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Why Many CSS Colors Have Goofy Names (arstechnica.com)

An anonymous reader writes: Take a look at the list of named colors within the CSS Color Module Level 4. The usual suspects are there, like 'red,' 'cyan,' and 'gold,' as well as some slightly more descriptive ones: 'lightgrey,' 'yellowgreen,' and 'darkslateblue.' But there are also some really odd names: 'burlywood,' 'dodgerblue,' 'blanchedalmond,' and more. An article at Ars walks through why these strange names became part of a CSS standard. Colors have been added to the standard piece by piece over the past 30 years — here's one anecdote: "The most substantial release, created by Paul Raveling, came in 1989 with X11R4. This update heralded a slew of light neutral tones, and it was a response to complaints from Raveling's coworkers about color fidelity. ... Raveling drew these names from an unsurprising source: the (now-defunct) paint company Sinclair Paints. It was an arbitrary move; after failing to receive sanctions from the American National Standards Institute (ANSI), which issued standards for Web color properties, Raveling decided to take matters into his own hands. He calibrated the colors for his own HP monitor. 'Nuts to ANSI & "ANSI standards,"' he complained."

77 comments

  1. They could fix everything by LihTox · · Score: 5, Interesting

    by allowing user-defined colors in CSS. Not only could they offload the unwanted old names into a single stylesheet (legacycolors.css?), but it would be so much easier to adjust the color scheme of a website by changing a couple of definitions.

    But I'm just an amateur; maybe that IS a CSS feature and I've missed it?

    1. Re:They could fix everything by squiggleslash · · Score: 2, Interesting
      It isn't already a feature, and something of that nature has been wanted for a long, long, time, though not limited to colo{u}rs.

      There are a few CSS macro processors, such as SASS and Less.js, built to workaround this specific deficiency. What's amazing is that it's never been addressed by the W3C, despite being identified as a problem right from the start.

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    2. Re:They could fix everything by Fwipp · · Score: 4, Informative

      You could check out something like SASS: allows variables & some other syntax improvements, then compiles into CSS. So you can declare:

      $primary-color: #abcdef;
      div.header {
          background-color: $primary-color;
      }

    3. Re:They could fix everything by FatdogHaiku · · Score: 3, Funny

      I have to admit I would like to see Less SASS on websites...

      --
      You have the right to remain sentient. If you give up the right to remain sentient, you will be elected to public office
    4. Re:They could fix everything by OakDragon · · Score: 2

      I have to admit I would like to see Less SASS on websites...

      And less backtalk, too!

    5. Re:They could fix everything by FatdogHaiku · · Score: 1

      Backtalk? Is that a protocol to allow us to open an unannounced overlay chat window in the middle of some random CSR's desktop?
      Cause that would be nice...

      --
      You have the right to remain sentient. If you give up the right to remain sentient, you will be elected to public office
    6. Re:They could fix everything by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      CSS Variables have been an often requested feature that has fallen on deaf ears.
      CSS variables, ACTUAL inheritance and not this bullshit system we currently have, and templating. They'd all make make CSS so much better.
      Equally the ability to completely remove every inherited attribute to save having to do stupid CSS resets. (I think that is getting added though)

      Such simple features that could make working with CSS considerably easier.
      But the "structure-style-interactivity" wanks have done everything to attack any proposals to add something useful in to CSS because it does some processing stuff "that isn't visual" (despite the fact that the whole CSS animations spec does even more than generic CSS variables ever could!)

      CSS is the worst part about web development because it is just a complete disaster.
      It makes JavaScript look like those shapes you put through holes.

    7. Re:They could fix everything by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Uh, you can define them yourself, using the hexadecimal codes that image processing programs such as Photoshop also use.

      See http://www.w3schools.com/cssref/css_colors.asp

      Whether it will show up properly in every browser is another issue.

    8. Re:They could fix everything by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As an addendum, this has been the case since a very long time (before 1998, when I started writing websites). This Slashdot article really suggests that there is a problem where there is none.

    9. Re: They could fix everything by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Either you're deliberately being thick, or ... well, not.

    10. Re: They could fix everything by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wait until he learns about #define in C. Mind blown.

  2. SJW Filter needed by CajunArson · · Score: 1, Flamebait

    Dear patriarchal slimeballs who are making Slashdot a Toxic environment that is hostile to Womyn and other victim groups: We went through the list of color names and triggered on at least half of them.

    Further, the very concept of segregating and discriminating based on the white male oppressive social-construct of "color" is patently offensive.

    Censor this entire story in the name of SJ.

    --
    AntiFA: An abbreviation for Anti First Amendment.
  3. Why names at all? by johannesg · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Because "slightlydarksalmon", "mauvelikepeach" or "bananawithahintofcinnamon" is soooo much more easy to understand then a bunch of hexadecimal numbers... And then they have the gall of accusing _us_ of talking an obscure lingo :-(

    1. Re:Why names at all? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      While I'm not going to defend "papaya whip", I will say that having some standard names ("white", "red", "lightblue", "darkgreen") is useful when throwing together something quick. "darkorange" is what it says on the tin, but #FF8C00 needs a bit of thought to figure out what color it is.* I will agree that anything outside dark/light/normal variants of "standard" colors and perhaps a few pastels is stretching it, though.

      (* Cue nerds reporting that they can interpret RGB triples in their sleep. - You're the exception rather than the rule, guys. (You truly are gods among (wo)men.) Consider your ego suitably inflated for your valuable talent, and keep in mind that the rest of us mere mortals aren't as well gifted.)

    2. Re: Why names at all? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're the exception rather than the rule, guys.

      Um, no. RGB. Red, green, blue. A lot of the first, less of the latter, none of the last. I. e., reddish orange. A lad in kindergarten could figure that one out.

    3. Re:Why names at all? by gzuckier · · Score: 1

      Because "slightlydarksalmon", "mauvelikepeach" or "bananawithahintofcinnamon" is soooo much more easy to understand then a bunch of hexadecimal numbers... And then they have the gall of accusing _us_ of talking an obscure lingo :-(

      how about shartreuse? and no, I didn't typo or misspell.

      --
      Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
  4. Re:I shat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The company will be unhappy about having to clean their dime again...

  5. who care? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    it's just colors. better than rbg(255,255,255). They could fix this by changing the color names and just allow browsers to have legacy support for old color name but it really doesn't matter.

  6. No one uses color names by xxxJonBoyxxx · · Score: 5, Funny

    No one uses color names
    It's all RGB these days
    No one gives a shit
    Burma Shave

    1. Re:No one uses color names by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So what color is Burma Shave?

    2. Re:No one uses color names by narcc · · Score: 1

      #FFFFE7

  7. paint! by tanimislam · · Score: 0

    Have any of you gone to a hardware or home improvement store? Lowe's or Home Depot? Do you recall the goofy names given to paint? There's your answer: CSS color names = paint color names!

    1. Re:paint! by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 1

      Heck, I got better than that...Games Workshop model paints! So which do you want, Warpstone Glow, Stormvermin Fur, or Leadbelcher?

    2. Re:paint! by jafiwam · · Score: 1

      Have any of you gone to a hardware or home improvement store? Lowe's or Home Depot? Do you recall the goofy names given to paint? There's your answer: CSS color names = paint color names!

      Next time you go, check out what the different paint manufacturers do with those color names....

    3. Re:paint! by gzuckier · · Score: 1

      Have any of you gone to a hardware or home improvement store? Lowe's or Home Depot? Do you recall the goofy names given to paint? There's your answer: CSS color names = paint color names!

      Next time you go, check out what the different paint manufacturers do with those color names....

      Of course, they tell you that if you want more than one container of a specific defined color you probably would do well to mix the various containers together because even two batches spat out consecutively by their automated tinting machine won't be exactly the same. As you may also find if you have occasion to have some portion of your automobile repainted with the exact same color defined by the manufacturer, only to see that it is distinctly different. And not because the original has weathered, that's another issue.

      --
      Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
  8. So who... by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 2

    ...is Blanche Dalmond?

    1. Re:So who... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1
    2. Re:So who... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      She's a character from the famous Kentucky Williams novel, "A Traincar Called Longing".

  9. Some not so odd by Nidi62 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    "dodgerblue" of course refers to the LA Dodgers. Interestingly enough, according to Wikipedia, the color itself is not used on the uniforms of the Dodgers but is used throughout the stadium. Personally I pictured more of a darker blue than an azure because I assumed it was the color found on the uniforms, but I immediately made the connection between the color name and the baseball team.

    --
    The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
    1. Re:Some not so odd by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I immediately made the connection between the color name and the baseball team.

      Meanwhile in the rest of the world, we were just informed (by you) that there is a Baseball team called Dodgers in the first place...

    2. Re:Some not so odd by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      dodgerblue4 is my favourite colour (and I'm not joking!) I'm afraid that makes me terribly lame...

    3. Re:Some not so odd by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And just like that, GP's world views where shattered, when he found that there is life outside the US.

  10. Other than rebeccapurple... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I believe all of these color names existed in CSS Level 3 or earlier except for `rebeccapurple` which actually has a very touching story: http://codepen.io/trezy/post/honoring-a-great-man

  11. Doesn't this come down from X server color names? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Back from a million years ago, I remember that color names used within X were similarly named. Wouldn't it make sense that the CSS standards came down from this?

  12. CSS? by Darinbob · · Score: 4, Insightful

    These colors existed before the web, no? Weren't they the same as in X Windows?

    1. Re:CSS? by drinkypoo · · Score: 5, Informative

      These colors existed before the web, no? Weren't they the same as in X Windows?

      Yeah, that's what the summary almost says. You can google for rgb.txt to see more.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    2. Re:CSS? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, it is pretty stupid.

      Hell, weird color names have always been a bit of a standard.
      It pre-dates computers by several centuries.
      Artists love coming up with silly names.

    3. Re:CSS? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Why google when /usr/share/X11/rgb.txt exists?

    4. Re:CSS? by jrumney · · Score: 1

      The summary says, paraphrasing, that he made them in 1989 for X11R4 despite the anti-web organization ANSI trying to block it. I never heard of that browser though, so I don't know if we can trust the summary.

    5. Re:CSS? by jrumney · · Score: 1

      Or Google whether ANSI was really in charge of issuing Web color standards in 1989.

    6. Re:CSS? by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      This is why it's such a weird article/summary. The web didn't even exist in 1989. The color table has so extremely little relationship to CSS. Plus the majority of Slashdot should have known of X Windows already and have probably seen similar tables of colors for decades. So the article feels vaguely patronizing and/or dumbed down, as if it were a kids program entitled "why do new standards borrow from old standards?"

    7. Re:CSS? by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      Remember kids, computers did not exist until Tim Berners Lee invented them so that his browser had somewhere to run.

  13. Obligatory XKCD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Results of a similar XKCD color survey: https://xkcd.com/color/rgb/

  14. The TL;DR by kuzb · · Score: 0

    Design by committee generally yields something meant to appease everyone, but usually winds up despised by all.

    --
    BeauHD. Worst editor since kdawson.
    1. Re:The TL;DR by jandrese · · Score: 1

      Except this was the opposite? The colors weren't designed by committee, they were organically grown over the decades(!!) by a handful of programmers who modified the X11 rgb.txt file. Then the CSS committee basically said "fuck it, we're not in the color business, nor do we want to pay big bucks to Pantone, so the free X11 rgb.txt file it is!"

      The only people expected to actually use those color names are students working on demo pages. In the real world everyone just expects to see the hexadecimal triplets instead.

      --

      I read the internet for the articles.
    2. Re:The TL;DR by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      Semi-short article summary:

      X11 programmers decide that people want "easy" names because hex codes are hard. These were specifically calibrated for the DEC VT24's screen.

      Later, an X11 programmer's colleagues start complaining about lacking color options in X11 (it turns out, someone does think hex codes are hard), so he adds a bunch of colors based off paint swatch names. Later that year, another programmer adds a bunch more colors with silly subjective names taken from Crayola crayons, after figuring that the use of "standard" names like "pink" or "orange" is a bad idea since monitors are calibrated wildly differently, while no one's really going to complain if "orchid" doesn't look like "orchid" on their monitor.

      Much time passes. Some web browsers start using the color names for some reason that the article glosses over, but almost no websites do and it's not part of the standards. For CSS 3, W3C decides to respect that practice by codifying the colors despite much protest and little support. More time passes, someone adds a color as a memorial to the daughter of a CSS-related programmer (not sure what that means...) who had died of brain cancer.

      And today? No one's actually using the damn things, everyone uses hex codes, but they're still there.

      That's it. Lots of hand-waving, kind of scant details, and nothing much in the way of committees until w3c got involved.

    3. Re:The TL;DR by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You missed the part where many of the normal names map to the wrong colour. This was mostly caused because the people who added the colours were programmers, not artists or designers, and they drew their names from commercial sources where names were often picked for marketing reasons.

      People here love to hate on design by committee, but here we have a prime example of a non-committee design that's nonetheless a stinking pile of dung. And the only reason we have that stupid rgb.txt file in the first place is because someone in the 80s was too inept to find a colour picker.

    4. Re:The TL;DR by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Some web browsers start using the color names for some reason that the article glosses over

      I understood this to be a result of the leading browser at the time (Mosaic) being developed on Unix. You had to have Motif to compile it yourself, but there were binaries available for most popular Unixes. Most of them didn't come with Motif, although that was beginning to change.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    5. Re:The TL;DR by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And the only reason we have that stupid rgb.txt file in the first place is because someone in the 80s was too inept to find a colour picker.

      But the real bitch is that we're still dependent on that list of colors because some people are too obstinate to let us define our OWN colors in CSS, because 'that feature doesn't belong there'. So I have to use 'magic numbers' (the hex codes) all over the place OR use a preprocessor, because of somebody else's idea of language purity.

  15. Re:Doesn't this come down from X server color name by omnichad · · Score: 1

    If you read the summary:

    The most substantial release, created by Paul Raveling, came in 1989 with X11R4

  16. My xterms use them... by mi · · Score: 1

    Yep. And I have macros here (dating to the prior millennium) for things like xterm -bg navajowhite -fg midnightblue, etcaetera. Some things don't need changing.

    --
    In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    1. Re: My xterms use them... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A background lighter than the foreground? You monster!

      Although I have to admit I like that one.

  17. CRAYONS!!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    'nuff said.

    1. Re:CRAYONS!!!! by ebh · · Score: 1

      "Flesh"?

    2. Re:CRAYONS!!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The crayons of my youth had pretty awesome names. There was "Leather Black", "Ripped Denim Blue", "Groupie Lipstick Red", "Skin Flesh", "Hairspray Blond", and "Tight Shiny Purple".

  18. Just remember ... by PPH · · Score: 1

    ... fuchsia is just gay for purple.

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
    1. Re:Just remember ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'll try and remember that in fuchsia.

    2. Re:Just remember ... by neminem · · Score: 1

      I read that as, "fuschia is mostly straight, but is attracted to purple anyway, despite both being male", which is far more entertaining a parse than what was meant.

      There's probably already a rule 34 of that out there somewhere, anthropomorphized abstract concepts of colors screwing. >.>

    3. Re:Just remember ... by locoluis · · Score: 1

      No.

      Fuchsia is the name of a flower, named after German botanist Leonard Fuchs. It's also the name for a specific subset of purple, fully saturated and roughly halfway between red and blue.

      Magenta is essentially the same color; it was named so to celebrate the the French and Sardinian Army victory at the Battle of Magenta near the Italian town of the same name.

      Purple is the name for the set of colors between red and either violet or blue depending on who you ask. Either way, it's a larger set of colors.

      And assigning anthropocentric meanings to individual colors is akin to numerology and astrology, i.e., total bullshit.

  19. Re:Preparing you for marriage by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Warning: none of us outside US of A knows WTF you're talking about.
    Gridiron is second only to AFL or Gaellic Football for making people think "WTF is that?"

  20. Probably... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... for the same reason that genes tend to have "silly" (or arbitrary) names. hERG, a significant problem in drug design, refers to the "Human-Ether-a-go-go related gene".

  21. Re: Preparing you for marriage by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wooosh. THAT'S THE POINT.

    If you don't know that nobody outside USA knows that MLB is baseball not gridiron then don't reply.

  22. With the advent of 32 bit color and sRGB by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...color names are kind of pointless. I gather that outfits like Microsoft and tv makers have been developing standards with higher gamuts than sRGB and hopefully better fidelity rather than just overly saturated color. I would assume HTML 5.x is going to take advantage of those new standards if they aren't already. In the meantime, if you want a pretty good approximation of a particular color, express it as a 24 bit hexadecimal value instead of using an obscure name. Easy peasy.

    1. Re:With the advent of 32 bit color and sRGB by Blaskowicz · · Score: 1

      What is 0x0FE911, quick? I have no good idea. Well, likely some light green but I've just made it up.
      Now what's the color for caramel? ummm..

      Human issues aside, while your proposition nets a technically unambiguous color (in some circumstances at that) every one's monitor is different and few people have it calibrated, so people would use wildly different numbers for the same intended color.

  23. "chucknorris" is a olor too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    TFA completely did not mention that chucknorris is a valid color (it's a shade of red); likewise, OprahWinfrey is blue, MrT is black, and BarackObama is a faded green. (And yes, those are defined by the standard, they're not browser quirks.)

  24. Gray versus grey by Tablizer · · Score: 3, Informative

    In 1988, X11R2 arrived with the addition of three colors, including the identical shades "gray" and "grey." According to Austin-based developer Alex Sexton, discussing the colors at a JavaScript Conference last year, programmers at Hewlett-Packard couldn't remember the proper spelling (which was originally with an 'a'). Including two names, it was thought, would prevent errors.

    I looked into this once, and found that one is a UK convention and the the other a US convention (gray).

    1. Re:Gray versus grey by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I looked into this once, and found that one is a UK convention and the the other a US convention (gray).

      Strange. I always thought that "grey" is in the middle between black and white, gray is more silvery shade of old people's hair.
      I'm not native speaker though.

    2. Re:Gray versus grey by StormShaman · · Score: 1

      Although grey is slightly more common in the UK, and gray in the US, both are used pretty frequently in both places.

    3. Re:Gray versus grey by Tablizer · · Score: 2

      That's a gray area :-)

  25. These are great for programmers by ConstantineM · · Score: 0

    These are great for us technical folks.

    I'm a systems engineer; when I'm doing a new web-site, I just go to http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-colo..., and select one of the fancy names, and see how it looks.

    If it doesn't match with the rest of the colour scheme or just looks off, I scroll the list until I see another colour and name that I like.

    Better than in the old days where you had to use hex number or a palette, plus with these fancy names, you can be guaranteed that the colours would be consistent and at least somewhat maintainable.

  26. Web Languages of the World, Unite! by Tablizer · · Score: 1

    I don't know why we have 3 different client-side languages: CSS, HTML, and JavaScript. Why not unite them? HTML (or XML) can define styles, and even be a scripting language, similar to ColdFusion (but with better use of attributes). We could then use some programming to get better factoring or control of styles etc.

    Some suggest Lisp, but I have to agree Lisp is just too hard to read if the author is not really careful. (Some seem to be born with "Lisp eyes". I'm not one of them.) XML can be verbose, but is generally easier to read than Lisp for most. The block end marker having the same name as the block starter seems to help readability and make it easier to fix textual mistakes.