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NASA Chief Says Ban On Chinese Partnerships Is Temporary

Posted by samzenpus on from the play-nice dept.

An anonymous reader writes: Current head of NASA Charles Bolden has spoken out against the 4-year-old ban on collaborating with China. According to Bolden working with the Chinese is vital to the future of space exploration. Reuters reports: "The United States should include China in its human space projects or face being left out of new ventures to send people beyond the International Space Station, NASA chief Charles Bolden said on Monday. Since 2011, the U.S. space agency has been banned by Congress from collaborating with China, due to human rights issues and national security concerns. China is not a member of the 15-nation partnership that owns and operates the station, a permanently staffed research laboratory that flies about 250 miles (400 km) above Earth, but Bolden says working China will be necessary in the future."

63 comments

  1. abysmal human rights records by iggymanz · · Score: 1, Insightful

    or maybe China should stop torturing its citizens, throwing political opponents (and their spouses sometimes) into psychiatric institutions or putting under house arrest , oppressing certain minority groups, etc. etc.

    1. Re:abysmal human rights records by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      don't forget they're attacking our computer networks running critical infrastructure and are likely infesting them with backdoors. We need to stop doing business with corrupt communist governments. It has NEVER worked out well for us.

    2. Re:abysmal human rights records by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The least these stupid barbarians could do is torture outside their soil, on a Caribbean island, like civilized people.

    3. Re:abysmal human rights records by rmdingler · · Score: 2

      Clearly. It works much better if only one of the collaborating nations is ridden with corruption.

      --
      Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.

      Ernest Hemingway

    4. Re:abysmal human rights records by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Haha I C what you did there....

      Well played...well played....

      Oh wait you are not talking about the US?

    5. Re:abysmal human rights records by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 1

      China can't do that, otherwise the Communist Party will fall and lose all its power it has carefully built over decades. Why do you think they still keep WWII alive? As long as they keep the population mad at the Japanese, the people won't come to the conclusion that their government is a piece of shit. China has the unique position of being a power that is completely safe. They have no real enemies and nobody will ever invade them because they're too big to digest. So the only threat is their own people.

      Chinese leaders have of course read the Big Four classics of Chinese literature. In these, kingdoms are called into existence and swept away in revolt on a single page. The Communist Party knows it is on one of these pages. The only thing that matters is that they are not swept away like all the others. They'll do whatever it takes to stay in power because they've seen the alternative. And frankly, some of these leaders who were overthrown were total idiots. Communists are nothing if not the compete opposite of total idiots.

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    6. Re:abysmal human rights records by AK+Marc · · Score: 0

      So they are no better than us, and it really pisses us off. We do torture, and McCarthyism was quite similar to many of the other complaints. They treat Tibetans better than we treated the natives.

      --
      Learn to love Alaska
    7. Re:abysmal human rights records by Rick+in+China · · Score: 2, Informative

      You could replace China with America, there, and it would be fine.

      Drone strikes on own citizens, arrests without charge for unlimited time for citizens mostly deemed to be a particular race or ethnic group (oppressing certain minority groups), awesome politics.. or how about the prison industrial complex tossing people away for decades for non-violent crimes under mandatory sentencing laws? It's all good in the US, tho, right?

    8. Re:abysmal human rights records by drinkypoo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yeah, they should torture its citizens the way we do it (solitary confinement) and manipulate politics the way we do it (through the media, and institutionalized vote fraud) and oppress only the minorities we oppress, etc. etc.

      I mean, I'm with you on China, but we should clean our own house first

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    9. Re:abysmal human rights records by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1

      Found the asshole!

      Seriously, every time someone points out something bad about another country, some asshole comes out and goes: "b.b.b.b.ut the USA does it too!"

    10. Re:abysmal human rights records by AmiMoJo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Maybe the US should stop torturing people, oppressing certain minority groups, fix the corruption in its politics etc. All countries have problems, and one of the best ways to address them is to work with them on neutral projects like space exploration so that there can be a cultural exchange. All the time the two cultures are seen as incompatible and unable to work together, it is easy to reject ideas about human rights as something western and non-universal.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    11. Re: abysmal human rights records by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Because most Americans are smug self-righteous assholes who despite all evidence to the contrary continue to believe they are right and everyone else on earth is wrong...

    12. Re:abysmal human rights records by allcoolnameswheretak · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Unfortunately this is not butthurt, apologetic behaviour. There is some truth to that.
      In other developed countries, e.g. Western Europe, we didn't torture people (waterboarding, electrocution, solitary confinement). We don't have an extrajudicial concentration camp for "terrorists" where innocent people are being held for years without hope of justice (Guantanamo). We don't have police killing minorities on a regular basis. We don't bomb and declare war on other nations, spreading chaos and desaster across whole regions, at the whim of a leader (GW Bush's illegal war in Iraq). We are not involved in a huge, paranoid mass surveillance scheme against everyone and everything, including our own citizens...

    13. Re:abysmal human rights records by wooppp · · Score: 1

      Don't help Nazi China. You will regret.

    14. Re:abysmal human rights records by wooppp · · Score: 2

      May be China should just give pop vote to the people.

    15. Re:abysmal human rights records by dj245 · · Score: 1

      May be China should just give pop vote to the people.

      Why? The US doesn't have a popular vote for the most important positions. The people can't be trusted.

      --
      Even those who arrange and design shrubberies are under considerable economic stress at this period in history.
    16. Re:abysmal human rights records by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or maybe we should end our designation of China as being a favored trading partner and just pull all our production out of there. The only reason China has a viable space program is because we (The U.S.) has pumped so much money into their economy that they can have one.

    17. Re:abysmal human rights records by tnk1 · · Score: 1

      Apples and oranges. The Tibetians, for the most part, did not resist at all and there was a history of Tibet being associated with China.

      The Natives in America were ultimately beaten and dispossessed, but while the fight may have seen their inevitable defeat in the long term, it was not at all one-sided in terms of tactical victories and even savagery.

      If the Tibetians and Chinese had the same history, I think you might see a much different treatment of the Tibetans. There is no indication from history that the Chinese are any more loath to use extreme measures against those they consider a threat. In some senses, they would consider tactics like that to be practical, if they had deemed them necessary.

    18. Re: abysmal human rights records by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sometimes, that is true. But sometimes I hear that argument when people in the US are responding to questions about why we don't act like the Europeans, for instance.

      The reason for not acting like Europeans isn't that we're right or they are wrong, it is because "Europeans are doing it" or "join the rest of the world" is an insufficient argument as to why the US needs to value the same things or have the same laws. Right or wrong, it sounds more like peer pressure than an actual argument.

    19. Re:abysmal human rights records by tnk1 · · Score: 2

      Other developed countries have done all of those things and more. They just happened to do them in the past. And not even the distant past.

      I'm not sure where you are getting any of that, or do you believe that history doesn't extend back farther than fifty years or so?

    20. Re: abysmal human rights records by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      they were invaded by lots of barbarians, including your ilk until mao put an end to it.

      the chinese people have not forgotten this.

    21. Re: abysmal human rights records by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the only reason for the american and russian space program is the wehrmacht.

    22. Re:abysmal human rights records by iggymanz · · Score: 1

      The only "torturing" I'm aware of was questionable interrogation techniques of those caught in the field hanging with terrorists. maybe they shouldn't have been best buddies with those killing people and blowing up shit, then they wouldn't be in Gitmo getting their underwear pulled down and face covered with wet towels, etc. Mild stuff compared to what China does to innocent citizens.

      Wrong, we never should have done any trade or projects with China whatsover, it's hurt our own workforce and economy to force us to "compete" with place that has no regulations on safety and no value on human life.

    23. Re:abysmal human rights records by allcoolnameswheretak · · Score: 1

      Okay... so all of that is fine, because it has happened in the past?

      So you won't mind if I whack your wife over the head with a wooden club and take her into my cave, because it has happened in the past? What kind of argument is that?

    24. Re:abysmal human rights records by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      Could you clarify? The Tibetans deserved it because they didn't mind too much, since they didn't fight. Or Native Americans deserved it because they did fight?

      I'm unclear on you stance as to which is the apple and which is the orange. You claim they aren't comparable, then compare them. But never state which is worse, which was my statement you are correcting, so I'd assume you'd have some opinion on that otherwise, why bother to post.

      --
      Learn to love Alaska
    25. Re:abysmal human rights records by tnk1 · · Score: 1

      I did not compare them. I acknowledged that they had a superficial similarity (ie. people oppressed to some degree by invading conquerors), but that there are specific differences which caused the actual situations to differ. Then I discussed them very briefly. Since it was too briefly to make an impression, here's the specifics.

      If the Chinese and Tibetans had fought a two hundred year war for domination of the Chinese mainland or even just Tibet, the result would probably be exactly the same as the natives in the US had to deal with. That is not what happened, however.

      No one is stating that the Tibetans didn't mind, but they were rolled over pretty quickly and relatively painlessly. There wasn't really much opportunity for atrocity on either side. The natives in the US were not rolled over quickly or easily. And they definitely fought back on occasion savagely. They gave as good as they got. Justified or not, that sort of back and forth for a long period is going to generate serious ill feeling and extreme tactics on both sides.

      The Chinese-Tibet conflict is not marked in that manner. Nobody's Chinese grandpappy was scalped by some Tibetan warrior, so there's no real hate to generate the same policies. The Chinese oppress the Tibetans to some degree, but atrocity would not serve Chinese interests for a more or less docile Tibetan population. While some people, particularly in the West, might want Tibet freed, there is really no question of Chinese control over the entirety of Tibet. There is no constant simmering conflict which is periodically breaking out into no holds barred warfare.

      Point is, you're comparing the situation of the Tibetans to the treatment of natives in the US which differs in both background, scale, and severity. The history behind those conflicts has significant differences which directly inform how the two situations are treated. There is no reason to believe that the sort of situation that Tibet is in right now would have any cause for the Chinese to act in the same manner as the Americans did with natives.

    26. Re:abysmal human rights records by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The only "torturing" I'm aware of was questionable interrogation techniques of those caught in the field hanging with terrorists. maybe they shouldn't have been best buddies with those killing people and blowing up shit, then they wouldn't be in Gitmo getting their underwear pulled down and face covered with wet towels, etc. Mild stuff compared to what China does to innocent citizens.

      I'm not even aware the Chinese have done any of the above you have proudly taken credit for.
      Serious question (only because you sound like a American homey), you have any citations to share?

    27. Re:abysmal human rights records by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      Read the OP. The "oppression of minorities" always comes back to some religious extremists, or Tibet. I was addressing the "oppression of minorities" as a fallacy. Oppression of everyone is equal, though some minorities complain more than others.

      --
      Learn to love Alaska
  2. NASA needs another vendor by mschaffer · · Score: 2

    NASA needs another vendor (now that Russia and the US aren't on the best terms) for heavy lifting.
    So, why not work with another country with questionable politics?

    1. Re:NASA needs another vendor by ganjadude · · Score: 2

      or better yet why are we not working with other american companies to do the work?

      --
      have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
    2. Re:NASA needs another vendor by jonwil · · Score: 2

      The US needs to stop relying on foreign countries for heavy lift rocket capability, manned access to space and their other space needs and fund NASA to the level required to develop a reliable usable 100% US heavy lift capability (whether that be the SpaceX Falcon rocket, the Atlas or Delta rocket using a US-built engine instead of the Russian one or something else entirely) and fund the Commercial Crew program to completly eliminate the need for the USA to book seats on Soyuz to get into space.

      If the billions of dollars spent on expensive toys for the military that they dont actually need (F-35 for example) had instead been given to NASA and its contractors and entities, NASA could have replaced all uses of Russian hardware in the US space program by now.

    3. Re:NASA needs another vendor by hackwrench · · Score: 1

      If the billions of dollars spent on expensive toys for the military that they don't actually need (F-35 for example) had instead been given to NASA and its contractors and entities, NASA could have built the military things the military could actually use.

    4. Re:NASA needs another vendor by antdude · · Score: 1

      I haven't been paying attention to the world news lately. What now with Russia and USA? Another cold war?

      --
      Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
    5. Re:NASA needs another vendor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Keep you friends close but your enemies even closer, because that way you know what they are doing.

    6. Re:NASA needs another vendor by peragrin · · Score: 1

      because if they choose an american vendor then each part must have parts made in each state.

      Why was nasa so expensive? because they couldn't source parts from states and companies they wanted to but had to source parts only from select vendors that congress choose.

      Get congress out of the line item budget for NASA and their costs would have dropped by 30% at least. Actually get congress out of the line item budget for a lot of things and costs will go way down.

      --
      i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
    7. Re:NASA needs another vendor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually get congress out of the line item budget for a lot of things and costs will go way down.

      Considering one of their primary duties is budgeting, if you removed them from the process all line items would drop to n/a.

    8. Re:NASA needs another vendor by rmdingler · · Score: 1

      I haven't been paying attention to the world news lately.

      Sort of like watching the soap operas, eh? you can miss a few episodes , tune in, and still understand the gist of it.

      What now with Russia and USA? Another cold war?

      Let's hope. A hot war is ever so much more involving personal sacrifice and inconvenience.

      --
      Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.

      Ernest Hemingway

  3. National Security? by Enigma2175 · · Score: 1

    National Security? China already broke in and stole anything that was even marginally interesting, and they still have root. Might as well get the changes to the design back from them...

    --

    Enigma

  4. I thought they Already Were... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I saw this documentary that showed a Chinese rocket resupplying The Hermes.

  5. slashdot = stagnated by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "working China will be necessary in the future"

    looks like china already slashdot working editor

    1. Re:slashdot = stagnated by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      No, no, you got that wrong. He simply means that China has to be properly reshaped in the future to suit his needs. It needs to be worked very hard.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
  6. The Martian by pr0t0 · · Score: 1

    Well, they had better get this worked out soon. We'll need their help to get Mark Watney back!

    --
    I'm sorry, but your opinion seems to be wrong.
    1. Re:The Martian by xvan · · Score: 1

      I wouldn't put my thrust on that.

  7. ban US by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Can we ban the US? I'm sick of their self-righteous attitude.

    USA is a bigger security problem than China.

  8. Having spent time in China... by MakersDirector · · Score: -1

    Having spent time in China myself, I'm indifferent about it.

    China and the United States have 'depended' on eachother since the mid 1980's and this has dramatically effected both cultures. As we venture into space, commercially and militarily - aligning with China may make things easier from a budget perspective, but from a culturally respective perspective - there's some massive drawbacks to a full on partnership.

    I regard the space race as being in it's true infancy from a travel and tourism perspective, and for me, i look forward to - no - i delight in the unique possibilities a unique culture such as China brings to the table without US influence - and vice versa.

    Sure. Financially and fiscally. It's certainly more cost effective, But let's be honest here.

    With the exception of the Space Shuttle, every rocket the United States and even Russia and now India is creating looks like a giant dildo. We're leveraging the same scientific advancements and perspectives, the same machinery and engineering, and the same scientific processes to achieve the same goal.

    As a citizen - I'm a fan of choice. So when my only options for space based activities are based on science and engineering developed by one single country and then shared with all the rest with minor deviations, where, really - are my choices? I choose an original or a derivative, but invariably I have no real choice.

    Personally. I'd say no about including China on the space ventures.

    And say "Let's meet in space, you develop your own methods to get there"

    But that is if I happened to be in charge of anything but the tent and backpack and homeless lifestyle this isolationist thinking has led to.

  9. China is filled with corruption by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... Clearly. It works much better if only one of the collaborating nations is ridden with corruption ...

    Clearly the corruption criteria does not apply here since China is itself a very corrupt country

    What differentiate China from the rest is not that they are commies - them Ruskies are commies as well

    Nor that they are Asians - Japan and India are full of Asians

    Nor that they infiltrate / spy on America - Japan did that to us before before World War 2, and Israel did that to us all the time

    It must be the language ---
    The Chinese language is the only mono-syllabus language in use on the planet

    The rest, no matter if it's Japanese or Latin or Swahili, they are all poly-syllabus!

    1. Re:China is filled with corruption by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Uhhh.. you do realize "ching chang chong" is NOT actual Chinese, right?

    2. Re:China is filled with corruption by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      True, but I'm pretty sure that "ring rong ding dong ping pong" are common phrases.

  10. The one comment that makes sense by Taco+Cowboy · · Score: 0

    Have been reading all the comments and this one makes the most sense...

    ... Personally. I'd say no about including China on the space ventures.

    And say "Let's meet in space, you develop your own methods to get there"...

    Why should our land-based politics follow us out there?

    Why can't we start anew - you make yours and I make mine and if you and I happen to meet in outer space, we meet as equal

    --
    Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
  11. Haven't you heard of outsourcing, H1-B visa? by Taco+Cowboy · · Score: 1

    ... why are we not working with other american companies ...

    Don't you know that outsourcing and the H1-B Visas have become the rage nowadays?

    --
    Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
  12. What do human rights abuses have to do with NASA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I always thought it was America that bombs half the world, tortures people, shoots racial minorities, and holds people without trial. Serious double standards from US Congress, I think.

  13. Re:What do human rights abuses have to do with NAS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You forgot:
    Funds terrorists.
    Imposes US laws on other countries.
    Spies on allies.
    Drops nukes on people.

  14. Why spend it at all? by mschaffer · · Score: 1

    How about having the government not spend tons on stuff that is not needed (like the F-35 in your example) and then NOT giving the savings to NASA?
    Give taxpayers a break and help move the "Tax Freedom Day" back a few days? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    1. Re:Why spend it at all? by tnk1 · · Score: 1

      You could probably do both, if you were able to end certain programs.

  15. Seriously? by mschaffer · · Score: 1

    You do realize that NASA is the middle-man. They don't make most of the stuff they use.

  16. China has the goods on Mr Bolden by mnemotronic · · Score: 2

    Your friendly neighborhood Chinese govt has the background info on many US govt employees. Just for a sec, suppose there is something in there that, if leaked to the public at large, could cause embarrasment for Mr. Bolden and subsequently for NASA. Suppose the friendly Chinese govt contacted Mr. Bolden and "requested" his assistance in promoting cooperation between the US and the friendly Chinese govt. Just a crazy theory. Obviously cant be true. The friendly Chinese govt are everyones bestest friend in the whole world.

    --
    The Russians have won. They have made the world a cesspool of distrust, greed, fear and hate.
  17. Good policy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Seriously, given China's wanton industrial espionage, it is nice to see a niche sector avoid falling to the false lies of the thieving chinese.

  18. Or just maybe... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    NASA is strapped for cash (as has been the norm for the last 50+ years), and any nation that can help is welcome to share the financial burden (especially if they are going to space anyway).

    Just a thought.....

  19. Here's the real reason for the ban: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We are embarrassed over our conduct during McCarthy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qian_Xuesen

  20. Two words by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Fuck China!

    1. Re: Two words by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yeah, who wants to fuck overweight people, so fuck cute chinese !

  21. Who the hell is going to save Mark Watney!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Or is this what happened in the first place that the Chinese were not included in the Mars missions?

    Dude, he is going to have to eat a lot of potatoes if we don't let China help.

  22. Support lifting the ban on collaborating w/ China by YouxueZhang · · Score: 1

    As a scientist working on lunar science, I completely support Bolden on lifting the 4-year-old ban on collaborating with China! International scientific collaboration has played an essential part in the success of American science, as well as human exploration of the solar system. Collaboration will also be the key in mankind's relay race to understand the solar system and beyond. More lunar samples soon to be returned by the Chinese lunar program will contribute significantly to our understanding of the moon.