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EU Parliament: Citizens' Rights Still Endangered By Mass Surveillance

New submitter hughankers writes with this slice of a press release from the European Parliament:: Too little has been done to safeguard citizens' fundamental rights following revelations of electronic mass surveillance, say MEPs in a resolution voted on Thursday. They urge the EU Commission to ensure that all data transfers to the US are subject to an "effective level of protection" and ask EU member states to grant protection to Edward Snowden, as a "human rights defender". Parliament also raises concerns about surveillance laws in several EU countries.

This resolution, approved by 342 votes to 274, with 29 abstentions, takes stock of the (lack of) action taken by the European Commission, other EU institutions and member states on the recommendations set out by Parliament in its resolution of 12 March 2014 on the electronic mass surveillance of EU citizens, drawn up in the wake of Edward Snowden's revelations.

53 comments

  1. Make a law, you numbnuts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Until it is illegal for national governments to spy on their people, OF COURSE citizens rights are still endangered! Make a law, make spying on Europeans illegal, set severe minimum penalties for violations.

    1. Re:Make a law, you numbnuts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The main excuse they use for the surveillance is "terrorism". Yet at the same time, they're pulling in millions of people from countries full of believers in a violent religion that vow to exterminate non-believing infidels, and are responsible for the vast majority of terrorist attacks throughout human history.

      Nothing but liars in government today. The toilet needs to be flushed and filled with fresh water.

    2. Re:Make a law, you numbnuts by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1

      Well, one would want a proper, justified warrant to search all this online data, anyway. It's a struggle to get even that.

      Without it, imagine what a guy like Putin would do observing political enemies. It's bad enough where warrants even exist, there is no technological barrier, or even recording system, stop or even note the abuses.

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    3. Re: Make a law, you numbnuts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Many governments require warrants and court approval to spy on their own citizens at home and abroad and citizens of other countries while they are in the country that wishes to do the spying.

    4. Re:Make a law, you numbnuts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They're not worried about the governments spying on their own people here, they're pretending to be concerned about other countries spying on them.

      OF COURSE other countries are going to spy on them, that what other countries do. Every nation on Earth has some form of intelligence service. What the hell do they expect?

    5. Re:Make a law, you numbnuts by MobSwatter · · Score: 0

      The real reason is commerce and if you pay attention you get some sort of advertising based on things they have found out about you, flushing the toilet would mean revolt, but in the US the winner of such a civil war is stuck with the check on what the central banksters have done to the country and no one is really interested in that. The only way for the US is to start prosecuting on the pozi scheme but the current occupant in the owned oval office just sold out what little sovereignty the US had on the TPP deal just after shoveling a broken medical system down everyone's throat on tax day. That observation tends to point to the aspect that he is really a closet case Nazi over big pharma bitch. It is not just gubbermint that needs the toilet flushed, religion over all today should be ruled a crime against humanity or reduced to believer or non believer attributes with stiff penalties for infringing on rights of each other.

    6. Re:Make a law, you numbnuts by Lennie · · Score: 2

      The people that came from countries like Syria actually came to Europe to flee extremism (and war and no jobs and no safety, etc.).

      --
      New things are always on the horizon
    7. Re:Make a law, you numbnuts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Those from Syria flee from war - sure. But they are only 1 of 3 that tries to get into Europe these days. There are also a lot of others from Africa and the middle east, who see that things are 'better' in Europe than in their failed countries. They just don't get that these failures are their own and theirs to fix - and that the way of living they try to import could fail Europe the same way - if they all were allowed in. Which they are not, lots of people are returned.

      Unfortunately, figuring out who is a real refugee and who is just attempting to leave poverty behind is tricky. There is an unofficial easy test though: A real refugee is happy to find peace - even if they're offered poor conditions, lots of waiting etc. Escaping war is good, even if poverty is what you get. The fake refugees complain when they don't immediately get an 'European' standard of living. And so they piss off everyone.

    8. Re:Make a law, you numbnuts by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      The problem is, if history is any indicator, then that chopping off some heads and getting rid of a government doesn't really solve much. All you get is another, at least as bad, asshole on top.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    9. Re:Make a law, you numbnuts by Opportunist · · Score: 2

      Weeeeeelll..... the failure there just MIGHT also have to do a teeny weeny little bit with us propping up dictators that hand us cheap oil in exchange for the tools to oppress their people.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    10. Re:Make a law, you numbnuts by amiga3D · · Score: 1

      Nah. It's not about oil. Bush Sr. said so. I heard him, it was sometime after the "Read my lips, no new taxes!" pledge.

    11. Re: Make a law, you numbnuts by amiga3D · · Score: 1

      Warrants! How quaint. No one reads that old dusty Constitution nowadays anyway.

    12. Re:Make a law, you numbnuts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, sure they did. Look where they all went, to countries that had the most free shit, not just the nearest "non-extreme" country. You overload a country with a massive number of people that just came from a failed country, and the same thing is going to repeat.

    13. Re:Make a law, you numbnuts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm only asking that just laws be enforced, not the crooked ones they passed to protect themelves. Those in power who are working against the people (pretty much most of them now) need to be removed from office, charged for their crimes, and new representatives of the people be voted in. Right now, they're all answering to corporations and globalists.

      If you wait too long to fix things, it'll get bloody, fast, and that's when you get the new bad asshole.

    14. Re:Make a law, you numbnuts by AutodidactLabrat · · Score: 1

      Those in power who are working against the people (pretty much most of them now) need to be removed from office, charged for their crimes, and new representatives of the people be voted in

      that's the point isn't it?
      Without entirely new mechanisms for keeping wealth from owning the Corporate Money Machine, the new thieves just replace the old thieves.
      I give you the Contract ON America for example
      The Party of the 10% came to change the world, and stayed to keep the change.

    15. Re:Make a law, you numbnuts by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      His lips moved? So, in other words, he lied.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    16. Re:Make a law, you numbnuts by NostalgiaForInfinity · · Score: 1

      Until it is illegal for national governments to spy on their people, OF COURSE citizens rights are still endangered!

      You prove again that utter stupidity is indistinguishable from advanced sarcasm.

    17. Re: Make a law, you numbnuts by NostalgiaForInfinity · · Score: 1

      Many governments require warrants and court approval to spy on their own citizens at home and abroad

      Many countries require warrants and court approval for police investigations.

      Most countries have national security and other exceptions for spying on their own citizens. European governments have been spying on their citizens under such exceptions since their founding, and they show no sign of changing those policies.

    18. Re:Make a law, you numbnuts by amiga3D · · Score: 1

      Actually most of the time when Bush Sr. spoke he never really said anything. He'd talk for hours and not one thing of any substance, The one time he got emphatic it was a fucking lie though. I got the feeling at the time he meant it but he just didn't have the balls to follow through.

    19. Re:Make a law, you numbnuts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Less taxes, means less taxes for the super rich, not you and me.

      At this stage, they are just sipphoning from Gov's coffers and the environment until there's nothing left to suck dry.

      Captcha: autopsy

    20. Re:Make a law, you numbnuts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The old cheap oil canard is getting stale. Oil prices are market driven and there are quite a few countries outside the ME who are major suppliers. The US now has the means to surpass SA in the amount of oil produced. The US imports very little oil from the ME to begin with. And "propping up" dictators created a relatively stable region where chaos rains supreme today. And "propping up" dictators consisted of not invading or sanctioning other countries because of a countries internal problems. As a matter of fact people have been pushing the US to stop meddling in other countries internal affairs which would give tyrants and religious hardliners the room they need to run their countries the way they see fit even if that includes killing any citizen that dares voice a complaint. The biggest problem in the ME is a sever lack of leaders capable of balancing the forces within their country in an effort to make their countries less of a hell hole. The last competent leader in the Arab world was Sadat and of course he was assassinated for his efforts by the Muslim Brotherhood. The ME has two types of leaders, Military strongman or religious fanatic, and they both create more problems than they fix by a wide margin although I am hard pressed to think of any problem they have actually solved. It also requires the regular citizens to contribute to fixing their problems instead of running away to Europe or any other country willing to take them in. If the general populace is not willing to fight for their country then why should anyone else? And the amount of death and chaos in the ME is directly proportional to the lessening amount of US involvement. As the US recedes from the ME the world may realize that US involvement is not always a bad thing. Things are going to get much worse before anything even starts to get better in the ME. There is no viable plans that can fix the problems in the ME outside of turning a couple select desert areas in the ME into molten glass and I am not sure even that would get their attention. The world leaders can talk themselves blue but in the end they will not be able to produce a plan to end the ongoing chaos and violence throughout the ME.

  2. By what authority by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There is no guaranteed right of privacy.

    1. Re:By what authority by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well maybe, just maybe it's time we get that right, or worst case TAKE IT.

    2. Re:By what authority by amiga3D · · Score: 1

      We're considering as a set of those "unalienable" rights. I guess the founders of the USA never really thought stuff like that would be necessary since they put those amendments 4 and 10 into the Constitution. I guess they didn't count on corrupt judges on the Supreme Court re-interpreting the Constitution to mean what they'd like it to mean. Kind of like the definition of is.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

    3. Re:By what authority by whoever57 · · Score: 1

      Kind of like the definition of is.

      In that case, Bill Clinton was right. The question was "Is there a relationship...", it should have been "is there now, or was there ever ...". But a better example of the how the Supreme Court has modified the plain text of the constitution is how the interstate commerce clause is interpreted. The court is quite open about this: it claims that the Federal government can regulate anything that affects interstate commerce. But the word "affects" does not appear in the clause. An example of this: My pharmacist buys the drugs that he stocks from an out of state wholesaler. I then buy from him. Which is interstate commerce? According to the Supreme Court, both are. Or the idea that plants grown in my back yard that I might consume are interstate commerce. Again, the Supreme Court allows the Feds to regulate this because it "affects" interstate commerce. But that's not what the clause says.

      The interesting thing is that it is generally the "originalists" who are the one who read the word "affects" into the Constitution, showing that these judges are highly influenced by their own biases, perhaps more so than the laws that they are supposed to interpret.

      --
      The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
    4. Re:By what authority by kwoff · · Score: 1

      I modded 'Overrated' by accident, posting to make it go away...

    5. Re:By what authority by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I bumped it up +1

    6. Re:By what authority by amiga3D · · Score: 1

      Oh come on. Is means is. If the question was wrong that doesn't make any difference about the definition of is. Is has a very simple definition. I do agree with the rest of your comment though.

    7. Re:By what authority by dryeo · · Score: 1

      You have to be careful as words do change their meanings, sometimes drastically, in the course of a few centuries. In the case of "is", the meaning seems to have been stable for the last 4+ centuries. Other words not so much, take the etymology od "nice",

      late 13c., "foolish, stupid, senseless," from Old French nice (12c.) "careless, clumsy; weak; poor, needy; simple, stupid, silly, foolish," from Latin nescius "ignorant, unaware," literally "not-knowing," from ne- "not" (see un-) + stem of scire "to know" (see science). "The sense development has been extraordinary, even for an adj." [Weekley] -- from "timid" (pre-1300); to "fussy, fastidious" (late 14c.); to "dainty, delicate" (c. 1400); to "precise, careful" (1500s, preserved in such terms as a nice distinction and nice and early); to "agreeable, delightful" (1769); to "kind, thoughtful" (1830).

      From http://www.etymonline.com/inde...

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
    8. Re:By what authority by whoever57 · · Score: 1

      Oh come on. Is means is.

      "Is" means present tense. Now, currently. Bill Clinton was asked "Is there a relationship". He replied "no" and later, when accused of perjury on this point, by making the statement about the definition of "is", he was really pointing out either the deficiency of the question put to him, or the questioner's understanding of "is". The relationship was in the past, not current, so the correct answer to "is there a relationship" was "no".

      --
      The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
    9. Re: By what authority by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The right of the people to be secure in their effects

  3. You won't ever stop them by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

    It's too easy to spy and collect/store information without anybody knowing. The only way to deal with it is to make sure what they have can't be used against you. Also, let's do more spying on them.

    --
    “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
  4. EU Commission is tainted by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Belgium was one of the surveillance targets, and EU Commission is therefore likely tainted. Lobbying against the EU Commission, the US would be armed with all the EU talking points, detailed backgrounds on the Commissioners, researchers etc. The data they had researched, the people they had met (co-traveller from the phones), the places they had gone, the companies they interviewed.

    That influence help them negotiate and leverage people, but it also helps leverage the *choice* of the person for a particular role. In other words, the Commissioners and their staff are also chosen in a tainted selection process.

    They've appointed Juncker now, (Barosso was a US tool). But every meeting he has with people, every paper, ever email will likely be in US hands, even if Juncker is less controlled than Barosso was.

    There could be no discussions in the EU on how to push for privacy that the US wouldn't know about in micro detail, and be able to head off with leverage.

    Isn't it funny? The UK and EU and more spied on by NSA than Russia and China? And those countries spy agencies and politicians helped spy on their own people to create that situation.

    http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/nsa-spied-on-european-union-offices-a-908590.html

    Fucking traitors in the donut, helping US spy on EU, even though EU is part of the legislative hierarchy of the UK, and US is not.

  5. Ignoring sticks in own eyes by O('_')O_Bush · · Score: 1

    The U.S. is a big target because of high profile leaks exposing the programs, but it is pretty obvious given the level of cyber intelligence Intel shared between major world powers that every developed nation has similar programs.

    The feigned outrage is especially hypocritical with the E.U. since the world leader in mass surveillance, the U.K., is a member. They not only have mass cyber surveillance, but their population willingly submits to mass video surveillance as well.

    --
    while(1) attack(People.Sandy);
    1. Re:Ignoring sticks in own eyes by jez9999 · · Score: 1

      The feigned outrage is especially hypocritical with the E.U. since the world leader in mass surveillance, the U.K., is a member.

      Hopefully not for too much longer.

    2. Re:Ignoring sticks in own eyes by NostalgiaForInfinity · · Score: 1

      This.

      And I think the obsession of European media and European governments over US surveillance serves three purposes: (1) to distract Europeans from domestic issues, (2) to make Europeans believe that compared to the US, things are pretty good, and (3) to pass legislation that forces data of European citizens to stay within Europe where it is easier for European spy agencies to get at.

    3. Re:Ignoring sticks in own eyes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Considering that the EU countries had the US do most of the dirty work and just feed back the relevant data, why should they _NOT_ be targeting the transfer of personal data to the US?

      Solving problems seldomly happen in a single step, despite what most people think.

    4. Re:Ignoring sticks in own eyes by NostalgiaForInfinity · · Score: 1

      Considering that the EU countries had the US do most of the dirty work and just feed back the relevant data, why should they _NOT_ be targeting the transfer of personal data to the US?

      Because going through the US is a big hassle and US intelligence agencies generally only give out information when actual terrorism is involved (not because they care about the privacy of EU citizens, but because they can't be bothered). EU governments want much more detail and much easier access to private information, to prosecute anything from tax evasion to inconvenient speech.

      Solving problems seldomly happen in a single step, despite what most people think.

      But making a step in the wrong direction doesn't get you any closer to a solution, it gets you further away.

  6. There *is* a guaranteed right to privacy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union (CFR), article 7 right to privacy, article 8, right to protection of personal data.

    That's just some of the ways the EU has jurisdiction here. It also has 2002/58/EC, 2006/24/EC, 2009/136/EC, etc etc etc.

    http://loc.gov/law/help/online_2012-007949_RPT_PART_ONE.pdf

    The danger is the people who are supposed to enforce this are turncoats.

    Why, for example, should my visit to that URL be logged for surveillance? What business is it of anyones that I researched that URL? I didn't consent to it, I use Duck Duck Go specifically to reject Google's surveillance for example. Yet turncoats in certain governments, like Theresa May, are putting in mass surveillance laws that would permit warrantless searches for that URL. Why?

    1. Re:There *is* a guaranteed right to privacy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "There *is* a guaranteed right to privacy"

      Which means little in the age of technology and physics, given that the mass of the public is technologically illiterate and using technology explicitly designed to be compromised. Look at the released docs specifically.

      NSA collaborates with tech companies to compromise hardware

    2. Re:There *is* a guaranteed right to privacy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Given how quickly they abandoned that plan for logging web history, I'm fairly sure now it was a trial balloon or a distraction. The usual trick: propose something awful, then when everybody's attention is on that, slip something a little less awful through with no opposition.

      If done right, the government trying it is seen as moderate and responsive to the views of their people for abandoning an unpopular policy, even though they had no intention of actually doing it.

      Or perhaps they did really want to do it, but weren't fully committed to it, and didn't really care if it failed. Same result either way.

  7. Pot, meet Kettle by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    No word on mass surveillance conducted by Europeans on Europeans? According to leaks, UK was even more egregious than US,

    http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2013/jun/21/gchq-cables-secret-world-communications-nsa
    http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2013/11/18/world/britains-gchq-the-brains-americas-nsa-the-money-behind-spy-alliance/

    and the information sharing with US counterparts was done not only by Google and Facebook but also by German BND with NSA.

      https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/nsa-scandal-rekindles-in-germany-with-an-ironic-twist/2015/04/30/030ec9e0-ee7e-11e4-8050-839e9234b303_story.html

    I assume these Eurocrats are done pushing for "mandatory data retention," the zombie law that keeps reviving itself in Europe which just passed in Australia? They were fine with the hypocricy of pushing for mandatory retention for government's benefit but right to be forgotten among fellow citizens: it's not ok for secrets to come back to haunt you, except when the secrets were never publicized in the first place and it's the government with its power imbalance thats haunting you and then it's fine. That was their old position. Now that they're worried about surveillance under US secret FISA courts approving front-door warrants to European's data, surely they'll be equally worried about spurious warrants within their own regime, right? Because if they are worried about the NSA's back door, that works slightly better if the data is in Europe. If foreigners moved all their damned poison data out of the US, the NSA would have no excuse to tap US infrastructure any more.

    At least the last iron curtain was built by the will of an authoritarian regime. The next one will be built by smarmy political expedience and meshes of special interests.

  8. Re:Other things to worry about... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Now more than ever, with national politicians just waiting for an excuse to ramp up the police state, the European parliament should have citizen's rights on their agenda and prevent any attempts of abusing a humanitarian crisis for fascist power-grabbing.

  9. My stupid face: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Huh, ya think? huhu.

  10. I do not live in the EU by burtosis · · Score: 1

    I am wondering if this is a change of heart brought on by the recent emergency meeting held when mp found out they themselves were being spied on.

    1. Re:I do not live in the EU by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Did Angela Merkel set you writing this?

      You do know that their indignation is just more feigned outrage for posturing and plausible deniability?

    2. Re:I do not live in the EU by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      The issues goes back to the end of 1945. The UK and US faced the issue of the Soviet Union been difficult to enter, spy on, understand or map at the time.
      So the US and UK found all the expert Germans they could without asking any background questions.
      Operation Paperclip https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
      TICOM programme https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
      and the Gehlen Organization https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
      So the US and UK soaked up a lot of skills and people with no understanding of their origins or methods. All past WW2 issues did not exist.
      Over the years and decades the same US/UK methods of total collection turned into and on the EU to find left and right threats to EU politics and policy.
      Generations of cleared West European staff shared their entire nations telecommunications and crypto systems with the UK and US.
      At the end of the cold war, NATO expanded eastward with the same total access requests.
      Generations of select EU staff are only happy when working with the US and UK collecting all on their own nations.
      Slowly the democratically elected politicians in the West have understood that they cannot trust their own experts, cryptographers or computer networks. Their own trusted staff are helping the UK and US first and have been for decades.
      Can the issues be fixed? The cleared EU staff are told by the US and UK they are holding back communism, fascism, national trade deal fraud, political manipulation, Russia, China all for the good of NATO.
      Democratically elected politicians really have to learn to talk to each other away from the provided secure phones, email, fax, web 2.0 like systems if they want their own policy setting ability again.
      Data transfers is just part of the collect it all and sharing back to get past local national privacy laws. Total access to EU nations on trade policy creation that counters US and UK interests is great too :)

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
  11. Do We Do IT? by JimSadler · · Score: 1

    I wonder to what degree the US does mass surveillance of people in Europe. That homeland security mentality may not be restrained by borders these days.

  12. Still endangered? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Since when is it still endangered? Aren't we past that?

  13. Still? More than ever! by gweihir · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This seems to be a concerted propaganda campaign suggesting that things are getting better. They are not. They are getting worse and worse.

    --
    Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
  14. Another non-binding resolution by manu0601 · · Score: 1

    This is another non binding resolution. The EU parliament is a fake parliament, which cannot really force the commission into doing something (I understand it could revoke it, though, but I am not sure since it never hapened)

    The EU court of justice did the hard work, though, when it stroke down the US-EU safe harbor agreement..

  15. How do we secure MPs comms from GCHQ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    With Wilson doctrine gone.

    I'm wondering how we secure UK MPs comms and data, and that of their families researches etc. from GCHQ/NSA eavesdropping now?

    We had the story about securing journalists laptops, but more critically, what to do about MPs?
    It was hypothesized that GCHQ had that role, i.e. protecting UK government business and people from outside surveillance by securing our comms. It seems the role is reversed, and loyalties reversed too.

    Which explains this:
    http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2013/12/03/parliament_heads_for_ms/

    UK Parliament migrating to Office 364 "Cloud", effectively moving the private documents of government to PRISM/NSA controlled servers. The move came *after* Snowden revelations.

    So can you imagine Parliamentary debates on any subject involving the US, where the US wouldn't take a detailed look at the UK discussions behind closed doors? All those speeches written and stored "in the cloud", trivial to read.

    You'd expect an outcry from both the Parliaments IT guys and GCHQ, but no.... strangely silent... like the fooking traitors they are.