Slashdot Mirror


Controversial Company Offers a New Way To Make a Baby (sciencemag.org)

sciencehabit writes: A controversial fertility company called OvaScience is preoccupied by an enduring mystery in human biology--why eggs fail--and the palpable hope that we can do something about it. The company offers a new treatment, called AUGMENT, based on what it considers to be egg precursor cells found in a woman's ovaries. AUGMENT, which costs UP TO $25,000, along with thousands more in clinic fees and roughly $25,000 for the IVF cycle that must accompany it, relies on mitochondria from putative egg precursor cells to boost the success of in vitro fertilization (IVF). Seventeen babies have been born so far. The company, which has attracted hundreds of millions of dollars from investors, is poised to introduce a second treatment. But many scientists doubt that egg precursor cells actually exist.

80 comments

  1. Just what we need to do... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    take people who can't produce viable reproductive cells, and help them pass on their genes. What could possibly go wrong?

    1. Re:Just what we need to do... by Opportunist · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Hush! Why do you want more fertile people, this planet is overpopulated as it is!

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    2. Re:Just what we need to do... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      This discussion should end right here. It will not of course.

    3. Re:Just what we need to do... by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 4, Insightful

      In the places where people can afford a procedure like this, there is no overpopulation problem. Every couple deserves a fair shot at parenthood.

    4. Re:Just what we need to do... by Opportunist · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Who is going to pay for the fair shot of those that can't throw 50 grand at it?

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    5. Re:Just what we need to do... by amiga3D · · Score: 1

      The government of course. Who else?

    6. Re:Just what we need to do... by hey! · · Score: 1

      That's like worrying about whales pissing in the ocean.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    7. Re:Just what we need to do... by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 1

      Whether someone else should pay for a procedure like this is a totally different question.

    8. Re:Just what we need to do... by roman_mir · · Score: 3, Interesting

      First of all your original question is nonsense, the planet is in no way 'overpopulated', you are showing your dictatorial attitudes there. Secondly being able to buy something with a stack of cash is the most fair and democratic way to distribute resources (and services) as long as the system is a free market capitalism (which is hard to find nowadays). You get your free fair shot at the end of each intercourse. If you don't have somebody to do that with, who is supposed to provide you with a fair shot at it? Should I omen be compelled by the force of the government to let you have a go, so that you may attempt to duplicate your genetic material? Well, given that the usa and some other governments have been overtaken by feminists, which led to the welfare state, I doubt you could achieve that sort of 'fairness'.

    9. Re:Just what we need to do... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The government of course. Who else?

      Here's the cost breakdown:

      For an 'Illegal' immigrant with no demonstrable income source: FREE
      For documented citizens with paying jobs: $25,000 plus $10,000 in prescriptions (3 pills).

      DISCLAIMER: I am posting as AC because I am an 'illegal' immigrant and I want to get pregnant.

    10. Re:Just what we need to do... by unixisc · · Score: 2

      Hush! Why do you want more fertile people, this planet is overpopulated as it is!

      Even China, which until last week, had a one child policy, now has relaxed that to two. Reason is that they think they have a shortage of people - despite it being well above a billion. Should say something.

      A good solution to the population problem could be exchange of populations. If Russia and India swapped populations, the density would be pretty even. You could fit India's entire population comfortably in Siberia, and send all Russians into India. One would then realize whether the world is over-populated or not

    11. Re:Just what we need to do... by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      China's problem was one of demographics. Not so much the total number of people, but the age distribution. If you have a large preponderance of old people, all you get is email.

      Not so good for the 21st Century.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    12. Re:Just what we need to do... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      equal opportunity != equal outcome

      don't be stupid - couples get a fair shot at it by virtue of it being available to anyone who can pay

      fair does not mean the outcome must be the same for everyone - only that they've a chance to succeed

      if they can't come up with $50,000 then maybe they don't need a kid as it is

    13. Re:Just what we need to do... by davester666 · · Score: 1

      Not until we get to 9 women and 1 month.

      --
      Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
    14. Re: Just what we need to do... by WebCowboy · · Score: 3, Informative

      China did not eliminate its one child policy because it wanted more population growth. It has in fact been relaxing it for years and did away with it entirely because of the social problems it causes:

      * in traditional Chinese culture male offspring are highly valued and when allowed only one child many couples abort female fetuses. In rare but all too numerous cases newborn girls have even been killed just after birth. The result is that there are 10s of millions more men in China than women now. The one child policy has been relaxed for years to allow women to have a second child if their first was female to help balance the population. This has virtually eliminated infanticide but has been slow in re balancing population.

      * measures to enforce one child policy have been very cruel, such as the common policy of denying anaesthetic to women in labour with their second child and clawback of social assistance and forced sterilisation of women without consent immediately after the birth of a child.

      * the significantly greater number of young men to young women has been attributed to problems with sex crimes from human trafficking to gang rapes, though much of the evidence is anecdotal

      * there are now a couple of generations of people in China raised as only children. These children have been doted upon and spoiled rotten by parents and grandparents all their lives, turning many of them into entitled "little emperors". The lack of empathy towards others and lack of respect towards elders has been unsettling to older Chinese where those traits are very important in traditional culture. It has led to institutionalisation of seniors that was almost unheard of as well as exploitation of workers and in extreme, occasional cases, incidents such as people ignoring a toddler run over by a car dying in the street while everyone goes on about their business.

      Anyways population is self limiting as societies develop and direct population control has been shown to backfire. Allowing those with the means and desire to have fertility treatments to conceive is probably a net benefit to society on the whole when properly regulated. At least these parents really want to be parents and have the means and the drive to be good parents.

    15. Re:Just what we need to do... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A government with quickly declining population, like Japan, could find it in their best interest to pay a few bucks and help guarantee the future of their race. Other than that, either you pay or you don't get it. Same goes for anything else. You want new pants, car or private island? Pay, or it won't be yours. If you're not willing to cough the cash you want the cash more than the procedure.

    16. Re:Just what we need to do... by arglebargle_xiv · · Score: 3, Funny

      I am posting as AC because I am an 'illegal' immigrant and I want to get pregnant.

      Send photos, vital stats, and recent health certificate, some of us may be able to help you out there...

    17. Re:Just what we need to do... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      if they can't come up with $50,000 then maybe they don't need a kid as it is

      This is it. 50 grand sounds ridiculously large when compared to the $0 most parents spend to birth one child. After that though, your wallet opens up and the money starts gushing. Two working parents are going to spend 50 grand on daycare ALONE by the time their kid is ready for kindergarden. And if that figure shocks at all, think of the cost of a parent staying home and not working (which is triple that for an average college educated person). So that's $150,000 in economic benefit lost, so one kid can learn how to talk and maybe read a little.

    18. Re:Just what we need to do... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Birth defects for one thing as well as increasing the likelihood of multiple births.

      I could cite anecdotes in my own family but I'm sure there is data to support this if one were to look for it.

      But going by the anecdotes I could relate, the children are happy to be alive and their parents are happy to have children - and IMO reasonably good parents.

      Even though I don't really approve of the methods they employed - not because I thought they were 'playing god' or anything but for the problems their children have experienced I kept my mouth shut about it. I would never have convinced them and it would only have created a rift in our family.

      We'd do better as a society to solve birth defects and pregnancy complications through research and better medicine than by cutting off potential treatments for couples having trouble conceiving, although I recognize that's just like my opinion, man.

    19. Re:Just what we need to do... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      DISCLAIMER: I am posting as AC because I am an 'illegal' immigrant and I want to get pregnant.

      Clearly bullshit. Only woman can get pregnant and NO women ever visit slashdot.

    20. Re:Just what we need to do... by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Japan's decline in population has social reasons, not medical ones. Can't cure a disease by treating the symptoms.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    21. Re:Just what we need to do... by Spugglefink · · Score: 1

      That's like worrying about whales pissing in the ocean.

      Now I will never be able to enjoy drinking ocean water, you insensitive clod!

    22. Re: Just what we need to do... by cthulhu11 · · Score: 1

      Overpopulation is a global problem. Shit, even California where there are tens of thousands who can afford.

    23. Re:Just what we need to do... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Who is going to pay for the fair shot of those that can't throw 50 grand at it?

      Nobody. If someone hasn't done enough for society that they can afford the $50,000 required why should society take on the risk of genes not even capable of reproducing on their own being disseminated into the gene pool?

    24. Re:Just what we need to do... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In the places where people can afford a procedure like this, there is no overpopulation problem. Every couple deserves a fair shot at parenthood.

      Everyone gets a fair shot. Once you go beyond what nature does, you've starting rigging the system.

    25. Re:Just what we need to do... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Until the people from India realized that Siberia is an inhospitable frozen desert that cannot support more than a small fraction of the population of India.
      Overpopulation is not dependent only on space. You also have to factor in resources provide by that land and the ability to grow food on that land.
      Just because a barren wasteland exists does not mean we don't have a population problem.

  2. Umm... what part don't I get here? by Opportunist · · Score: 0

    It's disputed that it works, but 17 babies have been created by this procedure so far. So, does it work or doesn't it?

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    1. Re:Umm... what part don't I get here? by drinkypoo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's disputed that it works, but 17 babies have been created by this procedure so far.

      No. 17 babies have been created by IVF. Whether it would have worked without AUGMENT is at debate.

      So, does it work or doesn't it?

      Yes, that's the question

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    2. Re:Umm... what part don't I get here? by wonkey_monkey · · Score: 2

      It's disputed that it works, but 17 babies have been created by this procedure so far. So, does it work or doesn't it?

      That's exactly the question. The procedure consists of IVF plus "mitochondria from putative egg precursor cells." We know IVF works, but do the mitochondria help?

      --
      systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
    3. Re:Umm... what part don't I get here? by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Ah, so the IVF isn't in doubt, it's whether the stuff they do before is actually doing anything or doubles as some ritual dance. Gotcha, thanks.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  3. The burning question by Dunbal · · Score: 1

    The real question is though, will those 17 be Jedi?

    --
    Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    1. Re:The burning question by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      I'm not a star wars fan, but I think that's MIDICHORIONS or something similar which you're confusing with MITOCHONDRIA (which are real things in our universe, and certainly do affect general fitness post-partum, and probably also affect fitness pre-partum.

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
  4. This baby... by Z80a · · Score: 0

    I never asked for this.

    1. Re:This baby... by atomlib · · Score: 1

      What a shame.

  5. Help Existing Kids by lazarus · · Score: 1, Offtopic

    Or, you know, you could spend that money helping out children who already exist and who could really use some support. Why do humans feel the need to 'own' everything, even other life forms that have free will of their own?

    --
    I am not interested in articles about life extension advancements.
    1. Re:Help Existing Kids by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or, you know, you could spend that money helping out children who already exist and who could really use some support. Why do humans feel the need to 'own' everything, even other life forms that have free will of their own?

      For the same reason people who own three two-ton carbon-spewing cars, who run electronic devices 24x7, and keep their oh-so-nice 3500 sq ft suburban home at 68F in the summer think "we need to do something" about climate change.

      Or those who rail about the NSA and "warrantless wiretaps" and the pervasive loss of privacy to the government but who want to give the feds even more money and resources and also want to put the feds in charge of all health care (talk about giving up private data...)

      It makes them feel good about themselves.

      Of course, it's about as useful and as shallow as an August parking lot puddle in a dilapidated Florida strip mall because their own actions and beliefs contribute to what they claim to not like...

    2. Re:Help Existing Kids by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      From evolutionary standpoint, helping other people's kids before making / taking care of your own is a standpoint that gets quickly eliminated.

    3. Re:Help Existing Kids by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe because I'm not responsible for the mistakes / bad decisions of others? I don't care if there are 10^X orphans in the world at the moment. When it comes to children, I want my own. I suspect many women share the same view.

    4. Re:Help Existing Kids by Smigh · · Score: 1

      That is a very controversial topic; the variables that impact evolution are usually too complex to extract simple conclusions like those. Some defend that the group's survival may trump that more simplistic view, and that men in the small hunter-gatherer groups from which our species originated didn't really distinguish between "their" babies and other's; they were just babies of the group. It's argued that the idea that a baby would have only one male parent wasn't prevalent as well, which might have come more from domesticating cattle later on. Still today it's common in many tribes to believe in portable paternity. It's also argued that men's competition didn't happen quite as much on the "outside", but more on the inside of the womb. Again, it's hard to make a sweeping generalization like that.

    5. Re:Help Existing Kids by Smigh · · Score: 1

      I meant partible paternity, btw. Proof-reading FTW!

    6. Re:Help Existing Kids by amiga3D · · Score: 0

      Nice rant. Very eloquent.

    7. Re:Help Existing Kids by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "It's not my job" the phrase that made America great!

    8. Re:Help Existing Kids by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Whatever implications that may have, I think you're still missing my point (I was the AC above). It's *not* my job to worry about those children. *My* job is to worry about my own children. I'm not saying I don't wish them well, or that the government shouldn't find a way to provide support, somehow. I'm well aware that not every baby is born into a loving, financially stable home with two committed parents,.

    9. Re:Help Existing Kids by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      there were a few native american tribes where children were 'communal property,' so to speak. women slept with whoever they felt like fucking and the offspring was cared for by the community and even nursed at any available teat. the creole and inuit are two that are known about and, at least those of the inuit, were specific subsets within the larger tribe - like a village within a state, not all tribes were monolithic but often encompassed large areas and had multiple smaller groups as part of the whole. not sure but the cree may have done so on a large scale or with greater ubiquity.

    10. Re: Help Existing Kids by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We've evolved to find cuckoldry extremely unpleasant for a reason.

  6. Even better. Give the kids to responsible parents. by trout007 · · Score: 0

    I don't see the logic behind rewarding irresponsible people when they irresponsibly have children and expecting the kids to somehow turn out responsible. If someone is temporarily poor that's one thing. But if you are a single mom without a job and no prospect of ever having work or a husband the right thing to do if you can't afford the child is to give it up for adoption so it can be raised by responsible people. That way nobody has kids they can't afford just to get a bigger check and those that are infertile but responsible can easily get kids.

    --
    I love Jesus, except for his foreign policy.
  7. It's a shame by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    these wealthy people don't just adopt.

    1. Re:It's a shame by PsychoSlashDot · · Score: 1

      these wealthy people don't just adopt.

      You don't understand; the wealthy people want to try to pass on the wealthy gene.

      --
      "Oh no... he found the .sig setting."
  8. Feel sorry for the baby by AndyKron · · Score: 0

    Anybody willing to spend that much to have a baby probably shouldn't be having babies.

    1. Re:Feel sorry for the baby by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think that's a very narrow-minded view, when many parents would claim to give their own life for their child. If you want to put a monetary value on that, assuming a 4 years bachelors degree, it would be well over $1,000,000 in lifetime earnings.

      I know that if I were in the situation where this was the only option I hadn't tried, AND I had the money, it wouldn't require a second though.

    2. Re:Feel sorry for the baby by amiga3D · · Score: 2

      The thing about babies is that when they arrive they change everything in your life. Some for the better and some worse. Generally they mostly change your attitude about life for most people. There are some sad exceptions though.

    3. Re:Feel sorry for the baby by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think that's a very narrow-minded view, when many parents would claim to give their own life for their child.

      Actually, I think it's the opposite. It's a very narrow-minded view to believe that having a biology child is so important to waste so much money. There are already plenty of extant children which would be better served than to go off and spend so many resources to produce more.

      I know that if I were in the situation where this was the only option I hadn't tried, AND I had the money, it wouldn't require a second though.

      And think of how that money could be better spent on starving children in Africa, India, at home. Hell, speaking of "at home", the most prominent type of child abuse by far (I've heard estimates at ~90%) is neglect. It really goes counter to the whole "give their own life for their child" except in that "well, once they're out of the womb they can fend for themselves mostly, in which case I'll jump in and save them". But that makes for children who have shitty lives, mostly. You'd do more to be a big brother, friend, etc to those children than to work to have your own.

      tl;dr? Being biologically driven to have a baby you won't necessarily be a good parent to is much more narrow-minded (or even instinctual and not minded at all) than the many other options available. And no, I don't think the "but it gives one more option" really justifies the idea that it's less narrow-minded as clearly it seeks to undo all other options.

    4. Re:Feel sorry for the baby by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Honestly, I think you should have to PAY to be allowed any more than one baby.

      I'm going to be the first to attack the stupid "oooo, Earth is over-populamateeed!", which is provably wrong and the only reason their is poverty is a corrupt society and mismanagement problem, not a biosphere-capability problem.
      This planet can feed well over 15 billion people with ease using efficient farming methods over large animals and traditional ground farming.
      The biggest issue is fancy food and junk food, both ends of the spectrum where people will only eat the best of the best and others that buy shit food that is only slowly killing them.

      Being able to afford to have a 2nd child would solve so many problems in society as it is, though.
      Not just for society overall, but the people HAVING the kids. So many people have kids without actual thought behind it and it leads to them having a large chunk of their finances being taken out to support them directly and indirectly.
      Things are only going to get worse with regards to the financial world as it is due to the horrible mismanagement of resources and corrupt trading deals that leave entire countries in permanent poverty.
      Having a kid with no foresight is just a stupid thing in every sense of the word.
      But having a kid when you quite plainly cannot support it is an even worse thing, and should be a crime outright because it ends up leading to neglect, crime, suicide or kids being put in the adoption system, which is just hellish in most places because they are usually underfunded and those kids have mostly suffered horribly before they ended up there, so leads to even more corruption of kids.

      So having to prove you can support a child should be an actual law. No "oh it's fine, I will get a loan", NOPE, save up damn it. Make a Timmy fund. No excessive luxurious spends, save up if you want the kid.
      What's that? You live in a place you can barely afford? MOVE. Hell, sell the damn house and buy/build a van-home, they aren't that expensive and you can make them damn comfortable very easily. I've seen van-homes better than actual houses at a fraction of the price. Bonus points if you go custom caravan or even truck home.
      Stop wasting money on junk food as well. It is NOT cheaper. Advertising just makes you think it is cheaper.
      Buying food in bulk is considerably cheaper than buying single units of prepared meals. You can usually make at least 2-2.5 times the number of meals for the same money with a large number of bulk purchases.
      Say no to the junk food industry. Say no to ready-meals.
      There you go, you will be celebrating the birth of Timmy in no time.

      Support 2nd baby licence today! (you won't. You suck)

    5. Re:Feel sorry for the baby by Dog-Cow · · Score: 1

      Perhaps people in Africa who don't have any wealth shouldn't be creating children. People who can afford treatments can also afford to raise children. So you're the idiot.

    6. Re:Feel sorry for the baby by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Saith the man unlikely to ever have opportunity to procreate.

    7. Re:Feel sorry for the baby by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Perhaps people in Africa who don't have any wealth shouldn't be creating children.

      Great bit of projecting there. I was talking about North America, Europe, etc as much as any place.

      People who can afford treatments can also afford to raise children.

      And that is, by far, the biggest point of it. You speak as if wealth is the core of raising children. No, it's devotion of parents to parent. That takes time and actual involvement in the child's life. To seek wealth does much to keep children physical provided for but leaves them very emotional and developmentally empty. This isn't even remotely a new phenomenon, with wet nurses, nannies, governesses, etc. There's a long history of children who seek the most basic of things, the involvement and love of a parent. What they get instead is a lesson that duty to one's job is more important and that children are but a society obligated accessory.

      So you're the idiot.

      Oh, if only your parents could have afford the most precious of things, time, to you instead of leaving you to the delusions that other things, like money, are somehow equivalent.

  9. Invisible snake oil by frnic · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The perfect scam, we take your egg, perform some woogie that you can't see or verify, but trust us, it works.

    1. Re:Invisible snake oil by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I doubt that fertility treatments dealing with individual cells qualify as "snake oil."

    2. Re:Invisible snake oil by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      No, it's more like 'we take your egg, perform some woogie that you can't see or verify' and charge you a shitload for it.

      That's even better.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    3. Re:Invisible snake oil by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Look, this is placebo effect. It is well known that an expensive placebo works much better than a cheap one...

      The power of the mind is amazing. Placebo effect not a "scam" or "snake oil." It works and it can save lives, however counterintuitive this may sound. Read about it and be enlightened...

  10. People go to a lot of effort for the opposite! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just think of all the couples that DON'T want a pregnancy and go through a lot of effort to have sex WITHOUT getting pregnant and then occasionally one swimmer breaks through and fertilizes the egg anyway. It's like some people are ultra fertile while some people, for whatever reason, just are not fertile.

    I know this enters in to the field of Eugenics, but is it good for the species as a whole to artificially create an embryo where the eggs and/or sperm are pre-disposed to non-fertility? Isn't non-viability just nature's way of excluding non-fertility traits from the gene pool?

  11. Precursors by penguinoid · · Score: 0

    The mystery of the powerful and mysterious race of Precursors has finally been resolved.

    --
    Don't waste your vote! Vote for whoever you want, unless you live in a swing state it won't matter anyways
    1. Re:Precursors by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      AUGMENT is an artifact of Precursor technology.

      But many scientists doubt that egg precursor cells actually exist.

      These scientists doubt the existence of STEM cells, the units of organization of a medieval order striving to control the chaos of free education.

  12. Missionary Position by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The old fashioned way seems to be maintaining the world population rates thus far.

    What's the cost?
    As someone whose family benefited from IVF coverage, and chose to live in a state that mandated its coverage, I'm perhaps a hypocrite. But I admit I wondered about the ethics of raising everyone's insurance base by paying for something that wasn't a health necessity. The fair thing would be to either also offer insurance payment for adoption, or leave these procedures to be paid for by themselves.

  13. Star Trek by Sir+Foxx · · Score: 1

    I'm pretty sure this is how get Khan. The badass one from the original series.

    --
    "I don't which is worse, that everyone has a price, or that the price is always so low"--Hobbes
    1. Re:Star Trek by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh, no, that was done just recently.

      A company in the UK engineered a kids cells using gene therapy for the first time in humans to actively fight against leukaemia.
      If it is successful, it will pave the way for gene therapy in humans, as well as a possible first in fighting cancer the way they did it.

      The biohacking age is now.
      Here comes eugenics wars 2.0.

      .

  14. So expensive in the US... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It certainly doesn't cost that much for IVF in Canada. Seriously you guys, fix your health care already.

    1. Re:So expensive in the US... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Obama forced a fix onto us but it only made healthcare MORE expensive and complicated. :-(

  15. Re:Imagine a world where Hitler was Real by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hitler was very much pro-Muslim. He met Sheikh Haj Amin al-Husseini and promised him support for an opposition to the creation of Israel. In return, al-Husseini helped him recruit Bosnian Muslims to join the Waffen-SS, and they were among the Nazi troops who persecuted Jews and Serbs within Yugoslavia.

  16. We don't need more ways to make more humans! by kheldan · · Score: 1

    We have too many humans on this planet already, we don't need more ways to make more humans! You want to raise a child? Go adopt one, there are plenty of children out there without families to take care of them, and you'll be doing human civilization in general several favors in the process, not the least of which is ensuring that one or more human children have a better chance of growing up to be well-adjusted and successful members of society, instead of being all screwed up because they bounced back and forth between foster homes.

    --
    Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
    1. Re:We don't need more ways to make more humans! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Adopt and inferior human pup? Never!

    2. Re:We don't need more ways to make more humans! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We have too many humans on this planet already, we don't need more ways to make more humans!

      There are too many humans in parts of the planet. The rest of us are doing just fine.

      You want to raise a child? Go adopt one.

      Very few people want to raise a child. Most want to raise their child, someone who looks like them.

    3. Re:We don't need more ways to make more humans! by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Most want to raise their child, someone who looks like them.

      Yeah, and I want to walk around shooting everyone I don't like in the face,* but we can't all get what we want if we want society to work.

      * Not really. That would be messy.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  17. Life begins at precursor cell! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Isn't that going to be the immediate response of the anti-choice crowd?

  18. Re:Imagine a world where Hitler was Real by ebvwfbw · · Score: 1

    That's like saying he was pro-Russian. He was a psychopath. He would use anyone to further his objective. Then when they were not useful anymore and not in his plan - they'd be killed just like he turned on the Russians.

    The enemy of your enemy may still be your enemy as well. Use your brain. Don't get lazy. If you don't, it can often get you killed.

  19. The old way by ebvwfbw · · Score: 1

    Just use the good old traditional way. Have sex up to 3 times a day, repeat until she's pregnant.

    It's a lot of work, I know.

    1. Re:The old way by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      You forgot the bit about doing this before you choose to be sterilised.

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
  20. well, it's a good test. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    if you can afford the procedure, you're probably better able to afford to raise the child.