totalitarian position.

      --

      -WolfWithoutAClause

      "Gravity is only a theory, not a fact!"
    5. Re: They're the same.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They played us like a damn fiddle!

    6. Re:They're the same.. by Earthquake+Retrofit · · Score: 1

      Good and evil changes over time and from place to place. What never changes? Darn little comes to mind. Maybe honesty and kindness? Shouldn't we focus on that?

      --
      Fifty years of Yippie! 1968-2018
    7. Re:They're the same.. by epyT-R · · Score: 2

      They're only evil towards copyright because it resists their business model of information aggregation, and they are evil towards ibm because ibm competes with them. None of this has to do with giving a damn about doing the right thing (whatever that is).

    8. Re:They're the same.. by epyT-R · · Score: 1

      Honesty would be refreshing in today's age of political correctness and doublespeak. As far as kindness goes, sure, as long as it's not mandated. Once it's mandated, it becomes shallow and meaningless.

    9. Re:They're the same.. by epyT-R · · Score: 1

      I don't buy that. Any place 'don't be evil' fits, 'do the right thing' fits as well, and both are subjective, dangerously so.

    10. Re:They're the same.. by WolfWithoutAClause · · Score: 1

      We don't live in a binary world.

      If we did, you would be right though.

      But we don't.

      --

      -WolfWithoutAClause

      "Gravity is only a theory, not a fact!"
    11. Re:They're the same.. by epyT-R · · Score: 1

      Apparently, we also live in a world where people like to imply distinctions where none exist. Words have definitions for a reason.

    12. Re:They're the same.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm 100% with you. "Evil" and "Good" are definitely subjective.

  16. Wide open to interpretation by kheldan · · Score: 1

    "Do the right thing" according to whose standard of ethics and morals? If as an example, a society believes that the weak should die 'for the greater good', and that 'might makes right', and that 'stealing is OK so long as you don't get caught', then "Do the right thing" means something entirely different than it would in a society where the opposites are true. My point being: "Do the right thing" is extremely vague to the point of being meaningless -- unless you back those four words up with specifications of what it means to you .

    --
    Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
    1. Re:Wide open to interpretation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The same can be said of "Don't be evil".

    2. Re:Wide open to interpretation by robi5 · · Score: 1

      This. All the squarehead engineers here start to speculate and reason, and the intern who probably suggested that the negatively formed sentence be recast as a positive, 'actionable' sentence is having lots of giggles as people seek 'meaning' to it. It's just a fscking motto.

  17. Brilliant! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This enables Google to do the right thing for itself, even if the right thing is evil. Well played, Google, as always.

  18. Has a nice Machiavellian ring to it, don't you thi by macraig · · Score: 2

    ... has swapped out their famous motto "Don't be evil" for one with a slightly different ring: "Do the right thing."

    So now, in true Machiavellian true-believer fashion, they can comfortably be evil as long as they're being evil to do the Right(eous) Thing... whatever that is.

  19. Do the right thing... by natex84 · · Score: 1

    ... for who?

  20. Millennials and "codes of conduct". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Can anyone explain to me why Millennials are so gung-ho about "codes of conduct", and why they're so hypocritical about them?

    To see what I'm talking about, read these comments about the creation of an open source code of conduct template.

    It's unbelievable. A number of the participants in that discussion claim to be against discrimination, yet they're actively pushing for it to be deemed completely acceptable to discriminate against people who happened to have been born with white skin and a penis!

    To many Millennials, a "code of conduct" isn't something to help keep social interaction civil. It's actually a weapon that they use against those whom they dislike.

    1. Re:Millennials and "codes of conduct". by fyngyrz · · Score: 4, Insightful

      To many Millennials, a "code of conduct" isn't something to help keep social interaction civil. It's actually a weapon that they use against those whom they dislike.

      Power corrupts. It's always been true, and it's still true. That's why a focus on personal and consensual choice, "your right to swing stops at my face", and liberty in general is needed to keep the error rate down to a dull roar -- just about every committee or action of a legislature is an act of exerting power. Far too often, that power is inappropriately construed, far too often that power is inappropriately applied. Classing is another wielding of power that consistently proves to be used as a means of harm and revenge. I can think of numerous examples in the technical realm, from ridiculous and irrelevant "certifications" to college degree requirements regardless of your knowledge and experience, to portions of the GPL.

      As for millennials, this didn't start with them, not even close. As a 60-year old fellow, I could go on for pages with accurate stories about social codes of conduct that were (and in many cases still are) used as attempts to bludgeon people into compliance with everything from superstition (by which I primarily mean various aspects of religion), to the red scare, to the 'Murica mindset, to the ridiculously exaggerated "sex trafficking" nonsense, to drug use and the drug war, slut shaming, gangsterism, terrorism, and so on. Seems to me that you're probably just finding the millennials more annoying because for whatever reason, their behavior has clashed with your outlook -- which is not to say anyone is right or wrong, just that there's an up-front conflict.

      --
      I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
    2. Re:Millennials and "codes of conduct". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because they are entitled children.

    3. Re:Millennials and "codes of conduct". by mrbester · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Jesus fucking Christ that thread was painful to read.

      That so many are so hell bent on pushing their agenda of having the right to be offended and the power to decry / denounce / ban anyone they don't like for whatever reason (usually based on their own flawed perception of a utopia where everybody thinks exactly like they do) is pitiful.

      Has a name been attributed (a la Godwin) to the death of a thread when someone writes "Check your privilege"? Because apart from "Go fuck yourself" there isn't any response to it.

      --
      "Wait. Something's happening. It's opening up! My God, it's full of apricots!"
    4. Re:Millennials and "codes of conduct". by Intrepid+imaginaut · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You can change your behaviour. You can change your opinion. You can even change your religion. You can't change the colour of your skin or whether or not you were born with nuts, drastic surgery excluded. That's why making racism and sexism of any sort acceptable, in particular under the flag of some warped version of "justice" is particularly dangerous. Because once it becomes acceptable to hate there is no final destination, it keeps on rolling until someone rolls it back, and no matter which direction the pendulum swings the situation is usually worse than it was to begin with. That's the difference.

      There's a good reason collective punishment is usually viewed as a war crime. If you go down that road you end up asking why people with white skin, English, Irish, French, American, Polish, Russian, all of them aren't generally being punished for the crimes of the Nazis generations later, or even just Germans. Or why stop there, maybe Mongolia owes Iran reparations for the actions of Genghis Khan. Islamic states should pay for the conquest of Spain perhaps?

      Some peoples' attitudes do need to change but what the "millennials", which is to say that subset of American youth who've been fed various offcolour sociological activist theories - not an entire generation by a long shot - need to understand is that if you rope in everyone as guilty you end up creating a reaction and creating problems which never needed to exist in the first place.

    5. Re:Millennials and "codes of conduct". by TWX · · Score: 1

      To many Millennials, a "code of conduct" isn't something to help keep social interaction civil. It's actually a weapon that they use against those whom they dislike.

      Seems to me that you're probably just finding the millennials more annoying because for whatever reason, their behavior has clashed with your outlook -- which is not to say anyone is right or wrong, just that there's an up-front conflict.

      I have a feeling that the annoyance felt by the existing generations when they view the generations below them stems from those younger generations being not part of the established mindset of those of the older generation. David Bowie's song, "Changes," and the line, "And these children that you spit on, as they try to change their worlds, are immune to your consultations; they're quite aware of what they're going through." comes to mind. To each of us when we're the budding generation, the issues of our generation, our learned way of doing things, the problems and solutions that we and our peers have had to deal with, are all essentially established to us, and generally the generations above us, from our perspective, don't have these problems anymore. The younger generations that come up below us are not part of our established world-view, so sometimes that causes annoyance. Sometimes we get annoyed by their now experiencing the problems that we experienced and found our solutions to. Their habits, different than ours, annoy us as much as our habits annoyed the generations above us.

      --
      Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    6. Re:Millennials and "codes of conduct". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Because they are entitled children.

      This is a truism.I have worked with a few millennial adults who acted like spoiled children in the workplace. In another era such conduct would have resulted in immediate termination. I shudder to think how such behaviour would have been received when I was there age...to behave the way some millennial adults do these days would have been unthinkable to those of us of Generation-X.

    7. Re:Millennials and "codes of conduct". by KGIII · · Score: 2

      What's funny is that they don't think a majority can be the party discriminated against. I should go there and point out the traits of South Africa during the Apartheid. The black people were the majority yet were openly and ruthlessly oppressed. I'm not even white, well not entirely - I'm mixed, and even I see white people being subjected to biases because of their race. The minute you assume something about a person's being based on their skin color is the minute you become racist. If they're going to be that way then be that way openly and don't try to couch it in terms of equality and meritocracy.

      I gotta finish getting ready for a movie but I'll try reading the thread first. I've only made it this far and felt compelled to reply.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    8. Re:Millennials and "codes of conduct". by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      "Check your privilege"

      Duly noted. Thanks for being so polite.
      Getting back on topic.......

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    9. Re: Millennials and "codes of conduct". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Its the same reason they yell at people about respect without ever being respectful. They have been raised to believe anti-competition is competition and rules are meant to be broken. Pure idiocy. This is why I never buy the "never assume malice when ignorance can explain it" argument. It's made specifically to shield the malicious as playing dumb is all to easy.

    10. Re:Millennials and "codes of conduct". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's easy, you just start comparing them to Hitler.

      DoucheBrat: Check your privilege!
      mrbester: That sounds suspiciously like something Adolf Hitler might have said!

      From there it shouldn't be too difficult to portray them as a Nazi sympathizer and get everyone else to hate them.

    11. Re:Millennials and "codes of conduct". by radarskiy · · Score: 1

      Ending discrimination in favor of a group is not discriminating against that group.

    12. Re:Millennials and "codes of conduct". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is a weapon of HR / LEGAL first and foremost, and a small shield (like... a buckler) for certain situations where employees have issues with each other or with the company. From the organization standpoint, it's sort of like in poker... the more "outs" you have, the better. Code of Conduct is something that may be referenced to in an Employee Handbook.

    13. Re:Millennials and "codes of conduct". by DoofusOfDeath · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Can anyone explain to me why Millennials are so gung-ho about "codes of conduct", and why they're so hypocritical about them?

      Well, I could be wrong but I suspect every generation has had problems with snobbish moralism and hypocrisy. I've heard that August Caesar claimed himself to be a first amongst equals. But I would have hated to be anyone who in his presence dared treat him as an equal. About 2000 years ago, the Jews had a group known as the Pharisees, whom Jesus is said to have excoriated for excelling at making sure everyone around them saw how well they followed Jewish ceremonial law, but ignoring God's moral laws. I.e., they were sanctimonious jerks. Etc.

      But I think the bigger issue is that many of these organizations espouse code of ethics which are internally inconsistent, and yet they won't admit that. They won't admit that people might hold different moral viewpoints for reasons which are just as defensible as theirs.

      For example, Google says (said) "don't be evil". But there are different groups which have very incompatible views on what's evil: Pro-lifers vs. Planned Parenthood; conservatives vs. liberals vs. libertarians vs. anarchists; Christians vs. Muslims vs. atheists; Taliban vs. the Boston Symphony, etc. It's pretty clear that Google doesn't limit its actions to only those which all of those groups consider to be not evil.

      So which of those groups' definitions of "evil" does Google willingly transgress? That's how you know which religions they consider false, which ethnic groups' beliefs they consider outmoded, etc. But they will not admit this fundamental truth of moral logic. Making them, in addition to everything else, disingenuous hypocrites.

      Another problem is that organizations try to side-step the issue of whose ethics are correct, but saying that the real problem is causing offense. But this means that the most-offended person in the room gets the power to suppress the speech or actions of anyone with whom he disagrees. Some of whom find that, well, offensive. It stinks of sophism inspired by the fear of lawsuits.

    14. Re: Millennials and "codes of conduct". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No kidding
      Affirmative action is another way of saying attack white males who never did anything to anyone and give there jobs to less educated liberals.

    15. Re: Millennials and "codes of conduct". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      They have so few problems they have made up new ones. They are so lied to that their ignorance is astounding. It has nothing to do about generations. They just dont care about anything but stealing from older people. Commies.

    16. Re: Millennials and "codes of conduct". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yea nazi stood for national socialists party. They are are nazi brown shirt youth entitlted to everything by doing nothing.
      They hate GOD and love the rich socialist pope. The girls are free whores and the guys live at home.
      Worst gemeration ever.

    17. Re:Millennials and "codes of conduct". by Antique+Geekmeister · · Score: 1

      > I have a feeling that the annoyance felt by the existing generations when they view the generations below them stems from those younger generations being not part of the established mindset of those of the older generation

      And I remember this in the 1960's. The 1970's. The 1980's. The 1990's. And from Shakespeare's writing, it certainly dates back to the European Middle Ages.

      Is there anything surprising about this?

    18. Re:Millennials and "codes of conduct". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      "I'll check my privilege when you spend 1/10th as much time improving access to life-saving mosquito netting as you spend pontificating about social injustice. Your apathy is deadly, but at-least when I worry about myself before others: I'm not a hypocrite about it that tries to wash my conscience clean by lecturing others on social justice through #hashtagactivism. Fortunately for me, you're the most harmless type of moron: an ineffective one. I'm just grateful you're too impotent at effecting change to accomplish anything.

      If you were even moderately efficient about managing your misplaced guilt and were capable of doing something more substantial than writing inane tweets or social media posts then THAT would truly be a scary world to live in! I honestly hope you spend as much time giving junkies shelter and clean needles as you do blowing hot air on the internet.

      I wouldn't wish the company of an insufferable windbag such as yourself on my worst enemy. When your circle of friends is done burning witches to settle personal grudges you'll find yourself with nobody left who is willing to tolerate your loudmouth opinions and reckless accusations.

      Just do the world a favor: shut off your computer, and go play in traffic."

    19. Re:Millennials and "codes of conduct". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's a scary prospect when you are deferring to those with little experience or wisdom. Even worse when the idiocy of a generation is so boldly on display. The only frame of reference is actually the Salem Witch Trials. You'd think after so much history, the tendency would become more muted. Even the Evangelical Christian Right is more reasonable, It reminds me more of the hypocrisy that attends to a police state.

      It is probably just yelling to get the hell off my lawn, but I fail to recall a generation described so often as narcissistic. This strikes more than inter-generational kvetching.

    20. Re:Millennials and "codes of conduct". by Hognoxious · · Score: 2

      An interesting hypothesis. But have you considered the possibility that they actually are a bunch of feckless twats?

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    21. Re:Millennials and "codes of conduct". by ArylAkamov · · Score: 1

      Kafkatrapping.

    22. Re:Millennials and "codes of conduct". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      That so many are so hell bent on pushing their agenda of having the right to be offended and the power to decry / denounce / ban anyone they don't like for whatever reason (usually based on their own flawed perception of a utopia where everybody thinks exactly like they do) is pitiful.

      This is so true. They even included a damn paragraph on their code of conduct where they specifically declare they refuse "to explain or debate social justice concepts", and furthermore they even refuse to act on complaints regarding their unwillingness to explain them to anyone.

      They expect you to blindly follow their diktats, and proceed to shut up.

    23. Re:Millennials and "codes of conduct". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      A code of conduct isn't necessarily a bad thing.

      But these days they are ALWAYS the first step in identity politics taking over an organisation. Modern codes of conduct are specifically worded to act as a way to thought-police anyone who disagrees with you.

    24. Re:Millennials and "codes of conduct". by ultranova · · Score: 1

      "your right to swing stops at my face"

      Your right to swing stops when your fist gets close enough that I have to start paying attention to you or risk being caught by surprise. The problem is, the boundary of this "personal space" of mine isn't quite so clearly defined as the boundary of my body is, thus there's room both for abuse and mistakes either way.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    25. Re:Millennials and "codes of conduct". by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I read it and it actually illustrates the need for the reverse-ism rule perfectly.

      I'll get modded into oblivion fit this, but I'll try to explain. Some people like to scream racism and sexism when others suggest that they want to help a particular disadvantaged group. Many of the comments saying this don't even make sense. They claim that the reverse-ism rules make it okay to harass white males, but that's clearly not what they say and would break the "no harassment" rule anyway.

      Some groups have less privilege than others. That's just how the world is. White, straight, cis males are lucky because they benefited from the greatest affirmative action programme in the history of the world. It's called the history of the world.

      There is also the fact that doing stuff that helps say women get on in tech is not sexist unless it is to the detriment if men, and vice versa. Don't mistake criticism of Men's Rights Activists for a double standard. Those guys are asshats, that's why they are criticised. The argument that we should do nothing that isn't entirely gender and race and orientation neutral is itself sexist and racist, because it denies the problems that exist. Just saying "there is no problem now" does not fix anything. If it did car mechanics would be out of business.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    26. Re:Millennials and "codes of conduct". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If they are explicitly saying you can discriminate against white men, then yes, they are fucking wrong, and the people who do not say that are right.

    27. Re:Millennials and "codes of conduct". by ultranova · · Score: 1

      That so many are so hell bent on pushing their agenda of having the right to be offended

      Freedom of thought gives everyone the right to be offended over anything they feel like. That doesn't necessarily mean anyone else has an obligation to change their behaviour.

      the power to decry / denounce / ban anyone they don't like for whatever reason

      Freedom of speech gives everyone the right to decry and denounce anyone and anything they don't like for whatever reason. Freedom of association gives anyone the right to ban anyone from a forum they own.

      Has a name been attributed (a la Godwin) to the death of a thread when someone writes "Check your privilege"? Because apart from "Go fuck yourself" there isn't any response to it.

      You could reflect on whether your experience about whatever's being talked about is universal. If it is, they're lying so point that out, if it isn't, take that into account from then on, and perhaps correct whatever statement prompted the response.

      But no, as long as inequality exists there isn't an automatic response to counter "check your privilege" because you can't know whether you've stumbled into a manifestation of it before you check. Unless, of course, you're okay with being on the wrong side of history, in which case "go fuck yourself" is the only answer you either have or deserve, and anything else is just trying to mask it under more or less elaborate excuses.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    28. Re:Millennials and "codes of conduct". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Frankly telling them to go fuck themselves seems about right. Do we really need a better response? The moment someone says "check your privilege", you know nothing they say has a fucking bit of merit, and they are pretty much open season for mockery and insults.

    29. Re:Millennials and "codes of conduct". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The German term for what you are referring to is a Todschlagsargument - a death-blow argument. That does not mean that the argument is correct, but rather that it is constructed in such a way as to make further discussion meaningless/impossible. I think this sums up "Check your privilege" rather neatly.

    30. Re:Millennials and "codes of conduct". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So then turnabout is fair-play right? And helping disadvantaged (either through, class, wealth, or intellect) white males exclusively should be allowed and celebrated, should it not? After all, they have less privilege than millionaire white males...

      And this could not possibly be misconstrued as sexist or racist unless it can be proven to be to the detriment of women or non-whites.

      Congratulations, you've just recreated the old boys network you fought against. That why neutral standards of entry were instituted in the first place.

    31. Re:Millennials and "codes of conduct". by jazzis · · Score: 1

      To many Millennials, a "code of conduct" isn't something to help keep social interaction civil. It's actually a weapon that they use against those whom they dislike.

      Power corrupts. It's always been true, and it's still true. That's why a focus on personal and consensual choice, "your right to swing stops at my face", and liberty in general is needed to keep the error rate down to a dull roar -- just about every committee or action of a legislature is an act of exerting power. Far too often, that power is inappropriately construed, far too often that power is inappropriately applied. Classing is another wielding of power that consistently proves to be used as a means of harm and revenge. I can think of numerous examples in the technical realm, from ridiculous and irrelevant "certifications" to college degree requirements regardless of your knowledge and experience, to portions of the GPL.

      As for millennials, this didn't start with them, not even close. As a 60-year old fellow, I could go on for pages with accurate stories about social codes of conduct that were (and in many cases still are) used as attempts to bludgeon people into compliance with everything from superstition (by which I primarily mean various aspects of religion), to the red scare, to the 'Murica mindset, to the ridiculously exaggerated "sex trafficking" nonsense, to drug use and the drug war, slut shaming, gangsterism, terrorism, and so on. Seems to me that you're probably just finding the millennials more annoying because for whatever reason, their behavior has clashed with your outlook -- which is not to say anyone is right or wrong, just that there's an up-front conflict.

      Too true. +10

    32. Re: Millennials and "codes of conduct". by bistromath007 · · Score: 1

      Well, no shit. Older people have all the money, and we can't fathom the idea that any of you possibly could've earned it, because class mobility legitimately isn't possible the way it was in your time. Whether you believe it's because of malicious fiscal policy instituted for and by Boomers, or just an unavoidable reality of our society's failure to adapt to certain technologies in a timely fashion, it's a truth that many of your generation refuse to see and simply blame us for. Meanwhile, whether us kids actually feel any umbrage towards you or not, we're all basically waiting for you to die, simply because we're flatassed broke and inheriting whatever scraps you don't dump into having a fun retirement seems like our only hope.

    33. Re:Millennials and "codes of conduct". by Metabolife · · Score: 1

      And here comes the curveball.. religion. You're technically not born with it, but for many people you need to keep it if you want to have a family.

    34. Re:Millennials and "codes of conduct". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dear Anonymous Coward,

      We read your comment titled 'Millennials and codes of conduct'. However, this comment is in direct violation with rule 1 of the Github Code of Conduct:

      1. You're not allowed to disagree with my opinion, shitlord.

      You are banned from further commenting. Donate to our Patreon.

      Sincerely,
      Github

    35. Re:Millennials and "codes of conduct". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your right to swing stops when your fist enters my avatar's hitbox.

      FATALITY

    36. Re: Millennials and "codes of conduct". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      we are just watching the Baby Boomer Death Toll counter and waiting for it to hit 0. then the locus generation will be gone feom this earth forever

    37. Re:Millennials and "codes of conduct". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, I like that.

    38. Re:Millennials and "codes of conduct". by TWX · · Score: 1

      The only thing surprising about it is that people don't ever seem to remember it. If I remember right there were Greek philosophers that commented on it.

      --
      Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    39. Re: Millennials and "codes of conduct". by LinuxLuver · · Score: 1

      I've thought about this a lot over the years. Power doesn't corrupt. Power enables those who are already corrupt. It allows them to scale their character flaws beyond their own immediate personal context. We don't notice them or suffer under then until they gain power. But they were always corrupt.

      --
      Only boring people are ever bored.
    40. Re: Millennials and "codes of conduct". by cwsumner · · Score: 1

      I've thought about this a lot over the years.

      Power doesn't corrupt. Power enables those who are already corrupt. It allows them to scale their character flaws beyond their own immediate personal context. We don't notice them or suffer under then until they gain power. But they were always corrupt.

      You are right. But you are also wrong. 8-)

      It does often happen that way. But those who only have good intentions can really be corrupted by power, rationalizing the evil that they do until they become insane. I have seen it. And you can read about it in books about history (which is not the same as the history books in school).

    41. Re: Millennials and "codes of conduct". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The resentment of the older generations to the newer stems from their own regrets about their legacy, jealousy of the wide open futures the new generations have, and probably most potently the unconscious understanding that they will inevitably be supplanted by the new generations. Mother old resent the new for not having the wisdom that the old one never had either.

    42. Re:Millennials and "codes of conduct". by lucien86 · · Score: 1

      ".. You can't change the colour of your skin or whether or not you were born with nuts, drastic surgery excluded. .."

      Don't count on that staying true for much longer. I do work on science extrapolations and science fiction - including a few scenarios surrounding things like race and genetic engineering.

      One idea is a genetic weapon or -fashion item- that targets race or specifically skin colour. You infect yourself or someone infects you with the weapon and a few months later your skin starts gradually but completely changing colour. I am using it in a story set far in the future but the technology is almost possible today and pretty definitely will be possible within about 20 to 30 years...
      You could imagine the chaos that could ensue. White supremacists and black supremacists could use it to attack each other.. It could be used as a punishment to strip away someone's genetic identity.. It could evolve into weird new fashions...

      --
      Below the speed of light Special Relativity is one of the most accurate theories in physics - above the speed of light..
    43. Re:Millennials and "codes of conduct". by beastofburdon · · Score: 1

      That was a story in a book called "How to Save the World". I forget what the exact story was called, it was a collection of works. It was one of the better books I have read.

    44. Re:Millennials and "codes of conduct". by beastofburdon · · Score: 1

      I hear you loud and clear. It is literally impossible to satisfy some of these people and only a complete fool thinks you can reason with them. The term "social justice warrior" earned its derision many times over, and that was just the contribution of the "feminists." Of which are not, and never have been advocating for equality, but for superior status.

    45. Re:Millennials and "codes of conduct". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They are just a bunch of kids. Who gives a fuck what they say? What possible piece of advice could someone with zero life experience or responsibility ever provide?

    46. Re: Millennials and "codes of conduct". by countach · · Score: 1

      On the internet you are whoever you say you are. Surgery not required.

  21. Morally right? Ethically right? Legally right? by Culture20 · · Score: 1

    Conveniently right? "Right" is more nebulous than "not evil".

  22. There's some big philosophical differences. by RyanFenton · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Evil, outside of special pleading for a particular belief system, is usually framed in terms of actively choosing the harm of others (even if it is masked in deniability). There's some very important meaning in 'don't be evil' that I always liked. Even if some evil is deemed unavoidable by sheer weight of circumstances in life, the general policy should still be to avoid it if at all doable, by any philosophy I'd respect..

    "Do the right thing", however, is utterly subjective. Genocide can be seen as the right thing, by a great many, many belief systems, as could complete elimination of all other belief systems. Complete stagnation lies down most 'pure' roads. Utter evil, the complete willingness to harm others at a whim, is constantly 'justified' in the name of most ideals taken in isolation.

    I suppose that's a problem with business groups though - the more people involved, the more push to 'optimize' towards some ideal that gets so important, that 'evil' is no longer a limitation. All groups do evil, because there are people involved, but most businesses seem to become blind to their own evil as they grow, until they specialize in mostly doing that evil. Well, until those outside the group start reacting to their actions, then they seem to asymptotically bounce against, and push out the ethical line.

    Fortunately, the end result isn't so horrible, by most standards, basically ever measurable aspect of culture has reliably improved over time, from freedom, to intelligence scales, to health and others - but it's just interesting how groups specialize and play such strange roles.

    Ryan Fenton

    1. Re:There's some big philosophical differences. by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      "do the right thing" is all well and good, as long as one remembers how to apply the golden rule. Namely, we wouldn't want people doing things to us in the name of helping us, only for us. Which means consulting us first.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    2. Re:There's some big philosophical differences. by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      There's some very important meaning in 'don't be evil' that I always liked. .... ... "Do the right thing", however, is utterly subjective.

      Hardly. People have been equating the words evil with anything they don't like for a good 5+ years now. One of the best cases I saw was something being opt out instead of opt in like the poster wanted, thus Google is evil.

      Meaning is derived on a person by person basis. When people derive meaning from some inbred hate for a corporation it doesn't matter what the slogan is, subjectively it is still the same and the company is breaking it. Damn those corporations.

    3. Re:There's some big philosophical differences. by DoofusOfDeath · · Score: 1

      Evil, outside of special pleading for a particular belief system, is usually framed in terms of actively choosing the harm of others (even if it is masked in deniability).

      I'm not sure "special pleading" means what you think it means.

    4. Re:There's some big philosophical differences. by Antique+Geekmeister · · Score: 1

      > Hardly. People have been equating the words evil with anything they don't like for a good 3500+ years now.

      Go back to the Code of Hammurabi for the earliest written examples.

    5. Re:There's some big philosophical differences. by chihowa · · Score: 1

      There's some very important meaning in 'don't be evil' that I always liked.

      I've always through that the need to specifically remind yourself to not be evil was a little damning in itself. It seemed a bit like the guy wandering the subway muttering to himself, "don't murder anybody." It's not exactly reassuring.

      --
      If you want a vision of the future, imagine a youtube comments section scrolling - forever.
  23. 100% Wrong Timothy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Google's more specific code of conduct remains largely the same, and it retains the "don't be evil" motto."

    Is there something wrong with your brain Timmy?

  24. Re:Morally right? Ethically right? Legally right? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sure as heck not "Right" as in Conservative or Republican. Google is a big shareholder in the Obama White House.

  25. TFA Says Goggle Retains "Don't Be Evil" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    TFA Says Goggle Retains "Don't Be Evil".

    Just more Timothy being an idiot.

  26. The problem wth tyrants is they're friendly ... by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 1

    Until someone decides ... That being evil is the right thing to do. You know, ends justify the means and all that jazz...

    (At the risk of precipitating a storm of posts misapplying Godwin's law...)

    One of the big problems with tyrannical systems and the tyrants who end up running them is that they're attractive. The rhetoric sounds nice. The people setting then up and running them are sweet, reasonable-sounding, and persuasive (at least at first and/or to those they need to support them to obtain and keep power), and so on.

    Then, after they've driven their "nice" ideas into their horrible, but inevitable, ramifications, and (if they) are eventually stopped, the historical record ends up showing you just their opponents' propaganda, painting them as obviously hateful. So people get the idea that bad uses of power LOOK repulsive. Then they don't recognize similar stuff when it develops in the future (or even the SAME stuff if it reappears - as one high-school history teacher showed by using Hitler Youth techniques on his class for a week, with just enough deltas to make their origin not recognizable until after the great reveal.

    IMHO the change in motto from "Don't Be Evil" to "Do the Right Thing" is a (probably accidental, but nonetheless actual) giant leap down "The Road Paved with Good Intentions".

    --
    Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
    1. Re:The problem wth tyrants is they're friendly ... by rwa2 · · Score: 1

      Doesn't even have to by tyrants. EVERYONE honestly believes they are doing the right thing. Jesus thought he was doing the right thing. Pontius Pilate thoughr he was doing the right thing. Your mom thought she was doing the right thing. Elite German SS soldiers thought they were doing the right thing. Abortion clinics and the people who put down dogs and cats for the SPCA thought they did the right thing. Abortion clinic bombers thought they did the right thing. Suicide bombers thought they did the right thing. Al Qaida thought they put up a good struggle. Gay-bashers thought they did the right thing. Bigot bullies thought they did the right thing. Religious followers thought they did the right thing.

      You know who else put up a good struggle?

      No one wants to be wrong. And they'll go to any length not to have to face being wrong.

      There are no good and evil people on this Earth. Even (especially!) serial killers, satan worshippers, rapists, drug addicts, tax cheats, tax collectors, lawyers, and murderers. They all are doing what they believe to be the right thing.

      Who is good and evil in a chess match? Who is right and who is wrong? It's all in how you play the game.

    2. Re:The problem wth tyrants is they're friendly ... by plopez · · Score: 1

      No you are wrong. I have met some evil people in my life.

      --
      putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
    3. Re:The problem wth tyrants is they're friendly ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > EVERYONE honestly believes they are doing the right thing.

      Dude, sin is *much* more fun if you admit it's a sin. I'm keeping my library books an extra week right now!

    4. Re:The problem wth tyrants is they're friendly ... by mwvdlee · · Score: 2

      I agree with GP.

      Are you sure those evil people weren't acting out of some extreme "survival of the fittest, and I decide who's fittest" principle they thought right, instead of intentionally and knowingly being evil? Minds can become horribly twisted and self-justifying, you know.

      --
      Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
    5. Re:The problem wth tyrants is they're friendly ... by Gavagai80 · · Score: 1

      Fascists were never sweet and reasonable-sounding, nor did they try to be. The people don't want sweet and reasonable, the people want safety and order to put a halt to the chaos they perceive around them.

      --
      This space intentionally left blank
    6. Re:The problem wth tyrants is they're friendly ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are wrong. Many, many people know they are doing something evil but rationalize that it's only fair or convince themselves over time that they can't not do it. The serial killer, the rapist, the drug addict, the tax cheat have tell themselves that they need to do this and can't fight the compulsion. Or they just want it too badly and believe they'll get away with it. If caught, they'll talk about how they deserved it, but that's a rationalization and I think at the end of the day they know that.

      We are far too quick in our society to call "right" relative. That gives us an easier time of doing evil without as much guilt, because X is what is right for me.

      The crazy thing is that we know that some actions are better than others and thus there must be a "best" action. It's like our society wants us to believe that
      10+11 = 15 (that's right for you)
      10+11 = 18 (this is right for me)
      10+11 = 20 (that's right for you)
      10+11 = 21 (that's right for you)
      10+11 = 27 (that's right for you)

      I would posit that our overall societal value of "that's right for you, and this is right for me" enables a great deal of evil in our society.

    7. Re:The problem wth tyrants is they're friendly ... by plopez · · Score: 1

      Yes. They were looking to hurt people just because they could and could get away with it.

      --
      putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
  27. hmmm... by aquabat · · Score: 1

    Maybe, just maybe, (sometimes, but only if the conditions warrant it), being evil is the right thing to do.

    --
    A republic cannot succeed till it contains a certain body of men imbued with the principles of justice and honour.
    1. Re:hmmm... by robi5 · · Score: 2

      Yeah, and sometimes, not being evil is the wrong thing to do. So what now? Both are incredibly vague, unactionable, unmeasurable things whose meanings completely hinge on interpretation and value system. It's a corporate motto, and adherence to it is impossible to measure, even if there existed common understanding about what's good and evil. I.e. it's just part of a company's PR.

    2. Re:hmmm... by aquabat · · Score: 1

      Saying "Don't be evil" isn't a semantically null phrase though. They're not saying it for the benefit of shareholders or the public; it's for the people working there. It's a virtual smack in the back of the head, a way to say "use your common sense", or "think about how you would feel if someone did this to you", I think. "Do the right thing" just doesn't have the same focus on users that "Don't be evil". It feels more... slippery, at least to me.

      --
      A republic cannot succeed till it contains a certain body of men imbued with the principles of justice and honour.
    3. Re:hmmm... by robi5 · · Score: 1

      It's funny that there are rules of similar origin, e.g. emissions reductions out of concern for global warming, that are codified into law, and are as objective and measurable as they can get, and corporations have departments and processes whose sole focus is to ensure that the corporation abides by the law, and wham, something like the Volkswagen scandal comes to light. But you're right that a motto like "don't be evil" is better at slightly biasing individual and collective organizational behavior than "do the right thing".

  28. Re:Has a nice Machiavellian ring to it, don't you by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The Right Thing (tm) is to pass all your private information and communications to the government in a timely fashion.

  29. In related news, down on Animal Farm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Four legs good, two legs better!"

  30. Really? by ledow · · Score: 1

    Is it just me?

    "Don't be evil" is like said "Don't commit crime".

    It's stupid, obvious, and pointless to say. It should be obvious.

    "Do the right thing" is much, much, much more difficult to do and something that happens much less often.

    Not that it matters, it's a fucking company motto, which means nowhere near as much as they've spent on consultants to come up with that bollocks.

    But in terms of semantics, this is an upgrade, if anything.

    1. Re: Really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually it isn't just you, it's just Timothy.

      This is about Alphabet.

      Google remains unchanged.

  31. We're google, we dn't care because we don't hve to by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    They did the right thing...and decided to be honest.

    We have been doing evil for a long time now and it is time we come clean. We are a corporation and as such are legally obliged to make our shareholders money. Sometimes it comes as collecting data on you to sell better ads. Other times it is making spying software for the government using your tax dollar.

  32. I don't want to hold your beer by fyngyrz · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Googlers generally apply those words to how we serve our users.

    Really? Like charging them for a service that you won't fix the bugs in? (base)
    Really? Like forcing everyone to remove their copyright info from images so you can use those images to benefit competitors who pay you more (base, again)
    Really? Like never adding the most basic, 1990s-old commonly used features to GMail?
    Really? Like classing websites according to your anti-sex moralistic bullshit and then locking those people out of earning a living?

    It appears to me that not only do you (Google, Google employees) not apply "those words", you have no bloody idea what they mean.

    You can go back to making your money-driven search results now. Cuz, hey, THAT is "serving your users" (up on a platter, that is.)

    --
    I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
    1. Re:I don't want to hold your beer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Really? Like charging them for a service that you won't fix the bugs in? (base)
      Really? Like forcing everyone to remove their copyright info from images so you can use those images to benefit competitors who pay you more (base, again)
      Really? Like never adding the most basic, 1990s-old commonly used features to GMail?
      Really? Like classing websites according to your anti-sex moralistic bullshit and then locking those people out of earning a living?

      These are some awfully weak examples. The downside does not rise to "evil," and each one has an upside as well.

      Also, you are closer to finding opposition with each of those to "do the right thing" than to "don't be evil" because the complaints you list are so banal and self-interested: they all boil down to "it makes me angry when you take away what you used to give."

  33. CNet, The Verge, and many other outlets are report by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    CNet, The Verge, and many other outlets are reporting that Alphabet, a new company, has a different corporate ethics logo than Google, which retains the existing "Don't be evil."

  34. it's just a motto by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    it doesn't really mean anything. that's my motto.

  35. The gloves are off by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Without the "Don't Be Evil" mandate, Google can now do all sorts of wonderful things like collecting data on every mouseclick and page visit, correlate it with your credit card spending data, insurance records, search history, phone records, mortgage info, geo-tracking data, and use it to flood you with tailored ads. Oh, wait, they already do that.

    --
    Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    1. Re:The gloves are off by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      And there we have it folks. Collecting and correlating data to gain profit from advertising while providing an otherwise free service that many people benefit from has yet again been equated as being evil.

      This is exactly why it was pointless to keep the slogan. Evil has no specific meaning beyond some person disagreeing with a course of action and thus deeming the other party to be "evil".

  36. be very afraid by rewindustry · · Score: 1

    far from "slightly different", these are polar opposites.

    this is mitosis. ...and as the hurricane said to the palm tree - guard your nuts, this is no ordinary blowjob

    brendan o' carroll

    1. Re:be very afraid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      hehehe, i like the way you compare corporate history events to bacteria reproducing, its very fitting, imo.

      Personally, i think its the corporate equivalent of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thalassemia

      Having a gene coding for thalassemia in one of the parents is advantageous, having a gene in each parent is a good chance of child having the disease.

  37. It's just a sad joke anyhow by Sarusa · · Score: 2

    'Don't be Evil' has been a sad joke since Schmidt joined - and yes, it was made 'official' only after he joined (the 2004 IPO letter).

    As long as you've got a Bond villain running the thing it's just a cynical publicity ploy, typical Bay Area 'activism'.

  38. Negativity and the Subconscious by VernonNemitz · · Score: 2

    The old motto "Don't be evil" has always bothered me because the phrasing encompasses two negative things. It is my understanding that the subconscious mind tends to ignore words like "don't", and only focus on the rest of any statement that includes it --which in this case would be a statement that is still a negative thing! So, the new motto "Do the right thing" is, in my view, a vast improvement over the old one. Sure, the subphrase "right thing" is open to interpretation, and we can be sure that sometime someone will choose a problematic interpretation, but for the most part it is quite a positive motto.

    1. Re:Negativity and the Subconscious by wonkey_monkey · · Score: 1

      "Don't be evil" also implies that, unless they keep reminding themselves not to with a motto, they'd be doing evil by default.

      A bit like walking into the dentist's and being told "Here at Premium Dentacare, we always try to send our patients home alive!"

      --
      systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
    2. Re:Negativity and the Subconscious by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

      "Do the right thing" is a much stronger statement. "Don't be evil" doesn't eliminate such possibilities as "be stupid", "be careless", etc.

      --
      Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
    3. Re:Negativity and the Subconscious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sounds good to me, man. Not like that Dudley's Dental place where they don't even mention whether they send their clients home alive or dead. Or at all for that matter.

    4. Re:Negativity and the Subconscious by Oligonicella · · Score: 2

      Neither does "Do the right thing".

    5. Re:Negativity and the Subconscious by mwvdlee · · Score: 1

      Perhaps they understood that for-profit companies DO default to evil.
      Dentists default to keeping patient alive enough to keep paying dentist bills.

      --
      Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
  39. Stupid People by Etherwalk · · Score: 1

    Do the right thing... for whom? Without a specifier it does not tell us anything. It is definitely not the same as "don't be evil", although we've figured out that Google has not followed that mantra for a while now (not at Apple levels yet!).

    Do the right thing is more appealing as a marketing slogan because it caters to people who are stupider and more plentiful. It's useful for reaching them. It doesn't even admit to the possibility of evil, It's much more cliche, it probably tests better with focus groups, it's not quite as easy from a communications standpoint to be mocked with it, and it's even easier to make it mean whatever you want and trot it out to use as part of product launches--better, it's designed to do that *without* making someone think about whether something is evil. So suppose you have a business model built around collecting all the knowledge on the planet, monitoring communications, monitoring web sites, fundamentally monitoring behavior... and you want a nice, innocuous little logo.

    They're a good company, but their business model is inherently at high risk for evil and abuse of power. So shifting away from the idea of evil is a good marketing decision.

  40. Re:Has a nice Machiavellian ring to it, don't you by mrbester · · Score: 3, Informative

    "Of all tyrannies a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive."

    C. S. Lewis

    --
    "Wait. Something's happening. It's opening up! My God, it's full of apricots!"
  41. Do the right thing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Stage 1 "Don't be evil"
    Stage 2 "Do the right thing"
    Stage 3 "Don't not do the wrong thing"
    Stage 4 "Do evil things to wrong people"
    Stage 5 "Do evil things to everyone"

  42. Hmmm by koan · · Score: 0

    The right thing for whom?

    --
    "If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
  43. Sometimes evil is the right thing to do... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    given that the morality of nations and corporations is not always the same as individuals.

  44. Re:Has a nice Machiavellian ring to it, don't you by macraig · · Score: 1

    I know of the quote, but isn't it ironic coming from a monotheistic Believer that penned the Chronicles? The Christian God is the ultimate tyrant. Was this quote a momentary bursting of his bubble?

  45. Comma-phobia by wonkey_monkey · · Score: 1

    Google As Alphabet Subsidiary Drops "Don't Be Evil"

    Why are we still continuing the tradition of writing headlines in weirdly mangled and abbreviated English with stupid capitalisation?

    Google, as an Alphabet subsidiary, drops "Don't Be Evil"

    --
    systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
    1. Re:Comma-phobia by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Man Mulls then Files Complaint

  46. Re: Their Republican donations... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They've shown the past few years that they care more about profit than people. The is, by definition, Republicanism.

  47. Sometimes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    One must be evil to do the right thing.

  48. Re: Their Republican donations... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And their donations to Internet access and demands to their employees for us to give to fund Internet access rather than provide healthcare or food to children is the worst example of Republicanism. Bill Gates called them on this BS. Gates is doing great things, but Google is only trying to provide themselves with even more customers. They are truly Republican.

  49. the moderation here is a joke by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    According to opensecrets.org, Google gave $102,100 to that GOPper group. So this site now attacks people for posting the truth?

    1. Re: the moderation here is a joke by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Give up. This site went full blown 'wringer a few years ago. Posts that tell the truth are now voted down. Google gave money to the Republicans. That information by law is publicly available.

    2. Re: the moderation here is a joke by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Liberals can't handle the truth so they bury it.

    3. Re:the moderation here is a joke by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They donated far more to the Democrats. Source, your own site:
      https://www.opensecrets.org/or...

  50. Re:Has a nice Machiavellian ring to it, don't you by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's generally evil to insult someone without cause. In this case it is not evil to insult someone. You are a moron.

  51. Ruh Row, Raggy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Now we're really gonna get it.

  52. Stupid mods by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why was this truth marked as a troll. Why try to hide the truth. The truth is that Google gave money to the Republicans.

  53. "Don't be evil" - "Do the right thing" by JSG · · Score: 1

    The beauty of "do the right thing" is that you no longer have to be seen to be claiming the moral high ground. I wonder who they will be doing the right thing to or for. On the bright side, Goog's mission statement of doing the right thing will now be more accurate - literally and figuratively: if you are a shareholder.

  54. Re: Their Republican donations... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The moderators may be able to censor you, but the people know the truth about Google. Know the truth.

  55. censorship by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well, I guess I'm going to stop using Google in general. First a string of censorship on their part with multiple news bloggers, and now this.

  56. Re:Has a nice Machiavellian ring to it, don't you by macraig · · Score: 1

    Google is not a person, unless you buy into a sick legal fiction perpetrated for the benefit of such. And "without cause"? What cave have you been living in for the last five years of news about Google wrongdoing?

  57. Life Fact by bobmajdakjr · · Score: 1

    sometimes doing the right thing requires evil actions.

  58. FFS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    From:

    https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/summary.php?id=D000022008

    National Republican Senatorial Cmte $102,100

    The gave over $100k just at the OP claimed. Nice to see the biased moderators here that want to suppress the truth. Google went evil years ago.

  59. New Motto by BlackHawk-666 · · Score: 1

    "Do the right thing...for the shareholders, all all and any cost."

    --
    All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.
  60. Evil too is in the eye of the beholder. by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 2
    Almost everyone would say without any hesitation throwing your new born baby in the river is an evil. But is it?

    Ganga Mata, consort of Emperor Shantanu the Great, threw her new born baby into the Ganges, not once but seven times. You see eight celestials, Guardians of the eight directions were sentenced to live as humans, for some crime[*] they committed. On appeal their sentence was commuted for seven of them, they were allowed to die as soon as possible and return as celestials. They appealed to Mother Ganges to serve as their mother and kill them before they get a chance to commit any sin and be caught in the perpetual cycle of sins and rebirths. The eighth one who had to serve a full lifetime as a human, was spared by Mother Ganges. Once you get the details, you see what mother Ganges did was not evil at all, but an act of utmost kindness.

    What life the eighth one had!

    He was the one originally named Satyaviradhan, later named Bheeshman and lived a long and illustrious life, torn between the allegiance he swore to his father's throne and the degenerate their Crown Prince Duryodhanan had become. He gave his life for the oath of loyalty, his blessings and love for the righteous descendants of his dynasty. He fell on the tenth day of the battle, shot by his beloved grandson Arjunan (and the first gender reassigned warrior recorded anywhere, Shikandi) and died on the following winter solstice, roughly five thousand years ago.

    [*] Their crime: They stole a cow that gave ambrosia as milk for the benefit of a human friend, lied about it.

    --
    sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
    1. Re:Evil too is in the eye of the beholder. by robi5 · · Score: 1

      Is there some tl;dr version of this?

  61. They switched alignment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The real summary should have been: Google switches alignment, from Good or Neutral to Lawful.

    The old motto "Don't be evil" clearly suggests a Good or Neutral alignment, whether lawful or chaotic.

    The new one, "Do the right thing," implies a Lawful alignment. But that could be Good, Neutral, or Evil.

    Considering that one possible Lawful Evil charachter is the archetipal Overlord, who values power over all else and uses the law to maintain control, I'd say we have a match. Darth Vader and the Emperor he served had this alignment.

    I, for one, welcome our new Google overlords.

  62. They switched alignment by TobiX · · Score: 1

    The real summary should have been: Google switches alignment, from Good or Neutral to Lawful. The old motto "Don't be evil" clearly suggests a Good or Neutral alignment, whether lawful or chaotic. The new one, "Do the right thing," implies a Lawful alignment. But that could be Good, Neutral, or Evil. Considering that one possible Lawful Evil charachter is the archetipal Overlord, who values power over all else and uses the law to maintain control, I'd say we have a match. Darth Vader and the Emperor he served had this alignment. I, for one, welcome our new Google overlords.

  63. Stop replying to your own posts greenwow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You are a troll. Go away.

  64. still better than a few alternatives I could name by Junior+J.+Junior+III · · Score: 1

    Still better than a few alternatives I could name, such as:

    1) redefine good.
    2) redefine good to mean good for google.

    --
    You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!
  65. "Do the Right Thing" allows more room for Evil by tanstaaf1 · · Score: 2

    Google was doing evil right from the beginning and has continued with that pretty much every step of the way. At the beginning the moto, together with all the "Free" software and "Free Software" gave them the benefit of the doubt, and encouraged people to simply trust them. So, it was a con and an effective one. As they took pictures of your house. As they drove down your street, photographing you, your house, your license plate without permission -- and even actively sniffing out your IP address so they could better tag you and exploit you.... As they collected your phone number, under pretense it was for your "safety". As they moved into the phone business in order to spy on you ever more effectively and add your contacts to their cross-referencing. Etc. Etc. Etc. (I know I am preaching to the crowd here, for the most part, but occasionally it helps to step back and connect the many dots to make crystal that Google has been doing Evil with clear intention (and a lot of bullshit rationalizations and fanboy fanning; Google as been deliberate and CUNNING and manipulative and misleading...in their EVIL. Anyway, what Google is doing is something commonly done when people and, especially, companies have burned through their "good will". It is called "rebranding" and it is a major tip off to their new plans for exploitation of the human race. Google and Facebook and Monsanto and Microsoft are like those pigs in Animal Farm. Consider how well THAT story of trust and goodwill worked out for the more ordinary animals.

  66. Settling for less... by pubwvj · · Score: 1

    I'll accept being good and not very evil.

  67. New = better? by Reaper9889 · · Score: 1

    I think the new could be viewed as better than the old. Not doing anything is not evil and would therefore qualify for the old but not the new. it would have been more clear perhaps if they had said: be (or do) good. The problem with that is that would only say what was wanted when compare to the old, since good is not just the oppeosite of evil.

    I think any cynical reading was clearly not intentional (you need to be quite strange to tell people that you intend to be more evil in the future) but they should have seen it coming.

  68. Talk is Cheap by tanstaaf1 · · Score: 1

    Google Proved That. Classic seduction tactic - hand out candy and whisper sweet things as you slide your hands down the little kids pants.

  69. responses to check your privledge by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    1) Still got em, still awesome (for making a bit of a mockery of them)

    2) You're right, needed to run my browser as an administrator

    3) Left the wheel bits on, so I'm fine

    4) SUDO make sandwich;
    $user is not in the sudoers file. this incident will be reported. (with link to the obligitory XKCD, 838)

    In short, dealing with it requires a sense of humor, and the willingness to ignore the kind of stupid that generates it.

  70. Changed motto because ... by Forever+Wondering · · Score: 1

    Maybe now [after careful analysis, of course], "Being evil ..." is "Doing the right thing ..."

    --
    Like a good neighbor, fsck is there ...
  71. Hitler by msobkow · · Score: 1

    I'm sure Hitler thought he was "doing the right thing."

    --
    I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
    1. Re:Hitler by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      hey, you know, i hate google more than most people

      but if the random market is going to dump a trillion dollars on an organization, they could have done worse.
      what we ended up with a some kind of fucked up self important cult that provides a marginal return

      of course they could have done better. image gls with 1 trillion dollars.

    2. Re:Hitler by msobkow · · Score: 1

      "Evil" is just a lot less subjective than "the right thing." The "right thing" for what reasons? What motives? Whose benefit?

      Evil, on the other hand, is a much clearer term in most people's minds.

      --
      I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
  72. Do the right thing for who? by superdave80 · · Score: 1

    The great thing with this new slogan is the ambiguity of it. Do the right think, but just don't say WHO you are doing the right thing for. Are you doing the right thing for customers and users? Or for shareholders and executives?

  73. The end justifies the means by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The difference between "Don't be evil" and "Do the right thing" is that it's okay to be evil if the end justifies the means.

  74. Re: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    To do the "right" thing Google Alphabet must always turn right, never left, which is likely to be a better description of their long-term path than the previous "don't do evil motto". Evil is too ambiguous to set the company direction and it relies on religious belief in Google's direction. Now Google's direction is clear without any fanaticism.

  75. Re:Has a nice Machiavellian ring to it, don't you by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't see the abrahamic God (Yahweh, Allah, whatever you want to call him) taking a half of my paycheck in taxes, or enforcing my compliance with his laws using heavily armed, violent men. Dunno about you, though,.

  76. Summery is Wrong by Paxtez · · Score: 5, Informative

    Google's code is still 'Don't be evil.'

    https://investor.google.com/co...

    Alphabet, the new company that Google is a part of, has it's own code that is the 'Do the right thing'.

    But that's a much less interesting headline.

    1. Re:Summery is Wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do the right thing: "is for the future of the humanity"... lol

  77. Re:Has a nice Machiavellian ring to it, don't you by mrbester · · Score: 1

    I'm not sure that is the underlying intent; JC basically threw all the original commandments out and replaced them with but 2, the second one boiling down to "don't be a dick". It's the refusal of so-called Christians to relinquish the more fire and brimstone ones that creates the tyranny.

    --
    "Wait. Something's happening. It's opening up! My God, it's full of apricots!"
  78. So many news titles lying by omission today. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's like a litmus test for journalistic integrity.

  79. Well in that case... by die+standing · · Score: 1

    "Alphabet Inc" should alter the slogan to "Do Things Right" -- that would be better, for one, it would save them some keystrokes. Cheers.

  80. Re:Has a nice Machiavellian ring to it, don't you by macraig · · Score: 1

    I wasn't talking about the rules of behavior for His Children; that's secondary. I was referring to the Author. I was referring to the tyrannical behavior of God himself as *ahem* "documented" in some detail in the Old Testament in particular. He Himself doesn't operate by the Ten Commandments; His behavior is worse than what is mandated by those. Dude is a full-on psycho tyrant.

  81. Re:Has a nice Machiavellian ring to it, don't you by macraig · · Score: 1

    You haven't been paying attention. God - or at least his minions - gets his pound of flesh.

  82. The Time Machine Says by Nehmo · · Score: 1

    I wasn't going to tell anybody, but I have a device that allows me to peer into the future. I came across a history piece describing the evolution of Google's moto. I'll share it:

    Don't be evil.
    Do the right thing.
    Do the right thing if you can.
    Do the right thing unless you must do otherwise.
    Do what you must.
    If you need to be evil, go for it.
    Be Evil.

    --
    (||) Nehmo (||)
  83. The new Universal Life Church? by cocoabean · · Score: 1

    As a minister in the Universal Life Church, I say thanks Google for embracing our goal:
      "To do that which is right".

  84. The reason by MrKaos · · Score: 1

    Unfortunately Amazon already had 'Be Evil'

    --
    My ism, it's full of beliefs.
    1. Re:The reason by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Which is why google adopted "Don't. Be Evil".

  85. Evil but Ethical by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And this is where most companies fail. What most folks would consider immoral is twisted into something ethical, and staff are prohibited from making their own judgements about what is or isn't ethical.

  86. uh, why didn't they just make it by cats-paw · · Score: 1

    "do the right thing for our sharedolders" ?

    --
    Absolute statements are never true
  87. How Is It Dropped?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    https://investor.google.com/corporate/google-code-of-conduct.html
    First line, first words: “Don’t be evil.”
    It seems some idiots at cnet.com are evil and create this FUD against Google.

  88. Yeah, okay. by bistromath007 · · Score: 1

    Let's all pretend that for the past five years, Google hasn't been acting more like "don't be evil" was a patronizing directive to their less desirable users, basically equivalent to "do as I say, not as I do."

  89. Alphabet Agency Subsidiary? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm sure they justify whatever they do as doing "the right thing."

  90. We each have different moral compasses by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We each have different moral compasses.

    "Don't be evil" means something different to each person.
    The same applies to "Do the right thing." We each have a different idea on what that means.

    These difference come from many different areas in our lives. Culture, economic status, even which city we were raised in.

    For example, I was raised in Nebraska. I've traveled the world and have seen how middle class people the world over tend to have similar beliefs on the big issues.

    People with less economic power sometimes need to decide about the less-bad outcome - hence why petty theft of tourist may not be seen as "evil" if that leads to a meal for the family.

    Super wealthy people sometimes have the same moral compass as the middle class, but not always. They may feel entitled to be paid outrageous salaries. After all, they have all the responsibility.

    I've seen Chinese grandmas do things in public that my grandma would have jumped all over - like cutting in line. I've seen the same from high-caste Indians in airport queues. I was highly offended by these acts, but it didn't seem that anyone else around me was.

    Is my moral compass off because I think jumping a line is "evil"? I suspect people who grew up in huge cities would have a different view on that.

    These motos are not for us, they are for the google employees. As such, perhaps the change is a good one? It allows freedom to decide, sets a reasonable standard, and should make googlers feel empowered.

  91. Evil vs right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I guess that sometimes evil might be the right thing to do?

  92. Reaction to clickbait press by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Don't be evil" was a great motto to use privately yourself because it reminds you that you can accidentally become evil, but it does not say "don't _do_ evil" because that's impossible. The old motto gives you freedom to make mistakes. It is because of _our_ evil here on slashdot that they had to change it: jeering clickbait press is one of the biggest evils of our time, and facilitating its creation is probably the most, or second most, evil thing Google has accidentally done. Every time someone wants to criticize Google, out trots the motto, which makes everyone look a little more like a peanut gallery and every criticism a little bit more snipey since aside from the useful content of the criticism you get to add this fake "hypocrisy" charge as well.

    The new slogan is less useful internally but might make the press less evil. It reminds you that you do have a right to expect good intentions of them, but not perfection. It's about doing instead of being, so it reminds you that you don't have a right to expect automatic agreement or for them to otherwise share your vision of the world. They only offer you the right to expect their good intent.

    Basically it is changing because all you/us suck.

  93. Letting bad things happen IS evil... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    On every single impression and search at the Google home page there have been trillions of chances for Google to make a difference with a simple link to something that could benefit mankind.

    They could have helped end world hunger a thousand times over.

    They could have saved the death and slavery of millions.

    They could have raised enough money to likely cure most disease in the world, or at least eased the pain of those suffering a lot.

    Today, they could take a fair amount of their saved fortunes and solved any number of migratory or other world peace type problems.

    It is time... God's pissed off. God gave the leaders at Google these abilities and they chose to not use their abilities for good... Instead trying to not do evil. That in itself is evil. The way God works is simple... it's white or black. Gray = black. So in the body of an effort... if even one eyelash is a tiny itsy bitsy bit gray, then the body itself is not white, and God will reject it.

    I believe God is going to start show who is in charge in these end times by crushing the biggest name out there - Google. They will be broke, and their leaders will all be broke also. This will happen soon... maybe one day, one week, or one year... only God knows when... but soon. It's not too late for Larry and Sergie to ask for forgiveness and change their ways... but it's not looking like that's going to happen any time soon. :(

    The end times are here, you can see it on the news every day... All these big corps better start helping the world... or they will be next.

    - David
    (yea... *that* David... I'm here on earth now.)

    1. Re:Letting bad things happen IS evil... by lucien86 · · Score: 1

      You've been watching too much Fox 'news' again I'm afraid. America and the modern world are ruled by the money God, in its eyes the only crime is being poor. In its eyes Google are saints and among the worlds most blessed.. We all worship at the Google shrine every day, and if you don't you should abandon the lesser search engines and return to the master.. Do the Right Thing!

      --
      Below the speed of light Special Relativity is one of the most accurate theories in physics - above the speed of light..
  94. Good... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    At least they dropped the hypocrisy.

  95. Makes More Sense by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Not doing evil is NOT the same as doing right.

    Corporations that eliminate jobs to make the books look good at the end of the year may not be evil, but it's not right.

    Banks doing whatever might be legal to make money may not be evil, but it's not right.

    People who spin facts to present a skewed truth may not be evil, but what they do is not right.

    It is more important to do right than to not be evil.

  96. Evil depends of... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...the point of view. I am quite sure the Nazis we executed after WW2 had a completely different point of view on evil from ours.
    The same can be said about good and right and truth.

  97. Do the right thing? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well, they're already thinking about censoring anyone who disagrees with someone else (mainly anyone who disagrees with feminists will get censored), so what else will they do in the name of doing 'the right thing'?

  98. Don't Be Evil by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sounded childish, but "Do The Right Thing," is highly subjective. Don't be Evil OTOH is not open to question. Here are a couple hypothetical back-and-forths:

    Don't Be Evil: Here's the plan... Wait, is it evil? Yes, but... NO! NO BUTS.

    Do the right thing: Here's the plan... Wait, is it evil? Yes, but it's the right thing to do FOR OUR SHAREHOLDERS... Oh, well, that's okay then. Yes, let's do that.

    Of course it was only ever a motto anyway, which is not like part of their corporate charter, but I guess they didn't want that hanging over their heads with every decision.

  99. Digital (DEC) had it first. by bobwyman · · Score: 1

    "Do the right thing" was commonly said to be the motto of DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) back in the early years of the computer business.

  100. OLD TO NEW by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just like Old Testament to New Testament.

    If only Jews understood it either way.

  101. Keep calm and do the right thing by alphabets · · Score: 1

    they have to do the righ thing because if they don't bet on the wrong projet in the future they to do the right thing....

    --
    My Alphabet : Skynet.