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That "Unbreakable" Glass That's "As Strong As Steel" Isn't Either

Posted by samzenpus on from the you-keep-using-that-word dept.

TheAlexKnapp writes: A number of stories about a new paper in Scientific Reports claim that it describes an "unbreakable" glass that's as "strong as steel." In a report about the paper for Forbes, Carmen Drahl notes that these claims are exaggerated. But that doesn't mean that the researchers haven't produced a promising material. From Carmen's story: "According to their calculations, this glass performed about as well as a heavy duty commercial glass. What this report describes isn't some miracle material, but a well-above-average performing glass that seems promising on a tiny scale."

74 comments

  1. "Unbreakable" combs ain't, either by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Big fucking surprise.

    1. Re:"Unbreakable" combs ain't, either by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      who's using combs in 2015 anyway..

    2. Re: "Unbreakable" combs ain't, either by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Probably people who still have hair, cueball.

  2. Well, was it stronger than steel? by tomhath · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Was the glass stronger than steel? Here, the question is what strength means, and what was actually measured. In this case, the researchers measured the glass’s rigidity and its resistance to being pushed on by something else. In both cases, the new glass outperformed most other types of glass, but it wasn’t exactly indestructible.

    She never answered the question. Steel isn't "indestructible" either.

    1. Re:Well, was it stronger than steel? by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      Or maybe you can just test it against cheap, rusty steel? Old cans from the dump, maybe?

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    2. Re:Well, was it stronger than steel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Steel is also glass. It's not silica glass, but it's glass.

      To make glass out of any substance, first melt it, then form it, then blast-cool it. This forms a solid of that material without allowing it to form a normal crystalline solid structure. Doing this with silica sand creates a clear, but brittle, solid that is commonly used as an electrical insulator or as a rigid transparent sheet. Doing it with iron makes the iron very strong and slightly less rust-prone. Both are "glass".

    3. Re:Well, was it stronger than steel? by Holi · · Score: 2

      Amorphous metal is not glass, it has glass-like properties but that does not make it a glass.

      --
      Sorry, teleporters just kill you and then make a copy. A perfect, soul-less copy.
    4. Re:Well, was it stronger than steel? by sexconker · · Score: 2

      Harken not unto this man, for he knoweth naught of glass nor steel.

    5. Re:Well, was it stronger than steel? by dbIII · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Well, was it stronger than steel?

      Very likely yes, but that doesn't matter because nearly every glass is stronger than nearly every steel under ideal conditions. What usually matters is toughness since most glasses can't take much of an impact.

      If it's just pure load and the surface of the glass is perfectly smooth with not much in the way of internal defects then you can sit something on top of a block of glass that would damage a block of steel. In tension it's often stronger as well - unless a tiny scratch opens up into a crack and then it's going to break at a low load.
      That's why glass is used as reinforcing in "fibreglass" plastics - strong and the brittleness doesn't matter so much when the fibre diameter is about the size of a critical crack and the plastic is there to absorb the energy of impacts.

    6. Re:Well, was it stronger than steel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      "Scientifically, the term "glass" is often defined in a broader sense, encompassing every solid that possesses a non-crystalline (that is, amorphous) structure at the atomic scale and that exhibits a glass transition when heated towards the liquid state." (Wikipedia).
       
      Seems like it depends on who you're talking to and how they're used to the words being used. Apparently, some branches of science would call amorphous metal a "glass".

    7. Re:Well, was it stronger than steel? by theguyfromsaturn · · Score: 1

      What the article I read described was that the glass had a high modulus of elasticity. There was absolutely no reference to strength, or ductility, both properties that would make me call the glass "strong" or "impact resistant". It's just stiff glass. Period. By the way, almost all grades of steel have about the same modulus of elasticity, even when their strength is vastly different, so the one does not imply the other.

      --
      I like my dinosaurs feathery, and my pterosaurs hairy (or is it pycnofibery?)
    8. Re:Well, was it stronger than steel? by coldsalmon · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Glass was always "stronger" than steel in that it will take more stress without bending. Glass will just shatter, whereas steel will bend but not break. Glass has more "strength," but steel has more "toughness." An article at Popular Science explores this distinction: "Strength refers to how much force a material can take before it deforms. Toughness explains the energy required to fracture or break something." The article is from 2011, and is entitled "NEW METALLIC GLASS BEATS STEEL AS THE TOUGHEST, STRONGEST MATERIAL YET."

    9. Re:Well, was it stronger than steel? by ChrisMaple · · Score: 2

      Strength is generally taken to mean tensile strength, the force/area in tension required to rupture a material, or required to permanently deform it. Stiffness is the ratio strain/stress, usually quantified as Young's modulus. Neither is the same as toughness, nor as hardness

      --
      Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
    10. Re:Well, was it stronger than steel? by delt0r · · Score: 1

      Yea don't expect anyone to bother even reading the wiki about it. Also steel is not all that strong. There are stronger things. I always wonder why it is always "stronger than steel". Also what type of steel. Carbon steels cover a very wide range of material properties, and then there are nickel steels such as stainless steel (yea i know, still a carbon steel). And weight for weight even more things are stronger than steel such as aluminum alloys. And we haven't even got to composites.

      Yea i am being slopy with the word stronger. I mean in a given context. For example if buckling is the main failure mode then the materials stiffness is important. etc. But in any given application you do have a set of numbers than can be approximately converted into "strength".

      --
      If information wants to be free, why does my internet connection cost so much?
    11. Re:Well, was it stronger than steel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I always wonder why it is always "stronger than steel".

      Well, sometimes it's "more powerful than a locomotive" or "stronger than dirt."

    12. Re:Well, was it stronger than steel? by countach · · Score: 1

      Yes well that's another issue. Are we talking weight for weight or volume for volume?

  3. Unbreakable, eh? by vivian · · Score: 1

    I remember the day a kid came to school with an "unbreakable" mirror (some kind of foil backed clear plastic).
    He was soon proved wrong about his mirror.

    1. Re:Unbreakable, eh? by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      You guys are so mean

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    2. Re:Unbreakable, eh? by gstoddart · · Score: 1

      We prefer to think of it as scientifically curious, literally precise, and prone to debunking hyperbole.

      Apparently everyone else says that means we have some traits in common with autism.

      My wife just sticks with calling me a dork.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    3. Re:Unbreakable, eh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So, basically, an inability to understand the most trivial subtleties of human communication.

      What would you do if a 6'4" young man told you they were immortal?

    4. Re:Unbreakable, eh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Everyone else will just stick with the truth. Asshole.

    5. Re:Unbreakable, eh? by behrooz0az · · Score: 1

      I'd tell him we're the same height and then prove him very wrong?

      --
      Moderating "-1, Disagree" is simple censorship. Have the guts to post your opinion. -- Spazmania (174582)
    6. Re:Unbreakable, eh? by Locke2005 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, my "unbreakable" combs never seem to last very long either for some reason...

      --
      I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
    7. Re: Unbreakable, eh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      God this is cringey. You shouldn't talk.

    8. Re:Unbreakable, eh? by Falos · · Score: 1

      Make money, somehow.

      Throw some thought at the scenario and you don't care if someone's lying, an idiot, or telling the truth. The universe has abundant routes, with varying levels of creativity and morality.

      https://xkcd.com/670/

    9. Re:Unbreakable, eh? by David_Hart · · Score: 1

      Yeah, my "unbreakable" combs never seem to last very long either for some reason...

      They're not supposed to be used THAT way.... (grin)

    10. Re:Unbreakable, eh? by retchdog · · Score: 1

      Kill the motherfucker and chop his legs off!

      --
      "They were pure niggers." – Noam Chomsky
    11. Re:Unbreakable, eh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What would you do if a 6'4" young man told you they were immortal?

      Give them each a loaded gun, and laugh at their funerals.

    12. Re:Unbreakable, eh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So basically if someone says to you the they are immortal, you want to murder them?

      I think you need some fairly urgent help

  4. Sorry, Scotty by OakDragon · · Score: 1

    Back to that quaint computer.

    --
    Dark Reflection
  5. But but but by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I was going to use it for the windshield of my private 3D printed intergalactic colony ships! All technology always gets better at the same rate as computers!

    1. Re:But but but by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You lose fights to your own strawmen.

    2. Re:But but but by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I was going to use it for the windshield of my private 3D printed intergalactic colony ships! All technology always gets better at the same rate as computers!

      It's really just transparent aluminium...

    3. Re: But but but by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This glass would save a lot of pot heads money. I've been Breaking bowls and bongs and bubblers for decades. I need a RooR with this glass asap.

    4. Re:But but but by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      At least they exist, unlike your space fantasies.

    5. Re:But but but by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      At least [my strawmen] exist, unlike your space fantasies.

      Just because your delusions are about other people being delusional doesn't make you not delusional...

    6. Re:But but but by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Other people exist. Your space fantasies don't.

    7. Re:But but but by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My "space fantasies" ARE your strawmen. You make them up in your head and pretend they're mine. In truth, I've never said a single one of the things you constantly attribute to your beloved Space Nutters. Nor has anyone else you've ever talked to.

  6. Puffery ... by gstoddart · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Bah, pretty much any time a company says something isn't "un-anythingable" it's lying.

    Unsinkable. Unbreakable. Unbendable. Un-non-inflammable (because those of us old enough don't know what it means).

    I usually assume these claims are marketing crap, and therefore fairly meaningless.

    --
    Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    1. Re:Puffery ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You forgot the best one!

      Unlimited.

    2. Re:Puffery ... by tomhath · · Score: 1

      The scientists never claimed it was unbreakable or strong as steel. That came from journalists who wanted a better headline than "New Glass is Stronger Than Most Other Glass".

    3. Re:Puffery ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You could say it's unbelievable.

    4. Re:Puffery ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      1. Announce that this million dollar Slashdot comment is unsellable.
      2...
      3. profit

    5. Re:Puffery ... by mark-t · · Score: 1

      Notable exception: "unverified".

      --
      File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
    6. Re:Puffery ... by sexconker · · Score: 1

      Inflammable means it can be set ablaze.
      Non-inflammable means it can't (easily).

      "Flammable" and "non-flammable" are HORSESHIT with backwards and incorrect derivations that have only added confusion.

    7. Re:Puffery ... by Nyder · · Score: 1

      Bah, pretty much any time a company says something it's lying.

      FTFY

      --
      Be seeing you...
    8. Re:Puffery ... by gstoddart · · Score: 2

      Flammable" and "non-flammable" are HORSESHIT with backwards and incorrect derivations that have only added confusion.

      Oh, bullshit. When I was a kid things were flammable, and inflammable. That's what was taught in school. Then some whiny people said in deference to other languages it was less confusing if we changed to match them. Mostly it's caused confusion since.

      Backwards and incorrect derivations are the fucking mean and potatoes of English. It's all backwards and incorrect.

      We discuss Flammability as a property, not inflammability. Something is said to be aflame, and not inflamed. Moe from the Simpsons made a flaming Moe, not an inflaming Moe.

      (In)destructible, (in)secure, (in)visible, (in)controvetible, (in)sane, (in)correct, (in)capable. These are examples of why inflammable was a perfectly valid derivation which meant "doesn't burn", and was in fact in widespread use for a VERY long time.

      Don't give me crap about wrong derivations and that this word comes from this or that and is therefore conjugated thusly

      The entire rest of the grammar in English around fire, do NOT lead you to "inflammable" to mean "does burn".

      Do you know why? Because English is a horribly screwed up language, full of bizarre exceptions and corner cases, piled on top of stupid rules which only mostly work, and in some cases require some really arcane knowledge about the word.

      Flammable has been in use for a very long time. Inflammable for even longer, apparently.

      But let's not pretend that the word hasn't seen active use in society for a LONG time. It's not a few random people who are confused, it's everybody over a certain age in an English speaking country.

      You can't talk about "flammable" things and then tell me I should be saying "inflammable" means it burns; that doesn't match the rest of the English language on this.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    9. Re:Puffery ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      " mean and potatoes of English"

      Uh huh. With writing like that, I don't think you can even count to potato.

    10. Re:Puffery ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2

      (In)destructible, (in)secure, (in)visible, (in)controvetible, (in)sane, (in)correct, (in)capable. These are examples of why inflammable was a perfectly valid derivation which meant "doesn't burn", and was in fact in widespread use for a VERY long time.

      I don't mean to incriminate you, but you seem to incarnate an indoctrination that might incite people to form inquiry into seeming incandescent thoughts to only find they are not ingenious.

    11. Re:Puffery ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Notable exception: "unverified".

      Hmmm....
      * Reports of UFO abductions are unverified.
      * The link between smoking and cancer is unverified.
      * It's unverified that the earth is not flat.

    12. Re:Puffery ... by mark-t · · Score: 1

      I didn't necessarily say that any use of the term would be necessarily true, I only suggested that even in marketing speak, the term can used entirely truthfully, at least at the time of publication (it may get verified later, invalidating the claim).

      Of course, it's not really an "un-something-able" word, either.

      "Unprovable" can also sometimes be true. There are numerous things that literally cannot ever be proven.

      --
      File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
  7. "It's not lying!" by idontgno · · Score: 1

    It's not false advertising!

    It's puffery! That makes it totes legit!

    --
    Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
  8. What are the actual test results? by ITRambo · · Score: 1

    The glass cracked on an impact tester. Steel dents. According to the linked article it's just another form of strong glass, nothing special, unless they release data that supports the BS being reported about it.

    1. Re:What are the actual test results? by trout007 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The glass cracked on an impact tester. Steel dents.

      That depends on the steel. High strength steels have yield strengths very close to their ultimate strengths and tend to crack and not dent.

      --
      I love Jesus, except for his foreign policy.
    2. Re:What are the actual test results? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you didn't say i got to pick my own steel.

      here's a piece of thin old cast iron with enough carbon somewhere in there to make it
      qualify as steel...try that

    3. Re:What are the actual test results? by delt0r · · Score: 1

      cast iron has too much carbon to be a steel :P.

      --
      If information wants to be free, why does my internet connection cost so much?
  9. No, really? by wonkey_monkey · · Score: 1

    They exaggerated the strength of their glass? That's a new one.

    --
    systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
  10. Improvement over state of the art? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Is this new kind of glass cheaper to make? Is it less breakable? Easier to clean? If so, it will likely be a commercial success. If it's not...it won't.

  11. If steel glass did exist... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

    You would see on the iPhone first.

    1. Re:If steel glass did exist... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... and it would be "the best glass we have ever made".

  12. steel by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I thought they invented translucent steel like on star trek.

  13. Don't we already have transparent aluminum? by mamono · · Score: 1

    I could have sworn that Plexicorp already was in development since they got the formula almost 30 years ago.

  14. Transparent aluminum? by Locke2005 · · Score: 0

    Didn't I see that in a Star Trek movie?
    (This glass is made out of alumina, not silica. So, not really "glass" is the usual sense of the word.)

    --
    I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
  15. Claims aligned with fabrication and measurement by DavidMZ · · Score: 3, Funny

    According to TFA:

    "In this work, we report a 54Al2O3-46Ta2O5 glass fabricated by aerodynamic levitation"

    "Analysis made using 27Al Magic Angle Spinning Nuclear Magnetic Resonance (MAS NMR) spectroscopy"

    And that's just in the first paragraph! Made by levitation, tested by Magic, it can be "as strong as steel"!

  16. Look out for jet fuel. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/carmendrahl/2015/11/03/sorry-but-that-new-glass-from-japanese-researchers-isnt-unbreakable/
    Melting sand (silica) is the way to make run-of-the-mill glass. But alumina has a higher melting temperature (2,072 degrees Celsius) than silica (1,713 degrees).

    http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/jom/0112/eagar/eagar-0112.html
    The maximum flame temperature increase for burning hydrocarbons (jet fuel) in air is, thus, about 1,000C—hardly sufficient to melt steel at 1,500C.

    1. Re:Look out for jet fuel. by retchdog · · Score: 1

      beautiful concept for a troll, but the execution is still a bit copypasta. 7/10.

      --
      "They were pure niggers." – Noam Chomsky
    2. Re:Look out for jet fuel. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For the last time, moron: It didn't "melt" the steel, nor did it need to.

    3. Re:Look out for jet fuel. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For the last time, moron: It didn't "melt" the steel, nor did it need to.

      https://www.grc.nasa.gov/www/k-12/airplane/newton1a.html

      https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/25/Free-fall.gif/100px-Free-fall.gif

    4. Re:Look out for jet fuel. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Changing the subject won't mask your failure.

      The steel was weakened by the heat and lost too much of its tensile strength to support the load it bore. Nothing about Newtonian physics contradicts that, not that you actually understand what you're referencing.

      You are not a renegade bravely speaking truth to power. You did not take the red pill. You are not frightening the sheeple with your awesome critical thinking.

      And you know it.

      You will now make my point for me.

    5. Re:Look out for jet fuel. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Did they get hit at the top or the bottom.

      Also, stop pretending you're smart.

  17. Star Trek by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sounds like the crew are on the ground giving out futuristic secrets.